Atripla vs. Complera

[d-boy86]

I'm current on Atripla, but yesterday my doctor recommended that maybe I should switch over to Complera? What are any other benefits of switching besides the low side effects?

[Miss Philicia]

What problems are you having on Atripla?

[d-boy86]

Not really having any issues, but some nights after a couple glasses of wine, I may forget to take my Atripla and not realize it until the morning. Of course I'll take it right away, but the feeling I get an hour or two after feels like I've smoked an entire bucket of pot. While the feeling is okay, if I was in bed, it's annoying as hell when I'm sitting at my desk at work.

[darryaz]

Better solution:  Don't forget to take your pill at night.  (or if it only happens once a month or so just skip that dose)

[jkinatl2]

Or scale back on the wine at night.

Holy cow. You are going to need to change some parts of your life to accommodate this treatment. I am a little chagrined that your doctor is willing to swap meds for, pardon me, such a lame reason. Sure there are a LOT of combos. But I bet there are also a lot of reasons to miss doses.

Sorry to sound unsympathetic. Please remember I come from a time when people had watch-alarms that went off every four hours around the clock so that they could take soul-destroying amounts of AZT monotherapy.

I did not think we had come far enough to toss a regimen because a person couldn't be bothered to set an alarm or use a pill sorter or, you know, take responsibility to take these life saving meds.

[mitch777]

Please remember I come from a time when people had watch-alarms that went off every four hours around the clock so that they could take soul-destroying amounts of AZT monotherapy.

I remember those horrible days!

[texaninnyc87]

On another note, maybe you should look into stribild.
It's a new once a day treatment. I take it every morning with breakfast and dont think it really has an effect on me mentally. also, so far its shown to be slightly more effective and tolerable than atripla.
something to think about it!

[jkinatl2]

On another note, maybe you should look into stribild.
It's a new once a day treatment. I take it every morning with breakfast and dont think it really has an effect on me mentally. also, so far its shown to be slightly more effective and tolerable than atripla.
something to think about it!

From what I gather, neither efficacy nor tolerance was an issue. I submit the issue is the OPs unwillingness to assimilate their diagnosis and related treatment into his paradigm. If that is the case, NO treatment will work.

[texaninnyc87]

sounds about right.

[d-boy86]

None of you answered my question. SMH.

I simply asked what are your thoughts on both medications? Toxicity, benefits, etc. I didn't come here to be judged. I'm fully aware of the mistakes I've made. Which is why I came here to reach out to you guys and ask for your thoughts on Complera.

I'm already dealing with a lot being newly diagnosed.

Thank you.

[texaninnyc87]

All i know about complera is that is requires a 400 calorie meal. As i said, I'm on stribild which is working great for me and can be taken in the morning with little to no effects on mood/mental capacity.From doing some digging around on here i'm sure you can find what you need to know about complera. Please feel free to message me if you have any questions about stribild or anything. Sorry for the judgmental tones, just like dealing with your diagnosis you'll find these forums take a bit of getting used to as well, as they are full of people with varied histories and personalities. hope you work everything out!

[jkinatl2]

Not judging you. But it would be dismissive and condescending not to point out the elephant in your posts.

Living with HIV is still not a walk in the proverbial park. I suggest you grow a thicker skin as soon as you are able. If you think I'm an asshole then I submit your tenure on this forum will not be the coddling experience you appear to expect. I'm actually one of the nice guys. And with twenty years' experience there might actually be some stuff worth listening to - even, perhaps especially if it makes you defensive and uncomfortable.

[d-boy86]

Not judging you. But it would be dismissive and condescending not to point out the elephant in your posts.

Living with HIV is still not a walk in the proverbial park. I suggest you grow a thicker skin as soon as you are able. If you think I'm an asshole then I submit your tenure on this forum will not be the coddling experience you appear to expect. I'm actually one of the nice guys. And with twenty years' experience there might actually be some stuff worth listening to - even, perhaps especially if it makes you defensive and uncomfortable.

You seriously have a problem. I came here seeking advice, yet again, you come off as an asshole "judging". Not everyone's ride in the HIV park is the same, so I wish you would stop thinking it is. Tough skin is something I have, but I have a low tolerance to have someone talk down to me who doesn't even know who the hell I am. I asked a simple question about Complera, now maybe your comprehension skills are slightly off, and maybe that is something you should work on. Don't come trying to sit at a table when no seats have been giving.

You see how many fucks I give about your opinion now? NONE!

[newt]

To be constructive and practical.

1. If you are gonna have a glass of wine or two, then you need some meds you can take beforehand if you forget to take them often after a drink.

2. Complera will be somewhat better than Atripla on the tripping according to the studies and post-marketing experience. Some people do find it still affects their mood though. It needs proper food to work but can be taken any time of day.

- matt (having a glass of wine with supper and meds) the newt

[darryaz]

I didn't mean to sound judgmental.... although some of my younger friends have told me I tend to be just that.

I really just wanted to suggest another option to you. 

As for your question about Complera, I don't have any experience there so I can't help.

[d-boy86]

To be constructive and practical.

1. If you are gonna have a glass of wine or two, then you need some meds you can take beforehand if you forget to take them often after a drink.

2. Complera will be somewhat better than Atripla on the tripping according to the studies and post-marketing experience. Some people do find it still affects their mood though. It needs proper food to work but can be taken any time of day.

- matt (having a glass of wine with supper and meds) the newt

Thanks! Just advice I was seeking.

I don't drink often. But when I do, I may forget to take my pills because I'm in a hurry to make love to my bed. I would hate to make missing any dosages a habit, which is why I was seeking alternatives. My doctor said me drinking a glass of red wine every now and this is actually great--as it has a lot of health benefits, so she doesn't really want me to change what I'm doing, she just wants to make sure I'm on a medication that fits me and that will work to keep my virus UD.

