POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Mensaje iniciado por: eric48 en Junio 08, 2014, 09:08:35 am
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UD pozzies are not infectious. Period
In many countries where drugs are available rate of infections has failed to curb down.
The main source and hence target for intervention is well identified: among some (not all) Non-UD Pozzies BUT not UD -Ps
UD Ps are non infectious and the best active barrier to change the stats so why not stop self bashing and engage in a communication that reflects hope, care, do-the-right-thing
What can we come up with that would promote a sense of responsibility rather than exaggerate a damaged goods image
Or do you think it is too early ?
Looking forward to your opinion and, hopefully some creative ideas
Eric
Typo in pool title : I meant UD-Pozzies can NOT and not can...
Where can I change this?
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FACEPALM
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FACEPALM
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UD pozzies are not infectious. Period
In many countries where drugs are available rate of infections has failed to curb down.
The main source and hence target for intervention is well identified: among some (not all) Non-UD Pozzies BUT not UD -Ps
UD Ps are non infectious and the best active barrier to change the stats so why not stop self bashing and engage in a communication that reflects hope, care, do-the-right-thing
What can we come up with that would promote a sense of responsibility rather than exaggerate a damaged goods image
Or do you think it is too early ?
Looking forward to your opinion and, hopefully some creative ideas
Eric
Typo in pool title : I meant UD-Pozzies can NOT and not can...
Where can I change this?
My personal opinion: you are damaged goods only if you think you are damaged goods. It's how you think and act that is important.
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UD pozzies are not infectious. Period
Your premise isn't true anyway (http://www.aidsmap.com/Second-analysis-concludes-that-we-cant-eliminate-the-long-term-possibility-of-HIV-transmission-from-someone-on-treatment/page/2857022/)
... but it's definitely "near zero"
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FACEPALM
Agreed.
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FACEPALM
FACEPALM
FACEPALM
Joe
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so i shouldn't get the tattoo on my ass to celebrate UD?
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i love my bio-hazard tattoo. although it's on my back and my only tattoo that I can't see, I still love it.
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I think for some the biohazard symbol was a way to openly acknowledge their poz status; a kind of way of saying to other gay men fuck yes I am, so what, deal with it. So I feel its culturally significant. Hope that makes sense.
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i love my bio-hazard tattoo. although it's on my back and my only tattoo that I can't see, I still love it.
So you THINK you like your tattoo LOL . I will get one on my ass if I ever have to take norvir again . Out of all the nasty HIV meds I detest norvir the best ... it was disturbing what became of that med when it met my intestines . I offended and english bulldog who shared my bed whilst on that drug ... thats quite an acomplisment when you think about it .
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Norvir is so much fun. I take it twice a day and have a special bucket for soaking my underwear and carry spare undies in my back back in case of little "accidents".
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I find this "poll" divisive and narrow minded, tone-deaf and insulting.
Tone-deaf and insulting to people and their experiences in life. The only time I have seen bio-hazard symbols is as tattoos - so WTF are you suggesting? Has it ever occurred to you these are meaningful to the people who have them? Nobody is forcing the biohazard on anyone. And time marches on.
It's narrow-minded to make more attempts to divide society into binaries -- like you are seeming to do with this "UD pozzies". Ick.
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I find this "poll" divisive and narrow minded, tone-deaf and insulting.
Thank you .
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The only time I have seen bio-hazard symbols is as tattoos - so WTF are you suggesting?
You're kidding right ? If you have never seen a bio hazard symbol other than a tattoo, you haven't been around much.
There all over hospitals, in doctors offices, Nursing homes, Assisted living. where you get you blood drawn... It's where they deposit used needles, Etc. The containers are clearly marked "Bio Hazard" ( with the symbol,..and I see many of those containers when I have my blood drawn every 3 months ! I saw a lot of them in the workplace, and I had one at my desk.
I've seen trucks on the road with the Bio hazard Symbol. Those are the trucks that pick up the bio hazard waste, from those places I mentioned.
Eric, the symbol is not going away anytime soon.
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oh no, I know I love it. It was all exposed all day the other day at the water park. (I've got a season pass to the amusement park (Carowinds) just a couple miles away from my house and I spent 2 days away from the remodeling at my house over is the water park). I heard whispering about my tat. I had people ask what they symbol was. I had people ask what the tat meant to me. Kids and adults.
