POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: AustinWesley on February 08, 2007, 03:29:12 pm
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You know I am not opposed to any type of charity for a good cause; however, I feel this particular campaign is nothing more than a cheap marketing stunt.
I don't think the majority of Americans are aware that there is ZERO benefit to those of us in the United States who are struggling with HIV & AIDS.
I've seen a variety of commercials such as Sprint's that are really pushing the Hell out of it and just running on and on about how people can help do something about AIDS. The part they left out is that it doesn't benefit anyone here!
I'm so annoyed that I've made certain to not buy any of the products at all and tell everyone I know what a fraudulent advertising scam I think this is.
So, I'm just gona jump out on a limb here and see if I am the only one who feels that these companies are misrepresenting the facts and at very least a portion of the funds should be staying here in the US?
I believe charity starts at home!
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Yeah I am kind of irritated that some of my coworkers are feeling like they are doing a bunch of good when there are over a million of us here in the US many of whom need assistance.
The money should stay. I'm starting to believe in a little Isolationism Theory as of late. Keep it in the borders till we are all fixed up then move outside of them.
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Wesley,
I haven't seen any advertising for the campaign but I believe in responding to the pandemic globally and that hasn't happened yet. I also believe "1st world" nations should have stepped up to the plate long ago before the price-tag (in money and lives) became so high. As the richest nations we owe it to the rest of the world to help win this real war which presents a global threat far greater than Saddam Hussein ever was. If this campaign helps resolve part of the major gap in health care for people all around the world (especially if it benefits the poorest countries worst hit by AIDS) I support it. Is this the UN/WHO campaign to treat HIV, TB, and malaria?
I firmly believe no one in the USA should go untreated and will do what little I can to promote that cause just as much as the global campaign. Our situation is complicated by the unconscionable health care system that ignores so many Americans with all sorts of serious illnesses.
I understand how you feel and agree in theory but in practice I'm for making advances in all of the affected populations as soon as possible. I'll be glad to write letters to my congressional reps and senators and even Dubyah himself demanding access to healthcare for all U.S. residents.
Boo
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I actually worry that not much is being done to raise money for Aids research and to help those who are living with HIV. I tend to hear of many cancer sponsorhships and fund raisers on a weekly basis but only hear about AIDS money raising every so often. I think there is still alot of stigma and people who don't know the reality of AIDS and see it as a minority disease. It isn't until it happends to a very close family member or oneself when people begin to be active which is heartbreaking.
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Based in the UK, so obviously I haven't seen the advertising over there, but here I think it has been pretty clear who was going to benefit from the campaign. However way you turn it this IS charity. The proceeds go to the Global Fund, and that primarily helps our brothers and sisters in Africa, where the situation is truly dire, get access to HAART - how on earth does that make it "nothing more than a cheap marketing stunt"?!
Fully agree that more needs to done, including in the US, but that does make this initiative somehow flawed or unacceptable. It just means more initiatives need to get off the ground. The developed world has a DUTY to not just stand by and watch as catastrophe hits a whole continent.
I'm more annoyed about the fact that Bono (of U2), who launched and/or spearheaded this campaign, has avoided paying any taxes the past 20 years. Neither do I recall any mention of him personally donating any money to the Global Fund. But that still doesn't mean that the campaign does not serve a worthwhile purpose.
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I actually worry that not much is being done to raise money for Aids research and to help those who are living with HIV. I tend to hear of many cancer sponsorhships and fund raisers on a weekly basis but only hear about AIDS money raising every so often. I think there is still alot of stigma and people who don't know the reality of AIDS and see it as a minority disease. It isn't until it happends to a very close family member or oneself when people begin to be active which is heartbreaking.
With limited resources I think you're correct. Lance Armstrong has publically stated his plan to get the most money for cancer R & D.
I don't know anything about Bono not paying taxes or what not, but it wouldn't surprise me.
The commercials here are at very least misleading. These are American companies that make it seem as if they are doing something for the good of it's citizens.
I'd personally like to start up a campaign featuring all the people who've died on ADAP waiting lists around the country and the ones who are so desperate now.
Just for the record Americans have donated more per capita than people in any other nation.
When did we as Americans loose our Global Citizenship?
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When did we as Americans loose our Global Citizenship?
I think maybe a better question is "Why does 'the richest country in the world" have so many citizens living in 3rd world conditions?" Part of our problem is a refusal on the part of government and, by extension, us citizens, to acknowledge millions of U.S. Americans living without access to medical care.
None of the other "1st world" nations have a similar situation because they have universal health care, but you've seen how that thread has become a mass of briars.
I agree all U.S. citizens should have access to health care regardless of HIV status. To me that is the real issue and HIV is a serious component of the issue. Fighting the HIV epidemic globally, especially in poverty-stricken countries, is another issue and I can't compare the two. I support them both equally.
Boo
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Just for the record Americans have donated more per capita than people in any other nation.
When did we as Americans loose our Global Citizenship?
Sorry Wesley, but that just isn't true, at least not when it comes to foreign aid in general. The US donates more funds in foreign aid than every other nation, but it donates less as a percentage of it's Gross National Income (GNI) than every other industrialised nation:
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs
Also, nations that benefit from the Global Fund do so on a simple eligibility test based on GNP per capita.