[bocker3]

You seriously have a problem. I came here seeking advice, yet again, you come off as an asshole "judging". Not everyone's ride in the HIV park is the same, so I wish you would stop thinking it is. Tough skin is something I have, but I have a low tolerance to have someone talk down to me who doesn't even know who the hell I am. I asked a simple question about Complera, now maybe your comprehension skills are slightly off, and maybe that is something you should work on. Don't come trying to sit at a table when no seats have been giving.

You see how many fucks I give about your opinion now? NONE!

Seriously -- you need to calm down.  JK was giving you advice -- perhaps not the advice you wanted, but advice from many years living with this virus.  You are correct that we all have a different road with this virus, but there are some universal truths.  One of those is that we need to figure out how to ensure we take our meds every day.  Maybe your answer is to switch combos -- but you have to at least consider the possibility that something else is driving your missing doses.  What happens if the same things happens on a new regimen, only instead of the wine it's some other reason?  Not saying that will happen, but you unwillingness to even listen to JK should be a red flag. 
At the end of the day, you need to do what you feel is best for you -- but ignoring advice from someone who has survived decades with this virus -- hell, not ignoring but getting pissy about it -- well, you aren't being openminded at all.  You needn't take everyone's advice, but your reaction to it is a bit extreme.

So... good luck with whatever you decide -- but remember this -- your life now includes this virus and you have to figure out how you are going to live with it.  That might include making some adjustments from how you have been living.  Just food for thought.  Also -- if you thought JK was rude, well, you are going to have a tough time on this forum.

Mike

[newt]

Modern meds is not Crixivan 3 x a day or else, 95% adherence or perhaps 90% with some modern combos is sufficient to keep the virus at bay for nearly everyone on a first-line combo or a switch with no resistance.

- matt

[d-boy86]

Seriously -- you need to calm down.  JK was giving you advice -- perhaps not the advice you wanted, but advice from many years living with this virus.  You are correct that we all have a different road with this virus, but there are some universal truths.  One of those is that we need to figure out how to ensure we take our meds every day.  Maybe your answer is to switch combos -- but you have to at least consider the possibility that something else is driving your missing doses.  What happens if the same things happens on a new regimen, only instead of the wine it's some other reason?  Not saying that will happen, but you unwillingness to even listen to JK should be a red flag. 
At the end of the day, you need to do what you feel is best for you -- but ignoring advice from someone who has survived decades with this virus -- hell, not ignoring but getting pissy about it -- well, you aren't being openminded at all.  You needn't take everyone's advice, but your reaction to it is a bit extreme.

So... good luck with whatever you decide -- but remember this -- your life now includes this virus and you have to figure out how you are going to live with it.  That might include making some adjustments from how you have been living.  Just food for thought.  Also -- if you thought JK was rude, well, you are going to have a tough time on this forum.

Mike

And if  that's how you people act on this forum, then maybe this isn't the place for me. I have no problem packing my bags and leaving sir. There's a difference between providing advice to subject at hand, and being a complete judgmental ass. I'm young, not stupid. There's a certain way how you should talk to people if you want respect. I don't care about anyone's tenure here on this forum. I have better things to worry about than punching the keys at my keyboard because someone went through hell on their medical road. No one deserves that attitude from anyone.

It's pathetic. And I just received numerous of PM's from others agreeing how rude some of the people on here are. Aren't most of you in your 40s? I'm pretty sure the computer isn't the only thing holding your interest at bay in this point of your life.

[Jeff G]

d-boy ... think about it a second ... If you are dealing with something as serious as HIV you are probably going to want people to tell you the truth and be forthcoming with advice you may not want to hear . Its a forum , you don't get to cherry pick what people say to you .

Its not being judgmental either to suggest that if your drinking so much you might forget your meds you might want to slow the drinking down some . 

[bocker3]

And if  that's how you people act on this forum, then maybe this isn't the place for me. I have no problem packing my bags and leaving sir. There's a difference between providing advice to subject at hand, and being a complete judgmental ass. I'm young, not stupid. There's a certain way how you should talk to people if you want respect. I don't care about anyone's tenure here on this forum. I have better things to worry about than punching the keys at my keyboard because someone went through hell on their medical road. No one deserves that attitude from anyone.

It's pathetic. And I just received numerous of PM's from others agreeing how rude some of the people on here are. Aren't most of you in your 40s? I'm pretty sure the computer isn't the only thing holding your interest at bay in this point of your life.

Really??  this is how you think YOU should talk to people?  WTF man -- I thought I was being pretty nice in my response and you come back with this shit and a slap at "older" folks to boot?  No one, but YOU brought your age into this -- so if you have a chip on your shoulder, that's your baggage.
The only "pathetic" behavior I'm witnessing on here is yours.  This is the stuff I got from my teenaged daughter, not an adult.  Yes -- I'm closing in on 50, have at me.
There has not been any rudeness up until now from anyone but YOU.  Look, I get it -- dealing with being HIV+ is a big-fucking deal.  Lashing out at us isn't going to make it better.  Quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck if you drink once a week or once an hour -- that is your business and I ain't going to judge you on that.  All I was trying to make you see was that you were being WAY TOO sensitive to what JK posted.  You have to ask yourself why it struck you so hard.
So -- stay here, go away -- I won't lose any sleep over it -- unfortunately, there will be a string of new folks joining our family. 
I know you don't like unsolicited advice, but I'm going to give it anyway.  If you haven't gotten into some type of therapy / counseling to help you come to grips with your new reality, please try it.  It did wonders for me after my diagnosis. 
Hopefully, you can find the support that so many of us do on here -- but you have to be ready to hear things that you might not like, honestly, that is often where you can grab some of the best nuggets of wisdom to help.

