POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: mecch on December 07, 2010, 03:27:16 pm
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Anyone want to join me? :(
Plutot ??? ??? ???
Why did he make such a bad case against the criminals in the big banks who created such a mess?
Why couldn't he get unemployment benefits without the tax giveaway, (unpaid for by the way)?
Why can't he just fight a little bit and make the Republicans squirm and reveal their hypocrisy?
Why does he seem like just a bagman for the rich?
And on that note, why did the Irish dump the debt on the little guy, rather than letting those international banks eat their bad loans.
Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?
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Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?
I dunno, but I suspect the Swiss banking system has something to do with it.
MtD
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Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?
When hasn't it been?
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From Roosevelt up until Reagan the rich were taxed appropriately. That's why income inequality was kept in check.
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Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?
Ever heard of 'The New World Order'?
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Ever heard of 'The New World Order'?
I thought they shut down years ago. (http://web.archive.org/web/19970720001227/http://www.nwowrestling.com/)
MtD
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@ Matty - I wish! lol
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If I were to be disappointed in anyone it would be the middle and low income people who vote Republican time and time again , this is were the problem is in my opinion .
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EXTREMELY!!!! Framed properly and started in the fall rather than 3 weeks before the end of the current congress extending the Bush tax cuts for those making over 1 millions could have been a huge victory. Obama needs to grow a set or at least borrow Hillary's!
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Add me to the list. I reluctantly voted for him in the first place. I wasn't hoping for all that much, but I'm still greatly disappointed. He makes great speeches, but he doesn't actually stand for anything, whether it's the middle class, gay rights, ending wars, or actually much else.
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I just wish Obama would ask his wife for his balls back, she has taken them hostage, and she needs to give them back to him, maybe she should have been the President, and I Voted for Mrs. Clinton go figure ::)
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Balls ain't much use if you don't have the numbers
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Balls ain't much use if you don't have the numbers
Quote For Truth.
MtD
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I'm not sure what to think. He has actually gotten a lot done while being handed 2 wars and an economy on the verge of another Great Depression. However, he seems to be too willing to compromise too soon. He made it known to repubs that he would fold on the public option and now the tax cuts. Congressman Weiner said he goes from zero to fold. I don't know why he wouldn't sign an executive order, using his powers as Commander-in-Chief and stop-loss powers, to stop all discharges of gay military personnel. I'm not sure why he didn't push the DOJ to NOT appeal the court decision throwing out DADT. I realize he doesn't have total control on what the DOJ does. This is what happened to Clinton. Reno gave the authority for a special prosecutor to be appointed and this could occur while Clinton was still in office.
Watching the news conference today, Obama says 30 million people now have, or will have, health insurance. He asked whether fighting and getting nothing would have been better. He said repubs were hostage takers and not getting something done now would have meant taxes going up for the middle-class. I am upset he didn't go to the American public about how repubs were acting like children and were blocking extensions for unemployment, funds for food for poor kids, and funds for 9/11 workers who are now sick--so that the very rich could get more tax cuts. He needs to learn how to be a better politician and not just someone who governs.
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One more thing--- He should have campaigned on what the tax cuts really mean. Many studies have shown that a large percentage of Americans believe their taxes have gone up--when they've gotten tax cuts. 40% of the stimulus was tax cuts.
In 1955, the top tax rate was 81%. The top rate now is about 36% and would have reset to 39%--where it was under Clinton when we had that great economy. Repubs want it lowered to 28%. 1955 is that era that republicans look back on so fondly...when things were so great. Besides the awful civil rights inequalities, 1955 was a good time. We built an interstate system and so much infrastructure. We had the best public schools. Now, we have bridges that collapse. We had never cut taxes during war time until Bush. After 10 years, it is obvious they didn't work. They are now extended for 2 more years--just in time for the next election. If the economy does recover, repubs will say it was the tax cuts. These tax cuts are not paid for and will add billions or trillions to the debt. These tax cuts are the new wedge issue and I don't understand why people who make 50k a year are concerned that the mega-rich would have to pay more. I'll never understand why people here in KY keep voting for Mitch. I don't understand how people think we can afford good roads, a military, and everything else, if we don't pay for it. These are the same people who complain about the debt and owing China so much money, but want unpaid tax cuts for the rich.
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I wish I lived in a land of no compromises, where the rich had no influence and you could let all banks fail without an ounce of repercussion!
Wake up folks. Life ain't that easy, especially when those that complain (present company, probably, excluded) DON'T VOTE!
Cliff
Who is very surprised a highly educated person living in Switzerland doesn't understand the importance of a sound and fully capitalised banking system to the wider economy.
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I am bitterly disappointed at my fellow citizens who thought that recovering from the last eight years would take eight months. We are a grop for whom instant gratification just isn't fast enough.
I wish Obama would make short term choices that served us well. But I think his long term choices are going to serve us best in the next decade and beyond. Any real leader has to think in these terms. I am truly dismayed that the House and Senate seem more interested in re-election and pandering than realistically, actually getting things done.
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Obama doesn't know the huge difference between compromising during negotiations and compromising BEFORE negotiations even begin. He removed the public option from health care before it was even debated; he removed legal importation of cheaper drugs from FDA-inspected facilities overseas in a backroom deal with Big Pharma before the bill was even written. Etc. Why have we seen him more agitated yesterday during his news conference than we have in two years, and his anger was directed more at the left wing of the Democratic party and his base than at the Republicans? It is truly morally corrupt to trade tax benefits for the millionaires, who don't need them, for unemployment benefits. Today is the first day of the end of Obama's presidency.
Keith Olbermann on Obama's sellout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW3a704cZlc&feature=player_embedded
Obama must not be nominated for a second term. He fooled us once during his presidential campaign with his pretty talk and must not be allowed to do so again. Primary Obama!
Howard Dean/Alan Grayson 2012!
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I have a strong feeling that Obama knew the deal before he made a single concession. I like Obermann a lot, but he seems to think that republicans and those not in power are the only ones who are given "classified" or "private" information.
I think that history will treat Obama well. I do not think the same of his contemporaries in the House and Senate, who know full well what that say in private, and do in public, are very different things.
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I wish I lived in a land of no compromises, where the rich had no influence and you could let all banks fail without an ounce of repercussion!