But then that's just me. Shirtless all summer long, in a pool somewhere, and willing to talk to anybody about the HIV.
(ps I picked wild and sexy in the poll, as if there was any question. LOL)
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Your premise isn't true anyway (http://www.aidsmap.com/Second-analysis-concludes-that-we-cant-eliminate-the-long-term-possibility-of-HIV-transmission-from-someone-on-treatment/page/2857022/)
... but it's definitely "near zero"
That premise may be true. Or it may not. We just don´t know.
I don´t care about my virus. I don´t care about a cure (for me). All what I want is to be 100% non-infectious. And maybe I am already, but there is no way I can prove it, so most people will be always scared to have sex with me.
And that sucks very much. And if we are really non-infectious it would be totally unfair. And it would suck even more.
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And that sucks very much. And if we are really non-infectious it would be totally unfair. And it would suck even more.
Thank you !
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Has it ever occurred to you these are meaningful to the people who have them?
This presumes an ability to rationally think prior to posting......
You're kidding right ? If you have never seen a bio hazard symbol other than a tattoo, you haven't been around much.
I do believe that the OP wasn't talking about bio-hazard symbols in general -- just those that are "used" by poz folks. I'm assuming predominately the tattoos that some have.
Thank you !
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I didn't read Disturbed post as agreeing with your insulting premise.
Mike
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You're kidding right ? If you have never seen a bio hazard symbol other than a tattoo, you haven't been around much.
There all over hospitals, in doctors offices, Nursing homes, Assisted living. where you get you blood drawn... It's where they deposit used needles, Etc. The containers are clearly marked "Bio Hazard" ( with the symbol,..and I see many of those containers when I have my blood drawn every 3 months ! I saw a lot of them in the workplace, and I had one at my desk.
I've seen trucks on the road with the Bio hazard Symbol. Those are the trucks that pick up the bio hazard waste, from those places I mentioned.
Eric, the symbol is not going away anytime soon.
Obvious I mean the tattoo as e symbol for HIV+. And the tattoo was never that pervasive anyway.
I assumed Eric is speaking of the tattoo's symbolism/significations by HIV+ people to each other, and to the world :o
How many are out there, and how many people really notice, and who really has such bad reactions that someone is drumming their fingers hoping to ban the practice because somehow its damaging and not forward looking?
(And fund all the tattoo removal - good luck with that one...)
Now Eric, if you succeed in on your Herculean battle, may I suggest your next challenge? Please could you ban adult men buy and wearing suits that are too small. Short arms, short legs, seams running into the buttcrack which we see because the vent is also too short, falling to mid butt. Enough with this madness! ::)
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I find this "poll" divisive and narrow minded, tone-deaf and insulting.
Well, if a poll was unifying in its nature, it wouldn't be a poll would it?
Im curious to know how this biohazard tattoo thing went viral in the first place. Is it from all the symbols found in AIDS wards? If people draw inspiration for tattoos based on what they see in their daily life, then I imagine UD pozzies would eventually get a tattoo of an oval outline with "123" or "GSI" inside
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Well, if a poll was unifying in its nature, it wouldn't be a poll would it?
Im curious to know how this biohazard tattoo thing went viral in the first place. Is it from all the symbols found in AIDS wards? If people draw inspiration for tattoos based on what they see in their daily life, then I imagine UD pozzies would eventually get a tattoo of an oval outline with "123" or "GSI" inside
Adopting the symbol was and act of defiance and a personal statement on what we went through in the 80's and 90's . To me its the same thing as when people adopt offensive words there were once used to stereotype, hurt and disenfranchise in order to rob it of the power to do harm .
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There's a hardcore punk / heavy metal band based in NYC called Biohazard (active for 25 years) and I've seen what I'm fairly sure are straight guys using this tattoo symbol. I'd only feel safe relying on the status if I was in a gay bar or bath house.
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Is it from all the symbols found in AIDS wards? If people draw inspiration for tattoos based on what they see in their daily life, then I imagine UD pozzies would eventually get a tattoo of an oval outline with "123" or "GSI" inside
:D although I don't have any tattoos, You may have started something here ! :)
Ray
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Adopting the symbol was and act of defiance and a personal statement on what we went through in the 80's and 90's . To me its the same thing as when people adopt offensive words there were once used to stereotype, hurt and disenfranchise in order to rob it of the power to do harm .
