Mutual masturbation+fingering+menstrual bleeding risks

[scared_from_life]

First; I am not english/american by origin, so therefore excuse me for possible grammar errors.

I had a sexual encounter with a woman some time ago, and letīs assume she is HIV positive. I did NOT have sexual intercourse with her at any time (head of my penis was minimum two inches away from her genital areas). But what we did was mutual masturbation and fingering (I have read lessons and know it should be safe) and there are some issues unclear.

I fingered her for a short period of time with one finger, with perhaps 2/3 of my finger inside her vagina. Immidiately after that I touched my penis head (foreskin was pulled back). Because of the masturbation she had done (pretty rough) there might have been some bruises on the head of my penis (area under foreskin, with muscuous membrane). But there were no actual bleeding wounds, just sores and possibly small abrasions.

Is there any chance that:

1) Her vaginal fluids would infect me with HIV?
2) Possible menstrual blood from her vagina would infect me (there were some sores/abrasions on head of my penis)?

I'm most worried because there were some small bruises in muscuous membrane area, but I touched that area only with my finger, which could have fluid/menstrual blood on it. Is there any possibility for HIV-infection, should I get tested? We did not have vaginal or anal intercourse at any point, nor oral sex.

[Ann]

Scared,

Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse where the virus never leaves the confines of the two human bodies.

Once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect.

For this reason getting some vaginal fluid - even menstrual fluid - on your penis is not going to lead to hiv infection even if you have abrasions present.

Fingering is not a risk for hiv infection. Being masturbated is not a risk for hiv infection. You did not have a risk for hiv infection. You do not need to test.


You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST OVER THIS INCIDENT anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[scared_from_life]

Hi Ann, and thank You for quick reply. I almost totally understood this from previous threads, but the sores just made me think that if there is a risk.

I have one more thing to ask regarding this:
Is there any kind of possibility to get infected through touching head of penis with ones fingers/hands (with fluid/blood on hands), would it infect even if one had a bleeding wound in head of penis? Or is it just so, that hiv is not transmitted through fingers/hands hiv no matter what, period? And this because hiv needs the environment inside vagina/anus to be able to infect?

(There were not even small cuts on my hands).

[Matty the Damned]

That's right Scared.

Touching a wounded penis will not transmit HIV in either direction.

MtD

[scared_from_life]

Thank You again for answer. One thing is that I could not find a totally clarifying answer from anywhere: is it so that any vaginal fluid (including menstrual blood) is infective only when it is in cervical area? When it leaves this area it is not able to infect anymore?

Is this why frottage is no risk (no contact on cervical area, I'm referring to one previous topic here) and fingering is no risk (fingers can not reach this area)?

[Andy Velez]

As soon as it is outside of the vagina HIV quickly becomes non-viable. The circumstances you are worried about are very common. We would have known decades before today if there was any real risk. And there isn't.

You are worrying needlessly.

[scared_from_life]

I want to thank everyone who answered in this thread, although many same things had been in other threads already. I just needed assurance for my case (and got it).

I'm not sure if You even realize how important work You are doing here. I was practically on the edge of suicide for two weeks until I found You and found out the situation was no-risk. If I should have waited for three months would it have been too hard mentally. It still is very hard to find useful information about HIV after almost 30 years of pandemy, unless one doesn't know exactly where to look for.

Thank You!

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome. We're glad to have been helpful to you.

Stay well. You won't have any problems with sexual risk for HIV as long as you consistently use condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse.

[scared_from_life]

Hi again,

I hate to return to this matter, but some doubts entered my mind. I went to book a time to get my other STDs checked (thanks Ann for reminding me of this!) in a place which is not actually a doctor center or hospital, but more of a support house for drug users, which does also STD testing (I live in Finland and practically all hospitals are closed or only on standby in summer).

Anyhow, after I told my case (the same, mutual masturbation with vaginal fluids) the "nurse" adviced me to check HIV with rapid test called "Determine HIV 1/2". She took a blood sample from finger, placed it on a sort of a stripe and waited 15 min. One line appeared telling that test went OK, but second line did not appear (meaning it was negative). I think it is test by Abbott, it was only antibody test, not antigen. Test took place 40 days and 18 hours after the masturbation event, so not quite six weeks (where XX %, XX close to 100, should seroconvert) but very close.

Then I told about information I found in Aidsmeds and in Dr. HHH forum, all saying no risk. She didn't know what to say, she said that it really (in practise) requires intercourse to become infected and she perhaps did not see any real need to test, but anyway did it... I asked her if the test was ELISA test, she had never heard of the term which made me doubt her knowledge of the whole thing. It seemed as she was doing the testing as an extra work only.

This leads to me again asking:

3. Is Determine HIV 1/2 a reliable test, is it ELISA? It has 3 months conclusivity window, and I suppose it also could detect most infections by six weeks?

4. Do I have anything real to worry? I think not but the nurses unsecurity caused some small panic to me again. Finland is not in any means top country in HIV research, so I bet information here is not as good as it is for those who study the disease all the time. Routes to infection should be the same everywhere in the world if I got it right.

5. Anyhow:

- no infections by mutual masturbation ever happened documentedly, it is even recommended to those who want to stay negative in all imaginable scenarios
- no infections even in laboratory this way (monkeys/apes) as I understood from forums previous threads
- HIV is not infectuous outside its host (only inside vagina/anus)
- 40 day test negative, and with modern testing (year 2010) seroconverting after 6 weeks is extremely rare (if it even occurs at all)

Do I need more testing or am I just over-reacting?

Again, sorry for repeating these things, one month without any panic but this made me think it all over again.

[Ann]

scared,

You didn't have a risk and your negative result is not going to change no matter what test is used.

No you don't have anything to worry about and yes, infection routes are the same the world over.

You do NOT need more testing! You did NOT have a risk!

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[Andy Velez]

Scared, as you have already been told repeatedly, YOU DID NOT HAVE A RISK FOR HIV. Period.

I can assure you that if you continue to search either online or in conversations with others for fuel to feed your fears you are definitely going to make trouble for yourself. All to no good purpose of course.

Testing over the incident that brought you here is totally unnecessary. You can waste resources and do it for your peace of mind and receive the inevitable negative result.

I am also going to warn you that if you continue to return here about the same non-risk issue, you are going to find yourself getting a Time Out from the site.

HIV is not your problem and sexually it won't be as long as you consistently use condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse.

Give it up and get on with your life. Really.