POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Joe K on March 01, 2011, 07:22:06 pm
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As witnessed in a few other threads, every time the subject comes up, of whether anything good comes from being poz, draws heated discussion. The threads usually end badly and that is because many of us see HIV very differently, as in, nothing good can come from it. So I am going to ask readers to suspend their opinions, just for a moment to consider the following.
One of the main reasons that I thrive with HIV, is because I am unwilling to give it anything more than what it absolutely demands from me. I do not know how to say this any plainer, but HIV is a virus, a disease and it does not think, reason or feel. Its entire life mission, if given the chance is to kill you. It holds no power, other than the power that you give it and it is why I constantly encourage people to see their life, in terms of what you have done in SPITE of HIV. To me, that is what matters, because then you are retaining control and with HIV, control is everything. We take antivirals to control the disease, because it is, well, a disease.
However, if you insist on claiming that HIV has some magical properties, or that a virus is capable of running your life, I cannot help you, because you cannot reason with a disease. Most probably, you will be doomed to a life where every little sniffle, sends you into a death spiral. You will be allowing a virus to dictate what you do, or do not do and while that means you share no blame, you also forgo any sense of personal enrichment. That last point is paramount, because if you allow HIV to run your life, then you remove your ability to choose and when you lose that, not much is left.
Instead, what I would ask you to consider is that we all possess great potential for personal growth. Becoming poz is a major life altering event and I have never claimed it to be anything less. Such events test us to our core, but through it all, we are always in control, unless we choose to give that control away. This is why I say that nothing good comes from having HIV. It cannot, because it is not able to directly influence how you see yourself, unless you allow it.
If you truly believe that HIV can overtly influence your life, then your battle may already be lost. You are giving up your chance to be content, by insisting that HIV actually cares about you, when its only goal in life, is to kill you. Why would you give your control away to a simple virus? Again, you have given your control away to a disease and there is nothing that anyone can say to help you.
However, if you are willing to consider that people have great potential for growth, then you reclaim your life. By facing your infection and insisting that it not be an impediment in your life, is a victory of indescribable proportions. When you can look inside you and know that you will survive and eventually thrive, in spite of HIV, you will have learned one of the most valuable lessons in life: One person can make a difference and that person is you.
Any good to come from HIV, is what comes from you. If you choose to allow yourself to be defined by HIV, then what do you have left? If instead, you concentrate on how you are adjusting to your new status and recognize that it is you, who is adjusting to being poz, then every step you take will reinforce to you, that you are in control, as much as HIV will allow, but no more than it absolutely demands. That is how you build self confidence and realize that you always have choices. It is how you learn to adjust your life, as events dictate, without crushing your spirit or draining your soul.
I know that some will think I am splitting hairs, in terms of why does it matter if posters want to ascribe good to HIV? It matters because you are insisting on giving HIV the credit for moving on, rather than where it belongs, with you. It is refusing to understand that HIV will never be more than a disease. It will never have any power over you, other than what it absolutely demands or what you willingly give it. It involves seeing the power that we each possess to dictate our future and realizing that you can never give the power of choice away.
It involves personal growth, by adjusting to your status and allowing yourself to live your dreams, not to be limited by a disease. It involves letting go of the pain that being poz has caused you, to say that you are tired of the hurt and that you have the power to make that hurt go away. It involves realizing that everything you need, to live a meaningful life, is already there: inside of you. It involves great introspection in what you want from life and then harnessing whatever resources are necessary, to attain that life. It involves celebrating all that you are and going from there, knowing that your future is always safest, within your own hands.
It involves asking one very simple question: Who’s in control, HIV or you?
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What can I say.
VERY, VERY INSPIRATIONAL !!!
Thank you so much.
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Well said, Joe.
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It's amazing how a few words can change an entire meaning. In spite of vs because of!
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No Shit Joe ;D "Can We All Just Get Along" Rodney King 1993, it doesn't matter how one got infected, and the way they became HIV, it doesn't make anyone any better than anyone else, we all have this disease, and if nothing else, we all have that one thing in common ;)
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It involves personal growth, by adjusting to your status and allowing yourself to live your dreams, not to be limited by a disease. It involves letting go of the pain that being poz has caused you, to say that you are tired of the hurt and that you have the power to make that hurt go away. It involves realizing that everything you need, to live a meaningful life, is already there: inside of you. It involves great introspection in what you want from life and then harnessing whatever resources are necessary, to attain that life. It involves celebrating all that you are and going from there, knowing that your future is always safest, within your own hands.
Exactly what the newly diagnosed have been saying all along. Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did. Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS. In the last few weeks I have read nothing but judgement from you guys towards the newly diagnosed and it sucks.
And this little diddy here was even thrown in:
Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.
Just very fucking nice. Can you explain this Joe? Do you share this line of thought? As you can probably tell I take this as directly pointed at me. It was just another low ball tactic once again used to make another member feel bad. What I find telling is when you guys are called on this crap you cry foul.
This arguement is rubbish, nothing more than a strawman really... which has been entertained for nothing more to cause seperation on the forums.
So go ahead, attack us for our mode of infection and tell us we are a danger to the cause. While you guys spew this I'll continue viewing much of what is said as nothing more than poison.
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And this little diddy here was even thrown in:
Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.
skeebo...meh where did you see this, was it posted somewhere? who and why would someone do THIS
or maybe I'm just confused, I mean I already got picked on for telling about my past Drug addiction ans how I got AIDS that way, maybe I should have just kept my big month shut, but man, I never saw that coming, guess I was just too slow on the up take here ??? well no matter, maybe I should just stay out of the Living forums form now on, I'm sick of this SHIT :-[
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skeebo...meh where did you see this, was it posted somewhere? who and why would someone do THIS
or maybe I'm just confused, I mean I already got picked on for telling about my past Drug addiction ans how I got AIDS that way, maybe I should have just kept my big month shut, but man, I never saw that coming, guess I was just too slow on the up take here ???
It was written in one of the many US against Them threads manufactured as of late. I saw what happened to you in the other thread. I can't believe I was surprised by it though... sad.
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Thanks for using that wide brush to paint all LTS. Opinions are not the same as judgments and I find it quite humerous that you're doing the exact thing with this post that you're accusing US of doing. I didn't find one offensive comment in this thread.
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"Can We All Just Get Along" Rodney King 1993 ???
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Thanks for using that wide brush to paint all LTS. Opinions are not the same as judgments and I find it quite humerous that you're doing the exact thing with this post that you're accusing US of doing. I didn't find one offensive comment in this thread.
Opinions and judgements can be held in the same breath so what's your point? While it doesn't matter to me, I am glad you did not find my post offensive either. Leave my Humerus out of this.
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Exactly what the newly diagnosed have been saying all along. Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did. Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS. In the last few weeks I have read nothing but judgement from you guys towards the newly diagnosed and it sucks.
And this little diddy here was even thrown in:
Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.
Just very fucking nice. Can you explain this Joe? Do you share this line of thought? As you can probably tell I take this as directly pointed at me. It was just another low ball tactic once again used to make another member feel bad. What I find telling is when you guys are called on this crap you cry foul.
This arguement is rubbish, nothing more than a strawman really... which has been entertained for nothing more to cause seperation on the forums.
So go ahead, attack us for our mode of infection and tell us we are a danger to the cause. While you guys spew this I'll continue viewing much of what is said as nothing more than poison.
I just want to support what was said here. This has been said all along by newbies but now it's "inspirational" LOL.
Edited to add that I'm not bashing what Joe said and agree with it.
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Humorous. Thanks for the correction. Even though you won't care, I quite often have typos. I lost my eyesight a couple of years ago and have regained enough to function, but still have trouble focusing.
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I'm confused with what is going on here. Thomas/skeebo highlighted a passage
Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.
... and I don't see it in Joe's opening thread post. Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?
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Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did. Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS.
When have I ever said this? Don't say you were not referring to me because you clearly are.
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Sharing the most intimate details about you past life or present, in this forum is a big fat no, no, someone will always take that and run with it, and use it against you every fucking time or change they get, I should have know better than this, especially in the living with forums ??? hey, you live and you learn :)
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I'm confused with what is going on here. Thomas/skeebo highlighted a passage
Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.
... and I don't see it in Joe's opening thread post. Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?
You, I'm still confused, and don't understand......I mean did somebody drop a house on someone's sister ;D
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Exactly what the newly diagnosed have been saying all along. Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did. Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS. In the last few weeks I have read nothing but judgement from you guys towards the newly diagnosed and it sucks.
And this little diddy here was even thrown in:
Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.
Just very fucking nice. Can you explain this Joe? Do you share this line of thought? As you can probably tell I take this as directly pointed at me. It was just another low ball tactic once again used to make another member feel bad. What I find telling is when you guys are called on this crap you cry foul.
This arguement is rubbish, nothing more than a strawman really... which has been entertained for nothing more to cause seperation on the forums.
So go ahead, attack us for our mode of infection and tell us we are a danger to the cause. While you guys spew this I'll continue viewing much of what is said as nothing more than poison.
Poison? Is that how you see my post? Really? I thought you knew me better than that, but apparently not. I'm sorry you were hurt in another thread, but what does that have to do with mine? I am not passing judgment on anyone, only offering my perspective that has served me well over the years. To say I am disappointed, that you would use my post, to attack others, would be an understatement. I really expected better from you. My mistake.
edited to add: And with that, I am leaving this thread to others, as I do not have the patience to withstand repeated attacks on my posts.
further edited to add: Once I calm down, I will respond to some of the comments here as I believe it is an issue worth discussing.
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To say I am disappointed, that you would use my post, to attack others, would be an understatement. I really expected better from you. My mistake.