But that doesnt explain why the biohazard symbol in particular became adopted. It would have been seen on normal surgical wards and etc right?
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No one should be told what to do with his or her body. If you want a biohazard tat, get it done. I totally appreciate the symbolism.
But I do think we need to address the tendency for some of the more "mature" members of this forum having mile long signature blocks.
It futzes up the screens.
MtD
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But I do think we need to address the tendency for some of the more "mature" members of this forum having mile long signature blocks.
werd
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But that doesnt explain why the biohazard symbol in particular became adopted. It would have been seen on normal surgical wards and etc right?
People who had HIV were treated as bio-hazards and that's the connection ... The people I knew in the 80's who adopted the symbol did it for political and social statement reasons . I cant speak to why people do it today but this was my experience from way back when . I think some folks get them now because they think its a cool graphic ... and is is in my opinion and cool graphic .
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I don't understand how it can be suggested that it's time to drop the tat when some don't even understand the significance of it. I've spent enough fucking time in hospital rooms with that symbol plastered everywhere including a huge one on the door to my room. Time to drop it???? WHY? It has historical significance in that it allowed people to own it and diminish the negative connotation associated with it.
As a person who was indoctrinated with a deep religious belief about tats and piercings, I could also suggest it's time to stop tats all together? NO, it's a fundamental truism that all people have the right to decide what to do with their bodies. If you don't like the bio tat, don't get one. It's along the same tide of repubs who seek to diminish the rights of individuals due to beliefs that differ.
Remember the posts that went around a while back; "don't believe in gay marriage? Don't marry someone of the same sex". "Don't believe in abortion? don't get one". The list is pretty much endless.
I personally will never have a tat or piercing but would never suggest that others should follow my beliefs.
wolfie
modified to add: I just realized why this whole symbol thing angered me. Just a few years ago, I was admitted to the hospital with a few CD4's and a vl of 6.7 million. Wracked with the Crypto, it was assumed I was finished. They admitted me to a paliative care room and plastered a huge fucking bio hazard symbol on my door. I went totally bat shit crazy and my beloved now doctor agreed and was also upset. I was moved to a regular room with no door tats visible. :)
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I just noticed the 'come up with another symbol for UD'. Great. Just what we need. Yet another way to have some marginization in the community!
I never really gave it much thought. I see enough of the tats in the gym, at the beach....everywhere. I assume that the wearer knew what he or she was permanently getting on his or her body, so my only thought is usually, 'Well good for you! work it!'
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Oh wow, so thats what that means.. I've seen these tats before and had no idea it was a "I'm POZ" statement.. Always thought it meant "I'm toxic" or "I'm dangerous".. never thought to ask cause I never ask people about their tattoos anyways.. I did find them pretty cool though in a punk kind a way :)
Now that I know, I'll ask "hey, are you POZ? me too!" LOL
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But that doesnt explain why the biohazard symbol in particular became adopted. It would have been seen on normal surgical wards and etc right?
In 1985, at Morton Plant Hospital in Clearwater, Florida, The Bio- hazard was placed on the doors of rooms that had Aids patients in there.
When I was visiting a friend of mine at that hospital, in 1985, I was handed a mask and foot covers before I entered the room. The bio -hazard symbol was on the door, and that was the first time I noticed it.
Thus.... As Paul Harvey used to say, " Now you know the rest of the story"
Ray
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there is a band that uses it as its logos, their fans also get the tattoo, don't assume someone is positive just by that tattoo.
i wasn't being sarcastic either, i really am thinking about getting some ink for UD, i expect to be this lab and think something is in order
i've also heard, maybe even here, that a scorpion tattoo is also a positive symbol
i was thinking of a red positive sign, inner wrist.
i'm not trying to marginalize anyone
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No Zach, my point was that our own community is sometimes our worst enemy. Too old, Too young, Too Big, too......whatever you want? It just doesn't seem as if there is any filter on when it comes to setting people apart.
There are a couple that I know that have big bio-hazards on their shoulders. At the bar, I've overheard a few whispers coming from some of the younger set when they look at them and Lord only knows what they think it is. Of course, one day they laughed at the leather-daddy bouncer's chaps and he drug them across the street to the dance bar, threw them in the door and told them to stay there until they grew a pair.
