Author Topic: Worried-not-so-well? (Read 49716 times)

Gargamel · « **on:** August 04, 2006, 07:18:14 am »

hey, I´m worried and anxious. The reason:During a camping trip i got drunk and ended up in a tent with a girl i did not know, we never had sex, altough i fingered her. on my thumb i had a 2 mm wide cut. it was a couple of days old, but i had scratched it a little earlier the same day. I can´t rememer wether the thumb entered the vagina or not. If she had her period or not i can´t tell. The cut have healed but you can still see a kind of mark from it, after this experience, the cut still ached a little when i moved my thumb. I am 22 years old and a virgin, so this is one of my first sexual experiences. when i got hypocondric the next day, we talked a little, and it turned out i was her seventh. Her previous partner was a one night stand in south america where they used a condom a week earlier. But how can i trust a stranger? even a nice one. The days went by, and i got home. This was three weeks ago.
During the last weeks, i have felt rather numb in my right hand/ arm. Is this a common symptom? Perhaps it´s just the warm Texas climate. As i write this, my throat is also a little sore. I have a thing going on with a nice girl who lives round my´ block. I would hate to infect her. Is this even a possibility? Can i go on dating without feeling guilt? To go get tested feels a bit silly when it only comes to fingering, and i think the weeklong wait would just boost my anxiety. So please, help me.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:21:13 am »

I urge you to read the Welcome Thread on this site, particularly the lessons regarding HIV transmission.

Fingering, cuts or no cuts, is absolutely NOT a risk for HIV.

As for your new girlfriend, if you use a latex condom for penetrative sex, you are protecting both of you from HIV. And until such time as you have decided on a mutually monogamous relationship, and have both tested negative, you should indeed be using condoms for penetrative sex.

Gargamel · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:22:44 am »

yeah.i´ve read it, but it say´s there´s a theoretical risk.

Gargamel · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:28:03 am »

Quote from: jkinatl2 on August 04, 2006, 07:21:13 am

I urge you to read the Welcome Thread on this site, particularly the lessons regarding HIV transmission.

Fingering, cuts or no cuts, is absolutely NOT a risk for HIV.

As for your new girlfriend, if you use a latex condom for penetrative sex, you are protecting both of you from HIV. And until such time as you have decided on a mutually monogamous relationship, and have both tested negative, you should indeed be using condoms for penetrative sex.

so i should test my self? even though "there´s no risk"? testing myself would make this whole problem so much more anxiousfilled.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:34:07 am »

Yes, there is a "theoretical" risk. And a theoretical risk includes so many things in life that never happen but COULD happen.

Anytime you have sex of any kind with someone other than yourself there is a THEORETICAL risk that transmission could happen.

But we are telling you here what happens in the real world of HIV reality. And in that world you were not at risk in that situation.

You also need to know that becoming sexually active, as exciting as it can be, also usually stirs up anxiety about all sorts of what ifs and lots of nervous but but BUTs. I suspect that maybe an element in this situation.

In any case you were not at risk in this situaiton and there is no need for testing.

Cheers,

Gargamel · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:36:57 am »

Thank you for the calming facts, but what about my numb hand/arm?

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:38:49 am »

Quote from: Gargamel on August 04, 2006, 07:22:44 am

yeah.i´ve read it, but it say´s there´s a theoretical risk.

It also says:

Quote

there has never been a documented case of HIV transmission via fingering

My personal position on "theoretical risk" is that it's an exercise in scientific naval-gazing.

Without quantification, either in the lab, using primates/simians, or in the twenty-five-plus years of epidemiology, utilizing theoretical risk is, to be as kind as possible, an exercise in intellectual hubris.

In theory you might just be the very first person in the recorded history of the pandemic to be infected through this manner. Which would necessitate that

*you either posess a physiology that is different from almost any other human on the planet, or

*your partner carries a strain of HIV like none that science has ever seen, which is contagious rather than infectious.

On any given day, the earth is in the path of several kilograms of space dust, and several meteorites roughly the size of basketballs bounce off/are burnt up in the atmosphere. On at least three recorded occasions, people have been struck by meteorites.

And yet, there is more quantification for the odds of getting hit by a meteorite than there is of getting HIV through fingering.

I personally do not address the notion of theoretical risk because it slides from quantifiable science into scientific speculation. While intellectually stimulating, it offers zero real-world assessment, as none exists.

Gargamel · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:41:58 am »

thank you so much for your advice. I really appreciate it. don´t take me wrong, but how can i trust you guys in this?

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:57:56 am »

Well, all our risk assessments and assertions are grounded in first-tiered peer-reviewed scientific quantification. Nothing stated on this site escapes scrutiny, and requests for quantification and sourcing is not uncommon.

You are going to have a hard time finding scientific study specifically regarding fingering, even in chimp/primate study, because one of the first discoveries regarding HIV was that it does not penetrate unbroken skin. And even broken/abraded skin provides significant protection against HIV and other lentiviruses. HIV demands certain specific cells in order to infect, and only major trauma (such as amputation of the finger) would compel these cells to congregate, however briefly, at the site of the wound.

In addition, the fluids you come into contact with during fingering are NOT significantly infectious. The so-called "vaginal fluids" that are infectious to a significant degree are the deeper, cervical-uterine fluids. These fluids are not expressed from the body in sexual stimulation, but line and protect the interior of the cervical area. Penetrative vaginal/penile sex allows the urethra to come into contact with this thick mucousal fluid, which is why HIV infection can be passed from female to male.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2006, 08:44:31 am »

As to your numb hand/arm, if that condition persists you should discuss it with your doctor. Which is what you should always do when you have persistent symptom.

Of course it has nothing to do with HIV, but right now you are (mis)interpreting everything through the mindset of HIV jitters. Even though you were not at risk.

Gargamel · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2006, 08:55:38 am »

thank you so much. I appreciate and admire you both. so you would say that i can continue dating and living my life without worries (hiv-worries)?

