POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: LordBerners on November 29, 2009, 09:32:45 am
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I've quite the case of diahrrea today after eating steak tar-tar at dinner last night. I doubt its to blame though because it started in the afternoon and I ate the food the evening before.
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I have no idea why this thread exists, nor do I understand why someone who is HIV+ would tempt fate and eat raw hamburger.
I just would like to caution anyone tempted to eat raw meat, that they follow some very simple but important guidelines. First, the cow should have been one you knew and also knew the vet reports on. Secondly, the amount of fat involved should be almost none, as many of the things ingested by cattle in the feeding process; stay in the fat. Thirdly, if these suggestions seem a bit restrictive to you; simply don't do it. The food chain we all know and love, both in the U.S. and Europe, are still not safe enough for someone who is HIV+ to take the risk of eating beef raw. If you don't believe me, take a tour of a slaughterhouse.
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I would not eat steak tartare even if I were HIV-Negative, just my .2¢
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I would not eat steak tartar even if I were HIV-Negative, just my .2¢
Agreed
I watched a show one time about a little boy who ate a piece of raw meat that fell from the grill. He was left brain damaged because he was not properly treated after becoming sick. I think it was E. coli if memory serves me right...
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LB, food poisoning does not necessarily show itself immediately after having eaten contaminated food, so your reasoning that the raw meat you ate wasn't the cause doesn't work.
Where E. coli is concerned, the incubation period is usually 3-4 days, although rarely the incubation can be as short as 12 hours or as long as 8 days. source (http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/CWP/view.asp?A=171&Q=230380)
If your diarrhea doesn't pass quickly (no pun intended), you'd be wise to see your doctor.
Personally I'd never eat raw meat. Well, not that kind of raw meat anyway! ;D
Ann
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Personally I'd never eat raw meat. Well, not that kind of raw meat anyway! ;D
But you were just mentioning in another thread how you can't use a tongue scraper because you have a gag reflex? ;)
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But you were just mentioning in another thread how you can't use a tongue scraper because you have a gag reflex? ;)
Yeah, I know, strange, isn't it. Tongue scrapers are about the only thing that gets my gag reflex going. :D
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Nobody HIV+ or HIV- is supposed to eat raw meat. Sushi if its worth the price has been flash to subzero temperatures which supposedly kills problem bacteria.
Now, I have never seen a certified nutritionist nor have I heard of an HIV doc telling their patients not to eat cooked meat.
To each his own but guidelines such as "know your cow" are ridiculous applied to the general population.
Buy bio meat if you can afford it, quality meat if you can't, cook it fresh, cook it appropriately, and ENJOY. Geez! Enjoy life, and quality meet is nutritious besides delicious!
By the way, there are all kinds of cured and dried meats - beef and port -- around Europe and I eat them, they are a must for aperitif at many dinners or cocktails, and they are delicious. I have yet to have a problem, knock on wood. I guess it just takes one.
If your digestive tract didn't take a huge hit from long-term HIV infection, i don't see why people feel like they have to make blanket generalisations. Its all so damn sloppy. I bet there are quite a few LTS who have reconstituted a good digestive flora and enjoy their meat as well.
For my part, I have perfect BMs and intend to eat delicious foods from all the groups for the rest of my days. , washed down with wine and water and toasted with cocktails if the occassion calls. And then a cigar.
Live it up my friends.... Thats my blanket generalisation. Don't be an alcoholic and don't be a regular smoker..
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I personally don't care for steak tartare because the texture is like cold turd, but if my cd4 count was within normal range I'd not take much more precaution than a non-infected person would (meaning however that I'd only eat such a dish at a restaurant with a sterling reputation for cleanliness). Of course, the greater the frequency you eat such things the greater the chance for trouble... kind of like taking raw cocks up the ass I suppose. If my lab numbers were still tenuous and/or had not been stable for at least a couple of years I would be more prudent, and personally I was back years ago.
As far as food poisoning goes in general you can get it when you least expected. I've only had it bad once in my life and that was from an up-scale salad place.