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Oh wow, so thats what that means.. I've seen these tats before and had no idea it was a "I'm POZ" statement.. Always thought it meant "I'm toxic" or "I'm dangerous".. never thought to ask cause I never ask people about their tattoos anyways.. I did find them pretty cool though in a punk kind a way :)
Now that I know, I'll ask "hey, are you POZ? me too!" LOL
I would not automatically assume it means they are poz ... I also want to make it clear that my definition of what that symbol means may not be the same for others .
I once knew a woman who's nick name was Fly Girl who sported a home made tattoo that read Fly Grill because her boyfriend could not spell .
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Got it ;) No assuming .. And scorpians look cool too. ;)
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Quote: What can we come up with that would promote a sense of responsibility rather than exaggerate a damaged goods image
When outsiders evaluate insider culture, they often make ridiculously wrong assumptions due to interference from their own personal cultural baggage. This is an example.
The biohazard tattoo is not in any way a mark of “damaged goods” for the majority of those sporting one, myself included. The meanings vary from person to person, but for most of us it's a mark of pride (for some even of superiority over the uninfected who in many ways have not yet witnessed the richness of being alive and of being human, their eyes blinded by the shining but ephemeral rays of hope for immortality and belief in their own eternal youth).
We, on the other hand, have the opportunity to learn early what many only learn at the end of the end (if at all). This symbol says we have not been afraid to live, to touch, to experience, and we are still here. And, of course, it warns: enter at your own risk. There are biohazards present.
But mine is an old-fashioned view. The kids these days think I'm about as toxic as milquetoast. It’s hepatitis C, global financial collapse and asteroid strikes on Earth that they worry about, not mundane threats like the common cold or (haha) AIDS.
As for recognition of the symbol, I'd guess that maybe around half of the people who see it know what it means, keeping in mind that the only people who see mine are gay men who are positive themselves, those who pretend to be positive and those who don't care.
For what it’s worth, my second tattoo, in response to the first, is an antibody symbol.
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Glad to see a post from you Lee. It's been awhile and I miss your input but I suppose you have been busy with who knows what. Sure would love to hear how you are doing lately.
Sorry for the short hijack.
modified to add:
if I were younger and single I might consider a bioH tattoo.
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Glad to see a post from you Lee. It's been awhile and I miss your input but I suppose you have been busy with who knows what. Sure would love to hear how you are doing lately.
Sorry for the short hijack.
modified to add:
if I were younger and single I might consider a bioH tattoo.
When you come visit we can get matching biohazard tattoos on our face Mike Tyson style .
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When you come visit we can get matching biohazard tattoos on our face Mike Tyson style .
you first.
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you first.
I could so easy just get a henna tat and let you get a real one LOL .
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I could so easy just get a henna tat and let you get a real one LOL .
you probably could get away with it. :-\
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Quote: What can we come up with that would promote a sense of responsibility rather than exaggerate a damaged goods image
When outsiders evaluate insider culture, they often make ridiculously wrong assumptions due to interference from their own personal cultural baggage. This is an example.
The biohazard tattoo is not in any way a mark of “damaged goods” for the majority of those sporting one, myself included. The meanings vary from person to person, but for most of us it's a mark of pride (for some even of superiority over the uninfected who in many ways have not yet witnessed the richness of being alive and of being human, their eyes blinded by the shining but ephemeral rays of hope for immortality and belief in their own eternal youth).
We, on the other hand, have the opportunity to learn early what many only learn at the end of the end (if at all). This symbol says we have not been afraid to live, to touch, to experience, and we are still here. And, of course, it warns: enter at your own risk. There are biohazards present.
But mine is an old-fashioned view. The kids these days think I'm about as toxic as milquetoast. It’s hepatitis C, global financial collapse and asteroid strikes on Earth that they worry about, not mundane threats like the common cold or (haha) AIDS.
As for recognition of the symbol, I'd guess that maybe around half of the people who see it know what it means, keeping in mind that the only people who see mine are gay men who are positive themselves, those who pretend to be positive and those who don't care.
For what it’s worth, my second tattoo, in response to the first, is an antibody symbol.
...an eloquent response, thank you.
