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Off Topic Forums => Forums Gatherings => Topic started by: tigger2376 on September 12, 2007, 08:58:10 pm

Title: Next year in Europe!
Post by: tigger2376 on September 12, 2007, 08:58:10 pm
Definately think next one should be in europe! In the meantime, if I start researching places to stay etc how about a mini UK gathering in Feb next year? Or anytime else? Am prepared to put the time in if people are up for it!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 13, 2007, 06:16:40 am
Hi Tigger,

I'm definitely interested, but I'm not so sure about February though - my finances are usually still struggling at that time of year after the holidays.

But yeah, I'm definitely interested!

Ann
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Jody on September 13, 2007, 07:54:03 am
Eurpoe sounds great next year...Maybe Springtime in Amsterdam, London would be cool or Spain???

Anyway I am off to San Fran in about half hour...Take care.

Jody  :)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Cerrid on September 13, 2007, 11:22:55 am
Yay! Let's Go Europe! ;D

Not in February though (too dark and too chilly, unless we meet in Gran Canaria).  ;)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: scud44 on September 14, 2007, 06:56:03 pm
Can we have a Mini-Meet in Australia some time soon?

regards
Scuddles
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: alberche on September 14, 2007, 07:48:56 pm
That would be great to meet!!!

I am in Spain, so let me know whether you come or not, I could just jump to UK or wherever, or if you decide to come to Spain I could help you organizing it ;-)

Hughs!!!

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 14, 2007, 09:48:39 pm
I have airline mileage I could use -- in fact I think I'm going to France in the Spring.

dollar is SOOOOOO weak though

We need an East Coast AMG!!!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on September 14, 2007, 11:25:10 pm
I echo Philly....and LOUDLY. 

WE NEED AN EAST COAST AMG!

 ;D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 14, 2007, 11:33:43 pm
YES AND IN PHILADELPHIA!!!

easy day trips to NYC from here... and not as expensive
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: northernguy on September 14, 2007, 11:53:20 pm
I would agree with Europe.  Haven't the last three been in North America?  There are cheap charter flights from Canada, wouldn't there be from the USA as well?
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on September 15, 2007, 12:06:13 am
East Coast!.....AMG!......East Coast!......AMG!

~Cindy
(who got "Most School Spirit" in HS)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Moffie65 on September 15, 2007, 08:03:27 am
AMG 05 was held in Toronto, which is in very close proximity to the EAST Coast.
AMG 06 was held in Montreal, which is in very close proximity to the EAST Coast.
AMG 07 is in San Francisco which is in very close proximity to the EAST Coast for those living in Europe, Austrailia, New Zeland, Africa, Asia and any other part of the world.

I would suggest that an AMG in Europe is probably about time!

Love,
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 15, 2007, 10:49:34 am
You *DO* realize how expensive Europe is right now don't you?  The exchange rate is atrocious.

Let's do Puerto Rico!!!  I'd even love Mexico City.

Anyway, most of the board members are in the US... so logic dictates that's where it's often going to be.  London and Paris are simply out of the question.

I could be convinced to do the south of France however... I'm always about Antibes -- it's in my blood.

Corsica could be cute... and off the beaten path.  Pricey I'm sure though... all the Sardinia crew has decamped. 

How about Split in Dalmatia? :)  We can party at Diocletian's Palace!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: carousel on September 17, 2007, 05:55:23 am
You *DO* realize how expensive Europe is right now don't you? 


Yep, I live here  :), like a sizeable minority of those who come to this site.


A European gathering sounds great.  It's been done before, on a smaller scale than the AMG and ran at a different time than the larger North American gathering.  Can't see why it can't happen again, everybody invited. 

February might be a bit cold in London, or then again we might have a heatwave knowing our weather.

Madrid maybe? if it was Feb.

Jo, thanks for suggesting this and for offering to help set it up.  If you need any help, let me know.

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: scud44 on September 17, 2007, 06:18:12 am
Come down to Australia - February is great in Feb or March - Sydney or Melbourne - Matty can be the doorman and keep out the riff raff!


Aussie - Aussie - Aussie - OI OI OI !!!!!!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 17, 2007, 08:02:13 am
Maybe we should start having two AMG's -- ones in Europe and ones in North America.  These gatherings are getting larger each year and otherwise will quickly become unwieldy.  Also, many of us are on disability/fixed incomes and can't easily go overseas.

Australia is too far away for any person to visit, EVER.  I'd need 120 mg of klonopin just for that long ass plane trip, PLUS it would need to at least be in business class.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mrtallguy on September 17, 2007, 11:35:35 am
The GREAT news is, of course, that we have SO many options....and since this years SFO event approached 50 people....PHILLY your idea of 2 events is a very good idea.....I rarely saw many people due to the size of this group in SFO.  OR perhaps an east coast event....west coast event, and European event!!

Think BIG  ( i always do!!  ;) )

From super fun SFO!!

Craig
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: DCGUY2007 on September 17, 2007, 11:44:11 am
Europe sounds great. I willl be there again next July. I vote for Madrid too. That is one place I haven't been and in February weather should be ok. Than again Philadelphia is nice too. Two gatherings also sound great. As soon as I rob a bank all of it sounds great :-)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: tigger2376 on September 17, 2007, 08:19:55 pm
Glad I've got some interest! spains a great idea but will need a spanish speaker/international/experienced person to help me out there! Only suggested london (yes I know hideously expensive but sure we can accomodate most people amongst members) because all my contacts are here, but evidently there MAY be an opportunity on the Isle of Man for a venue. OK, our weather is horrid so maybe Spain a good option but I know a lot of people in uk would just like it to be here. A 'split' AMG...two veues may work BUT even with specialist insurance if you are on meds its a risk coming to US wheras UK completely fine...not being biased, just factual
Re weather, what about JUNE 2008 wherever? Vote please!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on September 18, 2007, 12:51:17 am
Barcelona or Caracas :D

Milker (who would wear a pink Boa)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 18, 2007, 12:59:02 am
Oh, I may be in Caracas in March actually on the way to Los Roques archipelago.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: carousel on September 18, 2007, 09:29:22 am
I thought Madrid might be more comfortable if it was early in the year with the weather.

I agree that London is more obvious in terms of numbers and having possible places for people to stay, which will be less expensive for those who can't afford hotels.

It would be of course be easier for me, I live here.

I was wondering if this thread should be moved or linked to the off topic forum.  It might get more responses.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 18, 2007, 10:34:50 am
I could stay at my ex-partner's flat in London... well, if we were still talking :(

asshole
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dachshund on September 18, 2007, 10:40:15 am
As long as we are able to accommodate all of Philly's needs everything should be fine. ;D

I think London would be a fab choice for the next AMG. I've been there several times and believe you me I was able to do it on the cheap. Either London or Amsterdam...dear God what am I thinking?
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 18, 2007, 10:44:38 am
As long as we are able to accommodate all of Philly's needs everything should be fine. ;D


Thanks for being the loving, caring and supportive individual that I know you are.

~air kisses~

I *do* love London, and in fact almost moved there six years ago.  For love, naturally... though I'm the furthest thing from a hopeless romantic that there is.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 18, 2007, 01:57:13 pm
I have one question is there any nationality that philly has not experienced?

Just had to ask..... :)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: comino on September 18, 2007, 02:11:04 pm
AMSTERDAM AMSTERDAM AMSTERDAM AMSTERDAM AMSTERDAM AMSTERDAM !   
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 18, 2007, 02:17:20 pm
I have one question is there any nationality that philly has not experienced?

Just had to ask..... :)

When you live in NYC as long as I did you're just bound to plant your seed all over the world without even leaving city limits... there's just so many people from all over living there.  I even scored someone from the Seychelles.   He was quite memorable too -- met him at a club and in the cab on the way to his apartment the only thing he said to me, in a really sleazy accent, was "So do you like big uncut dicks?"

And it was... he also urinated all over me twice. 

Amusingly he worked at the UN.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: alberche on September 19, 2007, 04:07:29 pm
Amsterdam could be a nice place to meet!!!

Also Lisbon, and Barcelone or Madrid. But better as from march, Madrid is still cold in february, not as much as London but... Lisbon or Barcelone are warmer at that period and they have the seasight!!!!

Prices: London is terribly expensive... Madrid is cheaper and Lisbon is simply one of the best price/quality cities in Europe regarding food, hosting and transportation.

I also would love to go to a meeting in the US... but I'am afraid we all living out of the US would have some problems to be let inside the States being poz...

Hugs from Madrid :-)


Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: newt on September 19, 2007, 07:19:16 pm
Do you know how UNCIVIL flying iinto London airports (which are not anyhow in London) is these days...go to the mainland
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 19, 2007, 07:24:06 pm
I had a horrendous experience at CDG last year.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 19, 2007, 07:44:00 pm
Amsterdamnit!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: tigger2376 on September 19, 2007, 09:47:01 pm
Right...someone will have to teach me how to put one of those 'poll'/vote type things on this thread. Then we'll see where to go from here. its a relatively short space of time so please bear in mind practicalities, and let me know what kind of activities (philly....no!  :D) you would like provided, how structured you want things...whatever!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 19, 2007, 10:02:51 pm
Amsterdam works for me because they make the very best poppers in the world there.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mrtallguy on September 19, 2007, 10:10:49 pm
Amsterdamnit!

Ann I'm with you on that one!!

Barcelona or Caracas :D

Milker (who would wear a pink Boa)

Milker:  hopefully that is ALL you would wear!!  :o

Craig (who starts to WOOF when he thinks of Milker)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 20, 2007, 06:54:57 am
Hey Philly,

Once you pop, you just can't stop, eh?

Ann
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 20, 2007, 08:53:21 am
Right...someone will have to teach me how to put one of those 'poll'/vote type things on this thread. Then we'll see where to go from here. its a relatively short space of time so please bear in mind practicalities, and let me know what kind of activities (philly....no!  :D) you would like provided, how structured you want things...whatever!

I think a poll is a very good idea. After reading the great posts from this year's AMG I definitely want to attend the next one.   And while Europe would be a great location for next year's AMG, I do think you should put the US as an option, since as was said earlier in a post the bulk of members and of this years attendees were from the states.  Of course is this was like a midyear gathering in Europe, I am in need of some outstanding poppers and think philly is on to something.

Thanks,
Woods
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 20, 2007, 10:10:02 am
Before we start a poll on this subject, I think it's worth clarifying if we are talking about a REGIONAL Gathering, or the annual AMG.

As the original post in this thread can no longer be modified, a poll cannot be added to this thread, so a new thread would have to be started for a poll. But as I say, it would be helpful if we first established whether we are talking regional or annual.

Ann
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 20, 2007, 10:21:34 am
Before we start a poll on this subject, I think it's worth clarifying if we are talking about a REGIONAL Gathering, or the annual AMG.

