HIV AND ME ON BBC2 (UK)

[newbie76]

I couldn't do it.

I watched 40 minutes of it and in the end I had to turn off the TV. I then went to the bedroom and found my bf lying there, crying. Terrified.

I don't understand why they had to do such a crude and scary program on HIV. Showing people dying from it, a guy who's now blind because of it and don't talk about all those that are doing well on medication.

I suppose it's to scare HIV neg people into using a condom, which I can understand, but what about us HIV + people? How is this documentary suppose to make us feel?

I try to inform myself and I was trying to find an explanation for what I was seeing (for example, the guy that was dying said he contracted the virus 25 years ago when antiretrovirals hadn't been discovered yet), but my bf refuses to look into it too much and therefore seeing this shocked him.

Has anyone seen the program and what do you think of it?

Are we just telling ourself a nice fairy tale to carry on with our life, when in fact most of us will end up like that young guy that was dying in an hospice at 43, or have they chosen especially to show the worse part of this disease?

[Miss Philicia]

Well, I didn't see the show obviously, but when I read that a quarter of gay men in NYC are HIV+ I hope that they make these TV shows as frightening as possible.  It's a mess that these amounts of people still get infected after 25 years of HIV.

Reality can be scary sometime.  It doesn't have to mean that someone that is diagnosed with HIV is going to keel over in the street and expire.  We all know that for the overwhelming majority of people HIV treatment does in fact work, though the side effects are still horribly troubling for many.

[Matty the Damned]

N00b,

I expect our own Goderator Ann will have more to say about this. But when you ask:

Are we just telling ourself a nice fairy tale to carry on with our life, when in fact most of us will end up like that young guy that was dying in an hospice at 43, or have they chosen especially to show the worse part of this disease?

I have to say that you have seen the worst part of this disease. Alas that part of the disease is still all too common a reality for many people, even members here.

But be of good cheer, it may not happen to you and if it does, you'd be surprised at the inner strength you'll find to deal with it.

MtD
(Who is yet to see the programme in question)

[penguin]

maybe i missed the point, maybe i were just tired.. but felt like it had no soul? after, just kinda left thinking no, mr fry, that somehow weren't quite right

plus, "hiv sufferer" ?? please, yr vocabulary is bigger than that

perhaps next one will be better. web interviews good though

kate

[manchesteruk]

I'm sorry you struggled to watch it newbie.  It sounds like Stephen Fry has decided not to sugar coat HIV and is showing what is the reality is for a lot of people.  I think a big danger in this country is a lot of people have become complacent don't think it's a big deal anymore. 25% of 16-21 year olds in this country I think it is think HIV is a curable illness, so maybe a program like this was important?  I'll sort out a torrent or something similar for everyone who couldn't watch the programme tonight.

[Just John]

I thought that it was an excellently presented and reasonably well balanced program and quite frankly I'm glad that it scared you.

I also hope that it had the same effect upon all the other complacent fools that it was aimed at. How many people under the age of 30 now believe that HIV is now such a ‘manageable’ disease that they regard it as nothing more inconvenient and just as treatable as the common cold?

I just watched it with my neggie partner and he was also shocked; because like you seem to have done, he’d bought completely into this ‘well you’re on meds and so now you’ll live happily ever after for your three score years and ten’ scenario which is portrayed so effectively now both by the media and some in the medical profession.

Now don’t get me wrong it’s not all doom and gloom, meds can and do give most of us a good prospect of many more years of happy and useful life but this is certainly not true for all. Some can’t tolerate the side effects which can be severe in one person and unnoticeable in the next. There is always the chance that for some reason your current regime will stop being effective and need to be changed, how often this happens is as varied as the wind but what happens if your options run out?

It’s important to remain optimistic about your own personal outcome and to remember that your own behaviour from here on in could heavily influence that outcome. But it’s also important to remember that not everyone will be so fortunate, if you read through some of the posts on this forum you might realise just how lucky you are – for now!

John.

[LPinUK]

I watched it.  I didnt really learn anything from it, maybe because I dont think it was aimed at a person who is already poz.

I think the guy who was close to death was shown to emphasise the fact that people still die from HIV/AIDS, even with todays advances in treatment.