Like Mich, its good to hear from you and I hope you are well.
JM
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Interesting comments, but I think it's comparing apples to oranges. The Biohazard symbol never meant one was undetectable, simply because undetectable did not exist. I think a combination of what Jeff, Greg and Oksikoko said is much closer to the truth about the origin and use of the symbol.
I think a more relevant question would be: "Should we choose a symbol that reflects our virus (poz) and health (undetectable) status?" You could pick a symbol and then color it, say green to reflect undetectable, red for untreated, or whatever.
Personally, the last thing we need are more ways to divide our community, because it's just so damn hard to open your mouth and actual state your relevant health information.
Joe
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When you come visit we can get matching biohazard tattoos on our face Mike Tyson style .
i would LOVE a face tat! I just never got around to it and now I'm probably getting too old to bother with it. LOL
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[. . . ] Now Eric, if you succeed in on your Herculean battle, may I suggest your next challenge? Please could you ban adult men buy and wearing suits that are too small. Short arms, short legs, seams running into the buttcrack which we see because the vent is also too short, falling to mid butt. Enough with this madness! ::)
I totally refute your premiss with the following well selected link to a semi current op-ed piece clearly stating we should encourage more tiny bathing suits. The fact that this led me to following the links to photos of Tom Daley in his suit was, most assuredly, purely coincidental.
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/doonan/2013/06/men_in_speedos_american_men_need_to_get_over_their_fear_of_wearing_swim.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/life/doonan/2013/06/men_in_speedos_american_men_need_to_get_over_their_fear_of_wearing_swim.html)
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Miss P owns about a dozen designer swimsuits in very small cuts, which she flaunted for years from East Hampton, to Miami and on to San Juan -- and a dash of Cap d'Antibes . However, I packed them away once I turned 35 along with all of my tank tops. One must be age appropriate.
* pictures available upon request
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What exactly would be a tattoo for "undetectable"?
Should it be reactive to viral load and disappear when there is a viral load "blip"? The viral load tattoo equivalent of a 70's mood ring?
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What exactly would be a tattoo for "undetectable"?
Should it be reactive to viral load and disappear when there is a viral load "blip"? The viral load tattoo equivalent of a 70's mood ring?
It would a tattoo that reads 50 thats been crossed out and 20 written beside it, or something .
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just a mark for the day. one more in a line of them. i was thinking the outline of a red cross, with B POS written across. my blood type, but also an obvious play on words
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Miss P owns about a dozen designer swimsuits in very small cuts, which she flaunted for years from East Hampton, to Miami and on to San Juan -- and a dash of Cap d'Antibes . However, I packed them away once I turned 35 along with all of my tank tops. One must be age appropriate.
* pictures available upon request
ha! Being inappropriate was a hallmark of youth to begin with.
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They have a biohazard sticker on the needle box at my local blood draw center. It pisses me off because I still haven't worked up the nerve to play Jeff's game of, "stick your hand in there and swirl it around a bit".
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They have a biohazard sticker on the needle box at my local blood draw center. It pisses me off because I still haven't worked up the nerve to play Jeff's game of, "stick your hand in there and swirl it around a bit".
Its a new version of Pokemon .
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Just get HIV+ tattooed on yer arse, as conservative pundit William F. Buckley scandalously proposed a thousand years ago.
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Back in our day, we didn't need tats to identify as being poz. Grown ass men weighing 90lbs and walking with canes pretty much outed us. ;)
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I met an early 20s cutie the other day with a biohazard symbol and because of age and this era in the HIV epidemic, I thought it was interesting he got one and my feelings on seeing it were different and new.
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Back in our day, we didn't need tats to identify as being poz. Grown ass men weighing 90lbs and walking with canes pretty much outed us. ;)
hey! ;)
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Ugh. I hate this thread. It's even worse than I imagined. No offense meant to anyone in particular, but I find the whole original premise of it to be ick.
It smacks of that same sort of talk from folks who sound desperate to replace "AIDS" with "Advanced HIV Disease" and all that. I also don't like the notion of coming up with some new and improved label to slap on those who are "healthy" vs. those who are not. Cuz guess what? We're all just an issue away from moving into the other column in one way or another, and even if I'm currently doing fine I would rather align myself with those who aren't in the first place. They are the ones who need it. The beautiful people need no help remaining beautiful.