As the original post in this thread can no longer be modified, a poll cannot be added to this thread, so a new thread would have to be started for a poll. But as I say, it would be helpful if we first established whether we are talking regional or annual.

Ann


Excellent point and idea.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 20, 2007, 11:10:04 am
Of course is this was like a midyear gathering in Europe, I am in need of some outstanding poppers and think philly is on to something.

Thanks,
Woods


Indeed!

(and yes Ann, once you pop you can't stop)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 20, 2007, 11:12:25 am
Before we start a poll on this subject, I think it's worth clarifying if we are talking about a REGIONAL Gathering, or the annual AMG.

As the original post in this thread can no longer be modified, a poll cannot be added to this thread, so a new thread would have to be started for a poll. But as I say, it would be helpful if we first established whether we are talking regional or annual.

Ann


Why don't we first take a poll asking if AMG should be held as two yearly events, one in North America (frankly we all know the bulk of members are from here, or that's what I assume -- do you have stats on this accessible Miss Ann?) and one elsewhere outside of North America, which we can assume will be continental Europe for now. 

Then once that poll is complete depending on the result we can start one on a location, or two locations. (?)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 20, 2007, 11:25:41 am
Philly,

Why don't we first take a poll asking if AMG should be held as two yearly events, one in North America (frankly we all know the bulk of members are from here, or that's what I assume -- do you have stats on this accessible Miss Ann?) and one elsewhere outside of North America, which we can assume will be continental Europe for now. 

Then once that poll is complete depending on the result we can start one on a location, or two locations. (?)

I'll speak to Peter about the stats.

I think the question of how to handle North America vs Elsewhere is a good idea for a first poll. How would people like one to be set up? What questions, whether to allow vote changes, that sort of thing.

Ideas on a post-card, please. ;)

Ann
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 20, 2007, 12:12:52 pm

Ideas on a post-card, please. ;)


I am a computer dummy, what is a post-card and how do i send one.... :-\
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 20, 2007, 12:15:00 pm
Um, you know, a post-card. Like a post? A reply? ;D ;)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: allanq on September 20, 2007, 12:20:24 pm
For those living in the U.S., a crucial question concerning an AMG in Europe would be the cost.

Before doing a poll, I think it would be a good idea to get some rough estimates on the cost for transportation and accommodations in various European locations.

From the west coast of the U.S., the cheapest flights to Europe are to London, and those currently cost around $1,000 round trip. The dollar is at an all-time low against the euro and the pound, and that will also have a strong impact on American attendees. The last time I was in Europe (London & Rome) was 2004, and prices then were astronomical, especially in London. With the decline of the dollar, I'm sure it's much worse now.

Don't get me wrong--I would love to have an AMG in Amsterdam, London, Lisbon, or in any other European city. It's just that I don't know how we can get around the fact that it would be prohibitively expensive for a majority of Americans.

AllanQ
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 20, 2007, 12:29:06 pm
Hi Alan,

My take on what Philly was saying is - can we discuss whether alternatiing years would be an idea. Going to North America is prohibitive for the majority of our European members - and we do have a sizeable amount of Europeans attending Gatherings. Australia/New Zealand are considerations for coming years as well.

Perhaps that's the bones of the first poll - do we alternate other global locations with North America, with NA hosting every other year?

Ann
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on September 20, 2007, 12:32:31 pm
One thing is sure, there won't be enough space on Ann's rock for everyone to fit ! Wherever this happens, it has to be big!

Milker.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 20, 2007, 12:34:47 pm
Indeed.  It's quite likely that if it's in Europe next year I will not attend, but in fairness the past 3 have been in North America.  If I lived in Europe and posted here I'd be rather peeved personally.

There is nothing written in stone that someone needs to attend annually, though I know many here desire to do so. 
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on September 20, 2007, 01:32:57 pm
Europe or North America alternates: Cool!  I've never been to Europe and it sounds tempting, indeed. Wouldn't go it alone but an AMG group gathering is great vibe. Exceptional, in fact.

One cost-saving strategy: roomshares of 4 or 6. No hostels (for me). Some can do well with 'em but too public for me.

When I was planning a trip to Nice, France, I looked into renting a one room apartment for a week. As a lone renter, it wasn't so much of an accommodations savings except that I had a kitchenette for preparing meals. (That's substantial savings in itself.) Nevertheless, there were apartments large enough to sleep six. Foursomes are more manageable, IMO. The individual rates for 4 people was at or slightly less than what we paid in SF at the Powell.
A deposit was required, of course. Likely, the exchange rate has increased the overall costs since it's been a couple of years since I priced the trip. But how bad could it be splitting roomshare 4 ways?

Mike

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 20, 2007, 01:36:35 pm
I think the alternating idea is probably the most fair or just do 2 a year approx 6 mths apart, one in US and one in Europe.  Those fortuante enough could do both or just one.  If it did go to Europe once every other year, maybe the year it is in Europe, those of us in the states could organize gatherings throughout the states, like east, west, north and south.  One doesn't want to get fragmented with gatherings everywhere, but at the same time, I would hate to have to wait 2 more years till one was held that I could afford to attend.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: 404error on September 20, 2007, 01:48:34 pm
Amsterdam would be amazing!  It's relatively cheap to fly there, it's cheaper to convert to the Euro than it is to the Pound, the city is beautiful, well laid out and there is a lot to do...  With the Canadian dollar as high as it's ever been in my lifetime, now would be a great time to travel abroad.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: BassMan on September 20, 2007, 01:53:43 pm
Count me in for a European gathering. AMG's in the US are pretty much out of the question for me because of the expense of travelling there - not to mention the slight issue of the travel ban. Having a US and European gathering each year sounds like a good idea; at least we all get to attend one without having to travel too far.

Any major city's good for me; London, Madrid, Amsterdam, but did I hear a little voice suggest Gran Canaria???  ;D Such wickedness! Great for the gay boys, but not much doing for the straight guys and gals!

Carl,
Manchester, UK
(who's off to the hedonistic island on Monday for 2 weeks!  8) )

PS: I've made room in my case, Ann  ;D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 20, 2007, 02:15:10 pm
One question; What about the Grants Committee? Can we realistically expect to raise two lots of grant monies per year?




Carl - Ta! I'll swim right over. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 20, 2007, 02:46:38 pm
One question; What about the Grants Committee? Can we realistically expect to raise two lots of grant monies per year?


I am not familiar with how the grants are used but it could be done as a separate grant per location. Or all contributions are put in one pool everyone that wants to apply does so and the money is allocated for the member to use on whichever gathering he or she would attend.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: manchesteruk on September 20, 2007, 02:48:07 pm
Just my personal opinion this but because of the amount of people who wouldn't be able to attend if the gathering was in Europe and the weakness of the Dollar against Sterling and Euro at the moment I think the main gathering should be in North America again.  I'd still definitely be interested in a Euro gathering but I think it should be a regional one with anyone else able to afford it come along as well.

Chris
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 20, 2007, 03:01:16 pm
This is an all volunteer organized function is that correct?  Do any financial resources or in-kind contributions come from POZ or AidsMeds?  If not, why couldn't there be 2 gatherings a year, the Euro AMG and the NA AMG.  Each could be held approx 6 months apart.  Members could attend one or both.  I would think  either location would involve different volunteers organizing and a grant committee could be organized for each.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Cliff on September 20, 2007, 03:58:40 pm
The grants are funded by forum members.  AM/Poz are not involved in AMG. 
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: David_CA on September 20, 2007, 04:14:16 pm
While I think it would be nice to have an AMG in Europe, I don't think it should replace the one in the US.  It's not funded by A-M, POZ®, or any other entity.  What funds an AMG are 1) individuals paying their own way  2) members covering costs for another member and 3) donations from individuals that assist people to attend.  There is no 'governing body' over the AMG's.  I think, perhaps, somebody who attended the first AMG could give a bit more insight as to how it originated and how informal an AMG is.  There's nothing keeping our European members from organizing an AMG to be held in Europe.  In fact, it would be great.  I seriously doubt if the 40+ members from the US would be able to attend.  My suggestion would be to start a post inquiring who's interested in a European AMG.  Take suggestions as to location.  Vote on the location.  Vote on a date.  Find people who are willing to be your 'Dennis', Allan, Jan, Rocky, and many others.  Set up a Grants Committee (if you want to go this route).  In other words, have an AMG.  I'm sure that some from over here will attend.  If there's a Grants Committee, more will be able to attend.  Basically, start planning an AMG to be held in Europe! 

David   (who'd love to go to the UK but doesn't see it happening anytime soon.  Sponsors, anyone?   ;) )
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: cmhjeff on September 20, 2007, 04:22:20 pm
If a Europe AMG would include a stop to the London Eye then I might consider it. A ride on the Eye is something on my before I die list. So I have many years left still to check that off the list.  :)



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: woodshere on September 20, 2007, 05:08:43 pm
While I think it would be nice to have an AMG in Europe, I don't think it should replace the one in the US.  It's not funded by A-M, POZ®, or any other entity.  What funds an AMG are 1) individuals paying their own way  2) members covering costs for another member and 3) donations from individuals that assist people to attend.  There is no 'governing body' over the AMG's.  I think, perhaps, somebody who attended the first AMG could give a bit more insight as to how it originated and how informal an AMG is.  There's nothing keeping our European members from organizing an AMG to be held in Europe.  In fact, it would be great.  I seriously doubt if the 40+ members from the US would be able to attend.  My suggestion would be to start a post inquiring who's interested in a European AMG.  Take suggestions as to location.  Vote on the location.  Vote on a date.  Find people who are willing to be your 'Dennis', Allan, Jan, Rocky, and many others.  Set up a Grants Committee (if you want to go this route).  In other words, have an AMG.  I'm sure that some from over here will attend.  If there's a Grants Committee, more will be able to attend.  Basically, start planning an AMG to be held in Europe! 

David   (who'd love to go to the UK but doesn't see it happening anytime soon.  Sponsors, anyone?   ;) )

I think that is pretty much the way to go.  Then we would have double the opportunity to meet great folks from all over the world.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 20, 2007, 05:24:34 pm
I'd like to propose that the next AMG be held in Santo Domingo, for personal reasons of course.

Thanks
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dennis on September 20, 2007, 06:03:13 pm
What I would like to suggest is everyone who is interested in attending an AMG please fill out the survey which can be found here...

http://www.createsurvey.com/c/57248-aN7w5j/ (http://www.createsurvey.com/c/57248-aN7w5j/)

The survey will be open for the next 29 days and will give the coordinators an idea of the cost people are willing to spend, where they'd like to see AMG held, as well as where they are traveling from.  Thus far everyone who has participated has stated they would attend an AMG in the America's despite the ban.

What I think would be extremely doable is a Europe AMG every two years.  There are lots of dynamics that occur in the background prior to this event that makes an event of this magnitude a success.  Perhaps a Europe AMG in 2009?

