Even morally, I guess I'm OK with people thinking I'm a degenerate. Most of us don't mind a bit of sexual outlaw or hedonistic sodomite patina.
I guess finally I just have to ignore being considered dirty. But you get to talking and kind of like someone, so you're open to them. And they inquire about your dirtiness and unfortunately its not about being a hot dirty lay in the bedroom.
I can't even infect anyone fer crissakes,
It's never really bothered me one way or the other. The word clean is just part of the vernacular used to describe someone who doesn't have something. Does Tommy still have a drug problem? No, he's clean. Does he drink? No, he's clean and sober. Did the cops find drugs on him when he was searched? No, he was clean. You get my drift. I know it's pejorative and offensive to people with AIDS, but it just doesn't bother me. Course if you're covered with a sodomite patina it just might be time for a bit of a scrub.
I guess the fundamental difference is of the things you listed you can "get clean" where as with us, there's no changing the facts.
, it's just a code-word in a stupid question ("are you clean?") for people looking to bareback with a false sense of security, instead of protecting themselves (ie following that safer sex message).
BTW did I miss something in the news about a cure being found?
I don't like it either, but not sure I would want to see money spent on an education program dealing with the word "clean".
Not just for barebacking purposes. But you got that right - it's code. Its searching for security, safety and reassurance.
"degenerate" or being "dirty" ;D Hell yes, I'm all of those things, but I'm a man, and I cannot be anything else
maybe we should take a poll about the word "clean" ;)
maybe we should take a poll about the word "clean" ;)The mods aren't castigating, they are educating. It's a whole different kettle of fish for someone to use the word clean on a website dedicated to people with AIDS. They don't seem to mind when the mods point that out to them.
if the majority aren't bothered by it, then we should ask the mods to quit castigating all those in AII? who utter the word. personally, it's never bothered me and I never heard anyone complain about it until I came to this site.
maybe we should take a poll about the word "clean" ;)
if the majority aren't bothered by it, then we should ask the mods to quit castigating all those in AII? who utter the word. personally, it's never bothered me and I never heard anyone complain about it until I came to this site.
It's a whole different kettle of fish for someone to use the word clean on a website dedicated to people with AIDS.semantics
Fortunately your opinions on how AMI should and should not be managed are dismissed with the contempt they deserve.excuse me but your statement is incorrect. I wasn't saying anything all about MY opinions. I was talking about a poll which would be a consensus opinion (and that's why I wrote the word "majority"). I just thought it odd that while Mods will "fuss" at people in AII using the word "clean" as being derogatory, that members here would say mecch was reading too much into the situation. Obviously if it's rude for someone to use that written word in the AII forum then it would be just as rude to say that to an HIV+ in person (maybe even ruder)
semantics
one person using the word clean referring to being HIV- (the guy asking mecch) is just the same as another one using clean to refer to being HIV- (someone on AII)
excuse me but your statement is incorrect. I wasn't saying anything all about MY opinions. I was talking about a poll which would be a consensus opinion (and that's why I wrote the word "majority"). I just thought it odd that while Mods will "fuss" at people in AII using the word "clean" as being derogatory, that members here would say mecch was reading too much into the situation. Obviously if it's rude for someone to use that written word in the AII forum then it would be just as rude to say that to an HIV+ in person (maybe even ruder)
Either the word is troublesome or it's not. I just thought I was detecting the whiff of a double standard.
I don't give a particular fuck about what the OP has to say. I pay little attention to his posts these days. He is after all a man in his late 40s who, by his own admission, is sexually aroused by the aroma of beer on the breath of 15 year old boys.
The reason that the fuckwits who ask questions in AMI get grief from us when they use the term "clean" to refer to HIV status is because they don't get to speak to us like that.
It's disrespectful. They are visitors on HIV positive turf seeking favours and they don't get to speak to us like that.
We don't have to take that sort of shit from mortals. Frankly, HIV positive people who are ambivalent in the face being called dirty or diseased or filthy let the side down.
So you can shove your poll up your arse. This isn't question to be resolved by the majority. It's a point of pride and principle.