However, I totally understand your outrage with respect to people dying on waiting lists in the US. Getting a campaign going - which might ultimately help to reform the healthcare system - sounds a great idea.
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The RED campaign is a global campaign, not a US campaign. That's why the money raised is distributed globally and the countries which need it most get the biggest share. Undoubtedly, it's sub-sahara Africa which is hit hardest. I can't see any injustice in this principle of sharing. After all, it's a global pandemic. We're in this together and I think, we positive folks know best that we need every bit of solidarity and support we can get.
Furthermore, if the RED campaign didn't raise the money, it simply wouldn't be available. It's not taken from some limited governmental budget, so it's not taken from Peter to pay Paul. There's no reason for envy.
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Wes... to me it's sad that with the current political climate, the only acceptable way to make a stand about AIDS is to say something that doesn't involve gay people or african americans. After all, that might imply the "L" word... (liberal). It's safe for Republicans to talk about AIDS in Africa and appear concerned. Too bad even that is disingenuous.
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You know I am not opposed to any type of charity for a good cause; however, I feel this particular campaign is nothing more than a cheap marketing stunt.
I don't think the majority of Americans are aware that there is ZERO benefit to those of us in the United States who are struggling with HIV & AIDS.
I've seen a variety of commercials such as Sprint's that are really pushing the Hell out of it and just running on and on about how people can help do something about AIDS. The part they left out is that it doesn't benefit anyone here!
I'm so annoyed that I've made certain to not buy any of the products at all and tell everyone I know what a fraudulent advertising scam I think this is.
So, I'm just gona jump out on a limb here and see if I am the only one who feels that these companies are misrepresenting the facts and at very least a portion of the funds should be staying here in the US?
I believe charity starts at home!
I'm sorry but i've got to say I can't believe what a selfish attitude that is. There are nearly 25 million people living with HIV/AIDS in sub-saharan africa and over 2 million people died HIV/AIDS related deaths last year alone and you are complaining that money from america the richest country in the world is going to help them. Unbelievable. Out of sight out of mind hey.
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Puck, I think you are 100% correct. Unfortunately, the gay community is considered less worthy then even people in other countries I guess!
I wasn't referring to our government giving out more money (even though they do in total), but rather our private sector. Our private donations are much higher still. I couldn't find a nice pie chart to show it, but ran across this recent article.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/11/are_americans_cheap.html
So what are these people to do who are on waiting lists literally dying? Can we ship them to the UK?
I think the biggest problem is that our media and politicians have no balls. Africa is a far off distant land they can talk about cause we wouldn't want to admit the issue of our own 3rd class citizens.
And like the other guy mentioned I'm bout tired of the next person who says OH, I got a shirt at the Gap, wasn't that good?
The problem I have with the RED campaign is false advertising!
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I'm sorry but i've got to say I can't believe what a selfish attitude that is. There are nearly 25 million people living with HIV/AIDS in sub-saharan africa and over 2 million people died HIV/AIDS related deaths last year alone and you are complaining that money from america the richest country in the world is going to help them. Unbelievable. Out of sight out of mind hey.
I really don't think what he's saying is selfish as much as he's noting the false pretenses under which the RED campaign is being conducted. Let's not forget that you live in a country where gay people are not the cause celebre for the political right wing.
However, here's a question for you. Let's assume you have no insurance and you're, say... dying. And can't pay your bills. And have no home. OK.. so will you be glad that all this money went to Africa instead of to your local AIDS organization, which recently had to shut its doors because it was politically inexpedient to pay attention to. No one is saying that someone shouldn't do something about Africa and AIDS in Africa... but please... let's not do it just because we are embarrassed by the fact that we are doing nothing at home so we have to find somewhere to prove that we care about the plight of people with AIDS. The reason why many many so-called Christian organizations funnel money offshore for fighting AIDS is very much because leaving the money in the US would help fund that nasty gay disease and those immoral gay people. Don't think for a minute that it's otherwise.
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well, the government just flew $12 billion dollars into Iraq and gave it to them. Just gave it to the government there... cash.... tons of cash.. to a warzone... didn't they ever hear of writing a check?
If those fuckers can give 12 billion to damn iraq they can pay to keep THIS COUNTRIES OWN DAMN CITIZEN's in decent healthcare. Fuck Bush and his cronies. Bastards.
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I wasn't referring to our government giving out more money (even though they do in total), but rather our private sector. Our private donations are much higher still. I couldn't find a nice pie chart to show it, but ran across this recent article.
Well, here is one from the Centre for Global Development incorporating private donations:
http://www.cgdev.org/section/initiatives/_active/cdi/_components/aid/
Quoting from that particular page: "Private giving to developing countries is higher in the U.S. than in most countries, at 10˘ per person per day. But even adding that to the 19˘ a day in government aid leaves the U.S. well short of donors such as Sweden and Denmark, which give 86˘ and $1.08 a day in government aid alone."
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Ok so Sweden and Denmark give a litte more according to that one.
Yeah, for them.
