bad romance

[CalvinC]

Well, not even a romance, really.

I know what the responses (if any) to this will be, but I suppose I need to hear it anyway.

Had a few hookups (yes, that) with this guy who, when we're together, seems really smitten with me. I'm flattered. It's going well, as far as getting together goes.

Oddly, he doesn't readily reply to messages; and I'm not talking about "right away." I know that some people aren't tethered to their phones. (My sounds are always off, unless I know there'll be a message/call coming.) Well, okay, that isn't my business.

But last night we were going to get together, and he had a party to attend. He went early (7pm), presumably so that we'd meet up around 10 or 11 or so. I waited. Sent a few texts around 10. Gave up. Went to bed around 1.

Just turned on my phone. Message from him at 2am. "Sorry, party is just ending. I'm at home now." And I'm thinking, huh, you are thinking that I'll come over at 2am? (He lives about a half hour away by car.) No.

But you know, he's right in his presumption, isn't he? I mean, we've established what this is. And it's evident that this isn't enough for me, though now I lack one iota of courage to simply call it a day and cut my losses. This is painful and I don't know why. I thought I was bigger than all this, but I guess not. I'm not into pity-parties, for certain. But I feel stupid now.

[Jim Allen]

Oddly, he doesn't readily reply to messages; and I'm not talking about "right away." I know that some people aren't tethered to their phones. (My sounds are always off, unless I know there'll be a message/call coming.) Well, okay, that isn't my business.

So many possibilities jumps to mind..

• He's not that interested
• He's busy and forgots to respond
• Different expectation
• He doesn't want to seem too eager
• He doesn't understand how a delayed reply makes you feel
• “out of sight, out of mind” phenomenon more common with certain mental health challenges like ADHD
• He does see your messages but forgot to respond

The list could go on and on... I normally don't reply to people who text, message or whatsapp me unless I must or have had time to think about things. This drives certain people nuts, but I secretly enjoy that.

But last night we were going to get together, and he had a party to attend. He went early (7pm), presumably so that we'd meet up around 10 or 11 or so. I waited. Sent a few texts around 10. Gave up. Went to bed around 1.

Just turned on my phone. Message from him at 2am. "Sorry, party is just ending. I'm at home now." And I'm thinking, huh, you are thinking that I'll come over at 2am? (He lives about a half hour away by car.) No.

But you know, he's right in his presumption, isn't he? I mean, we've established what this is. And it's evident that this isn't enough for me, though now I lack one iota of courage to simply call it a day and cut my losses.

You might be right and you might be wrong.  Prehaps before cutting your losses, talk to him and let him know what is bothering you and what you want. See what he says.

[numbersguy82]

Phew I certainly had a few flashbacks to my own dating life while reading your post. I’m sorry this situation has you questioning things. It certainly doesn’t feel nice to be the only one making an effort in a dating situation.

My question would be is it out of the question for you both to continue as you are, at least for now? Sometimes we get pulled in different directions, and who knows your other half might just need some bandwidth freed up to better make the effort with you. On the flip side, would your current arrangement suit you better than being alone or starting over again with someone new? My experience has been that if things are meant to be then they will be… perhaps just not in the timetable we expected.

All the best to you, and I truly hope you get the result that you want and makes you happiest. Life is far too short not to be happy

[CalvinC]

Ah, yes, the possibilities; I had forgotten about those. Thanks for the reminder, Jim. I like "different expectations." That really says a good deal. As I reflect on what's happening, yeah, I see that now. But yes, too, the mature thing would be to have a talk, of sorts. It's kind of at that stage where you think: Does this have legs? .... But, well, different expectations, same planet but different worlds.

numbers, you say somewhat the same thing, with "different directions." I'm second guessing and I need to stop. I remember once someone telling me, in relation to my upset that someone had done or said something that I took exception to, that I didn't have to respond, that I could just do nothing. Responses aren't always required.

So, I thought I'd take a step back today and just do my own stuff. No calls or messages from him. And that's fine. I'm going away tomorrow to visit family, so there's a break.

[numbersguy82]

Enjoy your family time! Have a great weekend!

[CalvinC]

So much for family. Traffic is so horrific now in Toronto that the only time to get anywhere is after 9pm to 7am. Seriously. I turned around and came home.

