I've Got A Little Bone To Pick

[thunter34]

I gotta say I'm not too keen on this current policy of letting the "neggies" or "unknowns" (or rather, as the case increasingly seems to be, the "nah nah - I'm not saying and you can't make me" bunch).  There's already a policy in place regarding the Worried Wells confining to AMI, but there's a big loophole that some folks  (often with dubious intentions) are using to skirt around this.  Increasingly, we're seeing posts crop up in OT, Nutrition, Research & on and on. 

So what's my problem with this?  Well...it feels kinda invasive, to be honest. This site is theoretically supposed to be primarily a place by and for us - The HIV Positive.  There's already been a forum established where people who "are here for loved ones" can post...the Someone I Care About Has HIV forum.  I'm seriously struggling over this because I hate to come off totally exclusionary; however, it really seems that a certain unscrupulous few seem bent on abusing the leeway afforded to them.  We routinely open up about some of the most intimate aspects of our lives on here, and many of us go well above and beyond in that arena in the interest of perhaps furthering an air of empowerment and destigmatization amongst our peers.  How do I say this?  I guess I would say that allowing folks to just post all over the place and willfully skirt discussion of their own HIV status comes off as invasive in the same way as some of the women might feel about men posting in their forum, or perhaps the members posting in the LTS forum.

Given the intensely personal nature of a site such as this, I'm wondering what the perception of others is here. 

DISCUSS.


/edited for typos/

[TicTicBang]

Jeez-us christ.

[thunter34]

Jeez-us christ.

Case in point.  This is a serious topic I've just tabled for the other HIV+ people of this forum, and the very first post is this.  Thank you for stepping in to illustrate exactly what I'm attempting to communicate.

[TicTicBang]

Xenophobia is a fear or contempt of that which is foreign or unknown, especially of strangers or foreign people.

[1] It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "foreigner," "stranger," and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear."

The term is typically used to describe fear or dislike of foreigners or in general of people different from one's self.

As with all phobias, a xenophobic person is aware of the fear, and therefore has to believe at some level that the target is in fact

a foreigner. This arguably separates xenophobia from racism and ordinary prejudice in that someone of a different race does not

necessarily have to be of a different nationality. In various contexts, the terms "xenophobia" and "racism" seem to be used

interchangeably, though they have wholly different meanings (xenophobia being based on place of birth, racism being based on

ancestry). For example: to dislike a black person from France because they are French is xenophobic, but to dislike them because

they are black is racist.

For xenophobia there are two main objects of the phobia. The first is a population group present within a society that is not

considered part of that society. Often they are recent immigrants, but xenophobia may be directed against a group which has

been present for centuries. This form of xenophobia can elicit or facilitate hostile and violent reactions, such as mass expulsion

of immigrants, or in the worst case, genocide.

The second form of xenophobia is primarily cultural, and the objects of the phobia are cultural elements which are considered

alien. All cultures are subject to external influences, but cultural xenophobia is often narrowly directed, for instance at foreign

loan words in a national language. It rarely leads to aggression against individual persons, but can result in political campaigns

for cultural or linguistic purification. Isolationism, a general aversion of foreign affairs, is not accurately described as xenophobia.

Additionally, in the world of science fiction, xenophobia may refer to a fear or hatred of extraterrestrial cultures or beings.

[Miss Philicia]

I'd say it's most people's assumption that such posters are confined to "Someone I Know" or "Am I Infected" and that generally they don't know that's not the case. I have to add that, until lately, this was not a huge issue for me but lately I'm feeling less inclined to feel "safe" -- and if there's no safety zone here on a poz forum then what is the purpose?  That's ultimately the goal, isn't it?

Let's think in real life situations.  If this was an actual HIV support group running you would not probably encounter this situation.  At least I have not in the four HIV support groups I've attended over the course of 15 years.

[thunter34]

Tic, you are spamming my thread and utterly underlining the point I am making.

[Miss Philicia]

Safety zone: DENIED

[TicTicBang]

Tic, you are spamming my thread and utterly underlining the point I am making.

thanks for reverting from you original avatar and quote that you started this thread with in a n obvious attempt to continue a witch hunt.