MtD
The reason that the fuckwits who ask questions in AMI get grief from us when they use the term "clean" to refer to HIV status is because they don't get to speak to us like that.Matty, as usual you and I happen to disagree; but only about the reasoning this time. You think it's disrepectful, and I think it's ignorance/lack of education. Obviously the people that use that term clearly have missed the whole safer sex message in the first place. But we do both agree that the usage of that term should not go unchallenged.
It's disrespectful. They are visitors on HIV positive turf seeking favours and they don't get to speak to us like that.
We don't have to take that sort of shit from mortals. Frankly, HIV positive people who are ambivalent in the face being called dirty or diseased or filthy let the side down.
Poor guy .. perhaps the government can find a few resources to help clean up those trashy park pick up lines uttered in French for you .
your above comments make me wonder why you care so much, about what other people MAY think about you? You seem to be projecting judgment by others and even if it is true, why you do you believe it to be true? You know who and what you are and if you reject the idea of you being a "degenerate" or being "dirty", then you are neither.
It's never really bothered me one way or the other. The word clean is just part of the vernacular used to describe someone who doesn't have something. ... I know it's pejorative and offensive to people with AIDS, but it just doesn't bother me. Course if you're covered with a sodomite patina it just might be time for a bit of a scrub.
I don't give a particular fuck about what the OP has to say. I pay little attention to his posts these days.then, OMIGOD, why are you even bothering to post in his thread??!?! You quite obviously do not care for the OP (or myself as we know from prior threads) yet here you are stirring up trouble. I would like to also point out that you just lied, for by posting here you clearly ARE paying attention to Mecch's posts. And obviously to mine, although you and I have frequently butted heads. I really suggest that since you can't control yourself from posting pejorative things to people you don't like or care about, that you use the IGNORE function once it returns.
However if you'll notice (and it was why I posted what I did), several of the first answers Mecch received clearly said the opposite. They basically accused Mecch of being too sensitive and that the usage of the word "clean" was a non-issuse or at worst a mental issue with Mecch. So I wondered if people really think it's such a non-issue then why do the Mods make such a big issue of it? Clearly not all members here see it (the usage of the word clean) as you (and I and the other Mods) do.
cuntiness.I think the last time I heard/seen that word was at University.
...I find the use of the word "clean" when referencing sexual health to be extremely offensive. ...
D- the 'offender' is not offered a proper option on how to ask ? (have you seen any TV campain about how to properly ask the question in politically correct terms recently ?)ah! and that's the crux of the issue. ;) (ignoring any disrespect or prejudism issues)
...
Then... what is the proper word to use then ?? (and in French, SVP, if you do not mind)
ah! and that's the crux of the issue. ;) (ignoring any disrespect or prejudism issues)
There is no proper way to ask because it's a nonsensical question. You'll never know if you're getting the truth in the answer, so there is no reason for asking in the first place. (Are you clean? Why sure! ::) ) A TV/ad compaign should explain to never ask that kind of question in the first place but to always engage in safer sex.
I really deeply believe that HIV is a virus with no morals, and certainly no cleanliness or dirtiness.that's one of the things I talk about sometimes when I'm speaking to groups of people about HIV - especially the college kids (god that makes me sound so old LOL). HIV is just another one of the many germs running around on the planet. I refuse to let people stigmatize me for being sick with an illness. While it may, for the most part, be sexually transmitted and maybe that makes it a bit risque; just like all sorts of other illnesses, it's just one person transmitting a germ to another person.
Just ask for the info desired, and leave out all the supposedly polite round-abouts that are just gonna put everyone in the shit.but again, asking for that info leads nowhere. Only by being tested together and getting results together can anyone truly know the HIV status of someone else. and of course, if you're having safe sex, there's really no reason to ask this question about someone's status anyway. ;)
I don't particularly like the clean/dirty binary but I am thankful that when people express that way they're showing me their ignorance upfront. Interestingly, I don't think I have ever been asked that question, in quite the same way, face to face. It seems to be an electronic artefact.