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Ann, why do you deep throat tongue scrapers?
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Interesting responses, and thank you. I eat steak tar tar at least once every few months and normally have no problems. Its quite often delicious, in my opinion, and I'm not too worried about it. My CD4's in the 600s range.
Anyway as far as I can tell the diarrhea seems to have subsided now.
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I think I am going to try and stretch the Thanksgiving turkey leftovers past the two week mark. I know they advise against it, but what the hell.... I'm different than everyone else.
Glad to hear everything is flowing back to normal.
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See, for some reason I'm MUCH more cautious about leftovers than I am raw foods (that are fresh and eaten sporadically at most). I'd never eat something that was in my fridge for two weeks.
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Interesting responses, and thank you. I eat steak tar tar at least once every few months and normally have no problems. Its quite often delicious, in my opinion, and I'm not too worried about it. My CD4's in the 600s range.
Anyway as far as I can tell the diarrhea seems to have subsided now.
Hey LB,
Was it chevre'? (My French spelling sucks, so forgive me.)
That was the only steak tartar I have eaten, and that was in Paris about 30 years ago, before I was a pozzie.
Now that I have the bug, I eschew uncooked foods for the most part. Sometimes I will splurge on sushi or sashimi, but most of that is behind me now.
As Ann pointed out, "food poisoning," whether it be bacterial, amoebic, or parasitic in nature, can take a while to show up and can last even longer.
Just be careful.
HUGS,
Mark
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I've had steak tartare three times in the past month, but I agree with Moffie here--know the cow. When I make it at home, I get the beef from a farmer I know and trust. I eat it in a restaurant because I know that no restaurant in New York would dare serve something that could get them sued. I also agree with Miss P here--a poz person whose CD4s are high shouldn't, as far as I can tell, need to take more precautions than a neg person would. Or am I wrong about that?
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Hey LB,
Was it chevre'? (My French spelling sucks, so forgive me.)
Uh, chèvre is goats' milk cheese. Your looking for tartare de cheval here.
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So if I want to try this steak tar tar can I just cut expenses and use a package of ground beef or should I air on the side of caution and pony up for premium ground chuck? Can I just like put some in a bowl and eat it with a little lemon on the side? Would the lemon make it safer? What about chicken breast tar tar, is there such a thing?
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So if I want to try this steak tar tar can I just cut expenses and use a package of ground beef or should I air on the side of caution and pony up for premium ground chuck? Can I just like put some in a bowl and eat it with a little lemon on the side? Would the lemon make it safer? What about chicken breast tar tar, is there such a thing?
Don't they have google in the trailer parks in south Florida?
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Hi,
I've never heard of eating raw chicken except in a Lao Laab. I use ground beef from a grass-fed cow; I don't even know what cut it is. The farmer himself eats it raw and I trust him. I mix it with a lot of mustard, raw minced garlic, parsley, an egg yolk or two, capers, cayenne pepper, and lemon juice (which I think does do something--I know that's why we can have ceviche without worrying.) If people are really worried about bacteria, simply keeping the beef in the freezer for two weeks will kill any bad bacteria that might be there, although I myself do not do this.
I've had raw meat of various types in French, Italian, Ethiopian, Thai, Korean, Japanese, and Lebanese recipes, and I'm probably forgetting a few--it seems a universal habit.
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Don't they have google in the trailer parks in south Florida?
I was looking under googel.com, no wonder I couldn't find nuttin. Thanks for the helps!
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Oh, it's definitely Americans that freak about raw food items. They can't even handle things not being pasteurized. There's nothing quite like unpasteurized butter. Nothing.
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I know that's why we can have ceviche without worrying.)
Ahhh, I have a friend in Miami who is from Peru, his wife makes ceviche that is so good it makes your mouth orgasm.
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sounds great--do you have her recipe?
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Do NOT eat steak tar tar from commercial ground beef, my friend. You need to go to a butcher and get the beef ground for you and eat it that night. Or go to a good steak house.