[TicTicBang]

To start on this subject, the number one thing I would consider, a stop to objectifying assuming.
Typically it gets persons off on the wrong foot.

[thunter34]

thanks for reverting from you original avatar and quote that you started this thread with in a n obvious attempt to continue a witch hunt.

Yes, dear.  You are indeed correct.  This situation reminds me very much of similar situations.  The avatar was promptly removed in the interest of not appearing to single out any one particular poster.  You, of course, swooped in on it immediately and have been working ever so diligently since to derail it. 

And my goodness, you certainly are quite adept at moving around these forums for someone so new. 

Why....one might almost think you've been here before.

[water duck]

i do think you are quite RIGHT, Tim.

NOW i am wondering TicTicBang who you might be, you have not wanted to admit to your status down at Nutrition, now , you are here !!

Your writing style remind me of someone who use the name of Suntropic or something;
everytime , hecame here, it is like the 'circle' had came to town !! WITH ONE  purpose to shoot down 'anything' that 'move' .

i shall wait for your next move, oh , don't worry , sweetheart, i do have time and patience !!

Wd

[TicTicBang]

nope never had an account on these board before.
Assuming again.
Forum boards are not much different from one another.
And I frequent many, and am much loved.
Thanks for you concern, but posting a thread about a supplement shouldn't cause  alarm.

Yes, dear.  You are indeed correct.  This situation reminds me very much of similar situations.  The avatar was promptly removed in the interest of not appearing to single out any one particular poster.  You, of course, swooped in on it immediately and have been working ever so diligently since to derail it. 

And my goodness, you certainly are quite adept at moving around these forums for someone so new. 

Why....one might almost think you've been here before.

[TicTicBang]

OMG you guys, queens whatever are quite the characters.

i do think you are quite RIGHT, Tim.

NOW i am wondering TicTicBang who you might be, you have not wanted to admit to your status down at Nutrition, now , you are here !!

Your writing style remind me of someone who use the name of Suntropic or something;
everytime , hecame here, it is like the 'circle' had came to town !! WITH ONE  purpose to shoot down 'anything' that 'move' .

i shall wait for your next move, oh , don't worry , sweetheart, i do have time and patience !!

Wd

[thunter34]

To start on this subject, the number one thing I would consider, a stop to objectifying assuming.
Typically it gets persons off on the wrong foot.

Not quite sure what "objectifying assuming" is, other than poorly constructed english.

Typically, what gets a person off on the wrong foot here is such an obvious attempt to be subversive.  It creates an air of suspicion and mistrust.  

Look:  I am attempting to table a reasonable discussion here about something that I feel is a legitimate issue.  I am NOT interested in participating in any flamewars or "witch hunts" with you.  As said before, this thread is not about YOU.  It is a discussion of the issue in a broader sense among my peers.  I'm stepping away from discussion with you because I have no intention of allowing you to get me dragged down or to invalidate this thread.  I will reserve my replies to my peers...the upfront ones.  You, of course, can freely post here - as is your right.  However, it would be one small step toward showing some form of class and respect if you would bow out and let us discuss it.  

kthx

[Teresa]

Well I'm one of those neggies. When I first came here there weren't all these different forums like Someone I care about, positive women, Long-term, and I just tested poz. Since I was married to a poz guy who had no interest of learning anything about HIV, I posted any questions, concerns, and if i needed to vent I did it in the Living With. Everyone was so nice, kind, and caring. I truly don't know how I would have made it without the help of everyone here.

If I have a question about hubby i do post it in the someone I care about. Just seems like not many read that so I don't get as much information as I did before when it wasn't here. I only post replies in the Living with and those are mostly birthday threads or if someone is ill and the hospital. I don't post in the positive women because I'm not positive, but if I want to say something to someone about a thread I will pm them.

I'm sorry you aren't feeling as safe here.

Hugs
Teresa

[GSOgymrat]

Why would someone who is not HIV+, or very close to someone who is HIV+, want to hang out in AIDSmeds forums?

[water duck]

Teresa Dear,

There is no need for you to feel that way as you came here with a pure heart , to share and help;  we will certainly feel safe in your presence.

david's remarks were not meant for  you.