Wake up folks. Life ain't that easy, especially when those that complain (present company, probably, excluded) DON'T VOTE!
Cliff
Who is very surprised a highly educated person living in Switzerland doesn't understand the importance of a sound and fully capitalised banking system to the wider economy.
I didn't say to let the banks fail. But to let them return to record bonuses just one year later, without DEMS using that for political collateral? Hemming and hawing on Elizabeth Warren. An impotent SEC and scaredycat Justice Department.
I aqree with others - where are his balls? I see that Health Care Reform is a very big deal and very very promising and so forgive the lack of the public option. What galls me is that we don't know if he plays hard and aggressive politics. What is Polosi supposed to do now? Cave?
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I am bitterly disappointed at my fellow citizens who thought that recovering from the last eight years would take eight months. We are a grop for whom instant gratification just isn't fast enough.
I don't know who expected that, but the fact of the matter is that Obama made a lot of campaign promises and he has done just the opposite, especially on gay rights, defending DOMA and DADT in court for example. This is not even working in the right direction. Obama's actions have not not matched his words in many ways.
While not all the blame is on him on all issues, when he comes to his achievements like healthcare, there were just too many compromises, like lack of public option, or measures that don't even take effect for years. And none of the compromises were needed given the number of republican votes that this reform got.
Same thing on the tax cuts, no deal is needed there, they just need to expire for everybody, there was no need for compromise there, the democrats still have the senate.
I wish Obama would make short term choices that served us well. But I think his long term choices are going to serve us best in the next decade and beyond.
That may be true, but many of his choices are so long-term that they may just get repealed or reversed (eg. healthcare reform) before anyone has a chance to see the benefits. I'm not sure that history will treat him so well. Time will tell. But I do hope we get a better president in 2012.
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I didn't say to let the banks fail. But to let them return to record bonuses just one year later, without DEMS using that for political collateral? Hemming and hawing on Elizabeth Warren. An impotent SEC and scaredycat Justice Department.
Fair enough. But I'm firm believer that big bonuses, in isolation, isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's big bonuses paid for short-term gains, that is.
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A president has to have a congress who will work with him. I think Obama has been caught between a rock and a hard place, and has made decisions that may benefit more people in the long run. I mean, would we really want taxes going up on middle and lower income persons? Would we want millions losing their soul source of income (unemployment benefits)? If the Republicans aren't budging, and Obama did say the upper class tax cuts are their "holy grail," then I think Obama made the right choice to take care of more people than had he kept going against the Repubs, and got nothing done at all.
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The end of the tax cuts wouldn't have been the end of the world for employed people. The government needs money to pay its bills. Hard to believe that the Republicans would have been willing to face down millions of unemployed suddenly without (meager) benefits by explaining to them sorry, but we didn't get a tax cut for millionaires so me are making you suffer.
It was a game of chicken and Obama chickened first. Playing it safe. But the bad guy wins.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSGXe-x-E9g
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The end of the tax cuts wouldn't have been the end of the world for employed people. The government needs money to pay its bills. Hard to believe that the Republicans would have been willing to face down millions of unemployed suddenly without (meager) benefits by explaining to them sorry, but we didn't get a tax cut for millionaires so me are making you suffer.
It was a game of chicken and Obama chickened first. Playing it safe. But the bad guy wins.
You mean the RICH WIN, and always get what they want, been like this for as long as can remember, and I'm 54 yrs. old , the poor get's piece-meal and the RICH get the full course-meal, and it really matters NOT who's in charge of the country at any given time, been that way, and will always be that way ???
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No doubt Obama walked into a pile of shit when he took office. He has had several major legislative victories and stemmed an economic meltdown. It is going to take a long time to get out of this mess. However on the subject of making the Bush tax cuts permanent or extending them, I think it could have been a very winnable fight. Obama could have used the office as a bully pulpit and pushed for making the tax cut permanent for those making less than 250,000 or could have compromised and gone up to a million. Had he started campaigning for this last fall rather that waiting till two weeks prior to the end of this Congress I think he could have forced the Republicans to compromise. I will say that after listening to all the talking heads last night it does seem like there were some good things in the bill. However they are not sure they will have the votes to pass it in the House.
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I'm sure many of you have seen Sen Bernie Sanders recent speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5OtB298fHY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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For an analysis of Obama's campaign promises check out the Obamameter.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
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Keith Olbermann on Obama's sellout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW3a704cZlc&feature=player_embedded
I watched that Special Comment last night. Tonight, Keith talked about a new Gallop poll which said 66% of Americans favored extending all Bush tax cuts for 2 years. However, in a Gallop poll last month, a combined 57% favored limiting or killing cuts for the rich. A combined 61% told a Bloomberg poll the same thing.
I will give Obama until the end of his term to evaluate how he has done overall. I'm still just pissed how he seems to cave so quickly. Bohner had said, if forced, he would vote for just middle-class tax cuts. Obama gave away his hand too early. And, what did we get? Just 13 months extention for unemployment? Obama says an extention in 2 years won't happen again, because he and others will build a case against them. Why wasn't this done now! Repubs are holding up funds for 9/11 workers. I will never understand why it is so hard for Dems to point out which party is actually doing things for the common person. Dems even got new rules for gift cards to protect people from excess fees. Gift Cards!! If people don't see who is looking out for their best interests, then they are watching too much Dancing with the Stars and not paying attention. Dems play too nice. Obama needs a little of the Bush "I'll do whatever I want" attitude. Just a little..not too much.
Oh, the other thing that burns me up is how Obama and WH officials always seem willing to lecture/dress-down Dems. How bout some of that for repubs. I totally get compromise is necessary, but stand up for something. Obama may have done the right thing, but he is looking weak.
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He could have led, by example, the dems in Congress for the past year at least to be more fighting. What a pity the Dems in Congress are doubting their leader and the leader is doubting his Congress.
Obama dressing down Dems this week? Pot kettle, kettle pot.
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As I said earlier I am very disappointed with Obama this week, let's not forget that when Clinton lost the House in 94 he started working with the Republicans which really pissed off other Dems. People were predicting a term and of course we all know how that turned out. So maybe in the long run this will work out just as well.
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From Roosevelt up until Reagan the rich were taxed appropriately. That's why income inequality was kept in check.
