Author Topic: Ugh. I hate this part... (Read 5883 times)

lydgate · « **on:** January 05, 2007, 11:49:20 am »

So last night I'm having martinis at my favorite bar. There's a cute waiter there with whom I've had a mild flirtation for months. Last night, I was the last customer left and the bartender, C. (the waiter) and I were doing shots and generally kidding around.

Things got pretty cosy. C. grabbed me, we hugged, he put his hands down my pants.

We exchanged numbers (finally). But in a conversation about general sluttiness he said, "Dude, I hope you get tested." I said, "Of course I do" instead of saying "Yes, and I'm HIV positive."

I like this guy. He's smart, he's cute, he's... sassy. But we're going to talk on the phone eventually, sober, and hopefully go on a date and make out. And I'm going to have to do the disclosre thing. I HATE this part. I guess it's a fear of rejection, of suddenly being thought unsexy and an epidemic-spreader. But also, vaguely, the whole awkwardness of The Conversation, again. (In online hookups, my profile says I'm poz, so that's taken care of.)

Ugh. Ugh ugh. I hate this part. It probably gets easier with time but it hasn't for me, yet.

Jay

bear60 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:54:11 am »

Jay....
I guess you are assuming HE is negative. I think everyone here has at one time or other said: treat everyone as if they are HIV positive.
So...just because he asked you if you get tested does NOT mean he's negative. Nor should you assume he is negative.

texasguy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:58:39 am »

"hand down pants" .... ah, I do so miss those days. Hasn't happened in a while <sigh>.

skipmco · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:59:13 am »

Hi Jay,
I read your post and have really felt the frustration you've had. I guess the way I've battled it is to do one of two things...choose not to even flirt anymore or when it does happen I face it head on and tell the person if I have any desire for it to go any further. My experience (in the year I've been in this boat) is to realize that I would rather get shot down at the start and the rejection is less harsh. The alternative is to spend time investing in the relationship only to find out that they FREAK out badly when you tell them.

The fact of it all is you have have to find your own comfort zone. There is still nothing wrong with harmless flirting and walking away from it all without telling the person. But my own opinion is if you want to go back for more you should just fess up before being put in a spot that you wish you did.

$:-\$
Scott

bear60 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:01:54 pm »

Jay
How about you start by making a list of sexual practices that you consider to be safe.....I'll bet you can find something to keep you both happy!!!!

lydgate · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:10:24 pm »

Quote from: bear60 on January 05, 2007, 12:01:54 pm

Jay
How about you start by making a list of sexual practices that you consider to be safe.....I'll bet you can find something to keep you both happy!!!!

Kissing and cuddling. I love that. Love love love that. And I feel comfortable doing that without The Conversation. But it is so hard (pun intended) to stop at that.

Of course there are other sexual practices I consider/know to be safe. But I guess I'm hoping to avoid -- I'm such a jerk -- the disclosure conversation. It really isn't easy for me. Hence, online profile and online casual sex. I have to grow up a bit methinks.

marco23 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:29:30 pm »

No, you don't have growing up to do...you're out there and taking a chance, enjoy the moment especially the hands down the pants part. There's obviously attraction between the two of you, have fun with the flirting and only disclose your status when you feel comfortable enough with him to share that info. Just go with the flow...

pozguy75 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:42:31 pm »

I know how you feel...cause when I meet a guy I really like...it's sometimes difficult to disclose. But I find that when I disclose at the start of the "date" when we are both sober...it is much easier to take the reaction and move on. But, I tend to be pretty open about my status...and those guys that turn me down...well their problem, not mine. As long as they don't personal about it, I am good...

But, I certainly understand the aprehension...good luck!

Queen Tokelove · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2007, 01:03:14 pm »

Wow,lyn, I know how you feel about disclosure. Disclosure has brought about a lot of rejection when I tried to be open about it all. I hope you have a better outcome than I did.

poet · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2007, 06:41:52 am »

Hey Jay. I don't think that it ever gets easier... and I have been dealing with it for over two decades. It is still awkward as hell and, given the 'naturalness' you describe which we all can picture (thank you

of the kidding around (relaxing with each other from the customer/staff balance) the cosy, rosy feeling, HIS grabbing you which is what you (and WE) want to have happen and HIS putting HIS hands down your pants (we are all with you on this trip) and, I would imagine, a typical gay conversation about sluttiness as not being a bad thing at all: men are pigs.

