A few questions for Andy, Ann, and JK..

[Stolen]

Hi,

Just wanted to ask a few questions about HIV. I'm hoping that Andy, Ann, and JK are reading this, since I'd love to see their answers. Please, I appreciate all your help.

(1) If let's say someone is infected with HIV 5-7 years ago, would he/she perhaps be undetectable on HIV tests if tested now, assuming that that person has long past progressed into the asymptomatic phase of HIV? Any possibility of that positive person shelling out false negatives 5-7 years down the line?

(2) I've always practiced safe sex (condoms) all my life (only had 3 partners so far). Actually, initially I stumbled across AIDSmeds because of a classroom presentation I had to do in regards to HIV/STDS, thing is that I'm a little bit freaked out now because I read a few posts from each forum, and I came across a user by the name of Craig97 who said that he had been practicing safe sex all his life as well, but tested positive still. This has triggered anxiety in me now, could someone please explain the real deal about how this happened? Was I at risk for HIV even if I'm protected?

(3) I never thought about condom failure till I came to AIDSmeds. Now i'm wondering if whether my condom failed on me and I didnt have a clue about it. Would simply looking at a condom after sex be adequate enough to assume that it's intact?

(4) I read Ann's condom links, and the step that mentions pinching the top of the condom while unrolling so that there's no air trapped -- I've never done that!! I've always merely rolled it down on my penis, does that mean my condoms have been failing all this while because I didn't perform this step?

(5) Are handjobs with babyoil a risk? I recently visited a spa where the masseuse gave me a whole body massage with baby oil and provided me with a happy ending then, I remember seeing some oil bubbling at the tip of my urethra...if the babyoil had HIV in it couldnt this have been a risk?

(6) I have slightly sensitive skin, I think it's folliculitis or something that gives me pimples around my torso region now and then? If lets say this masseuse was HIV positive, would her hands massaging my torso be a risk because of this skin condition?

Thanks guys.

[Ann]

Stolen,

1. If a person is hiv positive, they will test positive on the antibody test between three to six weeks following infection taking place and they will always test positive for the rest of their life. Only a three month test is conclusive, however.

2. Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv infection. Sometimes people can't even admit to themselves that they've engaged in risky behaviours, let alone admit it to anyone else. Sometimes people don't remember risky behaviour because they were under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. Patient reporting is notoriously unreliable.

However, there have been studies where one partner is positive and one is negative. (the studies are discussed in the Transmission lesson, which you should have read by now) In the couples whose only precaution was to use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, NOT ONE of the negative partners became infected. NOT ONE. These studies have proven what activities are real transmission risks and what are not. Regardless of what some anonymous person posts in some internet forum.

3. Condom failure is obvious. You'd know.

4. Getting the air out of the tip prevents the condom bursting. You've been lucky. If a condom bursts, it's obvious. Start pinching before rolling.

5. Handjobs are not a risk for hiv infection, period. Hiv cannot survive in baby oil or any other lube.

6. For a start, quit guessing about what causes your skin problem and see a doctor about it. Regardless of what it is, you will not be infected from a massage. Hiv is not transmitted through the skin.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Ann

[Stolen]

Thanks Ann.

So what you're implying is that even though I did not pinch whilst unrolling the condoms during my protected escapades, Im still at NO RISK since I would've noticed a condom failure, Correct?

I'm worried now, because whenever I used condoms, I recall the tips looking pretty full of air, and then when I was done, I recall seeing the tips slightly stretched and flaccid looking. Is that a sign of failure? One would assume that that air trapped before vaginal sex would've gone somewhere? where else would it have gone if not for the condom's integrity to be compromised, i.e. meaning a hole or a tear from where the air would've escaped right, in turn allowing entry to HIV/STDs right?

Do I need testing only as a matter of routine now, or did I actually run any risks here?

Andy, JK...? I'd really love to hear from you guys as well in regards to my concerns. Thanks all.