Anyhow, I thought steak tar tar was illegal in all US restaurants.
And no, you can't eat chicken raw, the risk is too high.
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Anyhow, I thought steak tar tar was illegal in all US restaurants.
Apparently not, although given the paranoia of our food laws it's almost surprising that it isn't. I've had it at restuarants quite recently, and they weren't exactly steakhouses. But it almost seems silly to order it in a restaurant--if I'm going to pay restaurant prices I want to get some cooking for my money--not something I can toss together myself in my own kitchen in under five minutes!
If they made it illegal, what would be next--really rare steak?
Do NOT eat steak tar tar from commercial ground beef...You need to go to a butcher and get the beef ground for you...
Does the farmer's market count?
In what way is a butcher's shop not 'commercial'? I think anytime I pay money for something, it is by definition commercial? But if you mean "don't use random, hormone-and-antibiotic-laced beef from some cow that lived in a factory", then I would agree with you. I try to stick with 100% grass-fed beef.
...and eat it that night
The last time I made steak tartare I ate half of it then and the other half maybe three or four days later. Didn't have any problem.
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LordBerners, I think raw meat can make you sick with or without food poisioning, with or without an incubation period, and here's my most recent anecdote:
Weekend before last, I cooked rare steaks, as my partner likes, and it was delicious. Last weekend I cooked the same steaks from the same store the same way, and it tasted a little funky to me, and I got diarrhea about 15 minutes after finishing eating and it lasted for 2 days. My partner had no reaction.
The only difference is that the steaks I cooked before had been frozen and then thawed, and the more recent steaks had never been frozen, just refridgerated.
Most of it I chalk up to a random episode of my IBS, but part of me can't help to think if the lack of freezing had anything to do with it.
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In what way is a butcher's shop not 'commercial'? I think anytime I pay money for something, it is by definition commercial? But if you mean "don't use random, hormone-and-antibiotic-laced beef from some cow that lived in a factory", then I would agree with you. I try to stick with 100% grass-fed beef.
I think he means commercial as in ground up, packaged and exposed to oxygen for days at a supermarket. When you get it at a butcher and then go home and make it the same day there's less exposure to oxygen which cuts down on potential bacteria/parasite risks. In fact, if you really wanted to be fierce you'd grind it yourself at home, or chop it by hand with a meat cleaver. Isn't what you're buying at the farmer's market packaged and not ground as you're standing right there?
By the same token when you go to a butcher you should specify that you are using tenderloin for tartare so that they grind the best cut of beef for you.
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All this talk of meat reminded me that I just recently saw the movie Food, Inc., it's a documentary that exposes the horrors of the commercial food industry. According to the film, there are only a handful of companies (Tyson, Smithfield, and like 2 or 3 others) that produce the vast majority of meat in the US (beef, chicken, pork, etc.) and the conditions in all of their plants are deplorable. These are factory farms where the animals are raised sloppily, living in horrible conditions and killed not just inhumanely but downright cruelly.
The movie shows all sorts of statistics about how in the 1970s the FDA inspected a big percentage of the plants whereas now very few FDA inspections happen (relative to the number of plants), I don't remember the exact numbers but it was scary.
On the flip side I was watching Ina Garten (love her!), the Barefoot Contessa on The Food Network, who was making some yummy burgers using "Niman Ranch" beef. These are grass fed cows who are impeccably raised and humanely slaughtered.
I know not everyone can afford it but even if it means eating it less often, when having beef, chicken, pork, lamb, etc., why not splurge and go for the good stuff? Animals who are raised organically, fed correctly, treated right and slaughtered humanely. Apart from all the other good reasons, this kind of meat tastes much better.
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Inchingblue,
I agree completely--I think everyone should see that film.
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We eat steak tartare once a week. We only eat ground round that is 95% fat free. Spread on dark rye bread and topped with sliced raw onion, salt and pepper. We don't do the raw egg thing, however sometimes we add capers. It's one of our favorite dinners.
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Onion! That's what I forgot when I gave my recipe before--lots of onion!