[thunter34]

Well I'm one of those neggies. When I first came here there weren't all these different forums like Someone I care about, positive women, Long-term, and I just tested poz. Since I was married to a poz guy who had no interest of learning anything about HIV, I posted any questions, concerns, and if i needed to vent I did it in the Living With. Everyone was so nice, kind, and caring. I truly don't know how I would have made it without the help of everyone here.

If I have a question about hubby i do post it in the someone I care about. Just seems like not many read that so I don't get as much information as I did before when it wasn't here. I only post replies in the Living with and those are mostly birthday threads or if someone is ill and the hospital. I don't post in the positive women because I'm not positive, but if I want to say something to someone about a thread I will pm them.

I'm sorry you aren't feeling as safe here.

Hugs
Teresa

And see...there again:  Teresa.  A fine example to me of someone that I'm happy to share the forums with.  

Listen, I'm tabling this for discussion of the broader issue of forum boundaries and how safe do people feel.  I have nothing but good things to say of you, Teresa.  

And you raise a good point about traffic and volume of responses in Someone vs. Living With.

Though it has started roughly, I'm hoping this thread might veer back into a civil and honest discourse.

And I appreciate your contribution to this thread.

[sharkdiver]

OMG you guys, queens whatever are quite the characters.

interesting comment

[thunter34]

In respect to Teresa's post, I think this portion of the OP bears repeating.

I'm seriously struggling over this because I hate to come off totally exclusionary; however, it really seems that a certain unscrupulous few seem bent on abusing the leeway afforded to them. 

[Winiroo]

Back to the original question...


I honestly had not thought too much about the status of those who where posting on the site. I understand and validate your concern. It seems very legitimate to me.

To be honest I was naive enough to think that the vast majority of posters where people who where either HIV positive or very close to someone who was. It never occured to me that someone out there who is not positive or in some relation to someone who is would want to spend time on a site for persons with HIV.

Makes no sense to me.
I wouldn't want to spend time on a forum devoted to the love of pig intestines or amature toe poppers or ebola virus aficionados.

If I where to ask a question about a HIV related problem I was having how would I know if the persons responding to my post where people responding with the intent to help not hinder?

I guess the only reasons I can think of for a person who would linger on a site that has nothing to do with their life is either they get a kick out of being a pain in someones ass or they have a strange, possibly sick attraction to the subject.


I donno...


Wendy

[Miss Philicia]

I guess the only reasons I can think of for a person who would linger on a site that has nothing to do with their life is either they get a kick out of being a pain in someones ass or they have a strange, possibly sick attraction to the subject.

Oh, I can think of reasons.  All it takes is one HIV-positive person to do someone wrong (for whatever reason) and if the other person is mentally stunted they can easily take this out on all positive people -- especially on the internet.

[Winiroo]

So if I went on a murderous rampage it would be your fault too ? LOL

 

[Ann]

Jeez-us christ.

OMG you guys, queens whatever are quite the characters.

I'm suspending your account until this can be discussed with the other moderators.

Ann

[thunter34]

Temporary thread Amtrak:  Winnie, you look MARVELOUS in your latest avatar.

OK.

Resume.

Seriously...this is a tricky issue.  For one, just as with the Positive Women's Forum, it's somewhat illusory to think of it as a "private" space for women since anything posted is freely viewable on the whole of the web.  That said, there is some merit to the notion of having a reserved space for discussion solely among one's peers.  Whatever it takes to promote as much of an honest, free flowing dialogue as possible.  

What I'm hearing from some (and feeling on occasion myself) is a diminished sense of this on the forums as a whole, and I'm not quite sure what (if anything) can or should be done about that.  Is it a situation where posting policies might need to be reevaluated?  Would that really help?  Is it really so much an imposition brought by difference in HIV status, or is it more to do with a sense of invasion brought on by the perceived abuse of this freedom by a certain few?

[BT65]

Well Timmy, that is one of the reasons why I don't post often about physical things that happen to me.  I don't want information with someone who doesn't have first-hand experience.  I also don't like the idea of having non-HIV+ people doling into threads where those of us with HIV are. 