Let's not forget there are many destinations outside of North America and Europe.  How about South America, the Caribbean, and I would still like to see an AMG held on a cruise.

I'm absolutely thrilled there is so much excitement being generated over next years gathering so soon!!

Peace,
Dennis
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: fearless on September 20, 2007, 07:55:40 pm
I tend to agree that while Europe is a great idea it would be prohibitively expensive for so many people and therefore should not replace a north american AMG. It could work, however, as an open invitation regional meet or perhaps as a one off every now and then, but not every second year.

Similarly, while I'd love for all of you to come to Aus or NZ both the cost and distance would be limiting factors and I would not recommend it. 15 hours from LA and 22 from the UK (add another 3 1/2 to get to NZ). I don't know how Jan does it, but I would not recommend the trip to anyone for a short visit. It is an absolutely torturous journey and it would really only be worth your while if you spent a significant amount of time here, but that will add to the expense.

The LA/Sydney/Auckland route is also one of the most expensive in the world due to a lack of competition - I think a return airfare from the US is in the order of $2,000 US.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 20, 2007, 07:59:20 pm
I refuse to be cooped up in a plane for 20 hours to visit a penal colony, frankly.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: fearless on September 20, 2007, 08:45:51 pm
I refuse to be cooped up in a plane for 20 hours to visit a penal colony, frankly.

Hey watch it, that's my family your talking about!!! I thought you had a thing for ex-cons.

Also, you do realise that over 50,000 convicts were transported from England and Ireland to the USA before you got independance, don't you? http://www.eogen.com/Transportation (http://www.eogen.com/Transportation)
All up about 162,000 were transported to Aus. http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/convicts/ (http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/convicts/)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 20, 2007, 09:06:44 pm

Also, you do realise that over 50,000 convicts were transported from England and Ireland to the USA before you got independance, don't you?

Good thing my family originated in New Netherland.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: fearless on September 20, 2007, 11:02:44 pm
I'm the product of a convicted goose smuggler from Bath, and a potato famine orphan from County Galway, mixed in with a bit of a mutineer from the Bounty.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Matty the Damned on September 20, 2007, 11:16:52 pm
I refuse to be cooped up in a plane for 20 hours to visit a penal colony, frankly.

You presume that you'd make it past HM Customs, old man.

MtD
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 20, 2007, 11:21:02 pm
You've been reported to the moderators for your agism.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mrtallguy on September 20, 2007, 11:43:11 pm
I agree with David_NC in that anyone can plan an event anywhere at anytime!  All you need is a Dennis!! It may be a problem finding someone who is as dedicated, driven, and cute as Dennis! So we need one of our European members who will rise to the occasion....I would vote for Amsterdam since it is very accessible which drives down cost.....if we had to pick a US city for 2008 I would vote for Chicago....lots to do in a beautiful city!  Otherwise a cruise would be great as well....

Thanks Dennis for the survey....u just don't stop....that is also very attractive!!  ;)

Be Well....

Craig
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: JohnOso on September 21, 2007, 12:46:57 am
Craig,

we think alike.  i suggested the US Midwest on the survey, with Chicago in mind.

Cruise wouldn't be bad either....the booze bill might be outrageous, seeing how many scary drinkers we had in SF (including me of course).

Hiccup,
John
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: manchesteruk on September 21, 2007, 02:07:40 am
Chicago would definitely get my vote.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: David_CA on September 21, 2007, 08:16:55 am
Chicago would definitely get my vote.

Same here.... times 3
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: cmhjeff on September 21, 2007, 09:04:47 am
Has Niagara Falls ever been cosidered?

http://www.niagarafallslive.com/index.htm

http://www.infoniagara.com/index.html
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 21, 2007, 09:55:45 am
Has Niagara Falls ever been cosidered?


Hopefully not.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Jerry71 on September 21, 2007, 10:50:05 am
Chicago all the way.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on September 21, 2007, 10:51:09 am
Hopefully not.
:D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 21, 2007, 10:53:55 am
:D

Have you been to the American side?  It's a national embarrassment.  And while the Canadian side is at least not a miserable slum it's still a tacky tourist trap.

The falls are beautiful though, but it's sad that development wasn't set way back from them a century ago.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Jerry71 on September 21, 2007, 10:56:40 am
Has Niagara Falls ever been cosidered?

http://www.niagarafallslive.com/index.htm

http://www.infoniagara.com/index.html

This has already been done AMG05
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on September 21, 2007, 03:09:26 pm
Chicago: yes to that location too.
Lived there for 5 years before moving to Ohio. Boystown is an easy-going, safe area.
Well, relatively safe. Avoid any wee hours of the morning solo strolls anywhere in Chicago.
Bars, Baths, Restaurants, Concerts and Nightlife enough for all. Did I mention very gay oriented Halsted St.
Excellent public transport system--easy from O'Hare ("Keep Walking") to all points downtown.
xxx,
Mike
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Nadine on September 22, 2007, 07:58:56 am
Chicago definately gets my vote!  :)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: carousel on September 22, 2007, 09:13:44 am
I just wonder if we should ask members if the idea of a gathering in Europe might be an idea.  It doesn't have to be instead of an American/ Canadian AMG.

There are going to be lots of members who wll not be able to make the journey across the pond, as there are members in Europe who can't make a visit the other way.

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: northernguy on September 23, 2007, 12:03:47 pm
I'll continue to point out that unlike any of the EU countries, the USA still has a ban on HIV travellers entering the country, despite Bush's grandstanding photo-op last World AIDS day:
http://www.gmhc.org/about/releases/061206.html

Try googling to find any change to that policy since last December.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Catman on September 23, 2007, 12:46:52 pm
You *DO* realize how expensive Europe is right now don't you?  The exchange rate is atrocious.
Let's do Puerto Rico!!! 
The Carribean would be great!

  I back this up and can even suggest places to visit and hotels to stay for every budget. We have plenty in the San Juan (Capitol) Condado area, and Philly knows this. Only one gay hotel (Atlantic Beach) but I prefer places like Holiday Inn Express, Marriott Stelaris Hotel & Casino (expensive but great), Radisson Ambassador Plaza, Diamond Palace, Comfort Inn, etc. I'm a budget traveler most of the time. Hotels in Condado are all walking distance from each other and places to eat are everywhere. Sightseeing in Old San Juan is just a buses ride away for 25 cents if you hop on the public bus which stops close to every hotel. Nightlife is mostly in Old San Juan but most hotels in Condado have pubs and bars. For gay dancing Eros (old Crash) or Starz in Santurce (close to Condado). New places have come up but I've been to none. I rarely go to San Juan because I live on the West coast of the island.
  The bad thing is Hurricane season. The critical month is September being the worst on occasions but this year we haven't had a hurricane scare at all. Still, it would make a good gathering place but I do not think we have an AIDS Memorial here. ???
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on September 23, 2007, 12:48:31 pm
I thought this thread was about a gathering in Europe ???
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 23, 2007, 01:26:04 pm
Trust girls!  San Juan would be a HOOT, and there's foreskin in the rainforests!  Lots!  We can make an AIDS memorial in El Yunque.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: alberche on September 23, 2007, 02:54:06 pm
mmm... Chicago sounds nice, yes!!!

But for us in Europe there is the incertitude of entering the US... if we are lucky we could skip the controls for our meds but... who knows!!! with the law in the hands, we cannot enter, so it is a matter of good luck to pass inside...

And that's a pitty!!!! I would like to go!!!

Well, thinking back in Europe... maybe you should think about not the mainstream cities, but other places. Canary Islands (Spain), and Madeira Islands (Portugal) are not expensive places, with a mild climate all the year, magnificent landscapes and very good facilities.

Distance to the US is shorter due to these islands are in the Atlantic ocean, and are mainstream turistical centers, so flights shouldn't be too expensive.

Canaries, in addition, have a very openminded nighlife and are lots of gayfriendly, so gay and hetero colleagues could pass together a good time.

The Canaries have very good healthcare facilities, and a high standard of life with a very good quality transportation network. Landscapes: from pinewood forest and high mountains and volcanos, to black sand beaches, deserts and big modern cities.

I know there are direct flights from New York, Chicago and Miami to the main islands (Tenerife and Gran Canaria).

Maybe it is just a matter of checking for prices of hotels or complete travel packages... Could be a good alternative for any time of the year.

:-)

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on September 23, 2007, 05:01:58 pm
Nice post, alberche. Very informative and a potential option. Are you a mediator by trade?
 :),
Mike
(who goes to AMG 08 wherever)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: englishgirl on September 23, 2007, 11:10:35 pm
here's my thoughts on this matter:

so far as where to go next year, barcelona was my personal suggestion as i think it has something for everyone - culture, food, dancing, beach, gaudi architecture - and is gay friendly, but seeing as so many people have voiced concerns about the expense of getting to europe it appears that we will have to make the trek across the atlantic once again  ;)

which brings me to something i feel very strongly about: i do not believe that we as a collection of positive individuals should be holding a gathering in a country which still prohibits our undocumented entry and reserves the right to prohibit our entry just for being poz.

some who are US citizens have been pretty blase about the fact and say that bush has said he will change it, but he HASNT done so yet. entry into the usa remains a FELONY for pozzies who have not applied in person at an embassy for a visa waiver and had a page of their passport stamped with a huge red 'HIV'. anyone found to be in contravention of the law is prohibited from EVER entering the usa again (ask cowandalehouse if you dont believe it actually happens).

which leaves us with 2 choices: dont come, and miss out on the support that an event such as amg brings, or lie (and commit a felony) and experience abject terror while going through immigration. really good for your stress levels. i would be interested to know whether emma (gemini) would have been so stressed as to cancel her trip to amg if it had been held in a poz-friendly country. i for one had nightmares for days before taking the trip. and it was evident from posts on the forums that some people did not feel safe to come because of the issue of trying to bring in meds, and so missed out on amg.

and for those who have not seen the i95 immigration visa waver form that all foreign entrants have to sign, the question about whether you carry a 'communicable disease' is just before the ones on being a nazi war criminal, having committed genocide, being a terrorist, being a convicted felon, etc etc. that's the company they put us in.

im not a conspiracy theorist but remember it only takes someone to discover that amg is happening - tip off, a former member of the forums with a vengeance, some crazy person with a thing against pozzies, undercover govt investigation to 'set an example' - and from these forums they have many of our names, flight times/dates, and the location in which we are staying.

it is one thing for us each as individuals to decide whether or not we wish to make a private trip to the states to visit a friend or family, but it is quite another to be coming on an organised and relatively public event. it makes us much more vulnerable. i for one was very conscious of that.

so i ask you my fellow pozzies, should this not be a consideration just as much as expense when deciding where to hold amg next year?

if europe is not felt to be a possibility due to expense, then i suggest canada or brazil. beautiful countries, but more importantly, dont forbid our entry or treat us any differently to other human beings.

i would be hugely disappointed if it is decided to hold the next amg in the united states, because it means that no-one actually cares what a risk we foreigners are taking just to come to amg. surely we go through enough just being poz, without having to go through any more just to get to a poz event?

thanks for reading, but a couple of last thoughts: the west coast trip from the uk nearly killed me so please, please can we have east coast/central next time? and please can we have it about the same time of year? i need a year to save up again!

lots of love
xxxx
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Robert on September 23, 2007, 11:52:43 pm
my charming englishgirl....