If Id watched that soon after my diagnosis I would of been terrified.  I think I was more alarmed by
the facts such as 1000 people a day die in South Africa of AIDS, shocking statistic.

[keyite]

Newbie, sorry to hear you found it so upsetting - quite emotional to watch but I have to say I rather liked it. Yes, it was warts 'n' all, but I think that other side of the glossy pharma adverts with happy, healthy positive people needs to be told. Those that are suffering don't deserve to be brushed under the carpet - they're part of the story too. The population at large really needs to have their increasing tendency to ignore prevention and general HIV misconceptions firmly shaken up. Perhaps it focused a little too much on the negatives, but really I think it presented a fair share of pozzies who were doing pretty well health-wise. And we've yet to see part two next week.

I am so full of admiration for those people that came forward to be interviewed (including Ann) - very inspirational, each and every one of them!

[newbie76]

I thought that it was an excellently presented and reasonably well balanced program and quite frankly I'm glad that it scared you.

I also hope that it had the same effect upon all the other complacent fools that it was aimed at. How many people under the age of 30 now believe that HIV is now such a ‘manageable’ disease that they regard it as nothing more inconvenient and just as treatable as the common cold?

I just watched it with my neggie partner and he was also shocked; because like you seem to have done, he’d bought completely into this ‘well you’re on meds and so now you’ll live happily ever after for your three score years and ten’ scenario which is portrayed so effectively now both by the media and some in the medical profession.

Now don’t get me wrong it’s not all doom and gloom, meds can and do give most of us a good prospect of many more years of happy and useful life but this is certainly not true for all. Some can’t tolerate the side effects which can be severe in one person and unnoticeable in the next. There is always the chance that for some reason your current regime will stop being effective and need to be changed, how often this happens is as varied as the wind but what happens if your options run out?

It’s important to remain optimistic about your own personal outcome and to remember that your own behaviour from here on in could heavily influence that outcome. But it’s also important to remember that not everyone will be so fortunate, if you read through some of the posts on this forum you might realise just how lucky you are – for now!

John.

Why would you be glad it scared me? I understand it's good if it scares HIV neg people in using a condom, but what good it is to put more negativity on someone that is already poz and already has to deal with so much?!?

Talk about closing the stable once the horse is gone...

[Miss Philicia]

I'll sort out a torrent or something similar for everyone who couldn't watch the programme tonight.

yes, thank you

[Life]

Well the UK is at least looking at hiv/aids in a serious way...  I can't recall a receint documentary in the US other than a PBS Frontline documentary for 25 years of hiv a year ago or so...  I wonder if this Fry doc would play over in the US or at least be up somewhere as a link...?

Eric

[northernguy]

I haven't seen it, so can't comment directly.  My two cents is thats it a fine line between scaring people into practicing safe sex vs. increasing the stigma for those of us who live with HIV.  Hopefully Ann's interview plus the others will create a balance to the story of someone dying young.

[Miss Philicia]

englishgirl on here PM'd me a very detailed play by play while it was airing and it sounded suitable, and contrary to may earlier comments on the "Ann" thread seemed to respectably cover all impacted sections of society well.  I look forward to seeing it and I would cut/paste what she told me but since it was in a PM that's not cool.  Y

Eric, manchesteruk said he would perhaps make a torrent tracker for the show.  If he does this we can try and teach you how to download such a file if you don't know how to.

[StrongGuy]

Newbie don't get freaked - no one is telling you a fairy tale. Many do well on treatments and others do not for various reasons as noted on these boards. If you ever come to NYC I'll show you a smashing diverse group of pozzies here -- many of whom are doing well and not living a fairy tale.

From a quick google search it sounds like Fry was inspired to do the documentary because of complaceny which is leading to an increase in infections and it angered him. I'll wait to see how balanced I think it was if I get around to seeing it someday.

Take it as a lesson of learning about a slice of the HIV community the documentarian chose to feature and embrace it as a added knowledge that will make you more understanding of the diversity of HIV and respect each person's unique journey. And look at the scenarios that scared you and use it to empower yourself to take great care of yourself and stay on top of your health so that you are doing everything you can to remain healthy for a long time.

Keep your chin up!