Correction: Up until Clinton. Although he's responsible for repealing Glass-Steagall, creating banks too big too fail.
These are two insightful pieces from, natch, The New York Times:
Give Obama a Break
LINK:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/31/opinion/31kristof.html?_r=1&ref=barack_obama
How Obama Saved Capitalism and Lost the Midterms
LINK:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/how-obama-saved-capitalism-and-lost-the-midterms/?ref=barack_obama
The Republicans are brilliant at manipulating public opinion and controlling the spin cycle. If only the Democrats could catch up.
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I am bitterly disappointed at my fellow citizens who thought that recovering from the last eight years would take eight months. We are a grop for whom instant gratification just isn't fast enough.
I wish Obama would make short term choices that served us well. But I think his long term choices are going to serve us best in the next decade and beyond. Any real leader has to think in these terms. I am truly dismayed that the House and Senate seem more interested in re-election and pandering than realistically, actually getting things done.
I have a strong feeling that Obama knew the deal before he made a single concession. I like Obermann a lot, but he seems to think that republicans and those not in power are the only ones who are given "classified" or "private" information.
I think that history will treat Obama well. I do not think the same of his contemporaries in the House and Senate, who know full well what that say in private, and do in public, are very different things.
These are two of the most sensible posts I've read in this thread. People, we don't even know what goes on in our own families most of the time, yet we seem to think we have full insight in to what negotiations the president has been involved in? We say he doesn't stick up for what we want and say he needs to grow a pair? Politics is a game, and like most games, only the players are privy to the actual strategy; spectators are only aware of the final score. I observe that this man has done more to help us, the US as a whole, than the last president did in two terms. It's not like he has the Republicans working with him and fellow Democrats toward a common goal.
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These are two of the most sensible posts I've read in this thread. People, we don't even know what goes on in our own families most of the time, yet we seem to think we have full insight in to what negotiations the president has been involved in? We say he doesn't stick up for what we want and say he needs to grow a pair? Politics is a game, and like most games, only the players are privy to the actual strategy; spectators are only aware of the final score. I observe that this man has done more to help us, the US as a whole, than the last president did in two terms. It's not like he has the Republicans working with him and fellow Democrats toward a common goal.
Of course we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, we can only comment on what we see and by all appearances he turned over and got screwed quicker than many of us on here do. Yes politics is a game but this game doesn't involve opening a mystery date door or winning the most money or killing the most bad guys, it effects our lives. I believe he has done many great and good things in a very short time, however I think he got killed in this deal especially from a PR standpoint. And I know we need more politicians that do what is right for the country and not interest of polls and PR, but if he continues to appear like he is caving and then comes out spanks the bottoms of his base Michelle best be looking for a place in Chicago for that vegetable garden.
I mean look Republicans got their extensions for all tax payers and yet in those negations that led to that he couldn't even get seniors a meager extra $250 next year. And if he gave in on the tax breaks in order to get the START treaty back on track, then he is in greater politic trouble than what it appears.
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Cases he could have made, in front of Congress, and in speeches to the Nation:
1) Trickle down theory has been proven false. The rich getting richer doesn't help the average Joe.
2) If Republicans insist on their tax breaks, they should reconcile that with their concern for the deficit, and propose what they are willing to cut. They should have been forced publicly to list their proposed budget balancing choices based on reduced tax revenue.
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I do like that the unemployment benefits are stimulus. So why not go further. Most economists seem to think the stimulus package was too small. So the unemployment could be increased 50%. Wow, instead of 1200 a month they could get 1800! And, plow a 100 billion into a public works. Tell the Republicans they can have their tax breaks for the rich if they can figure out a way to also fund a 100 billion public works stimulus that immediately employs several hundred thousand people.
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Finish the job in New Orleans and help it be repopulated with poor folks, oh, and give them jobs.
Find a solution to the decay that is Detroit.
Collect the BP billions and spend them.
A decent modern public transport that compares to other advanced industrial nations?
How about affordable public higher education. Whats with graduating from State with 50 thousand in debt?
These days, its just nonstop crushing on the average Joe. Nickling and diming people in a country of fantastic wealth and productivity.
OK Obama got the barest minimum of money for the umemployed but does 1200 a month sustain a family. Its the system that created these unliveable wages that needs nonstop attention and high priority. Otherwise America is doomed.
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http://costofwar.com/
1.1 trillion so far.
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Mecch, perhaps you should become one of his political advisors. That is the strategy that i think he should have employeed in a BIG DEAL kinda way all fall. Take that Air Force One plane fly all over the country giving speeches, appearing on tv talk shows, give press conferences, a national address or two just hammer away at those who oppose his policies.
Right now he is in a pickle with this Tax Bill. The House Dems in a caucus vote (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts) have rejected the bill as is and the Minority Leader cannot or will not guarantee complete Republican support. Looks to me that Republicans are saying what they want before going behind closed doors and coming out with pretty much what they want.
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I'm sure views such as mine are considered campaign bullshit, pollyanna frosted gumdrop naive.
But there is that figure 1.1 trillion - and what did we get? I guess you can be cynical and say wars are "stimulus" spending as well. Is this not what Eisenhower warned about? Perhaps total war is the cynical solution.
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In the article from yahoo that woodshere linked Pelosi is quoted as saying, that a House-passed bill, which Republicans blocked in the Senate, did not include "a bonus tax cut to millionaires and billionaires." Considering she and her husband would be one of those paying higher taxes I think it's great she said that.
I wonder how many of those Republicans who insist on the tax cuts for the wealthy are doing so because of how it affects their own personal tax bill?
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I wonder how many of those Republicans who insist on the tax cuts for the wealthy are doing so because of how it affects their own personal tax bill?
Ding Ding Ding....I would bet all of them!
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These are two of the most sensible posts I've read in this thread. People, we don't even know what goes on in our own families most of the time, yet we seem to think we have full insight in to what negotiations the president has been involved in? We say he doesn't stick up for what we want and say he needs to grow a pair? Politics is a game, and like most games, only the players are privy to the actual strategy; spectators are only aware of the final score. I observe that this man has done more to help us, the US as a whole, than the last president did in two terms. It's not like he has the Republicans working with him and fellow Democrats toward a common goal.