The whole basis of the Red campaign is to sell more stuff. Consumers have the belief they are making an impact in the US and they aren't.
So, I'm selfish, but you believe misleading consumers is ethical?
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Why call it the RED campaign?
Maybe AfricanExpress would be more appropriate?
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I think the reason this is all going on is very simple... the First World countries simply don't want to look at poverty and disease and say, "this is our problem, too."
It forces a nasty introspection of our "superior" institutions... and that's what we really don't want to do. It's so much easier on rich people's psyches to make it "Africa's problem."
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However, here's a question for you. Let's assume you have no insurance and you're, say... dying. And can't pay your bills. And have no home. OK.. so will you be glad that all this money went to Africa instead of to your local AIDS organization, which recently had to shut its doors because it was politically inexpedient to pay attention to.
Of course no one in America should be in such a situation but you are aiming your frustrations at the wrong cause. Being realistic how much do you think has been raised by the red campaign 10-20 million at the most i'd say. How much money has been spent on a fictitious war in iraq? 300+ billion. Take into account Afghanistan as well and the figures are staggering. Thats why you have ASO's shutting down not because someone bought a red t-shirt from gap.
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I started this thread about the RED campaign's fraudulent advertising!
The war is another issue. Feel free to bring it up in your own thread. As you've already indicated I'm the most selfish person ever and are appauled at my lack of sensitivity.
Be that as it may you still didn't answer the question posed to you from the person you quoted!
I just feel it's false adversting and Americans oughta know.
Like I said why not just have big RED AFRICAN EXPRESS cards. How popular would those be?
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I agree with you completely. It's misleading. Charity should begin at home.
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The campaign is misleading. That said, I think it's inline with a trend I've noticed all my life: when it comes to helping the poor and sick, they usually show people in other countries. Sally Struthers helping kids around the world, but not at home. I think I saw a campaign about the poor in Appalachia once, twenty or more years ago.
I think most Americans wouldn't belive it if they knew that Americans with AIDS are dying while they're on an ADAP waiting list. I don't remember seeing anything about that on CNN, but maybe I missed it.
Wesley, you have every right to be FED UP.
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Of course no one in America should be in such a situation but you are aiming your frustrations at the wrong cause. Being realistic how much do you think has been raised by the red campaign 10-20 million at the most i'd say. How much money has been spent on a fictitious war in iraq? 300+ billion. Take into account Afghanistan as well and the figures are staggering. Thats why you have ASO's shutting down not because someone bought a red t-shirt from gap.
You won't find anyone here arguing that the Iraq war was money well spent and that we, as people with HIV, have somehow benefitted from the diversion of funds from necessary domestic programs for its persecution. But, please, America the myth as seen from Europe as the richest country in the world belies the fact that America does not take care of its downtrodden and poor, and never really has to the extent that Europeans have. Heck, why do you think the American left idealizes countries like Canada and the Netherlands? So, please, remember how cuddly and warm British people felt about Margaret Thatcher and then stretch into nearly three decade. It's nice to live under several successive adminsitrations who felt that any money spent on social services was somehow an entitlement that the recipients of such services didn't earn.
So, I think a little indignation over the false pretenses of an advertising campaign designed to give the appearance of caring is really OK, especially when the need at home is pretty dire.
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So, please, remember how cuddly and warm British people felt about Margaret Thatcher and then stretch into nearly three decade.
Well, she was Prime Minister for 900 years!
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I started this thread about the RED campaign's fraudulent advertising!
In my initial response I admitted I haven't seen any of their advertising so cannot argue the point and take your word.
Like I said why not just have big RED AFRICAN EXPRESS cards. How popular would those be?
Wesley, I've never seen anything by you I considered offensive so I assume you would, ,for example, label the campaign the RED SOUTH AMERICAN EXPRESS campaign if the primary recipients were from South America? I ask that only for clarification -- sorry.
Your other issue is charity should start at home so why doesn't the USA get its act together and start helping those who die on ADAP waiting lists, etc.?
As I said, I take your word the PR for the campaign may not be specific enough about what is being funded or even misleads viewers to believe assistance goes to the USA.
I still believe we're talking about two separate issues which are equally worthy of immediate and comprehensive resolutions. Apples and oranges, no matter how we like it, because in today's world what sells, sells, and apparently no one (with any political/marketing clout or whatever it takes) has done as good a job "marketing" the USA's plight.
I guess I keep repeating the issue you raise about health care for all U.S. Americans is completely valid. The ONE campaign goal is equally legitimate. They should not be competing but there is, again, marketing and PR pushing ONE now. No one is giving due time to people in the USA who are disqualified from the ONE campaign because the USA is not a 3rd world nation.
Why don't we ask for some forum activists to advise us how we might go about starting a larger U.S. campaign to address these issues, especially for those with HIV but for all U.S. citizens. I've been meaning to post in the Activism forum about Lisa's idea of a march on Washington but why don't you start a thread, Wesley, since you're the original post's author? With momentum building for the march we might be able to attract supporters for this cause as well.
I'm sure there must be efforts by proponents of HIV affected people in the USA already so maybe we need to do a little research? I'll cover that although anyone who has any useful information, please feel free to contribute.