[newt]

Despite the impressive Mr Fry, and several interesting interviews, the standard of fact-checking was poor and use of statistics fell into the usual traps (tell me people, what is right about this: "...[HIV continues to rise in the UK in] heterosexuals, gay men and black Africans")...his manic depression documentary was so subtle, maybe it takes an HIV-positive person to get the range of experience, if TV can capture that.

- matt

[komnaes]

.., the standard of fact-checking was poor and use of statistics fell into the usual traps ..

Hmmmmmm, a not so good review from Newt ... I am getting a bit worried.

Is it a 2 part series? I hope the next one will be a more satisfying viewing for you Newt.

Shaun

[Dragonette]

I had mixed feelings too. I felt like they talked too much about promiscuity, I didn't understand why they needed to rehash the story of the poz guy who had sex with 800 women or why they told about the young guy who had sex with 5 poz men to get "pozzed up", and also there was this hetero woman saying that people got a kick out of playing "Russian roulette" with her and called herself "the most exciting ride"?! Also another thing I didn't like, is this poz teenage girl who was born with this coming into the clinic and being told off by the nurse (although in a friendly way) "[remember to have sex] with a condom!". What I felt was that they tried to paint this whole thing as a promiscuity issue, even the poz guy in S. Africa was blaming the people's behavior, instead of that disgusting Health Minister who refuses to relate AIDS to HIV.

I liked the interent bits more than the actual program actually. I watched Ann from work and she was excellent. They should have made a series of portraits of people living with HIV instead of one messy program that tries to capture everything and sends mized messages: Fry kept saying, since the drugs this and since the drugs that, but they the hospice manager says "it [AIDS] is here as much as ever". I have a feeling, that becuase of the promiscuity focus of the show (showing drunk people cruising the bars etc) they wanted poz interviewees who fit the bill, so Ann's message of "all I did was love somebody" was not hardcore enough, because Fry even asked the dying guy in the hopsice something like "you partied in those days", when those days were in fact before the epidemic. And he was also questioning the near blind friend, "how could you two do that?!".

then again, he had that gay guy who's had unprotected sex with 100s of people tested negative on the show so that kind of defeats the main message. By showing this guy neg and then going to "Mr AIDS" (bouncer who slept with 800 women), and then going to "what many people are embarassed to say, that a lot of HIV comes here from Africa", it looked like he was looking for the root or source of the problem. And not tying it up enough to other STDs and general sexual behavior.

I am trying to think clearly but my writing is as jumbled and contradictory as the program... oh well random thoughts. I guess this is such a colossal topic it's impossible to send a unified message and that would just reduce it. I felt that Fry did his best, there were just some things I didn't like. And heavy editing... I am sure that poz woman in the country (the "Russian roulette") said many more things, and if I am not mistaken he mentioned that she was afraid of the exposure, but now just this aspect of her life is publicized, that's a real shame. I think everyone was so incredibly brave to get on this show though. Having seen what these shows do, I will never do it, they just edit and cut everything and there is no control, it's this type of manipulated exposure that is so scary. I think the teeange girl and the older woman, and the Zimbabwean woman, and also the hetero Scottish guy at the beginning, had a good exposure, but not everyone... I really feel for that woman in the country now.

[carousel]

I was expecting more from the programme and Stephen Fry's presenting of this subject.  It had the feeling of a scatter gun approach.

Was it me, or did he seem to not understand why people continue to catch HIV, which seemed to hinder the programme going beyond that shock that they do.  I suppose I was expecting a more complex and detailed programme, rather than a re-telling of a story we all know.

I wonder how much of the programme was of George Michael and if a different picture would have emerged.

I admire all those who took part in the programme and online.  Stepping into the spotlight and presenting their lives is something I am not ready to do yet.

Maybe we are not the audience this documentary was aimed at?

[Cliff]

I thought the program was good.  Yes, a bit preachy in certain areas (HIV the result of promiscuity and irresponsible behaviour...."I'm ashamed of my people" bit).  Yes, a bit sensationalistic in other areas (talk of gift-givers, 800 sexual partners dude).  But overall it was mostly compassionate and thought provoking.  There wasn't anything new in the programme, but then again I don't think it was directed at me (us).  Perhaps there was much new to those that the programme was primarily directed at.