RapidRod · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2006, 08:55:59 am »

Ten to one there is sometime during the night that you sleep on your arm. Guess what that can cause numbness in both your arm and hand, or partial numbness in your hand. The list goes on and on.

Gargamel · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2006, 09:03:06 am »

In addition, the fluids you come into contact with during fingering are NOT significantly infectious. The so-called "vaginal fluids" that are infectious to a significant degree are the deeper, cervical-uterine fluids. These fluids are not expressed from the body in sexual stimulation, but line and protect the interior of the cervical area. Penetrative vaginal/penile sex allows the urethra to come into contact with this thick mucousal fluid, which is why HIV infection can be passed from female to male.

[/quote]

hmm...i went G-spot deep...

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2006, 09:05:59 am »

Sorry, still no risk.

And having exhausted my research regarding HIV and fingering, I respectfully withdraw from conversation until/unless I discover anything new.

You had no risk.

Gargamel · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2006, 09:10:33 am »

thank you. sweet of you to calm an anxious hypocondric. I wish you all the best. what do you base your research on? and what has Ann got to say about my worries?

Gargamel · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2006, 03:43:08 pm »

Well, the Welcome Thread suggests that you should test yourself even though it was a low-risk activity. Is this a low-risk or a no-risk? And please, tell me what you base your facts on. You all seem to be HIV+ and i am impressed by your medical skills. But is anyone on the forum a doctor?

RapidRod · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2006, 03:58:24 pm »

I'm not a doctor I'm a paramedic. I don't think you'll find a doctor here, but you'll find that more of the people answering questions to be more qualified than most doctors. You still didn't have a risk by fingering, with or without a nick cut etc. Now if you don't trust us go get tested and collect your NEGATIVE result. I personally don't care, but I do know if fingering IS the only issue, you will get a NEGATIVE result.

Morgan · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2006, 04:00:56 pm »

Gargamel,

Re-read this thread. You have everything you need to know about this NO-RISK encounter.

Morgan

Gargamel · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2006, 06:33:51 pm »

thanks morgan. It would feel very comforting if Ann could tell me everything´s gonna be allright as well.

Morgan · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:10:15 pm »

Gargamel,

If you ask nicely, maybe she'll tuck you in and read you a bedtime story.... sorry, couldn't resist.

Morgan

sally · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2006, 01:39:13 am »

Hi,
I'm hiv+ and I had unprotected sex with my husband for 4 years (obviously, I did not know I was infected). He did NOT get infected. Of course, there's theoretical risk. There's a theoretical risk that my laptop will explode any minute now or Secret Service agents will knock on my door because I've been dissing George Bush so much. As far as the numbness, I've been hiv+ for 24 years, diagnosed for 18 and I know a great deal about the symptoms, etc. The numb arm has nothing to do with the fingering. The best thing to do if your fears can't be assuaged or you're obsessing about it is to get tested. It's no big deal to get the test.

Ann · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2006, 08:36:07 am »

Gargamel,

I'm taking a short break from the forums, aside from a few administrative duties.

I won't tuck you in and tell you a bedtime story, but I will tell you this - you absolutely did NOT have a risk of hiv infection through fingering.

One thing you say concerns me though... you say you are worried about infecting your "nice" girlfriend. You need to know that when you do start having intercourse, you need to use condoms. You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. I don't care who you have intercourse with, whether it's the girl next door or a highly experienced sex worker. You need to follow the guidelines I just gave you. As long as you use condoms, you will avoid hiv infection.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #22 on:** August 05, 2006, 03:09:00 pm »

Thank you Ann. even though i don´t go so far as to put condoms on my fingers, i am a condomconsumer, and i believe in responsibility from both partners. again,thank you and take care.

Gargamel · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2006, 09:17:50 am »

btw,could i have aquired any other STD´s this way? can i calm down?

Andy Velez · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2006, 09:53:16 am »

This is an HIV site and that is our focus. As far as other STDs, there are some which can be passed through skin to skin contact. From what you have described of your incident I think it's unlikely that would have happened to you.

In general if someone is sexually active it's a good idea to get a full panel of STD tests done at least annually and every six months is even better. If you have symptoms which continue to concern you that is something to discuss with your doctor.

I don't see cause for concern in what you are reporting. What I do see is a continuing pattern of "just one more question," which from my experience is more about anxiety and other feelings than anything else.

Gargamel · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2006, 03:25:01 pm »

yeah, you´re probably right...i´m just frustrated. one last question though: does symptoms appear at the same time or in stages?

RapidRod · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2006, 05:05:34 pm »

They all come at once and leave at once. They don't dwindle.

Gargamel · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2006, 07:19:22 pm »

so just sore throat and no swollen lymps or sweats would make me out of the question-infected?

RapidRod · « **Reply #28 on:** August 06, 2006, 07:38:39 pm »

You didn't have a risk and all the symptoms in the world WON'T make you positive.

Gargamel · « **Reply #29 on:** August 07, 2006, 10:52:05 am »

thanks. sorry to annoy you but other sites round´ the net are freaking me out.

Gargamel · « **Reply #30 on:** August 07, 2006, 03:41:32 pm »

why do other sites tell me that fingering with a cut is a way of obtaining HIV? That´s how i got hypo over this in the first place.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 07, 2006, 06:22:40 pm »

I cannot answer for other sites. Some places have outdated information. Other places simply have an agends which is anti-sex. Some sites have corporate entanglements which dictate their exceedingly conservative tone.

What you get from this site is risk assessment based solely on first-tiered peer reviewed scientific information. Not much of an agenda here, unless you count quantifiable facts as an agenda.

Gargamel · « **Reply #32 on:** August 08, 2006, 11:50:12 am »

thank you. so should i take the test?

RapidRod · « **Reply #33 on:** August 08, 2006, 11:52:16 am »

Now how many time do we need to tell you that you didn't have a risk? What part of "didn't have a risk" don't you understand.