[Ann]

Stolen,

So what you're implying is that even though I did not pinch whilst unrolling the condoms during my protected escapades, Im still at NO RISK since I would've noticed a condom failure, Correct?

Absolutely correct.

It's most likely the air would have been pressed down the shaft and escaped through the open end of the condom. If your condom burst because of trapped air, it would have been like a balloon popping and you can often hear this when it happens. YOU'D KNOW when you withdrew if not sooner.

You only need testing as a matter of routine. It's what RESPONSIBLE sexually active adults do.

Ann

[Stolen]

Ann,

I see, but then why do people say broken condoms look like hula skirts?

I mean when condoms do TRULY fail does the part of the condom that covers the penile shaft often shred along with the tip? Or is it just the tip that shreds and the rest of the condom looks normal?
 
"YOU'D KNOW when you withdrew if not sooner" -- does that mean that if a condom merely looks intact to the eye after vaginal sex, then that means it indeed was? 

[Ann]

Stolen,

People say they look like hula skirts because they do. Albeit latex ones. They pretty much shred. It's very noticable and believe me, as soon as you went to take it off, you'd see something was wrong with it. In fact, many times one or both partners notice that it feels different during the act. I know I can certainly tell the difference between latex and bare skin when it's being rubbed in my genital area.

Keep using condoms - and have routine tests for ALL STIs (all the other ones are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv) - and you'll be just fine where hiv is concerned. Really. I was in a serodiscordant relationship for eight years and he was still hiv negative when we split - because we used condoms for intercourse. You do the same and you'll be fine.

Ann

[Stolen]

Thanks Ann 

I'm so glad that you've come along and enlightened me.

I wonder why Andy or JK haven't added their 2cents here though? 

Andy and jk, seriously..if you're reading this, please address my concerns, I like to hear different perspectives because they usually allow your knowledge to further diversify in terms of understanding that matter. Ive already got one expert's opinion (Ann), why don't you guys give me a piece of your mind as well?

A question to all you guys: In all honesty I'm really REALLY scared about being HIV+, I recently made a mistake and had protected oral sex & protected vaginal sex with a sex worker I don't know what a broken condom looks or feels like since I never seen or had one before, and the fact that there are people on the HIV positive forum who said that they only had protected sex a few times in life and yet they end up being infected IS REALLY REALLY getting me worried now....I could use some moral support please?, that way atleast if I am positive because of this encounter I'll be able keep a little bit of my mental health intact

Umm, also Ann...in your last post you didn't answer the following:
If a condom merely looks intact to the naked eye after vaginal sex, then that means that it indeed DID NOT fail?

[Ann]

Stolen,

Umm yourself. I did answer your question. If you and your naked eye saw that the condom looked intact, then no, it didn't fail.

Andy and JK didn't say anything to you because there's nothing more to say. If they disagreed with me, they'd say.

Get tested if you can't bring yourself to believe what you've been told. A RESPONSIBLE sexually active adult does this as a matter of routine.

Ann

[Stolen]

Ann,

I just went into the bathroom and used my two fingers to rip through 2 separate condoms as a bit of an experiment. Sure enough they shred, however I realized that with the second one, when it shred -- from a cross sectional point of view only the lower half shred all the way to the tip, the upper half stayed on top of my fingers, and from where I was visually observing it from, I realized the exact sort of situation could've taken place when I got with this prostitute, and I wouldn't have known since the lower half wasn't directly in my line of sight...Get it?

Lets just say you've got a banana for a penis, so imagine you're a guy looking down at your banana and the condom is the banana peel -- Laterally, what if the upper half of the peel covering your penis is still pretty much there, but the lower half of the peel which mind you isn't in your direct line of sight was shred out completely. Theoretically that would be a risk situation right?