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I have never touched it not because of the raw meat thing, but because of the raw egg stuck on the top in most recipes (at least when I have seen friends eat it).
Raw egg grosses me out to no end.
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Does the farmer's market count?
In what way is a butcher's shop not 'commercial'? I think anytime I pay money for something, it is by definition commercial? But if you mean "don't use random, hormone-and-antibiotic-laced beef from some cow that lived in a factory", then I would agree with you. I try to stick with 100% grass-fed beef.
I was meaning to explain that beef that is presented to you, already ground, in a package - you don't know what cuts of meat have gone into it and thecases of ecoli poisoning from beef have been from undercooked pre-ground factory produced "hamburger" meat. You need to cook this meat well done.
If you are buying steaks from a reputable butcher, you run far less risk, either as rare steak, or ground up for steak tartar.
Steak tar tar is traditinally made from SIRLOIN or MIGNON. Pre-prepared ground round isn't the raw material to make it and its dangerous to boot.
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And, by the way, wild Pacific salmon has far less chemicals than Atlantic farmed salmon. Now if only there were wild cows, we could have wild free range steak tar tar!
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And, by the way, wild Pacific salmon has far less chemicals than Atlantic farmed salmon. Now if only there were wild cows, we could have wild free range steak tar tar!
Good idea, but if we had wild cows they would probably be a protected species, at least in the U.S.
What would be really cool, would be vulture tartare. Those damn birds ruin many a windscreen here in Texas. I can even see variations, with the signs..."Chicken-Fried Turkey Buzzard Served Here."
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Just the thought of raw meat gives me explosive poo. Please, eat met cooked!
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Mecch,
You write:
thecases of ecoli poisoning from beef have been from undercooked pre-ground factory produced "hamburger" meat.
It sounds reasonable to me to suppose that operative word in the above sentence is not the "pre-ground" bit that you are so concerned with but rather the "factory" part.
To put it simply, either there is e-coli in the beef to begin with, or there is not. If there is, the beef will hurt me even if I eat it the minute it is ground. If not, it is not going magically to develop e-coli because a day or two passed after the beef was ground. Therefore, the appropriate outlet for any energy we want to expend in thinking about this is to make sure the beef comes from a reputable and clean source to begin with--not to obsess about when the grinding took place.
For me the non-negotiables are--and with the general principles that you express I should think you would agree here--that the beef must come from a clean, local organic farm where the cows are pastured and treated humanely. A farm that goes to those lengths is also pretty likely to be hygienic enough that the risk of e-coli should be minimal.
Now, I'm sure there are butcher shops that get their meat from such farms, but what does the butcher shop prove? The whole idea behind buying locally is that we give the farmers themselves a living wage, by eliminating the various middle-men. Why should I go to a butcher who bought the beef from the farmer when I can go directly to the farmer? That a farmer sells to a butcher (rather than directly to me at the farmer's market) is no guarantee that his meat is pristine; it is only a guarantee that he is running a big enough operation to be selling to a butcher. But it is precisely the larger operations that I think are more dangerous.
If I really cared about the beef being ground the moment before I ate it, I would buy a grinder and grind it myself. But I am not convinced that this is important. Beef gets e-coli by being exposed to e-coli, either because it is in the cow or in the equipment used to grind the beef. If e-coli is in either one of those things, my tartare will be fatal even if I eat it five seconds after grinding. If not, I do not thing it will become contaminated by being exposed to oxygen for one or two days. If e-coli were just floating around in the air in that way, ready to infest anything exposed to oxygen, it would be infecting many other things (our salads? fruits and nuts?) and we would all have dropped dead long ago. Besides, even a steak that has not been ground is still exposed to oxygen on all its surfaces--to follow your idea to its logical conclusion, we would have to prepare and eat our meat the very moment the cow was slaughtered. It simply does not stand to reason, for me, that healthy steak is going to become lethal simply because it was ground a day or two ago.