It is a mistake, a very big one. I'm not attacking anyone, I am defending my stance on an extremely offensive post. And it's not the first Joe. YOU simply telling us that we "ascribe" to HIV being something good is, well rather offensive. I am sorry you don't see it. I am sorry you can't understand when a newbie has no other choice but to keep a positive attitude and move on because life entails it. At times it has seemed like my fucking world is crashing in around me and I have no other choice than to move forward otherwise my electric gets cut off. Do you think I want HIV on top of all this? Do you think I use HIV as some kind of motivating factor to say, "it's all gonna be alright because I got HIV?". I know you don't so why keep implying it?
I learned something that should have been so obvious to me long ago after watching my mother take her last breath in hospice. As I walked outside and watched with tears streaming down my face, the cars on the overpass in front of me kept flowing. The most beautiful person I had ever known had her world just stop spinning and everyone else didn't care. My pain was my own.. As a person who has only lived with this disease for going on 6 years, my world did not stop even through the stumbles and pitfalls encountered since. I can only say, what little positive attitude I have these days should really be called survival mode. I admit I have to put HIV on the backburner sometimes because I have this little thing called life pushing me to worry about other things. Whether it's my impending separation from my wife or my daughter losing her baby the day before yesterday I can't stop. As bad as I want to fall apart in all this, HIV included.... I just simply can't.
Simply put, whether it's HIV, divorce, death, or my dog running away... I have to still wake up and punch in on time.
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Uh, so wait a minute Thomas. Your first post in this thread reprimands Joe for what you view as his saying something that was, in your view, never stated -- you then ascribe that to all LTSers and then insult them en masse. Then to make matters worse, you ascribe something to Joe from another entirely separate thread (cleverly without a link) when, in fact, it was something said by an entirely different poster.
Sorry sugar, but that stinks to high heaven. Not to mention I asked you to clarify this BS an hour an half ago and during that time you continued to hover on the thread without doing so.
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You said "Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?"
Sorry, I didn't realize that someone was me. Next time PM me if you want a response or simply put my name in there somewhere.
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You said "Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?"
Sorry, I didn't realize that someone was me. Next time PM me if you want a response or simply put my name in there somewhere.
I specifically mentioned you in my post -- if that's not clear enough for you then I don't know what to say.
Care to comment on referencing another post in a separate thread by an entirely different poster and then insinuating here that Joe said it, now that I have your most gracious attention?
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Asking Joe if he agrees with it is not insinuating that he said it. If that's how you read it I can't help you buddy.... that's clearly a comprehension problem.
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... rrrrrrrrrriiight
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http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103481/shenanigans
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skeebo...meh where did you see this, was it posted somewhere? who and why would someone do THIS
or maybe I'm just confused, I mean I already got picked on for telling about my past Drug addiction ans how I got AIDS that way, maybe I should have just kept my big month shut, but man, I never saw that coming, guess I was just too slow on the up take here ??? well no matter, maybe I should just stay out of the Living forums form now on, I'm sick of this SHIT :-[
Very rich of you to be playing victim for bullshit YOU started with me in the first place.
And WTF is up with you people taking quotes from other threads and trying to instigate some fight in what was started a s a well meaning thread?
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It is a mistake, a very big one. I'm not attacking anyone, I am defending my stance on an extremely offensive post. And it's not the first Joe. YOU simply telling us that we "ascribe" to HIV being something good is, well rather offensive. I am sorry you don't see it. I am sorry you can't understand when a newbie has no other choice but to keep a positive attitude and move on because life entails it. At times it has seemed like my fucking world is crashing in around me and I have no other choice than to move forward otherwise my electric gets cut off. Do you think I want HIV on top of all this? Do you think I use HIV as some kind of motivating factor to say, "it's all gonna be alright because I got HIV?". I know you don't so why keep implying it?
I learned something that should have been so obvious to me long ago after watching my mother take her last breath in hospice. As I walked outside and watched with tears streaming down my face, the cars on the overpass in front of me kept flowing. The most beautiful person I had ever known had her world just stop spinning and everyone else didn't care. My pain was my own.. As a person who has only lived with this disease for going on 6 years, my world did not stop even through the stumbles and pitfalls encountered since. I can only say, what little positive attitude I have these days should really be called survival mode. I admit I have to put HIV on the backburner sometimes because I have this little thing called life pushing me to worry about other things. Whether it's my impending separation from my wife or my daughter losing her baby the day before yesterday I can't stop. As bad as I want to fall apart in all this, HIV included.... I just simply can't.
Simply put, whether it's HIV, divorce, death, or my dog running away... I have to still wake up and punch in on time.
I don't know how to respond to you, not because of what you said, but rather how you chose to say it. If you read my post as being insulting, then I suggest that this post is of no interest to you. However, there are some newly infected, who are very confused and afraid of being poz and my goal is to reach them and present some food for thought. If you look at my posting history, you will find it filled with either supportive posts, or inane drivel and that is always your right. What I ask you not to do, is to put words into my mouth, or worse, ascribe the words of another to me. How does that contribute to the intent of this thread?
I'm real sorry you are having a hard time right now and if my post offended you, I apologize. But please do not take it out on me. I make posts like these, because I know they matter to certain readers and sometimes they help alter their perception of what living with HIV means. I write in support of thriving with HIV and while I may not always strike the right tone in writing, I'm usually pretty good on getting to the meat of an issue.
I also find it very interesting, that even with the different approaches, you and I are essentially saying the same thing. That somehow, through personal intestinal fortitude, we are compelled to move on and live. I would ask, that when you read my posts, you look for my overall intent, rather than focusing on a couple of words. As I always say, I don't know everything and I will never tell you how to live. I write what I know and I know that what I write makes a difference... if only for a few.
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Very rich of you to be playing victim for bullshit YOU started with me in the first place.
And WTF is up with you people taking quotes from other threads and trying to instigate some fight in what was started a s a well meaning thread?
Rich oh really now, I thought your tooth was out, isn't this the end, I sure hope so.....unless you wanna go there again with me....we can go there if that's the way you wanna play THIS, but I think NOT, I got better things to do with my time dear......I already apologized to you in the own thread, did you not get the memo on this, are you don't know how to accept it and move on, I'm over it it's history to me, I was just venting, sorry you took this the wrong way...........can we all get along? can we? I'm willing ;)
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Rich oh really now, I thought your tooth was out, isn't this the end, I sure hope so.....unless you wanna go there again with me....we can go there if that's the way you wanna play THIS, but I think NOT, I got better things to do with my time dear......
You started this - now KNOCK IT OFF. Like right the fuck now.
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You started this - now KNOCK IT OFF. Like right the fuck now.
didn't you even read what I wrote above, I'm over it, I'll stop, if you will....dude chill out man, it's all good
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Everyone needs to STOP right now! Or there are going to be some Time Outs handed out and the thread will get locked.
If you can't put something forward in an affirmative way then don't bother.
Thanks for your cooperation before this thread unnecessarily goes further south.
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Jeepers--thread goes to hell in a handbasket and I had NOTHING to do with it? ;)
Hang in there Skeeb.
Joe--
"Any good to come from HIV, is what comes from you. If you choose to allow yourself to be defined by HIV, then what do you have left? If instead, you concentrate on how you are adjusting to your new status and recognize that it is you, who is adjusting to being poz, then every step you take will reinforce to you, that you are in control, as much as HIV will allow, but no more than it absolutely demands. That is how you build self confidence and realize that you always have choices. It is how you learn to adjust your life, as events dictate, without crushing your spirit or draining your soul."
I'm an existentialist and not suprisingly, a Buddhist as well. To me 'control' is an illusion ;) However what you offer here is a uniquely important bit of advice and veiw of the relationship one might have with HIV. This thought process can take time and introspection to arrive at fully, and continued introspection to maintain. My guess is that's why it may be difficult for some to see this as valid--but still--in my opinion--great advice.
Many of us grew in our life with HIV in a series of stages--some perceptable--some not. When I was closer to my time of diagnosis than I am now, there was a time where I DID let HIV define me--good and bad--as a way of 'taking power' over it. Yes it was most likely an ego-based coping mechanism and some might not even understand it--but like many crutches, it helped for a time when I needed it.
As far as bashing each other about for HOW we got HIV--yeah that's so f'n sad, hypocritical and unhealthy and it needs to stop. While inserting issues from one thread into another is considered bad forum form, it may be in this instance an outcome from the I-got-my-HIV-the-"normal-way-and-you're-a-freak-because-of-how-you-got-HIV, BS. I've been called everything here from DL-fag, junkie, Str8?, closet queen etc etc etc.
How can we talk to each other about growing emotionally, spiritually, intellectually etc with HIV all whilst we slam each other with the same stigma that society throws at each of us?
Seriously--do we need to start a new forum heading for "Bad mouthing bitter bitching" so we can just keep the shit confined in one place?
Fed up-
Marco
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All's fair in love and war.
In some situations, such as when you are in love or waging war, you are allowed to be deceitful in order to get what you want. (Often said as an excuse for deception.) I cheated on the entrance exam, but I really want to get into that school, and all's fair in love and war. To get Judy to go out with him, Bob lied and told her that her boyfriend was seeing another woman. All's fair in love and war.
Ever watch Jerry Springer? besides we've all kissed and made up with each other already ;D
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All's fair in love and war.
In some situations, such as when you are in love or waging war, you are allowed to be deceitful in order to get what you want. (Often said as an excuse for deception.) I cheated on the entrance exam, but I really want to get into that school, and all's fair in love and war. To get Judy to go out with him, Bob lied and told her that her boyfriend was seeing another woman. All's fair in love and war.
Ever watch Jerry Springer? besides we've all kissed and made up with each other already ;D
Happy for all of you then. So does this mean we can keep from doing it in the future, so that this forum can be a place where people living with HIV, regardless of mode of transmission can feel as though they can openly discuss the issues they need to discuss in hopes of learning how to live with this disease?
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Happy for all of you then. So does this mean we can keep from doing it in the future, so that this forum can be a place where people living with HIV, regardless of mode of transmission can feel as though they can openly discuss the issues they need to discuss in hopes of learning how to live with this disease?