And there is no way to get hiv/aids into the picture without shattering the peace and calm. It's stone cold sober and real and that needed shift, from the one to the other, is what never gets easier (at least for me).

I can offer that you could hold things right there and not take things to the next step, thus avoiding disclosure at some point. I imagine that in your sluttiness conversation it was clear that C was single and used to fooling around? So it's the guy that you chose to let go away unexplored further.

I can also hope that online contacts get better for you so though while it's flattering and fun when it happens at your bar, you have others occupying your time.

Best, Win

stevevaboy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2007, 11:37:46 am »

Boy I can relate to this one! I've known about my status for about 2 years now, and it doesn't seem to get any easier to disclose. Initially, I'd been good about telling guys at the first meeting. Then as I got more used to my status, and comfortable with it, it was almost like it just slipped my mind to say anything about it - I never did anything risky mind you. I think in fairness a guy should know right away even if we're just going to kiss-n-cuddle because that behavior is risky to the heart and he should know certain things about the one he might start "falling for" VERY early on.

I just recently met 2 guys on 2 separate occassions and don't you know that damn cat had my tongue!?! I went so far as to have sex and sleep overnight with them without saying anything (again, nothing risky happened), but DAMN IT I know better!! Now I'm left in an aweful situation where I have to explain to them my status and why I didn't say anything right away... what can I say??? "Ooops, I forgot!" YEAH RIGHT! This has happened before and I swear I won't let it happen again, but here we go again. I'm guilty and feel bad about it, but that desire for closeness and fear of rejection is very powerful.

If I don't hear from them again before disclosure I won't go out of my way to tell them since we really didn't do anything risky, but I certainly know I should have told them. In many ways it might be better if I just let them go and move forward - but isn't that just a cop-out by not forcing me to tell them? I think so, but it sure would be easier...ughhh.

I'm ALWAYS going to hate this part!

Steve

Boo Radley · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2007, 01:41:37 pm »

Jay,

This is, of course, only my opinion but the good news is disclosing becomes easier. The not-so-good news is disclosing still scares off guys but the emotional letdown of rejection decreases over time. I hope this guy has enough on the ball to deal with you as you are but if he doesn't it's his loss, not yours. Easy for me to say but it's true. Before entering the convent I'd gotten to the point it was no big deal if a guy ran when I disclosed because there was almost always someone else later who wouldn't run.

My perspective is an historical one so I hope gay men (and everyone) have generally become more used to the realities of dating in the 21st century but again, those who can't deal with a poz status usually aren't worth wasting time trying to educate. It's 2007, for chrissake.

Best of luck with your hands-in-your-pants friend!

Boo

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2007, 01:50:47 pm »

Yeah, if you live in a city with a substantial HIV population like I do chances are it's not the other guy's first day at the rodeo. If he's negative he's probably encountered this scenario of disclosure by someone else previously. I guess it depends on what age range you're chasing cock in.

poet · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2007, 04:55:55 pm »

Steve, I think you have your answer as well. Ok, you didn't bring the subject up in words, but you used your knowledge of your status and you made sure that whatever you and your partners did was (absolutely) safe. Fine. No guilt needed, ok? No means by which the virus could have been transmitted. And if you never hear from either one again, you did as much as your partners did, right?

Let's pull it out a bit more?

How many guys you meet discuss their cancer diagnosis before an encounter? Or mental illness in their family? Or their arrest record? Their drug addiction? Diabetes? Probably no one. Only hiv seems to be required up front. And if you can disclose up front each and every time, that's great. If you can't, do the next best thing of playing safe ONLY. Agree in 2007 that if you choose to defer disclosure, you also choose to refrain from borderline activity and will keep a clear mind (drug and as much as possible alcohol) free so that you can keep to this border. Win

aupointillimite · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2007, 07:21:01 pm »

Quote from: lydgate on January 05, 2007, 11:49:20 am

"Dude, I hope you get tested."

Back in my neggie days, I wouldn't have ever said something like this to someone.

Now that I'm poz... I say it a lot.

Just a thought.