I agree completely. It just doesn't seem fair to simply pretend to ignore such a malicious piece of thinking that makes others look upon us as used merchandice.  That's why we held the 1st 2 Gatherings in CAnada. (On the East Coast, mind you.)  We wanted the West coast this year and Vancouver was in the running but SF won out. 

I too really missed Emma.  I have a piece of her artwork that I hold dear to my heart hanging outside my bedroom door. I was so looking forward to meeting her.  To think she didn't come just because of some friggin policy just ticks me off.  I don't blame Emma at all.  I don't want that to happen again.  I think we all relate to the levels of stress you felt. 

Now last year, just before our Gathering in Montreal, there  was the International Conference on HIV/AIDS in Toronto.  This allowed Tim HOrn to stop and talk to us SAturday morning.  Also, Andy came and stayed with us for a few days.  Next year, the COnference is in Mexico City.  Maybe we should have a INternational Gathering there?

robert
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: David_CA on September 24, 2007, 10:25:46 am
I was hoping the issue of non-citizens HIV+ individuals entering the US had improved; I'd heard Bush's mentioning it was going to change, but I guess hearing him say something and actually seeing happen it are two different things.  I can really understand that it's an issue for many that aren't citizens here.  Although it may be a felony, I don't think that the majority of Americans would wish it to be so, but again, what we want and what's law are often not the same.  Remember, it wasn't too long ago that it was illegal for two adult men or women to have sex.  It still is in many states, but, surprisingly, the Supreme Court decided those laws were unenforcible (or whatever the actual term is).  I really hate that this  is a problem for anybody wishing to visit.  It may be a 'communicable disease', but that's so '80-ish.  Nobody's going to 'catch' it from us without specific activities taking place.  Certainly we, as a country, have moved beyond that sort of thinking.  I really hope that it will change soon.  Until then, englishgirl, please make your concerns known when we actually start to suggest time and location for the next AMG.  If we're lucky, it won't be an issue (maybe W will keep his word by then  :-\ ).  Take care.

David
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: allanq on September 24, 2007, 01:20:08 pm
Like David, I do remember hearing that the policy restricting entry for HIV+ non-citizens was being changed, or at least that it was no longer going to be enforced.

I did not realize that nothing has really changed and that visitors to the U.S. are still being humiliated by the questions on those entry forms and that they still have to pass through customs with the terrible stress of knowing that they can be sent back and denied entry permanently.

If I were a citizen of another country, I'm sure I would not be willing to undergo the stress of traveling to the U.S.

For Englishgirl, Melia, Chris (ManchesterUK), Hermie, Jan, and OzJen, I am deeply sorry for what you had to go through to participate in this year's AMG. I am also terribly sorry that Emma and possibly other non-U.S. citizens were deterred from coming to the AMG because of the inhumane U.S. entry restrictions.

There are times that I feel embarrassed and ashamed to be a U.S. citizen. This is one of those times.

Allan
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Catman on September 24, 2007, 06:46:07 pm
Pardon my ignorance for not having the time to do research on this subject more before posting this, but, being Puerto Rico a "Commonwealth" NOT a state of the US, I was wondering if these same laws exist while traveling to the Carribean. I know many US laws are the same, but I go in and out with my meds and have never been asked about them even when the Fuzeon syringes appear on the x-ray screen. Any input out there of those Europeans who have visited my island? ???
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: gemini20 on September 24, 2007, 07:09:18 pm
i would be interested to know whether emma (gemini) would have been so stressed as to cancel her trip to amg if it had been held in a poz-friendly country. i for one had nightmares for days before taking the trip. and it was evident from posts on the forums that some people did not feel safe to come because of the issue of trying to bring in meds, and so missed out on amg.


I was definitely very anxious about travelling to the US without the required visa waiver. It probably accounted for a large part of the stress induced illness I succumbed to. I was so paranoid that someone somewhere might have identified me at immigration that I wouldn't even list my flight arrival/departure times in case someone could work out who I was and then pull me over when I tried to get in!

Obviously if AMG had been held in a poz-friendly country then that one element of stress would have been eliminated.

I have travelled to the US 3 times since diagnosis and never got this stressed before but then I was a lot less public about my status and also I had a lot more t-cells to play with back then.
Travelling with a count just above 100 contributed to my stress because I knew that if I had got sick and had to use medical services then any future trips to the US might have been jeopardised by being there illegally.

I am still bitterly disappointed at missing out on meeting so many members this time around, maybe if there was a European event that would help minimise my stress about travelling; though the stress about what to do with my cat would still need to be addressed!

Emma














Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 24, 2007, 07:27:48 pm
Pardon my ignorance for not having the time to do research on this subject more before posting this, but, being Puerto Rico a "Commonwealth" NOT a state of the US, I was wondering if these same laws exist while traveling to the Carribean. I know many US laws are the same, but I go in and out with my meds and have never been asked about them even when the Fuzeon syringes appear on the x-ray screen. Any input out there of those Europeans who have visited my island? ???

Entries and exits from non-US territory, including Puerto Rico, are subject to US customs.  All people entering from Europe would go through this, plus most travelers would probably first go through connections in Miami and NYC and thus customs in those locations.  But at any rate it would be the same result.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on September 25, 2007, 12:33:14 am
I like the idea of having an AMG in NA as well as in Europe.  Go to both, or one, or the other, something for everyone.  I still feel very strongly about the East Coast, most of that being due to the fact that I suffer extreme fatigue when traveling.  I like the idea of Philly or Baltimore, have NO desire to venture into NYC for anything, lol!  Chicago sounds great, but what about Riviera maya (south of Cancun) or Aruba?  Less expensive in Mexico, not sure about Aruba, but it would be a middle point for most, wouldn't it?  What about Savannah, GA?  Hot as balls in September, but a beautiful town, and Thunter would definitely be there!  ;)

~Cindy
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: northernguy on September 25, 2007, 11:11:41 am
I was hoping the issue of non-citizens HIV+ individuals entering the US had improved; I'd heard Bush's mentioning it was going to change, but I guess hearing him say something and actually seeing happen it are two different things...

What?!  Bush lies?!  Say it isn't so ;)

I think Englishgirl and Emma's post give a great insight for our American friends  into what we HIV+ folk face when going to the USA.  BTW I'm not plumping for the next AMG to be held in Canada, we've been honoured with that twice, and I think it fair that our European members get a chance for the short flights!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: anniebc on September 25, 2007, 04:37:20 pm
Quote
and I think it fair that our European members get a chance for the short flights!

European by birth but Aussie/NZ citizen by choice.

Regardless of were the next next AMG is held..US/Canada/Europe there is no such thing as a short flight for me...hell, it takes me 6 hours just to get out of NZ... :D.

Hugs
Jan :-*
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: pozattitude on September 25, 2007, 04:50:05 pm
Europe, Asia, U.S, South America...it doesn't matter.
I'd go to hell if I had to; just as long as I get to see everyone again.

Rich
(who misses everyone already)


Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Oceanbeach on September 25, 2007, 07:34:36 pm
there MAY be an opportunity on the Isle of Man for a venue.

This sounds like one of those dream vacations where I could forget to go home  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Have the best day
Michael
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: fearless on September 25, 2007, 07:50:36 pm
I like the idea of having an AMG in NA as well as in Europe.  Go to both, or one, or the other, something for everyone.  I still feel very strongly about the East Coast, most of that being due to the fact that I suffer extreme fatigue when traveling.  I like the idea of Philly or Baltimore, have NO desire to venture into NYC for anything, lol!  Chicago sounds great, but what about Riviera maya (south of Cancun) or Aruba?  Less expensive in Mexico, not sure about Aruba, but it would be a middle point for most, wouldn't it?  What about Savannah, GA?  Hot as balls in September, but a beautiful town, and Thunter would definitely be there!  ;)

~Cindy

The Riveria Maya is simply stunning, and Playa del Carmen a really charming town with easy access (day trips) to the island of Cozumel, and the Mayan ruins at Chichen Itza and Uxmal and the lovely city of Merida. September/October is off season and accomodation very very cheap. I had great accomodation for about $35 US a night in Play del Carmen. (Cancun, which I would not really recommend as it really is just a tourist town is also cheap at this time of year - I had an enourmous room with 2 queen sized beds overlooking the Carribean for $90 US a night). And, you can get direct flights from most places in the US/Canada/Europe.

Aruba looks great too. And, I could also travel to Venezuala which is on my list of things to do before I die.

Like Jan though, there is no such thing as a short flight for us. My return flight from Cancun (via Mexico city and LA) to Aus was something like 36 hours door to door. Add in the fact that you cross the dateline, and I think I left Cancun on Thursday and arrived home in on on the Saturday morning. As you could imagine, I stank and was somewhat cranky and tired when I arrived home. The price you pay for living at the 'arse end of the world' as one of our Prime Minister's put it.

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: aztecan on September 25, 2007, 09:37:22 pm
Europe, Asia, U.S, South America...it doesn't matter.
I'd go to hell if I had to; just as long as I get to see everyone again.

Rich
(who misses everyone already)




Hey Rich,

I miss you - and the others - too.

I like the idea of Europe, but don't know whether I could afford it. Barcelona sounds like fun, as does Amsterdam or the islands.

I also feel for our non-American brothers and sisters who risked a great deal coming into the U.S. this year and who would be risking the same again if it is held in the U.S>

I like the idea of Mexico, since the conference would be held there as well. Mexico can be affordable and fun.

If it is held in the U.S> again, Chicago would be OK. I also had the idea of going to New Orleans. The French Quarter wasn't flooded and should be fine and the city is notoriously friendly to everyone.

Just a thought.

HUGS,

Mark
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: RapidRod on September 25, 2007, 10:09:05 pm
I hope that we can have two AMGs next year. I know I couldn't afford to go out of the country, but I believe we have enough folks (which I wish we didn't and that no one had HIV) that we could have one in both places. I'm game for next year. I already miss everyone. I'm starting to save my coins for next year.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Cliff on September 26, 2007, 07:02:46 am
Honestly, the west coast time zone wiped me out.  I just couldn't handle the time change for such a short period of time.  I think my vote will go for a location on the east coast next time. 

