questionnaire - sexual practice couples serodiscordant (magnetic) relationship

[tyranossaurusrex]

hello, everyone.

i have created a little questionnaire, for couples in a serodiscordant (magnetic) relationship to fill out (regarding their sexual practice through the relationship).

i will try to be as detailed as possible here, about my own serodiscordant relationship. i hope i can get some personal experiences, from other discordant couples (filling the questionnaire, below).

i am in a monogamous relationship with my boyfriend (we are both male). i am negative, he is positive.

the fear of being contaminated still hits me, eventually, here and there. the fear comes and goes: sometimes i have it more, sometimes i have it less. sometimes i have no fear at all and i forget completely about it, and sometimes i freak out totally, which is never good for neither of us.

we do not know any other discordant couples who have been in a long-term relationship, so sometimes i feel a bit lost, without much reference or support. how do other discordant couples do? how do they have sex, without fear? how do they protect themselves?

this is why i decided to make this post. i would be very happy to know real stories, of other discordant couples, about their sexual practices, as detailed as possible (see the questionnaire below!).

i have been reading the posts on this forum for quite a while, now, and although i have also found some experiences here and there about people in such relationships, i still felt the need of asking my own questions, with their own details. hoping to hear some personal stories (just as detailed, as well), hoping to find some support.

i have been informed, and i have also read extensively about all the information regarding the opposites attract study, partner study, swiss study, etc. though, for me, they are only studies, and i still miss the chance to be able to know it directly from couples, about their sexlives, and how they protect themselves, the frequency they have sex, etc.

as i said, my fear comes and goes. before, i didn't fear condomless anal sex, for example, relying on the partner study. more recently, i started to fear it, so we have been learning how to use a condom (we have been succeeding on putting the condom on, but not yet on having full-anal sex with condom).

before i also didn't fear to give him a blowjob, and to have him ejaculating on my mouth, and swallowing the cum. he ejaculated on my mouth everytime. i have a good oral hygene, though there were a few moments here and there when i had a little sore throat (due to the change of the weather), and even then, i didn't mind to give him blowjobs and swallow his cum. more recently, i do.

although many people say on the internet oral sex is NO risk at all, still i have met people (on real life) who say they have been contaminated through oral sex.

i have read so much on the internet, about everything. i don't think there is any new study or information out there that i haven't already read.

still, i miss to ask it myself, to know the real-life experience of real-life serodiscordant couples, beyond the statistics, the studies, the numbers - more detailed, also (fitting my own questions and doubts).

so i have created this questionnaire, with the questions, doubts and fears that have been going on on my mind - trying to understand, how is it that other couples do?

 i hope i can get some support, from couples filling in the questionnaire, answering the questions (i am not looking for studies or statistics, but rather for the details of your own personal experience, being in a serodiscordant relationship).

i will answer the questionnaire myself, too.

so, if you are in a serodiscordant relationship (or have had one), my most important questions at this moment, would be:

QUESTIONNAIRE SERODISCORDANT COUPLES

1] how long are you on this relationship, so far? (or how long had you been in one)

2] are you the positive or the negative partner?

3] is the positive partner on medications? since when?

4] is the positive partner undetectable?

5] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the receptive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

6] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the insertive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

7] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who receives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

8] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who gives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

9] in which circumstances do you (and/or your partner) decide not to have sex, and why? (for example.: if you or your partner have a sore throat, a flu, etc.)

10] is there any sexual practice you don't engage at all, regarding the possible transmission of hiv? (oral sex, cumming in the mouth, anal sex as the insertive or receptive partner, condomless sex, or any other practice)

11] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated through oral sex? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

12] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated being in a serodiscordant relationship, by his partner? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been contaminated? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)

14] which other especific care do you or/and your partner take, regarding the transmission?

i thank a lot every person who takes their time to help by answering the questionnaire. also, i hope it can be good to gather here this sort of information, for every other person who might be in a discordant relationship, or about to be in one.

[Jeff G]

Welcome to the forum … use condoms correctly and consistently for anal and vaginal sex and have regular sexual healthcare checkups and you will be fine.

Also, check out my links to PrEP on the bottom of my page for extra peace of mind.