Mike

[newt]

The guy just asked for a tip on how to handle an occasional night of wine. I personally do not think this is an invalid reason to change combo in this day and age. Meds is supposed to make for a normal (or semblance of normal) life. Which may include wine. Even too much some times. I suggest everyone, eminent on the forum and otherwise, step off the gas, it's only January.

- matt

[Jmarksto]

d-boy;

I am on complera and will post my pros and cons.

The pros for me have been little to no side effects for the most part that I can put my finger on.  I find taking it a lunch time pretty easy and have yet to miss a dose, but I am only six months in...

Like most things, there are two sides to the same coin -- there are times when I am not really hungry and would prefer to not eat lunch or have a very small snack, but I can't.  I have found that if I don't eat the full 400 calories (or more) I get more gastro issues (bloating, gas, uneasyness, ...), which has made me count calories on my phone some times to make sure I get over 400. I do have to make sure I have my meds with me at lunch - as I am generally out of the house or work - so I have to make sure to take them with me.  I have had to back track a block or two a few times.

I recognize that any of these issues are insignificant to how the meds used to be - I also recognize that we have the benefit of these insignificant issues because of the people that have suffered from this disease before us, participated in trials, and many lost their lives - and just want to acknowledged my gratitude to them.  That is how I feel.

So, I do wish you well,
JM

[thunter34]

The guy just asked for a tip on how to handle an occasional night of wine. I personally do not think this is an invalid reason to change combo in this day and age.

Nope...he asked about changing his regimen so that he didn't  have to handle his wine.  And wow...I have to agree with JK on this one:  I had no idea that we had gotten to the point where we could toss aside treatment regimens just so we wouldn't have to adjust our evening drinking habits.  I mean hey - glad to hear things are so rosy.  I guess AIDS really is over for some of us.

Except that it isn't.

Seriously...I'm stunned.  This isn't really just about a glass of wine.  It's about a mindset - one that you're going to have to obtain if you're gonna last the long haul with HIV. 

I am NOT judging the OP.  Ask 1/2 of midtown...nobody likes to give it up and party hard like thunter34 - with much more than a nip of wine, but for real real:

You gotta learn to bend with the HIV.  It will not bend for you.

[Robert]

Not judging you. But it would be dismissive and condescending not to point out the elephant in your posts.

Living with HIV is still not a walk in the proverbial park. I suggest you grow a thicker skin as soon as you are able. If you think I'm an asshole then I submit your tenure on this forum will not be the coddling experience you appear to expect. I'm actually one of the nice guys. And with twenty years' experience there might actually be some stuff worth listening to - even, perhaps especially if it makes you defensive and uncomfortable.

It's snarky comments like this that caused me to leave the forums. It's judgemental and mean. And it's why so few new posters bother to stay around. One thing is for sure. Aidsmeds is just a shadow of its former self and it's going nowhere fast.

[thunter34]

It's snarky comments like this that caused me to leave the forums. It's judgemental and mean. And it's why so few new posters bother to stay around. One thing is for sure. Aidsmeds is just a shadow of its former self and it's going nowhere fast.

Robert, I don't see what is snarky in what you quoted. 

[Robert]

Modern meds is not Crixivan 3 x a day or else, 95% adherence or perhaps 90% with some modern combos is sufficient to keep the virus at bay for nearly everyone on a first-line combo or a switch with no resistance.

- matt

To be constructive and practical.

1. If you are gonna have a glass of wine or two, then you need some meds you can take beforehand if you forget to take them often after a drink.

2. Complera will be somewhat better than Atripla on the tripping according to the studies and post-marketing experience. Some people do find it still affects their mood though. It needs proper food to work but can be taken any time of day.

- matt (having a glass of wine with supper and meds) the newt

The guy just asked for a tip on how to handle an occasional night of wine. I personally do not think this is an invalid reason to change combo in this day and age. Meds is supposed to make for a normal (or semblance of normal) life. Which may include wine. Even too much some times. I suggest everyone, eminent on the forum and otherwise, step off the gas, it's only January.

- matt

And it's comments like these that keep Aidsmeds relevant and worthwhile.

[thunter34]

You seriously have a problem. I came here seeking advice, yet again, you come off as an asshole "judging". Not everyone's ride in the HIV park is the same, so I wish you would stop thinking it is. Tough skin is something I have, but I have a low tolerance to have someone talk down to me who doesn't even know who the hell I am. I asked a simple question about Complera, now maybe your comprehension skills are slightly off, and maybe that is something you should work on. Don't come trying to sit at a table when no seats have been giving.

You see how many fucks I give about your opinion now? NONE!

Now THIS is snarky.

[mitch777]

Rather than a back and forth blame game thing going on (as happens frequently here), it might be a good idea to recognize the fact that this forum is comprised of a variety of personalities.
Often, the personalities can clash due to more reasons than I would even care to elaborate on.

d-boy,
the bottom line is that THIS forum is second to none!
it would be such a shame if you choose to dismiss all of us due to issues unrelated to why we are all here. HIV. Help. Support.

It (help+support) might not always come to you in the way you expect.
(it took me awhile to adjust.)

Some personalities are stronger and at times might even "seem" harsh and judgemental, but it is also true that sometimes we (me included) can be a bit sensitive on any given day.

Since you are newly diagnosed, and relatively new here, the emotional issues that you are facing are understandable.

I wish you the best (even after hearing your "age" commentary.  and hope you give us a better chance to know you as well as for you to get to better know us.