Also Ann, I forgot to mention, the sexworker placed the condom on me whilst I was only semi erect, she then gave me head for a mere few seconds and we got vaginal jiggy then for about 7-8 minutes...I didnt ejaculate, and so when I opted she give me a handjob, she proceeded to remove the condom herself. Granted I never put on/took off the condom, what do you reckon are the chances the condom broke and I didnt notice it

If I were to tell you that I had already been tested a few months earlier for HIV/STIs, would you advise me to go and test over this specific incident? I mean if there were even the slightest risk here, you'd tell me right?
 

[Ann]

Stolen,

If you've been tested in the past year, then no, you don't need to test over your sex worker  question.

Look mate, we're not here to hold your hand. We're here to give risk assessments and testing advice. You've had both. If you're in doubt over your hiv status, go test, but don't use this forum to go on and on about it. Got it?

Ann

[Stolen]

Ann,

I got it loud & clear.

I'm going to keep myself off this forum. I actually just wanted re-assurance from you, Andy & jk, that's all.

I'm going to go get tested soon, but you guys are pretty sure I have a negative waiting for me at the end of this right?

[Ann]

Stolen,

you guys are pretty sure I have a negative waiting for me at the end of this right?

YES! Re-read your thread because that's the last hand-holding you're going to get from me. Go test, collect your negative result and move on with your life.

Ann

[Stolen]

Thanks Ann,

No need to hold my hand anymore in regards to this incident. I'll go test and update y'all.

I have a question in regards to female HIV transmission though, it isn't to do with me but someone I know. I was wondering if a Bartholin's Abscess or Cyst is in anyway a sign of HIV or ARS?

Understood that symptoms in HIV are never specific, but I was just wondering if in your many years dealing with this sort of thing, you might be able to give me some insight into this condition, and if it has any bearings in HIV/ARS females.

A friend of mine has had an issue with Bartholin's off & on for the last few years, and she recently got tested for HIV 3months post exposure which came back negative, she asked me today if this condition could've affected the conclusiveness of her HIV negative results? Didn't really have an answer for her, so thought I'd ask.

Thanks

[Ann]

Stolen,

No, Bartholin's issues will not affect the outcome of an hiv test. Your friend is hiv negative.

Ann

[Stolen]

Mr. Andy Velez & Jkinatl2,

I know Ann warned me about how the regulars on here don't spoon feed any of the posters, but I just made an appointment for testing tomorrow, and the more I think about it, the more the thought of coming out positive is driving me insane. Guys please, I've heard it from Ann that there's no risk, but then why is it that there's a voice inside of me telling me that there's something wrong with me...

To be honest, I'm terrified because Ann mentioned that you'd hear a noise similar to a balloon popping if a condom burst, I can't remember if I heard a noise like that during the vaginal sex. When I looked at the condom afterwards it seemed in shape though...I just keep replaying that moment over and over again. Do I have a risk? Even a theoretical one Andy? Jkinatl2?
 

[RapidRod]

Reread the answers that have been given and then read the "Welcome" thread which you should have done before you ever began posting on this forum.

[Stolen]

Rapidrod,

I've done what you've asked me, but I keep feeling as if I was at risk because I wasn't sure if my condom stayed intact or not. What are my chances of testing positive granted my situation Mr. Rod? This is the first time I've been with a CSW, and I didnt even pinch the condom to make sure all the air was out. One of the main cause of condom failure are airpockets, arent they? what if mine failed due to the air pockets?

[Ann]

Stolen,

For the last time, if the condom had broken you'd know it.

I'm terrified because Ann mentioned that you'd hear a noise similar to a balloon popping if a condom burst

I said you'll OFTEN hear a popping. That doesn't mean you'll ALWAYS hear it. Go back and read my posts SLOWLY until you understand exactly what's been said to you.

You're quickly heading for a time out.

Ann

[Stolen]

Dear Ann,

Please don't give me a timeout, please? . I've been really fretting about this, but as you guys have said that it's all unnecessary.