Europe would be nice, but I'm afraid it just may be out of reach for most AMG participants.  A regional event might be cool....not sure if I have the time away from work to do two events a year.

c
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: David_CA on September 26, 2007, 10:12:06 am
Coastal Mexico sounds like it would be really nice and quite affordable.  There's one major issue, though.  Hurricanes.  August and September are prime hurricane season.  I'd hate to have an AMG ruined by something as probable as a hurricane.  Living in a VERY hurricane prone area has proven this to me over and over.  If they don't make their way up the East coast, they generally screw with the Gulf. 

David (who's been blown many times... by hurricanes  ;) )
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Cliff on September 26, 2007, 10:24:29 am
The other issue with Mexico is water supply.  I went to the Baja Penisula last summer with some friends and about 1/3 of us became ill during the trip, and we were staying at a resort where the water supply should have been up to a high standard.  We avoided drinking the water directly but still became ill, (probably due to ice in our drinks or the use of water in our cocktails or food).
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 26, 2007, 10:38:00 am
I really can't imagine going to Mexico at the height of summer, and that includes September down there.  The prices are cheaper for a reason -- the climate is nasty those months.

And I agree with Cliff, when you have a bunch of HIVers do you really want to be around questionable water supplies?  I've personally traveled to such countries with HIV but it is a big risk, certainly depending on how your lab numbers are.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Tim Horn on September 26, 2007, 03:53:04 pm
Some food for thought:

The 17th International AIDS Conference is taking place in Mexico City from August 3 to 8, 2008. An AMG immediately following the conference might be an option to consider, with some folks arriving early to attend the conference itself. Here's a link (http://www.aids2008.org/) to the official conference website.  There are plenty of affordable hotels throughout Mexico City and the weather is quite agreeable (plus, the famous Mexico City smog is considerably better in the summer months). As for the water supply, NOBODY should be drinking from the tap -- bottled water is in abundance and restaurants, more times than not, use iodine to help sterilize water used for washing vegetables and such, especially those to be eaten raw.

I lived in Mexico City for two years, so if I can be of any help in furthering this as a suggestion, please let me know.

Tim Horn
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: RapidRod on September 26, 2007, 04:07:34 pm
Tim, you don't have to worry about this crew drinking the water. They just better not run out of booze.  :)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Jerry71 on September 26, 2007, 04:26:29 pm
I guess if we plan on a trip out of the states and you don't have a passport yet you better start now to get one or face not going to next years AMG. I for one do not have a passport due to the fact of not ever going out of the USA.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 26, 2007, 04:30:59 pm
I need to renew mine as it expires in 4 months.  Thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: RapidRod on September 26, 2007, 07:12:00 pm
Yeah, I'll have to get a passport myself and probably should do it early due to the back log.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Lisa on September 26, 2007, 07:44:17 pm
I'm not so sure that many of the US participants will be able to get a passport in time due to the huge backlog by our efficient government. I am in love with the idea of Europe, but my pragmatic mind goes into major overload when I start thinking bout how many fewer would be able to attend because the grants commitee wouldn't be able to swing but a meager two or three because of the airfares involved.
Not trying to rain on the parade, but I just don't know how feasible it would be.

    ::ducks and runs for cover::
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: fearless on September 26, 2007, 08:09:15 pm
I really can't imagine going to Mexico at the height of summer, and that includes September down there.  The prices are cheaper for a reason -- the climate is nasty those months.

And I agree with Cliff, when you have a bunch of HIVers do you really want to be around questionable water supplies?  I've personally traveled to such countries with HIV but it is a big risk, certainly depending on how your lab numbers are.

Depends on what you call nasty, I guess. Personally, I found it pleasant at that time of year, but I take the point that you softies may not be able to cope.  ;D

As for the water, it is bad on the Yucatan Peninsula, but it is so bad the locals don't touch it either. All water is filtered or bottled, including the water they use to wash your food in, use for ice. But again, I take the point. Water can be problematic wherever you go though, and regardless of HIV. For example, the water in the UK is perfectly drinkable, but becuase I am unused to it, it always turns my stomach. As a rule, I never drink the local water whenever I travel overseas, regardless of whether or not it is drinkable.

We're starting to run out of options though. US options are problematic for us foreigners, Canada has been done to death, and Europe seems too expensive.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 26, 2007, 08:18:47 pm
btw, when I said Mexico at the height of summer I was particularly thinking of the Yucatan, as it's the Caribbean type of climate as opposed to Mexico City which is a higher attitude than somewhere like Denver even.  For example Mexico City is currently 66F/18C. 

My issue is more humidity than temperature.  The Caribbean is just very humid at the heigh of summer... think going to Miami in August.  I wouldn't spend money on that myself.

By the way, is there a reason that this function is held in September as opposed to October?
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: allanq on September 26, 2007, 09:16:23 pm
Canada is a big country, so even though we've had two AMG's in Canada, there are still lots more interesting places in Canada. I've never been to Ottawa, but I was looking at a website for Ottawa (http://www.ottawa.com/visitOttawa/main_e.shtml), and it looks like an attractive and interesting city. Air Canada has non-stop flights from London so Europeans would not have to enter the U.S. It's several hours closer for Europeans than San Francisco. Climate in September & October should be good, and the water is safe to drink. The Canadian dollar has risen sharply against the U.S. dollar, but I'm sure Ottawa is still less expensive than Europe.

Just putting another possibility out there.

Allan
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on September 26, 2007, 10:00:17 pm
ugh not ottawa please  >:(

the only interest is that when you cross the river you're suddenly in France and everyone speaks French to you. Then you cross back and you're back to England. Apart from that, this is a dull city.

Milker.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: fearless on September 26, 2007, 10:09:10 pm
btw, when I said Mexico at the height of summer I was particularly thinking of the Yucatan, as it's the Caribbean type of climate as opposed to Mexico City which is a higher attitude than somewhere like Denver even.  For example Mexico City is currently 66F/18C. 

My issue is more humidity than temperature.  The Caribbean is just very humid at the heigh of summer... think going to Miami in August.  I wouldn't spend money on that myself.

So was I. But I thrive on humidity. Call me crazy. At 18C, I'd be freezing my tits of in Mexico city today.

It is going to be such a big undertaking for me, as it is such a long way to travel that it is really only worth my while if I can tack AMG onto longer holiday. I have no real interest in Canada and the US is problematic.

Guess I'll change my preferences and vote for Europe, anywhere, and then I'll go off to fulfill my Sicilian fantasy.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: allanq on September 26, 2007, 10:21:45 pm
ugh not ottawa please  >:(

the only interest is that when you cross the river you're suddenly in France and everyone speaks French to you. Then you cross back and you're back to England. Apart from that, this is a dull city.

Milker.

I guess you can make anyplace look attractive on a website.

AllanQ
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 26, 2007, 10:45:22 pm
then I'll go off to fulfill my Sicilian fantasy.

I get Sicily every day in the neighborhood I live in :)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on September 26, 2007, 10:55:26 pm
I get Sicily every day in the neighborhood I live in :)
Sicily is beautiful, like Corsica, but I'm not sure what a bunch of HIV positive people would do there. And how Corleone would react.

Milker.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: fearless on September 26, 2007, 11:36:55 pm
Milker, Sicily is not for all of you, just me after AMG. ;D But, there is heaps to do there. So many different peoples have contorlled Siciliy over the years, it is steeped in history. Also, has some great ancient Greek ruins, an active volcano, food and coffee to die for. Beaches. And, Sicilianos -WOOF.

Philly, I grew up with Sicilians and Calabrians. Hence, my deep desire to spend some time there. And, yes, I've had my fill of Sicilians. My first sexual encounters of any kind were with a Sicilian boy from up the street.

I'm thinking AMG should be either Amsterdam or Lisbon.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 26, 2007, 11:45:31 pm
I'll be heading for the Costa Smeralda in Sardinia for some Campari and Cock.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on September 27, 2007, 12:06:39 am
I'll be heading for the Costa Smeralda in Sardinia for some Campari and Cock.
Only you can find cock in Sardinia :D

Milker (who will sip the Campari)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on September 27, 2007, 12:20:03 am
I don't do well with humidity, either, and if I were in Mexico, I would be by the pool all damn day, and on the dance floor all damn night (with air conditioning, of course).  I understand about the water issue, but most of the hotels have pretty good filtration systems just for that very reason.  I have been to Cancun twice, and visited the Riviera Maya during one of those stays. 

I still say Cancun/Riviera Maya is good because its CHEAP and its a place that our friends from Europe can get to, as well.  It stinks that the Aussies have such a far haul to get anywhere near NA.

Also, do you actually need a PASSPORT these days, or can you still get by with the birth certificate and driver's license, like I did in 2000 and 2003?

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 27, 2007, 12:26:28 am

Also, do you actually need a PASSPORT these days, or can you still get by with the birth certificate and driver's license, like I did in 2000 and 2003?


http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

yes, by the time of the next AMG the rules will have changed for Mexico if I read that correctly
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on September 27, 2007, 12:27:56 am
Well, crap on a stick!

TY, Philly!  :)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Ann on September 27, 2007, 08:28:09 am
~ahem~


Amsterdamnit?



:)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on September 27, 2007, 09:32:16 am
A European/Scandanavian gathering would be VERY cool but it'll diminish in US attendance considerably. Many just can't afford the cost of getting there much less discovering our US dollars won't go far once there.

Using orbitz I searched for a round trip for a week to Amsterdam now and a few months down the line:
The lowest cost flights I could find:
RT Flight to Amsterdam in 2nd week of October on US Airways: [Philly to Amsterdam] $757.00
RT Flight to Amsterdam in April 08 on Continental: [Philly to Newark to Amsterdam] $839.00
+Food.
+Hotel.
+Transport.
About 2 grand for a week for the frugal. (who goes overseas for only 4 days!)
xxx,
Mike


Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 27, 2007, 09:55:56 am
Amsterdam is NOT Scandinavia, darling.  That said, if you do want Scandinavia I have friends in Stockholm so I'll have a free place to stay.  Copenhagen and Helsinki are two of my VERY favorite cities in Europe.

But yes Mike, it's safe to say the numbers for US attendees will be wildly affected, and let's all face it -- we probably make up 75% of the board, or more.  If I decided to go I think I'd have to use my airline milage, and yeah I'd not want to dash over somewhere for 4 days.

I double-checked prices from Newark, NJ airport which is often cheaper due to volume as a Continental hub,  and via travelocity.com found a RT flight for $536.10

That said, once you pay for a flight and save up money for the hotel, you're going to be slammed with day-to-day prices because the US dollar sticks royally.  It's really a travesty.  When I went to Iceland last year I recall paying $10 FOR A HOT DOG at a rest stop no less.  Iceland is more expensive than mainland Europe, but still... expect $8 for a piece of dust on the floor.  Forget ordering a steak anywhere.

