hey guyz and galz need a hug

[NLEWLAD]

feeling a bit down tonite,   

feel like i have the whole worlds problems on my shoulders

why oh why do i always reveal my status to random partners  when last night  i went to a sauna in manchester and there was this kid  and i mean kid coulnt be a day over 18  getting fucked bareback by a group of men

IT FUCKING DISCGUSTED ME

THE "KID" HAD OBVIOUSLY BEEN given drugs as he was more or less comatosed

the world has fucking gone mad

[BT65]

Sorry you had a bad experience.  I learned a long time ago that I can't take on the whole world's problems.  Anyway, here's a {{HUG.}}

[anniebc]

I'm sorry you had to witness something like that, I agree with Betty, as disgusting and as disturbing as it was you can't take on the problems of others, all I can suggest is you stay away from animals like that...I'm assuming those who own the sauna don't give a damn about what happend there as long as they get their money.

{{{{{HUGS}}}}}

Jan

[redhotmuslbear]

Agree with Jan and Betty.  One must have the courage to change the things which one can, the serenity to accept that which one cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

That said, when coming upon scenes like the one described, it's important to not jump to conclusions and to be as objective as possible.  Not everyone who looks underage is, and vice versa.  I had lunch with my mom near her office when I was 15 and she was 36 -- we ordered cocktails, and she got carded, but I didn't.  The young man may have--and most likely did--willingly take whatever drugs he was on, along with the choice to receiving unprotected anal intercourse.

While the event may be a suggestion to stay out of the baths to avoid seeing such things, it could also be a tool to spur you to inquire when you see crazy stuff going on.  In a well-managed BDSM dungeon, a DM (dungeon master) would have jumped on the scene early upon noting intoxication, then tossed the crew for unprotected sex.  In a less strict dungeon, there would have been inquiry to make certain that the receiver had given full consent to the scene and drug use before it all began.

Best,
David

[NLEWLAD]

thanks people for the replys and hugs 

i just wonder what animals i am living with on this planet that can do that to a kid  maybe he wanted it maybe he didnt who knows  but  the "tops" were twice and three times his age and FUCKING SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER

its a sick and twisted world we live in.


x

[newt]

its a sick and twisted world we live in

Got it in one

But it don't have to be your world

You are responsible for what you do, and that is enough. People have to make their own mistakes in the end. This is what freedom brings to the table.

When I go (well, went) to saunas my rule was I left happy with what I did there, and did not get into other people's shit. They made their choices before they went prob.

It's like driving. I know other people on the road is driving reckless, fast, drunk etc, but I am not, and if I can spot the dangerous drivers I avoid them. But sometimes I need/want to go out in the car, I ain't staying in cos of other stupid fuckers and I ain't taking the rap for their bad driving.

Big hug

- matt

[NLEWLAD]

hey matt,

totally and utterley agree with you

xxx

[BlueMoon]

Most likely the young man went there with the full intention of getting zonked and boinked, so what can you do?  It may be that he's already infected with HIV. 

[sharkdiver]

Most likely the young man went there with the full intention of getting zonked and boinked, so what can you do?  It may be that he's already infected with HIV. 

yes that could be the case unfortunately.  There are websites out there for that purpose too (just absolutely fucking unbelievable...but that is reality)

it is sad

[Miss Philicia]

yes that could be the case unfortunately.  There are websites out there for that purpose too (just absolutely fucking unbelievable...but that is reality)

it is sad

got that right

[Matty the Damned]

Hell, I'd forgotten all about Bareback Exchange. It has such a naughty, underground "out-on-the-fringe" atmosphere.

MtD

[Miss Philicia]

I just modified my link (from Bareback Exchange to bugshare.net -- I think they're affiliated or something, not sure)to a much better thread over there relevant to this topic at hand

[fearless]

Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.
H. G. Wells,

[thunter34]

Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.
H. G. Wells,

Great quote, though I'm not sure I can get behind it 100%.  I just can't get comfortable with the notion of "bug chasing" and "gift giving"...especially when it comes to such extremes as "breeding bi married bottoms" and all that.  Not jealous of participating in that mess at all.  Seriously.