Ann, I took an appointment with my doctor to get tested, however i'm having last minute jitters now
If I don't test now and take some time to gather my nerves back together, is testing right now absolutely necessary?

Can I just take a break from this all and not get tested, and forget about this incident completely? I'll get tested later but not just now...

[Ann]

Stolen,

Whether or not you test is up to you. However, you won't be permitted to use this forum to wring your hands over your lack of cajones where testing is concerned.

This is your last warning.

Ann

[Stolen]

Ann,

That was pretty harsh. So basically you're going to time me out just because I dont have the balls to go and test?

All I wanted to hear from you guys was that I had absolutely no risk, and that if even in the case I didn't want to test at all -- that that would be ok since there's no way I could turn out positive based on this exposure. Reassurance was all I was looking for Ann.

I'm sorry if this isn't allowed on the forum, I just turned 18 a while ago and never even imagined that I would find myself in a situation like this, stupid & naive I know. I never thought about condom failure before this, and when I got onto AidsMeDs, it freaked me out since coincidentally I had my first encounter with a CSW recently, and have NO clue what to expect over testing now since I never checked the condom for a break or what not..

Please don't time me out over this. I just wanted to hear you, Andy, and jk say it wasn't anything to worry about and that i'll be ok.

 

[Ann]

Stolen,

We HAVE told you that you haven't had a risk. We HAVE told you that it wasn't anything to worry about.

HOWEVER, regular, routine testing for ALL sexually transmitted infections, not just hiv, is what all RESPONSIBLE, sexually active adults do. It's part of growing up, lad.

You've been using condoms and that means you can fully expect your ROUTINE test to come back with negative results.

Whether or not you decide to be a responsible adult is entirely up to you.

Ann

[Stolen]

Dear Ann

Hope it's been a productive day for you today.

I wanted to ask you about an exposure I had yesterday -- a completely new risk assesment.
I'm overseas right now, and came down to another country for a week's worth of holidays.

Anyways I met up with an ex-gf and one thing led to another and I had protected vaginal sex & recieved unprotected oral sex from her. There were 2 episodes of vaginal sex wherein I used a fresh condom each time. I hate to admit this but THIS TIME I made sure I took both condoms to the bathroom after the whole jingbang and performed the water balloon test and was relieved to see that both condoms DID NOT have any leaks whatsoever. So umm, it's safe to assume that since no water leaked out, that no HIV/STD particles could've got in right?

What're the risks associated with recieving unprotected oral sex Ann? It was sort of rough as in she was pretty vigorous, and I felt her teeth from time to time sliding up & down on my shaft, but no blood or cuts or anything. I'm uncircumcised btw, so does this increase my risks during unprotected oral sex?

I fingered her pretty rigorously as well, any risks there Ann?
 

[jkinatl2]

No risk to receiving unprotected oral sex.

No risk in fingering.

Reading the lessons on transmission will hopefully keep you from coming back to the forums with questions which have been thoroughly addressed in the material.

[Stolen]

Dear Ann & jkinatl2,

Do you reckon you could call my most recent encounter a "No-risk" episode?

Also, I wanted to ask you guys about something else, I'm aware of the fact that symptoms are NEVER a reliable indicator of HIV status but there's something rather odd that's happened...

Separate from this incident I had yesterday -- barely 2 weeks ago, I had protected vaginal sex with another ex-gf of mine, there was no oral sex whatsoever, but strangely enough I recieved an email from this girl today and she said that she's had 3 bouts of diarrhea today, alot of malaise, and the most disconcerting of her symptoms is her left inside palm, fingers are all of sudden excessively dry -- and she described it as skin peeling off as if it's a snake shedding skin. Isn't this sort of dry peeling a sure shot sign in ARS patients?

Im just thinking that what if somehow I got infected during the sex worker incident I had back nearly a few months ago? And then infected this ex-gf of mine somehow as well? Cause her dry skin peeling on her palms is such a classic symptom of ARS right?
 