I totally agree D. The Republicans in the Senate have said NOTHING would be done unless and until they got their tax cuts through (and they've done just exactly that). So I think President Obama made a calculated decision to compromise. I wish they had been able to muster the votes to only extend the cuts for the bottom 98%, but the votes just weren't there. In the House yes, the Senate no.
And as someone who just recently experienced what it's like to have someone unemployed (for a year) I can tell you first hand the unemployment extensions were absolutely necessary.
So while I had wished for something better, it is what it is.
RAB
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I totally agree D. The Republicans in the Senate have said NOTHING would be done unless and until they got their tax cuts through (and they've done just exactly that). So I think President Obama made a calculated decision to compromise. I wish they had been able to muster the votes to only extend the cuts for the bottom 98%, but the votes just weren't there. In the House yes, the Senate no.
And as someone who just recently experienced what it's like to have someone unemployed (for a year) I can tell you first hand the unemployment extensions were absolutely necessary.
So while I had wished for something better, it is what it is.
RAB
I totally concur and maybe now it is too late for him to grow a pair. Since his election I have been a huge supporter. However I think the outcome we have now would have been different for the tax issue and the election had the fight been in the fall instead of now. And looking at the election could it have gone any worse than what happened had he showed some spine at that time.
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I totally concur and maybe now it is too late for him to grow a pair. Since his election I have been a huge supporter. However I think the outcome we have now would have been different for the tax issue and the election had the fight been in the fall instead of now. And looking at the election could it have gone any worse than what happened had he showed some spine at that time.
I don't think it would have mattered much even in the Fall, everyone knew the way the mid-terms were going even before it was over, so it wouldn't have made a difference at all.......
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Tom Buffenbarger, Machinists Union president, predicted two years ago, during the Presidential primary (the union supported Hillary), what a fake and incompetent politician Obama was (and would be). More of us, including myself, should have listened to him and not been swayed by Obama's flowery (and, we now know, meaningless) oratory. Buffenbarger, in retrospect, has proved himself to be the greatest political prophet of our time. The last few minutes here are particularly relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKJVHjZVD60
Obama fights back from his Dojo of Democracy! Learn from the master of political arts. Mark Fiore's animated cartoon:
http://www.markfiore.com/
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Wow great character assessment there!
(Though the crack about latte-drinking trust-fund college kids is a low blow cause that's hardly the typical college kid nor the typical Obama supported. And I would be reasonably sure Obama went through on financial aid himself.)
I love union based populist politics. It's mystifying how the Republicans hold 50% support when they have long abandoned the working man in policy. Clinton's free trade was one of the monkey wrenches that has left the Democratic party so scattershot when it comes to living-wage policy. Non union less than full time service jobs aren't cutting it for the lower middle class and the poor. And knowledge economy bread winners put out to pasture before retirement - how's that working out?
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I don't think it would have mattered much even in the Fall, everyone knew the way the mid-terms were going even before it was over, so it wouldn't have made a difference at all.......
I guess I am watching way too much MSNBC!
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I see the recent Obama tax cave more as a deal in a bid to have a chance in 2012. Repubs gave Obama more unemployment insurance; he gave them their tax breaks. Both got a payroll tax break. Obama gets his back-door stimulus.
The House Dems don't like the estate tax breaks. That's where it seems the Repubs got a bit more than the Dems.
To have a chance in 2012, Obama needs to somehow keep ginning the economy. I don't think people (except Bernanke and most economists) realize how fragile the recovery is.. and that globalization is speeding along faster than ever. We just can't compete on wage rates.
IMHO we need to debase the currency and inflate our way out of debt. The real value of earnings power falls without lowering salaries drastically. It brings us closer to par with the rest of the world. The pain is borne by rich and poor and happens over a few years, not all at once.
If we take the austerity route the Repubs want us to take, the poor get flattened and the rich get richer. Pay attention to those riots in Europe. They aren't taking to the streets for nothing. Unfortunately, poor Americans are like skittish mice... run and hide, grin and bear it.
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globalization is speeding along faster than ever. We just can't compete on wage rates.
Disagree -- depends on what is being manufactured. Germany has a huge export economy and high wages, lots of unions, etc.
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and that globalization is speeding along faster than ever. We just can't compete on wage rates.
IMHO we need to debase the currency and inflate our way out of debt. The real value of earnings power falls without lowering salaries drastically. It brings us closer to par with the rest of the world. The pain is borne by rich and poor and happens over a few years, not all at once.
I agree with MIss P.
The US is never gonna compete on making cheap consumer junk, cause of wage rates. But countries still manage to export and keep living wages. Living wages are legislated, industry businesses and services aren't going to deliver them, necessarily, on their own.
Granted, it would take a pretty huge change in mindset for such changes in the US.
The high progressive income tax that killed the Gilded Age came as a shock to the powerful and rich in the US. Isn't it telling that when rates fell after WWI, for several years, industry vastly expanded but then also the stock market eventually collapsed. But the Great Depression terribly hurt average people, who were not in the stock market. Remember, there was 25% unemployment.
Progressive taxation rates rose again and WWII and strong unions delivered the US into the golden years of the American Dream (er. white...)
You have to wonder if for China and India etc to get rich, the US has to get poorer. Spain Portugal and Ireland got European Level rich and it was all a sham. Greece can't seem to tax any of their rich citizens to justify development it saw over 15 years.
In the absence of really obvious ponzi schemes, where people loose real money forever, these big bank ponzi schemes seem to always benefit the rich of the world, while occasionally rewarding and then beating the average folks. Average folks in Ireland and average folks in the US are bearing the brunt of what the banks wrought, banks that have been protected from having to put the losses back onto their own upper management (or in the case of investment banks, pretty much all their employees) and their richest investors. OK retirement funds of average workers are in these big banks, and we wouldn't want to lose them too, but the objective isn't to tax the corporations and rich out of existence. Just enough to keep greed and legal ponzi schemes in check.
It seems to me the only way to compensate such messes is to not believe any hype about trickle down, or corporations needing lower taxes, and legislate enough taxation on corporations and income taxes on wealth to protect the majority of the citizens. It's only fair. It's not like investment bankers have a choice to suddenly do some other career if their tax rate goes up. What else can pay nearly as much??? Its not like the very rich who don't even need to work will suffer if their tax rate goes up some.
