re: personals, personals people, etc.

[poet]

Ok, I admit that I can be naive or even very, very naive, but I am lost on this.  I live in MA.  I received a message through the personals section from someone in CA.  I politely replied in a general way.  Then nothing.  Then a reply from the person in CA sounding as though he had never received my reply to him.  I replied, giving him my direct email address.  He sent me an email, a little over a week ago to which I sent three emails.  The first, my initial reply to his.  The second, expanding a bit.  The third, a day later, a 'test' to see if his email address was working.  I thought, a week later, to see if he has used his personals access and, as of this morning, he had been there yesterday.  What exactly is going on?  The easy answer is to start at the beginning and say, 'well, given that you live in MA and he lives in CA, where would this be going anyway?'  But I am one of those people, as some of you are getting to know, who really wants to know what is going on inside his head.  Win

[Gary85741]

     I've had this general kind of weird stuff happen a lot over the years.  I don't initiate contact much, but with those I have, or those by whom I've been contacted, some don't reply, or some don't reply further after a few email exchanges.  In any case, I don't email someone again until if and when I've heard back from them.  That keeps it balanced.
     It would be nice if people could have the courtesy to take one minute to reply that they are no longer interested, but that doesn't seem to be very common.

     Recently, I had been exchanging emails with someone out-of-area for about three months.  He wanted to meet me at some point.  I offered my phone number twice.  He said yes, he'd call soon "when he had time."  He never called, but a month later said it would be nice to talk on the phone.  I again provided my number, but never got a call.
     I did mention that it seemed to me the natural flow of things would be to talk on the phone instead of just emails, before ever meeting.  He didn't respond to my comment, so I just went along with the emails after that, already dismissing any potential in my mind of it going further.  Several weeks ago he never replied to my latest email, so finally I've got that whole thing off my back.
     It was also interesting to me that through all these emails, he barely ever asked me any questions.  Basically he just talked about himself and what he was doing, to the point sometimes that I couldn't even tell if he received my latest reply or not. 

     I regularly listen to Dr. Joy Browne's podcasts.  She's an on-air psychologist who takes listeners' calls and gives good advice.  She has commented several times on the disadvantages of long-distance internet interactions. 
     She doesn't think much of them!  She states that they usually are built on fantasy (since you're only reading and typing,) and further, that the pay-off always seems to be down the road, involving waiting and waiting and waiting.  Overall I think she's right.

     Yet, for some of us, this has to be an option.  We're a subset of a subset, eg., gay, HIV+, and for some like me, yet another subset--symptomatic.  That seems as big a demarcation (symptomatic v. asymptomatic) as HIV+/HIV-.  Some guys don't understand that I can't go-go-go every minute, and/or don't have the energy to hike all over the place, or do sustained physical activity.  Oh well, that's a topic for another day I guess.
     Back to the out-of-area email guy for a second: he was somewhat critical or at least non-understanding of the fact that I'm on SSDI and don't work.  He said he'd rather be dead than live like me...nice huh?  I wrote back that I'm glad I'm alive even though I don't fit his idea of what I'm "supposed" to do or not do.

     I'm just alert to things that don't add up with people on the internet (or for that matter, local, in-person.)  Some people ostensibly are "too busy" to invest the time.  Hell, we're all busy in our own way, so it's rather a question, then, of what the priorities are.  I also look for words and behavior that do not align...another red flag.

Gary

[poet]

Gary, odd that you should bring up Joy who lived in the penthouse of my old Chelsea building in NYC.    And I know what you mean about the phone number from two others, Boston based.  The first 'came' out of the blue telling me that I was _ ___ and that we 'had to meet.'  I was and perhaps am still working on medication certification for work so didn't want to schedule until that was out of the way.  I, like you, offered my phone number.  I, like you, have had emails since from him but not a call.  Ditto someone who lived on the Cape.  I stated the same problem with scheduling but I thought that I encouraged him by offering my phone number in the meantime.  I may have even given both my direct email address.  No call from either one, of course.  And there is no way that I would go to meet someone without having a phone number/without having spoken to him to get a clearer sense of him.  I can't 'read' someone using text online. 