It is hard at times to not take a post personally, but again, it sometimes helps to remember why we are all here and accept the diversity.


Hope to hear more from you for a LONG time to come!

[jkinatl2]

It's snarky comments like this that caused me to leave the forums. It's judgemental and mean. And it's why so few new posters bother to stay around. One thing is for sure. Aidsmeds is just a shadow of its former self and it's going nowhere fast.

Robert. there was mot a hint of snark in that comment. I am genuinely offended that you would single me out for criticism - as you have done with my posts for some time now. I stand by every syllable I have written on this subject, and find your "exits" from the forum laughable when you cheerfully return to attempt to discredit my statements time and again.

I think that the OP's original statement was telling, and that adjusting one's life in some small way to dealing with the profound diagnosis of HIV is imperative. I think - without any trace of snark - that if the OP wanted to know nothing beyond the scientific mechanisms of Complera V Atripla, then he could easily have perused the LESSONS section of this forum.

I submit that if the lifestyle changes necessary to take ONE pill per day cannot be achieved, then it ultimately will not matter WHICH pill that is. If the OP had even hinted at, say the common-enough CNS side effects of one of the components of Atripla, my answer would have been quite different.

It is persistent personal attacks from people like yourself, Robert, that undermine the forum. Period. Especially since you weren't actually falling all over yourself in order to provide constructive advice or - gasp - criticism - to the original poster.

I will never know, nor do I particularly care, what set you off some months/years ago regarding me and my posting here. But if I have driven you away, you certainly are not driving fast nor far - since you seem thrilled to jump back in here and initiate a flame war when you feel I am online and participating - something I do not do nearly as often as I used to because of people like yourself, whose thinly veiled personal vendettas seem to take priority over participating in a constructive way.

These forums are not just about throwing scientific information back and forth. They are about the process of coping with and treating this extremely serious illness. Part of that coping prices insists on giving it the respect it deserves.

NOT mentioning the seemingly whimsical reason to switch drugs would, in my opinion, have been doing the OP a disservice. And though I respect our esteemed Newt's grasp on the science of HIV and it's myriad treatment options, it is a matter of record that he and I do not see eye to eye regarding the sped at which HIV is evolving into irrelevancy.

Sometimes offering support in a support forum is pointing out when a person is heading down what appears to be a slippery slope towards drug resistance and treatment failure. That's not being judgmental, it is using my experience to point out the correlation between an unwillingness/inability to assimilate an HIV diagnosis into one's paradigm and dying of AIDS.

Pointed out because I have witnessed it, and not just in the 90s but last year, this year, and even on these forums.

I submit that you are looking for snark in my posts where there is none to be found. I could not be more serious in my interpretation of and comments towards the Original Poster. I firmly believe that they are valid, and I stand behind them.

[mitch777]

d-boy,
sorry to have ignored your original question, but i am not of much help here other than to suggest you read about the side effects on these options described under "treatments" on the main page as well as reading related posts.

hopefully others will be able to add other comments to you on this thread as well.
 

[synergyhomepage]

d-boy,  I am not one either atripla or complera,  but 3 months ago my doc changed my meds from Isentress (which I took without food before bedtime), to Prezista/Norvir (needs to be taken with food).  Taking my evening meds with a meal has been much easier and where I used to miss (forget and take in the morning) 1-2 times a month, I haven't missed any due to forget fullness. I keep a full days pills on my key chain, that way if im not at home no big deal.  Since I don't normally drink before dinner, I can still knock a few down and don't have to worry about missing any thing.

Hope this is helpfull, I haven't been here that long, it can be a bit of a rodeo, lots of big hats and boots sometimes.  Don't let it get personal. 

Do your best,  Live a life that you enjoy, and don't let others bring you down to much.

[YellowFever]

Reading this entire thread makes me reminisce the times when I was a kid and I complained about the food that my mom made and my grandma would scold me saying that I should be grateful I didn't have to dig for wild potatoes to eat during WW2! (I sense Godwin's law coming true...) We are not living in WW2 anymore and I hope we aren't still living in the early 1990s with AZT mono-therapy.

I mean, isn't it a good thing that there are people like OP who are willing to switch meds (and maybe cause Bristol Meyers Squib to lose a few bucks) at the drop of a hat?

[texaninnyc87]

I can only reiterate the fact that many who post in these forums are VERY judgmental and do more harm than good to newly diagnosed people who come here seeking help. It seems obvious that if, many people, feel that the tone of some posters is predominantly negative that there is something wrong with the way these forums are moderated. at first i thought it was something that i was perceiving, perhaps incorrectly. after reading and PMing others who have come to these forums seeking help and support and only receiving negativity and backlash i can only stand by my original thoughts that many people here have forgot what the original intent of these boards is; they are meant to provide support and guidance for people who are scared and uneducated about the hardships they face. if you disagree, then by all means continue to post condescending and judgmental replies to newly diagnosed people who are looking for help.

[jkinatl2]

I mean, isn't it a good thing that there are people like OP who are willing to switch meds (and maybe cause Bristol Meyers Squib to lose a few bucks) at the drop of a hat?

Of course it is. But if he has a substance abuse problem that causes him to miss doses, then should that be addressed in addition to switching one medication, which seems to be causing no ill effect, for another?

[Jeff G]

I agree with JK , telling someone a feel good reply is enabling behavior and isn't really true support .

[lincoln6echo]

Couldn't agree more Tex..lots of judgment and snarkiness on here and some people need to seriously take a step back and think before they post. 

People and personalities differ, but that doesn't give people an excuse to be unkind and bitchy.

People come here for support, not to be judged by people who make assumptions (which there has been lots of that going on in this thread about the OP).

Fortunately there's lots of great information and mostly supportive people on here...better to just ignore/forget the rest. 