Wesley, to re-re-re-reiterate, I think your question is patently legitimate but I also believe in the goal (if maybe not the methods) of the RED campaign. Both groups need our support.
I have a headache.
Peace,
Boo
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Well, she was Prime Minister for 900 years!
I always thought it was B. 3000 years! It was a trick question, you know!
Boo
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I always thought it was B. 3000 years! It was a trick question, you know!
Boo
"It was a very long time!"
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I don't dispute any of those other topics or ideas here you've presented.
I wish you could see some of the advertisements so you would see how misleading they are and all the hype that goes into them.
To me this is in essence no different than other charities such as the Red Cross and many of the Katrina funds which were misappropriated. When people donate or purchase things for a certain cause be it aid for hurricane victims or for another cause I think they are entitled to know where their money is actually going.
In this case American consumers are FLAT OUT being mislead!
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Wes, it's very selfish of you to expect ethics from an advertising campaign. There are children in Europe whose idealism you might destroy.
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I still don't know why you see this as a big con it's just a quite clever way of redistributing wealth. I bet in none of these adverts does it say the money goes towards helping people in america so I don't see how it can be so misleading. You need to remember as well that this isn't a campaign in just america it's a global campaign it's over here as well as i'm sure it is in most parts of europe with all the funds going to the global fund setup by the UN. Also it isn't a charity as you seem to think it is. It's companys donating part of it's profit from red products it isn't a charitable donation from the general public. I went onto red's website and this is it's manifesto I can't see anything particulary misleading in this:
"if you buy a (red) product or sign up for a (red) service at no cost to you. A company will give some of it's profits to buy and distribute anti-retroviral medicine to our brothers and sisters dying of AIDS in africa"
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I don't think it's false advertising. Since the campaign started, it has been perfectly clear that the money raised from it was for the Global Fund (Africa). I've been to a few of the red websites and they talk about people (it's a global campaign not just in the US) making a difference in Africa. And it was started by Bono, who is synonymous with raising money for Africa.
I also take exception to the notion that Americans don't donate to HIV causes here. Every year ASOs around the country raise money from Americans to help pay for their services. I donate to one of the ASOs in my hometown (Houston's Montrose Clinic).
No matter how bad it is in the US....it's still 1 billion times better than having HIV in Africa. There is no social security income, disability payments, rent subsidies, food pantries, ASO's, HIV meds, infectious disease specialists, ADAP, Ryan White, free counseling, the internet, HIV support groups, free vaccines, flashy drug marketing with grants from drug companies, etc.
There is nothing wrong with trying to raise awareness (and money) for people living (and dying) with HIV/AIDS in Africa.
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Cliff is right on this since the alternative is that nothing is given towards this cause.
The campaign could just be buy a nice red phone for Valentines Day instead, they're trying to do something to make a difference.
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Wes, it's very selfish of you to expect ethics from an advertising campaign. There are children in Europe whose idealism you might destroy.
Yeah, no kidding.
I find it interesting that everyone is so pro RED campaign when several haven't even seen the comercials and one even defends misleading advertising as clever wealth redistribution.
No Judge, I didn't rob the bank, I was cleverly redistributing the wealth ;)
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Gap girl: Can I interest you in one of our RED tshirts madam..?
me (disoriented by colourful knitwear): "er...why?"
Gap girl, big smile: because every time you buy a RED product, we’ll donate 50% of its cost to people with AIDS!
me: "..d'you take the money off right here at the till, or do I have to apply for some sort of rebate..?"
*blank look from Gap girl*
kate :D
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... I find it interesting that everyone is so pro RED campaign when several haven't even seen the comercials...
As one who hasn't seen the commercials (and has stated it ad nauseum) I still say despite whatever their advertising campaign might be like the cause is worthwhile.
One reason I don't watch TV is I cannot stand commercials, besides the vast amounts of total crap in the guise of "news" or "comedy" or "drama" or whatever. The noise to signal ratio is far too high and TV is like a drug once you start watching it.
Like I said in my last post, Wesley, why don't "we" start a thread in "Activism" asking for others to help get a national campaign going or find those in existence and support them? You are a caring and compassionate person and your energies should be channeled into this worthy cause, not agitating against another worthy cause because their PR/marketing is typical slick crap (apparently).
I totally agree people in the USA with HIV, and any medical condition, should have complete access to decent health care. Let's work toward that goal.
Boo
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Gap girl: Can I interest you in one of our RED tshirts madam..?
me (disoriented by colourful knitwear): "er...why?"
Gap girl, big smile: because every time you buy a RED product, we’ll donate 50% of its cost to people with AIDS!
me: "..d'you take the money off right here at the till, or do I have to apply for some sort of rebate..?"
*blank look from Gap girl*
kate :D
Kate, This was absolutely PRICELESS. No kidding! Where is our discount?
Boo, I agree with ya, but any campaign of Awareness or fund raising on a large scale is presently overshadowed by celebrity endorsed propaganda like the RED campaign.
Apparently, people dying in the US isn't note worthy. Angelina and Madonna buy foreign kids and ignore the problem at home. Hell, if I had that kind of money and influence I'd buy a few kids too. I wonder if either picked an Aids Orphan? Not likely!