[harleymc]

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been contaminated? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)

Contaminated? WTF? I do not regard myself as contaminated.


If people want to play with these sorts of questions they could contribute better to knowledge by joining a scientific study.

[Gruff]

QUESTIONNAIRE SERODISCORDANT COUPLES

1] how long are you on this relationship, so far? (or how long had you been in one)

5 years as of last week

2] are you the positive or the negative partner?

I'm Poz, he's Neg (both male)

3] is the positive partner on medications? since when?

No.  No need to. I've been undetectable throughout our relationship. Both his doctor and mine are fine with this.

4] is the positive partner undetectable?

Yes

5] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the receptive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Bareback, no condom, ejaculation inside (we're both verse)

6] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the insertive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Bareback, no condom, ejaculation inside (we're both verse)

7] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who receives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Without condom, full swallow

8] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who gives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Without condom, full swallow

9] in which circumstances do you (and/or your partner) decide not to have sex, and why? (for example.: if you or your partner have a sore throat, a flu, etc.)


The same as any other couple: tired, ill, etc.

10] is there any sexual practice you don't engage at all, regarding the possible transmission of hiv? (oral sex, cumming in the mouth, anal sex as the insertive or receptive partner, condomless sex, or any other practice)

No.

11] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated through oral sex? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

This has never happened in the history of medical science. Anywhere.

12] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated being in a serodiscordant relationship, by his partner? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

No (and most of our friends are in long-term serodiscordant relationships)

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been contaminated? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)

I find your questions about oral sex disturbing - and the use of the word "contaminated" is clunky at best. It suggests you are asking questions about things you don't know very much about.  But yes, I know how, and it was through receptive anal sex with a man who had untreated HIV and an enormous VL, and his Prince Albert (penal piercing) ripped my rectum wall.

14] which other especific care do you or/and your partner take, regarding the transmission?

I take my meds and stay undetectable.

So now, my question for you - why are you conducting this questionnaire?  You seem to have a bit to learn about HIV transmission....

[Mightysure]

If you want poz people to engage in your questionnaire, Maybe you shouldn't use terms like "contaminated".  That's insensitive and offensive.  I hope you don't use words like that around your partner.

[Jeff G]

I didn’t think this thread would go over too well. If I may suggest… if you want people to respond to you so that you can learn about how other people live with HIV and look damn good doing it you may want to get to know people before playing 20 - 80 questions, I didn’t count. 

[tyranossaurusrex]

If you want poz people to engage in your questionnaire, Maybe you shouldn't use terms like "contaminated".  That's insensitive and offensive.  I hope you don't use words like that around your partner.

i am sorry if my term was offensive to you, or to anyone else. regarding the subject (hiv), there is a whole terminology to learn, especial cares to take, information to read, things to get informed about, fears and anxieties to deal with, that i can't believe i am being so judged by the misusing of a word.

and in fact, my partner read my questions together with me, before i posted, and he didn't seem to care about the use of any word.

anyways, i would like to know, which word would be the most adequate?

[tyranossaurusrex]

I didn’t think this thread would go over too well. If I may suggest… if you want people to respond to you so that you can learn about how other people live with HIV and look damn good doing it you may want to get to know people before playing 20 - 80 questions, I didn’t count. 

jeff, i am sorry also to you, though i thank the previous answer you have given me. i have been reading the forum for quite a while now, so i felt safe and confident to post my questions here, thought i could find confort and support, here.

maybe i have not done it in the best way, asking too many questions all at once, making a whole questionnaire about it, misusing words. but i would also like to explain myself, by saying, the doubts in my head are just so many , so many , and little people to talk about with in real life, on the circumnstances i live in. i thought a questionnaire would be a more objective way to expose my questions, all of them at once, for some peace of mind.

it was only an attempt to relief my fears and doubts, looking for some help, support. i have been exploding, lately, with so many questions on my head, and no other people in the same situation as me to talk with. not knowing any other serodiscordant couples, for example, to know about their sexual life. as i said, maybe i haven't done it in the best way, proposing a whole questionnaire, so again, i apologise.

 

[tyranossaurusrex]

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been contaminated? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)

Contaminated? WTF? I do not regard myself as contaminated.