D-boy..just shake it off and stick to those who are here to be supportive

[YellowFever]

Of course it is. But if he has a substance abuse problem that causes him to miss doses, then should that be addressed in addition to switching one medication, which seems to be causing no ill effect, for another?

Ok so lets put aside the question of whether having a couple glasses of wine on some nights is a substance abuse problem.

But if you agree that the option to switch meds due to ill effect is a good thing, wouldn't you also agree that the option to switch meds to avoid lifestyle change is also a good one? I for one would like to continue my grapefruit juice "drinking habit"

[folkyboy]

Maybe one of the side-effects of their regiments is bitchiness? I'm on Complera & I haven't seen any yet.

But I'm already a bitch anyway. So....

[Jeff G]

Maybe one of the side-effects of their regiments is bitchiness? I'm on Complera & I haven't seen any yet.

But I'm already a bitch anyway. So....

Its regimens bitch  . Welcome to the forums , if your a bitch with thick skin you will fit in fine here .
And I'm just joking with you , call your meds by any name you want as long you take them and are well .

[d-boy86]

Of course it is. But if he has a substance abuse problem that causes him to miss doses, then should that be addressed in addition to switching one medication, which seems to be causing no ill effect, for another?

A substance abuse problem? When did drinking one or two glasses of wine a week be considered a substance abuse problem?

[jkinatl2]

A substance abuse problem? When did drinking one or two glasses of wine a week be considered a substance abuse problem?

Because I have a hard time wrapping my head around missing doses of a lifesaving medication after two glasses of wine.

How will Complera be different? If you have no issues with side effects on Atripla, can't you just take it in the morning instead of at night?

[d-boy86]

Because I have a hard time wrapping my head around missing doses of a lifesaving medication after two glasses of wine.

How will Complera be different? If you have no issues with side effects on Atripla, can't you just take it in the morning instead of at night?

Out of the entire three years I've been on Atripla I've only missed four doses. However, I brought this concern to my doctor. Atripla causes me to get extremely high if I take it in the morning, which is why she recommends that I make the switch to Complera. That way I have the ability to take it any time during the day, with little no side effects at all. All of this was discussed in my two initial post.

Like I said, not everyone's trip down this HIV road is the same. And if you have a hard time trying to "believe" my story, then that's your problem. I am not here to be interrogated. I am seeking advice from those who are on Complera, or who may know someone that is.

Thanks to those who informed me of their experiences with Complera. My ID Doctor has sent my prescription over to my local pharmacy for pick up today.

[jkinatl2]

Out of the entire three years I've been on Atripla I've only missed four doses. However, I brought this concern to my doctor. Atripla causes me to get extremely high if I take it in the morning, which is why she recommends that I make the switch to Complera. That way I have the ability to take it any time during the day, with little no side effects at all. All of this was discussed in my two initial post.

Like I said, not everyone's trip down this HIV road is the same. I know some people who have no side effects from Atripla, however, after I take mine, it feels as if I may have smoked an entire bucket of pot. It doesn't take much for me to feel intoxicated. Hence as to why I limit my self to only two glasses of wine. Even one gets me there.

Thanks to those who informed me of their experiences with Complera. My ID Doctor has sent my prescription over to my local pharmacy for pick up today.

I stand behind my statement re: not wrapping my head around why one or two glasses of wine equals a missed dose, of course. I've certainly missed doses when I've been partying, but I managed more or less to get that straightened out and now rarely miss a dose. Required both medication and lifestyle change, but part of that was simply the process of growing up.

What you described is, actually, a side effect issue (the stoned feeling in the morning) that, with many people, dissipates over time. From what you described, missing four doses over the course of a year is actually not in the least an issue - and it is not at all how you painted the picture in your first couple of posts here.

I am sorry if I came across too harsh before, but you have to understand how you came across as well. This is not "Just Infected," where I and others try to use "kid gloves" to talk to people who are in a vulnerable and transitory state regarding their infection. Here in "Living With," our opinions tend to be far less varnished. It's probably the only place on the forums where long term people still feel comfortable mingling outside of our pen.

Having seen dozens of people flame out on these forums because they couldn't be bothered to take their drugs because of excessive partying, or who absolutely refused to consider the slightest adjustment to a self-destructive lifestyle in the pursuit of long-term health, I tend to be pretty harsh in my responses when there is a threat of an ongoing sabotage. I don't apologize for that. I would rather be vilified by some people than be complacent in order to avoid ruffling feathers. Especially if there seems to be a genuine and serious issue that is not being addressed.

Had you simply phrased it like "I have a hard time, with my schedule, maintaining the perfect adherence I desire with night-time Atripla dosing, and have ongoing CNS issues with taking it in the morning" your reply from me would have been drastically different. I am not a fan of Atripla specifically because of the CNS issues, which I submit impact far more people than we are aware.

But missing four doses in a year is hardly non-compliance. It's a great track record, and certainly better than my own. Your switch to Complera should offer no issues after perhaps an initial adjustment period, but even that can be mitigated by diet or supplements in most cases.

It is frustrating to be painted as some sort of monster when I really was, and am, trying to be of some help. I hope your new drug works as well for you as the old one - better, now that dosing, side effects, and adherence will no longer be relevant issues.

[Fisher]

No Gentlepeoples, we're all heading down the same river together, in the same raft.  And though at times the urge to take a paddle to whack may rise, paddling together to prevent going over the waterfall makes a lot more sense to me. Perhaps an occasional split, just pulled out after minor bleeding.

Using Atripla with limited side effects except for falling asleep, now controlled with Lunesta. Other than that I thinks its a good choice. It sounds like many good choices are available.