Gargamel · « **Reply #34 on:** August 08, 2006, 01:20:36 pm »

Quote from: RapidRod on August 08, 2006, 11:52:16 am

Now how many time do we need to tell you that you didn't have a risk? What part of "didn't have a risk" don't you understand.

i´m just insecure. should i trust the badly programmed page with pictures of african children on it, telling me fingering with a cut is a way of obtaining HIV, or the one where a guy with a photoshopped dog as an avatar tells me to relax. Internet is just so big and it´s hard to know who to trust. i´ve also asked "dr. bob." but he has´nt replied yet...

RapidRod · « **Reply #35 on:** August 08, 2006, 01:32:43 pm »

Then sit back and wait on your 12/13 weeks and take the test. You don't want to believe us and you want to increase your anxiety by surfing the web, so just test get your negative result. But I doubt you will believe your negative result. So instead of doubting us, go test. It's your money.

Morgan · « **Reply #36 on:** August 08, 2006, 01:39:14 pm »

Gargamel,

How about the talking coffee mug?? "NO RISK". If you're unable to accept our assessments, just wait for the 12/13 week mark and test out.

You've come here for informed opinions and you've received them. It's up to you to accept or reject these opinions but, asking the same questions won't get different answers on this site.

Morgan

mckynsay · « **Reply #37 on:** August 08, 2006, 01:40:19 pm »

Gargamel,

I urge you to please read my entire post or do a search on fingering. I fingered a woman on her period chewed nails and tested negative @ 6 weeks and 10 weeks. It took me a long time to realize that I am negative. Here's how you need to think about it. What are the chances that this girl even had HIV? (probably not good) OK, and even if she HAD Hiv, what are the chances that you would contract it in this manner (zero, since it is not transmitted in that way; but I'm with you). Use this site as an educational tool, search others who went through the same anxiety as you and continued to test negative. Cause it's not a risk. Dr. Bob does NOT say fingering is a risk, people continue to use him out of context he states it is theoretical and that he's never seen it happen either. Logically think about this, how would vaginal juice get into your bloodstream???

Please read my thread and look closely at J/K's post, he does a very in-depth research on fingering. Best of luck to you. I know the experts might be mad for me posting, I'm not hijacking, just trying to help someone who was just as anxious as I was. I apologize.

Gargamel · « **Reply #38 on:** August 08, 2006, 07:32:12 pm »

thank you. it´s nice to know that i´m not alone in this silly worrying. i have had HIV worries before, most recent before this after getting bitten by a socially awkward surfer dude. but taking the test is just so scary, it makes the whole problem seem much more real than a mind-ghost. and the week of anxious wait, and the minutes before i get the answers is going to be a nightmare. am i overreacting?

RapidRod · « **Reply #39 on:** August 08, 2006, 09:01:58 pm »

Are you over reacting? Just a little bit.

Gargamel · « **Reply #40 on:** August 09, 2006, 01:17:57 pm »

during a test, how much blood are we talking here?

RapidRod · « **Reply #41 on:** August 09, 2006, 02:10:58 pm »

Oh hells bells, it might be a 5-10 ml vile or it could be a couple of drops depending on what kind of test. You are worried about giving blood for an HIV non risk test and I give 50 ml every three months.

Gargamel · « **Reply #42 on:** August 10, 2006, 09:11:07 am »

yeah, i know. but can you guys assure me my health?

Matty the Damned · « **Reply #43 on:** August 10, 2006, 09:26:43 am »

yeah, i know. but can you guys assure me my health?

No we can't and we never said we could. We give advice over the internet. As such we are naturally conservative. I object to the tone of your last post and I suggest that you are fast wearing out your welcome.

Seek the assistance of appropriately qualified mental health workers.

MtD

Gargamel · « **Reply #44 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:30:27 am »

man, that´s rough. i´m just obsessing a bit. of course you can´t assure me my health. stupid post. just worried tis all. let´s rearrange the question: "I am not in an HIV-risk, and i am worrying over nothing." do you agree?

RapidRod · « **Reply #45 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:32:49 am »

Yes!!!! Now move on with your life.

Gargamel · « **Reply #46 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:35:04 am »

do you guys agree with RapidRod?

Matty the Damned · « **Reply #47 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:36:27 am »

man, that´s rough. i´m just obsessing a bit. of course you can´t assure me my health. stupid post. just worried tis all. let´s rearrange the question: "I am not in an HIV-risk, and i am worrying over nothing." do you agree?

Rough? Well yes. What did you expect from someone who styles himself as Matty the Damned, a cuddle?

You have had no risk for HIV. You are worrying over nothing. You are wasting our time and putting yourself through unncessary grief. At least have some respect for yourself.

MtD
(Who knows about Smurfs)

Gargamel · « **Reply #48 on:** August 10, 2006, 04:55:06 pm »

so that´s it then? no risk.
Is every HIV infection documented? how can you otherwhise tell that it has never happened before? please be patient with me. i´m just worried, and i realize the sillines-level of this ongoing thread. again, thank you for your patience.

Ann · « **Reply #49 on:** August 10, 2006, 05:17:15 pm »

Gargle,

Instead of spending your time here posting questions, why don't you do some reading. There are plenty of threads on the subject of fingering and why it is NOT a risk for hiv infection, cuts or no cuts.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #50 on:** August 10, 2006, 05:30:20 pm »

hey ann, thanks for your time

yeah, i´ve checked the forum, but none of the threads seem to handle the cut-on-thumb-fingering-wet-vagina-issue.