If people want to play with these sorts of questions they could contribute better to knowledge by joining a scientific study.

i apologise also to you. and again, i can't believe i am being so judged for the misusing of a word. i didn't know another one - mostly, i didn't think it woud be offensive.

and i don't see it as a playing. many people have joined studies, but i don't know who they are and the numbers presented in the studies speak to me much less than a personal answer would, and i was hoping to find it here. maybe you look at the questionnaire and it seems like a game, something only objectively, but for me, it is quite serious. in the meaning of, there are many emotions and fears involved, for me. my inability to learn on my own how to deal with my partner status. which cares to take, regarding oral sex, for example. not wanting to freak out over irrational fears, but also not wanting to expose myself to a risk. feeling as if i am failing completely to manage the relationship that i very much want to have. not for lack of all the information i can find on the internet, but for lack of identification, say, not knowing how other serodiscordant couples deal with it.

[tyranossaurusrex]

QUESTIONNAIRE SERODISCORDANT COUPLES

1] how long are you on this relationship, so far? (or how long had you been in one)

5 years as of last week

2] are you the positive or the negative partner?

I'm Poz, he's Neg (both male)

3] is the positive partner on medications? since when?

No.  No need to. I've been undetectable throughout our relationship. Both his doctor and mine are fine with this.

4] is the positive partner undetectable?

Yes

5] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the receptive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Bareback, no condom, ejaculation inside (we're both verse)

6] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the insertive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Bareback, no condom, ejaculation inside (we're both verse)

7] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who receives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Without condom, full swallow

8] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who gives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Without condom, full swallow

9] in which circumstances do you (and/or your partner) decide not to have sex, and why? (for example.: if you or your partner have a sore throat, a flu, etc.)


The same as any other couple: tired, ill, etc.

10] is there any sexual practice you don't engage at all, regarding the possible transmission of hiv? (oral sex, cumming in the mouth, anal sex as the insertive or receptive partner, condomless sex, or any other practice)

No.

11] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated through oral sex? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

This has never happened in the history of medical science. Anywhere.

12] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated being in a serodiscordant relationship, by his partner? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

No (and most of our friends are in long-term serodiscordant relationships)

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been contaminated? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)

I find your questions about oral sex disturbing - and the use of the word "contaminated" is clunky at best. It suggests you are asking questions about things you don't know very much about.  But yes, I know how, and it was through receptive anal sex with a man who had untreated HIV and an enormous VL, and his Prince Albert (penal piercing) ripped my rectum wall.

14] which other especific care do you or/and your partner take, regarding the transmission?

I take my meds and stay undetectable.

So now, my question for you - why are you conducting this questionnaire?  You seem to have a bit to learn about HIV transmission....

gruff, thanks for answering. and sorry for the use of the word contaminated.

yes, indeed, i have been asking questions about things i do not know about. i have been trying to learn all i can - researching it all on the internet, for example, about oral sex. and athough many say oral sex is no risk, my own partner says he seroconverted due to performing oral sex.

so, on my head, the thought "my partner has seroconverted through an activity considered to be no risk" is very confusing, and makes me confused about my own risk. that is also why, so many questions about oral sex.

and if i seem confused or ignorant about the things i am trying to find out, it is because indeed i am - although, trying to learn, trying to get informed, as much as i can. making mistakes, asking it in the wrong way (through a questionnaire), misusing words, still wanting to face it and to learn and to overcome my fears, to be with my partner, to have this relationship.

[tyranossaurusrex]

to everyone who felt offended and thought i might just be a total insensitive asshole, and to everyone who might have read this post and just decided to ignore me for me being too blunt / dry / offensive / clumsy on the way i presented my doubts and fears, could i possible have a second chance, to present my questions again?

my fears, my doubts, my curiosity about how other serodiscordant couples live their relationship, with care and without fear? especially, regarding oral sex and ejaculation on the mouth, which care do other couples take?