[Miss Philicia]

It's snarky comments like this that caused me to leave the forums. It's judgemental and mean. And it's why so few new posters bother to stay around. One thing is for sure. Aidsmeds is just a shadow of its former self and it's going nowhere fast.

Nice -- so you get you annual dig in contrary to what you claim others are doing. Silence is golden, but liquor is quicker.

On another note I actually agree with what Newt stated about changing medication -- do no harm and all that.

There's snark and then there's anti-snark dressed as slosh snark.

[Since2005]

OMG.... This Forum has not changed much since I have visited last time around.
LTS vs. newcomers. What the hell!

NEWT you are still as sweet as pie like you used to be when I showed up the first time couple years back.

Don't worry D-boy. Sometimes, some LTS think 'we the new comers are getting it easy'. Yes, we are but that doesn't mean anything. What it means is that just some people here think they can talk with anyone anyway they want to because they are ‘the survivors’. Yes I personally respect that. Granted some people went through hell in the past and who survived the scene, salute to them. Some LTS members, please tone it down a bit.

Everyone’s journey with the HIV virus is different. The guy had a question on Atripla vs. complera, lets focus on that. Geesh!!


Edited to add: Have/want to add this - 'just hang around long enough and you will find everyone here is actually pretty good. People just say things differently is all'. We all are at a different stop points on the road but our journey here is the same'.

[texaninnyc87]

So true. Experienced this, yet again, today. Ugh!

[Dr.Strangelove]

Yes, very true.

And threads like this one are one of the reason I rarely post here in the 'Living' forums...

[jkinatl2]

Yes, very true.

And threads like this one are one of the reason I rarely post here in the 'Living' forums...

It's a real shame that the people who complain most about the lack of forum unity are notably absent whenever a discussion on that topic is introduced. It's as if they WANT to feel unhappy, and vilify others instead of contributing in a helpful way to the forums.

[BT65]

It's a real shame that the people who complain most about the lack of forum unity are notably absent whenever a discussion on that topic is introduced. It's as if they WANT to feel unhappy, and vilify others instead of contributing in a helpful way to the forums.

Valid point, Jk.

[RobbyR]

Being an Atripla veteran, and having tried Complera for a time due to some sleep problems, I found that for me the Complera actually caused whole other problems that caused me MAJOR mood changes and depressive thoughts. And it killed my appetite. I was surprised at this, because most think Complera is more benign than Atripla. But as far as my sleep problems, they actually did not improve at all while I was on Complera, I had terrible insomnia on it. So I said fuck it, and went back to Atripla, which is the devil I already knew so to speak. I now am on the brink of totally change regimens, maybe trying a PI, or another combo, just to try and alleviate my sleep problems. But everyone is different, for some, ditching the sustiva in Atripla for Complera might be a good option.

[Ann]

Ack. I just realised this thread is in the Living forum, instead of the Treatment forum where it belongs. Moved, with apologies for how long it took me to notice.

[Homopoz]

Can the administrator remove the whole thread of the bitter exchanges? I thought, we are here to support each other. I was hoping to find some info on the message as I am to see my doctor next monday to discuss my treatment but found the quarrel of bitter people.

[Jeff G]

Can the administrator remove the whole thread of the bitter exchanges? I thought, we are here to support each other. I was hoping to find some info on the message as I am to see my doctor next monday to discuss my treatment but found the quarrel of bitter people.

There is lots of good information in this thread that many people might find helpful and it would be a real shame to remove it because of some minor differences of opinion .

Its rare a thread is ever removed anyway , especially one you didn't start or participate in . Am I missing something here ?  . 

[beentheredoneit]

Atripla and Complera are the same thing, the only thing I noticed different was some days Complera caused dizziness on top of all the same side effects (dreams, anxiety, feeling down).  I'd say Complera is marginally better when it comes to sleep regimen.  However, they are not much different.

[RobbyR]

When I tried Complera briefly, I felt like I was having withdrawals form my Atripla, and it made me feel worse, instead of better. I got really tired after the first few days, with terrible nausea and fatigue, and even some depression. One wouldn't think such a regimen so similar as atripla would cause this, but I guess everyone is different. I quit Complera because it gave me awful insomnia. I'm back on atripla now, for the time being. Feel pretty decent.

[newone]

I am planning to switch my Atripla regimen to Complera in about 5 weeks time, can you take Complera at different times with meals or is it recommended to take it at the same time everyday?
The only thing I like about Atripla is the possibility of taking the daily dosage at slightly different times and of course the good numbers that I am enjoying at the present time but for sure I wont miss the daily regular 2 hours of dizziness, depression etc etc..

[Matts]

The FDA has released new  Warnings and Precautions for hepatotoxicity for Eviplera (Complera).
Every HIV Doc got the info, so there will be no problem:)

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ByAudience/ForPatientAdvocates/HIVandAIDSActivities/ucm337007.htm

[texaninnyc87]

My boyfriend takes complera and says he has about a three hour window where he can take it. i think this is the norm with most meds. hope this helps!

[Horizon]

Not judging you. But it would be dismissive and condescending not to point out the elephant in your posts.

Living with HIV is still not a walk in the proverbial park. I suggest you grow a thicker skin as soon as you are able. If you think I'm an asshole then I submit your tenure on this forum will not be the coddling experience you appear to expect. I'm actually one of the nice guys. And with twenty years' experience there might actually be some stuff worth listening to - even, perhaps especially if it makes you defensive and uncomfortable.

I hardly every comment on this site, also because of posts like these. You will be surprised at how many people have stopped interacting on this site because of people like you, and oldies, ganging up on younger people that come here for advise. I think its pathetic that you guys behave this way, and it makes me wonder what pathetic lives your guys live that you get a kick off spending your time on here bashing and judging people that come for advice!