[Ann]

Isn't this sort of dry peeling a sure shot sign in ARS patients?

Stolen,

Where on earth did you ever hear such nonsense? It's a load of codswallop.

You haven't had a risk. Not one single thing you've brought to us has been an hiv risk either for you or the woman you've been with.

Condoms prevent hiv transmission. And by the way, you don't need to fill the condom with water afterwards to find out if it stayed intact or not. A broken condom is a very obvious thing and contrary to popular urban myth, they don't have small holes. You keep filling them with water and one time you're going to break one in the process of filling it and then you'll freak out. Don't do it. Only ten year old kids fill condoms with water - to make funny water balloons. You're an adult - stop it before you freak yourself out.

Keep using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you'll be just fine where hiv is concerned. I promise.

Ann

[Stolen]

Dear Ann,

Ann I'm back, and I think I really messed up this time! I've made a huge mistake! I cant believe I was so stupid granted my awareness of HIV transmission risks now! Anyways I don't know if this is my mind working overtime or if I've actually made the biggest mistake of my life, please do enlighten me!

I have an ex-gf whom I've recently started hanging out with again. We broke up last year, and there was pretty much no contact between us for a year. She's by disposition a pretty conservative sort of a gal, and believes a firm deal in Monogamy -- sad we didn't work due to cultural discrepancies. Anyways come June 2008, we got talking again and started meeting up casually, one thing led to another and we had casual sex like twice, but both episodes were Protected. It was around then I started getting really freaked out about HIV because of that CSW protected sex episode I had back in May 2008 (I've mentioned that in my earlier posts right?), so on 5th July 2008 this ex-gf of mine does me a really good turn and gets tested at the hospital for HIV/VDRL to assure me that she's fine, and it comes back Negative/Non-reactive thankfully. Her results are definitely conclusive considering her last exposure was back in 2007 with me. 

But here comes the humdinger! I had unprotected sex with her today, and she even gave me a blowjob. I felt so guilty having sex with her without a condom today, I mean what if I got infected with HIV with that CSW back in May and now I've infected this ex-gf of mine? I mean what if my condom didn't work adequately enough back in May, and I got infected, the thought that I might have infected this ex-gf of mine who is conclusively HIV negative is driving me crazy, I can't believe I did this, I always have condoms in situations like this, but this time I was caught completely off guard and ended up giving in to my temptations. Ann, what if I was infected by that CSW back in May?, or during my protected episode with that other ex of mine last week? Is there a possibility I infected this ex-gf of mine today with HIV?

I now know the importance of getting tested regularly for HIV/STDs, it eliminates so many variables! I am going to get screened asap but could you give me some rational insight as to what the chances are that I infected this ex-gf of mine? I've always practiced condom protected sex, but this was my first time unprotected!...

Thank you.
 

[jkinatl2]

You tested for the incident in May, did you not? At the appropriate three month window?

Your incidents in May were protected, and therefor not HIV risks, were they not?

So whats up now? Why the anxiety?

And BTW, your true risk now is the UNPROTECTED sex you have had with your ex. UNPROTECTED means that there is a risk to you. And to her, for STDs.

YOU are reliably HIV negative.

SHE is not.

Regardless of her cultural and political affiliation.

Until/unless you are in a mutually monogamous relationship, and have BOTH tested positive for STDS, including HIV, you are engaging in risky behavior. And it is BEHAVIOR, not PEOPLE, who are risky. Often those who are most stifled and most conservative are the ones carrying a truckload of guilt for things they do when the lights go out.

Yes, I would surmise you have had a slight risk. A very very slight risk. By having unprotected sex with a girl with whom you are not currently in a monogamous relationship.

YOu however, and HIV negative thus far. Use condoms and keep it that way.

[Stolen]

Jkinatl2,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, however I think you've misunderstood the scenario at hand now.