The RED campaign and it's celebrity endorsements are part of a larger problem in the US. The denial that we have a problem. Should we wait till we turn into Africa before we do anything to help our fellow citizens?
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This is the most ridiculous post ever. If you don't like it, don't buy it. What is there to squabble about? You're not being force into to doing anything. It's not your money, no tax dollars are being used, so what is the problem? You want a fund drive just for persons with HIV in the US, then start your own campaign.
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Wow! I'm a selfish prick and what I think is ridiculous. This coming from someone who is one of the lucky ones recieving assistance and opposes any attempt at universal health care cause he's worried about his own hide. If that doesn't take the cake I don't know what does.
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Boo, I agree with ya, but any campaign of Awareness or fund raising on a large scale is presently overshadowed by celebrity endorsed propaganda like the RED campaign.
So we just get the same or other celebrities to endorse the Red, White, and Blue Campaign! There is no conflict of interest since both goals stand on their own merits.
Apparently, people dying in the US isn't note worthy.
Sweetie-darling, that's been the case since this homosexual plague hit in the early 80s. After it started affecting "innocent victims" there was more press but that dried up in the 90s when AIDS was cured. The American public has a short attention span but when issues are raised and stay on society's radar changes can be made. It's just a matter of maintaining the momentum, as the RED Campaign is doing now.
Boo
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Wow! I'm a selfish prick and what I think is ridiculous.
You said it and you won't get me to disagree.
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This coming from someone who is one of the lucky ones recieving assistance and opposes any attempt at universal health care cause he's worried about his own hide. If that doesn't take the cake I don't know what does.
Let's not forget the other half Rod!! ;)
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BOO,
Great idea! LOVE IT! The RED, WHITE and BLUE Campaign.
Now all we have to do is convince people in America that we do have a problem.
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This is the most ridiculous post ever. If you don't like it, don't buy it. What is there to squabble about? You're not being force into to doing anything. It's not your money, no tax dollars are being used, so what is the problem? You want a fund drive just for persons with HIV in the US, then start your own campaign.
Rod,
I hope you know how much I respect and admire you but it seems to me you should follow the advice you gave Wesley. If you don't like a thread don't post in it. Antagonistic words don't help to quell the discussion and only accomplish unnecessary squabbling.
You're too good with necessary squabbling to waste time on such tasks. There must be a new post in "Am I Infected" which needs your attention!!
Sincerely,
Boo
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Ok so everyone looks after themselves as you propose who looks after sub-saharan africa then? Who looks after the 24 million people living with HIV and with no access to medication? Who looks after the 12 million AIDS orphans? The numbers are so staggering I can't get my head around them. I just think you need to get a little bit of perspective thats all. I read an article on the BBC's website not so long ago about two brothers who were orphaned by AIDS living on the streets. One brother had to go begging for food on the streets the other couldn't help because rats had been biting his feet at night so he couldn't walk. Like Cliff said no matter how bad you think it is in the US its much much worse in parts of Africa.
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You're right Boo. Thanks for reminding me. ;)
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BOO,
Great idea! LOVE IT! The RED, WHITE and BLUE Campaign.
I'm going to TM Red, White, and Blue (TM pending) immediately!
Now all we have to do is convince people in America that we do have a problem.
The facts speak for themselves. Maybe people just pay me lip service but when I talk to most about HIV in the USA they display concern and compassion, especially for people in the most dire circumstances.
There are myriad groups working on these issues at local, state, and federal levels. Let us work to use our collective strength in numbers to mount a national campaign to address and resolve the issues.
It can happen.
Boo
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Ok so everyone looks after themselves as you propose who looks after sub-saharan africa then? Who looks after the 24 million people living with HIV and with no access to medication? Who looks after the 12 million AIDS orphans? The numbers are so staggering I can't get my head around them. I just think you need to get a little bit of perspective thats all. I read an article on the BBC's website not so long ago about two brothers who were orphaned by AIDS living on the streets. One brother had to go begging for food on the streets the other couldn't help because rats had been biting his feet at night so he couldn't walk. Like Cliff said no matter how bad you think it is in the US its much much worse in parts of Africa.
Well, who looks after the people on waiting lists dying in the US? Why is it that they are able to contract for various HIV pills for 19cents a pill for those in Africa, but not in the US? I'm sure we have a couple rat bitten homeless people in the US, Hell there are 130,000 homeless in Los Angeles County alone. Are they less important than the millions in Africa?
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You're right Boo. Thanks for reminding me. ;)
You are indeed welcome, sir, and I thank you for having the integrity to post your response.
Boo
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Well, who looks after the people on waiting lists dying in the US?
Plenty of people do. There are folks involved in activism in this country, yes? Isn't this also what ASOs are for?
A bit off-topic, but why are people dying on waiting lists? Drug companies will provide HIV meds to people who are on waiting lists, until the patients receive governmental assistance. Waiting lists are bad, but nowhere near as bad as it is in Africa/Asia/Latin America/the Carribean (there is no waiting list...you just die). Chris is right, you really do need to get some perspective and balance on this issue. Millions are dying and you're upset because a few pennies for an ugly red GAP shirt is being diverted to Africa.