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Obama started out as a well spoken "new guy" with lots of high idea promises, most of which were and are "fluff" or in the advertising/ legal world better know as Puffery..... anyone that really thought he could wave his magic wand and "change Washington" was delusional....he is a light weight politician and now has to deal with political reality....from both his Democrats and the Republicans...... who got what is not the real story here, the real story is how is business done within a framework of conflicting ideas and solutions to national priorities..... energy policy, trade agreements, federal vs states rights, are and should be the top priorities of the Congress and the President.....diversions to supporters of Ethanol,various Farm subsidies, tobacco lobbies , the NRA and other specific interests just pollute the whole discussion of priorities
Nick
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Frankly I have no idea why anyone is surprised that there were "promises" not kept. Obama is a politician after all. He didn't get where he got because of a solid record of getting things done, hell, he didn't even get to the W.H. with a long record of winning elections. He got there because he picks good speech writers, delivers them well and is a master at marketing. I give him credit for some of the things he has done, mainly making a first-step improvement to our Health Care system.
The problem with Washington is not the Dems, not the Repubs. It is quite simple, there are damned few in Washington who actually want to solve any problems beyond how do they win the next election.
Mike
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Most of the :professional" Politicians will freely admit that their purpose in Washington is Primarily to "represent" their Constituents a good translation of that is to "bring home the bacon" any way they can.... over the years I have seen consistent speeches extolling how much each of the candidates have "done for you" in their reelection bids when approaching the locals and the locals freely put their wants to the candidates .....
I have seen and participated in many political "polls" ( thinly disguised pleas for money) that seem to show the "hot topics are not the major issues" but the "HOT" topics get a lot more headlines than the plea for rebuilding bridges or new roads or a new VA hospital ..... which usually end up as some sort of "earmark" ... and a great topic for the next meeting with the locals....
the latest hub bub about extending the "tax cuts" was/is a great way to really tack on all the BS stuff that they couldn't get funded otherwise....the most egregious in my mind is the triple funding for ethanol..... a huge expenditure that benefits very few people and costs so much to everyone else.. also the other "farm "subsidies disguised as for "family farms" but in reality goes overwhelmingly to major corporations
such is Politics in Reality terms you have to give to get....
Nick
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Germany's government follows the Japanese model of protecting and nurturing start up industries. They also have an exceptional educational system and a well-regarded industrial apprentice program. It doesn't hurt that they also have a more homogenius population (albeit likely to be more loyal to local brands, although probably not as loyal as the Japanese).
The US seems intent on free trade, even when it is to our disadvantage. Those industries where we do provide significant protection and/or subsidies, are quite successful global competitors; namely the pharmaceutical and agricultural industries.
Unfortunately, we can't even seem to have the wherewithall to properly fund and nuture the green energy industries. China and Germany have already surpassed us in solar panel manufacturing.
US corporations have no allegiance and the US government fails to provide any incentives to do so. This is very unlike Germany, where companies are incentivised to keep jobs at home. Germany has not permitted the disembowlment of its manufacturing sector. The US did and nobody even blinked so long as we were getting cheaper goods. Unfortunately, we can't easily turn this barge around.
So what we're left with is naked global capitalism. Unless we begin to radically change our economy, we can't compete based on costs... much from our high wage rates. China is already mounting a huge push to move up the value added ladder. Even small town hospitals have fired all their American radiologist night staff and moved it to India ... to save on labor costs. First manufacturing, now the service industry. Best advice... become an auto mechanic or a plumber.!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellation_d'origine_contrôlée
Yes, get employed on any product or service that has the equivalent prestige of AOC - as long as this prestige holds up. For example, hopefully for the French, luxury goods will only merit their value if they continue to be manufactured in France. A Rolex in Switzerland. Etc. But so many consumer products - nobody in the US really cares, or if they do care, they don't have a choice anyway, anymore.
Here in Switzerland there is still a value on a Swiss product and the enough people are willing to pay, but its gradually wearing down. Ikea put alot of middle class homefurnishings out of business, for example, and the big players had to pay copycat - cut prices and manufacture in China. Swiss and German big appliances still sell well, but how long will that last.
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I'd be loyal to American / US brands if it were really possible. A Chevy from Canada or Mexico is not a US product, but is a Toyota built in Kentucky or California? Buying a Canadian Chevy will help GM, but it won't directly benefit US auto workers. That Kentucky-built Toyota was built by US workers but benefits a non-US company. The last CRT-television I bought was an RCA, a US brand and was assembled in Mexico in '93. RCA's a few years later were Asian-built and had cold solder issues (poor quality control). What can we buy that's built / assembled in the US now? I'd feel better about buying a TV from Mexico than I do with one from China, but that's not an option now.
Besides some clothing, furniture, foods, and a few other items (not including pharmaceuticals), what items' production haven't been sent to Asia? The other side of that is, besides being built here, the quality has to be comparable. 'Made in Japan' has long been associated with high quality, but 'Made in China' hasn't. 'Made in USA' used to be fairly common and associated with quality, but both points have pretty much slipped (except for a few specialized items).
We, the US, must have some sort of incentives to keep jobs in the US (to benefit us as a whole), not farm jobs out to cheaper labor so that a select few stockholders and executives can increase their personal incomes. That's partially what got us into this mess to begin with. 'Trickle down' my ass... more like 'trickle away.'
(edited for typos)
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The politicians sold us all out, and they continue to do this with free-trade and outsourced jobs, they did this for their own benefit as they do everything else, the average politician has NO idea what it's like to live on less than 10K a yr. and we all know that NONE of them would even be able to live like this, or know how to do this
but yet, we elect them thinking they are for us, actually they are only out for themselves and whatever their own agenda is at the time, the whole system is one big scam after another, but yet we keep voting for these ass-holes, GOP, DEMS it really matters NOT, but most people are too busy just trying to survive and best they can, and are totally oblivious to what's really going on here ???
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A couple of years ago I was read the riiot act here cause I poo-pooed WalMart. I really do get that if one has a limited budget, you gotta buy what you can afford. But WalMart workers get the shaft for insurance and salaries. And WalMart played hard ball with so many manufacturers over the years - they wouldn't stock the product if the price wasn't cut - cause "that's what the Walmart consumer wants". I've read so many articles over the years of sad sad stories of one after another American manufacturer having to open Chinese production because Walmart insisted on cheap prices. Walmart is so pervasive, many consumers don't even have the choice to pay more for something American.
