itchy rashes coming in 5th week

[nainiu]

Now I'm developing painful salivary glands. GP simply gave me some antibiotic medicine. Somewhere it is said a symptom of HIV oral development as well. I feel I ruined up my life. I start to distrust him. I wen to him for a cure of white scrap in my mouth, but came with salivary glands......

[Ann]

nainiu,

As you were told in your thread in the old forum, symptoms or the lack of symptoms mean nothing when it comes to hiv infection.

You have a six week negative hiv result and that is not likely to change. Whatever is going on with you has nothing to do with hiv.

Ann

[Andy Velez]

I'm not sure if you are unhappy with your doctor or your sex partner. Or both. If it's your doctor, go to someone else whom you feel better about.

You can keep piling on the symptoms if you must. It's not going to change what you have been repeatedly told. Nothing you are reporting is suggestive of HIV.

Are you taking in what is being said to you or are you just listening to those tapes running around in your head?

[nainiu]

Dear Ann and everybody,

I got a 9.5-weeks neg for HIV-1 and-2, but still anxious. My skin and lymphs in neck have problem, as well as the white removable stuff in my mouth. Is there undetectable HIV antibody? Is it possible if my immune system is very weak, it takes longer time to show up the HIV antibody??

Thanks,

[RapidRod]

There are not any undetectable antibodies. If you had a weaken immune system you wouldn't be sitting typing on your computer.

[nainiu]

Hey Rod,

What you said is questionable. When some HIV poz people's CD4<300, they still feel pretty well. The ability of sitting before the computer can not be the evidence for a sound immune system I guess.

[RapidRod]

Let me tell you when it drops below three hundred. I'ts hell to do anything, except worry.

[jkinatl2]

My T cells havent touched two hundred in over two years. They've been under a hundred for a year and a half, I think. Tonight I helped my best Atlanta friend move into his new house, with all the heavy lifting and crazy yelling that comes with that. I will be sore and tired tomorrow, but nothing seventeen hours' of sleep won't take care of. And some of that stinky rub.

Thing is, you absolutely cannot guage your HIV status by how you are feeling. Even people with AIDS sometimes go hiking, or camping, or walk ten miles to raise money, or jump out of airplanes. Some of us are semi-pro bodybuilders, some of us work full time, some of us are parents of young children, all with less than two hundred T cells.

The level of immune impairment necessary for us to test negative on an ELISA test is extraordinary. It's death-bed level, and even then, it does not happen very often.  It's truly not a phenomenon you are going to see outside a hospice, or a hospital... or someone who is one doorknob, one sneeze away from one or the other. The human body produces antibodies to HIV throughout the life of the infected person, usually right until the moment of death.

I have been here for three years, I think. Ann has been here for a few more years than I. And neither of us has EVER seen someone test negative at 6 weeks, then test positive at 13. Never. This also goes for my years as an HIV counselor in the mid to late 1990s, before three or four upgrades to the ELISA testing procedure and refinment of the test.

I do not for a moment think you will end up positive. If I did, I would tell you. One thing I am, is honest.

[nainiu]

  I'm so moved by your explanation. fear makes me unreasonable sometimes. I'll carefully spend my time from now on. Thank you very much!

[nainiu]

I got 3rd generaltion elisa neg result, but i still wonder if it is conclusive. The symptoms, especially the white stuff I find every morning from my inner cheek, persist. I went to see dentist, who couldn't figure out what that is. I also went to see a doctor to check my neck lymphs, but she couldn't give me any advice why there is a gland on the right side. Also, I feel pain in head, neck, teeth when I open my mouth around the right ear.

Does anyone know the rate of HIV-1 clade O and N among the infected people in most African countries? I don't know what I can do to finally get rid off the worry and fear, and start to prepare having a baby?

[Andy Velez]

I've just re-read this thread as well as your original one and the many exchanges in each. It's clear to me that it doesn't matter how many replies you receive nor how much information that you are still stuck in the mindset of HIV jitters.

The average time to seroconversion is 22 days. All but the very smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure to HIV. (And of course you don't even know for sure that the person you were with was HIV+.)

Instead you continue to focus on symptoms which are in no way HIV-specific even though you have been told that neither the presence nor the absence of symptoms is ever the way to accurately know about your HIV status. And certainly there is nothing even remotely suggestive of HIV in what you are reporting at this point. Just because thus far you have been unable to get a satisfactory explanation for your symptoms does not by default invalidate the accuracy of your negative test result. At this point I expect you  will continue to test negative when you re-test at 13 weeks.

If your symptoms persist you should get a second opinion on what's going on as far as your symptoms are concerned.

Additionally, you might find it helpful to talk with a mental health professional to get some support with the emotional aspects of your situation.

Getting into % reports about the different clades is only feeding what all too easily becomes an obsession and a dead end that leads to nowhere good.

Just because your mind keeps coming up with more things to worry and more SIGNS that feed your fears, well those aren't facts. A negative test result at 9 weeks is a fact. A very encouraging one at that. Your mind may continue to churn out more scary thoughts. I suggest you notice them, take a breath and let 'em go. No kidding. When you choose to do that other thoughts and feellings will follow and not all of them will be more of this HIV jitters stuff. That's how we are wired. 

Lastly, you maybe delighted about the thought of having a baby. However, often feelings about that are mixed and I can't help wondering if somewhere in all of this you have some thoughts and feelings about that possibility and perhaps even other elements in your life which are not being addressed while you instead stay stuck on HIV.

I expect you to come out of this OK as far as HIV is concerned. Then you will be stuck with having to get on with your life.