Why is it that they are able to contract for various HIV pills for 19cents a pill for those in Africa, but not in the US?
Because we can afford to pay more. It cost money to develop and manufacture meds and everyone can't pay 19 cents. Rich countries should pay what they can afford and not the price Uganda can negotiate to help dent an epidemic.
I'm sure we have a couple rat bitten homeless people in the US, Hell there are 130,000 homeless in Los Angeles County alone. Are they less important than the millions in Africa?
No, they are not less important (though much less in numbers). That's why there are services here available for them. It's not a zero-sum game. You can ask for money for Africa and demand that the government fully fund social services here. They are not mutually exclusive.
You make it sound like Africans are getting so much and Americans are getting nothing. Those lucky bastards! I bet everyone with HIV just wishes they were in a developing nation. ::)
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Hey Cliff,
I'm not sure how the original topic, a heated one at that, got so derailed.
I've never said that I think the RED campaign should be dismantled.
I do however feel their should be truth in advertising. The individual companies making commercials do not clearly indicate what the funds are for even though the website may.
So, there seems to be a feeling among many that misleading the American consumers is the norm and completely acceptable.
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At first the "red campaign" pissed me off too. And it did so because there are so many HERE in the U.S. that need help, and aren't we supposed to take care of "our own" first before we tackle the world's problems? Then i sat and really, really thought about all of this. OK, the "red campaign" helps those in Africa....big deal! We have a political voice, we have a voice period! WE can change things here. This is America. Don't get me wrong....i'm not holding up some stupid idealism, we have our problems and the road won't be easy, BUT we have the power to change things whereas in Africa they are pretty much powerless and poverty-stricken. So LET THE RED CAMPAIGN CONTINUE. Are we just jealous that WE didn't come up with the idea first? LOL
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Sonoma...that was hilarious, but sadly true. I pay a fortune to have my cell service when the money could go elsewhere...I have my reasons for keeping my service though. And the "can you hear me now" quote, that's Verizon's thing LOL. I totally agree though! ;)
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I can see why this campaign would raise some concerns - particularly in that is seems to direct American attention towards Africa at the risk of blotting out our own HIV/AIDS issues here at home.
However, I think that it reinvigorates both the discussion and the symbolism of this crisis - and that regardless is a positive step. At a time when most people seem to think HIV and AIDS is "so 1980s" it's healthy for us to have a new "ribbon" in this next phase of the battle.
I tout my "RED" iPod on the subway every day - and feel somewhat freed by the statement that "Yes, just like every other white young professional in a suit here, I too can have HIV."
Just my two cents.
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I understand the frustration you have about this topic and yes I agree that there should be more help to us living with the virus in the US, however I will like to remind you that until you walk a mile on someone elses shoes it is hard to have a clearer perspective. I am from another country however I live in the US for the last 16 years.
I talked to my sister who lives in El Salvador and when I told her about my condition she panic since people with HIV back there die rapidly due to the lock of help, and meds. She also informed me that hospitals and clinics don't help to get appointments for other infections and much less to get hiv meds. The goverments of third world countries like that do not want to spend money on what they call a lost cause; it goes further funeral homes refuse to prepare the body for a proper awake they just place the body on a casket and give 2 hours to their familly to have them indinerated or in the hole.
I know that we here also need help but at least even without health insurance you are still seen at the clinics and you have a posibility to pay back. One can always find a job unlike in those countries where there are no jobs available.
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lucas....EXCELLENT POINT! may god bless you and yours!
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You know it's so interesting that everyone here is just so heart broken over this country or that and yet none of you are being declined assistance. I'm sure we could locate several who have an equally pitiful story here in the US.
I'm sick and tired of everyone being "Politically Correct" and faking concern and empathy for foreigners. Like any of you would give up your personal care to help out some tribe in a 3rd world country. I'd say pretty much most of the sympathetic people here are a bunch of hypocrits. Give me a break!
Regardless of that, I do still feel that we help our own first. Just as I would help my own family first, I would help my fellow citizens first. So does that make me more Patriotic, and everyone else less Patriotic? NO! All it says is that I strongly believe that charity starts at home.
Do I feel empathy for those other nations? Absolutely! I also feel they need to work at helping themselves, just as I feel the US should be focusing on our own issues and not policing the world. But many of the issues brought up have nothing to do with why I started this thread.
I'm still not going to buy any junk at the Gap. So bless your precious souls for purchasing fashion in the name of AIDS. I'm sure it's made a tremendous help in Africa and other nations, and know that you are truly a better person for being so thoughtful when you shop! God Bless!
You can't guilt me into believing misleading advertising campaigns like RED are appropriate.
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Oh I guess it can't hurt, although I doubt it'll do that much to help. Of course the US needs to deal with its own problem...but what's new? It's not like I don't think Africa shouldn't get the aid it's receiving.
