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Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: alexjones on August 08, 2012, 11:37:32 pm

Title: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: alexjones on August 08, 2012, 11:37:32 pm
I do not identify as a denialist. I'm here, I'm taking care of myself and I take a pill everyday for my REAL condition.

This clip features a co-discoverer of HIV stating that the virus can be cleared by a good immune system.
......rrrrrriiight.

This statement wasn't taken out of context as evidenced by the real time q&a. So what gives? What in the hell could he possibly be getting at? If this was just some moron on the street, this video wouldnt be worth posting. However, this guy is a 2009 Nobel prize winner.

What does he really mean!?



edited by Ann to remove denialist links.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Jeff G on August 08, 2012, 11:48:16 pm
This is not criticism but it is ... that link you provided seems pretty denialist to me .
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: GSOgymrat on August 09, 2012, 12:02:53 am
Big deal. He offers an opinion with no scientific evidence to back it up. Prove it.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: jkinatl2 on August 09, 2012, 12:05:48 am
Look at the career of Dr Peter Duesberg. Amazing work in cancer and other areas. Then descended into bat-shittery regarding HIV because of his obvious anti-gay bias.

 
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Solo_LTSurvivor on August 09, 2012, 12:25:12 am
Oh please.  This film that clip is from is like the gospel for aids dissidents.  If this thread wasn't meant to stir up controversy, the OP wouldn't have made it a point to scream that the video he linked to wasn't propaganda  ::)



edited by Ann to removed denialist links.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: jkinatl2 on August 09, 2012, 12:40:35 am
Oh please.  This film that clip is from is like the gospel for aids dissidents.  If this thread wasn't meant to stir up controversy, the OP wouldn't have made it a point to scream that the video he linked to wasn't propaganda  ::)



It's a shit ton of denialism immersed within a shit ton or denialist links.

Seriously?

Preface all you want, dude. that's some thin ice.


edited by Ann to removed denialist links.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Solo_LTSurvivor on August 09, 2012, 12:53:36 am
It's a shit ton of denialism immersed within a shit ton or denialist links.

Seriously?

Preface all you want, dude. that's some thin ice.

Totally.  If given a choice, I would've taken broccoli and carrots any day over AZT.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Mrmojorisin on August 09, 2012, 01:05:07 am
I have read about this guy...He had a good theory back in the early days of AIDS. It was probably a reasonable hypothesis. Now he just ignores all the science that has since debunked his theory..I thing he even claims some sort of conspiracy against him.  He a primo nut case..
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: spacebarsux on August 09, 2012, 01:58:25 am
Big deal. He offers an opinion with no scientific evidence to back it up. Prove it.

Precisely.

Luc Montagnier can assert that 'HIV can naturally be cleared by a healthy immune system' all he wants but in the abject absence of a single HIV infected human (since the dawn of the epidemic) corroborating his assertion, his 'opinion' carries not a shred of weight.

Interestingly, he was also embroiled in some controversy where his research studies were used as support for Homeopathy, for which he received harsh criticism from other scientists.

PS- I have a feeling her Annship is going to assign this entire thread to oblivion.  ;)

Edited to correct typos and insert PS
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: alexjones on August 09, 2012, 03:43:42 am
Precisely.

Luc Montagnier can assert that 'HIV can naturally be cleared by a healthy immune system' all he wants but in the abject absence of a single HIV infected human (since the dawn of the epidemic) corroborating his assertion, his 'opinion' carries not a shred of weight.

Interestingly, he was also embroiled in some controversy where his research studies were used as support for Homeopathy, for which he received harsh criticism from other scie
ntists.

PS- I have a feeling her Annship is going to assign this entire thread to oblivion.  ;)


Edited to correct typos and insert PS


That's the kind of response I was looking for. I should have clarified that while my link was to denialist hogwash, I was not a supporter of the idea. It just baffles me that a Nobel prize winner who would carry "clout" in the scientific cokmunity would make such a claim.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Ann on August 09, 2012, 04:34:15 am

That's the kind of response I was looking for. I should have clarified that while my link was to denialist hogwash, I was not a supporter of the idea. It just baffles me that a Nobel prize winner who would carry "clout" in the scientific cokmunity would make such a claim.

Alex, linking to denialist propaganda is expressly forbidden here and is part of the Terms of Membership you agreed to when creating your account.

Solo - you should know better than to link to that horrid film.

I hope neither of you ever link to denialist sites again - because you just may be banned from this site.

If anyone wants to know why the denialists are such dangerous people - so dangerous that we do not allow their propaganda on this site in any way, shape or form - go have a read at http://www.aidstruth.org/

Ann
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: mecch on August 09, 2012, 04:48:50 am
http://www.vulgart.be/?tag=surrealisme

Ceci n'est pas une pipe!