Humm, let me see here, oh wait, I'm not in control, but the real question here is Who's In Control?
interesting point Marco, I sure hope so, I want world peace, cheaper Meds and gas prices, but that doesn't mean I'm going them...however I still have HOPE :)
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Fed up-
Marco
Me too.
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Very well said Marco.
Joe, My apologies to you for using your thread as an opportunity to bring out some of my current frustrations about the subject matter. The quote from another thread I used above came from a similar thread regarding the same topic. I think what peeved me most is that most of you all, who I had the utmost respect for, read this post and never once corrected the author for what I and others have deemed as highly inappropriate. It's also why I have said in the other thread regarding this same issue that you guys have a tendency to back each other up beyond a fault.
And let's be honest here, the quote above should have never been ignored by anyone. It was pure nastiness, but yet you guys commented how compassionate he was shortly after because I called him on his crap.
So yeah, it was a lingering issue for me and it was addressed wrong on my part. I asked if you agreed with his line of thinking because you were the first to comment after he posted his up the ass and no empathy for gays remark. It seems to me, these type of comments are totally acceptable by both you and others here and this is just as wrong as my committing poor forum etiquette by quoting from another thread......
Where does this leave us? After rereading what I've written above, I see a half ass apology supported by a bunch of excuses on my part. But, let's face it-- the comment itself was lame and should have been addressed by not just myself but by everyone positive who read it.
I'm just as fed up as everyone else.
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I know several of us didn't see the referenced comment on another thread. It was asked but not answered. I absolutely would have defended whoever was attcked in this manner. For me, I don't give a shit how someone was infected! I led a pretty conservative gay lifestyle while the majority of my friends did the bath houses, reststops, and any other sexual encounter that fancied them. That didn't make them more or less deserving of this illness.
Now can we enjoy another a nice glass of white zin and toast to ourselves?
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I know several of us didn't see the referenced comment on another thread. It was asked but not answered. I absolutely would have defended whoever was attcked in this manner. For me, I don't give a shit how someone was infected! I led a pretty conservative gay lifestyle while the majority of my friends did the bath houses, reststops, and any other sexual encounter that fancied them. That didn't make them more or less deserving of this illness.
Now can we enjoy another a nice glass of white zin and toast to ourselves?
Well, I'm fresh outta white Zin, finished that off last night, now I'm reaching for my bottle of LORAZEPAM
so I can get the nerve to get myself outta the house, and go pay the Rent ,so I can deal with the RUDE people @ my local Walmart .."aint nothing going on but the RENT" ;D
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Very well said Marco.
Joe, My apologies to you for using your thread as an opportunity to bring out some of my current frustrations about the subject matter. The quote from another thread I used above came from a similar thread regarding the same topic. I think what peeved me most is that most of you all, who I had the utmost respect for, read this post and never once corrected the author for what I and others have deemed as highly inappropriate. It's also why I have said in the other thread regarding this same issue that you guys have a tendency to back each other up beyond a fault.
And let's be honest here, the quote above should have never been ignored by anyone. It was pure nastiness, but yet you guys commented how compassionate he was shortly after because I called him on his crap.
So yeah, it was a lingering issue for me and it was addressed wrong on my part. I asked if you agreed with his line of thinking because you were the first to comment after he posted his up the ass and no empathy for gays remark. It seems to me, these type of comments are totally acceptable by both you and others here and this is just as wrong as my committing poor forum etiquette by quoting from another thread......
Where does this leave us? After rereading what I've written above, I see a half ass apology supported by a bunch of excuses on my part. But, let's face it-- the comment itself was lame and should have been addressed by not just myself but by everyone positive who read it.
I'm just as fed up as everyone else.
I agree that the comment should have been addressed, in the thread that generated the comment, or in a thread of your own. As I read your words, you paint with a very broad brush, interspersing comments directed at me. I am left wondering how I can possibly respond to the multiple issues you mention. So I am not going to try, because let's be honest here, you broadsided me and are still doing it, with your response that somehow I am also at fault for what another poster wrote. I'm sorry I missed the comment when it was first posted, as I would have said something, but I just missed it. However, for you to take your anger, from that thread and to redirect it, against me, is simply beyond the pail and I don't like to play mind fuck. So I will not. Over and outta here.
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I know several of us didn't see the referenced comment on another thread. It was asked but not answered. I absolutely would have defended whoever was attcked in this manner. For me, I don't give a shit how someone was infected! I led a pretty conservative gay lifestyle while the majority of my friends did the bath houses, reststops, and any other sexual encounter that fancied them. That didn't make them more or less deserving of this illness.
Now can we enjoy another a nice glass of white zin and toast to ourselves?
Hmmm.. is this the place where I confess that I'm just 'trendy' enough to have recently converted a basement room into a wine 'closet'? ;) 200 bottle storage capacity as well as space for my single malt collection and home brews.
Now a GOOD white zin...? Sounds like interesting research I should begin immediately!
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Let me assist you with your search. This is my absolute favorite; http://www.sutterhome.com/w_wz.php
Now, if they'd just produce it in box form, I could die a happy man.....
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Joe and skeebo.....WHERE MY LORAZEPAM ??? you guys are killing me here ???
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Let me assist you with your search. This is my absolute favorite; http://www.sutterhome.com/w_wz.php
Now, if they'd just produce it in box form, I could die a happy man.....
Appologies for continued thread hijack:
Now I am FAR from well-versed in whites, but since you've made a recommendation for me--I'll point you toward my favorite white: it's from Antinori, Campogrande Orvieto. 2009 version is a blend of Procanico, Grechetto, Verdello, Drupeggio & Malvasia .
Inexpensive-comparatively, and a nice 'go-to' white for me ;D
Now...Back to our regularly scheduled argument.
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Is it just me or did things here get way too far out of control for a seemingly innocuous posting about having some measure of control over your life? There was nothing mean or mean spirited about the original posting, but then all of a sudden it gets hijacked and makes a screaming left turn into darkness. With Screaming being the operative word here.
I'm not too sure what the quote from an entirely different thread has to do with this thread either. I went back and read that thread, and it didn't seem to call out anyone specifically, rather it had to do with a behavior. I can agree with the sentiment about one who slams a certain group of people for their behavior while participating in in that behavior. (Remember Ted Haggard?) Since the quote was aimed at no specific person, for someone to get that pissed off about it can only lead to the conclusion that they are indeed doing this, otherwise why would it be upsetting? Nor do I understand the kvetching about an "Us VS Them" mentality. I thought we were all in this together, that method of infection was irrelevant to the situation. Apparently not. WTF is up with all the negativity towards those are LTS?
This isn't LIVING with HIV. It's WALLOWING in it.
CaptCarl
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It seems there is a lot of mis-directed anger in the Living With Forum nowadays. I have no idea what is causing this, but would like to come to a better understanding about it.
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Since the quote was aimed at no specific person, for someone to get that pissed off about it can only lead to the conclusion that they are indeed doing this, otherwise why would it be upsetting?
LOL wrong, but whatever. I love to see who exactly supports such words here and I'm quite surprised you are one of them. So let me follow with your line of thinking--- perhaps he made the comment due to his animosity towards straights. I mean it's not the first time.
And trust many people were upset by it.
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It seems there is a lot of mis-directed anger in the Living With Forum nowadays. I have no idea what is causing this, but would like to come to a better understanding about it.
I'm not sure what's up either, Alan. Like I mentioned to you, I take a break from the forums every few days and tend to miss things.
As for HIV, I try to not let it control me, which is much easier now than in the first few months after diagnosis. HIV, the virus itself, has not improved my life. The diagnosis, knowing what the virus can do, has given me motivation and reasons to improve and / or change my life. Little things, such as drinking less, to bigger things like going back to school for an additional degree are both directly related to my diagnosis. Knowing how dependent I am on insurance prompted me to make myself more 'marketable' to employers by getting the degree.
I like to think that I'm in control of my life (as much as anybody ever is), but I'm also mindful of what this virus can do to me.
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Knowing how dependent I am on insurance prompted me to make myself more 'marketable' to employers by getting the degree.
I like to think that I'm in control of my life (as much as anybody ever is), but I'm also mindful of what this virus can do to me.
HIV is connected to money and I often think about HIV like I think about rent and savings accounts - pain in the ass realities you have to deal with.
I guess as long as you have a job that's good enough for you and also provides a living, you still have the control.
I could freak out and break down without a job and a cozy place to live. I suppose living in Switzerland I'll always have medical care. Theres much more to life than disease prevention. As long as I keep anxiety to a manageable level, I don't think anything controls me. But you gotta bring home the bacon thats for sure.
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LOL wrong, but whatever. I love to see who exactly supports such words here and I'm quite surprised you are one of them. So let me follow with your line of thinking--- perhaps he made the comment due to his animosity towards straights. I mean it's not the first time.
And trust many people were upset by it.
My line of thinking? Actually, no.
So please allow me to clarify my line of thought about this:
Joe started a thread that was well thought out. Considerately worded, and had an inspirational tone to it. For some reason, you chose to respond in a manner which I viewed as hostile. Also, you brought in a qoute from another thread, that was posted by someone else, and had no relevance whatsoever to the thread you brought it into, and it all pretty much went downhill from there. I am unsure as to the motives that caused you to do this. Did you intentionally do this to wreck a perfectly good thread?
As I stated, I wondered why you took the quote so personally, when it was clearly not aimed at anyone in particular. Were you in fact doing the very thing that the quote points out? If not, then why the rage over it? All you have done here is to draw attention to yourself, making yourself look guilty. The point that was being made in the quote was about Hypocrisy. If indeed you, (or anyone) has condemmned a group of people for their behavior while simultaneoulsy engaging in that behavior, that is hypocrisy. Just like Ted Haggard railing against gays, all the while he's doing crystal meth and having sex with male prostitutes.