I remember the story of Etch-a-sketch. Socks. Pickles.
Its encouraging that the whole foods and "organic" foods market is growing and big volume supermarkets are trying to supply more local. China grows organic food too, so we all have to be careful to try just a little bit when possible to buy local products when we can afford it. I know tonight in the supermarket in switzerland, there was fresh asparagus from Peru. When i go to the budget supermarket, they have all sorts of canned and jarred goods from China now. 10 years ago, a lot of that budget stuff in the Swiss stores was from Eastern Europe - jams and sauces and honey, etc. Now they have 2 kilo bags of frozen mixed vegetables, but from China.
Switzerland is opening the market to European products that have the same name as Swiss products but not the same quality. For example, lots of families buy this fruit syrup that you mix with water to make a beverage, kids love it. But the Swiss one is triple the percentage of fruit as the European, and now by law both can be sold under the same name and even Swiss supermarkets can manufacture their store brand syrup in Europe at a lower quality. But the price isn't proportionally lower. In other words, the consumer is saving pennies and getting ripped off much more on quality.
At least for the moment, I'm happy at least there is a choice of products in Switzerland, Germany, France, I'm not forced to buy Chinese, if I can afford not to.
Two years ago I went to a Coach outlet in Vermont and was saddened to note that a lot of the labels said "made in China." I guess the quality is still good but whats the point of Coach being expensive if its produced at Chinese labour prices with Chinese material? Same thing at the Brooks Brothers store. What the fuck? Only suckers could pay for this bait and switch. I made a point to search high and low in the US for a pair of American made Wranglers. ::) I'll occasionally buy the name brand but chinese made goods but only on SUPER sale because that's the only price that seems to make sense.
Irony of ironies, first Levi's opened an outlet here, now Wrangler and Lee and they are passing off Wrangler's (and all chinese made) as an American luxury product.
The last time I was in Cairo, there were some egyptian owned boutiques selling high quality clothes made with Egyptian cotton. Which is what so much of the luxury stuff used to be made of. I thought it was just great. It was pretty expensive, but cheaper than retail of stuff like LaCoste and Polo. I got a couple of polos that have aged beautifully - in fact like a Brooks Brothers shirt used to in the 70s!
A Swiss quality old brand white t-shirt can be 100 bucks - what the fuck? Some of the department stores have "fair trade" developing world products that are cheaper and pretty good, though, thank god.
I can't afford to buy retail Swiss linens which are still pretty good so I buy vintage stuff that is just wonderful. It is possible to make a fine product in China. I hear they are very serious about producing foie gras and champagne (which they won't be able to call champagne, but if its quality stuff, it'll sell!). Mac is all Chinese now, isn't it?
Oh, what does this have to do with Obama. I guess we lost the thread. It was Clinton who set all this up and I suppose it wasn't an evil decision, but the fruits of the switch are kinda of rotten. Any President, Republican or Democrat, and Congress, has to pull up their shirt sleeves and find some creative solutions for this mess.
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Oh, and yesterday I broke a big vintage pyrex covered casserole. So I stopped at the thrift shop, shifted a bit in the bins, and found two pristine vintage replacements.
I think Pyrex still produces some in the USA. Only the French and the Americans made this stuff for so long, and a bit the English. Duralex still manufactures in France, too. I collect Duralex bowls and dinnerware. The manager of the thrift store said he routinely destroys bins of this stuff because nobody buys it. Half of it is perfect, no scratches, and some is easily 50 years old now. If its cloudy or iridized, chances are it was destroyed by dishwashers. Progress!
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Oh, what does this have to do with Obama. I guess we lost the thread. It was Clinton who set all this up and I suppose it wasn't an evil decision, but the fruits of the switch are kinda of rotten. Any President, Republican or Democrat, and Congress, has to pull up their shirt sleeves and find some creative solutions for this mess.
I know NAFTA was a Clinton-era deal, but I don't think it's really related to China. That seems to be 'market-driven' i.e. companies find an even cheaper workforce than Mexico - China. We all know corporations have got to take care of a few (stockholders and executives) at the expense of many (actual workers).
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I think Obama is doing the best he can, in a BAD situation (Repub. dissention). I was glad to see him at the press conference call them out on the tax cuts for the wealthy being their "mantra, or holy grail". If we had a little more PLAIN speaking, and calling people out, and a little more Democratic idealism "pushed" as an agenda....I think we'd all be better off. Of course, I live in a red state; the word "Liberal" is literally considered a derogatory term, and used freely here in negative political ads, etc.
I just wish Prez O would channel Harry S Truman a little bit more.....
;)
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No, I'm sorry, but Obama is NOT doing the best he can. In fact, as with so many other promises he made during his campaign for President, he's either doing nothing or the opposite.
One of the policies he campaigned on was to revise the devastating U.S. trade agreements. So what does he do? As we type this, right now, he's pushing Congress to approve KORUS, which is George Bush's (!) initiated NAFTA-like trade agreement with South Korea. It is estimated that this will result in the loss of over 159,000 U.S. jobs over five years. Gee, I wonder who supports this:
http://leftwingnutjob.blogspot.com/2010/12/obamas-nafta-style-korea-dealwhats-in.html
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Let's see
- rescued the banking industry (taxpayers scheduled to be fully repaid and maybe make a profit))
- rescued the US auto industry (ultimate cost may be nothing)
- stopped the great depression part II (thank you George W. Hoover II)
- the largest amount of medical research funding grants ever
- universal health coverage (on about the same delayed timetable as the start up of Social Security)
- reform of credit card and debit card rules
- overturn unfair Supreme Court decision on women's ability to sue for pay discrimination that they don't find out about right away
...
oh, and repeal of don't ask, don't tell, another extension of unemployment benefits, reductions in nuclear arms ...
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I have to agree with Alan. I believe Obama is truly doing the best he can, and more, with all the accomplishments Assurbanipal listed above. In fact, if you look at everything he's done, he's really done a lot. All politicians have their bad moments, that's just how it is. But the alternative (McCain) would never have done as much. We gotta give the man his due.