I would think for the bargain that the rest of the world is getting in the US they'd all be clamoring to visit, which I guess would be the case except for the HIV med worries (which, while I totally understand I think is quite over-hyped).
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: RapidRod on September 27, 2007, 11:06:14 am
I like the idea of going to Mexico or the east coast myself. I'd love to go to Europe but that is out of the question for me.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dan J. on September 27, 2007, 11:12:27 am
How about Boston Ma.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: englishgirl on September 27, 2007, 11:29:49 am
I would think for the bargain that the rest of the world is getting in the US they'd all be clamoring to visit, which I guess would be the case except for the HIV med worries (which, while I totally understand I think is quite over-hyped).
another reason that people dont like to visit the US is because we all get treated SOOOOO badly at immigration that even our governments have complained about it to your government, your government had to request port authority staff to be less rude and the city of new york has just launched an ad campaign using celebrities to try to lure people back. honestly it really is a dreadful and pretty intimidating experience going through border control, even for the general public hiv not even in the equation. very sad that it's so but i actually know quite a few people who have been put off visiting despite the weakness of the dollar cos of past bad experiences.

That said, once you pay for a flight and save up money for the hotel, you're going to be slammed with day-to-day prices because the US dollar sticks royally.  It's really a travesty.  When I went to Iceland last year I recall paying $10 FOR A HOT DOG at a rest stop no less.  Iceland is more expensive than mainland Europe, but still... expect $8 for a piece of dust on the floor.  Forget ordering a steak anywhere.
it's not just cos the dollar is weak - some parts of europe are just REALLY expensive. i sympathise! melia and i noticed at amg that what US folks think is expensive (eg for food) is actually what we normally pay. no wonder i never have enough money!!

i hear what youre saying about not wanting to go so far for only 4 days or so, but that's what we're expected to do to come to an amg in the states! maybe dennis' idea of a cruise is a good idea (a week or so, and you know already what your food & board expenses will be) but again the issue of US immigration comes up.

if europe is out then i'm liking the idea of canada (east coast) or mexico. or maybe we should meet halfway and go to the azores, altho personally i always think they look grim as hell apparently they are quite nice...
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 27, 2007, 11:37:42 am
While I do understand the US border control is a bitch, I will qualify it and state I've experienced unsavory situations in Europe.  I was pulled aside twice in Charels de Gaulle airport last year, and I was completely searched in at the airport in Reykjavik.  Not only that but in the later airport I had to explain what my Biojector (for fuzeon injections) was for and show copious documentation for the instrument.  There are many other times I've gotten searched, even pre-EU controls on a cross border train going into France where they insisted that charcoal (I was an art student) was hashish or something... and I had to deal with that in  another language.

Dunno... I just look at it as part of traveling and get on with it.  Then again I've been told I look like a drug dealer.

That said, I realize that the HIV/US stuff causes a lot of grief for many.  I don't think there's a great solution to all of this except to conduct separate AMG functions and let other choose which to attend.  We're all going around in circles.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: NycJoe on September 27, 2007, 12:39:42 pm
I would love to go to Amsterdam.  Never been and I think with advance notice could def save up the $$ for it.  So if their is a Euro AMG I would love to go....Joe
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on September 28, 2007, 07:00:26 am
No philly, not going in circles. Folks just voicing ideas and opinions here. I have learned a thing or two about what Europeans go thought to get here. I see you have had the same treatment on foreign soils. So, i repeat, it's just exchanging ideas as the tallying of the votes determines where it's held. Very democratic, you know.

Cruise: a cruise leaving out of a Canadian or non-US port would be another consideration regarding our sweet Europeans members with no worry about meds. Ports: Canadian west coast, Vancouver, or Canadian east coast.
Cruises are especially cost efficient for groups too.
xxx,
Mike




Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dragonette on September 28, 2007, 07:55:24 am
Englishgirl, thanks for putting it out there.

I can come to Mexico, Canada, Aruba, whatever... Amsterdam would be a great place, and I am not saying it cos it's close, I think it's a great place for such a gathering, smallish, friendly, green and "green", lots of gay establishments/hotels, great nightlife, art, markets... what more do we need? It's the only place I know that is completly sleazy and invitingly cozy at the same time. It does have crappish weather though but no worse than the UK. The best time is probabaly mid-april to June. Although Sep. can be good too, it was great in previous years but we know what a "summer" we had in western Europe this year... at least it's not cold.
Yes it is expensive, but maybe something could be worked out, a cheap deal with a B&B or something. I doubt though that Amsterdam is more expensive than NYC or SF. London most prob is... the gap between UK and here is quite astonishing.

And I am always up for Spain, the Canary islands would be good too, though I don't know how "free" we would feel there. I have never been but is does look bit like chav heaven. Still, strength in numbers...

But then again, I re-scrolled to the top and Fearless' description of Mexico is quite tantalizing...

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 28, 2007, 10:03:06 am
No philly, not going in circles. Folks just voicing ideas and opinions here.

I was more referencing the overall concept of whether to have two AMGs or one, that's all.  Not any details as to what/when/where past that decision.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: northernguy on September 28, 2007, 11:21:51 am
I get Sicily every day in the neighborhood I live in :)

Do you have a little Sicilian in you?
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: ademas on September 28, 2007, 04:50:06 pm
I love Mexico City, and I have a very good poz friend there. 
I'd love a good excuse to go back.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 28, 2007, 04:53:43 pm
oh... and cat tranquilzer is for sale in every club really cheap.  That pretty much settles it for me then.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: allanq on September 28, 2007, 05:37:20 pm
What about Bermuda?

There are non-stop flights from London (British Airways through Gatwick), so we can avoid the problem of U.S. entry restrictions for European members. There are also non-stops from many cities in the U.S., including Chicago and many cities on the east coast. I'm not sure how members from Australia & New Zealand could avoid connections in the U.S.

AllanQ
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: RapidRod on September 28, 2007, 06:19:02 pm
What about Bermuda? I took a risk and got HIV. I'll be damn if I take another and fly over the Bermuda Triangle.  ;D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dan J. on September 28, 2007, 06:54:20 pm
What about the British Virgin Islands ?
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dennis on September 28, 2007, 08:17:32 pm
Bermuda is beautiful.  However, it is also very expensive.


What about Bermuda?

There are non-stop flights from London (British Airways through Gatwick), so we can avoid the problem of U.S. entry restrictions for European members. There are also non-stops from many cities in the U.S., including Chicago and many cities on the east coast. I'm not sure how members from Australia & New Zealand could avoid connections in the U.S.

AllanQ

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: tigger2376 on September 28, 2007, 11:07:43 pm
This is now getting fantastic! Bermuda not an option for most...as if I didnt know!
Barcelona
Paris
London
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: allanq on September 28, 2007, 11:46:09 pm
Here's an interesting list:

The world's most expensive cities (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933749.html)

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: northernguy on September 30, 2007, 12:34:29 pm
What about the British Virgin Islands ?

While there may be a few Brits amongst us, I can guarantee there are no virgins.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: englishgirl on September 30, 2007, 12:49:19 pm
While there may be a few Brits amongst us, I can guarantee there are no virgins.
i believe i am a 'technical' virgin it's been that long >:(
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: gerry on September 30, 2007, 02:47:22 pm
One question; What about the Grants Committee? Can we realistically expect to raise two lots of grant monies per year?


It takes about 6 months for the Grants Committee to do the work and have a comfortable breathing room.  Time is essential in planning this in order to raise the money, communicate and coordinate with people needing assistance, get someone to clinch a good deal on airfare, etc.

Likewise, the pool of donors is not extensive.  Even though we raised a lot of money this year, there were less than 20 donors involved.  Their continued generosity is impressive (as I've been in the committee the last 3 years).  Having said that, I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect annual, or in this alternative proposal, twice-yearly participation from the pool of donors.  If people are convinced that the existence of the grants committee is an important part of these gatherings, then more work and commitment spread throughout the members who believe in it would probably need to be though out and realized.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on October 01, 2007, 06:20:28 am
All suggestions have been excellent. I was pondering Isla Mujeres, Mexico as an ideal destination (half mile wide and 7 miles long) then it occurred to me that the islanders would not likely deal well with 30 to 40 odd HIVers. I realized that it would NOT be an ideal spot for an AMG. I also understand how we, as a group, are quite 'out' and want to keep it that way. Being open about our status in a relaxed comfort zone is something we insist upon.  Rightly so. ;)
So having said that, I'll agree that London, Amsterdam, Chicago, Montreal (again), Vancouver, Spain, etc. are some excellent destinations but when we consider the smaller islands--we'd be wise to account for their tolerance level--for our sake.

just saying...
Mike
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Moffie65 on October 01, 2007, 12:36:11 pm
Cheap? Accessible?, Loads of fun?.  I vote for Cuba, which is totally accessible for U.S. Citizens via Mexico, or other Central American connections, and easily accessible for any of our off shore forum members directly. ;)

Love,
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: englishgirl on October 01, 2007, 02:54:07 pm
Cheap? Accessible?, Loads of fun?.  I vote for Cuba, which is totally accessible for U.S. Citizens via Mexico, or other Central American connections, and easily accessible for any of our off shore forum members directly. ;)
you naughty man...
...but i love it!!
xxxxx
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dachshund on October 01, 2007, 03:03:11 pm
Tim, guess we will see you in C-U-B-A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbHjUwQ3FQo
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 01, 2007, 03:03:52 pm
I must confess:  the largest one I ever scored was half Cuban.

... and the plowing was wildly fulfilling
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 01, 2007, 03:57:55 pm
I don't think The Principality of Sealand (http://www.fruitsofthesea.demon.co.uk/sealand/gallery.html) has any HIV entry restrictions.

Milker.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: englishgirl on October 01, 2007, 04:47:51 pm
would it not make sense to club together and buy this (http://www.realestateofbelize.com/portfolio/belize-properties.asp?id=66) then we could make up our own laws & restrictions...

ok, in the short term in might stretch the grants committee somewhat, but remember that we've got plenty of years ahead of us so will get tons of use out of it...
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mrtallguy on October 01, 2007, 08:26:05 pm
Milker....you rate very high in MANY ways with me  :P

However, The Principality of Sealand looks a bit.....um.....sparse!

Englishgirl....now miss thing....I LIKE your idea of island hopping! LET'S DO IT!!

xoxo

Craig
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: komnaes on October 02, 2007, 05:43:40 am
Hiya folks

Just one question - who can join? I have joined the forum for almost a month now and unless it's in some really far off places like the Sealand I would like to join the next one, be it in NA or Europe, and with my own expenses if my work schedule allows it. Are there any restrictions?

Thanks,

Shaun
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on October 02, 2007, 06:57:29 am
Hi Shaun. Everyone on the forum is welcomed to an AMG. Newbies and long-timers alike.
The dates/location is determined by ballots cast on here on the forum--by forum members. We vote on dates. Then we vote on location. So comment, vote and join us in 2008.
 :),
Mike

P.S. Edited for clarity.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: komnaes on October 02, 2007, 07:12:45 am
Thanks Mike!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 02, 2007, 10:02:10 am
Are there any restrictions?
Bring the booze!  :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) :P :P :P

Milker.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 02, 2007, 10:47:05 am
Hiya folks

Just one question - who can join? I have joined the forum for almost a month now and unless it's in some really far off places like the Sealand I would like to join the next one, be it in NA or Europe, and with my own expenses if my work schedule allows it. Are there any restrictions?