The days of taking 50 pills a day a long gone!!! Taking medication is not as scary as it was back in the days you started taking them. Its a completely different time now and if people want to live a normal life and have wine, then who the hell do you guys think you are to judge people!!

GET A LIFE!!!

[Jeff G]

I hardly every comment on this site, also because of posts like these. You will be surprised at how many people have stopped interacting on this site because of people like you, and oldies, ganging up on younger people that come here for advise. I think its pathetic that you guys behave this way, and it makes me wonder what pathetic lives your guys live that you get a kick off spending your time on here bashing and judging people that come for advice!

The days of taking 50 pills a day a long gone!!! Taking medication is not as scary as it was back in the days you started taking them. Its a completely different time now and if people want to live a normal life and have wine, then who the hell do you guys think you are to judge people!!

GET A LIFE!!!

This is the second time you have taken it upon yourself to come into a thread you didn't even start or contribute too except to offer a snarky comment or contempt for the board .

Do not post in this thread again , and yes this is a warning .   

[oksikoko]

The days of taking 50 pills a day a long gone!!! Taking medication is not as scary as it was back in the days you started taking them. Its a completely different time now (…)

Not stirring the pot, I swear!

I just wanted to acknowledge this statement. I'm newly (ish) positive. I find the 'harsher' attitudes of some of the 'older' (in HIV terms, not years) people in these forums kind of refreshing, to be honest. Even though I suspect a couple of them don't care for me very much (oops), I love coming here and reading through their advice to people even on threads that I'm not involved in.

I agree 100% that things aren't like they used to be. On another online forum, I was just the other day trying to help (I hope) a newly positive guy understand that even though his CD4 count is below 200, he wasn't about to keel over tomorrow and that I knew of plenty of people who were healthy for years at that level and below. (This guy is on meds and his doctor was involved and not worried about his levels.) My big point was that things are different than they used to be and that we all have a lot of baggage about HIV/AIDS from having lived through the 80s (some of us here) and 90s (most of us here). If you reached that level a long time ago without today's medicines, there were different implications than there are now.

BUT (coming up to my point, sorry long-winded), just because things are different, that doesn't mean we can just ignore the fact that we're HIV positive which has implications on our lives and the lives of people around us. Now, in my case, I practically chose for this to happen, so I can't really in good conscience continue to complain about any difficulties I might have, but I'm kind of surprised at the number people who've told me how easy it is now and how I shouldn't be having any side effects, etc. I push the idea that it's not really a big deal, but I mean that in the sense that it's no bigger a deal than most diseases which require massive amounts of powerful drugs for the rest of your life and are potentially fatal and contagious. I do have an internal consistency. It just lives in the ambiguity of the particular situation. That is: what I say to one person to convince him not to jump off a ledge is not what I might say to another person who's about to push someone off a ledge.

I appreciate the 'old-timers' (lolz) here who smack people upside the head with reality every now and then. I'm incredibly thankful that we have the drugs we have now, and appreciative of the people who suffered so that we could have them, but I think it's a little foolish to act like there are no side effects with modern HAART and like we can do whatever we please now that AIDS is over. I was talking to a guy online recently who wanted to switch to Stribild from Atripla who was completely surprised to learn that he was taking three drugs and that Stribild would be 4. His doctor didn't think it was important to stress this and he learned it from some anonymous dude in a (I'll admit) rather murky neighborhood on the Internet? We don't need to scare people, but it's "a big fucking deal" (insert smiley of your choice). The one-a-day pills are giving a lot of people what I consider a false impression of what it's like to be HIV+. A culture of simplistic laissez-faire has grown up around HIV/AIDS, and I've participated in it myself. We don't have to think about HIV constantly, but it's kind of irresponsible for us to foster or endorse this idea that "AIDS is over".

I really hope I get my shit together soon, because I'd like to be out there doing something on this issue instead of designing the invitations for my pity parties all day.

[GChastain]

I was diagnosed + in November 2012 and started meds last December. First Viramune + Epzicom but I developed severe rash and I switched to Atripla. The First two months I had trouble to sleep and I felt quiet dizzy in the mornings. I also lost weight... but after three months everything is much better, I dont have trouble to sleep anymore, I dont feel dizziness, Im gaining weight again and I never had the vivid dreams.
So overall I feel great. I also believe that keeping a positive attitude is a key point to overcome the side effects and also give time to your body to adjust.
When you search on the internet you find more negative experiences than positive ones... Is important to post the positive experiences, not only the bad ones so I encourage people to please do so. Is tiring to see that is always the same people the ones that are posting comments on every single thread here, and some of them seem quiet bitter to me...

[oksikoko]

I get tired of people saying things "some of you seem bitter". I'm sure I've done it too, but it's really irritating.

If you think someone is bitter, say it to them, or don't say anything. You're just casting aspersions at no one in particular which makes several people feel bad instead of addressing whatever it is you see as the problem and possibly making the forum better/more useful.

People come here and ask for advice on treatments. Maybe only the people with bad experiences are answering, but i's better than the post just sitting here getting no response. Peopl who answer also have no way of knowing if their response is normal. Yes, I comment on every Stribild post. If I say something wildly inaccurate, I'd love to know it so I won't go around thinking some side effect is normal. You may have a wonderful doctor. Great. Some of us are on our own and need other people here to answer.

If you're upset by other people's answers, I suggest you answer more -  ot ask others to answer less. If it's me you're addressing, please call me by name. I'm not bitter, and I'd like the chance to defend myself when called names. If it's not me, please call whoever it is you're talking to by name and they can ignore you or address you back.

Like a human being instead of an Internet troll.