hoping to, at least, not having misused any important word, this time

[zach]

oral sex is not a risk for INFECTION (that is the word you were looking for)

never, under any circumstances... swallow, wallow, gargle, poz, neg... doesn't matter... IT IS NOT A RISK

i don't care how your partner says/thinks they were infected, there is more to the story... but it doesn't matter, what matters is you protect yourself moving forward, with accurate information

anal sex... if your partner is viral suppressed, and you use protection (condoms and or PrEP) there is nearly zero risk to you

you've read the most important study that applies to your situation, there is no need for anyone here to fill out a questionnaire

if you can't let go of your fears, talk to your partner about it, talk to a therapist about it

helpful hint... you are negative, not clean (trying to help you avoid the other blunder that pisses us off)

[tyranossaurusrex]

oral sex is not a risk for INFECTION (that is the word you were looking for)

never, under any circumstances... swallow, wallow, gargle, poz, neg... doesn't matter... IT IS NOT A RISK

11] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated through oral sex? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

This has never happened in the history of medical science. Anywhere.

guys, what about this article, for example, and all the studies they refer to, about transmission through oral contact, in the end of the article? http://www.thebody.com/content/art17165.html#biblio

i am not confronting or doubting what both of you have said before, i am only curious to know, your opinion about it.

[zach]

15 year old article?!

sure, two can play that game

http://www.aidsmap.com/Oral-sex-cannot-be-linked-to-new-HIV-infection-in-10-year-Spanish-couples-study/page/1414272/

tell you what, i'll concede some ground here... i spoke in absolutes on the internet, i should know better

how about "extremely low risk, and still hypothetical at that" there, i can stand behind that... i took that jewel from here

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=pr-rr-05

and for some commentary on that link, read this link, which talks about it at length

http://i-base.info/qa/1629

and then, when you've digested all of that information

loop back to your most recent, and most important study

the partner study, and put that into the context of your relationship

http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study/page/2832748

INFECTIOUSNESS AND TREATMENT AS PREVENTION

No-one with an undetectable viral load, gay or heterosexual, transmits HIV in first two years of PARTNER study

if, after careful consideration of all of that, you still can't be comfortable in your relationship with an HIV+ person

consider leaving him

[ohwell]

QUESTIONNAIRE SERODISCORDANT COUPLES

1] how long are you on this relationship, so far? (or how long had you been in one) 4 YEARS AND A HALF

2] are you the positive or the negative partner?
Positive
3] is the positive partner on medications? since when?
i have been on meds for the last 3 years

4] is the positive partner undetectable?
now i am.

5] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the receptive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)
condom always

6] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the insertive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)
condom, always

7] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who receives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)
no protection at all

8] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who gives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)
no protection at all

9] in which circumstances do you (and/or your partner) decide not to have sex, and why? (for example.: if you or your partner have a sore throat, a flu, etc.)
just when we dont feel like it, no particular reason

10] is there any sexual practice you don't engage at all, regarding the possible transmission of hiv? (oral sex, cumming in the mouth, anal sex as the insertive or receptive partner, condomless sex, or any other practice)
condomless sex

11] do you know (in real life) any person who have been infected through oral sex? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)
no i dont

12] do you know (in real life) any person who have been infected being in a serodiscordant relationship, by his partner? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)
no i dont

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been infected? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)
unprotected anal sex

14] which other especific care do you or/and your partner take, regarding the transmission?
i take my meds to remain undetrectable and we always have protected sex

[ohwell]

Questionnaire answered. I guess when it comes to hiv infection my partner know how the transmission happens, so it took time for him to get used to and lose the fear but he know understands that if we have safe sex and i my viral load is ud the risk of infection is practically non existent.

However before I started taking my meds my cd4 level got low enough for me to get pulmonary and lymph node tuberculosis, that was something he did not take very well, he didnt like the idea of possible tb infection from me, and he did not like the idea of going though tb medication if needed.

Anyway, it's not just hiv, actually we have protected sex and we dont worry much about it, but we always make sure he gets flu shots and stuff, when you have a weak immune  you try to ensure the people around you are as healthy as possible to avoid exposure to OI, im not saying this is the way it should be but im more worried about getting some other diseases from other people that are more easily transmitted than me infecting other people especially since we are having protected sex.

[magnoman]

QUESTIONNAIRE SERODISCORDANT COUPLES

1] how long are you on this relationship, so far? (or how long had you been in one)

Just over 8 years

2] are you the positive or the negative partner?