"She" as in this ex-gf tested for HIV/VDRL on the 5th July 2008 which came back Negative. This was conclusive since her last sexual exposure was back in 2007 with me. So she is conclusively HIV NEGATIVE to begin with. I had unprotected sex with her today. My worry here is what if I gave her HIV?

What if I was infected during my single protected episode with the CSW back in May 2008? Also last week I met up with another ex of mine, and we had a single episode of protected sex as well. Both episodes; the one in May with a sex worker & the one last week with another girl were protected, and according to y'all if there was a condom failure I would've known for sure, however to my knowledge there was NO failure whatsoever as apparently it's obvious to the eye if a condom were to fail. I'm still wondering though if I may have infected this ex-gf of mine today with HIV?   

[jkinatl2]

You cannot get HIV through protected sex. You are reliably HIV negative.

You do not have HIV.

How can you give someone something you do not have?

I suspect that your guilt and fear are overriding your logic. And logic and science are the only tools I have on my belt right now.

[Stolen]

Thanks JKinatl2,

Just a few quick follow ups before I pucker off.

(1) How can I be 100% sure that the condoms DID NOT fail during these last 2 episodes (esp with that CSW in May)?

(2) I wanted to ask you why condom manufacturers like Durex, LoveBox, etc all place the phrase "No method of contraception including Condoms provides 100% protection against STDs/HIV" on the back of their boxes? Y'all say that a properly used condom provides 100% protection against HIV? Why this discrepancy then?

(3) In comparison to insertive oral sex, Is condom protected sex a "theoretical risk" as well? Or is proper condom protected sex truly a "No-risk" scenario even in theory?

(4) Are extra safe condoms truly any safer than the regulars?

[Andy Velez]

Stolen, anytime you have sex with anything other than your own hand you are theoretically at risk. That's just reality.

We don't say condoms are 100% guarantee of protection. As long as they are used properly they provide very effective protection, 99.9% of the time. The rest of the risk % is theoretical. That is why manufacturers cover themselves so to speak.

A latex condom properly worn will provide very effective protection. If a condom fails, it's not a subtle event. It ends up looking like a fringed hula hoop on the penis. A failed condom is not about some teeny tiny hole happening.

You need to re-read our lesson about transmission. 
 

[Stolen]

Thanks Andy,

Are theoretical risks, risks that require testing over?

What confuses me is that there's such damning evidence found within Serodiscordant studies that proves that Condoms work as far HIV prevention is concerned. I mean even the likes of Ann, Atlq who're in serodiscordant relationships used condoms and their negative partners stayed negative. When condoms work so well, then why are they still considered "theoretical" risks? Shouldn't we just call them full blown no-risk?

[jkinatl2]

Personally, I hate the term "theoretical risk" when used in safer sex education. Its a scientific term. It means that NOTHING is certain. Asteroids hitting the earth. Zombies.

Aspirin kills dozens of people a year.

Peanuts! Natures threat.

But in the real world. You know the one without the asteroid hitting us? The one without the dead rising from the graves? It consists of real and identifiable risks. You reach into a bag of bananas. How do you know there isn't a tarantula in there? Sometimes... sometimes... there is. And it makes the news. Shockingly, brave souls across the globe buy, sell, fondle and eat bananas.

HIv in the lab can be grown in horrifically strong strains. That's why they use all those hazmat suits, negative pressure rooms, and painful scrub downs to get to those samples. They grow those strains so that they can live long enough in a petri dish to study, experiment on, to develop potential therapies or vaccines.  These strains DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE.  And it takes sheer scientific will to get them to stay viable in a petri dish long enough to see if a treatment works.

It is in that realm of science, co-opted by a skittish mainstream medical profession that loves nothing more than covering it's collective government-funded butt, that promotes the concept of "theoretical risk" without explaining what, exactly that is.

There is no need to test for theoreticall risk. Any more than there is a need to rush to the ER each time you buy a sack of bananas because I tiny spider MIGHT have been in there, MIGHT have been poisonous, and MIGHT have bitten you. Can you honestly live your life that way? Can anyone?

