Effects of recreational drugs....

[manchesteruk]

Hi all,

Quick question if I were to have ecstasy on a saturday and had my latest set of labs the following friday would they effect my results?  Not as in the drug being detected in the blood but if it were to have any effects on cd4 counts etc i'm undetectable at the moment without meds would it have an effect on that?  I just want to know the risks basically so I can make an informed decision!

Thanks
Chris

[newt]

No.

MDMA taken on one night out will lower your CD4 count for 24 hrs. A really heavy weekend may lower it for a bit longer, but not more than 48 hrs after you decide to calm down. Paradoxically, the very short-term depression of a happy pill of a Sat evening may make you more vulnerable to colds, cold sores and the like, which, if you get one, will raise your CD4 count while they're happening.

Clearly, quantity is important. Popping 1 E for a gd night out is not the same as necking 15 E's n passing out on the dance floor/at the bus stop/some dodgy bloke's house.

- matt

[poet]

My concern would be this, and it doesn't apply to Chris because he is undetectable and not currently on meds.  Would someone, reading this thread on a Friday, go ahead with an ecstasy and keep to that, or would one ectasy lead to another e and/or something else and most of concern to me, would someone who IS on meds. miss a dose of meds or more than one dose of meds, not because of bloodwork being done at the end of the following week, but because missing doses is dangerous to controling hiv.  Matt has, as usual, answered Chris's question well.  I just want to get a reply posted for someone who is not Chris but reading this.  Win

[Moffie65]

I think it is interesting that Matt has really spelled this out as a person who really knows.  Unfortunately, most professionals give answers like, "you shouldn't do drugs".  Oh that life were so very cut and dried. 

In the end, a trip or two isn't going to change much of your life permanently, but like Win has stated, some don't have the ability to know the difference.  We can only deal with what we have in front of us, and in my case, I did what I wanted and did it when I wanted.  Sometimes it was a bad choice, but others were times I really learned from.  I was on vacation in San Diego one time and took some Cocaine that was so very pure that I tripped for the whole of the following day.  What I learned from that experience was to never do that again.  I loved it far too much to ever take it again, as I might become hopelessly hooked on the nice trip.  Yes, this was well after my diagnosis, but also well before any of us could actually keep records of the diseases progression in our bodies.  I think that main advice I could give you is; if you are planning on taking some substance for the weekend, then make sure you eat right, sleep when you can, and make sure your body is not going to have any permanent damage from your actions.  HIV loves it when we tire out our bodies, and it can reproduce far more aggressivily than if we don't take stuff and become hopelessly fatigued.

The main thing is to respect youself, and if taking a substance is not going to damage your self respect and not going to place you in a position of danger, then it is up to you.  Self destructive behavior is a whole other problem and if someone is hell bent on destroying themselves, then no amount of counsel or information is going to help them at all.  Chris, you are not one of those types, but there are those in the world who would misread my post and use it as proof that you can do anything you want.  Well, I guess you can, but I hope you won't.

In Love,

[clarke]

Well, when I lived in Vegas about 1978, I got a little "Brown Mexican" heroin.  I snorted it, and was off to never-never land.  The next day, I went to find the guy to get some more.  I found he had gotten busted during the night.  I took that as a "signal", and never touched it again.

I do smoke a little of the herb, mainly at night though, for my PN.

[BassMan]

Chris

I go out most Saturdays (Essential - you probably know it!  ) and am partial to the odd "disco biscuit" to help make the party go with a swing. However I never take more than 1 in an evening, and I take it as two halves, spaced (no pun intended!) at least 2 hours apart.

I should point out that I'm on 200mg of ritonavir a day, which as you may know, has the effect of boosting the blood levels of not just other PI's but also ecstacy and viagra. Before I started meds I could pop 2 or 3 e's over the course of a 6 or 8 hour night out, but not any more.

With regards to the effects on CD4 etc., when I first started meds I took to having a weekend off before having my blood drawn, just in case. I found that it didn't really make any difference and in fact some of my worst results have immediately followed a "clean" weekend. Go figure.

I asked my consultant for advice on the interaction between my meds and recreational pharmaceuticals, specifically ecstacy; whilst not condoning it, he just said that as long as I followed the usual precautions about taking regular breaks from dancing to avoid overheating - and drinking plenty (but not *too* much) of liquids, I should be OK.

My personal slant on it is there's a world of difference between use and abuse, and as long as you're centered enough to tell the difference, it's your call.

Hope this helps.

Carl
Manchester

[manchesteruk]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I don't have ecstacy all the time just occasionally but I have always wondered if it's having an effects on my body and if it's potentially going to damage my undetectable status so Matt's words were reassuring.  Dont worry though i'm not going to use this as an excuse to go on a 'lost' weekend as it were.  I normally stick to 1 or 2 pills if I ever have them i'm too much of a lightweight to have any more than that!  I actually live with an ex heroin addict who has promised to slap some sense into me if I ever take the drugs thing too far so no danger of that!  I've never been to essential Carl i've tried a couple of times with some mates but apparantly I don't look 'gay' enough haha.

[Eldon]

Hey Chris,


Just be careful. Take care of yourself.


Make the BEST of each Day!

[CApronda]

My CD4 and VL didn't fluctuate for 6 years.  I stopped doing drugs 3 months ago and my CD4 is 114 and VL 380000.  Go figure my Doc told me I have maybe 1 year.  I am not on any meds yet.

[Iggy]

.

[allopathicholistic]

My CD4 and VL didn't fluctuate for 6 years.  I stopped doing drugs 3 months ago and my CD4 is 114 and VL 380000.  Go figure my Doc told me I have maybe 1 year.  I am not on any meds yet.

Okay, and the conclusion you draw is _______________?  Fill in the blank