I'm Negative, my bf is positive

3] is the positive partner on medications? since when?

Yes he is on medications and has been for 2 years.

4] is the positive partner undetectable?

Yes, or at least was at the last test

5] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the receptive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

N/A

6] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the insertive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Condom

7] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who receives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Without condom

8] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who gives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

My partner won't let me engage in oral sex

9] in which circumstances do you (and/or your partner) decide not to have sex, and why? (for example.: if you or your partner have a sore throat, a flu, etc.)

The same as any other couple: tired, ill, etc.

10] is there any sexual practice you don't engage at all, regarding the possible transmission of hiv? (oral sex, cumming in the mouth, anal sex as the insertive or receptive partner, condomless sex, or any other practice)

I am far less worried about having sex than my partner is. His sex drive (or desire to have sex with me at least) has definitely suffered since his diagnosis 3 years ago

11] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated through oral sex? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

No. I also believe it hasn't been shown to have happened. FWIW my partner originally told me he thought he had been infected by a tattoo artist - also something that I suspect has never/rarely happened.

12] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated being in a serodiscordant relationship, by his partner? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

I know of one negative friend who deliberately tried to get infected and did so. I also know a few couples where a partner has been infected without knowing his partner was positive. I am unaware of anyone in a serodiscordant relationship who knew of each others statement where infection has taken place.

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been infected? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)

Whilst I am not the positive partner I know that my bf got infected from a university "friend of his".

14] which other specific care do you or/and your partner take, regarding the transmission?

He takes his medication and we use condoms for all anal sex.

[tyranossaurusrex]

has anyone heard of saliva hyper excretors?

here is a link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3111737/

that means, when people have a higher concentration of hiv in saliva, even when it is undetectable in blood. how can one know if he is a saliva hyper excretor? through which sort of test?

me and my boyfriend have been reading about it, and we feel confused. if the blood test shows undetectable hiv in blood, how can one be sure it is also undetectable in saliva?

why don't doctors check also the level of hiv in saliva, relying only on the undetectable in blood?

in the case of hyperexcretors, how could hiv be undetectable in blood but detectable in saliva?

then, we have also read this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3083326/ - a possible infection which occured through saliva only, since the hiv+ individual did not have any oral disease or bleeding in his mouth. in this case, he had high concentration of hiv+ in blood, and since infection occured through saliva only, possibly also high concentration of hiv in his saliva.

which made us thinking, wouldn't it be possible then, in the case of a hyper excretor, with high concentration of hiv in saliva (even though undetectable in blood), or in the case of someone not on treatment, for infection to take place through saliva only? just as it happened in this case?

even through deep kissing?

(considering this other article, which refers to possible transmission through deep kissing: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00048364.htm)

we understand, there is a standard public health message being given to a general population, which states transmission through kissing is impossible, as well as through saliva. but then there are exceptions like these articles, with transmission happening through saliva only, and through deep kissing. if the standard public health message does not apply to the individual case, then what should an individual rely on?

[Jeff G]

You can post all your concerns about transmission and discuss them in this one thread … no need to start a new thread if you want to continue posting about your fears of being infected.

[Gruff]

I'm going to be blunt (what else is new).

Anyone who tells you - or who tells people conducting a study - that they contracted HIV via oral sex, is full of crap.  Period, end of story.

[Jeff G]

I'm going to be blunt (what else is new).

Anyone who tells you - or who tells people conducting a study - that they contracted HIV via oral sex, is full of crap.  Period, end of story.

Thank you .

[mecch]

tyranossaurusrex -
Some of us have been around HIV since the beginning of the epidemic. 

Therefore we have been around HIV+ guys, HIV- guys, we have been around sero-discordant couples, for decades.

There are HIV- guys, perhaps like you, who are going to have very strong intellectual and psychological barriers and challenges to being OK in a sero-discordant relationship. 

There is ignorance, low information literacy, and some OCD obsessing and meandering - all combined -- which lead some people to a permanent state of distress in such a relationship. 

That is my reaction reading your thread.  Though it may not apply to you personally.  I have seen it dozens of times.