RobT · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2007, 01:18:53 am »

Jay-
I really wish I knew how difficult the disclosure phase is. I have only heard about it, never have experienced it 1st hand during a romantic encounter. I guess I did do the disclosure episode when I told my bf of my test result. My bf and I have been an item a little over a yr when I got tested, so we developed a relationship during that time. When I told him my result, he claimed that it wud not ruin our relationship. I had him get tested, which thanfully came back neg.
We have now been together for a little over 2 yrs and he proposed to me a mnth b4 I got tested.
I understand that the disclosure portion can b stressful, but if both of u have feelings for eachother, I wud disclose my status. It is much better for the other guy to know previously than any such "surprise".
It has taken a lot of courage on ur part to change ur HIV status on ur online profiles. I discontinued 1 of my profiles and I have changed my status to whatever the site's in between status is. I think it was something like I do not want to discuss, or something slong those lines. I never have responded or used my profiles since I obtained them.
I hope that ur disclosure issue does not ruin ur blossoming relationship w/ this guy. I still think that it wud b easier on both of ur guy's parts to remain truthful during ur new encounter.
I wish that I cud have been more supportive, but best of luck!

RobT

lydgate · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2007, 11:06:39 am »

Well, here's an update. Last night, flirted some more, whispered how crazy the bartender was and how he needed Ritalin. (Note: whispering is SEXY!) And after closing time C. and I walk home.

It was nice.

He mocked me for my wretchedly messy apartment.

What did we do? Kissed a lot. I did a little bit of, um, licking etc. He loved being rimmed, yay. And then we fell asleep.

Did not do The Conversation. Surprisingly, I'm not berating myself for that.

The thought of actually dating him seems incredibly fatiguing this morning. He's so young (25? 26?) and pretty, it would be too much work.

Jay

Life · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2007, 11:17:34 am »

Jay - I always dated older guys, I was always trying to keep up with them!

Your bedroom life sounds like it is licking in the right direction...

Love

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2007, 03:45:08 am »

For some reason I've only dated guys my own age. Well, except for the one eons ago that was a decade younger than me... like 17 (OK... he LIED to me about his age, but he turned 18 two months later). Never pick up boys in Macy's elevators... that's a rule.

Oh, and then there was the Sugar Daddy. I could have EASILY been set up good, but after the incredibly expensive dinner I had him take me on we ended up at the notorious Times Square (pre-Disneyfication in the 90's) bar called Cats and I talked Mr. Sugar into coughing up C-notes for two hot puerto rican hustlers, and 8-ball, and some hits of X. We had a nice orgy later on at Sugar's den... fortunately I focused more on the uncut rican dick than the Sugar.

Now tell me... wasn't it crazy that after a night of such debauchery he STILL wanted to marry me? OH THE INSANITY!

poet · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2007, 05:55:42 am »

I'm with you on this one, Philly, having written about Cats and having spent Tuesdays at Stella's for about two months so I could capture what was going on there.

And let's not forget about the pre-Disney Gaiety Burlesk above (and an actual part of) Howard Johnson's across from the Marriott Marquis hotel where, since the dancers had nothing to do between sets on those afternoons, they came out and spent time with you or, if you were as lucky as I was, you could demonstrate your massage skills on them in the back area. Win

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2007, 06:49:04 pm »

omg....!!! A Cats/Stella's compatriot! Did you used to go to Hombre's too? One time the winner of the Big Dick contest offered to buy me a drink and I got so nervous (well... his face looked like a horse but I digress) I declined and ran away. Was never that fond of the Gaiety myself, though I went once or twice and ran into the blond twink who got gang banged in Bjorn's seminal "Manhattan Latin" flick. One of the "tops" in that scene lived a block up from me on the Lower East Side though he thought he was really straight... always whistled at my female roommate who possessed porn tits.

Cats was legendary, but the REAL DEAL was Magic Touch (aka Tragic Touch) out in Queens. Oh the stories... adored the VIP lounge in the basement with the aluminum wall tiles and the plastic lawn furniture. The strippers there were to die for... fresh off the street from dealing drugs up in the South Bronx and looking for extra coin. Will LeMay (model) got his start there! He's still about the most beautiful man I've ever met.

Eldon · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2007, 08:09:33 pm »

The contents were being examined. Good luck with your new friend!

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Author Topic: Ugh. I hate this part... (Read 5883 times)