It's the same in my going to NA meetings.  There are some meetings that are open-where anyone can attend.  Then there are closed meetings-open only to addicts.  I would feel extremely unsafe putting out details that I wouldn't think someone would respond to with genuine interest of heart. 

I don't know what's going to be done about this-if anything.  I'm not going to say much else.  I guess I've gone a tad overboard already today.   I know I would feel much safer if the discussion was felt to be genuine, rather than fishing for something, putting out useless information, etc. 

Teresa, I've never felt anything but respect for you, just for the record.

[Winiroo]

Temporary thread Amtrak:  Winnie, you look MARVELOUS in your latest avatar.

Thank you, we try...On occasion.

[sharkdiver]

I'm sorry to hear you have a little bone. And why are you picking at it?

[minismom]

Ok, small hijack.  Sharkie, poor timitation has to pick his own bone because Betty and Queen have abandon him.

Back on track:

Wow, I'm not sure what to say.  I'm negative and have never pretended otherwise.  And, I do post in a lot of different forums. I was only trying to get information to help my jr. pozzie and, in turn, found friends. Honestly, I've never thought about it being an issue.  Maybe I need to rethink things.  When I first started posting, I did PM Ann or Jan, sorry, I can't remember which, and asked where I could and couldn't go.  I was told and have stuck to it (except for posting in the women's forum - shame on me!).  I certainly never meant to upset anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable. 

I do understand where you are coming from, hun.  There are folks that go lurking and posting (and PM-ing) where they shouldn't.  But, from what I've noticed, the moderators have done a good job herding them back to their proper places.

Mum

[Ann]

We have quite a few well-loved and well-respected hiv negative members of these forums who are welcome to post where they want.

I for one, do not think it unreasonable to expect hiv negative members to declare their reasons for being here. Many have perfectly good reason. Blathering on about privacy issues doesn't cut it with me either. Respect is the order of the day and we have many members who achieve this aim.

However, if you have doubts about a member, please don't start calling them out in a thread yourself. That's one of the reasons why these forums have moderators. It's our job to do that, not yours.

Eh. I just had to get that off my chest. It is what it is.

Ann

[Ann]

I need to clarify what I meant by "privacy issues"... I was speaking of when member declines to reveal their hiv status.

Ann

[Assurbanipal]

I gotta say I'm not too keen on this current policy of letting the "neggies" or "unknowns" (or rather, as the case increasingly seems to be, the "nah nah - I'm not saying and you can't make me" bunch).  . . .So what's my problem with this?  Well...it feels kinda invasive, to be honest. . .

.

We have quite a few well-loved and well-respected hiv negative members of these forums who are welcome to post where they want.

Going back to the original post, I wonder if the issue us really about negative people posting, or about people who are unknown to the group posting? As a relatively recent poster myself I have to say this feels a bit personally endangering to say -- one of the problems is that we new folks feel we get to know you old timers because we read the forums before we joined -- but you don't know us from Adam. 

But if it is really about unknown people rather than negative people posting it seems like that could be addressed by having a discussion on how to make an entrance, and maybe by adding a discussion of etiquette for joining (introduce yourself in a thread, etc. . .) to the registration process, or barring that, adding it to a welcome thread.

[MOONLIGHT1114]

I have run into this situation as well, Timtation.  What has happened with me is that a so-called "pozzie" aka "oh, I'm waiting for results" started PMing me a while backl.  I basically ignored the person, but often wondered why they didn't EVER tell us what was going on with labs, status, etc.

Its after they withheld this info (that we all tend to share so freely here) that I became a little concerned, and somewhat irritated.  I don't answer those PMs anymore, but I also haven't received one in a little while.

I guess the only thing we can really do is just take Ann's advice and report anyone who becomes a problem.

I wanted you to know that you're not alone, I feel ya.  Usually it just comes down to someone being disrespectful to others in the threads, but I won't mention any names.    Those people have enough baggage of their own to deal with, lol.  

*Assurbanipal~  You posted while I did.  Yes, I believe it IS this "unknown" that makes us somewhat uncomfortable.  At least that's how I feel. 