Ann · « **Reply #51 on:** August 10, 2006, 05:46:30 pm »

Gargle,

You couldn't have looked very hard. We do have a search page on this forum you know.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=2060.msg24783#msg24783

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=310.0

And there's plenty more. Look them up yourself.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #52 on:** August 10, 2006, 06:52:43 pm »

thank you ann, i think that was exactly what i needed to calm down. I now see that i´m not the first hypo with anxiety regarding fingering on this forum. I think i need to relax more. All my life i´ve had these "i made a mistake and now im fucked for life" thoughts and experiences. I think i´m ready to settle down, get a girlfriend, and perhaps start performing yoga or something. I actually visited this clinic a couple of days ago and asked for a test, the nurse said that HIV-transmission through fingering was "unlikely". She also said that my fears probably are based on my inexperience, and i got an appointment for a test in october. She told me that if i got over my fears before then, i could call and cancel it. And right now, i don´t know what to do. I am still a bit worried. it took some time for the cut to heal even after my experience, and i´ve started thinking: perhaps she was menstruating? which would be the only way for me to get infected, if she even was HIV+ to start with. But, i think i´m getting over this. should i test? i think testing would make me anxious again. I think that the time before i get my result is going to be a living nightmare of angst. Then again, if i am indeed negative, it would be very relieving. As i´ve written before, i am a confused young man. Please guide me in the right direction.
And hey, keep up the good work. You are all doing a great job with this site, and i am very thankfull. (I am sorry if i´ve been annoying, i know i have.

Ann · « **Reply #53 on:** August 10, 2006, 07:40:55 pm »

Gargle,

You do NOT need to test. You had NO risk.

If and when the time comes where you start having anal or vaginal intercourse, use condoms and you'll be fine. Make sure you read the condom and lube links in my signature line so you know you are using them correctly. A correctly used condom rarely breaks and provides excellent protection against hiv transmission.

Use condoms for intercourse and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #54 on:** August 13, 2006, 02:58:31 pm »

You guys know i´m starting to calm down and i relaxed this week after your very calming words. but the day before yesterday, i noticed lumps under my cheek, on the right side. The so called lymphs nodes there had swelled, without any infections, cuts, or zits in/on me. And this scares me. 4-5 weeks after my incident, they swell up. Sounds like a common HIV-symptom to me. Please help me out with the facts. What are the symptoms, if you get any?

RapidRod · « **Reply #55 on:** August 13, 2006, 04:11:13 pm »

Sounds like a common HIV-symptom to me. There is not a such thing as common HIV-symptom. You've been here long enough to read that on this forum. You also know that we don't discuss symptoms. Why? Because there are NO specific symptoms related to HIV and you can not diagnosis HIV by symptoms.

Gargamel · « **Reply #56 on:** August 13, 2006, 04:23:40 pm »

yeah, but how come when i start to relax from the hiv-angst, the right underside of my cheek swells for no apparrent reason? it´s just too "oh, here we go again"

RapidRod · « **Reply #57 on:** August 13, 2006, 04:31:39 pm »

Would you be here if we charged you fifteen dollars a question? You didn't have a risk and you can do all the fearing you want, but it's not going to change our replies. If you haven't noticed we're done with your cut thumb and fingering.

Gargamel · « **Reply #58 on:** August 13, 2006, 04:42:27 pm »

yeah i understand your irritation. i can identify with it, but you seemed like you knew about the symptoms when you said that symptoms "does´nt dwindle" can a infected toe or a little cut in my mouth make my cheek-lymph nodes swell?
i can learn from this and pass my knowledge to others.

RapidRod · « **Reply #59 on:** August 13, 2006, 05:00:21 pm »

You're right, I do know about symptoms and that you can't diagnosis HIV by symptoms.

Gargamel · « **Reply #60 on:** August 13, 2006, 05:03:26 pm »

of course you can´t. but what are they? do the all come at once? do they dwindle? sometimes they don´t come at all, i know.

RapidRod · « **Reply #61 on:** August 13, 2006, 05:10:39 pm »

Do you just come here to see yourself post or do you take the time to read anything at all on this website?Let's start by you reading the "Welcome" tread and all its links. Then come back and read many of the posts, to answer your questions.

Gargamel · « **Reply #62 on:** August 13, 2006, 05:14:34 pm »

i have done so, thank you. I´m just worried i may have done a fatal mistake, which i probably have´nt but still. I guess you guys are quite familiar with the abstract angst that is HIVangst. And if you decide to ditch me from now on, it´s ok. you have given me lots helpful information. Take care, (and please, feel free to post something encouraging

Gargamel · « **Reply #63 on:** August 14, 2006, 04:11:38 pm »

man..could i be the first case of infection through fingering with my swollen nodes?

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #64 on:** August 14, 2006, 04:20:05 pm »

Quote from: Gargamel on August 14, 2006, 04:11:38 pm

man..could i be the first case of infection through fingering with my swollen nodes?

I urge you to seek professional help for what is obviously become an irrational obsession.

Ann · « **Reply #65 on:** August 14, 2006, 04:29:20 pm »

Gargle,

Please read the Welcome Thread and pay particular attention to the posting guidelines where it discusses time outs. If you continue to use this forum as a place to wring your hands over your no-risk incident, I will have no choice but to give you a four week time out.

Please consider yourself warned.

You did not have a risk of hiv infection and I encourage you to get the emotional support you need through the appropriate channels of a mental health care provider. We cannot offer you counseling here.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #66 on:** August 14, 2006, 06:32:13 pm »

has it gone this far...what could be the reason for my glands? ( then i´m outta here) love you all

RapidRod · « **Reply #67 on:** August 14, 2006, 06:41:14 pm »

Yes it's gone to far and keep your damn fingers off your nodes. Good bye!!!!

Gargamel · « **Reply #68 on:** August 15, 2006, 07:46:51 pm »

well, i guess glands does´nt do it. perhaps it was from a cut in my mouth or something...mental health care?

Gargamel · « **Reply #69 on:** August 17, 2006, 07:04:32 am »

you know,, i usually don´t get swollen lymh nodes...and they still are swollen.

Ann · « **Reply #70 on:** August 17, 2006, 07:14:12 am »

Gargle,

1. Keep your hands off your glands. Touching them constantly to see if they're swollen will MAKE the swell and KEEP them swollen.