This is, sadly, HIV specific phobia. And you need to address it if you want to live a life that involves healthy physical relationships. I honestly can't see this forum doing you a bit more good.

I consider myself well researched in transmission theory. Can't throw a basketball, but I can understand science. And theoretical risk is simply a way of parsing minutiae between science geeks like myself. Personally, I have no use for it. It is speculation without data.

We are poorly educated in this world, these days. Brought up to believe that 100% and 0% are things that exist. They don't. There is not a 100% chance of ANYTHING. Nor is there a ZERO percent chance of anything. Science, PURE science, cannot allow for mathematical certainty one way or the other. Not in a world which might indeed be one of an untold multiverses, with more variables in any scenario than our monkey brains will ever wrap around.

But we live in this uncertain world. We reach for that banana. We take that aspirin. We step outside our houses. And heaven help us, we dare to like another, complex human being once in a while. Each day we risk out lives in a gazillion ways we never even think about.

Use a condom. You will not get HIV.
Grab that banana. A spider will not attack.
Walk outside. A meteor will not hit you.

This life is too short to spend it in fear.

I just took the theoretical risk that these words were in vain. Please prove that this risk, my fear, is unfounded as well.

*edited for spell check

[greekman22]

wow!!I really loved your words..!they made me smile!you should be psychotherapist for hiv/aids and i really need your help!

[Andy Velez]

That's nice, Greekman. But you are not supposed to be posting in other people's threads. Read the Welcome thread and you'll find our rule is only those who are authorized to do so can write in threads other than their own.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Stolen]

Many Thanks to you, Jkinatl2 

You had me really going there, I reckon your post really knocked things into perspective for me, seriously I'm grateful since the last couple of days have been relatively peaceful without me fretting over my HIV paranoia.

That being said however, I wanted to ask you the likelihood of a condom failure without me knowing it occurred? Is it possible a guy can witness a condom failure without knowing of it? It's been weighing on my mind since that encounter with the commercial sex worker back in May was indeed protected, but I'm doubtful as to whether or not the condom may have failed?

I understand that in the case it did, this tentative no risk situation becomes low risk, does it not?

[RapidRod]

You would know without a doubt that a comdom had failed. There is no guess work needed when a condom fails, it fails catastrophically.

[Stolen]

Rapidrod,

I was just wondering why all the regulars here states that condoms tend to only fail catastrophically? Have you guys read any credible research substantiating this statement? Or by chance have there been any studies on this aspect? I was just curious so as to I may educate myself further in matters of protective sex?

And also, I was wondering if you could be so kind to point me in the right direction as to those published sero-discordant studies where all negative partners remained negative whilst indulging in protected intercourse/unprotected everything else?

[jkinatl2]

REVIEW ARTICLE
Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and many other viruses can be isolated in blood and body fluids, including saliva, and can be transmitted by genital–genital and especially anal–genital sexual activity. The risk of transmission of HIV via oral sexual practices is very low. Unlike other mucosal areas of the body, the oral cavity appears to be an extremely uncommon transmission route for HIV. We present a review of available evidence on the oral–genital transmission of HIV and analyse the factors that act to protect oral tissues from infection, thereby reducing the risk of HIV transmission by oral sex. Among these factors we highlight the levels of HIV RNA in saliva, presence of fewer CD4+ target cells, presence of IgA antibodies in saliva, presence of other infections in the oral cavity and the endogenous salivary antiviral factors lysozyme, defensins, thrombospondin and secretory leucocyte protease inhibitor (SLPI).
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228


AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan, John Sb

We examined HIV infection and estimated the population-attributable risk percentage (PAR%) for HIV associated with fellatio among men who have sex with men (MSM). Among 239 MSM who practised exclusively fellatio in the past 6 months, 50% had three partners, 98% unprotected; and 28% had an HIV-positive partner; no HIV was detected. PAR%, based on the number of fellatio partners, ranges from 0.10% for one partner to 0.31% for three partners. The risk of HIV attributable to fellatio is extremely low.