You ask me if I support "these words". If someone is being a hypocrite, then yes, I support them. When a person is being hypocritical, they should be called on it. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I'm comfortable with that.
I hope this clears up what my line of thought is as opposed to what you think it was.
CaptCarl
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HIV is connected to money and I often think about HIV like I think about rent and savings accounts - pain in the ass realities you have to deal with.
I guess as long as you have a job that's good enough for you and also provides a living, you still have the control.
I could freak out and break down without a job and a cozy place to live. I suppose living in Switzerland I'll always have medical care. Theres much more to life than disease prevention. As long as I keep anxiety to a manageable level, I don't think anything controls me. But you gotta bring home the bacon thats for sure.
"Aint Nothing going on but RENT" that's all I worry about, then Meds, food lights and gas, gas in my truck
and other household stuff each month, other than that, I'm happy, and AIDS doesn't control my life, it's only a stinking fucked up virus, that I've lived with almost half my adult life ;)
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LOL wrong, but whatever. I love to see who exactly supports such words here and I'm quite surprised you are one of them. So let me follow with your line of thinking--- perhaps he made the comment due to his animosity towards straights. I mean it's not the first time.
And trust many people were upset by it.
If people were upset about that comment, then why didn't they start a thread to discuss it? Please tell me, how interjecting that comment, contributed anything to my thread, because I cannot see it. Since I missed the referenced comment the first time, I will not comment on whether it was appropriate or not, because it has been taken out of context. That being said, I have not and will never support degrading another member, for any reason. However, I also will not condemn a comment, made by another member, who is not present in the discussion. To me, that is seeking retribution by proxy and it's just not fair or necessary.
I am responsible for my words alone and for you to even suggest, that I judge people based on their route of infection... I am at a loss for words. I've been here for 9 years and I just learned how denb45 became infected, as if that ever would have mattered. We don't have to all get along, but we do have to respect each other and that is not what happened in this thread, by more than one poster.
Seriously, folks need to chill and start looking at what we share, rather than lines to form divisions. The forum has tools to discuss sensitive issues, that may not be appropriate in a thread. Please use those tools to settle disputes, so we can get back to what we do best. We can always do better, but we remain human and friends respect friends, settle their disputes and move on. We may all benefit, if maybe we spent more time really "reading" posts, for actual content, rather than inferring things that are never said. It hurts my brain when that happens.
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perhaps he made the comment due to his animosity towards straights. I mean it's not the first time.
And trust many people were upset by it.
Joe's animosity towards straights? If that's what you mean then you should produce evidence in the form of links to posts or fuck off. Joe is many things but a hater isn't one of them.
MtD
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My line of thinking? Actually, no.
So please allow me to clarify my line of thought about this:
I am glad you did. You're way off base dude and full of shit to boot.
Joe's animosity towards straights? If that's what you mean then you should produce evidence in the form of links to posts or fuck off. Joe is many things but a hater isn't one of them.
MtD
Jon's actually. Get it right if your going to comment, in the mean time fuck off.
If people were upset about that comment, then why didn't they start a thread to discuss it? Please tell me, how interjecting that comment, contributed anything to my thread, because I cannot see it. Since I missed the referenced comment the first time, I will not comment on whether it was appropriate or not, because it has been taken out of context. That being said, I have not and will never support degrading another member, for any reason. However, I also will not condemn a comment, made by another member, who is not present in the discussion. To me, that is seeking retribution by proxy and it's just not fair or necessary.
Why do you think they wouldn't start a thread Joe?
This subject has been talked about previously under different headings. What was it? Positive positive... different opinion... a different perspective... and now Who's in Control... it's all the same damn thing. Anyone who showed a different opinion in those threads got blasted. What? Did you not see that too? When you guys were calling on the chap as being compassionate and shitting gold I said otherwise then...
I admit, the way I executed this was in extreme poor taste. That comment hurt to high hell. If I made a separate thread I know, either way, the result would have been the same. So... at this point you guys have a go at me, my back is strong.
I am not all that proud though, trust me. It bothers me to even have to go here...
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If people were upset about that comment, then why didn't they start a thread to discuss it?
Any time someone starts a thread to discuss previous drama it devolves into sad infighting instead of actual adult discussion. This one's doing okay. As for this thread it is about number 4 in a line of threads with similar subject matter, although in an interesting turn of events you have now restated basically exactly what has been stated by a number of people who you've been disagreeing with for going on a week or two. I'm not sure if you're actually aware of this and I don't think you wrote it in order to put it in your own words.
In the last month or so I've gotten plenty of "You're not welcome here" which is kind of ironic considering what these forums are intended for. I'll admit I can be argumentative, stubborn, wrong and a host of other human flaws but I do make attempts to mediate arguments or at least point out where the disagreements lie when I'm not directly involved. I do my best to steer clear of personal attacks although sometimes even that gets the better of me.
I would like to see less of the "I know them so I'll stick up for them regardless of what they're saying" and more "Well argument X has merit" even if it's being voiced by someone you don't necessarily care for. I'll go ahead and start my stop watch to wait for this fairly innocuous post to have a scorched earth campaign coming down on it, because sadly the forums have become predictable that way.
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Joe's animosity towards straights?
but it does to you guys, the wise LTS. In the last few weeks I have read nothing but judgement from you guys towards the newly diagnosed and it sucks.
And this little diddy here was even thrown in:
Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV./color]
Just very fucking nice. Can you explain this Joe? Do you share this line of thought?
because many of us see HIV very differently, as in, nothing good can come from it.
here's a link to the elusive referenced comment that Skeebo used in discussing how there seems to be some animosity lately from part of the "LTS crowd" towards the newer diagnosed. Since Joe seemed to be speaking for that same group in this thread, Skeebo did not accuse Joe of disliking straights; but asked if he held the same opinion as the member he quoted.
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=36617.msg455446#msg455446
Personally, I don't think this was the best thread to debate this issue (even if it does seem to be yet another thread in a series about the idea of looking for the good in life after having gotten HIV - which some newer members initially termed as finding the good from having gotten HIV); but I do agree with Skeebo that there is a problem of rudeness that is shown towards many new members and the newer diagnosed
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Thank you for posting the link. I didn't know where that quote came from.
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but I do agree with Skeebo that there is a problem of rudeness that is shown towards many new members and the newer diagnosed
This simply is not true and I could be wrong, but I don't think Skeebo would agree with you. This is a meme you and a couple of others like to perpetuate publicly and sadly, privately.
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I am glad you did. You're way off base dude and full of shit to boot.
I admit, the way I executed this was in extreme poor taste. That comment hurt to high hell. If I made a separate thread I know, either way, the result would have been the same. So... at this point you guys have a go at me, my back is strong.
I am not all that proud though, trust me. It bothers me to even have to go here...
I am happy to have made you glad.
I think that I am not as far off base as you would like for me to be, which, for you, is the problem. It has been my experience that when a person reacts as strongly as you have to all of this, it is because something is hitting a little too close to home. You say yourself that "that comment hurt to high hell" why would it hurt so much if it didn't ring true? You expose yourself here, then try to cover by going on the attack.
I most certainly am full of shit. Just not in this instance. Full of shit is when you pull a stunt like you did here, then getting indignant and whine about it when it comes back and bites you on the ass like it has. You still have yet to explain WHY you felt the need to insert this combative quote and hijack this thread. Are you really that desperate for attention? It clearly didn't bother you to "go there" If it bothered you why did you do it?
CaptCarl
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I am happy to have made you glad.
I think that I am not as far off base as you would like for me to be, which, for you, is the problem. It has been my experience that when a person reacts as strongly as you have to all of this, it is because something is hitting a little too close to home. You say yourself that "that comment hurt to high hell" why would it hurt so much if it didn't ring true? You expose yourself here, then try to cover by going on the attack.
I most certainly am full of shit. Just not in this instance. Full of shit is when you pull a stunt like you did here, then getting indignant and whine about it when it comes back and bites you on the ass like it has. You still have yet to explain WHY you felt the need to insert this combative quote and hijack this thread. Are you really that desperate for attention? It clearly didn't bother you to "go there" If it bothered you why did you do it?
CaptCarl
Way off base, maybe it hurt because it was a personal attack that singled him out as an individual.
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I am happy to have made you glad.
I think that I am not as far off base as you would like for me to be, which, for you, is the problem. It has been my experience that when a person reacts as strongly as you have to all of this, it is because something is hitting a little too close to home. You say yourself that "that comment hurt to high hell" why would it hurt so much if it didn't ring true? You expose yourself here, then try to cover by going on the attack.
I most certainly am full of shit. Just not in this instance. Full of shit is when you pull a stunt like you did here, then getting indignant and whine about it when it comes back and bites you on the ass like it has. You still have yet to explain WHY you felt the need to insert this combative quote and hijack this thread. Are you really that desperate for attention? It clearly didn't bother you to "go there" If it bothered you why did you do it?
CaptCarl
Bite me in the ass. Dude, are you serious? I have always spoken up when I disagree with the group mentality. Never been shy in the least... You obviously don't know me and this is not a loss for me in the least.
Yes, you have absolutely no clue. You see I've been here for over 5 years and have made some very close friends. To indicate this is fake (which the quote did) is absolutely a lie, whether it be with a gay man or a positive woman. While you're not one of them trust they are many. So get your mind out of the gutter and go pull an engine or something.
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Bite me in the ass. Dude, are you serious? I have always spoken up when I disagree with the group mentality. Never been shy in the least... You obviously don't know me and this is not a loss for me in the least.
Yes, you have absolutely no clue. You see I've been here for over 5 years and have made some very close friends. To indicate this is fake (which the quote did) is absolutely a lie, whether it be with a gay man or a positive woman. While you're not one of them trust they are many. So get your mind out of the gutter and go pull an engine or something.
I think someone has been hitting the sauce before posting. Try again tomorrow when you're sober, maybe then you'll make more sense.