2. If they continue to bother you, see your doctor.

3. You did NOT have a risk of hiv infection through fingering by any stretch of the imagination, therefore whatever is going on with you has nothing to do with hiv.

4. You have been told these things repeatedly. This is your final warning. Read the Welcome thread and pay attention to the posting guidelines.

5. See the appropriate health care providers, including one who specialises in anxiety and mental health. There is nothing more we can do for you here.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #71 on:** August 17, 2006, 10:40:23 am »

thank you ann! that´s exactly what i needed! i also read on another site that if and when lymph nodes swell from the virus, they all swell, not just my cheeklymphnodes. keep that in mind you other neurotic hypos out there. i know i´m extremely annoying at this point, and i just want to thank you all for your patience. you´re doing a great job with this site. i think i will get tested for this at some point in the future(just to get this off my mind permanently), and if you don´t mind, i´ll maybe post a little for support. but it´s two months left.

one last question though: can i date like before without feeling guilty for perhaps infecting my partners? ( i just need you to confirm this, i know it´s silly)

everyone, take care. continue playing safe and enjoy your lives.

i think i´ve learned something from this.

cheers

Ann · « **Reply #72 on:** August 17, 2006, 12:00:40 pm »

Gargle,

If you're using condoms, every time, no exceptions, for anal or vaginal intercourse, not only do you not have to worry about being infected, but there is no way you could infect anyone else either. Condoms prevent hiv transmission and since unprotected intercourse is really the only seriously risky sexual behaviour, you don't have to worry about hiv when you use them.

Make sure you've read and studied the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can be sure you are using them correctly. Use them consistently too and you will avoid hiv infection. Yes, it really is that simple!

And by the way, since you didn't have a risk and therefore no infection, you can't possibly infect anyone anyway.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #73 on:** August 19, 2006, 06:54:17 am »

oh, i´m gettin more anxious each day. what if i did some unprotected vaginal? i was drunk. i remember saying: "i´m glad we never did it, cause we were drunk". and a day later when i said something hypcondric she just said, "i have´nt got tested since my last encoutner, but we never did it". and i can´t say i remember doing it either, or do i? i have brief memories of perhaps doing it... and my lymph nodes ache when i run. is this common if i touch them a few times a day? yes it is. but why did they show up in the first place? i am confused and anxious and will have to wait anoter 6 weeks to gain my peace.

Ann · « **Reply #74 on:** August 19, 2006, 09:10:54 am »

Gargle,

If you were too drunk to remember, you were most likely too drunk to get hard enough to even have intercourse. It sounds like you're letting your imagination run away with you.

If you're worried about your glands, for a start, keep your hands off them. It can take a week or more for them to calm down after you've been irritating them. If they're still bothering you after they've had a chance to go back to normal, see your doctor about them. There are many illnesses that can cause your glands to swell and you could be missing something important by focusing on something you couldn't have. You didn't have a risk of hiv infection. You need to have a risk before you can get infected.

If you cannot shake the anxiety, you need to get yourself some face-to-face support and help for it and we cannot give you that here. If you continue to use this place to fuel your fears, I'll have to give you a time out to encourage you to get the appropriate help for yourself. Please consider yourself warned.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #75 on:** August 19, 2006, 09:47:42 am »

thanks ann. I have no one to talkt to about this. my parents?(i live at home) don´t think so. how do i keep my mind off this until the test in october? ( i can´t continue lying on the floor, playing earth angel on my saxophone, dreaming of all the girls i have missed out on getting infected)

Ann · « **Reply #76 on:** August 19, 2006, 10:12:09 am »

Gargle,

Like I said, get some face-to-face support. See your doctor for a referral - or if you're still in school, contact their counseling department. Your level of anxiety over this no-risk situation is way out of proportion and some counseling will help give you perspective.

In the meantime, keep busy doing things you enjoy. You do NOT need to test over this in the first place. You didn't have a risk.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #77 on:** August 19, 2006, 11:12:43 am »

the source of my worries: a doctor at a youthcare homepgage said that transmission was naturally possible if cuts were involved during fingering. i have´nt told this before. he was a doctor, but you are expers at this particular subject. i trust you, and i´ll try to relax.

Gargamel · « **Reply #78 on:** August 21, 2006, 02:37:31 pm »

what are the chances of obtaining HIV by "dipping" your penis in a vagina back and forth once or a few times without ejaculation? not that it has happened to me, i´m just curious. and i think others are as well.

RapidRod · « **Reply #79 on:** August 21, 2006, 04:36:31 pm »

Keep all you posts in your orginal thread. Read the guidelines about posting.

Ann · « **Reply #80 on:** August 21, 2006, 05:12:55 pm »

Gargle,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Dipping means actually dipping your unprotected penis into a vagina or anus and it is a risk. I think you're talking about frottage though, were genitals are rubbed together without penetration. This is NOT a risk.

Unprotected penetration is a risk. No penetration = no risk.

Ann

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #81 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:24:27 pm »

oh,too bad you did that. "worried sick" was a better name for this thread.
anyway,so you can only create one thread/user?

Morgan · « **Reply #82 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:37:46 pm »

Gargle,

Yes. One to a poster. There are some very good organizational reasons for this. This board would be unmanageable without that, and other, posting guidelines.

Morgan

Gargamel · « **Reply #83 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:44:51 pm »

thank you, i´ll keep that in mind. (as i will have to post for support when the test is nigh)

Ann · « **Reply #84 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:46:02 pm »

Gargle,

You can change the title of your thread at any time. I kept the new title so you'd know what was going on. Just go into your first post and hit the modify button. Change the title, but not the body of the first post. Keep posting anything new at the bottom.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #85 on:** August 23, 2006, 01:57:19 am »

is it true, that when nodes swell from the HIV infection, they don´t just swell at one particular spot? Dr. Bob stated this in his archives. if it is indeed true. it would be very relieving, not just for me, but to other anxious, worried souls at this forum.