~ Cindy

[Snowangel]

I know what they say about assuming- but I think Minismom and Teresa , for example, can assume they are welcome in the different forums of this site.  They deal with HIV and its issues or non-issues on a daily basis and can benefit and provide support for whatever is being discussed. I see what Thunter is saying as far as the people who are negative and have no positive associations.  I am relatively new here but I thought like Win why would you be here, if you weren't positive or living with someone who is?
 
Snow

[Ann]

.
Going back to the original post, I wonder if the issue us really about negative people posting, or about people who are unknown to the group posting? As a relatively recent poster myself I have to say this feels a bit personally endangering to say -- one of the problems is that we new folks feel we get to know you old timers because we read the forums before we joined -- but you don't know us from Adam. 

But if it is really about unknown people rather than negative people posting it seems like that could be addressed by having a discussion on how to make an entrance, and maybe by adding a discussion of etiquette for joining (introduce yourself in a thread, etc. . .) to the registration process, or barring that, adding it to a welcome thread.

My take on it is that it is the people of unknown STATUS who tend to rankle. When a new person comes in and says "hey, I was diagnosed in XXXX and here I am" - everyone can relate to one extent or another. It's when people turn up and start posting without revealing if they're neg or poz that tends to bring out the wary-radar in established members - especially when they seem to be HIDING their status.

This IS a forum primarily for people who live with hiv on a daily basis, whether they are hiv positive themselves or if they have a loved one who is hiv positive. People who don't fit this criteria come off as people who might be here for the side-show guffaws. That's how I feel about it anyway. Just because I'm a moderator here doesn't mean I don't have feelings too.

Ann

[Queen Tokelove]

Thunter Bunny--

I can definitely feel where you are coming from. But like you and the others, I have no issue with Theresa or Mum, I feel like they are the exception to the rule. As for others who are neg, well, I never look much into it other than maybe they are trying to educate themselves on HIV and what better place to come than here?

I agree with you on the part about them starting threads that may make no sense or their question has been answered and they insist on finding another way to ask the same damn question. That really irritates me to no end and where I say that, the moderators have the patience of saints. Being the smart ass that I know I can be, there is no telling what I would say.

On the being safe on what to share, well, since I am blogging, anyone can what I share so it is up to me to be selective on what I choose to discuss. I know being here maybe you feel you shouldn't have to be selective but then like someone said, it is open to the world web but then sometimes you just come across some asses.

*minor hijack*---Mum, Thunter Bunny deserted me way before I deserted him. Please refer to my post in the NOT DEXTER thread... I still loves me some Thunter Bunny even if he won't let me live out my freaky fantasy.

[thunter34]

Well, I have to say a tremendous THANK YOU to everyone who has posted in this thread since my last post.  You have brought it around to what I was trying to get at so, so much better than I was doing.  Cuz see...there's another one:  Mum.  I love Mum and completely embrace her posting and taking full advantage of everything these boards have to offer.  And knowing her background, I would absolutely support her use of these forums. 

I said earlier this was a tricky thread to initiate.  Boy howdy.  I'm afraid some have been unintentionally caught up in the wheels of it.  To those, I whole heartedly apologize if this thread has made you feel unwelcome.  (Namely Mum and Teresa, but I imagine others will surely come to light.)  I do not apologize for the thread on the whole, however, because I think it's pretty clear I wasn't alone in this perspective & there really was something to be thought over and discussed.  I think the true area of unease centers, as has now been better clarified, more on those who are not forthcoming with their status or what draws them here. 

So to everyone who has posted just above, I offer thanks.

Except to Sharkie...who is evil and must be destroyed.   

I'm sorry to hear you have a little bone. And why are you picking at it?

[Ann]

(Namely Mum and Teresa, but I imagine others will surely come to light.)

Nadine... and I'm sure there's others.

Except to Sharkie...who is evil and must be destroyed.   

Um, nope. No way. He's the bi-pretzel fantasy-god of some of us here. Don't you dare harm a hair on his head!

Ann
(who should be in bed, dreaming of salty things...)