I don't particularly like the clean/dirty binary but I am thankful that when people express that way they're showing me their ignorance upfront. Interestingly, I don't think I have ever been asked that question, in quite the same way, face to face. It seems to be an electronic artefact.
We smoke, drink, bareback, drive fast, and eat tons of red meat with merry abandon, despite all the warnings we have read/heard throughout our lives.
CaptCarl
I said in a "semi-perfect" world and in no way expect such a campaign. I'm venting. Wishful thinking.
Repeat. Personally dont expect it.
As I said, Switzerland did a campaign about stigma. It was an open question.
It interesting the link between this casual stigma and the efficacy of safe sex education.
what makes anyone think that yet another campaign about something not nearly as important is going to work? We smoke, drink, bareback, drive fast, and eat tons of red meat with merry abandon, despite all the warnings we have read/heard throughout our lives. Why would people suddenly sit up and take heed of a campaign about something that, in the context of the larger world, is basically trivial and meaningless? Wouldn't the energy and resources funneled into such a project be better utilized by directing them into something more useful to more people.it would seem that another campaign (or 2 or 3 or 4) is exactly what's needed since there are still HIV infections happening. That other thread simply proves that what has been used hasn't worked 100% yet, so maybe this would be the project to reach another group of people and get some more results.
We smoke, drink, bareback, drive fast, and eat tons of red meat with merry abandon, despite all the warnings we have read/heard throughout our lives.yikes! that sort of defeatist-sounding pronouncement would then lead us to ask why attempt any safe-sex message at all if they are just guaranteed to fail because humans don't listen to warnings.
No prevention campaign will ever work 100% and it's moronic to think that any would.
No prevention campaign will ever work 100% and it's moronic to think that any would.of course, rarely does any campaign work 100% But shouldn't the goal be to stop the spread of HIV 100%? I would hate to think that they're designing safe sex campaigns to only be 70-80% effective. But since realistically no campagin will ever be 100% effective, that's why it makes sense to consider other possible campaigns to reach some of the people that haven't been reached.
I cannot help but to find the idea of an anti-stigma campaign to be rather dubious.Ah! I was not talking about this as an anti-stigma campaign; but as a safe-sex campaign. I know mecch brought this topic up as being offended but I pointed out that the question itself, regardless of it's offensiveness, is just stupid and doesn't get to the heart of the matter. Asking about someone's status (ie are you clean?) is no way to have safe sex - because people lie and people don't know their own status. And that would be the reason to use the clean meme in a safe sex campaign. Not to try to keep people from offending HIV+ people's sensibilites.
I suspect that between she and the other moderators here as well as a few others, they bring the issue of "clean" to peoples attention and with the desired effect more efficiently than any public campaign likely would.Not diminishing what the mods do, but they only bring this issue to people who have already come to this site. An actual public campaign would reach many more people than ever visit this site.
Well, I treat everyone like they have AIDS or and STD, you simply have to, been that way for many yrs. now ;)
Someone's got the Right Idea.....
I give up being a prude ;D
It's hard being a prude. I've tried it . . . it didn't work :P
I love the nookie too much :-*
I don't think I have times of lent. . . :-\
I blame the last remnant of my teenage hormones :P
"RIPE" lol
I turn 21 this year, I can't use the teenage hormones thing after that :P
so milking it for all it's worth
of course, rarely does any campaign work 100% But shouldn't the goal be to stop the spread of HIV 100%? I would hate to think that they're designing safe sex campaigns to only be 70-80% effective. But since realistically no campagin will ever be 100% effective, that's why it makes sense to consider other possible campaigns to reach some of the people that haven't been reached.
Even stranger are phrases like ''discretion and hygiene are essential'' (where ''hygiene'' stands for being HIV-) :o
In my Manhunt profile I have: HIV: ask me,
but no one has ever asked. ???
What is all this manhunt crap? just cause you use that doesn't mean that everyone does ::) AGAIN speak for yourself ::)
How did anyone survive HIV-dating before the Manhunt era... ::rolls eyes::
We did just fine miss P :-*
We did just fine miss P :-*