Ann · « **Reply #86 on:** August 23, 2006, 06:26:41 am »

Gargle,

Hiv is an infection of the blood. Your blood flows to every point in your body. Therefore, any symptoms that occur caused by primary hiv infection tend to be general, all over type symptoms, like when you have the flu. Lymph swelling in one place tends to be caused by a bacterial infection in a specific area, such as your throat. Not everyone has symptoms of hiv seroconversion and those who do have general, non-specific ones.

The biggest cause of lymph swelling we see in this forum is people constantly touching and irritating them. Keep your hands OFF your glands.

You did NOT have a risk. Please read the Posting Guidelines found in the Welcome Thread and pay particular attention to the guideline on continual posting over a no-risk event. Please consider yourself warned.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #87 on:** August 23, 2006, 12:18:09 pm »

yeah, i´m warned. i just don´t see how a perfectly healthy guy would develop big lymphnodes under my cheek 4 -5 weeks after my NO RISK-incident. i was eating cheetos that day, and perhaps cutting my sensitive mouth with them or something...right?i don´t get this. right now i´m doing something stupid, i´m touching the glands so they will keep swollen more than 2 weeks so that they won´t be a ARS-symptom. i´ve also got hands/feet that buzz very easily these days, and i´ve had my diarrhea experiences throughout the months. anyway, consider this one of my last posts for a month or so.

Gargamel · « **Reply #88 on:** August 25, 2006, 05:23:13 pm »

i surfed around this forum and found this thread were a guy had vaginal sex for 3 minutes before pushing her off. why do you call this encounter a low risk? again-just curious, i´ve decided to learn from this while i worry. (at least i´m posting in my own thread

my lymphnodes have swelled on my left side as well( the side i have´nt touched) could a little cut in my hairline cause this? i can´t seem to figure out where the swelling comes from. scary...i can´t wait to test out.

Gargamel · « **Reply #89 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:55:13 pm »

by "swelling" i mean they´re feelable. and i can push them over my jaw. i usually could´nt do this.

RapidRod · « **Reply #90 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:59:48 pm »

See your doctor about your swollen nodes if they are. HIV is not the reason. You didn't have a risk.

Gargamel · « **Reply #91 on:** August 26, 2006, 04:22:23 pm »

yeah, i try to tell myself that. they could as well be caused by zits. should i find it calming that i have´nt had any fever? all i´ve experienced as possible symptoms is mildly sore throat, buzzing fingers/arm and lymphnodes under my cheek. (these possible symptoms makes me think that perhaps i "dipped" her in my drunken state.)

is there any threads where people with swollen lymphnodes continue to test negative?

RapidRod · « **Reply #92 on:** August 27, 2006, 03:29:32 pm »

Quit editing your post. You didn't have a risk and it's time for you to move on.

Gargamel · « **Reply #93 on:** August 27, 2006, 05:04:30 pm »

god, would i like to move on. i´d love to just forget about this and continue living, to concentrate on a good book, start hitting on girls again...
i just don´t know what to think about my weird buzzing limbs & swollen lymphnodes. and sitting here playing anxious guitar isn´t helping. your words are though. thanks for all the support. i´ll try not to post here as soon as i get worried. i´m really going to need this site while waiting for my results later on.

Boo Radley · « **Reply #94 on:** August 28, 2006, 01:27:45 am »

For the safest time, try these:

Boo

Ann · « **Reply #95 on:** August 28, 2006, 05:08:17 am »

Quote

i´m really going to need this site while waiting for my results later on.

Gargle,

No, you really DON'T need this site while you're waiting for results because you did NOT have a risk! That means you DO NOT need to test.

Did you miss my warning about continual posting over a NO risk event? This is your last warning. Read the posting guidelines found in the Welcome Thread.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #96 on:** August 28, 2006, 02:05:59 pm »

thing is, i was in a drunken state and may have dipped her in my excitement, no sex, just a possible dip, even though i doubt this myself, it is a possibillity. and i won´t post here like i did in the beginning, when i was anxious out of my mind. i´ll try to stay cool. and like i said, i would like to post a little for support when my test is nigh.

Gargamel · « **Reply #97 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:37:23 am »

i´m very allergic right now for some reason(swollen throat, red eyes, runny nose,chilly, think i might have a fever. this is too late to be ARS, right? round 7-8 weeks past exposure ( if i in theory would be infected)

Gargamel · « **Reply #98 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:29:31 pm »

i have now taken my temperature, and i have a slight fever.

ok, my possible ARSsymptoms

first two weeks, a somewhat numb arm and a slightly sore throat

4 weeks. swollen lymphnodes under my jaw.

7 1/2weeks.strange allergic reaction with runny nose, irritated eyes and slight fever. limbs seem to buzz easily.

does this seem like ARS? it just seems strange that this happens to me since my exposure that i think was a no-risk. If this was´nt a no-risk. in theory or if i actually did some vaginal in drunken state, could this be ARS? still a month until i can test out. i know you are tired of me but please give me a straight/honest answer.

RapidRod · « **Reply #99 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:40:26 pm »

Nope, ARS comes on all at once and leaves all at once if they even come at all. See your doctor for the symptoms that are bothering you.

Gargamel · « **Reply #100 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:08:16 pm »

RapidRod, thanks yet again. i would be a total nervous breakdon if it was´nt for you guys.
i have allergies quite often, but this was some kind of allergy-boost, if you know what i mean. can the virus weaken your immune system as an allergic and make you even more allergic and/or increase the power of allergic experiences?