I'm even less comfortable with clicking that link and discovering some, ahem...quite familiar names on it.  The plan is to infect as many people as possible then recruit them for the New York Buyer's Club and sell 'em lots of K-PAX for their new infection, apparently.

[shadowfluid]

got that right

LOL.
At first I didn't get it. Then I scrolled down and recognized somebody! You shit-starter. 

[shadowfluid]

Great quote, though I'm not sure I can get behind it 100%.  I just can't get comfortable with the notion of "bug chasing" and "gift giving"...especially when it comes to such extremes as "breeding bi married bottoms" and all that.  Not jealous of participating in that mess at all.  Seriously.

I'm even less comfortable with clicking that link and discovering some, ahem...quite familiar names on it.  The plan is to infect as many people as possible then recruit them for the New York Buyer's Club and sell 'em lots of K-PAX for their new infection, apparently.

You boys! Go drink your green tea.

[thunter34]

You boys! Go drink your green tea.

I think that I might need something stiffer to drink than green tea!  This whole bug chaser / "gift giver" mess has got me reeling.  I just don't see how people can justify the intentional spreading of a disease that comes with such high costs - from financial to physical, up to and including the potential loss of life. 

It blows the mind. 

[thunter34]

thanks people for the replys and hugs 

i just wonder what animals i am living with on this planet that can do that to a kid  maybe he wanted it maybe he didnt who knows  but  the "tops" were twice and three times his age and FUCKING SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER

its a sick and twisted world we live in.


x

I do have to say - kinda in agreement with Steve's HG Wells quote:  Give it a rest already.  "Sick and twisted world"?  "What kind of animals"?  "The whole world gone mad"?  Jeez.  Puh-leeze.  They're just doing exactly what you were doing before you got pozzed up and it took the wind out of your sails.  Same as most of the rest of us here, really - with precious, precious few exceptions.  We see this time and again...some queen gets diagnosed and then their conscience won't let them PNP with the same abandon they once had - and suddenly it's "HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE MAAAAAAAAD?!"  I mean really...it's the sauna.  Just what did you expect to see there anyway?  "They should have known better!"  Yeah?  Well, so should you...didn't stop you from getting the bug, did it?  Or me.  Or any number of us. 

Honestly...this mess always sounds like those pathetic AA people who have just gone dry and proceed to chastise everyone else for taking a sip.  How could they?!   Easy - it was fun.  DAMN fun.  And it still is...but your circumstances prevent you from doing it with the same abandon as you once were able to (or at least they should, but that brings us back around to the whole bug spreader thing).  It's not as easily within reach for you as it once was - and that's what's really eatin' ya.

[carousel]

I don't think the whole world's gone mad, the kid was just doing what many of us did and still do.  Take drugs and have lots of sex.

I avoid saunas, mainly because I no longer take drugs and hey presto, the desire to get banged bareback sort of wained.  But there's plenty who will carry on doing what I did and will join the club.

A bareback scrum in a gay sauna. Who Knew?

[rondrond]

I'm afraid that my weekly trips to Dallas started out with dinner, and a few 'nice' bars ...but at 11pm, I was parking at The Trestle ...

they would turn out all the lights, except for a few blacklights after @1am and I had to be in place and ready when that happened...

I also had a pretty good idea of just who was there and tried to get as close to my first victim as I could for when the lghts went out and everyone went ...wild....

[BlueMoon]

I just modified my link (from Bareback Exchange to bugshare.net -- I think they're affiliated or something, not sure)to a much better thread over there relevant to this topic at hand

That made for some unwholesome reading. 

[thunter34]

That made for some unwholesome reading. 

YA RLY.  Maybe this thread shoulda been retitled:  "Hey guyz and galz need a bug". 

It made me feel that kind of icky you can't really shower off.

[pacerintl]

Why Isn't Anyone Fucking Anymore?
The end of public sex
by Steve Weinstein
June 17th, 2008 12:00 AM
 
On the night before Memorial Day last month, several hundred men were packed into the top floor of a building in the meatpacking district. A DJ spun in a corner while bartenders frantically poured vodka into paper cups. A few of the men—most of them older—had checked their clothes, but the younger ones were keeping theirs on. In a few darkened corners, there were a few guys giving blowjobs and some ass play; overall, however, the scene could have passed for a typical holiday weekend at any East Village gay bar.