I respect and admire those who have shared their stories (Ann in particular)!

And now I finally know who Steven Fry is.

[BT65]

I would like to see this.  We haven't had a good HIV/AIDS documentary in years here in the US (at least my part of the US).  I'm not sure how good "shock" value is though, as when "And The Band Played On" came out, it didn't seem to stop people from having unprotected sex.  Just sayin'

[englishgirl]

i thought it was v good.

think it's difficult to cover so much in such a short time but my understanding of what this first episode of the 2 was about was to investigate why people were being compacent and what was going on these days in the attitude of people to hiv. i had no problem with the unprotected sexual promiscuity stuff cos that is a huge problem these days in the uk, and lets be honest the more people you shag the higher liklihood you'll be shagging someone who's poz and doesnt know it. and i think that was well-balanced by all the people who were featured who contracted in long term relationships. as for the 'russian roulette' stuff - i think that was a very important bit to include. it really underlines just how complacent people are in the 'it wont happen to me' attitude. i know a woman who is a LTS whose young relatives are still out there having unprotected sex cos despite the fact their aunt has it they still dont think it will happen to them.

had a couple of issues about sensationalism and maybe coulda done without the bugchaser bit, but that is after all an issue which shows quite how fucked up some people's attitudes have become regarding the 'having hiv is no big thing you become a member of a special community and just take a pill a day' viewpoint.

thought the stuff about the people being harassed and attacked was v good, and hopefully it made the general public think twice about their attitudes. hopefully the next programme (which i believe focuses on what it's like to live with hiv) will address some issues around discrimination by employers etc and how difficult it is for some poz peole to remain in work due to side effects.

i didnt find it scary in the least, if anything i was thankful that the programme didnt do the 'isnt it wonderful we've all got meds now' line. newbie im sorry you did find it frightening but some of that is maybe cos youre a newbie and still processing the fact of the disgnosis. the reality of the matter is that hiv/aids will kill you eventually, unless something else gets there first. yes, drugs have changed our life expectancy and quality of a lot of that life, but theyre not a cure or a magic potion. understanding the reality of your situation is not about being negative, it's about acceptance of your status, understanding the possibilities, and doing the best you can to be as healthy as you can. im with just john on his views, but maybe for now this is the bit you should focus on:

It's important to remain optimistic about your own personal outcome and to remember that your own behaviour from here on in could heavily influence that outcome. But it's also important to remember that not everyone will be so fortunate, if you read through some of the posts on this forum you might realise just how lucky you are - for now!

one last thing i took away from it all (which is one of the things i feel very passionately about anyway) is the needless death of the guy who was so ill and they did every other test EXCEPT the hiv test. once again showing how blinkered the medical profession are about not testing people who they dont perceive to be 'at risk'. if they had tested him he probably would still be here today.

philly, it's ok with me if you forward/post the programme breakdown to anyone who wants it

much love to all

[komnaes]

philly, it's ok with me if you forward/post the programme breakdown to anyone who wants it

Or perhaps you can just copy it here Englishgirl... please  ... some of us are anxious to know more because we don't know when and how we can catch it.

Thanks in advance, Shaun

[Dragonette]

Yes, must add in relation to English Girl's comment, that although I was able to watch this live, I don't have the insider's prespective since I don't live in the UK.  I'd also like to see the breakdown, that would be interesting.

[Miss Philicia]

I would like to see this.  We haven't had a good HIV/AIDS documentary in years here in the US (at least my part of the US).  I'm not sure how good "shock" value is though, as when "And The Band Played On" came out, it didn't seem to stop people from having unprotected sex.  Just sayin'

manchesteruk and I are working on a way to do this -- he has the file digitized on his hard drive, and I have some free "public" space on an internet .Mac account.  I'm just waiting on him to come on line and read my message to him with the instructions on how to upload the file.  Once that is done I can show all of you how to access the file and download it to your own computers.

[komnaes]

manchesteruk and I are working on a way to do this -- he has the file digitized on his hard drive, and I have some free "public" space on an internet .Mac account.  I'm just waiting on him to come on line and read my message to him with the instructions on how to upload the file.  Once that is done I can show all of you how to access the file and download it to your own computers.