But really, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose. 
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: LM on August 09, 2012, 11:03:25 am
I believe he meant that, having contact with HIV, the body can fend off the virus, if the immune system is working well, avoiding infection. And I think he was led to make a mistake in the video. Regardless, I read somewhere that he regretted giving this interview.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: spacebarsux on August 10, 2012, 05:26:57 am
I believe he meant that, having contact with HIV, the body can fend off the virus, if the immune system is working well, avoiding infection. And I think he was led to make a mistake in the video. Regardless, I read somewhere that he regretted giving this interview.

I was also initially inclined to believe this was the true import of his words, but I don't think it really is, for it was already well-known that there are certain individuals, mostly of North European descent, who carry a mutated CCR5 Delta 32 gene that "inhibits the CCR5 cellular receptor used to gain access to the immune system by HIV and other diseases."

http://digitaljournal.com/article/307120#ixzz238KTAsFx

Also, there  is a small group of individuals classified as Highly Exposed Persistently Seronegative. This has been observed only in a group of uninfected HIV-negative sexworkers in Kenya and in Gambia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_disease_progression_rates

It certainly didn't seem to me like he was referring to either of these groups but to people actually infected with HIV, i.e. HIV+ people.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Rockin on August 10, 2012, 11:21:54 am
My opinion on this is the same I have about people who claim they have seen ghosts or UFO's...if it was really true everyone would know about it already. So I'll believe only when I see actual proof.

Why do some people still cling on to every or any denialist out there? Take your damn meds already!
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: LM on August 10, 2012, 01:28:54 pm
I was also initially inclined to believe this was the true import of his words, but I don't think it really is, for it was already well-known that there are certain individuals, mostly of North European descent, who carry a mutated CCR5 Delta 32 gene that "inhibits the CCR5 cellular receptor used to gain access to the immune system by HIV and other diseases."

http://digitaljournal.com/article/307120#ixzz238KTAsFx

Also, there  is a small group of individuals classified as Highly Exposed Persistently Seronegative. This has been observed only in a group of uninfected HIV-negative sexworkers in Kenya and in Gambia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_disease_progression_rates

It certainly didn't seem to me like he was referring to either of these groups but to people actually infected with HIV, i.e. HIV+ people.

No, I'm not talking about these. We know that it's difficult to transmit HIV, even with a high viral load. For example, if I have unprotected sex with someone, it's unlikely that person will get infected. However, he/she will get in contact with the virus. So yeah, maybe a person with a immune system working very well will avoid the infection, so possibly that's what he meant. But who knows.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: mecch on August 10, 2012, 04:50:54 pm
So yeah, maybe a person with a immune system working very well will avoid the infection, so possibly that's what he meant. But who knows.

Who knows and who cares about thinking that is entirely conjecture. 

I do think that bodies have defenses that prevent HIV contact from turning into infection.  I read something about these mechanisms when I first seroconverted. 

But there is no guarantee, right, and we can't anticipate when its functioning and not, anyhow. 

I've "warded off" virus sometimes and other times I haven't.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: drewm on August 10, 2012, 05:21:05 pm
DENIALISM IS DENIALISM REGARDLESS OF HOW IT IS PACKAGED


DENIALISM = DEATH
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: wolfter on August 10, 2012, 05:44:38 pm
If anecdotal stories tell the entire truth, then I assure you all that a nice glass of Sutter Home White Zin is the true cure.  I don't buy the hogwash about this virus destroying the body.  Just keep those buggers inebriated and they can't cause any harm.   :o

It's only when you go off the wine that problems arise.  Nasty little fuckers when they also have a hangover.  :)

Wolfie
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: LM on August 10, 2012, 08:34:57 pm
Who knows and who cares about thinking that is entirely conjecture. 

I do think that bodies have defenses that prevent HIV contact from turning into infection.  I read something about these mechanisms when I first seroconverted. 

But there is no guarantee, right, and we can't anticipate when its functioning and not, anyhow. 

I've "warded off" virus sometimes and other times I haven't.

Yup, just a way of reasoning as to why a famous HIV researcher would say such a thing.
Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Buckmark on August 10, 2012, 10:17:14 pm
Geez, at this point, this sure seems to be a denialist post.

Oh, and the OP has adopted the moniker "alex jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio_host%29)", who is a well known conspiracy theorist here in the US.  Alex talks about many things that he believes are conspiracies, including a few thoughts on HIV.  In fact, Alex hails from right here in Austin, Texas.

 ::)

Enough, don't you think?

Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: jkinatl2 on August 10, 2012, 10:22:51 pm
Geez, at this point, this sure seems to be a denialist post.

Oh, and the OP has adopted the moniker "alex jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio_host%29)", who is a well known conspiracy theorist here in the US.  Alex talks about many things that he believes are conspiracies, including a few thoughts on HIV.  In fact, Alex hails from right here in Austin, Texas.

 ::)

Enough, don't you think?



Good catch!

Title: Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
Post by: Rockin on August 11, 2012, 02:40:55 am
Some people also cling to the idea that man never landed on the Moon...I wonder what they are saying now about the robot in Mars.