What was most notable about this party wasn't that a few people were—somewhat desultorily—playing around. Rather, it's how many didn't seem to evince the slightest interest in a hookup of any kind. Despite the heat (no fans, let alone air conditioning), the naked go-go boys and the alcohol people seemed content to make chitchat. And whatever little sex was going on, most seemed oblivious to it.

In 2002, I wrote the Voice's cover story for the Pride issue on "The Return of Public Sex." I chronicled the explosion in sex venues, from clubs to private parties to backroom bars: "After years of AIDS anxiety and government repression, gay public sex is bigger and better than ever," I wrote.

What a difference six years make.

The city has shut down all but two bathhouses and every known sex club in Manhattan, as well as citing bars, clubs, and private parties where inspectors find any men-on-men action. The few entrepreneurs still out there complain about apathy and different priorities among younger gay men.

Daniel Nardicio, the promoter who put on the Memorial Day–eve event, sees himself as a veteran of the battle to bring sleaze to the masses. He's perhaps best known for TigerBeat—underwear parties held at the Slide on the Bowery, where everyone had to check his (or, occasionally, her) clothes. The city shut down TigerBeat in 2004 by orders from the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, citing complaints about sexual activity.

Since then, Nardicio has been a nomad, exploring various venues. He's had bathing-suit parties at a Turkish sauna on Wall Street; organized a road trip to Atlantic City; and tried out a Chinatown photo studio, other Lower East Side bars, and, most recently, the meatpacking-district loft space. His themes always brush the far end of good taste: For Memorial Day, he gave out Fleet Enemas. So he doesn't blame the authorities for the lack of sexual license as much as a fundamental change in the attitudes of gay men themselves.

"These things are ending because people don't want them anymore," he says. "People are spoiled, petulant, uninteresting. I've been throwing outrageous parties again and again for years, but the only time I was busted was at the Slide."

Like everyone else these days, Nardicio blames the Internet for the lack of public engagement. Even so, he adds: "If people wanted dirty, raunchy parties in New York, it would happen. But people don't want it."

If there's a generational shift between post-Stonewall gay men and their younger counterparts, it's that the latter are more interested in fashionista kiss-kiss cocktail soirees like Hiro at the Maritime Hotel and Beige at B Bar: "People are so obsessed about how they look," Nardicio complains. "Everyone wants to pretend they're an A&F model."

For some, this new attitude may mark a healthy and normal progression—from the generation that had to fight for its right to party to a new breed fighting for the right to marry and serve openly in the military. Today, it's easier than ever to come out, and people are doing it in high school or even before. Coming out so early in life, they don't feel as alienated from straight women—or, increasingly, men. Rather than facing discrimination and alienation, they can look forward to marriage and children: "They're not feeling as marginalized," Nardicio says. "Young guys are not as interested in a gay-only scene."

Even on the Internet, young guys are at least as interested in social- networking sites like MySpace as hooking up on Manhunt. "The 21-year-olds are interested in dating," Nardicio notes. "There's a lot less self-hatred."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still, there's no question that Mayor Bloomberg's administration hasn't exactly been sex-positive. Rumblings about the city's policy came to a boil in January, when a reporter at the local newspaper Gay City News obtained a copy of an internal memo recommending that the city's health commissioner move aggressively to monitor sex clubs more closely or shut them down altogether.

Since the memo was leaked, city officials have been talking out of both sides of their mouths. On the one hand, public faces for the administration like Dr. Monica Sweeney—a top official working on AIDS prevention and services—have been attending public forums where, in Sweeney's case, she patiently explains over and over that there is no organized pogrom against public sex: "There have been no plans at all in the Department of Health to close commercial sex venues," she stated at a heated meeting at the LGBT Center in February.

The city's actions, however, tell a very different story. Manhattan's three best-known sex clubs—El Mirage, the Studio, and the Comfort Zone—have all been shuttered: El Mirage two years ago, the other two much more recently. The Wall Street Sauna was closed in 2004, leaving the city with two bathhouses, the East Side Club and the West Side Club. Bars like the Cock, the Eagle, the Slide, and Boysroom have been cited for various violations. Mr. Black, perhaps the most popular hangout for the city's younger gay set, was shut down last year for alleged drug dealing on the premises.