Thanks,

Shaun

Sean, we always welcome boys carrying vibrating dildos from Hong Kong.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: komnaes on October 02, 2007, 10:53:43 am
Sean, we always welcome boys carrying vibrating dildos from Hong Kong.

They are all made in China these days aren't they.. ;D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 02, 2007, 11:07:26 am
boycott dildos!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Oceanbeach on October 03, 2007, 01:16:07 am
When I met Herman at Meet and Greet, he gave me two hugs.  The first was from him and the second hug was from Eirin.  I lived in Spain for a couple years and that was in another century (I turned 21 in Madrid).  I used to have this dream where I was driving my sporty car in the Plaza Cibeles and couldn't decide which street to take because they all went somewhere fabulous.  I have driven past the Museo del Prado a thousand times and have never been inside.  I knew all the best clubs though.

Tigger dear, if you want to put this AMG together for any European city, I will try and save enough money to be there.  Have the best day
Michael
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: dixieman on October 03, 2007, 11:40:07 am
Anywhere would be fine with me... but, its according to the time of year? I prefer europe in the spring... and canada after may... its cold up there... Amsterdam is beautiful in late april to may... so whatever... you only live once... just post a date because, some people are still employed and have to arrange their schedules with their place of employment...
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Iggy on October 03, 2007, 02:11:50 pm
What about Prague?

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 03, 2007, 02:15:14 pm
What about Liechtenstein?
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Iggy on October 03, 2007, 03:13:51 pm
What about Liechtenstein?


ooohhh.  I'm so there!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 03, 2007, 03:43:03 pm
I'm surprised that nobody's suggested Berlin.  Doesn't that have the sleaziest sex clubs right now?  I know my fisting top ex can't get enough of it... well, that and Rio.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 03, 2007, 03:52:20 pm
I'm surprised that nobody's suggested Berlin.  Doesn't that have the sleaziest sex clubs right now?  I know my fisting top ex can't get enough of it... well, that and Rio.
oh yes I always wanted to go. But do I really want to go with AM members ???
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: pozattitude on October 03, 2007, 04:49:12 pm
Ich libe Berlin....I love Berlin, it has always had an incredible night life (sex life) dating way back (Berlin was known for its Bohemian life before the Nazi's took over power).
Hamburg is also another great German city and it has the famous St Pauli Strasse (or the Haperban..their red light district)...germans usually have a very open mind towards sexuality anyway....

anyhow....as I said before...anywhere is fine, I just want to make sure that we can decide on a location where most can afford to go.

Rich
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on October 03, 2007, 05:00:40 pm
Fisting? I want to back to North America.
xxx,
Mike
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dan J. on October 03, 2007, 05:27:08 pm
While Europe sound interesting I just don't see how it would be economically feasable for several of us.

Cities like Detroit and Sacramento may not register as high on your gaydar as Boston or San Francisco, but that doesn't mean they don't have plenty to offer gay travelers. Many of us end up passing through smaller or less glamorous cities, perhaps on business, visiting friends or relatives, or enjoying a quick weekend getaway. It's always a pleasant surprise to discover that a destination you had modest hopes for fosters a vibrant gay social scene.

1. Columbus, Ohio
Ohio's largest city has two of the components that make for a great gay scene: it has a major collegiate presence (Ohio State University), and it's a center of government (being the state capital). An extremely high number of gays and lesbians live here, and enjoy its lively downtown neighborhoods (such as the gay-popular Short North and German Village areas). Columbus has one of the Midwest's best culinary reputations, a high number of art galleries, numerous gay sports clubs, and a youthful but unpretentious gay club scene. What more could a worldly traveler ask for?

2. Albuquerque, New Mexico
Sometimes unfairly dismissed as a mere gateway to Santa Fe and Taos, the nation's hot-air ballooning capital has enough going for it to merit at least a three-day visit. Many lesbians and gay men call the "Duke City" home. You can explore up-and-coming downtown's and historic Old Town's galleries and museums, Nob Hill and Route 66's trendy restaurants and handful of gay clubs, and the dramatic, 10,600-foot Sandia Mountains that fringe town - visit them via the aerial tramway (the world's longest). Best of all, hotel rates here are about half what you'll pay in Santa Fe, and Albuquerque has several gay-friendly B&Bs.

3. Providence, Rhode Island
Just 45 minutes from Boston, the largest city in America with an openly gay mayor has long been a tolerant, erudite, and progressive community. Artsy, left-leaning colleges like Brown, Rhode Island School of Design, and Johnson & Wales bring in a steady stream of gay students and academics. Superb restaurants, a vibrant Little Italy, restored historic neighborhoods, and a moderate cost of living (by Northeastern standards) are further draws to Rhode Island's state capital. Providence is also the only city in New England with any gay bathhouses, which makes it something of a draw for guys on the make.

4. Salt Lake City, Utah
Nestled in the shadows of the spectacular Wasatch Mountains, which offer some of the world's best skiing as well as the annual (and very gay) Sundance Film Festival (held in nearby Park City), Salt Lake City has a conservative reputation owing to its Mormon heritage and Utah's decidedly red-state status. But Salt Lake is an eclectic city with plenty of outdoorsy, environmentally minded, socially liberal residents, and the handful of gay nightclubs here are wildly fun, much to the surprise of first-time visitors. There are several gay-friendly B&Bs in town as well as the gay-popular Hotel Monaco.

5. Kansas City, Missouri
Near the nation's geographic center, Kansas City is nevertheless often overlooked by gay and lesbian travelers. It's a shame, because this surprisingly hilly and leafy metropolis on the Missouri River possesses considerable charms, and although the gay scene is comparatively discreet, it's still active and sizable. K.C. has plenty of gay-friendly bars and eateries, plus a super snazzy retail and dining district, Country Club Plaza, famous for its elaborate Spanish-style architecture. First-rate art museums, a respectable theater scene, and mouthwatering barbecue offer further enticements to come and stay for a while.

6. Detroit, Michigan
One of America's largest cities, Detroit hardly lacks name recognition. Unfortunately, since the decline of the auto industry and the urban exodus of the mid-20th-century, Motor City has battled with image problems. The highly pronounced gay population here lives and plays mostly in the nearby towns of Ferndale and Royal Oak, but downtown Detroit itself has among the nation's most vaunted cultural treasures: historic theaters and performance halls, the estimable Detroit Institute of the Arts, and such outlying attractions as the Henry Ford Museum and Cranbrook Art Museum. This is a city whose star is rising.

7. New Haven, Connecticut
Famous for Yale University, New Haven has enjoyed one of the Northeast's most stunning renaissances in recent years, following decades of urban ills. It's the most liberal city in a state that recently legalized same-sex civil unions, and gays make up a big chunk of the social fabric here. Yale operates some outstanding museums, and the surrounding neighborhood has a dynamic, eclectic retail and dining scene that you'd expect of a much larger city. Theater buffs watch top-notch plays and musicals at the city's three highly respected performing arts venues. Did we mention Jodie Foster and Larry Kramer are Yale alums?

8. Fort Worth, Texas
Nearby Dallas may have more gay bars and a ritzier reputation, but this self-proclaimed Cow Town of about 500,000 people has the far more impressive cultural heritage, including such renowned institutions as the Kimbell Art Museum, Amon Carter Museum, Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth, and Bass Performance Hall. The city also has a number of first-rate restaurants, the infectiously fun if honky-tonk Stockyards district, and a handful of down-home friendly gay bars. And the National Cowgirl Museum & Hall of Fame has developed something of a lesbian following since it opened in 2002.

9. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
With a hilly, scenic setting at the confluence of three major rivers, the Steel City has gradually shed its image as a gruff blue-collar town, as new high-tech industries have moved in, and fans of arts and culture have become more familiar with such attractions as the fabulous Andy Warhol Museum, the provocative Mattress Factory modern art museum, and many museums associated with Carnegie Mellon and the University of Pittsburgh. The U.S. version of the TV show Queer As Folk was set in Pittsburgh (although filmed in Toronto), which has helped increase the city's queer visibility.

10. Sacramento, California
California's state capital is as desirable for what it's near as for what it is - within a two-hour drive are San Francisco, Tahoe, Napa and Sonoma, and Yosemite National Park. But this laid-back, attractive river city has its own charms as well, including a dynamic downtown shaded by leafy trees and packed with historic Victorian and Arts and Crafts homes, not to mention a number of stellar restaurants and convivial, gay-popular coffeehouses. Sacramento also has a handful of gay bars and gay-owned accommodations, making it a friendly, relaxed alternative to some of California's bigger and pricier urban destinations.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on October 03, 2007, 07:36:30 pm
Columbus, Ohio sucks.

Mike
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 03, 2007, 07:40:30 pm
So does New Haven.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: SecretKeeper on October 03, 2007, 10:51:44 pm
If you're looking for a midwestern US city - what about ...

Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 03, 2007, 10:59:34 pm
I'm not sure concentrating on what is the best gaydar city for AMG is what we want here.

What about Ireland? Dublin? Galway? A tour? Ireland is a beautiful country.

Milker.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 03, 2007, 11:10:40 pm
I'm not sure concentration on what is the best alcohol city for AMG is what we want here.

How about Tehran?
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 03, 2007, 11:21:33 pm
I'm not sure concentration on what is the best alcohol city for AMG is what we want here.

How about Tehran?
bitch
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on October 03, 2007, 11:28:22 pm
LOL, you guys are crazy!  Here I am, unemployed, still dreaming of attending AMG!  I will do my best!  I still say Riviera Maya, but someone threw Boston out there, too.  I went in April 2003 and loved it, would go there or anywhere in New England in a heartbeat.

~Cindy
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: TopherK on October 03, 2007, 11:50:46 pm
Soooo... Cindy's post gave me an idea.  What about Washington, D.C.?  Flights into Dulles are relatively easy from abroad, the night life is rockin' and one of my favorite places to stay, The Tabard Inn, is right near a Metro stop at Dupont Circle (a.k.a. the "Fruit Loop") and isn't terribly expensive.  Plus, the city offers a TON of diversions.

I missed this year's event thanks to Bay Area rodeo committments but will move heaven & earth to join the crew next year, regardless of the locale.

And yes, Ann, Amsterdam would be a blast as well.  Being a native, I'm partial to D.C. though, and I give a mean "behind the marble curtain" tour  ;)

-Topher
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 04, 2007, 12:02:56 am
DC airport immigration agents and custom agents are the worst.