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I agree with Assurbanipal. Obama has had the Most Successful presidency since Franklin Roosevelt. Surely there's nobody who thinks it's possible to achieve 100% success given the party-of-no (Republicans) having the ability to filibuster or otherwise stop legislation at will? Do you think McCain (or god forbid, Palin) would have been better? Does anyone recognize the historic successes Obama has led DESPITE inheriting the worst economic conditions since the depression and two wars? Wake up people and recognize it's impossible for any President to be successful on every issue - they aren't monarchs with limitless powers.
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Let's see
- rescued the banking industry (taxpayers scheduled to be fully repaid and maybe make a profit))
- rescued the US auto industry (ultimate cost may be nothing)
- stopped the great depression part II (thank you George W. Hoover II)
- the largest amount of medical research funding grants ever
- universal health coverage (on about the same delayed timetable as the start up of Social Security)
- reform of credit card and debit card rules
- overturn unfair Supreme Court decision on women's ability to sue for pay discrimination that they don't find out about right away
...
oh, and repeal of don't ask, don't tell, another extension of unemployment benefits, reductions in nuclear arms ...
Well said. He's a president, not a magician; things won't change at the snap of his fingers. Just because a policy change / repeal, like that of DADT, doesn't have immediate changes should come as no surprise. If they did, he'd then be accused of rushing things without having proper policies, procedures, etc in place. This would not be good, as everything takes time to implement.
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According to what I heard on the news last night, Obama has accomplished 80% of his campaign promises. Of course accomplished is a relative term. I was disappointed on the tax bill, but since that passed a great deal has been passed in this lame duck session.
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Let's see
- rescued the banking industry (taxpayers scheduled to be fully repaid and maybe make a profit))
- rescued the US auto industry (ultimate cost may be nothing)
- stopped the great depression part II (thank you George W. Hoover II)
- the largest amount of medical research funding grants ever
- universal health coverage (on about the same delayed timetable as the start up of Social Security)
- reform of credit card and debit card rules
- overturn unfair Supreme Court decision on women's ability to sue for pay discrimination that they don't find out about right away
...
oh, and repeal of don't ask, don't tell, another extension of unemployment benefits, reductions in nuclear arms ...
I would also add to your list the elimination of the travel ban on visitors who are HIV +
All in all I think Obama and this congress have accomplished a great deal. The next two years will be entirely different obviously, but that's politics.
One last thought, I'm actually proud to call myself an American again, something I wasn't feeling with Bush.
RAB ;D
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I would also add to your list the elimination of the travel ban on visitors who are HIV +
All in all I think Obama and this congress have accomplished a great deal. The next two years will be entirely different obviously, but that's politics.
One last thought, I'm actually proud to call myself an American again, something I wasn't feeling with Bush.
RAB ;D
Same here, and I wonder how our 'national image' has changed... I assume it has based on comments non-US people made after O won the election.
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Same here, and I wonder how our 'national image' has changed... I assume it has based on comments non-US people made after O won the election.
It's changed a bit where I live, but a lot of the bad feelings persist.
I'm not quite as embarrassed to admit to being American as I used to be during the Bush years, but I don't think I'll ever be as proud as I was when I was a naive kid before I found out how many atrocities the US government has been responsible for through the centuries - such as the Trail of Tears just to name one.
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As long as the US continues to police the world and think they have some sort of mandate to interfere in foreign affairs as if they were breaking up a fight between children (very condescending) there will be a lot of ill will toward America.
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I am not disappointed in President Obama, because for the first time in eight years, I know that my president does not hate me, nor desire to enshrine discrimination against me, for being gay, in the Constitution. From my view in Montreal, I am starting to see the America that really matters, reemerging. As I watch the legislation that has passed, I cannot miss the fact that so much of it is to help the middle class. You can complain about tax breaks for the rich, but without agreeing to them, millions would lose their unemployment insurance and there would be no tax breaks for ANYONE. The fact that he and the Democrats have accomplished so much, in less than two years, is very impressive.
I believe that more Americans need to start paying attention to what is really happening in Washington and that President Obama needs to keep highlighting exactly who is blocking legislation and why. I cannot begin to tell you, how the Republicans looked, by denying the 9/11 health care funding, from the outside. Our friends are amazed at the heartlessness of Republicans and how Americans could vote them back into a majority. A lot of people look at America and wonder why we continue to vote in legislators, who no longer care about the will, nor the reality of the average American. I often wonder the same thing.
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I think Obama is the man!
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ09USrMcBzA0W4NSMhUhNaTCMNX6Viy6e6oJ2aEBIy3XnO8AY-)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuvnhvIO6752_puogsMjGA04O0qNcCKIWqnnJ5knB8uZyeEcRv)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTX7MbQhCbpApFM_QXBnsoNaM9ZSCPlWRXTJsbiz2atnCkazAHUCg)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgqaHd4uc3-dSGhPs2vHI6YJUi7b-un5jPImbNbijogZDwd-ne)
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Our friends are amazed at the heartlessness of Republicans and how Americans could vote them back into a majority. A lot of people look at America and wonder why we continue to vote in legislators, who no longer care about the will, nor the reality of the average American. I often wonder the same thing.
Here in the south where I live the middle and lower income people overwhelmingly vote Republican , they vote for the very party every time that never does a damn thing that's in there best intrest .
Is it something akin to Stockholm syndrome that makes these people identify with Republicans ? I really would like to see a comprehensive study done as to why people support candates that do nothing to help them .
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Here in the south where I live the middle and lower income people overwhelmingly vote Republican , they vote for the very party every time that never does a damn thing that's in there best intrest .
Is it something akin to Stockholm syndrome that makes these people identify with Republicans ? I really would like to see a comprehensive study done as to why people support candates that do nothing to help them .
I believe that part of it, is that most people really do not care about many things, nor will they actually do some research when picking candidates to support. I get my news through world sources now and without being fed the non-stop pablum of Faux News, you really know what is happening and why. I remain perplexed how people can actively support Republicans, when under their rule, the middle class has steadily lost ground for three decades. Saddest, is that millions vote for their own misery but there is no law that says you have to think.
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I think Obama is the man!
Well of course he is, but, I'm a little perplexed with Mrs. Obama she looka lika a man, I know a few drag queens that look way better than her......just kidding here and having some fun ;D
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You know, there are things I wish the president had done differently.
But, I could say that about any president, some more than others.