One of the last remaining owners of a Manhattan sex club tried to play ball with the city: He contracted with Positive Health Project, a local AIDS-information service known for its outreach, to give safe-sex demonstrations, lectures, and offer HIV testing. Condoms in bowls were everywhere, as were safer-sex messages. None of that satisfied city inspectors, who then raided the club for alleged building-code violations.

All of this leaves a few vocal gay men outraged—most of them older. Eric Rofes, the California academic who wrote extensively on the positive aspects of gay sex before his death in 2006, spoke passionately at the LGBT Center two years ago about the need for random interactions and meeting places in the age of the Internet. He decried the "disappearance or diminution of sex-site premises," such as gay bookstores (where men can have sex in semi-private stalls), and the "privatization of sexual cultures," such as the leather and S&M scenes—all dismissed as tired or played out by the next generation of gay men.

The site of Nardicio's party was emblematic of the fundamental changes that have taken place in the city: Much of Cruising, the infamous Hollywood version of rampant gay sex in the '70s, was filmed there. Portraying a man dying of AIDS in The Hours, actor Ed Harris threw himself out of one of its windows. This is where the Hellfire Club once hosted S&M parties for straights, gays, and everything in between; now, moneyed Europeans and Wall Street traders dine on raw meat of a very different kind.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be sure, people are still having sex. But compared to the bad old days of 2002, it's a movable feast and ever more underground. A recent issue of HX, a local gay-party weekly, listed 24 private clubs, from the New York Bondage Club to Foot Friends (foot fetishists), Golden Showers of America (water sports—i.e., piss), Bear Hunt NYC (fans of the heavy-set and hirsute), and Thugs4Thugs (exclusively blacks and Latinos). And those are only the ones listed; other clubs, such as New York by Night, which meets monthly in a Hell's Kitchen apartment, and NYC Jock Party, in Brooklyn, limit themselves to e-mail lists and references.

Those who defend such parties point to isolation and fear as the prime causes of HIV infection. Shutting down places where people can have sex, they argue, is like shutting down bars because people get drunk. Prohibition proved that didn't work, and neither will pretending that all gay men will go to California to get hitched if they're denied group sex. Perry Halkitis, a professor of psychology at NYU, compares such attempts to the arcade game Whack-a-Mole: "You hit the mole, others pop up," he said at a public forum earlier this year.

Others, however, just stay down. On a nondescript side street in southern Hell's Kitchen a few weeks ago, a former sex club held an unusual "yard sale." Items like an industrial-strength sling, leather outfits, and sex toys were being sold by the owner (who asked that his name not be used). He says that he provided condoms and lube for his patrons but couldn't—and wouldn't—turn his staff into sex police. "If you go to a club and there are condoms supplied for free, isn't that better than going to someone's home where there are no condoms available?" he asks. "People take a handful when they leave. When we close down, these people will still be having sex with each other. They'll just have to look harder."

Among the scavengers at the yard sale was Daniel Nardicio, buying some theatrical lighting for possible upcoming parties. He's moving on, however: He's got an Internet radio show, a fast-growing East Village–oriented website (DList.com), and even plans for an apparel line—underwear imprinted with the wearer's phone number.

New York, he sighs, has fallen behind other world cities: "Everywhere is more sexually happening," he complains. "I love New York—I can't live anywhere else. The problem is, it's so unmotivated, so uptight right now."

Mike Peyton, a promoter active in the fetish scene, believes that there's still a desire for hot sex, whether in public, in private, or online. "We pioneered it; we rivaled everybody," he says. "It's not just sex—it's erotic expression. When the meatpacking district was in full swing, there were tranny hookers, clubs like the Mine Shaft, the trucks. It's sad to see that go. New York was once the bastion of freewheeling sex. Now it's lost."


We could still do this, just test people people at the door.

And they wiill shut down the last sex clubs if people don't change their behavior or if those that witness it don't report it.
Where will the OP go then?
 