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Bite me in the ass. Dude, are you serious? I have always spoken up when I disagree with the group mentality. Never been shy in the least... You obviously don't know me and this is not a loss for me in the least.
Yes, you have absolutely no clue. You see I've been here for over 5 years and have made some very close friends. To indicate this is fake (which the quote did) is absolutely a lie, whether it be with a gay man or a positive woman. While you're not one of them trust they are many. So get your mind out of the gutter and go pull an engine or something.
??? I need some for more Lorazopame I took some early today, but it's not working anymore ??? I feel like the walls are closing in on me everytime I read something in this thread :-[ I could really use some
JUNK in a sygine right now :-[
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I think someone has been hitting the sauce before posting. Try again tomorrow when you're sober, maybe then you'll make more sense.
Assuming again are we? If those cars are anything like your conclusions they must be sitting on flats.
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Why do you think they wouldn't start a thread Joe?
This subject has been talked about previously under different headings. What was it? Positive positive... different opinion... a different perspective... and now Who's in Control... it's all the same damn thing. Anyone who showed a different opinion in those threads got blasted. What? Did you not see that too? When you guys were calling on the chap as being compassionate and shitting gold I said otherwise then...
I admit, the way I executed this was in extreme poor taste. That comment hurt to high hell. If I made a separate thread I know, either way, the result would have been the same. So... at this point you guys have a go at me, my back is strong.
I am not all that proud though, trust me. It bothers me to even have to go here...
Please take it down a notch. My comments centered on what you did and how you did it, not as a commentary about what someone else said to you. If you want to have an honest discussion, you need to be up front about what the issue is, who is involved and a result you would like to see. Rather than doing that, you confused this entire thread and you continue to imply that we take some twisted pleasure by being "mean" in responses. Really?
I do not know the history of the comment you referenced and if I said anything that you took as defending such a comment, well that was never my intent. I am more than happy to discuss real issues, without the drama and I don't think I have caused any with my responses. To be honest, I don't know what you want from me. You are asking me to pass judgment on a comment taken out of context and the only way I know that you are offended is because you tell me so. I accept that and I'm sorry you were hurt, but I did not cause that hurt. It is unfair of you, to corner me, into expressing an opinion, that I am not qualified to make. I did not share the history of that comment, because obviously there is more at play here, than just one comment.
I also cannot buy the "I can't post something serious, because I will be swarmed by negativity or whatever. If you feel strongly enough about something, you compose a respectful post, make your case and go from there. Suggesting that we actively stifle conversation is just too easy and I don't see any sharks circling. Some folks seem to go looking for something to jump on and that is just not my style. I may disagree with someone, but always in a respectful and honest fashion and if not, I expect to be called on my behavior.
Sorry, I just don't understand your situation enough, to be as pissed about it, as you insist I be.
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Assuming again are we? If those cars are anything like your conclusions they must be sitting on flats.
No. No assuming here. Thinking is the word I used. You really should try it sometime, you'd be amazed :-*
CaptCarl
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Happiness is a warm gun mama......... :D
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Happiness is a warm gun mama......... :D
It certainly is big boy! ;)
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No. No assuming here. Thinking is the word I used. You really should try it sometime, you'd be amazed :-*
CaptCarl
I think you're an ass for commenting on things you know nothing about. WoW amazing, you're right. Now go and look at my picture in off topic and quit fantasizing about me wanting you.
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:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :-*
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OK ... I have been sick with a cold and offline . As near as I can tell without reading this long thread is Joe wrote such a beautiful post it turned skeebo into a bitchy bottom and now you all are fighting over him ? ... am I right ?
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Wow, when I left the playground, I thought we were back on track to civility. I joined these forums out of desperation and have remained because of the friendships I've developed. I'm here for the support and understanding of other facing the same dilemas I do, not because I need to taught about this disease. You all are important to me in your respective ways and I don't understand the chaos.
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:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :-*
OHHH can I watch and video it, and upload it to www.machofucker.com :P
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Jon's actually. Get it right if your going to comment, in the mean time fuck off.
See that's why I qualified my post with an "if". Reading this drivel makes my eyes glaze over. Apologies for the error.
So to correct the record, I humbly request you produce evidence of Jon's animosity towards straights (links to posts kthnx) or fuck off. :)
But I'm not sure why you're so worried about animosity towards straights considering you yourself are as bent as a 13 dollar note. ::)
MtD
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Jon's actually. Get it right if your going to comment, in the mean time fuck off.
You know, you could have asked me, in private or in public, if I was referring to you. I was most assuredly not.
Skeebo, if you saw yourself in that comment, that's your issue. It was not directed at you in any way whatsoever. You have been on this board long enough to know that is not the way I roll.
I was referring to many people I have encountered in real life, in ASOs and in HIV support groups, who, despite showing contempt for gay folks, and despite the duplicity and active efforts to hurt others, found support from the very people they vilified when push came to shove. When their own "cabal" of like-minded bigots cast them aside for acquiring HIV, gay men and women embraced them, despite having been the object of vitriol and even violence in the past.
Referring to you? You were the furthest from my mind. And if you had bothered to PM me for clarification instead of shitting on Joe's thread and trying to make me look like a bigot, this entire hijack of Joe's thoughtful posting would have been avoided.
That "others" agree with you and Hellraiser and Leather that I am capable of such a vicious personal attack is not only ludicrous, but it is also very telling of the behind-the-scenes activities via PM that have caused people to attack people, myself included, without provocation. A simple query to ME via PM would have resolved that, rather than assuming it was about a member with whom I have had mostly amicable conversations with, up until now.
And to insinuate that I have a problem with straight people? Really? Evidence please, because this is news to me.
I applaud Joe's efforts. But the vitriol I find here from you and others makes this the opposite of a support group.
I might have said "fuck you" to a few people here, but I have never, EVER singled out someone and used their personal history against them. To say that I have is ridiculous, and against everything I am, everything I stand for, and every word I have written. Now if someone is posting when obviously drunk or whacked out, I think they should be called on it. But that's another matter entirely.
Sorry, Joe, for continuing the hijack. But I felt compelled to log in and set the record straight.
Seriously, what utter and unnecessary bullshit.
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Sorry, Joe, for continuing the hijack. But I felt compelled to log in and set the record straight.
No apology needed. There are apologies due, but not from you.
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You know, you could have asked me, in private or in public, if I was referring to you. I was most assuredly not.
You're absolutely right, I fucked up here.
Skeebo, if you saw yourself in that comment, that's your issue. It was not directed at you in any way whatsoever. You have been on this board long enough to know that is not the way I roll.
It's the implication that I am some how using you guys that got to me. As of right now, it's a mute point because I went overboard here by taking this personal. I wish I had contacted you via PM to get clarification. While I had thought about it, I had really convinced myself that it would not be private. It's only because I have witnessed you mention other posters contacting you privately before in instances of disagreement. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying as pointing out something nefarious about you because I am not. It's just something I have witnessed in the past. Pointing this out simply means I once again came to an ill-fated conclusion.
Yep, I fucked up all the way around on this one.
That "others" agree with you and Hellraiser and Leather that I am capable of such a vicious personal attack is not only ludicrous, but it is also very telling of the behind-the-scenes activities via PM that have caused people to attack people, myself included, without provocation. A simple query to ME via PM would have resolved that, rather than assuming it was about a member with whom I have had mostly amicable conversations with, up until now.
While I often have seen mention of a slander campaign publicly on the forums, this is something many here know I frown upon highly. I've pulled away from people because of this and it is something I would never endorse. I've received many supportive PM's, but nothing encouraging this mind you. That's all I want to say about them because I don't like to discuss what people tell me privately ever.... but trust no one PM'ed supporting this. This is of my own doing.
I've been very angry at myself lately and I think it has shown in this display that I am incapable of thinking clearly right now. I have no idea why, but when the shit hits the fan I seemingly fall apart and I am really scared. it's no excuse however, and I know this. I hate when others have acted this way and should hold myself to the same standard.
Jonathan and Joe, I'm not going to sugarcoat it with a bunch of excuses anymore, I apologize to both of you.
This thread had been hijacked by myself enough and I don't want anyone to lend a shoulder to cry on because of what I've mentioned here. Simply put, I am an adult and need to act line one right now.
I am sorry to everyone else I've offended during my unraveling here.
Thomas
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This thread had been hijacked by myself enough and I don't want anyone to lend a shoulder to cry on because of what I've mentioned here. Simply put, I am an adult and need to act line one right now.
You just acted like a mature person and thank you for that heartfelt apology. Even when you fuck up, it does not mean that we are not here for you... if you need us.
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here's a link to the elusive referenced comment that Skeebo used in discussing how there seems to be some animosity lately from part of the "LTS crowd" towards the newer diagnosed. Since Joe seemed to be speaking for that same group in this thread, Skeebo did not accuse Joe of disliking straights; but asked if he held the same opinion as the member he quoted.
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=36617.msg455446#msg455446
Personally, I don't think this was the best thread to debate this issue (even if it does seem to be yet another thread in a series about the idea of looking for the good in life after having gotten HIV - which some newer members initially termed as finding the good from having gotten HIV); but I do agree with Skeebo that there is a problem of rudeness that is shown towards many new members and the newer diagnosed
I don't recall anyone asking you to provide the link, the question was put to skeebo, but you had to get involved didn't you, or maybe you think Skeebo can't do it on his own.
but I do agree with Skeebo that there is a problem of rudeness that is shown towards many new members and the newer diagnosed
How sad the new members will never see the real you, you are arrogant and full of self importance....and I think I have found the Cabal you and your "fans" keep talking about.
Skeebo..I don't know what gotten into you, but I personally have never seen you this far off base, I always saw you as one of the good guys who could pack a punch but never one that would hurt so much.
Joe..Kepp going and don't let the bastards grind you down.
I'm out of here, when I joined 8 years ago this was the best place to come to for support...not so much now.