Hey Philly

I also have a Mac account so if there are anything I can do to help let me know.

Shaun

[Miss Philicia]

englishgirl play-by-play:

programme summary, just for you:
he's spoken to a hetero guy (who was allegedly infected by his gf who knew she'd had it for 2 yrs and never told him)
and now he's discussing with his ex & first love all his friends who have died and how all his gay friends died, and how his ex is a LTS
now he's talking about freddy mercury
just asked about what gay guys do now
talking to leading dr in the uk who sees mostly gay guys and now interviewing a gay guy who is going for an hiv test
bless s fry he's just said he is disappointed in 'his people' for having unsafe sex. 2000 gay men contracted last year.
2/5 of young people (both gay & straight) in the uk were pissed and had unsafe sex with a new partner last year
he's now in the gay village in manchester quizzing guys about whether they ask partners their status
now he's speaking to someone who's friend had a gangbang with someone who deliberately went out to get gifted, and then he put a buttplug in to ensure no infected semen got out
now he's in a hospice talking to someone (gay guy) who's on his last legs discussing gay promiscuity these days and how they wont learn from this guy's experiences (the guy died 3 wks later)
now he's off to see heteros shagging around (teenage pregnancy capital of europe, 60-70% rise in stds in last ten years etc etc), telling the story of a guy who turned out to be poz and slept with hundreds of women & infected a fair few. now he's going around giving out condoms and speaking to young people
now he's chatting to a women in her late 50s. slagging off straight men cos they wont wear condoms. and she's met tons guys who want to shag her bareback even knowing her status.
400% rise in hetero infections in last ten years.
now he's talking to a white woman who used to be married to an african guy. who got really ill after a few years and was admitted to hospital tons of times and the hosp said he was gonna die in hours of a brain swelling. and only 5 months later the post mortem said he's died of an aids related brain condition. she's poz too. their kid is neg.
now he's on about africans. 1/3 of diagnoses last year in uk are africans, most immigrants
slagging off unfaithful bastard husbands in sub-saharan africa who even when they know theyre poz still have sex with their wives bareback as the wives are their 'property'
now he's talking to a WHO epidimiologist about the culture of multiple sex partners in africa, esp among weathier people. ie not about poverty about how people (esp men but increasingly women too) behave - multiple and concurrent partners - which spreads the disease so fast
now he's off to south africa...slagging of the govt policy...now he's on about how the SA govt wont provide drugs cos they dont believe hiv leads to aids, and arguing with a govt minister
now talking to the best known public figure in SA, who is poz and trying to educate kids to use condoms, cos adults wont listen.
now he's back in the uk going on about safe sex and saying its important for all groups. saying why are people ignoring that.
now he's with a 50 year old very posh english woman who got it from her 2nd husband a few years ago, and does poz speaking, who has been really badly harassed by her neighbours. and her kids have been attacked too. theyre talking about stigma discrimination and violence. SFry is shocked that she gets hatred not support. she's talking about how she's not allowed to live near her family cos she cant emigrate to them. 75% of british people have said they dont want to give money to aids charities. she's saying how much she gets from poz speaking. SFry is talking about the stigma she faces.
now he's chatting to a teenager who was born with it. but was only discovered to be poz at age 11 when she was really ill. she's talking about being harassed and attacked by other kids and by parents. now she's with her bf (bless them they are such chavs) and talking about how his mates are really unsupportive and say she'll give him aids. she's talking about how she cant not speak up. theyre on about how people need to be educated to fight stigma and ignorance.
now he's on about all the people who havent been tested and so dont know theyve got it (estimated 1/2 to a 1/3)

[hudstar]

I couldn't do it.

I watched 40 minutes of it and in the end I had to turn off the TV. I then went to the bedroom and found my bf lying there, crying. Terrified.

I don't understand why they had to do such a crude and scary program on HIV. Showing people dying from it, a guy who's now blind because of it and don't talk about all those that are doing well on medication.

I suppose it's to scare HIV neg people into using a condom, which I can understand, but what about us HIV + people? How is this documentary suppose to make us feel?