Bill Clinton, whom I like, came up with "Don't ask, don't tell," which I have always hated. But, it was a stepping stone to allow President Obama to finally do away with anti-gay discrimination in the military. Before DADT, gays and lesbians simply were not alllowed in the military and were courts martialed and often imprisoned if they were found out.
Would I like to have seen more done by President Obama? Well, maybe, but I also have to be realistic. He was handed a country bitterly divided and in the throes of an economic crisis that was devastating in its scope.
On top of that, he was handed two wars which were growing increasingly more unpopular, and a jobless rate that was exacerbated by "free market" corporations sending jobs overseas where labor is cheap, then expecting us top buy their knockoffs at full price so they can afford another summer home or a few more million dollar bonuses.
The republicans had basically screwed us until we bled and then left us on the side of the road to die. Mr. Obama has had a hard road to travel to bring us to where we are.
I also agree with others who said they simply don't understand those who are marginalized or economically downtrodden supporting republicans, who at best are soulless, and at worst don't care about anything or anyone but themselves - unless they can make money by paying attention to them.
OOPS, my socialist roots are showing.
HUGS,
Mark
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I cannot begin to tell you, how the Republicans looked, by denying the 9/11 health care funding, from the outside. Our friends are amazed at the heartlessness of Republicans and how Americans could vote them back into a majority. A lot of people look at America and wonder why we continue to vote in legislators, who no longer care about the will, nor the reality of the average American. I often wonder the same thing.
Joe, I've been dealing with that for the past 20 years. It's just mind-boggling. And the more funding that is taken away from education, the more this is going to happen. Who (in my living memory) was the person whose campaign promise was to cut the budget and cut it from education? Regan. That man who refused to utter the word AIDS. Who votes (in the main) for the republicans? People who have a poor education. There is no other explanation. It's a viscous cycle. Republicans in office = poor education. Poor education = republicans in office.
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I am posting an editorial from today's New York Times, regarding President Obama and the lame-duck Congress.
New York Times
Lame Ducks Triumphant
By GAIL COLLINS
Wow, we’re getting a new nuclear arms control treaty for Christmas. I know some of you were hoping for iPads. But still, big news.
Good work, White House! Thank heavens we got rid of our former president, Barack Obama, who couldn’t even get the trade agreement he went all the way to South Korea to sign. Our current president, Barack Obama, would never let that happen, and, in fact, came up with a really excellent trade agreement with the South Koreans just the other day.
“Administration officials have bent over backwards to try to solve every problem that’s come up,” said Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, one of the Republicans who reached across the aisle to get the New Start treaty with Russia ratified.
The treaty, which needed a two-thirds vote, was actually approved 71 to 26. The Democrats did not have to go scrambling madly around looking for one last vote. And even the opponents were winners since they got to spend more than a week beating up on the Russians, revisiting the golden days when life was simple and wars were cold.
“They cheat. They are serial cheaters,” said Senator James Risch of Idaho, the author of my favorite unsuccessful amendment to the treaty. It would have made the entire groundbreaking nuclear-reduction program contingent on the return of four American Humvees that the Russians picked up during their conflict with Georgia. Risch hauled out blowups of one of the enslaved military vehicles, shouting: “You can watch your property right here being towed away by the Russians! Back to Moscow!” If the former Red Menace wants to “hold hands and sing ‘Kumbaya,’ ” he added, “Well, that is fine. But give us back our stolen military equipment.”
When was it that the singing of “Kumbaya” became a shorthand for weenieness? “Kumbaya” is an excellent campfire song, especially for groups that border on tone-deafness and don’t know the words to anything. I remember singing it in Girl Scout camp with friends who emerged unscathed and became conservative Republicans. Some may be writing letters protesting the New Start treaty at this very moment. Please, give “Kumbaya” a break.
But I digress. Nothing, not even Humvees in chains, was going to stop the progress of what has recently become known as the “hard-charging lame-duck Congress.” It is a perfect image, with its suggestion of a flock racing along in the clumsiest manner possible but still stumbling over the finish line.
“When it’s all going to be said and done, Harry Reid has eaten our lunch,” said Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who called the hard-charging lame duck “a capitulation in two weeks of dramatic proportions.” This is the rapidly evolving new hyperpartisan Lindsey Graham, who was so ticked off at the fact that the Senate was devoting a mere eight days to the treaty that he told the antitreaty obstructionist Jon Kyl of Arizona: “I want to apologize to you for the way you’ve been treated by your colleagues.”
His Start-supporting fellow Republicans appeared quietly unrepentant. Perhaps they were afraid that if they said anything in response, Graham would continue his evolution into awfulness right there on the Senate floor and start gnawing on the ankles of elderly legislators.
Good work, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry. We appreciate the way you’ve evolved from one of the world’s worst presidential candidates into an extremely useful senator. Unlike some unsuccessful presidential candidates we could name.
Good work, Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana, the lone Republican who stuck with the treaty through thick and thin and never mutated into a scary new entity.
Good work, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Unlike your hapless predecessor, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, you’ve had legislation shooting off to the White House like angry birds in that video game. Unemployment compensation! Gay rights! Food safety! Judicial appointments! Arms control! Health care for 9/11 responders!
But let’s admit it. Nothing would have gotten done if Obama hadn’t swallowed that loathsome compromise on tax cuts for the wealthy.
If he’d taken the high road, Congress would be in a holiday war. The long-term unemployed would be staggering into the new year without benefits. The rest of the world would look upon the United States as a country so dysfunctional that it can’t even ratify a treaty to help keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists. The people who worked at ground zero would still be uncertain about their future, and our gay and lesbian soldiers would still be living in fear.
It’s depressing to think that there was no way to win that would not have involved giving away billions of dollars to people who don’t need it. But it’s kind of cheery to think we have a president who actually does know what he’s doing.
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Funny, a politician is elected, gets into office and plays politics. I can"t believe it. ;D
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It's changed a bit where I live, but a lot of the bad feelings persist.
I'm not quite as embarrassed to admit to being American as I used to be during the Bush years, but I don't think I'll ever be as proud as I was when I was a naive kid before I found out how many atrocities the US government has been responsible for through the centuries - such as the Trail of Tears just to name one.
Yeah, I greatly enjoyed Winston Churchill's secret gassing of the Kurds in 1920.