Jan
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You just acted like a mature person and thank you for that heartfelt apology. Even when you fuck up, it does not mean that we are not here for you... if you need us.
Tomas, I'm glad your here with us, and I do hope that you continue to stick around, you have a incredible open mind on a lot of things, and that is what we all love about you, I can say things to you joking around
with homo erotica overtones, that most men like you would ran for the hills, but you don't, again I love you
man ;), but I think you already know this :) oh and Tomas....is it 4:20 yet, I'm jonesn' here ;D
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I can only say, what little positive attitude I have these days should really be called survival mode. I admit I have to put HIV on the backburner sometimes because I have this little thing called life pushing me to worry about other things. Whether it's my impending separation from my wife or my daughter losing her baby the day before yesterday I can't stop. As bad as I want to fall apart in all this, HIV included.... I just simply can't.
Simply put, whether it's HIV, divorce, death, or my dog running away... I have to still wake up and punch in on time.
I ask everyone to read this part of Skeebo's post, because I caught it the first time and that is why I never jumped down his throat. I think what he needs now is some unconditional love, because face it, these rants were not from the Tom we all know and love. We all know stress can cause us to do strange things. If we didn't know him, we could blow it off, but we do and he matters... now more than ever.
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I don't recall anyone asking you to provide the link, the question was put to skeebo, but you had to get involved didn't you, or maybe you think Skeebo can't do it on his own.
I'm out of here, when I joined 8 years ago this was the best place to come to for support...not so much now.
I'm sorry you didn't like my intrusion into this thread, but I don't really much care for you meddling in it either. But you know what? I don't care. I'm allowed to chat here just as much as you, no matter how much you dislike me - which of course, is clearly evidenced by the way you constantly go out of your way (like posting what you did in this thread) to attack me. My opinions and experiences are just as valid as anyone else's and I have just as much right to speak about them and to "get involved" by joining into any discussion that I choose. Last I checked you aren't a moderator and you have no right to tell me which threads I can and cannot post in.
Before you start on some tirade about getting involved anyway, you should take really notice of your own actions of jumping into threads to help/defend those that you call your friends. I can't count the amount of times I have had a disagreement with one of your friends here and suddenly you've intruded into the problem to put in your two cents on their behalf.
I'll agree with you on one point though. I think there isn't as much support around here as there used to be. Coming into this already problematic thread and spewing your bitchiness at me really shows what your character is like and doesn't offer anyone any support. Matter of fact it shows that the very lack of support you're complaining about is partially YOUR fault.
Of course, I figured out months and months ago that you hate me, and I'm sure by now you must realize, because of your actions and words, that I dislike you too; so I would kindly ask that you leave me the hell alone, like I have been leaving you alone.
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Mike, come on now you know that isn't true, nobody in this forum hates you, if anything, I admire your activism and getting involved in your own state's ADAP rallies, to me that says a great deal about your
character, also you & I have lost 2 BF's to AIDS, and we have that in common with each other, we both know how hard that is, to loose someone that close to you, it saddens me, that you feel this way, I love you too MIke, and I enjoy what you bring to the table in these forums, not everyone will always agree on certain things in this forum, and you know this :)
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Thank you for the clarification, Thomas. Apology accepted. Condolences on your loss.
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Thomas, I'm so sorry about what is going on in your life right now..life can suck sometimes, keep your strength up, I know you will get throught this.
Hugs
Jan :-*
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I'll agree with you on one point though. I think there isn't as much support around here as there used to be. Coming into this already problematic thread and spewing your bitchiness at me really shows what your character is like and doesn't offer anyone any support. Matter of fact it shows that the very lack of support you're complaining about is partially YOUR fault.
You really are a piece of work. You entered into this thread for no other reason than to denigrate Joe, and you know it. It also gave you the opportunity to lob one of your patented pussy passive-aggressive swipes using Skeebo as cover. Your prolific PM's trashing other forum members are legend. Talk about support. Before you start attacking other folks character you might want to take a look in the mirror.
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You really are a piece of work. You entered into this thread for no other reason than to denigrate Joe, and you know it. It also gave you the opportunity to lob one of your patented pussy passive-aggressive swipes using Skeebo as cover. Your prolific PM's trashing other forum members are legend. Talk about support. Before you start attacking other folks character you might want to take a look in the mirror.
Odious, isn't it?
MtD
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I think it is always a good idea to think about what someone may be going through at the time they post--unless they are just always hostile and always looking for a fight.
About reading more into statements than intended: There have been several times when folks read more into something a member has said than was intended or even stated. I've seen some (some) quick to label those people as racist, a bigot, a misogynist, disrespectful, hateful, etc. I think about a recent member who posted he couldn't find any decent (in his opinion) HIV poz women on the personals forums. Many took offense immediately thinking he was talking about women in this forum, when it was clear he was talking about the personals forums. Many were ready to jump on it without asking for clarification. He was sharing his experience with the poz women he had run into on the personals. He wasn't saying all poz women weren't disirable--just the ones he so happened to run into on a particular personals site or sites. But, some took what he said very personal as if he were saying it to them or a friend. Maybe those who took offense so quickly were going through a rough time that day and that explains why they took his comments so personally. So, it is always good to consider someone is just having a bad day, who exactly are they referring to, whether they said something that didn't come out right, or whether it did come out right, but weren't painting everyone with the same brush and weren't targeting an entire group out of hate or malice.
Now, I know bringing stuff from other threads into another is frowned upon, but I didn't know how to do it without referencing an example. I'm afraid now that what I just said will be taken as saying everyone here does this, the forums are bad, etc.
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You entered into this thread for no other reason than to denigrate Joe,
how in the world does Jan and I having a spat have anything to do with Joe? Joe hasn't made one comment towards me and I haven't made one negative comment towards him or anything he said. He and I have had disagreements in the past and have chosen to not engage one another so there wouldn't be any further disputes.
the only comment that I've made that might be construed to have anything to do with Joe or his thread is the comment that this seems to be "another thread in a series about the idea of looking for the good in life after having gotten HIV" - and that really is how it started off.
I can't count the amount of times I have had a disagreement with one of your friends here and suddenly you've intruded into the problem to put in your two cents on their behalf.
I'm not surprised to see you and Matty jumping in here for the exact reason I gave to Jan. ::)
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I think it is always a good idea to think about what someone may be going through at the time they post--unless they are just always hostile and always looking for a fight.
About reading more into statements than intended: There have been several times when folks read more into something a member has said than was intended or even stated. I've seen some (some) quick to label those people as racist, a bigot, a misogynist, disrespectful, hateful, etc. I think about a recent member who posted he couldn't find any decent (in his opinion) HIV poz women on the personals forums. Many took offense immediately thinking he was talking about women in this forum, when it was clear he was talking about the personals forums. Many were ready to jump on it without asking for clarification. He was sharing his experience with the poz women he had run into on the personals. He wasn't saying all poz women weren't disirable--just the ones he so happened to run into on a particular personals site or sites. But, some took what he said very personal as if he were saying it to them or a friend. Maybe those who took offense so quickly were going through a rough time that day and that explains why they took his comments so personally. So, it is always good to consider someone is just having a bad day, who exactly are they referring to, whether they said something that didn't come out right, or whether it did come out right, but weren't painting everyone with the same brush and weren't targeting an entire group out of hate or malice.
Now, I know bringing stuff from other threads into another is frowned upon, but I didn't know how to do it without referencing an example. I'm afraid now that what I just said will be taken as saying everyone here does this, the forums are bad, etc.
Still butt-hurt eh?
Deal with it. :-*
MtD
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how in the world does Jan and I having a spat have anything to do with Joe? Joe hasn't made one comment towards me and I haven't made one negative comment towards him or anything he said. He and I have had disagreements in the past and have chosen to not engage one another so there wouldn't be any further disputes.
You jumped in and posted that link to stir the pot, that's quite obvious. You like to attempt to dash people in round-about ways that you think no one will call you on. And you really had no right to go on a tirade with Jan. She was only pointing out your failure at attempting to throw darts without seeming to. You had offered no contribution to this thread until you posted that link. Come on, come out with the real reason you did it. Some of us already know.
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You people are all old enough to know better than to publicly embarrass yourselves in this fashion. This is the most juvenile bickering I've yet to see on these forums and frankly I've seen a lot of really puerile bullshit, but I have to say this takes the cake. I'm not exempting anyone from this statement: Grow up.
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Hellraiser is bang on the money.
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You people are all old enough to know better than to publicly embarrass yourselves in this fashion. This is the most juvenile bickering I've yet to see on these forums and frankly I've seen a lot of really puerile bullshit, but I have to say this takes the cake. I'm not exempting anyone from this statement: Grow up.
Aw gee Mr Hellraiser, you're right. It grieves a body to know that we've disappointed someone of your bearing and dignity. :(
Thank golly gosh we've got someone like you who's all wise and compassionate and tolerant and shit to set an example for the rest of us assholes.
I telll ya what, I'm going to go back through your posting history and dwell on your every word to see how I can improve myself because I just live for the Holy Word of Trey.
And if I find someting really fucking special I'll be sure to post here for the rest of the Community to enjoy. :)
MtD
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It involves asking one very simple question: Who’s in control, HIV or you?
I would like to think that it 'tis I so far'. The whole HIV thing has caused my life to take a new direction for sure. Although my health is good at this point in time, who really knows what the impact of Atripla (or any other drug new/old) will be on my body 10 years from now?
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You've got nothing better to do?
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I vote for reactivation of the IGNORE function soon. Some ingredients just cant be mixed to create a nourishing meal.
Skeebo, wow sounds like a heavy load these days. I hear what you are saying about having to still get up and go to work.
That's sorta what I posted about, about money's role in this.
I always remember that its good to have a job - for more than money - cause it shapes a lot of my day to day reality - work life, responsiblities, etc etc, its good to have one world counterbalancing the other especially when one is going to hell.