I try to inform myself and I was trying to find an explanation for what I was seeing (for example, the guy that was dying said he contracted the virus 25 years ago when antiretrovirals hadn't been discovered yet), but my bf refuses to look into it too much and therefore seeing this shocked him.

Has anyone seen the program and what do you think of it?

Are we just telling ourself a nice fairy tale to carry on with our life, when in fact most of us will end up like that young guy that was dying in an hospice at 43, or have they chosen especially to show the worse part of this disease?

They just showed reality because most of society has forgotten the realities of HIV. We are not being told "a nice fairy tale" - our doctors are there to keep us as healthy in mind and body as long as possible. This reminds me of what my doctor did a few years back to a group of young guys who believed that all the "old crowd" were now dead and that HIV was not really a problem. They believed if they got infected that they could take a pill that works like panadol. Right? .....Wrong! He took them to the AIDS ward at the local inner city hospital. To date - there is NO cure for HIV and people do live longer as a result of HAART.

[hudstar]

Well the UK is at least looking at hiv/aids in a serious way...  I can't recall a receint documentary in the US other than a PBS Frontline documentary for 25 years of hiv a year ago or so...  I wonder if this Fry doc would play over in the US or at least be up somewhere as a link...?

Eric

Australia never touches the subject of HIV in the media unless it is a derogatory homophobic news item. I think Regan mentioned in her blog (on her recent visit here) that the average attitude on the street towards HIV is that HIV is still viewed as a gay disease!  I often react to 6th page bottom column news items that are nothing less than manipulative stories. I forward my comments on to the news paper in question and forward the article on the the AIDS Council. Neither reply! Seems activism is unfashionable. Very scary!

[Miss Philicia]

The file is currently being uploaded by manchesteruk to my account.  It's ~4-500mb I think he said so it will take a few hours to do.

[keyite]

Just came across the BBC's message board devoted to the programme:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhealth/F8332156

At the very least it looks like it has been informative and thought-provoking for the non-poz audience...

[Iggy]

The file is currently being uploaded by manchesteruk to my account.  It's ~4-500mb I think he said so it will take a few hours to do.

Thank you Philly and Manchester for doing this.

[manchesteruk]

I couldn't watch the program last night because I was at the football but saw it this evening.  Overall I thought it was good so far.  I certainly don't think it was aimed at poz folk more towards what Stephen Fry sees as people forgetting the realities of HIV and the stigma that still surrounds it in this country and I think he attempts to tackle it pretty well.  My only criticism really is I think he has maybe tried to skim across a lot of subjects without going deeply into any of them really maybe that might change in the second episode.  He does hint towards that at the end suggesting that next week it will concentrate more on people actually living with HIV.

Incidentally the doctor interviewed about 10 minutes in Dr Wilkins is my ID doctor he's very impressive.  He was extremely supportive when I asked if he could help me enroll on the LTNP study in America.

Chris

[Miss Philicia]

(link to video deleted because I don't want to exceed the download limit on my .mac account)

[Just John]

Maybe I used the wrong phrase Newbie, bit if I did I still can’t think of a better one.

I don’t see that getting better acquainted with the facts about your disease and treatment is in any way negative, even if this means opening your eyes to the possibility that your treatment might not work as well as you’d hoped or that the drugs themselves could cause problems, and that these problems could have serious implications.

I also have to disagree strongly with your assertion that there was nothing in the program about people doing well on meds, the young lady who was born positive, was she not doing well? And what about the lady who was giving the school lectures after being infected by her unfaithful husband, was she also not doing well? Like I said I think that the program was reasonably well balanced, yes it showed some unpleasant aspects but this was balanced by, erm well, the positive.

I think that, as others have said, that this program was not necessarily aimed at us pozzies anyhow but at the general complacency shown by the public at large. You don’t say how old you and your significant other are Newbie but having just taken the time to read through some of your previous posts I gather that you weren’t too aware of what was happening back in the 80’s and are now having to deal with a large amount of unfamiliar information about this strange disease. And that is precisely what this program is highlighting, you and your Bf, as gay guys should have been better informed about HIV and all its risks than the general public. Every gay bar and club that I’ve ever been in has posters and leaflets freely available for anyone to read; how many young guys (or girls) now take the time to acquaint themselves about even the basic facts of the disease and its transmission?