This means you also need to get a therapist to sort out how your brain works and can shift through with YOU -- "living with ambiguity" and "risk management" -- based on how your brain works, your information, IN COMBINATION with HIV science - how the virus is and is not transmitted.

If you are going to be "researching" the Internet for every possible minute, technical, exception that will add to the anxiety and fear that here is somehow a small risk, then YOU may constitutionally be UNABLE to maintain a happy and sexually fulfilling sero-discordant relation.  That IS a possibility you know. 

My suggestion is to take that "questionnaire" to a therapist and start discussing management of anxiety.

Take it from there.

[zach]

misunderstood and misapplied data

this thread isn't about someone you care about, it's about your fears and ignorance

for his sake, end the relationship

[tyranossaurusrex]

misunderstood and misapplied data

this thread isn't about someone you care about, it's about your fears and ignorance

for his sake, end the relationship

it just feels like every question posted on this forum which steps a bit further or beyond the common, wide-spread information given to a general population about how to prevent hiv infection, is treated with indifference and disdain, and even aggression.

zach, how did i misunderstood this data? how is it not appliable? why then, instead of simply attacking me, my fear and my ignorance, even my relationship, you don't explain it to me, how did i misunderstood it?

also, ignorance for me is to take whatever information is given to you, and not put it into question. regarding the possibility of transmission through saliva, how is the case of the human bite not to be considered at all?

what am i missing to understand there?

i would appreciate arguments and real answers, much more than simply offenses being thrown at me, or quick, one-word answers.

[zach]

the first article you linked has nothing to do infection, absolutely nothing

the second article you linked, i've highlighted some operative words

The potential risk of HIV-1 infection following human bite although epidemiologically insignificant, but it is biologically possible. There are anecdotal reports of HIV transmission by human bites particularly if saliva is mixed with blood.

not exactly a strong and compelling statement was it?

the third article you linked was from 1996, i'm disregarding it on that basis alone

since your first post here, the only thing you've done is obsess over your risk. not a word about your partner you care about.

and if deep kissing is now beyond your level of risk acceptance, if it's even a question in 2016... then you've regressed in this thread.

[mecch]

tyranossaurusrex
I didn't insult you - I patiently laid out my experienced reaction to what you are doing here. I sincerely think you should print out this thread and take it to see a therapist and discuss your anxiety there.  If you can work out a way to be sexual with your lover that will be great.

[mecch]

If you think HIV+ people who are complete strangers have the time to go into your minute OCD obsessing about risk, than that is also evidence of your navel gazing - that you don't realise your own position in the social networks of life.

[Jeff G]

Your post really belong in AM I INFECTED so don’t feel persecuted, we have been more than fair with you . I have told you over and over again via pm’s that the forum is primarily for people living with HIV so if you cant accept you are a guest here with limits to where you post then go find another forum to join.

You want to know about transmission … use condoms for anal and vaginal sex correctly and consistently and you will avoid HIV … if you need added peace of mind use PrEP . Its not our job to spoon feed you information that you can find on the site if you just go look.

At this point I doubt you have an HIV positive partner and are just another AM I INFECTED worry well who jumped ship because 3 free questions were not enough to satisfy your phobia surrounding HIV . Please understand the kindest thing we can do for you is tell you the honest truth and we have consistently done that. We are not here to be quizzed by HIV negative people with an HIV phobia … its offensive to us and especially the new members that are still dealing with the stigma of HIV . I am protective of our forum members so be warned you are on the verge of bringing out the worst in me.

If you want to talk to other people in a serodiscordant relationship in this one forum you better get on it … Im losing patience with you very fast.

[tyranossaurusrex]

At this point I doubt you have an HIV positive partner and are just another AM I INFECTED worry well who jumped ship because 3 free questions were not enough to satisfy your phobia surrounding HIV.

i find it incredibly rude, jeff, and even a bit bizarre, to say you doubt i even have a positive partner. as if i would need to make that up, just so i would have an excuse to ask the questions i have been asking. just so i could hide my fears, my hiv phobia behind the nice excuse of "only being someone who is caring for his serodiscordant relationship".

but then, yes, indeed i do have a positive partner, and yes, my worries and fears, my hiv phobia as you say, do come from my attempt (and will) to have a serodiscordant relationship.