I appreciate your comment, too, about the economic imbalances between us.  I always steer clear of someone who 'loves to travel, eat out, etc. etc.'  Best, Win

[Longislander]

Online dating through personals kinda just sucks. The photoshopped pics, the 'masculine' guys that sound like girls on the phone, etc... I still have the profiles, and pop in just to look around, but I'm pretty much finished with it. At this stage, I don't expect anything from anyone on there.

Twice in the past, I've spent many many evenings e-mailing and phone-talking to a guy, and then we met.  I see pics on the profile, and I see someone standing there, wondering who they are. In my mind, I've been talking with the guy in that pic. But he's nowhere to be seen! lol

Remember the good old days when you met in a bar?!?!?

[Queen Tokelove]

I joined the personals and I can relate to your issues. It seems to me that most are on there for booty calls more than relationships. I have gotten a few who on their profile says they won't be with anyone who smokes, then why did you email me? But I politely email them back and ask them to re-read my profile.

What has surprised me is that I have gotten responses from neg men. I automatically go to "red alert" because my first question is why do you want to be with someone poz? Because of issues with disclosure etc, I have a problem trusting anyone neg. I know it is a hangup I have developed but I decided to give both of them a chance. The one guy who is from Canada is very sweet and it seems we have a lot in common. So we now correspond thru Yahoo or by email.

The other one, I'm still trying to figure out. I had a conversation with him yesterday but I don't really think I have much more to say to him. For one, the conversation was kinda weird. I asked him the same question as the other, why do you wanna be with someone poz. His answer turned me off because his answer was like I want to get to know them and some other type stuff. Once again. "red alert" I do not want to be anyone's charity case. You'll never guess what his next response was, what bank do you use? WTF? So I said to him why, you gonna send me some money? He came up with some lame stuff, saying a friend was denied a bank account because of him being poz...Yeah, right...

Actually since I have been talking with my friend from Canada, I hadn't even been checking personals. But it really does suck to get to know someone and they live so far away....*sighs*

[Boo Radley]

Around 2000 I decided being single was infinitely more preferable to meeting yet another lying flake.  I talked to each guy on the phone more than once and only after meeting each one did I realize the truth.  The most irrritating lie was about smoking tobacco, which makes me sick after more than one hour's exposure.  The last jackass I met lived in Philadelphia, a lovely city to visit in summer, but before I'd been there 5 minutes he "found" a pack of his "roommate's" cigarettes and proceeded to smoke the entire time.  I kept opening all the windows in his apartment.   

Like Queen Akasha's, my experience was the majority of guys were looking for a casual fuck.  I've never really been into recreational sex so maybe I missed Mr. Right by skipping over Mr. Right Now.   I tried pretty many Right Nows before making this conclusion so I'm not prudish per se, just bored by casual sex.   At this point I'm happy with my cats and dogs, in a strictly platonic way of course.

Don't let my experiences stop you from finding a soul-mate online because I think it can and does happen.  Sometimes.

Boo

[Oh501sguy]

I can related to this.  I seriously have a problem with "looking for a date" Online, because I'm from the old days of meeting a real live person... face to face!  However, times have changed.  My opinion is that today you are judged twice:  First by your profile or how you present yourself online or in an AD... Then your judged when and if you actually meet.  Online dosen't seem to work for me because I am always in fear of hey, it's great on the net, but what if this person meets me and dosen't like my physical appearance.  What if I don't like his?  It's gotten complicated. 

I got a dog.  She loves me UNCONDITIONALLY and to hell with everybody else!   LOL

[Queen Tokelove]

  I've never really been into recreational sex so maybe I missed Mr. Right by skipping over Mr. Right Now.   I tried pretty many Right Nows before making this conclusion, just bored by casual sex.   At this point I'm happy with my cats and dogs, in a strictly platonic way of course.