Your Bf might hide in the bedroom crying, if all of this is so new then he must be terrified, you too. But sooner or later you will both have to stop hiding and make decisions which you can only make properly once you have the true facts, warts and all. These decisions, whether about treatment options or lifestyle changes can greatly affect your chances of co-existing happily with your bug, so it’s important that you have a chance to assess ALL the relevant information before making them.

In closing, (I’m even boring myself now), I apologise if I caused you any offence; that was not my intention. If the program and/or my comments has shocked you and opened your eyes to the fact that antiretrovirals are not necessarily a panacea – then I am glad.

By the way please re-read the last paragraph of my first reply.

John.

[HIVworker]

This entire show is available in 6 parts online. No new news for people here. Bug chasers, South African denia, HIV has not gone awayl. Still I thought it was good.

R

[milker]

I saw part 1? 59 minutes? I'm a bit confused is that a two part or six part series?

Anyway.. I agree with HIVworker. No new news for me. As for the "faces of AIDS" maybe it shocks people that haven't seen them in the 80s. What bothered me is that Stephen Fry is often "amazed" at many things that an educated gay man having seen it all should already know. I must hope that his amazement is just a script.

What I really liked what the woman saying, about condom use: "The most lame excuse in the world being that it feels better without.. well I can tell you for sure and for certain, it feels *  better making love without HIV".

That struck me deep because I'm one of them that said "it feels better without a condom". It surely felt better without HIV, I wholeheartedly agree.

* I didn't understand what she said exactly. It's at minute 29 on the video.

[Miss Philicia]

What bothered me is that Stephen Fry is often "amazed" at many things that an educated gay man having seen it all should already know. I must hope that his amazement is just a script.

I'm sure much of it is dramatic effect.  But he may not troll around on manhunt and not know that butt plugs are used studiously to keep the rectum seeped in that night's "gift"

[milker]

I'm sure much of it is dramatic effect.  But he may not troll around on manhunt and not know that butt plugs are used studiously to keep the rectum seeped in that night's "gift"

aw come on.

[Miss Philicia]

wut

[milker]

wut

he's amazed that gay people don't use condoms, he's amazed that str8 people don't use condoms, he's amazed that there are bug chasers, he's amazed that south Africa's director of health thinks that hiv doesn't cause aids, he's amazed that he can get an hiv test in 15mn, he's amazed at too many things that are not amazing.

I want to see the rest of it, because i'm, personally amazed there was nothing about support issues in part 1 of the series. I applaud him for doing this, but I wish he was more into hammering the facts into people's heads instead of being amazed of the facts.

Milker.

[Miss Philicia]

that's not what my "wut" was about

[vokz]

So what if there was dramatic effect? The point of the programme wasn't to educate Stephen Fry about what he already knows.

Overall, I think it was a spectacularly good programme to kick off two months of BBC network-wide HIV awareness and education.

Maybe it wasn't comfortable viewing for those of us who are gay and HIV-positive; but then we weren't the intended audience and the message shouldn't be watered down just to make us feel proud of our 'community’.

I don't wish this pesky infection on anyone, so I'm just pleased that HIV prevention and awareness is getting the attention it deserves to be getting; because let’s face it, we have gotten it massively wrong so far.

[komnaes]

You can download the video here now:

click here

If you have a good high speed broadband connection it should take 15 minutes to complete the download.  If you have DSL I would think no longer than 30 (?)... someone else can weigh in on that.

Shaun kisses Chris' and Philly's hands repeatedly for making it possible for us outside of the UK to have a chance of watching this.

[md]

What bothered me is that Stephen Fry is often "amazed" at many things that an educated gay man having seen it all should already know. I must hope that his amazement is just a script.

While I can understand that some of Steven Fry's observations may have come across as being a little naieve I don't think that there is any inherent contradiction in knowing something to be the case and still being "amazed" by it.

From a purely rational perspective (which, I believe, is where Steven Fry was coming from) it *is* quite amazing that otherwise intelligent people who are fully aware of the risks still engage in unsafe sex.

I know that I am still "amazed" that my partner both managed to get himself infected with HIV and (as far as I know) didn't get himself tested for almost 10 years.