[nainiu]

Thanks Andy for your reply, and also  your concerns for my psychy.

The good news: I went to test again and got neg. I can't doubt more. So I turned to my husband and said: I give up testing. He laughed. Will be still on guard though.

As for the question I asked here, I also asked US CDC, and they gave me the following answer. I paste it here in case someone might need the same information, especially confusing with the infection rate HIV type and clade.

                             ----------------------- - - - - - -- - - - -  -------------------------------------
 
Thank you for your inquiry to CDC-INFO.  In response to your request for information on group O and N HIV infections, we are pleased to provide you with the following relevant information.

Following the first identified case of group O HIV-1 infection in the United States in 1996, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) mandated that newer versions of HIV EIA/ELISA test kits demonstrate the ability to reliably detect the majority of HIV infections caused by group O viruses.  Tests currently in use, including both EIA/ELISA platform and rapid test platforms, reliably detect the majority (at least 80%) of HIV-1 infections caused by group O viruses.  Some of the newest assays have demonstrated 100% sensitivity to Group O HIV-1 viruses, although the overall rarity of infections caused by Group O viruses and the extreme rarity in the United States makes this of minimal practical importance.  Detailed information on HIV antibody test kit performance is available from the FDA at:http://www.fda.gov or by phone at: 1-888-INFO-FDA (1-888-463-6332)

It may be important to be clear about the terminology used in discussing HIV.  HIV-1 and HIV-2 are completely separate types of the HIV virus that are distantly related.  HIV-1 viruses are broken out into three different groups, M (major) which accounts for the vast majority of cases in the worldwide epidemic of HIV, O (other or outlier) which is restricted to western Africa and even there is not the majority group of HIV-1, and N (non-M, non-O) has been isolated only in Cameroon.

Group M is further broken down into subtypes known as "clades" that are lettered A, B, C, D, F, G, H, J and K.  The former clade E has been reclassified as a recombinant form of clade A and a parent clade E.  However, no pure clade E sample has ever been found, and the clade formerly called E is more appropriately referred to as AE.  The former clade I, represented by one isolate, has since been determined to be a recombinant form of A, G, H, K, and other unclassified clades.  The designation clade I is no longer in use.  HIV-1, group M, clade B accounts for the vast majority of HIV infections in the United States, while other clades are more common in other geographical areas of the world.  However, the current HIV antibody detection kits reliably detect HIV infections caused by clades other than B.

PCR testing for the identification and quantification of HIV RNA is not FDA-approved as a screening test.  HIV RNA quantification is only licensed for use in persons known to be infected with HIV and these tests are used to monitor disease progression and response to therapy.  Due to the rapid decline of circulating HIV RNA shortly after infection, PCR tests for HIV RNA have a high rate of false negative results in persons who are in the early course of HIV infection.  HIV RNA rapidly diminishes in less than a month after infection making a reliance on HIV RNA detection for diagnosis inappropriate and potentially dangerous in that a person who mistakenly believes that the absence of HIV RNA detection by PCR means that they are not infected when they in fact are may not take appropriate measures to prevent the transmission of HIV to others and may not seek appropriate and necessary care for themselves until they have progressed to significant clinical illness.

In addition, if a person is concerned about being infected with a non-Group M, clade B HIV-1 virus, HIV RNA detection by PCR is an even poorer choice of a diagnostic test because the primers used in the RNA amplification and detection process are specific to Group M, clade B because those are the characteristics of the overwhelming majority of HIV-1 infections in the United States.

Seroprevalence studies conducted in west Africa indicate that the prevalence of Group O HIV-1 infections is very low, 0.3% of all HIV-1 infected persons.  The highest number of Group O isolates were from Cameroon, although Group O infections have been identified in Nigeria as well as in Chad, Gabon, Niger, Senegal, and Togo.  The prevalence of HIV-1 Group O in Nigeria is less than 0.1%.  See the following for additional information: Survey on HIV-1 group O infection in 12 different African countries.
Peeters M; Mboup S; Gueye A; Liegeois F; Patrel D; Vanden Haesevelde M; Delaporte E. International Conference on AIDS, 1996 Jul 7-12, 11:1, 14 (abstract no. Mo.A.510)

Group N isolates are represented by less than 10 isolates found among very large blood survey samplings of tens of thousands of volunteers, all of which have been found in Cameroon.  This number of isolates represents an infinitesimally small number of the total number of HIV infections in Cameroon much less in all of Africa.  Group N prevalence in Nigeria is currently 0%.

Due to the extreme rarity of Group O and Group N infections in western Africa and the even greater rarity of these Groups of HIV-1 in the rest of the world, there are no commercially available test kits specific to these Groups.  Testing for these Groups is restricted to large scale research and sero-prevalence studies.   In those exceptional situations in which an individual presents with a clinical picture suggestive of AIDS who also has either origins in western Africa, has lived in the region for long periods of time, or has other clinically relevant risk factors, may be tested by Group O and/or N specific tests if they repeatedly test negative for HIV on standard screening tests.  Specific testing for Groups O and N are not available to persons who do not fall into these categories.

You may wish to repeat your HIV test up to 6 months following your last possible exposure.  Repeated testing past 6 months post-exposure is not recommended and persons who test negative up to 6 months post exposure are considered to be uninfected.

Thank you for contacting the CDC-INFO Contact Center.  Please do not hesitate to call 1-800-CDC-INFO, e-mail cdcinfo@cdc.gov, or visit www.cdc.gov if you have any additional questions.

CDC-INFO is a service of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). This service is provided by Pearson Government Solutions under contract to CDC.

MS
ad

[THREAD ID:1-FNCO4]