Having said that I was thinking about getting a new ipod since I broke my old one, and I just couldn't bring myself to get the RED one because it looked too much like a Target logo. Good to know my having HIV hasn't thrown my high standards out the window. :P
brian
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I'm sick and tired of everyone being "Politically Correct" and faking concern and empathy for foreigners. Like any of you would give up your personal care to help out some tribe in a 3rd world country. I'd say pretty much most of the sympathetic people here are a bunch of hypocrits. Give me a break!
What is "personal care" and why would one have to lose some in order to help a tribe in a 3rd world country? Am I willing to give up all I have to save my fellow humans? Unfortunately, no. Those sorts of acts are ultimately self-destructive unless 1. maybe you go live with the 3rd world tribe or 2. you are disgustingly rich already. (I'm not disgustingly rich but if you want to know what my net income is PM me!)... (as if). I support causes as a consumer by donating money directly to the organization as well as buying products (like tee shirts -- there are always tees available at places like the hunger site or the NRDC or Amnesty International or some other cause I might support (google "Bernard Baran" but you'll find no merchandise) and if it's 100% cotton I'll pay $10 for it because I know part of the money goes to the charity. Maybe it would be better to donate $10 directly to the charity but I'd still have to buy tee shirts, so I make a compromise).
You can't guilt me into believing misleading advertising campaigns like RED are appropriate.
Wesley, no one is trying to instill guilt but I personally ask for your compassion as another human on this planet.
You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater (you can quote me on that). I take your word that the commercial campaign is deceitful. Can't you see beyond that to the very real problems smoldering in 3rd world countries for over 25 years now, making the USA's AIDS situation look like a picnic in the park? Both of the situations are equally important to me as a citizen of the USA and a citizen of the world. Of course it's horrible that US citizens are dying, we must try to prevent further deaths. The scale of infection and illness in many poor countries is so severe that then-Secretary of State Colin Powell listed the fact as one of several global threats needing immediate attention, before 9/11 changed the world.
I may donate if solicited but it will be a nominal donation since that's all I can afford. I'd donate as much or more to a USA based campaign to provide health care to all US Americans, especially those with HIV.
Paz,
Boo
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I'm talking about HIV care. Treatment like drugs etc.
I don't think any of us aren't compasionate for their desperate plight. Hell, even Bush was shoveling another 1.2 billiion more in aid To Africa in his State of the Union. Yet, mentioned nothing about AIDS in the US.
So, I think the US has done our bit for the cause overseas while completely neglecting people at home.
And I do think all the politically correct phonies are trying to guilt me into changing my opinions about the RED campaign.
It's nothing more than a deceptive marketing stunt to snatch more money out of consumers pockets on the pretense that they are actually doing something which benefits people with HIV & AIDS here.
If all the commercials clearly indicated the money was going straight to Africa I wouldn't take issue with it. As far as I'm concerned it's fraud!
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Wesley
Earlier this week, I watched a RED campaign commercial for one of the phone companies and it very specifically stated the funds are to be used against AIDS in Africa. It was audible, slowly spoken and I believe it was backed up with print on the last image. Other companies are doing the same. Given how such campaigns typically go, I'm betting it's part of a template and/or mandate that it be noted where the funds will be directed to avoid misinterpretations and (Cliff could likely clarify this) if there's a non-profit component involved it's required that it be clear as to recipient(s) of funds.
Em
Addendum: Just went to the website and their manifesto is noted at this link. It is not a charity it turns out. Read on http://www.joinred.com/manifesto.asp
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Hey E,
I know their website. Not all the commercials indicate it. Most of the ones I've seen chant on about the "global fight against aids"
Last I looked, the United States was still on the globe!
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Hey folks,
I'm throwing in the towel. None of what we're writing to each other is making any difference. This is like a CD that skips the same 5 notes over and over until you go over to the player in an insane rage and smack it.
I'm gonna avoid going insane. We all go a little insane sometimes. A mother is a boy's best friend.
Boo
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You know it's so interesting that everyone here is just so heart broken over this country or that and yet none of you are being declined assistance. I'm sure we could locate several who have an equally pitiful story here in the US.
I'm sick and tired of everyone being "Politically Correct" and faking concern and empathy for foreigners. Like any of you would give up your personal care to help out some tribe in a 3rd world country. I'd say pretty much most of the sympathetic people here are a bunch of hypocrits. Give me a break!
Regardless of that, I do still feel that we help our own first. Just as I would help my own family first, I would help my fellow citizens first. So does that make me more Patriotic, and everyone else less Patriotic? NO! All it says is that I strongly believe that charity starts at home.
Do I feel empathy for those other nations? Absolutely! I also feel they need to work at helping themselves, just as I feel the US should be focusing on our own issues and not policing the world. But many of the issues brought up have nothing to do with why I started this thread.
I'm still not going to buy any junk at the Gap. So bless your precious souls for purchasing fashion in the name of AIDS. I'm sure it's made a tremendous help in Africa and other nations, and know that you are truly a better person for being so thoughtful when you shop! God Bless!
You can't guilt me into believing misleading advertising campaigns like RED are appropriate.
I think we could get this into the guiness book of records for being the most stupid thing ever said by a human being! Whats all this looking after our own bullshit. We will never agree on this and at the end of the day I live on planet earth and you live in america. I'm signing out of this thread before I say something that gets me banned!