But, of course, we shouldn't be amazed because the sad fact is that all of us do dumb things even when we know the risks - something that Fry alluded to when he pointed out that he himself still smokes ...

[komnaes]

I don't understand why they had to do such a crude and scary program on HIV. Showing people dying from it, a guy who's now blind because of it and don't talk about all those that are doing well on medication.

The few shots of patients at end stage AIDS in hospice are unsettling. But I look at it from this angle - if one has spent time in, say, a cancer ward in a hospital, one will see similar faces. I watched 4 of my relatives died of cancer at different stages of my life - my granddad, followed shortly by my grandmum, then recently an aunt and my brother's brother-in-law.

The latter happened last year and he was only in his mid-40s. He a was big man and I visited him in a hospice a week before he departed, he was skinny with a big belly and had the same sort of terrified looks in his eyes I saw in this documentary. The other 3 all spent considerable amount of time (up to 2 years) in and out of hospital and at the end took them months of no doubt lots of suffering, enduring several operations, massive chemotherapy, etc, to, er, die.

So, this is just part of the death process. No one can avoid it - but I guess the stress for us is that we're being told in advance how it would happen to us. Adding side-efforts and the inherent unpredictability of our stats, it can really make life unbearable. I know, it's easy for me to say as I am a newbie and I haven't experienced any of these yet, but I am beginning to make peace with the fact that most likely I will die like one of those poor patients we see in the documentary, maybe in the not so distant future.

No matter how many more years I have left I still hope I could go like my great granny - she just dropped dead one evening while washing dishes in her mid-80s when I was a kid. Before that she hadn't spent a single day on a hospital bed. Everyone said she was blessed.

Anyway, back to the documentary, I think it's a great show. Looking forward to the next one.

And Milker, as far as I know, it's a "Brit" thing to be amazed all the time...

Shaun

[Miss Philicia]

So what if there was dramatic effect? The point of the programme wasn't to educate Stephen Fry about what he already knows.

Overall, I think it was a spectacularly good programme to kick off two months of BBC network-wide HIV awareness and education.

Maybe it wasn't comfortable viewing for those of us who are gay and HIV-positive; but then we weren't the intended audience and the message shouldn't be watered down just to make us feel proud of our 'community’.

I don't wish this pesky infection on anyone, so I'm just pleased that HIV prevention and awareness is getting the attention it deserves to be getting; because let’s face it, we have gotten it massively wrong so far.

Indeed, I think most here are simply looking at the documentary from the entirely wrong perspective.  It was NOT made to please the ears and eyes of the HIV infected folks around the world.  In that respect it was an entirely decent program.  Sure we can quibble about little artistic flourishes throughout and whether they were overwrought.  Or I can laugh at how many times Stephen said "SHOCKING!"... but whatever.

And I don't find seeing an end stage AIDS sufferer shocking in the least.  I mean come on folks, THIS IS REALITY HERE.  Yes, you could very well end up like that, though the chances are much smaller these days.  MUCH.  I really don't know what to make of these statements.  Haven't you gay guys seen such things before, either in real life or on some other TV show about AIDS?  wtf?  And for that matter have you not ever had an extremely ill relative in a hospice?  Death is part of life... it's quite natural really.

[milker]

In that respect it was an entirely decent program.  Sure we can quibble about little artistic flourishes throughout and whether they were overwrought.

Agreed

[dixieman]

I would love to see it... too many people forget that hiv is a disease and eventually the disease progresses to a point of no return... the body can only take so much and eventually it will give out!

[Life]

Well this round really did'nt take me anywhere very fast..    I hope Fry gets round to the otherside next time..  Hope for those living with this disease. 

Pharma and what the are doing about it?
Goverment and what they are doing about it?
Insurance and what they are doing about it?

If he say's "Amazingly Managable" in the next segment..  Im going to be pissed...

Eric

[milker]

If he say's "Amazingly Managable" in the next segment..  Im going to be pissed...

lol

I hope he talks about support too. Websites, local groups, organizations, etc. I'm sure there are many people watching this that are HIV+ or thinking they may be HIV+ and want to know where to get help.

Milker.