Milker (who lived in DC)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on October 04, 2007, 12:08:23 am
LOL at Fruit Loop!  Never heard it called that before, lol.   :D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 04, 2007, 12:11:55 am
DC is about the most tired place on the planet.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: TopherK on October 04, 2007, 12:19:59 am
That's a shame, Milker.  I haven't flown in there internationally in quite a few years.  Never had problems before, but the world has certainly changed.  Oh, well... so much for that.

Cindy I'm surprised you've never heard that term.  Dupont has been the gayest of gay neighborhoods since before Reagan was in office.  Great places to eat, and a terrific selection of bars (one for every fetish)... it's just too bad the city cops cracked down on the P St. beach.  Not that I would know first hand - ahem - but those bushes would certainly be a'rustling after the bars closed  ::)

Philly, I'm sorry you feel that way. 

-Topher
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on October 04, 2007, 12:28:08 am
I knew that Dupont Circle was a gay area, and I'd even heard of "P St. Beach," but Fruit Loop?  LOL 

OMG, I can't get the visions of Toucan Sam outta my head now, lmao!
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 04, 2007, 12:31:25 am

Philly, I'm sorry you feel that way. 

-Topher

Yes well, you're not the only native of that area honey.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 04, 2007, 12:38:37 am
it's just too bad the city cops cracked down on the P St. beach.
They haven't :D

Milker (who knows first hand)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: englishgirl on October 04, 2007, 02:52:37 am
sorrry to sound like a broken record but please can we discount locations in the united states unless you actually want anyone who isnt a US citizen to either not be able to attend or to have to commit a felony and risk permanent exclusion by trying to enter the states...

if europe isnt econonically feasible then canada? latin america? anywhere that actually allows us in that is near enough and cheap enough for the majority of people to get to?

(i think i should stop reading this thread cos every time someone suggests an american location im snarling! >:()
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dan J. on October 04, 2007, 03:08:16 am
I'm sorry didn't mean to make you snarl sweetie.  There are just so many issues about location that it's hard to find something that everyone can agree on. I love the idea of Mexico City or how about Vancover BC?  I would even be interested in going back to Montreal again. God willing I plan on being there wherever it may be.

The point of the list of 10 cities wasn't about "hooking up" with people it was about finding a gay friendly city  besides the obvious choices that are more well known.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on October 04, 2007, 07:29:06 am
engishgirl, just keep in mind that all these suggestions and voicing of options are all taken into consideration by the co-ordinators, then, voted upon. Those who co-ordinate the affair will no doubt have non-US locations for us to consider. They will not forget your perils in traveling to USA.
As long as the US currency is not diminished 50% of it's value I will vote for a non-US location. The money I would lose in value in London, England, for instance, is money I could use to help someone else experience AMG. (Euro : Dollar)

None of us (well, most of us) appreciate what you people have to endure to get here. It sucks. We are regretful of this absurdity and of such a backward law. If it weren't for this ass-backwardness the eastern US would be a great destination as your euros double in value..........and your flight hours would be cut in by four hours --> easier on the butts.  :D

In Canada, Montreal is also appealing. AMG has been held there before but so what. There is so much to do and see there that I only experience a fraction of it when I attended the Outgames. (As a note: a total-nudity strip bar.)
During AMG '07, there was so much good, positive energy from our visitors across the ocean. I certainly would love to see your happy faces again and again.

Mike
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: komnaes on October 04, 2007, 07:32:38 am
DC is about the most tired place on the planet.

But don't they have the only strip clubs where the guys can go full-front in the entire US of A! ;D

Not in a very good area though....
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dan J. on October 04, 2007, 07:42:33 am
I was teabagged in that place! ::)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 04, 2007, 10:07:13 am
But don't they have the only strip clubs where the guys can go full-front in the entire US of A! ;D

Not in a very good area though....

I was under the impression that those had closed recently due to construction of a sports stadium.  You're probably referring to The Follies club and Edge/Wet.  I think when they tried to relocate the community boards would not approve it.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/tell/2006/tell1117.html
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: milker on October 04, 2007, 10:31:55 am
But don't they have the only strip clubs where the guys can go full-front in the entire US of A! ;D

Not in a very good area though....
They must have one piece of garment. That's why they have one sock :D Tea bagging is illegal but it pleases congressmen so much that police looks away..

Milker (who wondered how those guys can dance and be hard at the same time.. but I digress)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: komnaes on October 04, 2007, 12:09:22 pm
They must have one piece of garment. That's why they have one sock :D Tea bagging is illegal but it pleases congressmen so much that police looks away..

Milker (who wondered how those guys can dance and be hard at the same time.. but I digress)

Oh yeah.. how could I forget the socks... I have lost a few five dollar bills inside those socks. ;D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: allopathicholistic on October 04, 2007, 01:38:30 pm
DC is about the most tired place on the planet.

Well, we can make it fun!  :D Anyhue this guy didn't think D.C. was boring (although he might've gone too far)

 dept-of-embassy-row-gay-sex-parties/nyc-gay-legend-dead-after-saudi-sex-parties-in-dc (http://wonkette.com/politics/dept%27-of-embassy-row-gay-sex-parties/nyc-gay-legend-dead-after-saudi-sex-parties-in-dc-306321.php)

 2007-10-02_gay_party_king_found_dead_in_dc.html  (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/02/2007-10-02_gay_party_king_found_dead_in_dc.html)
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 05, 2007, 12:02:49 pm
Don't fuck with Dean Johnson honey.  He was legendary!  Strictly speaking as an attendee of the Rock & Roll Fag Bar at The World.

Odd that he was watching "Cruising" when he was (?) murdered (?) overdosed, but then again it DID just finally see a proper DVD release for the first time last month.

For anyone interested he has a longer obit in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/nyregion/05johnson.html

edit:  omg, they quote a friend of mine in it
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: aztecan on October 07, 2007, 11:00:06 pm
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I still think Mexico City would be a great destination. AMG08 could be scheduled right after the international AIDS conference, as Tim suggested, and I could justify going to both!  ;D

Vancouver, BC, also sounds like a winner. I say this as my way of protesting the ongoing U.S. stupidity regarding HIV-positive visitors.

Don't get me wrong. San Francisco was wonderful and I loved every moment of it. But I also know what might have happened to some of our brothers and sisters as they entered the U.S.

Whatever the outcome, I think it would be wise for people to make sure they have their pass ports in order. Now is definitely a good time to file for one if you need to get one or renew one.

HUGS,

Mark
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: JohnOso on October 08, 2007, 06:37:51 am


I've always wanted to go to Mexico City.  Would really like to attend the Int'l AIDS Conference there too.

BTW, what's the crime situation like there nowadays?


Berlin would be interesting too.
If only for nostalgic reasons.   ;)



Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: anniebc on October 08, 2007, 05:01:10 pm
Quote
I'm surprised that nobody's suggested Berlin

According to Leonard Cohen..First we take Manhatten THEN we take Belin... ;)


Hugs
Jan :-*
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: northernguy on October 09, 2007, 01:08:19 am
You could always do Quebec City.  North America's only walled city and celebrating its 400th birthday next year.  It would be like visiting a foreign country for many, as they like to put on airs of being their own nation (far more so than you will find in Montreal).
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Dan J. on October 09, 2007, 10:26:22 am
We had a day trip to Quebec City during AMG 06. While we only spent the afternoon there we didn't see much of the city. It was a fascinating place & one I wouldn't mind going back to.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: Miss Philicia on October 10, 2007, 08:32:19 am

BTW, what's the crime situation like there nowadays?


Do you like kidnappings with your tequila?

ps:  And I, of course, suggested Berlin earlier
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: megasept on October 10, 2007, 04:08:18 pm
"So do you like big uncut dicks?"

And it was... he also urinated all over me twice. 

Amusingly he worked at the UN.

Hopefully, he's on the Security Council now.

 8) -megasept
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: 404error on October 10, 2007, 10:27:00 pm
So, any decision on where in Europe then?  I'm still in for Barcelona or Amsterdam...  even Prague would be a lot of fun.  Cheap beer, 24 hour pubs, good hockey, favourable exchange on the Krown...

If Canada is an option I'll say Toronto because you already did Montreal, I live in Vancouver so I don't find it very interesting and I haven't been back to T.O. in what would be 7 years by then.  I have a lot of friends and family back east that I'd get to see, plus Toronto is a huge city and there is an awful lot to do there.  Nightlife, shopping, theatre, amusement parks, concerts, some great restaurants, and of the three major Canadian cities, Torontonians are much friendlier than their Vancouver and Montreal counterparts.
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: mjmel on October 11, 2007, 06:42:09 pm
Mexico City. The more I think on it the more I like this suggestion. Catch the closing weekend of the conference and see the sights. That would be cool and the conference would be a great opener for the gathering. A very familiar focal point to begin our adventures in Mexico City.

concerning crime in Mexico City :

On Aug. 19, 2007 a male Virginian enters comments: "I have visited Mexico City 25-30 times, and I have never been a victim of a crime. I have never even lost a personal item. So I disagree with the generalization that Mexico City is a crime-infested, violent metropolis. In fact, the only time I have been mugged was in Chicago. But visitors to Mexico City do need to use common sense. Do not flash money or jewelry, know where you are, do not walk around drunk, and keep an eye on your belongings. The population of Mexico City is in the many millions, so the odds and human nature make it likely that more than a few people are dishonest or criminal. But I am convinced that they are a tiny percentage of the population."

March 25, 2007, a Canadian writes, "The Zocalo location is great for being in the old area - perhaps Zona Rosa or Central area off Reforma would be better for those that want to walk at night and be in the "big city". Depends what you came for and how you manage your time. We were out all day and into the evening - and rarely returned from our days of sightseeing and dinners until late. While there are some late night clubs etc in the historic area - they are few and far between - so taking a cab is best. As we were 2 guys - we walked everywhere safely and not ONCE did we feel threatened or did anyone say, approach or intimidate us. Police are everywhere on most major street corners.

Watch the Zona Rosa or Pink Zone - day or night - as it is full of con artists who want to strike up any conversation and lull you into a sense of security while they contemplate "how to manage you"...just like cons/gypsies or thieves in Europe or elsewhere. In the Zona Rosa this was women and men - in pairs - working on unsuspecting and trustworthy tourists. Just say NO GRACIAS - firmly and move on quickly."
(My note: Pickpockets work in pairs.)
source: tripadvisor.com
I'm done.
Mike

Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: northernguy on October 13, 2007, 12:00:31 pm
Hmm, I notice Conde Nast Traveller readers have rated Buenos Aires the #1 city to visit in the Americas.  Anybody...?  Of course Vancouver is #2 :)
http://tinyurl.com/24qyyf
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: DCGUY2007 on October 24, 2007, 02:50:07 am
Vancouver sounds nice too  :D
Title: Re: Next year in Europe!
Post by: angelofdreams on November 05, 2007, 06:39:36 pm
ooh,

AGM in UK or Spain sounds great,

let me know if you want an help Tigger