[Matty the Damned]

We could still do this, just test people people at the door.

And they wiill shut down the last sex clubs if people don't change their behavior or if those that witness it don't report it.
Where will the OP go then?

I presume these comments are yours and not part of the article you quoted. The testing one is too silly for commentary.

If they didn't shut down the sex clubs in 1983, they ain't gonna shut them down today. More to the point, who do you propose "people" be reported to?

MtD

[Dachshund]

We could still do this, just test people people at the door.

And they wiill shut down the last sex clubs if people don't change their behavior or if those that witness it don't report it.
Where will the OP go then?  
 

Pacer, we are not a we, you're negative, but yet you insist on giving us advice. You've been asked repeatedly not to cut and paste whole articles without a link. Posting in Living With HIV should be confined whenever possible to those that are positive.

I agree with Matty on your commentary, it's naive and silly.
 
 

[GSOgymrat]

It's all about the internet, baby.

New York may have gone Victorian but I can tell you public sex is alive and well in the South.

[David_CA]

It's all about the internet, baby.

New York may have gone Victorian but I can tell you public sex is alive and well in the South.

How true, thankfully!

[allopathicholistic]

assbreeder
 Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 07:27 am:     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
just as a test, i went into gay.com and put in my bio line that i was looking to breed a bottom, it was amazing the number of guys that had no clue what it ment. a couple of them will find out next time they get a hiv test.. heh..

(quote from "assbreeder")

wow. this person must hate the world and everyone in it. 

[Iggy]

I find it interesting at what some take offense or exception about considering what is open for humor, criticism, offense or ridicule in other threads. 

Frankly it boils down to Newt's post as far as I am concerned.

[thunter34]

I find it interesting at what some take offense or exception about considering what is open for humor, criticism, offense or ridicule in other threads. 

Frankly it boils down to Newt's post as far as I am concerned.

Well, people are full of contradictions aren't they?  I mean one can even tag himself "AIDS Activist" by day while slurping up piss and semen off the floor in bareback videos by night, eh?

I guess everyone seeks to find their own personal balance of what is right and wrong.  And for me...seeking out negative people to "poz up" is just wrong.

[Iggy]

Well, people are full of contradictions aren't they?  I mean one can even tag himself "AIDS Activist" by day while slurping up piss and semen off the floor in bareback videos by night, eh?

I guess everyone seeks to find their own personal balance of what is right and wrong.  And for me...seeking out negative people to "poz up" is just wrong.

 I'll let the moderators discuss the contradictions since you felt it necessary to make such a post particularliy since it wasn't about me - only those you wish to attack by connection to me.  Enough Thunter. 

[thunter34]

I'll let the moderators discuss the contradictions since you felt it necessary to make such a post particularliy since it wasn't about me - only those you wish to attack by connection to me.  Enough Thunter. 

Thank you.  I was about to do the same.  I would much rather have them address this, Iggy.  I quite agree:  Enough.  You send me mail out of the blue attacking me, you continually make snide comments just like the one above to incite a flame war.  Enough already. 

Let's let the mods take it from here.  I have no interest in getting taken out on your account.

[Iggy]

Thunter,

I wasn't talking about you specifically in my post.  If you jumped to that conclusion that is your issue and no one else's.

If you have an issue with me address me in a pm as I did you. Sorry you need to make this public.

[Miss Philicia]

I find it interesting at what some take offense or exception about considering what is open for humor, criticism, offense or ridicule in other threads. 

I'm not even sure what you're attempting to say with that.  Can you clarify it for me?

[thunter34]

I am trying hard to not have ANYTHING to do with you, Iggy.  As stated, say what you will here.  I wish to leave it for the moderators.  I want no fight.

[Iggy]

I'm not even sure what you're attempting to say with that.  Can you clarify it for me?

Frankly I find things that are discussed at times in certain threads offensive to many at times.  My feeling is that is the individual (who is offended) problem to deal with, whether to grow a thicker skin or to raise the issue to a moderator.

In this particular thread I find it ironic that many who seem to push boundaries (and frankly I think many boundaries are artificial and should be tested) are raising concerns in a moralistic viewpoint as if the issue is one of black and white.