I feel bored by it as well. But I was also wondering if it's because I am diabetic, they say it affects the sex drive. I have moments of horniness and I take care of it. But then it's like awhile again before I get horny. But even if I did have my drive back, I'm looking for something with substance. Not trying to be a perv but my cat acts like he's my man, he's very possessive of me and gets pissed when I'm gone too long.

I got a dog.  She loves me UNCONDITIONALLY and to hell with everybody else! I hear you, OH. Well, I know my cat loves me cause he's always trying to give me a kitty bath. And I know he is happy with me cause he is always purring, who could ask for anything more.

[GSOgymrat]

I've had mixed results with meeting people in person that I've talk to online. I've met several people who have turned out to be friends when sex was not involved. What I don't understand are people who lie about stuff online and then agree to meet you in person. Years ago when I was single I met a guy who lied about everything: his name, his age, his job, his physical appearance, his marital status. We made it through dinner at a restaurant and even though I had told him repeatedly online that I was not at all interested in sex or dating he still asked to come back to my place for sex. When I said no he asked "why not?" I finally lost my composure and and told him that unlike him everything I said online wasn't one big lie. He had the nerve to act offended.

[poet]

Well I hope that this thread is allowing us to vent on online dating.   The update on the CA is that after I flushed him out from my deleted messages (remember, he contacted me first) on the site, I left a message noting that while I had not received an email back directly from him, he had been online.  He sent me a short, direct email that he has had 'a sinus infection' which, please note, has been going on for over a week and has not stopped his online access.  Just stopped sending me a short email about his health issue. 

I had all but forgotten the guy on the Vineyard with whom I had shared direct emails and phone calls back and forth for months until it started to get harder and harder to figure out 'a good time' for either at his end.  He 'had to go to school' where he works.  Or 'the neighbor's cat' was outside.  Having stopped all profiles and such when I was moving, I reappeared online and, lo, there he was.  So I sent him a message.  He sent me back a direct email that he was going out for coffee and would call me to update me as soon as he got back.  Well, guess what?  I am still waiting.  And this, please understand, is someone who can get himself to the NPR station for a broadcast on hiv in which he asked participants a term I hate, 'Are you hiv?'

The lying dates (appropriate, no?) back to even the print personals.  I guess lot's of guys understand what Mr. Right would look like to most other guys and describe him as themselves.  At least I have been able to lift personals texts which really annoyed me and use them, almost directly, as texts in one or two poems. 

Maybe we will get a post or two from someone who has actually met people from online personals and were glad that they had done so, are still friends or who became partners?  Win

[DanielMark]

Oh yes, The Dating Game - online version. Ugh!

What I don't understand are people who lie about stuff online and then agree to meet you in person.

The only answer I can think of is, because they can, GSO. Nothing turns me on more than people waste my time!

I once agreed to meet someone in a coffee shop, because I believe it's best to meet strangers in a public space. Just common sense. The 45-year-old I went to meet looked more like 75, with a face only a mother could love. If she were half blind. 

The clueless used to only be roaming the earth. Now alas they are also roaming the Internet.

Surf with caution, ya'll.

Daniel

[poet]

DanielMark.  I have the answer.  Many, many, many years ago in NYC I found the answer in one person.  He was on the phone when I arrived.  The door to his apartment was open.  I more or less ignored him because he clearly was nothing as advertised and barely looked at me while he talked on the phone.  (I think this was a phone line system of leaving personals.)  But understand that he was enticing the next and the next and the next person while each previous enticee appeared.  To him, it was attriction.  If he got 100, 1,000 men to come over, the possibility increased that 1, just 1 of them might stay.  If he simply advertised himself as he was and met people in a reasonable manner, he would more than likely end up with no one.  Win