Occurred to me: Having a talk with this guy would mean I'd be disclosing. We've been playing it very safe. He's never asked my status and I haven't asked his.I don't think that I have ever dated, since seroconverting, and disclosed -- and that's likely because I've pretty much stopped dating long-term. Or even dating. I've never been rejected because of my status, only because I've never disclosed. And y'all know why. Who wants the pain of it all? Easier to be alone.

[Jim Allen]

Occurred to me: Having a talk with this guy would mean I'd be disclosing. We've been playing it very safe. He's never asked my status and I haven't asked his.I don't think that I have ever dated, since seroconverting, and disclosed -- and that's likely because I've pretty much stopped dating long-term. Or even dating. I've never been rejected because of my status, only because I've never disclosed. And y'all know why. Who wants the pain of it all? Easier to be alone.

Sorry to hear.

My own experience has been great. I always share my HIV status early on whilst dating and except for one or two polite "no thank you" it's not been an issue.  I have been rejected romantically for other reasons of course, that's just a part of dating and life regardless of HIV status, and I've also been the one to put a stop to things for various reasons with some of the people I dated.

As for FWB & one night stands, my HIV status has never been an issue. I don't know but it might be somewhat different for me as I'm straight.

Anyhow, I hope things go well should you decide to talk with him.

[CalvinC]

Funny, as I was reading your response (and before I got to the straight part), I was thinking, I wonder if it's different for straight people. That's be interesting to know.

I was in error to say I've never disclosed. I did, when I tested poz and I was dating someone, and he absolutely freaked out. Really freaked out. Instead of saying, "I'm sorry" or something similar, he got on his cell phone right then and there and tried calling his GP.  He calmed down, eventually. And then dumped me a few days later. (Story is here, last reply: https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=76885.msg783268#msg783268)

What with prep and everything, I wonder if being poz has become less of an issue for some....

[Jim Allen]

Funny, as I was reading your response (and before I got to the straight part), I was thinking, I wonder if it's different for straight people. That's be interesting to know.

Funny enough the topic came up briefly on our last weekly call. https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=77329.msg787905

I can't say it's different, I do know confidence and delivery of the message make a difference regardless of other factors. However, reading everyone's stories, joining peer support groups, workshops and listening to people over these years I said on the call that it sure sounds like living with HIV makes dating and sex more challenging for LBTQ+ & women members.

What with prep and everything, I wonder if being poz has become less of an issue for some....

I doubt it. I am sure for some, it has made a difference, but generally, I don't think so. PrEP was never aimed at straight people in the past or was available to them depending on where you are etc. The HIV stigma and attitudes have changed minimally in 10-15 years, or prehaps even 20 years ago in my experience and if I believe the studies.

[Jim Allen]

when I tested poz and I was dating someone, and he absolutely freaked out. Really freaked out. Instead of saying, "I'm sorry" or something similar, he got on his cell phone right then and there and tried calling his GP.  He calmed down, eventually. And then dumped me a few days later. (Story is here, last reply: https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=76885.msg783268#msg783268)

Yeah, that's a terrible experience to have particularly when you at the time were still digesting the news of being diagnosed yourself and trying to get to grip with everything that comes with a diagnosis.

However, don't let that bad experience exclude you from relationships or love in life.

I think some people can't handle the idea of dating or staying in a relationship if their partner has a manageable condition including HIV or some sickness, disability etc. That is their problem/flaw, not yours or mine and those people you are better off rejecting as a date and it's best to find out sooner rather than later, its one of the reasons why I share my HIV status from the start. 

[CalvinC]

Yeah, Jim, hard to say whether attitudes have changed much. But where I live, there are billboards with smiling, very healthy-looking men, claiming "Biktarvy is nirvana! Call your doctor!" Well, not exactly that, but you know what I mean. So I wonder if this advertising in some inadvertent way establishes a new norm in which, hey, poz people aren't so bad after all!

I think I've shared this before, about PrEP. I had one of my sporting teams over for a get-together. Toward the end, there were four of us left, and the talk drifted into PrEP, can't recall why, with each of the three guys in turn stating that they were on PrEP and how it was going etc etc. Before the conversation might subtly turn to my confession, I, playing the good host, picked up a few plates and went to the kitchen for a few minutes, by which time the conversation had moved on. So this, like the ads, made me wonder somewhat at the "normalization" of hiv in the gay community, though of course I could be wrong.