Finally, if we are really worried about contamination, there is a far more effective method of protecting ourselves than watching the butcher grind our meat: that is to freeze it for two weeks before eating. I do not do so myself, but if I were less confident of my farmer's hygenic standards than I am, that is what I would do to solve the problem.
As for the tradtional cuts of sirloin or mignon, I shall keep that in mind for the day when I have a few extra pennies to spend on my table, but for now I am struggling to eat well on a very tight budget, and since I do not compromise with anything that is not organic, and since moreover there are certain luxuries which, because I am fighting HIV and need to stay strong, I will not do without--such as wild salmon, and cod liver oil--the tenderer cuts will have to wait. In the meantime I live largely on rice, beans, eggs, and saurkraut, and my meat comes largely in the form of liver and kidneys, stew meat, and ground beef.
And, by the way, wild Pacific salmon has far less chemicals than Atlantic farmed salmon. Now if only there were wild cows, we could have wild free range steak tar tar!
You are correct about wild salmon; I wouldn't touch farmed salmon (or any farmed fish) with a ten-foot pole. But there is an equivalent in the world of beef. Cow has not been a wild animal for thousands of years, but a cow on pasture, eating grass,---look for "100% grass-fed and grass-finished" AND they have to guarantee that the "grass" in question is really green stuff, and not corn--and you have the bovine equivalent of wild pacific salmon. Plus, there is always Bison, which makes a great tartare too. It is to farms such as these, and not to the butcher, that I recommend you look.
One last note--I just saw my doctor and got my latest "numbers", (see below) and while they aren't what I had hoped for, I can at least say that my enthusiasm for raw meat, over the past few months, hasn't exactly driven me to an early grave!
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Hmmmm... another poo thread, kind of timely for me too.
I just had a horrible weekend of stomach cramps and while I cannot link my case to the meal I had on Friday evening (actually I already started feeling "funny" last Thursday after eating a big bowl of suspicious noodles in an airport in China), we did order beef carpaccio and a goat cheese salad. Both were fantastic, but a few hours later I was waken up by this horrible pain/cramps that it felt like someone was pounding my stomach and chests the whole night.
I was hoping it would clear up itself after a few visits to the bathroom but by the afternoon I finally dragged myself out of the house to see a doctor. And just today (3 days later) I am able to start eating normally...
In any case I think eating while traveling for work in places like China is more of a health hazard for me than the occasional raw beef/fish, .. it's difficult sometimes to avoid certain places while traveling and it's difficult to keep to a normal meal schedule. Only just 2 months ago I had another case of horrible diarrhea after eating in a restaurant in Beijing. It was a confirmed case of (minor) food poisoning as my two friends eating with me were both reporting diarrhea just hours after the meal...
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Komnaes,
Having lived in China for several years, I can say that almost every foreigner who went there had the same complaint. Many attribute it to the very unhealthy rapeseed oil which is often used in the cooking; others to the water which, one way or another, cannot be entirely avoided. By the way, midway through my second year in China (this was also six months after getting HIV, although I didn't know it at the time) I had a bout of it myself; someone recommended yogurt, I took his adivce, and the problem went away immediately!
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Well, duh queen (edit: meaning Shaun) -- with your numbers I'd not be eating raw meat either.
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Well, duh queen (edit: meaning Shaun) -- with your numbers I'd not be eating raw meat either.
Well, this queen seems to have developed a penchant for raw meat some years ago and it's been a downward spiral ever since...
OK, raw beef = bad idea.. I will write that 200 times on the blackboard after class...
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Uh, chèvre is goats' milk cheese. Your looking for tartare de cheval here.
Thanks hon, my brain fails me at times - lots of times! ;)
If I could be sure of the source, I might try steak tartare (is that the correct spelling?), especially if it was the aforementioned cheval, which I found very tasty. Of course, its not available in the U.S., and I heard Britain was going to ban it or had already banned it, so I guess I won't be tasting it too soon.
So, why the hubbub about farm-raised fish?
HUGS,
Mark
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Mark, regarding farm raised salmon, I've read that it is advised to limit consumption due to unacceptable mercury levels.