[Gary85741]

     I can't figure why people misrepresent themselves when wanting to meet someone from online.  The truth on everything is going to come out when the meeting actually occurs.  Equally important, however, it reflects the person's value system and maturity (or lack thereof!)
     If anything, I try to undersell myself on these things.  I put it all right out there so as to save time.  I smoke, I have wasting, I'm more an individualist than a clone, not seeking a quickie hookup, and I can't spend all day hiking etc. due to limited energy.  Yet, I've had some people who apparently didn't bother to read what I wrote.
     Maybe some of these guys are just feeling bored or lonely at the moment, are doing this as some sort of experiment, or trying to meet everyone possible so as to have the largest pool from which to select.  Perhaps others are seeking a fantasy, a Mr. Perfection, and haven't figured out such doesn't exist. 
     Blatant rudeness, insensitivity, and/or self-absorption are huge red flags.  Are there really so few of us that understand Social Skills 101?  I'm sure glad I do at least.  I love myself and have enough self-respect that folks such as have been described on this board would get their walking papers!

     Hey Poet...did you ever meet or get to know Dr. Browne when you lived in her building?  I think she's just great!

Gary

[allopathicholistic]

so Queen has her boy-cat and 501 has his gal-dog! that is simply adorable!! 

yup, I think it's 'cute' when I get emails from Georgia, Massachusetts, etc; but c'mon 

[Longislander]

when I signed on to a positive dating site, I couldn't believe so many men STILL had all their shit together, no problems, all beach walks, sunsets, and all the other amazing things they're into!

My profile there simply states I don't have all my shit together. Especially now.

I was surprised to get many replies about how they really don't either.

I guess it's all part of the fantasy world we;d like to be living in.

[poet]

To Longislander, yes, I love the constantly repeated (if you live near or visit Fire Island Pines or the Cape) walks on the beach and sunsets.     Somehow I would never have thought of that when I lived in Rye, N.Y.  To Allop., I understand your distance point (even though I DO live in MA and know that you have been waiting for me to find your profile  ) but another part of me sometimes, impractically, wonders if by looking only where someone is physically, I might be missing someone who would be a person of interest were the physical distance removed as a factor.  Not that my alarm bells don't go off when someone from CA contacts me and it is clear that he has lived his entire life in CA so what, exactly, is his point.  And then I go from MA listings to New England listings to Canada and Britain.  Is the search function trying to show me something? To Gary, I do remember traveling with her in the elevator or seeing her in the lobby.  S__t, I just remember what the connection was that I missed.  Because I was on the board, I got the monthly common charge pages showing who owned which units and was up to date or behind on payments.  She apparently was very close with the guys who lived next to me in 9F.  Now it took me forever (in gay time) to figure out the water issue, why water kept running in their apartment sounding as though it was running in mine (the details are in my new book).   What was going on is that the model agency they were running was an escort agency and the showers were of course the johns/escorts taking constant showers. 

To your other comments, you brought back a late boyfriend of mine whom I only knew for 6 months or so before he died.  Given that he was only 29 at the time, I can imagine that he wouldn't want to bring up his health, his lack of steady income as an actor, the fact that toward the end the most that we could do together was to watch Murder She Wrote on cable.  He also didn't have the energy to 'do' New York.  It's not that he profiled around his issues, but your words brought back what might have been in his mind given his health and the times: how attractive would he be to someone?  I admire the fact that you have such a clear sense of yourself, respect of yourself that you will make sure that your profile tells someone who you are rather than editing.  Win

[chadnla]

As someone that lives in CA (los angeles), I can speak first hand about people that contact you, you reply, then they never email again. I've had 2 guys in the past 2 wks where I've had a similar experience.

POTENTIAL DATE #1 - I was suppose to have a date with him, but he cancelled an hour before hand because he "forgot" he had made plans for dinner with a friend....YEAH RIGHT A%$HOLE!!  (hehe..that was my temper flaring up).