My experience with the guy I'm dating-not-dating is one of condoms. We got into having sex and there were condoms there and..... No discussion of, Hey, are you on PrEP? Or, are you poz? It seemed almost old-skool.

[Jim Allen]

We got into having sex and there were condoms there and..... No discussion of, Hey, are you on PrEP? Or, are you poz? It seemed almost old-skool.

TBH asking if someone is on PrEP or POZ is a bit of an irrelevant question for a hookup or FWB situation. You might as well ask about STIs and expect an honest or correct answer  .. The point is that nothing claimed means anything, if they are worried, they are better off spending that energy practising safer sex (Using Condoms, taking PrEP themselves, DoxyPrEP, getting vaccinated against HPV & Hepatitis).

Yeah, Jim, hard to say whether attitudes have changed much. But where I live, there are billboards with smiling, very healthy-looking men, claiming "Biktarvy is nirvana! Call your doctor!" Well, not exactly that, but you know what I mean. So I wonder if this advertising in some inadvertent way establishes a new norm in which, hey, poz people aren't so bad after all!

I think I've shared this before, about PrEP. I had one of my sporting teams over for a get-together. Toward the end, there were four of us left, and the talk drifted into PrEP, can't recall why, with each of the three guys in turn stating that they were on PrEP and how it was going etc etc. Before the conversation might subtly turn to my confession, I, playing the good host, picked up a few plates and went to the kitchen for a few minutes, by which time the conversation had moved on. So this, like the ads, made me wonder somewhat at the "normalization" of hiv in the gay community, though of course I could be wrong.

Well, I can't speak to your area, at least here studies indicate it's not changed or only minute.* and my experince is the same. Hence I get to torture people in public with it and with U=U its given me so many new ways to upset the ignorant.  Not sure about where you are, but prehaps things are better ... Talk to the guy & find out  Good luck.

We have had PrEP, stigma and U=U advertisements, programs and outreaches. Not the advertisements for the drugs themselves. I do think generally people understand it's not the death sentence as it once was and that touching, toilet seats etc, is not an HIV risk but that's about it.

*
Measuring HIV-related stigma in healthcare settings
https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=76570.msg785554#msg785554

Public attitudes toward HIV stuck in 1980s
https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=77336.msg

Discrimination against PLHIV as big an issue as ever - EU
https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=76570.msg

[Jim Allen]

Anyhow, so getting back to your original post about the situation with the guy.

I feel stupid now.

it's evident that this isn't enough for me

I hope you no longer feel stupid about the situation and that you do find a relationship, be it with him or someone else that's loving & fulfilling. 

Take care.

[Tonny2]

Anyhow, so getting back to your original post about the situation with the guy.

I hope you no longer feel stupid about the situation and that you do find a relationship, be it with him or someone else that's loving & fulfilling. 

Take care.

[CalvinC]

Thanks Jim.

Update: I thought that I should maybe just forget about who-will-contact-whom-next and just do it. So I sent a brief text around 11 tonight, how was your weekend? and he responded in kind; and I said, in an offhand way, that I had, amongst doing other things this weekend, thought of him, and he responded that he thought that that was sweet, and  then I asked what he did on the weekend and . . .  no response, like the line went dead.

He might be on a phone call, who knows, right? But as I've mentioned, this has happened before, a couple of times, and it's an old familiar pattern I know well from other events and people in my life (that I won't bore y'all with). At the end of the day, this isn't making me happy, no matter (as Jim said earlier) that we perhaps have different expectations. I've never honestly been confused in this way, though, ever, and that only makes me feel even lousier. I've got some pain to work through, and I guess it's time to go there now. It's hard.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share and being a sounding board. (I don't see my regular therapist until Thursday, haha!)

Cal

[numbersguy82]

Anyway, thanks for letting me share and being a sounding board. (I don't see my regular therapist until Thursday, haha!)

I see a therapist every other week, and still need my dose of Jim wisdom, aka hard truths, during our peer support sessions. You should join sometime. If nothing else you might make a friend… or three.

[CalvinC]

"Jim Wisdom"... should be TM, haha! I didn't know about this peer support session on Fridays. Will PM.