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In any case I think eating while traveling for work in places like China is more of a health hazard for me than the occasional raw beef/fish, ..
Just curious, do you mean before your HIV diagnosis? I thought China did not allow visitors who are HIV+
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Just curious, do you mean before your HIV diagnosis? I thought China did not allow visitors who are HIV+
He lives in Hong Kong so he's a Chinese citizen. He probably just meant "mainland China".
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I've got to ask, you guys are aware, aren't you, that tartare de cheval is horse meat?
Here are a couple links to some interesting tid-bits about horse meat:
http://en.allexperts.com/e/h/ho/horse_meat.htm
http://equinejustice.blogspot.com/2009/08/would-you-like-some-amphetamines-with.html
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I've got to ask, you guys are aware, aren't you, that tartare de cheval is horse meat?
lol nice... mr. ed comes to dinner :o
kidding aside, are you guys aware that steak tartare is a potential vector for toxoplasmosis, the treatment for which is additional lifelong meds? check out the link: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/brochures/toxo.htm
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I've got to ask, you guys are aware, aren't you, that tartare de cheval is horse meat?
Yes, of course -- and I assumed Mark knows too. I ate a cheval burger once when I was 14 when I was in Cap d'Antibes.
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Hey LB,
Was it chevre'? (My French spelling sucks, so forgive me.)
You mean horse? No, it was just beef. Here in Thailand there's not much horse around.
I wish I could try the horse version of course.
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kidding aside, are you guys aware that steak tartare is a potential vector for toxoplasmosis, the treatment for which is additional lifelong meds?
According to them, it's not just raw meat that we "must" avoid, but any meat that is not well-done. They say to avoid only raw or rare meat, but that is dishonest, because they then go on to say:
"cook meat until it is no longer pink in the center."
Meat that has been cooked until it is no longer pink in the center is not only not rare; it is well-done. So to start out with, even by these standards, we cannot single out raw meat as a "vector"; even a steak cooked to "medium" is still suspect.
To give them credit, they do go on to say:
"Red meat is also safe from toxo if it has been frozen for at least 24 hours, smoked, or cured."
That's what I've said twice above, and for the nervous, "freeze it first" is a far more humane message than "don't eat it!"
They go on to say that chicken and eggs do not carry toxo, but then add:
"However, you should still cook these foods until well done because of the risk for other diseases."
I've never before heard an egg described as "well done", but I suspect the authors of this tract would frown on the runny yolks of my sunny-side eggs and soft-boileds, (not to mention the raw yolks in my mayonnaise, egg nog, sukiyaki, and, oh yes, tartare...)
I am looking forward to the next installment in which they warn us to stay home and not cross streets, which are, after all, a "potential vector" for getting hit by a car.
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So to start out with, even by these standards, we cannot single out raw meat as a "vector"; even a steak cooked to "medium" is still suspect.
well sure...that's sort of a given. just like with sex and depending on the meat, raw can carry risk :o
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Yep eating raw meats and fish CAN give one the 'green apple quick step'. I'm sure the rational advice for pozzies is to avoid all raw fish, meats and wash/scrub all veggies.
That being said...
I LOVE sushi, raw oysters, cevechi, kibbee nayee (raw lamb with bulger wheat and spices) and the most I'll cook a steak is medium rare. I am in NO way telling others to do the same. I buy my food fresh--my kibbee comes from a Halal butcher and chef, fish/sushi/oysters EXTREMELY fresh or I won't touch them.
I look at it as a quality of life issue for me and a decision I've made based on real informed consent. I know the risks, I know what to do to limit the risks and I weighed the risk/benefits. I think this is a good way to think about a lot of the issues I face with HIV.
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btw, in the Sushi thread in the Nutrition forum this same subject came up and I provided a link to a comment by Dr. Gallant (and I know many of you masturbate at the thought of him /jk ) and he agreed with my statement that the intake of these foods for HIV+ people is entirely dependent on their cd4 number.
I've never understood why some people think that there's a one size fits all for this topic. It's not very logical frankly.
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btw, in the Sushi thread in the Nutrition forum this same subject came up and I provided a link to a comment by Dr. Gallant (and I know many of you masturbate at the thought of him /jk ) and he agreed with my statement that the intake of these foods for HIV+ people is entirely dependent on their cd4 number.
I've never understood why some people think that there's a one size fits all for this topic. It's not very logical frankly.
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I think I'm missing where the 'one size fits all' hypothesis is in this thread. Perhaps I haven't read it closely enough. Also, CD4 levels are one important indicator of immune response 'health' but when it comes to foods and 'cooties' (Bacteria, parasites etc) there are a lot more complex systems involved. One factiod that highlights this example: CD4 is not neccessarily an indicator of 'gut health' or the optimum operation of the digestive tract and its ability to manage bactiera and parasities. CD4s are more important after the fact in this scenario if the gut isn't dealing with the cootie well.
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If your digestive tract didn't take a huge hit from long-term HIV infection, i don't see why people feel like they have to make blanket generalisations. Its all so damn sloppy. I bet there are quite a few LTS who have reconstituted a good digestive flora and enjoy their meat as well.
For my part, I have perfect BMs and intend to eat delicious foods from all the groups for the rest of my days. , washed down with wine and water and toasted with cocktails if the occassion calls. And then a cigar.
Live it up my friends.... Thats my blanket generalisation. Don't be an alcoholic and don't be a regular smoker..
Yep, thats what i was saying too, one size does not fit all. If I had wrecked immunity and wrecked digestion, I doubt I'd be slamming oysters and champagne with no regrets.
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I've got to ask, you guys are aware, aren't you, that tartare de cheval is horse meat?
Here are a couple links to some interesting tid-bits about horse meat:
http://en.allexperts.com/e/h/ho/horse_meat.htm
http://equinejustice.blogspot.com/2009/08/would-you-like-some-amphetamines-with.html
Yes, I knew it was horse. It was very tasty too! ;D
I have been, and will continue to be, one of those who will spout off the dire warnings for those whose immune systems are substantially compromised.
But I do have to agree with Philly, et. al., regarding the need to balance these precautions based on our real life situations.
My CD4s haven't dropped below 900 in more than a decade and I've been undetectable for longer than that.
I pretty much eat what I want, well, sort of, anyway. I do watch the cholesterol because I have to .
But I love medium rare steaks or leg of lamb, and I do eat sushi and sashimi once in a while.
If I didn't live in a landlocked state where all seafood must be flown in or frozen and shipped, I would probably feel easier about sushi.
I also am somewhat leery of eating rare game meat. Too many chances for parasites.
But, I digress,
HUGS,
Mark
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I had explosive D twice today after a night of foie gras, bone marrow and sweetbreads but those are all cooked. Must have been the Manhattan, champagne, and five glasses of wine.
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honey, sounds like too high a fat diet for one night. besides, manhattans are sacred...it couldn't have been that. god, i love bourbon. ;)
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Don't worry, it was kinda tapas style and everything was shared among three of us, so I didn't get more than a few bites of each item. Plus I eat like a bird.
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Plus I eat like a bird.
Don't birds eat 10 times their bodyweight each day? ;D
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Don't worry, it was kinda tapas style and everything was shared among three of us, so I didn't get more than a few bites of each item. Plus I eat like a bird.
But drink like a fish? :-*
Was it a red wine? Burgundy and sometimes merlot have been known to do that explosive thing for me...
Assurbanipal (a scotch type)
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But drink like a fish? :-*
Was it a red wine? Burgundy and sometimes merlot have been known to do that explosive thing for me...
Assurbanipal (a scotch type)
Yeah, it was 3 glasses of red wine, all Spanish -- one glass was sent over by the vineyard owner who was eating. 1 glass of white dessert wine, and then a later glass of port before bed. Someone else was doing all of the ordering (and paying) so I can't be any more specific :) I just provide the entertainment and try to look pretty.