POTENTIAL DATE #2 - the second one replied to my email "sure I would love to have coffee with you". Gave him my number...said he would call...  <tapping foot>.....  <tapping foot>.... <tapping foot>.... now day 4. hmmm maybe it ain't gonna happen.

CA is nice and LA is okay in doses. What I don't like is the "yeah we'll do lunch" attitude or the grass is always greener.

I know, I know...bitter party of one.   

[Queen Tokelove]

I know, I know...bitter party of one.   

Do you mind if I join you? Just call me the Queen of Jaded Battle Axes. The we can be a party of 2.
Cause you know one is a lonely number....

[Gary85741]

     Win...you lived in an interesting building I see  .  Dr. Browne related a little story on-air once of going to see a unit for sale in her building, just for the purpose of getting some decorating and remodeling ideas for her own.  The agent thought she was a prospective tenant and told her "We have a celebrity who lives here...Dr. Browne, the psychologist."  He didn't recognize to whom he was speaking.

     Back to the psychology of personal ads: two perplexing 'requirements' listed which are not uncommon in (poz) personal ads are (1) "You must be employed," and (2) "You must be healthy."  As to the former, I wonder if the seeker's motivation is that he wants the other guy to have a so-called busy life, or, assumes (and that is an assumption not always accurate) that the unemployed/disabled person is destitute or economically disadvantaged.  As to the latter criteria, that just cracks me up.  They should elaborate on and define what 'healthy' means to them, though actually I myself would steer clear of such a person.

     Thinking about what you related regarding your late boyfriend, it indeed is a tad vexing to put out there things about one's self which one knows won't win a popularity contest.  But it is being forthcoming, and theoretically at least, saves the investment of time and emotions dealing with those who would not be interested otherwise.
     Kudos to you for not dumping the guy once he became more sedentary.  After all (IMHO,) just because someone wouldn't qualify as an Amazing Race contestant, it shouldn't mean they are assumed mundane or of diminished dating value...well, in an ideal world.

     Somewhat ironically, I learned to love myself as a consequence of the lipoatrophy.  That, to me, has been a major key in negotiating life and people.
     As an aside, somewhat, posts I place on these boards may, at times, come across as a bit whiny.  While that perhaps goes with the territory of some of these topics and what we post, I am actually a rather strong person (most days,) with a sense of humor, and a natural inquisitiveness about life and the world in which we live!

Gary

[poet]

Ok , Gary,  given the sinking real estate market, everyone should now check out The Grand Chelsea 270 West 17th Street in New York City 10017 (I hope I have the zip correct).  Featured residents include Dr. Joy Browne, The Danish Embassy and Lars Lubovich, the choreographer and his partner.  There is a benefit to having those common charge sheets monthly.  I made it a point as a board member to meet every real estate broker during the open houses on Sundays if only because I got the proposed leases and contracts of sale to go over on behalf of the condo.  It made things much easier for a broker with a question (i.e. can a washer be added to a unit?) to be able to run it past me before things got too tied up.

Getting to the meat of your comments and not the side dishes, yes, the 'employed' requirement to me comes out of stability, bill paying, perhaps bad experiences in the past?  But then while I am employed, part-time thanks to MassHealth restrictions, I personally steer clear of guys who check off that they make astronomical salaries: I want someone with whom I feel a financial commonality.  I can't, at the moment, jet off for a Paris weekend.  I would not/never allow someone to pay my way so that I could join him.  So getting to know someone who is unemployed or disabled/on disability is a plus for me since it takes the 'pressure' off.  If this is making sense to anyone reading it.

The 'healthy' thing is, yes, another dumb thing.  Have some of us not dated the 'healthy' whose health then turned downward?  The person we met when 'healthy' is the same person we then knew as 'unhealthy.'  Did we require a contract in which the person promised never to get sick?  Or maybe I date myself from a time when illness was quite possible?