When my studies, relationship AND job were all caught in whirlpools, at the same time, I had a breakdown, I had thin and weak threads of "control" at that point. Within months serocoverted.
I wonder how much we can heal with an admittedly "lite" buddhist perspective combined with some therapy and some wisdom, getting older.
Here's some free podcasts from Tara Brach that are useful enough - for getting some mindfulness and equanimity about all this push and shove that distresses us.
http://www.tarabrach.com/audioarchives2011.html
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I vote for reactivation of the IGNORE function soon. Some ingredients just cant be mixed to create a nourishing meal.
What ever for, we don't need an Ignore button I find it interesting when everyone one needs to work out their shit on each other, heck this is better then "One Life to live" "General Hospital" or that UK one called
'EastEnders" :D :D :D :D
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You people are all old enough to know better than to publicly embarrass yourselves in this fashion. This is the most juvenile bickering I've yet to see on these forums and frankly I've seen a lot of really puerile bullshit, but I have to say this takes the cake. I'm not exempting anyone from this statement: Grow up.
Speaking of puerile bullshit, I notice your contribution to the juvenile bickering. Don't you ever come into one of my threads and start stirring the pot by making blanket statements about every poster. Many folks in this thread added real contributions, as opposed to you just stopping by for a quick flamebait. Your comments are meant as insults and insults only to the posters here and while you may get away with it, in other threads, it is not going to happen here.
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You had offered no contribution to this thread until you posted that link. Come on, come out with the real reason you did it.
since one of my standard quotes is "google is my friend" and since everyone seemed to not be able to work the search function here, I provided a link. All one had to do was search for "backdoor sex" and there was only one post. It seemed everyone was ready to bash Skeebo, but no one wanted to do the legwork to even find out what he was talking about.
and yes, I still think a lot of newer members tend to get jumped on when they "mis-speak" about something in the first part of their tenure here. So someone is looking for a "blessing in disguise" or a "positive positive thread", is that really a reason to rip into them? Or is that an opening for a teaching moment? God knows, just like this thread, it's all about the underlying ability to have a positive attitude to be able to emotionally and mentally deal with being HIV positive. So finally after several failed and locked threads, it was turning into a teachable moment. (well it was trying to be a teachable moment before going off the rails several times now. ;) sigh)
as for having the spat with Jan, just like she asked about me stepping in for Skeebo, don't you think she's a big girl and should be able to handle her own battles? Why are you or the others, who have not contributed previously in this thread, stepping in now, just to fight with another member? Pot meet the Kettle. I get so tired of one of you (mainly Matty, Dach, Jan or Betty) starting some flame war with me and then the rest of you bullies jumping into the fight. I know you fucking hate me and I hate y'all too. What just kills me and show what bullies y'all are is that I never start any of this shit. One of you is always the first to comment to me and then the others follow.
Yes, take a long look through the posting histories and then a long look in your own mirror. It is always one of y'all that starts this shit. I have followed Ann and Tim's advice to me and I never even make "nice" comments in the threads y'all start or are involved in. The only time I ever have any interaction with y'all is once y'all start something.
Personally, I have just as many rights as y'all to believe what I what about what happens around here and that doesn't make any of us wrong. It just means that you have your opinions and I have mine. I believe, and so do others, that there are bullies here and newer members are often mistreated. I just don't understand why I can withhold comment on the shit that y'all spew out sometimes and give you the right to your comments and experiences, but y'all will not afford me those same rights.
everyone one needs to work out their shit on each other,
fuck I don't need to work out any shit with anyone. I've had AIDS for 20 yrs and I'm working my ass off at my ASO doing prevention and education to try to keep others from going down this same path. I actually deal with the newer diagnosed people and understand when they are looking for the light at the end of the tunnel that's going to get them through the next 20 years. I don't need my friends here to jump in like a gang and bully others whom I don't agree with because we know how fucking rude, un-supportive, and hateful that is.
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I think this is what the doctor ordered:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcdhdzfbR_o
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"The Beatings in this Forum will continue until the Economy Improves"
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What ever for, we don't need an Ignore button I find it interesting when everyone one needs to work out their shit on each other, heck this is better then "One Life to live" "General Hospital" or that UK one called
'EastEnders" :D :D :D :D
Watch soap opera for entertaining high drama, play a rough contact sport, or any sport, or at least get plowed regularly, and work out your shit with a therapist, body work, and introspection.
Its human to workout stuff "with" each other but its not productive to do it "on" each other - though it certainly is human too. See the distinction?
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since one of my standard quotes is "google is my friend" and since everyone seemed to not be able to work the search function here, I provided a link. All one had to do was search for "backdoor sex" and there was only one post. It seemed everyone was ready to bash Skeebo, but no one wanted to do the legwork to even find out what he was talking about.
and yes, I still think a lot of newer members tend to get jumped on when they "mis-speak" about something in the first part of their tenure here. So someone is looking for a "blessing in disguise" or a "positive positive thread", is that really a reason to rip into them? Or is that an opening for a teaching moment? God knows, just like this thread, it's all about the underlying ability to have a positive attitude to be able to emotionally and mentally deal with being HIV positive. So finally after several failed and locked threads, it was turning into a teachable moment. (well it was trying to be a teachable moment before going off the rails several times now. ;) sigh)
as for having the spat with Jan, just like she asked about me stepping in for Skeebo, don't you think she's a big girl and should be able to handle her own battles? Why are you or the others, who have not contributed previously in this thread, stepping in now, just to fight with another member? Pot meet the Kettle. I get so tired of one of you (mainly Matty, Dach, Jan or Betty) starting some flame war with me and then the rest of you bullies jumping into the fight. I know you fucking hate me and I hate y'all too. What just kills me and show what bullies y'all are is that I never start any of this shit. One of you is always the first to comment to me and then the others follow.
Yes, take a long look through the posting histories and then a long look in your own mirror. It is always one of y'all that starts this shit. I have followed Ann and Tim's advice to me and I never even make "nice" comments in the threads y'all start or are involved in. The only time I ever have any interaction with y'all is once y'all start something.
Personally, I have just as many rights as y'all to believe what I what about what happens around here and that doesn't make any of us wrong. It just means that you have your opinions and I have mine. I believe, and so do others, that there are bullies here and newer members are often mistreated. I just don't understand why I can withhold comment on the shit that y'all spew out sometimes and give you the right to your comments and experiences, but y'all will not afford me those same rights.
fuck I don't need to work out any shit with anyone. I've had AIDS for 20 yrs and I'm working my ass off at my ASO doing prevention and education to try to keep others from going down this same path. I actually deal with the newer diagnosed people and understand when they are looking for the light at the end of the tunnel that's going to get them through the next 20 years. I don't need my friends here to jump in like a gang and bully others whom I don't agree with because we know how fucking rude, un-supportive, and hateful that is.
I am also going to ask you, to take your quarrel somewhere else. My thread is not the place for this and if you feel this strongly about these issues, may I suggest you start your own thread.
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An OP doesn't necessarily get to moderate his own thread. Puleez.
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I am also going to ask you, to take your quarrel somewhere else. My thread is not the place for this and if you feel this strongly about these issues, may I suggest you start your own thread.
if you had bothered to read my post you would have seen how Dach, Matty, Jan and BT brought this derailment to your thread. (Notice how Dach twisted to the situation to insinuate that there was a quarrel between yourself and me.) If you would add your weight to mine and ask THEM to stop instigating attacks against ME in public, then I would not have to respond in public. I did not instigate this derailment and you are quite incorrect in suggesting that any of this is my fault. I was attacked in this thread by others, and if anything you should be asking EVERYONE to stop. I personally have no thread to start, as this quarrel is NOT of my doing.
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Actually L-Man, in reviewing this thread in it's entirety, it is very clearly Skeebs who derailed it. The others, including myself jumped in at a later time.
CaptCarl
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Actually L-Man, in reviewing this thread in it's entirety, it is very clearly Skeebs who derailed it. The others, including myself jumped in at a later time.
agreed. however the derailment into issues involving me (that I called "this derailment") and several antagonists was started by others - please see reply 57 and 78. Dach mentioned a "meme" and Jan mentioned a "cabal" - both which clearly instigated the thread going off onto this tangent/derailment.
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An OP doesn't necessarily get to moderate his own thread. Puleez.
I do however, have the right to keep the thread on course, if I can and all these sideline comments, including yours, contribute NOTHING to this thread.
if you had bothered to read my post you would have seen how Dach, Matty, Jan and BT brought this derailment to your thread. (Notice how Dach twisted to the situation to insinuate that there was a quarrel between yourself and me.) If you would add your weight to mine and ask THEM to stop instigating attacks against ME in public, then I would not have to respond in public. I did not instigate this derailment and you are quite incorrect in suggesting that any of this is my fault. I was attacked in this thread by others, and if anything you should be asking EVERYONE to stop. I personally have no thread to start, as this quarrel is NOT of my doing.
Please re-read my last comment to you. I ascribed blame to nobody, nor did I make any comment on the substance of your thread. I simply suggested that you take your issues to another thread. There has already been a lot of unnecessary bad blood in this thread and I am trying to stop it from heading south again.
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if you had bothered to read my post you would have seen how Dach, Matty, Jan and BT brought this derailment to your thread. (Notice how Dach twisted to the situation to insinuate that there was a quarrel between yourself and me.) If you would add your weight to mine and ask THEM to stop instigating attacks against ME in public, then I would not have to respond in public. I did not instigate this derailment and you are quite incorrect in suggesting that any of this is my fault. I was attacked in this thread by others, and if anything you should be asking EVERYONE to stop. I personally have no thread to start, as this quarrel is NOT of my doing.
You're just so full of shit, so little girl grade school. A whining perpetual victim.