Ann · « **Reply #101 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:52:31 pm »

Gargle,

Look mate. You didn't have a risk. It was weeks before you decided to start whatiffing intercourse. You only fingered her and if you did anything else, you would have remembered. This has gone on long enough. I'm giving you that time out I've been warning you about. It will be for four weeks. Do NOT create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be banned, no questions asked.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #102 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:55:45 pm »

hey, i´m back. bet you´ve all missed me

i´m going for a test this monday, and yeah, still pretty anxious. just a week or so after i got banned, i got the regular flu like everyone else in school with a sore throat and swollen nodes down my neck, no worries here. altough, after recovering i discovered that the nodes in my groin were slightly swollen(still are, chili peanut-size). the ones under my cheek has been rather persistant, they are smaller now but still noticable. could be from feeling them, i have tried taking weeklong breaks in the feeling but that has´nt really helped, they´re just noticable now. aaand, i´ve also got some nodes on the back of my head. also, the fingers on my left hand has been buzzing for weeks. i guess i´ll have to trust you on the fact that fingering is a nil risk. however, since i´m experiencing all this, i am whatiffing penile penetration while in drunk mode. it can´t have been for long since i have no real memories of it. i´m having a hard time retelling how my penis would feel in a vagina. and this is the tragic part. what if this is it? what if my first sexual experience, fingering and possible dipping, is also my last. i just would´nt be able to take this fact. during these anxious weeks, i have kept myself busy hanging out with friends, doing my daily routine. i have been baking a lot, very relaxing. and now, i feel like i have run out of anxiety. i just feel sad. what do i do?

RapidRod · « **Reply #103 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:01:51 pm »

Enough with the drama. You don't get infected by fingering. You can stop with the what ifing at any time. You didn't have a risk.

Gargamel · « **Reply #104 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:06:07 pm »

dude...odd symptoms and swollen nodes without apparant reasons? i know anxiety can do a lot of weird things to your body, but swollen nodes is´nt one of them. not the persistant generalized kind anyway.

RapidRod · « **Reply #105 on:** September 28, 2006, 09:24:42 pm »

Not once have you ever said that you've been to a doctor. You don't even know for sure if they are swollen. You are stuck on HIV and nothing else could be causing your symptoms. If you are really having swollen nodes, then you should see a doctor. How about lymph node cancer? Has that crossed your mine? No, you are thinking of nothing but HIV.

Gargamel · « **Reply #106 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:18:31 am »

i know what swollen nodes feel like. big almonds does just not pop up under your chin to the degree they´re thumpinng against your pillow that night. lymph node cancer causes no swelling, that´s what tricky about it. i have allergies and have also had swollen nodes before, but not like this, could constant anxiety for 5 weeks cause this? and why should´nt i be worried bout HIV when i may have had an unprotected exposure? if so,

1.what are my risks?
2.am i supposed to feel it comforting that no rashes or related, typical ARS-symptoms have showed up?
3.tingling aka neuropathy is´nt a sign of primary infection, right?

Ann · « **Reply #107 on:** September 29, 2006, 05:32:21 am »

Gargle,

The purpose of your time out was to encourage you to get the face-to-face help you need and we cannot give.

Nothing has changed from before. You had no risk.

I'm giving you another time out - this time, go see your doctor and while you're there, ask about a counseling referal so you can work on your hiv anxieties with a professional. We cannot do that for you here.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #108 on:** October 27, 2006, 12:59:48 pm »

thank god, i was negative. i won´t woo-hoo cause i know what you think of the term. i would like to thank all of you for keeping up with me during this anxious time of my life. you know who you are.
one last question though, the test was done 2-3 days before the 12 week mark. can i trust this test? don´t give me the "you never had a risk" cause i actually think i was inside her for a very brief time after all that vodka. my lymph nodes have gone down, but i still have a big one in my thigh which worries me. again thank you.

Ann · « **Reply #109 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:04:23 pm »

Gargle,

Yes, you can absolutely trust that negative result. You are hiv negative. Now protect that status by ALWAYS using condoms for intercourse.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #110 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:07:45 pm »

hi ann. thanks. i know that you want to get rid of me, but i´m really serious here. do a few days matter?

Ann · « **Reply #111 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:29:21 pm »

Gargle,

What did I just say? I said you are hiv negative. A few days do not matter!

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #112 on:** October 28, 2006, 06:39:29 am »

thanks ann. i think im ready to go on, the only fear right now is checking out my nodes at a doctor. what if it turns out it´s hiv now, when it´s been 14,5 weeks?

Ann · « **Reply #113 on:** October 28, 2006, 10:05:48 am »

Gargle,

It isn't hiv. Stop whattiffing. And keep your hands OFF your nodes. Touching them all the time to see if they're swollen will MAKE them swell and KEEP them swollen. It can take a week or more for them to go back to normal after you've been manhandling them all the time. Stop it!

Ann

Andy Velez · « **Reply #114 on:** October 29, 2006, 06:18:37 pm »

Gargamel, I don't believe you. When you say "just one more question" it just means there's another just one more coming right after that.

You never needed to be tested in the first place. That you tested negative is no surprise to anyone, I think including yourself. That it was a few days less than 13 weeks is of course totally irrelevant in terms of the accuracy of the test result.

You're just playing around here with yourself, with us, with your lymph nodes and whatever else.

It's time to call a halt on this HIV stuff. If you are having physical symptoms you must discuss them with a doctor. If you genuinely can't stop obsessing about HIV then you need to see a therapist or other mental health specialist to discuss what the emotional basis is for holding on to this unwarranted concern about HIV. Life is too short to be wasting in this manner.

HIV is not your issue. Get the help you need to resolve your concern. And that help is not going to be found here.

Gargamel · « **Reply #115 on:** October 30, 2006, 05:57:14 am »

no, really. all i wanted to know was the accuracy of a near-12-week-test. thanks for everything you´ve taught me, and may this thread be informative for other hypochondric people out there.

Gargamel · « **Reply #116 on:** November 03, 2006, 11:44:09 am »

what are the odds of seroconverting after 82 days? just wondering cause of swollen nodes, they still bug me from time to time. should i test again? i really need to know before having intercourse with my girfriend. i am not 22 years old i´m 18 and scared shitless.