As for not dumping Scott, it wasn't likely for that reason.  There was something about him which made me shake and stutter when I was around him.  But we did split up before he died.  I was literally wearing myself out, traveling to a foodstore, then to him, then leaving (he couldn't sleep with anyone anymore overnight) for my apartment (I always seemed to date someone on the westside when I lived on the eastside and viceversa) to sleep.  Then work, then to the foodstore.  The collapse occured shortly before my birthday.  I was on a trial, my building caught on fire (arson from next door) which gutted my apartment.  Not only was I then trying to keep up with Scott's needs, but I was, as president of that co-op, trying to save the building after the fire.  Scott had a roommate, thankfully, who was very supportive so I decided to breakup rather than breakdown.  Yes, had I known that he would be dead in months, what might I have decided?

My alarm bells at least are not picking up the 'whiny' which I do call people on.    Keep posting away!!

And, as a result of thinking and posting, I have started using the search feature and reaching out to guys by ignoring, absolutely ignoring, where they live.  I keep the needed 'filters' such as non-smoking, single, gay, positive and age range, but let the search pull up whom it may.  Crazy, most likely, but I no longer have the luxury of living in NYC.  Win

[Gary85741]

     Well Win...you didn't answer the question you posed...can, in fact, a washer be added to the unit?!    I reckon I could always call Dr. Browne on-air and asks if she has one.  Well on second thought...LOL

     As to the personal ads: Well I did know one once that insisted the other person must have a 'full' life.  Not feeling like documenting a time and motion study of my days, that didn't go far at all.
     We must presume, as to those requiring one be in good health, that they themselves are equipped to be rejected should their own health ever take a downturn in any way...yes?  LOL!

     Seems you did the honest thing for both you and Scott when logistically it just wasn't feasible to continue what would have been necessary, plus dealing with the other challenges on your plate.  Having your apartment rendered uninhabitable (and loosing belongings) would be overwhelming in and of itself...holy smokes.

     No harm can come from the act of casting a wider net in the internet meeting pool.  Whether out-of-area or local, I've come to view all of it as rather like sitting at a slot machine.  You keep inserting the quarters, realizing any one given roll of the tumblers likely won't pay off.  Yet, over time, theoretically, it should pay off sooner or later, never knowing when.

Gary

[poet]

Gary, the policy in place when I was on the board is that you could, as some had done, add a washer/dryer to your unit regardless of the floor that it was on.  However, it would have to be encased in lead to avoid potential leakage which is odd because the units already had dishwashers without the casing.  One of the features of the building was the 24/7 laundry room, the bathroom key to which kept disappearing or the bathroom would be found locked.  The laundry room is located on the same floor as the outside deck and since half the unit faced down to the deck, you get the picture I am sure.  Ah, NYC/Chelsea. 

Is a full life like a full figure?  Sort of globular and spreading all around? 

I suspect that the good health angle came in around the same time that hiv positive gay men in NYC discovered that gyms were now open 24/7 and they could pump away and 'no one would know' their actual hiv status.  Perhaps all first meetings between the good health requirers should be done at a gym so that each can impress the other with what he can do? And then make use of the steam room or showers to do more research.   

Having been so open about the Scott disaster which still bothers me, I can at least say that we had been dating for four months I think before the fire/apartment gutting.  I don't know what I would have done had we been together for a longer time, say a year, and everything started to fall apart and demand my attention at the same time.  I admire so much anyone who can take one disaster after the next and continue without a meltdown. 

To anyone reading this, I hope that lot's of guys take Gary's comment about the slot machine to heart.  If we all pose as at a bar with our profiles smiling it's no different than having a slot machine which never gets used.  You (we) have to keep inserting quarters, fully aware that the thing is rigged (to continue the metaphor) so that almost every time it doesn't deliver.  But it does, every once in a while.  And that, afterall, is what the relationship seekers are after: a payoff from their taking a chance.  Win