Many of us have stated repeatedly that the fault of conversion (usually our own) was our own admitted fault - that we were not innocent victims to our decisions....many of us have made statements also talking about our right to do anything from crystal meth to weed to poppers with a sort of anger at any that would warn of us of consequences.

All of this makes me feel that Newt's statements are the most correct - we can only live our own lives, and If I might editorialize - save our judgements against others behavior's to better gauge our own actions.

I hope that clarifies.

[Iggy]

I am trying hard to not have ANYTHING to do with you, Iggy.  As stated, say what you will here.  I wish to leave it for the moderators.  I want no fight.

Thunter, quoting me and making remarks about someone is sure a sign that you are full of it in your last statement.  Again.  If you have issues with me - send me a pm as I did you.  I afforded you that respect, if you can't do so in return then just place me on ignore.

[thunter34]

It wasn't my wish to post further here, but for the record:  I really didn't mean so much to attack Jeromy (as Jeromy and I have always gotten along OK).  I was just illustrating that people say and do all sorts of opposite actions.  People do and say things all that time that can be seen as contradictions.  That was my point. 

Now please let me bow out of this with hopefully some shred of grace.

[Miss Philicia]

I hope that clarifies.

Not really.  Newt's comment was early in the thread.  Pretty much 80% of the remainder of this thread is about the web site Bareback Exchange, so your broad conclusions about what's going on in here at the 11th hour don't make sense to me actually.

But whatever.

[Iggy]

Not really.  Newt's comment was early in the thread.  Pretty much 80% of the remainder of this thread is about the web site Bareback Exchange, so your broad conclusions about what's going on in here at the 11th hour don't make sense to me actually.

But whatever.

I disagree with your take.  The whole thread has continuously returned to a theme of judgements about others actions as being too far out there or beyond the scope of acceptance, but when we look at our own behaviors, I do ask, how many of us have lived a life that can state beyond reproach in judgements of all others behavior's.

Who knows how many on bareback exchange are real or just full of it and living out some kind of fantasy in the written word?  I certainly don't.  I find it interesting though that we equate our own personal level of what is right and wrong for others fantasies as being in the realm of judgment but can ridicule those who say equate doing poppers as dangerous.

I just think that maybe the issue here isn't what we think about people who engage in such actions so much as what we do to counter them beyond discussion on the internet whether in our personal decisions, or our own behaviours in volunteering to help others regardless of how some may judge us as worthy of participating or even having a voice in such issues because of our past.  I fear that some are equating that one's past actions (whether they salivated at one moment over it or found reason to find ridicule of it in another) mean they are without merit ever...how very Karl Rove.

[Miss Philicia]

Sorry, I just find that a bit of baloney.

[Iggy]

Ok. It is my take on it and that is yours.  I appreciate however the non-attacking response.

[Ann]

You know what? This discussion has precious little to do with the original post.

If you people have personal problems to hash out between you, this isn't the appropriate place in which to do it. Take it to email. NOT PM. Email. We here at Aidsmeds don't have the time nor inclination to moderate your petty personal squabbles.

I'm locking this thread.

Ann

[Peter Staley]

Okay, I've discussed this with the other mods, and we are FUCKING FED UP.

I mean one can even tag himself "AIDS Activist" by day while slurping up piss and semen off the floor in bareback videos by night, eh?

Tim -- this was WAY over the line.  And don't think we don't notice that you have a habit of replying immediately after every post Iggy makes.  And yes, Iggy seems equally intent on pushing your buttons as well (what's with the PM Iggy?).

Iggy and Tim -- we get it.  We know you guys hate each other.  And we're on to your games -- we know each of you is trying to get the other one banned.

So here's how we're going to play it.  Start this shit again, and you'll both get immediate Time-Outs, with no more warnings.  Tim -- that's 30 days for you (2nd TO).  Iggy, that's 7 days for you (first TO).

But, here's the rub.  If we do end up banning either one of you for an attack on the other, then we won't give the other the satisfaction of being the last one standing.  We will ban both of you at the same time, regardless of your TO count.

Basically, we're really sick and tired of babysitting your endless pissing match.  Consider yourselves warned.