[newone]

First day on Complera, so far an improvement on Atripla, no foggy 2 hours which in itself it is a huge improvement and no other adverse symptoms (yet)..
Time will tell.

[Kevin_Toronto]

I am a new user on here and have a similar question about what to expect with the change from atripla to complera. I have had two years of debilitating side effects and my doctor recommended switching to complera.

On a side note, I am a bit disappointed at the responses in this forum. Not to discount the experiences of those of you who paved the way for us "newly infected" individuals, I'm shocked at how off topic people got this thread. The question was rarely addressed. In terms of nights of drinking that end up with occasional missed doses, rather than attack lifestyles, why not work towards finding a solution around the drinking? Perhaps taking your pill before you start drinking? Or maybe keeping your bottle next to your bed?

[newone]

Day 5 from switching from Atripla to Complera, so far it is the best thing i have done since starting meds, I hope my cd numbers  (in 10 days time) will match my optimism for my new regime.

[frenchie]

here is my small experience with atripla and complera (called eviplera here in Europe):


when i started medication my viral load was about 200 000, and atripla was the only single tablet regimen available in my country.

As i had at the beginning a lot of side effects (i was very depressed: just been diagnosed, and my girlfriend who i was supposed to marry, dump me in a very very rude way), i wanted to switch to complera, i took another health insurance in a different country where complera was available and then switch to this one (my viral load at this time was not detectable thanks to atripla).

And the side effects was even worse (i still had insomnia and a lot of stomach problems), i kept complera for a month or two but the side effects didn t go away.

So i went back to atripla and nowadays the only problem i have is sometimes a sleeping disorder, but nothing to bad, so i keep this medication.

As we all have different reaction with medication, I will recommend people who hesitate to try both of them if they can, and see which one suit them the best, my doctor told me there were not risk to switch from one regimen to another if you were not detectable.

About forgetting to take a pill, i have read than atripla stay longer in your body than complera, so maybe it is better to keep this one, specially if you don t have a lot of side effects. And you can still put your pill box next to your pillow, so you won't forget to take them.
 And if you wake up in the middle of the night stressing if you have taken your pill or not, you can check your pill box next to your bed.

[newone]

Latest results since starting Complera C4-875 u\d
..goodbye Atripla!!

[newone]

Now a month on Complera the only thing that I have noticed so far it is the feeling of tiredness, lethargy some two hours after taking the pill, I hope (as advised by my Dr) the tiredness will go some months later. 

[Hellraiser]

I swapped from Atripla to Complera a year ago.  Here's my take:

On Atripla I was exhausted pretty much all the time and I always felt mentally rattled.  I was anxious and kind of touchy.  Most of all however I would sleep and wake up feeling as if I hadn't slept at all.  For all of these reason I swapped to Complera.  On Complera my side effects are non existent.  I have trouble eating 400 calories each time I take it (right before bed) but otherwise it's fine.  One thing to note about Complera is that it's threshold for resistance is MUCH lower than Atripla's.  So if someone is saying they are missing doses of Atripla going onto Complera is a terrible idea.

Oh and my completely undetectable viral load has risen to 82-84 in my last two draws which is still "undetecable" but I suppose not as brutally effective as the atripla was in which I never went over UD even once.  However my CD4 is now 275 which is also a marked improvement.

[buginme2]

I swapped from Atripla to Complera a year ago.  Here's my take:

On Atripla I was exhausted pretty much all the time and I always felt mentally rattled.  I was anxious and kind of touchy.  Most of all however I would sleep and wake up feeling as if I hadn't slept at all.  For all of these reason I swapped to Complera.  On Complera my side effects are non existent.  I have trouble eating 400 calories each time I take it (right before bed) but otherwise it's fine.  One thing to note about Complera is that it's threshold for resistance is MUCH lower than Atripla's.  So if someone is saying they are missing doses of Atripla going onto Complera is a terrible idea.

Oh and my completely undetectable viral load has risen to 82-84 in my last two draws which is still "undetecable" but I suppose not as brutally effective as the atripla was in which I never went over UD even once.  However my CD4 is now 275 which is also a marked improvement.

I also got switched off Atripla and started Complera a while ago.  Pretty much the same for me as far as side effects.  Atripla felt like it was a sledge hammer pounding away at the HIV.  Complera is like a paper weight holding it down.  No side effects but I am concerned about its "strength."

The low level viral load you are experiencing, has your doctor mentioned how he feels about this?  I know under 200 used to be considered ud but it still concerns me.  I think that would spark a long conversation with the doctor.  What did he say about that?

I still haven't gotten a viral load done since starting Complera.  My doctor only does them every six months unless there is some need to do them earlier.  I'm curious to see how it is. 

[Hellraiser]

I also got switched off Atripla and started Complera a while ago.  Pretty much the same for me as far as side effects.  Atripla felt like it was a sledge hammer pounding away at the HIV.  Complera is like a paper weight holding it down.  No side effects but I am concerned about its "strength."

The low level viral load you are experiencing, has your doctor mentioned how he feels about this?  I know under 200 used to be considered ud but it still concerns me.  I think that would spark a long conversation with the doctor.  What did he say about that?

I still haven't gotten a viral load done since starting Complera.  My doctor only does them every six months unless there is some need to do them earlier.  I'm curious to see how it is.

I was UD for the first draw after starting then 84 and this last time 82.  Doctor is unconcerned and I think in that time CD4 went from 150 to 275 so very happy with that.

[newone]

Still happy with Complera, no dizziness, no wind...feeling less tired/lethargic, eating 400 calories is not a problem eating only 400 calories is a problem I usually (to make sure) I probably consume 1000 calories, weird/funny dreams still there but in general it is a huge improvement.