[Jeff G]

And yet we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all if you had stayed in the proper forum as was requested . You keep insisting you should have a free run of the whole forum and should be able to post in living with HIV when you do not have HIV.

I have been more than patient with you and tried to explain why its important that you only post in this one forum. Just let it go and abide by the forum rules and all will be well.

[tyranossaurusrex]

how exactly did i "kept insisting?"

i didn't insist on anything.

i posted here.

then i posted somewhere else, made a mistake, you told me to only post here.

so i immediately stopped posting elsewhere, "running around", as you say, and restricted myself to only posting here.

i don't get how did i insist on anything.

[tyranossaurusrex]

also, maybe you should be more clear then, about the fact that the only people who are really welcome here are the hiv+ people with their issues (their fears, and anxieties, and obsessions, and doubts - whatever), but not really the - people with theirs.

even if the - are in a serodiscordant relationship, living with the virus too, in a way, a different one, but still, also with a lot of questions, doubts, anxieties and fears of their own, that come along with it.

also: i have been discussing the issue with a psychologist already, my hiv phobia. that to say, i am not expecting - or relying - on anyone here on this forum to be my personal psychologist and deal with my selfish issues. i am taking care of that myself, already.

i came here looking for personal opinions, only. personal stories and references. nothing more than that.

[mecch]

Tyranossaurusrex - you don't need to create drama here in this forum. You need a therapist to help you find strategies for dealing with anxiety anxiety and ambiguity.  If you think the minute or probably non-existent risk of HIV infection is the big hurdle to a sero-discordant relation - you probably are unaware of all the ambiguities and risks and unknowns that are involved in relationships.  They are going to challenge you, too. You are focusing on one thing.
I was HIV - in the 80's and 90's and had 3 serodiscordant relationships and my fear of infection wasn't much of an issue or it was a non-issue. There were all sorts of other challenges in those relations. Plenty of surprises!
Why not go get a few sessions with a psychologist or psychiatrist and see if you can come to grips with feeling OK in life generally, and in relations with others.  We can't really control a lot of things in life.  Family, friendships, jobs, and certainly love relationships can not be made into "sure things".  Lesson in reality for you, perhaps.

[tyranossaurusrex]

also, just to make it clear, my anxiety also comes from the fact, that my boyfriend who is positive said he got it in a way considered to be "rare", or even "impossible".

according to him, either through a guy cuming on his mouth, semen in his eye, or pre-cum around the butthole (but fucking with condom afterwards). these are the only three risk situations that happened to him.

then, thinking that he was extremely careful, only engaging in anal sex with condoms, but still he got it, that fuels my anxiety.

and it makes me think: but if he was extremely careful and got it anyway, i am going to get it too, even though i am being very careful, or at least, careful enough according to the "standard" message (anal and vaginal with condoms).

so, this is what makes me engage on "searching" about all these exceptional cases, all these very unlike possible ways of transmission, because i want to be extra-careful not to get it (when i consider he was very careful already, and got it nevertheless), or at least, more careful than he was (even though he was careful "enough").

because sorry, i do not want to seroconvert.

[Jeff G]

We gave you the transmission information already so there is really nothing more to add to that other than to say you need to be working with a therapist on your fear of contracting HIV, we can only do so much.

As for how your BF became infected … from what you shared its nothing unique, he simply is not sure how he was infected and no matter how many questionnaires and questions you post or may have the science and answers are the same… use condoms for anal and vaginal sex correctly and consistently and do not share IV drug rigs with a person living with HIV and you will avoid HIV. If you want added protection consider PrEP.

You can research HIV transmission from now to eternity and these simple facts will remain the same. You have been provided the tools to avoid HIV so use them along with the therapy you need .

[CaveyUK]

Some great points already been made. Just filling this out as I'm a little bored and a sucker for questionnaires

QUESTIONNAIRE SERODISCORDANT COUPLES

1] how long are you on this relationship, so far? (or how long had you been in one)

In this relationship for 3yrs, but been close for around a decade.

2] are you the positive or the negative partner?

I am positive (male), my partner is negative (female)

3] is the positive partner on medications? since when?

Yes, since January this year (post diagnosis)

4] is the positive partner undetectable?

Not yet, but hoping to be in the next month or two

5] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the receptive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

We don't tend to have anal sex within our relationship (bar sex toys), however hypothetically If I were receiving anal sex from a man it would be with a condom.

You didn't ask about vaginal sex, so I will answer about that also.....We currently use condoms for vaginal sex however the intention is to probably phase this back out to bareback once I have been UD for some time.

6] could you please tell me how do you engage in anal sex, as the insertive partner? (with condom, without condom, with ejaculation inside, without ejaculation inside, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Same answer as above

7] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who receives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Without condom for both receiving and giving. There is no real transmission risk.

My girlfriend does not like ejaculation in her mouth, so we don't do that. Again, hypothetically, if I were with a man I wouldn't have any problem with it myself (aside from standard concerns about other non-HIV STI's which is the same in the general population).

8] could you please tell me how do you engage in oral sex, as the one who gives the blowjob? (with condom, without condom, with or without ejaculation in the mouth, which frequency, or you don't engage at all. please share any other details, if you have)

Same answer as above

9] in which circumstances do you (and/or your partner) decide not to have sex, and why? (for example.: if you or your partner have a sore throat, a flu, etc.)

It's exactly the same as with any couple. HIV status doesn't play a part in that decision at all.

10] is there any sexual practice you don't engage at all, regarding the possible transmission of hiv? (oral sex, cumming in the mouth, anal sex as the insertive or receptive partner, condomless sex, or any other practice)

Aside from the caveated answers above, no.

Obviously, I am more careful at the moment until I get and retain UD status, but beyond that it is very much a case of business-as-usual for myself and girlfriend, and in the event we were to play with others (as a couple), any vaginal/anal sex would have to be safe (ie. condoms) but thats not only due to HIV risks, but a whole host of other considerations.

11] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated through oral sex? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

Nope.

I won't repeat the objection to the word 'contaminated' as I think you get that now!

12] do you know (in real life) any person who have been contaminated being in a serodiscordant relationship, by his partner? if yes, could you please tell me a little bit about it? (the details)

Nope. And the PARTNER study should be enough for you to get a broader view on this subject.

13] if you are the positive partner, do you know how you have been contaminated? (through oral sex, anal sex, needle, you don't know, etc.)

I don't know with 100% certainty, but suspect I have been positive for 4yrs and believe I likely caught it when playing with a bisexual couple where recreational drugs were involved and I received bareback anal. I base that on symptoms shortly after this incident, however I cannot be 100% sure as I have taken many risks over the years in a variety of sexual situations.

At the end of the day though, I don't dwell on it too much and certainly don't blame anyone but myself for taking those risks. It is everyone's job to look after themselves, rather than worry about their partners status.

14] which other especific care do you or/and your partner take, regarding the transmission? [/b]

Taking the meds every day.

[harleymc]

The OP clearly asks for people to disclose other people's HIV status.
This is clearly research that hasn't been run past an ethics committee.
This 'survey' is not going to add to scientific knowledge about transmission and it's risks.

Whatever happened to the policy of researchers having their fishing expeditions locked and their posting rights ceased?

[tyranossaurusrex]

Whatever happened to the policy of researchers having their fishing expeditions locked and their posting rights ceased?

i think the policy censorship of "locking" and "ceasing rights" might still be running, for the researchers.

thankfully i am no researcher (yet!), only a curious person, so i am still absolutely free to keep posting and expeditioning.

[tyranossaurusrex]

This 'survey' is not going to add to scientific knowledge about transmission and it's risks.

unfortunately the survey doesn't add very much to scientific knowledge, indeed, but hopefully your highly constructive post on this thread will!

[tyranossaurusrex]

This is clearly research that hasn't been run past an ethics committee.

also, in the country where i live it is not mandatory to send your personal questions to be analysed and censored by an ethics committee before asking them around to people, but i am sure an ethics committee would do wonders for my private life!

[mecch]

My 2 cents, OP:
I find you, your survey, and this thread in bad taste and troubled by unsaid purposes and motivations.

[zach]

We could all just agree to let this thread fade away quietly. Give Trex a second chance to make a better first impression