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Looks like we got a visit from the drama llama!
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Boy you aren't kidding! Apparently, Freedom of Speech is only allowed if it's "politically correct".
Whew!
Say what you will and attack me personally. I'm still not changing my mind and I still think the people have been mislead by the RED campaign.
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i made a post a while back about a full page ad for the red phone by best buy and got stompled on. it stated, "buy a red phone and cure aids". cure!? talk about misrepresentation and a cheap uninformed marketing plan.
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(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e39/marsaudiacsolo/compromise.jpg)
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i made a post a while back about a full page ad for the red phone by best buy and got stompled on. it stated, "buy a red phone and cure aids". cure!? talk about misrepresentation and a cheap uninformed marketing plan.
This is just one more outrageous example of blatant misrepresentation from the RED campaign. I've seen numerous tv and print ads just like this. I do think some may have started complaining because as of just recently some of the commercials have been changed.
LOL @ Benj!
Why anyone is advocating deceptive ads is beyond me!
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Wesley
Thanks for the clarification. I've certainly not seen the variety of ads, TV and print, that you and others have. I don't disagree with the notion that we need to pay attention to our citizens' needs, but I also believe that we must contribute to the betterment of those who don't even begin to have our barest minimums: clean water, food, shelter, access to basic medications, access to hiv meds. I believe we can accomplish both.
Em
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Hey E,
My opinion is that the bottom line in false advertising is that it will hurt future campaigns. Every time one of these scandals is eventually revealed it leaves a very bad taste in people's mouths.
Without dragging up specifics there have been some really messy HIV/AIDS fund raisers which got embroiled in scandal and litigation. The result was donors stopped contributing to these campaigns and contributors were very gun shy for a long time.
So, I just believe that it should be an honest portrayal whether it's promoting HIV prevention around the world or just among a specific minority group in the US.
If you lie to the public, it can really come back to bite you in the ass later. When people find out they've been decieved it's gona leave them with a bitter distrust of other campaigns and they won't open up their check books so quickly again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me right.
Clearly, an add equating the purchase of a RED Phone with a CURE isn't accurate advertising. It's nothing more than a very deceptive marketing scam.
Wesley
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I went to buy cloths today at the Gap. Nice big sign describing the Red campaign. Tells that the money is going to be used to buy medication that will be distributed in Africa. It's not a hidden agenda. So I bought RED.
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I went to buy cloths today at the Gap. Nice big sign describing the Red campaign. Tells that the money is going to be used to buy medication that will be distributed in Africa. It's not a hidden agenda. So I bought RED.
(http://www.sweetoldbob.com/images/productred_gap.jpg)
All I bought was a tee shirt online but, even though my usual tee costs no more than $10-20 I was able to spare the remaining few dollars (even though I had to pay N.O. sales tax!). Supposedly I'm providing 41 pregnant women with nevirapine to help prevent mother-to-child transmission.
Next month I'll probably donate money in memory of a friend to a national or regional HIV/AIDS organization which provides medical services to people with HIV. It makes his mother happy and I love his Mom.
There... all problems resolved so tonight I can sleep peacefully.
Boo
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I am fed up with it...it is nothing but a marketing scheme.
Where is my check?
Besides, the crap they have branded with it is not to my liking anyway.
Jeff
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Gap girl: Can I interest you in one of our RED tshirts madam..?
me (disoriented by colourful knitwear): "er...why?"
Gap girl, big smile: because every time you buy a RED product, we’ll donate 50% of its cost to people with AIDS!
me: "..d'you take the money off right here at the till, or do I have to apply for some sort of rebate..?"
*blank look from Gap girl*
kate :D
Kate,
You have summed up my opinion on this subject to a T. This is even funnier each time I read it! ;)
Cheers!
Wesley
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/RHaines/EMOHATooFunny2HL4.gif)
You only need to read the signs in at the Gap. I didn't have a bit of trouble reading and understanding the signs, explaining the Red campaign. Africa is not the 51st state of the US. It only takes a minute to read the sign.
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it was launced a few months ago and was very clear it was for aids in affica.. I support it. they are where we were at 15 years ago. they have NO Meds.
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rumor has it the cant give away these red cell phones. if u noticed the whole marketing stragegy changed by pushing them for valentine's day w/ no mention of the 'red campaign'
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I don't think the campaign is really misleading. I understand that it goes to AIDS charities in Africa. But I do wonder to what extent the campaign contributes to a general perception that the AIDS crisis is over in places like the U.S. And I do wonder to what extent it is 'easier' for mainstream America to feel sorry for African than to feel sorry for gay men.
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I received my RED Gap tee yesterday and was pleased to find it's lightweight cotton so will be perfect for summer wear here in the big sleazy. The word "GAP" is sewn on the front so I'll probably never wear it except to walk my dogs or do housework. I hate being a walking billboard.
Boo
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Well i have to jump in late as always with my reply but i have to completely agree with you Wesley, Everytime i see that add it pisses me off that they want to use our money for Africa instead of america.
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Personally, I have not bought anything branded with the Red Crap.
I am a man who buys what he likes, not things that are attached to charity.
Jeff