[Stolen]

Thank you once again JKinatl2,

I was actually referring to the sero-discordant studies done in regards of condom protected sex. Andy mentioned that there were studies done in both hetro & homosexual control environments. I was hoping someone could cite those for my reference.

I assume there haven't been any substantiated studies in regards to condom failure though? as you didn't mention or refer to any source in your aforementioned posting? I guess I wanted to understand as to why all the erudite regulars state condoms to only fail catastrophically? Where did you all gather such an understanding of condom ruptures as to confidently disseminate it as a norm within your risk assessments within the domain of protected sex? I would like to better understand this conceptualization, thanks.

[jkinatl2]

Both studies I referenced contained source material from the two serodiscordant studies where couples used condoms for anal and/or vaginal sex and did not use condoms for oral sex. You might want to start at aegis.com if you wish to find the source material.

As far as condom failure is concerned, I shall attempt to research that in the future. But I am tired tonight, and still rather sick.

Here is what I found thus far regarding condoms:

I. De Vincenzi, "A Longitudinal Study of Human Immunodeficiency Virus Transmission by Heterosexual Partners," The New England Journal of Medicine, 331, no. 6 (Aug. 11, 1994), p. 341-6.

 A. Saracco, et al., "Man-to-Woman Sexual Transmission of HIV: Longitudinal Study of 343 Steady Partners of Infected Men," Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes, 6, no. 5, 1993, p. 499.
# U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Latex Condoms and Sexually Transmitted Diseases-Prevention Messages (Atlanta, GA: CDC, 2001), p. 2.


Sexuality Information and education Council of the United States (SIECUS) (2002) 'Fact Sheet: The truth about condoms', November

Nordenberg T. (1998) 'Condoms: barriers to bad news', FDA Consumer Magazine, March-April

NIAIDD (2001) 'Workshop Summary: Scientific evidence on condom effectiveness for sexually transmitted disease (STD) prevention, June 12-13, 200, Hyatt Dulles Airport, Hernon, Virginia', July 20

http://www.avert.org/condoms.htm

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:wg8L16lpX9oJ:www.caps.ucsf.edu/pubs/presentations/pdf/shafer.pdf+page%3Dshafer+oral&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:BK1Z-xbmb6gJ:www.caps.ucsf.edu/research/portfolio/2004/HOT.pdf+page%3Dshafer+oral&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/hiv/dn1156

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Condom.html


Sir, this is absolutely all I am willing to do for you. If you have further queries, I suggest you roll up your own scientific sleeves, invest in some research on reputable first-tiered peer-reviewed journals and sites such as aegis.com yourself.

If I can do it, you certainly can.

[Stolen]

You have no idea how much I appreciate your time JKinatl2, thank you once again. As far as research considerations go, you truly have done more than enough, I'm good to go on my own now as you've pointed me in the right direction.

I was wondering what your personal opinion on the matter is though, as I see you're more than well-versed when it comes to matters of protective intercourse? In regards to condom failure always being obvious, do you agree with this notion? Andy & Ann often describe it as a "fringed hula hoop",  subsequently however I noticed a post by Ann in another thread stating that she never had one fail on her personally. You see what I mean? I'm trying to get to the source material that provided y'all with this concept of a failed condom looking like a fringed hula hoop, I'm sure you all must have read it somewhere as to aptly state it frequently here on AIDSmeds, correct?
 

[Ann]

Stolen,

Why are you still here banging on and on about condom failure? We've told you as much about it as we possibly can. I know that broken condoms look obvious, despite never having one fail myself, because I've spoken to plenty of people who HAVE had them break. The fringed hula skirt is the imagery most often used.

I'm giving you that time out I warned you about ages ago. You would have been timed out a few days ago, but I was on a break.

Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann