Every other day dosing

[egello]

Any LTS here that didn't really go with the traditional dosing plan of taking the meds every day but did it every other day or every third day and still had good result? I remember reading one post about it, but wasn't sure if that person was the only one who had success with it or is still continuing to have success with it.

I am asking because I might do that with my current combo. I had really good viral suppression with this combo which is usually the case, but wondering what would happen if I took Norvir every other day or take the whole combo every other day?

Is there any safe way of doing tihs ?

[Peter Staley]

Egello -- all the research I've ever seen has concluded that frequent underdosing (and underdosing is exactly what you've described) invariably leads to drug resistance, and ultimately failure of that regimen.  This might also lead to cross-resistance to drugs you aren't even taking.

You could easily blow lots of treatment options with the strategy you are pondering.

Peter Staley
Founder
AIDSmeds.com

[Miss Philicia]

This is the 2nd post in 24 hours, egello, where you've attempted to re-invent acceptable protocols for HIV treatment.  Would you mind me asking what has prompted this exactly?

[egello]

Ok, so here it goes,,, recently, I have been taking some Pepc Ac for little heartburn. Not whole a lot, maybe once a week, and I read about the interaction between Reyataz and any heartburn meds like Pepc Ac. And since I'vebeen doing very well on my boosted reyataz combo, I asked my doc about changing my med to Atripla to make my life bit simpler. So I was on Atripla for about 9 days now and I was hating it. Especially with the kind of work I do, I couldn't spend 2/3 of my day being confused and cloudy. Therefore, I was doing some research on what is best drug out there to avoid Lipoatrophy and etc... and came across a posting from I think 2007 where this one guy talks about how he took his med every other day and for two years, his virus level was undetc and cd4 went up. I don't know how he is doing now, but Matt aka. Newt responded back to him as well. Thats where I kind of got the idea. I mean, if one is not being overly medicated, why did my trig. level go up (not dangerous level) but even slightly? I thought combination of Truvada works to counteract the way Reyataz makes the trig. level go up... no? I will be too scared to do this every other day dosing anyways, but was just an idea and a curiosity to see if anyone else was doing it.

Thats all, no evil intended. .....

[Robert]

egello.

I know one of our bloggers, SHAWN takes his meds every other week.  I've always wondered how he is doing and what his numbers are but he never blogs about it.  I know it's something I'd be interested in.

robert

 

[egello]

omg, like he will take his meds one week and not take them for another whole week?

[dixieman]

? I find not taking the meds as directed is like playing russian roulette... the stupidity of people never ends to amaze me... not picking on anyone... but, when ones drugs fail... I don't want to read or hear about it!

[atlq]

Any LTS here that didn't really go with the traditional dosing plan of taking the meds every day but did it every other day or every third day and still had good result? I remember reading one post about it, but wasn't sure if that person was the only one who had success with it or is still continuing to have success with it.

I am asking because I might do that with my current combo. I had really good viral suppression with this combo which is usually the case, but wondering what would happen if I took Norvir every other day or take the whole combo every other day?

Is there any safe way of doing tihs ?

No.

This has been another edition of short answers to simple questions....

[Dachshund]

Try to remember folks that the majority of LTS know no more about the drugs you are using than you do. We only began taking the drugs you're taking when they became available to us. We hope to get the same results you do. An undetectable viral load and hopefully a higher CD4. I've been poz twenty something years, on meds maybe a dozen and now Prezista for a year. I'm in no better position to advise on Prezista than a one year infected noob using the same regimen. LTS aren't magical AIDS unicorns with special powers.

In fact I think the term LTS used in the forum is a misnomer. To me a fifty year old infected five years ago and recently on HAART is no LTS. To me our health problems are a direct result of the battering our bodies took premeds and then the side effects we suffered from the no-other-choice toxic cocktails. We were lucky and nothing else.

I think someone wasn't getting the attention they needed with multiple postings in another forum and decided to OMG the old folks.

[jkinatl2]

A lot of this depends on the genetic structure of the patient and the strain of virus.

I am resistant to both NNRTI and NRTI drugs, thanks to interrupted therapies (mainly due to toxic side effects, but lets be honest, not totally). I am down to a select few new PIs, integrase inhibitors, and perhaps entry inhibitors if my tests come back allowing them.

And then? Maybe I would have something out of the maturation inhibitors? Cellular inhibitors? But without complimentary classes of viable drugs, the virus will quickly become resistant to those. THAT is why we take several drugs out of different classes. Atripla, for example, is a combination of several different classes of drug treatments in one pill.

Burning through the classes of drugs (and some are more prone to resistance than others) might leave you leapfrogging too far ahead of the latest science. Which would basically leave you screwed.

Moreover, I have noticed that irregular dosing only makes the side effects continue, if not worsen, instead of slowly dissipating. Frankly, if you are not prepared to go through a couple months of commitment to the meds and dealing with side effects, it would be better not to go on drugs at all.

As was made clear at the Mexico conference, it is HIGHLY unlikely that we are going to see breakthroughs the likes of the last few years in the near future. Refinements of the existing classes of drugs, absolutely. But for now, the pipeline looks a lot less promising.

Please believe me, this virus can still kill you. More to the point, it can erode your life until it's total and complete crap. Pain beyond measure, disfigurement, infections that tear chunks out of your skin and organs, not to mention a viral load which, all by itself, can  cause profound fatigue and anemia and dementia if left to soar in the millions.

But ya know something? I didn't listen to the old timers either. So best of luck to you. I recommend the eggs and bacon for breakfast during your hospital stay. It seems to be the only edible meal they serve there. Oh, and don't forget to check your dignity at the door, because that tube? the one that doesn't go in your arm or up your nose? It's going right into your penis.

Fun times. And for those who are new (or newish) to meds, who have not burned through whole classes of drugs, absolutely unnecessary. We LTS folks took the first gen of these things, and suffered the results. If you feel like you have to do the same with the current meds, go for it. It's your life. Your health.

Oh, and prepare to be poor. That's the BEST part of AIDS.

Honestly not bitter, but with little patience for those offered amazing opportunities and choose tor reject them.

Jonathan

[Robert]

omg, like he will take his meds one week and not take them for another whole week?

yeah, that's exactly what I mean.  I just wish he would talk about it more.  I remember he mentioned his numbers once and they wern't all that great.  Can't remember exactly what they were but I do know he was not undetectable.

robert

[Robert]

hey egello...

check it out.  Just today Shawn blogged about his latest test results.  They're not bad:

Went in to see Dr. Greg today, and my t-cell count was 483 (26%), which is pretty much the same as it has been for the last year or so: good news.
Going in to draw the labs a couple of days before was kind of a waste of time, since the viral load test hadn't come back yet. I am curious about the results, because the blood was taken at the tail end of my week off cycle. (For newbies, I take my HIV meds on a 7/7 cycle-

YOu can read it yourself at Shawn's Blog..  It's certainly encouraging......

robert

[Miss Philicia]

It's certainly encouraging......

If you base medical decisions on what one person says on a computer versus what is documented in innumerable studies, yeah.

[IAMWENDY]

I can't speak to the "every other day dosing" as I have not tried it.  What I have done is to empty capsules to 1/2 full and break tablets into 1/2 doses.  I began this regimen 5 years ago and my viral load remained undetectable and CD4 counts continued to improve.  I also take meds once a day that are intended to betaken twice. This approach was taken without the knowledge of my doctor.   About a year ago my doctor was applauding my progress and I suggested that perhaps we could reduce my dosages.   His response was "Since you're doing so well, I think we should keep things just as they are."  At that juncture, I revealed my unauthorized behavior with the meds.  I'm not advocating or rejecting any decision you choose to make.  To me the key is "How well do you know yourself" and do you trust your intuition or are you experimenting blindly?  I might be smart, lucky or ultimately foolish, but for now it is working for me.  If you believe it, do it, but keep a close eye on on your counts and adjust your methods responsibly.

[BT65]

Ummm, this thread is over a year old.

[Robert]

I can't speak to the "every other day dosing" as I have not tried it.  What I have done is to empty capsules to 1/2 full and break tablets into 1/2 doses.  I began this regimen 5 years ago and my viral load remained undetectable and CD4 counts continued to improve.  I also take meds once a day that are intended to betaken twice. This approach was taken without the knowledge of my doctor.   About a year ago my doctor was applauding my progress and I suggested that perhaps we could reduce my dosages.   His response was "Since you're doing so well, I think we should keep things just as they are."  At that juncture, I revealed my unauthorized behavior with the meds.  I'm not advocating or rejecting any decision you choose to make.  To me the key is "How well do you know yourself" and do you trust your intuition or are you experimenting blindly?  I might be smart, lucky or ultimately foolish, but for now it is working for me.  If you believe it, do it, but keep a close eye on on your counts and adjust your methods responsibly.

wendy.  I applaud your approach.  I think HAART is highly individualized and there's nothing wrong with adapting it to your own needs.  Of course we know not everyone agrees with that but as long as we put a caveat on it, I think we've covered out bases. On my first regmine (Truvada, Reyataz, Norvir) I also 'watered-down' the dosage by only taking it 5 days/week.  It had no negative effects on my numbers. I have never liked the Norvir supplement so last month I changed my regmine to Reyataz and Epzicom.  I'm going to wait and see how my numbers respond before I start fiddling about with the dosage.  If things go as planned then I'll start to cut back on the dosage as well.

Thanks for sharing.

robert

[kuttakamina]

This is very interesting news and I seriously wonder why this is not much talked about my doctors and nurses or why enough study and research is not done on it.

Can somebody answer this: First, the VL may be in the thousands or hundreds of thousands, so you take these strong toxins called meds. When it goes undetectable soon, can't the dosage of meds be dropped significantly or give low doses as maintenance? What are they killing after it's already UD?

You will say it's killing the VL that's hiding, but then they could not kill it in the first place when your VL was so high?

I think these mad scientists need to get their heads out of their a** and really give us a treatment that won't cause all the horrible side effects.

[sharkdiver]

um... meds are the reason why I am still around.

[sharkdiver]

So Kutta

do you see a Doctor for your HIV or do you just see a D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine)? 
What drugs were you on before?  How long have you been poz?  btw this thread is over a year old....zombie thread

[AndyArrow]

I don't find this thread interesting.

I find it rather disturbing and only hope some newbie won't come along and think that it is OK to cut their dose because some else does it. 

Talking about how you cut your dose and are fine and then adding a caveat doesn't really create much of a deterrent.  I've actually gone off my meds completely in the past (lots of different reasons but cost was a big factor) and was absolutely fine ... FOR AWHILE until I ended up in the hospital. 

So to anyone out there who is considering changing your dosing without talking to your doctor DON"T!!!!  And if you do and it kills you don't come back and haunt me just to tell me I was right.

[BT65]

Well said, Andy.