[Queen Tokelove]

Now when you gonna let me live out my Thunter Bunny fantasy? See you come back and still ignore me. Now it's time for an avatar switch....

[sharkdiver]

So to everyone who has posted just above, I offer thanks.

Except to Sharkie...who is evil and must be destroyed.   

You know I love you 
 (and really wants to watch The Queen's Thunter Bunny fantasy come true)
Sharkie
(who only teases if he really likes you)

[thunter34]

Now when you gonna let me live out my Thunter Bunny fantasy? See you come back and still ignore me. Now it's time for an avatar switch....

Cookies?

[thunter34]

OMG.  Project Runway is on.  Be back later.

[Queen Tokelove]

Well, I got to start with something sweet, Thunter Bunny. I could be the Girl Scout from Hell and you the neighbor I'm trying to sell my cookies to. Damn, work with me, man. But then I got left hanging in a thread for Project Runway...*pouts and sighs*...See, it moments like this when I need Sharkie. *carefully puts out some Sharkie Treats*

[BT65]

Oh, by all means, Mum and Nadine don't offend at all (and of course, Teresa...probably others not coming to mind).  I guess it's those who come on here for unknown reasons I tend to be leary of.  People who don't disclose their own reason for being here. 

Queen, it looks like we've got some work to do!

[minismom]

Came in strickly to hijack for a brief moment.  Betty, congrats on over 3000 posts


Mum

[Winiroo]

Ok, small hijack.  Sharkie, poor timitation has to pick his own bone because Betty and Queen have abandon him.

Back on track:

Wow, I'm not sure what to say.  I'm negative and have never pretended otherwise.  And, I do post in a lot of different forums. I was only trying to get information to help my jr. pozzie and, in turn, found friends. Honestly, I've never thought about it being an issue.  Maybe I need to rethink things.  When I first started posting, I did PM Ann or Jan, sorry, I can't remember which, and asked where I could and couldn't go.  I was told and have stuck to it (except for posting in the women's forum - shame on me!).  I certainly never meant to upset anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable. 

I do understand where you are coming from, hun.  There are folks that go lurking and posting (and PM-ing) where they shouldn't.  But, from what I've noticed, the moderators have done a good job herding them back to their proper places.

Mum

You are always welcome in my book Mum. I think you and your beautifully sweet daughter are a wonderful addition to our forum. 

[ademas]

Oh, by all means, Mum and Nadine don't offend at all (and of course, Teresa...probably others not coming to mind).  I guess it's those who come on here for unknown reasons I tend to be leary of.  People who don't disclose their own reason for being here. 

I agree--"unknown reasons" raises red flags for me--as does immediate over-familiarity--or posting binges right out of the gate--or bringing up highly controversial topics at every turn. 

It's not that difficult to spot someone who has been here before under a different moniker, in spite of their pleas of innocence.  The members of these forums have uncovered them on many occasions, and they've been right far more than they've been wrong.

[Winiroo]

I agree--"unknown reasons" raises red flags for me--as does immediate over-familiarity--or posting binges right out of the gate--or bringing up highly controversial topics at every turn. 

It's not that difficult to spot someone who has been here before under a different moniker, in spite of their pleas of innocence.  The members of these forums have uncovered them on many occasions, and they've been right far more than they've been wrong.

It never ceases to amaze me how many brilliantly strange people there are online.

[thunter34]

*carefully puts out some Sharkie Treats*

I'm barely out the door and she's already getting chummy with Sharkie again. 

Hmmm...I see how this game is played.  I gotta keep my ladies happy or they're gonna roam.

Hell, I don't blame you.  I can't bend like that. 

[Dachshund]

I agree--"unknown reasons" raises red flags for me--as does immediate over-familiarity--or posting binges right out of the gate--or bringing up highly controversial topics at every turn. 

It's not that difficult to spot someone who has been here before under a different moniker, in spite of their pleas of innocence.  The members of these forums have uncovered them on many occasions, and they've been right far more than they've been wrong.

Amen to that brother. I see no reason why someone can't be politely asked their status. Usually all it takes is a "why don't you introduce yourself." Refusing to answer is just one big fat red flag. Believe me we can't be fooled.