Gargamel · « **Reply #117 on:** November 06, 2006, 01:29:45 pm »

went to get another test today but the doc said i should´nt, that i was reliably negative after the 11 weeks and 5 days. yet i have a lump in my thigh, and noticable nodes under my jaw. she also said that the indicator mark was 10 weeks, but that they used 12 anyway. the nodes are unexplainable and totally random, i´ve stopped touching them with the exception of a regular, gentle check every 5-7 days. i really want to let this go. but what if i do and then it shows up years later when i´ve had the chance to infect lots of women? my girlfriend, an honest virgin with birth control pills (sounds lame yeah, but thats the situation), wants to have sex with me but i don´t feel i can while experiencing these "symptoms". as you might imagine, it´s not good for our relation. what do i do? please give me a concrete answer, i feel bad for staying here so long, but blocking me won´t help, it´ll just boost my anxiety. please give me your thoughts on this, and i´ll stay away for good. i won´t need this site after that. take care of yourselves. / gargle

Ann · « **Reply #118 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:39:40 pm »

Gargle,

We have given you a concrete answer again and again. You don't have hiv.

I am giving you another time out - eight weeks this time. I'm doing this to encourage you to seek out some counseling for yourself so you can learn how to deal with your anxieties. We cannot help you with that.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #119 on:** January 08, 2007, 08:46:05 am »

hey, i feel ashamed for posting still. but i have questions that needs to be answered. Since my nodes did´nt gp down, i went to a doctor and they cheked my blood for patology or cancer. they couldnt find diddly-squat. But do they chek for hiv in this standart routine blood-tests? Now, half a year after the "incident" my nodes are still swollen. the doctor said it´s probably the nodes growing faster than my body(still a teen) but they keep changing size so i doubt it. but 82 days is supposed to be enough. i may have taken a claritin the morning during testing day, does antithistamine like claritin (loratadine) affect blood results? I hope your holidays was pleasant.

RapidRod · « **Reply #120 on:** January 08, 2007, 08:55:03 am »

No they don't and if you continue to ask questions you will more than likely get another time out or banned.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #121 on:** January 08, 2007, 09:03:41 am »

Garg, whatever is going on with you is nothing related to HIV. Leave your lymph nodes alone. By handling, squeezing, pressing and otherwise bothering them you can create a problem where none exists.

Does your school have counseling? I'm thinking some professional help would be good in helping you to deal with whatever is going on. That kind of support is beyond the scope of this site, but I do think that's what would be good for you at this point.

Gargamel · « **Reply #122 on:** January 09, 2007, 12:35:55 pm »

a doctor has told me their swollen, and i dont handle them that much. what are the rules of late seroconversion? a possible six months if you are a heroinist or have performed anal sex? or just if you´ve got a strong immune system?

RapidRod · « **Reply #123 on:** January 09, 2007, 12:50:06 pm »

Read the transmission link found in the "Welcome" thread. I believe we need to bring this thread to a close. If you don't understand the information that has been given to you by now, you never will.

Ann · « **Reply #124 on:** January 09, 2007, 04:33:27 pm »

Garg,

You haven't had a risk. You are hiv negative.

If you continue with this instead of getting the face-to-face help you need, this time you won't get a time out, you will be permanently banned.

Please consider yourself warned.

Ann

Gargamel · « **Reply #125 on:** January 24, 2007, 01:31:38 pm »

i finally went for a final test today, it has been well over 6 months since the encounter so this should be definite, sorry for all the hypochondric crap i´ve been spamming you with. the doctor´s gonna call me on my cell in a week with the results.

Gargamel · « **Reply #126 on:** January 31, 2007, 04:44:17 pm »

hey, doc called and gave me an all clear. I´m neg. May this thread show all you worried wells out there that swollen nodes and a sore throat does´nt mean diddly-squat when it comes to your status. Thank you guys, even though you hate me nowadays, you´ve helped me so much during these stressfull 6 months. Take care!

ACinKC · « **Reply #127 on:** January 31, 2007, 04:51:57 pm »

From your post to the Worried Well ears/eyes!

Congrats!

Gargamel · « **Reply #128 on:** April 17, 2007, 02:37:21 pm »

hey, did a mistake again. got drunk like last time (first time since last time as well), and just wandered around at a party, got thrown out, met a strange guy who talked what seemed like forever, went to gas station to buy gum and then headed back. when i woke up the next morning i had little punctures on my middle-finger...and now 2 weeks later i´ve got the sore throat, nodes, and feverish feeling. i have already had the flu last month. I´m, afraid that i somehow bumped into a heroin needle or somehow punctured my finger on one. perhaps the strange guy was doing heroine and i bumped my finger into the needle? really silly indeed and a very common have-i-got-HIV?-factor. so...silly as it is, what do you think? do i need to get anxious again? (need to stop getting that drunk indeed)

thunter34 · « **Reply #129 on:** April 17, 2007, 02:42:23 pm »

I'm not going to say anything but "goodbye" since you are probably gonna get banned for continuing to expect us to answer these ridiculous scenarios you keep coming back here with. We are not here to entertain you.

You need REAL psychological help.

EDITED TO SAY: Did you also consider that maybe the "strange guy" was a vampire and you might become one of the undead soon?

Enough of this nonsense already.

Gargamel · « **Reply #130 on:** April 17, 2007, 10:06:37 pm »

i´m sorry. I´ve got a fever and might let my paranoia take over. It just feels odd being afraid of this "incident" and then coming up with the symtoms from the guidelines at the correct time. Yeah, my mother think it´s silly of me as well as people don´t wawe needles around at parties but this situation is pretty weird for a hypochondric like myself. And there were like 2 or 3 marks on my finger, now a scab not likely for even a nudge of the needle, i must´ve hit something on the way home. Thanks for your time and excuse me for mishandling this site if that´s what you feel i´m doing. well, no reasons for worries then?

ACinKC · « **Reply #131 on:** April 18, 2007, 09:45:18 am »

"well, no reasons for worries then? "

NO.

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