Just - I'm sorry, but just what the hell is the point of all this? Of all the things HIV/AIDS related to pick up the banner for, this is the crusade??
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Ugh. I hate this thread. It's even worse than I imagined. No offense meant to anyone in particular, but I find the whole original premise of it to be ick.
It smacks of that same sort of talk from folks who sound desperate to replace "AIDS" with "Advanced HIV Disease" and all that. I also don't like the notion of coming up with some new and improved label to slap on those who are "healthy" vs. those who are not. Cuz guess what? We're all just an issue away from moving into the other column in one way or another, and even if I'm currently doing fine I would rather align myself with those who aren't in the first place. They are the ones who need it. The beautiful people need no help remaining beautiful.
Just - I'm sorry, but just what the hell is the point of all this? Of all the things HIV/AIDS related to pick up the banner for, this is the crusade??
Thanks Tim ... I could not agree more .
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The beautiful people need no help remaining beautiful.
Kiehl's is expensive!
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this endless AIDS phobia makes its hard not to feel like damaged goods
Of course there is nothing wrong about tatoos on one's buttocks.
Of course, burying a discussion with irrelevant comments will always work
So what about a politically correct poll ?: time to drop ... elephant bells ... ?
Biohazards, used in avatars (Twitter, etc.) are for every one to see and convey a message
Is the message they carry, in public domain, still appropriate ?
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I don't hate the thread, although I can understand how some will take offense.
Personally I admire guys with the biohazard tattoo. I think it's sexy and I like their willingness to be open. But I wouldn't have one myself. Then again I'm old enough to have seen a lot of tattoo fads (bicep barbed wire, tribal, yin/yang, etc) and never been tempted, so I guess they're just not for me.
The real question is one of stigma. I suppose you can make the case that someone with a non-infectious condition (assuming UD) needn't sport a biohazard sign, but HIV doesn't exist in the same socio-medical realm as diabetes, and isn't likely to anytime soon. So I find it hard to accept that having a tattoo adds to the stigma, if that's the point here. To the contrary, being open about status is probably the best antidote to stigma that's available.
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this endless AIDS phobia makes its hard not to feel like damaged goods
Of course there is nothing wrong about tatoos on one's buttocks.
Of course, burying a discussion with irrelevant comments will always work
So what about a politically correct poll ?: time to drop ... elephant bells ... ?
Biohazards, used in avatars (Twitter, etc.) are for every one to see and convey a message
Is the message they carry, in public domain, still appropriate ?
You didn't put this option in your poll:
"I vote that people can choose whatever symbol they want as one identifier. I think that a symbol like biohazard changes meaning over time, and always has several significations anyway, depending on who is using it, and who is seeing it."
But that would have destroyed the bias built into your poll. I get that you are frustrated that the world, the general public, has a hard time understanding the contradictory meanings of an HIV diagnosis and infection. But why police HIV+ people about how they choose to deal at the social level (such as a visible biohazard symbol), with their own infection?
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this endless AIDS phobia makes its hard not to feel like damaged goods
Of course there is nothing wrong about tatoos on one's buttocks.
Of course, burying a discussion with irrelevant comments will always work
So what about a politically correct poll ?: time to drop ... elephant bells ... ?
Biohazards, used in avatars (Twitter, etc.) are for every one to see and convey a message
Is the message they carry, in public domain, still appropriate ?
YOU ASKED FOR OPINIONS - -now you are deeming any that go against your preconceived outcome, as "irrelevant comments".
Here is a thought -- perhaps just like gays taking the word "queer" as their own to diminish its use as an invective, taking on the biohazard symbol gives some folks a sense of power over other's preconceived notions.
However -- whatever someone's reason - it's theirs and your interp of their motives are not a basis to "vote on their choice".
Stigma is fought best by many strategies and many fronts. Perhaps you should focus your energies on what YOU CAN DO, vs. what others can do. You don't like the Biohazard sign, don't use it.
Mike
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you're just tempting me to show off my tattooed ass
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Symbols of solidarity have assisted the gay culture in eliminating stigma for some time now. Is it also time to drop the rainbow flag?
It's unfortunate that the OP dismisses comments as irrelevant. A true discussion allows for open and honest communication regardless of the content.