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I ascribed blame to nobody, nor did I make any comment on the substance of your thread. I simply suggested that you take your issues to another thread.
by asking me rather than the instigators to take this "issue" to another thread you imply that I am to blame. I have no "issue" except that I was responding to being attacked by other members. Your proper response as OP would have been to ask the instigators/attackers to take their issues elsewhere.
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A whining perpetual victim.
yes. If you would only quit being a bully and leave me the hell alone, as I leave you and your comments alone, I would not be a victim of your attacks.
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An OP doesn't necessarily get to moderate his own thread. Puleez.
That's rich Heidi. You've whined a thousand times about folks hijacking your tedious threads.
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Watch soap opera for entertaining high drama, play a rough contact sport, or any sport, or at least get plowed regularly, and work out your shit with a therapist, body work, and introspection.
Its human to workout stuff "with" each other but its not productive to do it "on" each other - though it certainly is human too. See the distinction?
Hey Mecch people push each others buttons all the time, that's the way we all inter react with each other
sometime it's pleasant, and sometimes NOT, however this is Joe's Thread he can do with it whatever he feels necessary, and keeping it on topic isn't a bad thing ;)
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yes. If you would only quit being a bully and leave me the hell alone, as I leave you and your comments alone, I would not be a victim of your attacks.
Actually leather you're worse than a bully. You're a coward. You use other people's threads to launch thinly veiled passive-aggressive attacks. You use nasty PM's to attack forum members you don't like. Victim, no. Coward, yes.
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by asking me rather than the instigators to take this "issue" to another thread you imply that I am to blame. I have no "issue" except that I was responding to being attacked by other members. Your proper response as OP would have been to ask the instigators/attackers to take their issues elsewhere.
Will you please get a grip. This post is not about you, period. I don't come into your posts and start spreading shit far and wide, so why do you think it is fine for you to do that to me? I am so tired of your passive-aggressive posts, always playing the victim and insisting that others fight your battles. I do not tell other posters what to do, especially when I agree with them.
Ever since October 6, 2010, when we had ONE disagreement, you have repeated claimed that you and I have a problem with each other. News Flash, it is not me who has the problem. I apologized for my mis-spoken comment repeatedly FIVE MONTHS AGO, but you keep bringing it up. Why is that? Please explain it to me, so I can understand. I ask you to stop shitting all over my thread and all you can do is to make it all about you. Like I said, you want personal adoration, then start your own fucking thread.
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(http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4612529/Why-dont-we-just-declare-troll-war.jpg?imageSize=Large&generatorName=Philosoraptor)
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Actually leather you're worse than a bully. You're a coward. You use other people's threads to launch thinly veiled passive-aggressive attacks. You use nasty PM's to attack forum members you don't like. Victim, no. Coward, yes.
once again I say, I totally understand that you do not like me. In return, I definitely do not like you either. And I really don't understand why you (or Jan with her opinion of me) even bothers to have any interaction with me at all. I clearly never start any interactions between myself and y'all. If y'all would leave me alone, I wouldn't have any reason to state my opinions about you in public or private. You use other people's thread to launch your attacks against me. I do no such thing.
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Please explain it to me, so I can understand. I ask you to stop shitting all over my thread and all you can do is to make it all about you. Like I said, you want personal adoration, then start your own fucking thread.
I simply want a few other members to leave me alone. Is that too much to ask? If Jan or Dach had never posted any attacks on me, this "shitting on your thread" would have never happened.
Ever since October 6, 2010, when we had ONE disagreement, you have repeated claimed that you and I have a problem with each other. News Flash, it is not me who has the problem. I apologized for my mis-spoken comment repeatedly FIVE MONTHS AGO, but you keep bringing it up. Why is that?
I didn't bring that up, you just did. Dach was the one trying to start something between you and I and he succeeded in getting you to comment on an issue that you and I have put in the past. Or so I thought. LOL Obviously, even though I never mentioned that here at all, you read that into my comments. Don't fall for his tricks Joe. ;)
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I simply want a few other members to leave me alone. Is that too much to ask? If Jan or Dach had never posted any attacks on me, this "shitting on your thread" would have never happened.
I didn't bring that up, you just did. Dach was the one trying to start something between you and I and he succeeded in getting you to comment on an issue that you and I have put in the past. Or so I thought. LOL Obviously, even though I never mentioned that here at all, you read that into my comments. Don't fall for his tricks Joe. ;)
No tricks Mary. Try as you might to deflect, dear. No one's buying it.
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how in the world does Jan and I having a spat have anything to do with Joe? Joe hasn't made one comment towards me and I haven't made one negative comment towards him or anything he said. He and I have had disagreements in the past and have chosen to not engage one another so there wouldn't be any further disputes.
You did mention this first and you have been making comments like these for months. You never miss an opportunity to tell everyone how disagreeable I am and how I hurt you and you really need to grow up. Start acting like an adult.
edited to add: Please save the bandwidth and don't reply as there is nothing more you can add. Maybe it's time to lock this one down, before the shit gets any deeper.
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No tricks Mary. Try as you might to deflect, dear. No one's buying it.
Hey Mike, why on earth are you so worried about who likes you in AIDS Forum, I'm confused as to why this brothers you so much, please enlighten us all, as I don't seem to understand why that is so important to you? I for one don't give a shit about who likes me, I have better things to do w/ my time :)
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You never miss an opportunity to tell everyone how disagreeable I am
what a lie! please show links to prove that one. I only mentioned that we had a disagreement, I did not speak of what that disagreement was.
but let's see how unfair your sentiments are? It's ok for Jan and Dach to bring up things from the past when they believed I wronged them or others but it wouldn't be okay for me to do something similar? It's okay for them to derail your thread with attacks on me; but it's not ok for me to respond. Clearly you hold one standard for some and another standard for other people.
Hey Mike, why on earth are you so worried about who likes you in AIDS Forum, I'm confused as to why this brothers you so much, please enlighten us all, as I don't seem to understand why that is so important to you?
Because one can either stand up to a bully or back down. A few members here frequently try to bully me and claim that my opinions and/or experiences are not valid. While plenty of others take one way out by ignoring this and moving on, every once in a while when these people attack me, I stand up for my rights and my opinions. Just because others don't think there's bullying and hatefulness in these forums (even Jan admits the support is waning) doesn't mean it isn't here and that it isn't happening. Actually the ones who shout the loudest that there isn't bullying and that others are simply playing victim are quite frankly the very bullies destroying the supportive nature of these forums. New members are frequently run off, older members sit quietly behind the scenes rarely interacting, and hatefulness abounds as thread after thread gets locked down.
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Well dear, I'm sorry to imform you that everything isn't about YOU, but I think you already know this.....right?
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Mikie, since I am the reason you posted in Joe's thread may I ask you to stop? If you want to continue this arguement, which has nothing to do with me, can you start your own thread about it? I think it would be best, especially if this is something that bothers you.
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what a lie! please show links to prove that one. I only mentioned that we had a disagreement, I did not speak of what that disagreement was.
but let's see how unfair your sentiments are? It's ok for Jan and Dach to bring up things from the past when they believed I wronged them or others but it wouldn't be okay for me to do something similar? It's okay for them to derail your thread with attacks on me; but it's not ok for me to respond. Clearly you hold one standard for some and another standard for other people.
Because one can either stand up to a bully or back down. A few members here frequently try to bully me and claim that my opinions and/or experiences are not valid. While plenty of others take one way out by ignoring this and moving on, every once in a while when these people attack me, I stand up for my rights and my opinions. Just because others don't think there's bullying and hatefulness in these forums (even Jan admits the support is waning) doesn't mean it isn't here and that it isn't happening. Actually the ones who shout the loudest that there isn't bullying and that others are simply playing victim are quite frankly the very bullies destroying the supportive nature of these forums. New members are frequently run off, older members sit quietly behind the scenes rarely interacting, and hatefulness abounds as thread after thread gets locked down.
Just stop with your incessant whining. As I said, if this is such an issue for you, take it to your own thread. You have now crossed over and you are FLAMING this thread and I am asking you to stop. I will not ask again, rather I will report you for abusive behavior. Do not test me on this.
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Well dear, I'm sorry to imform you that everything isn't about YOU, but I think you already know this.....right?
If you want to continue this arguement, which has nothing to do with me, can you start your own thread about it?
Sorry Den but you are incorrect and Skeebo is right. Others made this thread about me and my opinions. They didn't like my opinions and made personal attacks on me.
Odious, isn't it?
You really are a piece of work. You entered into this thread for no other reason than to denigrate Joe, and you know it.
How sad the new members will never see the real you, you are arrogant and full of self importance.
If you want to continue this arguement, which has nothing to do with me, can you start your own thread about it? I think it would be best, especially if this is something that bothers you
I wasn't bothered until I got attacked in this thread and why should I start up another thread to counter the attacks that I received in this thread?
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I am requesting that this thread be locked. It has denigrated into a childish display and serves no further useful purpose.
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Sorry Den but you are incorrect and Skeebo is right. Others made this thread about me and my opinions. They didn't like my opinions and made personal attacks on me.
I wasn't bothered until I got attacked in this thread and why should I start up another thread to counter the attacks that I received in this thread?
Well maybe you should take everyone's advice and STOP, as Tomas has kindly ask you too...this is still joe's thread and not yours dear :-*
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Can anyone give me ONE good reason why I shouldn't lock this thread? It's getting tedious.
I am requesting that this thread be locked. It has denigrated into a childish display and serves no further useful purpose.
Gladly, Joe. I was just writing the above post when you posted before me. I've been sitting on my hands over it and nearly locked it yesterday. Then Skeebo apologised and I hoped that would be an end of it but no, some people just cannot let things go.
Joe, I appreciate your original intentions. I hope this trainwreck does not dissuade you from more threads like this in future - and I promise I'll be more pro-active if anyone starts any similar crap. I'm sorry I didn't do it earlier here, but one lives in hope that adults might act like adults. Guess it's pie-in-the-sky.