Is it possible for a 20 year old to live to or past 80?

[juju_114]

I have been recently diagnosed 3 weeks ago, I'm 21, and I'm about to get on treatment.I see articles telling me that I can live near a normal life span and some telling me that I won't.  I would like to know is it possible for me to live to or past 80? What is the leading cause of death among people living with HIV? Is it the medication or the virus that shorten our life span?

[Wade]

Hi juju and Welcome,
 
I deleted your duplicate posts and moved the last one here where you will receive the most support.

To answer your question, you will go on to live a normal and productive life and there is no set age limit, you could live to be a hundred. As for the leading cause of death among people with HIV...not taking their meds.

Tell us a little more about yourself and how you are doing.


Wade

[juju_114]

Currently, I believe I am pushing through it better than most. I just can't get the question out of my head on my life expectancy and health. I have read that someone my age can expect to live up to my early 70's, but I would like to know how possible is it to live to 80? To my understanding, the meds do suppress the virus, but if the virus is surpressed, why do we still have higher risk of other diseases  and a continue projected lower life span than the general population in some studies?

[Jim Allen]

Sure you could live to 80's but you could also be hit by a bus tomorrow. That's life.

The average populations age is not even predicted to be in the 80's with or without HIV so not sure why your focused on that age.

A lot of news is old or looking at older treatments and does not filter out route causes, the life people had and treatments offered to people. You used to have to wait to be sick to start treatment, we know know better and start sooner, some studies and older studies do not take that into account either.

Look here is a recent example published 2017, regarding modern HIV meds and the life expectancy is the same as someone who is HIV negative. The expected age at death of a 20-year-old patient starting ART during 2008–10, who had a CD4 count of more than 350 cells per μL 1 year after starting ART, was 78 years

Full published work: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhiv/article/PIIS2352-3018(17)30066-8/fulltext?elsca1=tlpr

You might want to read this posts, it highlights a few things on this very topic.
https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=51849.msg719533#new

End of the day, you should with treatment expect to live a near normal life span.
Can anyone predict your personal lifespan, no nobody has a crystal ball.  Will it be illness free? No, but the same is true for anyone no matter what the HIV status, its called ageing.

Is it a good outlook on lifespan, yes modern studies that do differentiate what decade someone started treatment or pre-excising conditions they had are positive (Pardon the pun)
 
Jim

[juju_114]

So as re you saying having hiv and getting on treatment at a reasonable amount of time will not impact my life expectancy?does the virus itself cause comorbidities (cancer, liver disease, heart failure, etc.) And accelerated aging or is the hiv drugs?  My apologies, I'm still new to this and I'm still trying to understand. In one ear I hear people saying I can live close to normal expectancy, although I don't understand why not just normal if treatment is as good as people say that are, and in the other ear people are saying I will get these deadly disease due to hiv such as liver disease, cancers, etc. How can I live a "normal" and "healthy" life if hiv causes all of these illnesses?

[Jim Allen]

How can I live a "normal" and "healthy" life if hiv causes all of these illnesses?

One day at time. Look you can either worry about what might be or just live your life, realistically your choices in life have not changed since your diagnosis. 

You would also have to be one of the most unlucky guys I have ever met to get that entire list of illnesses, now as for what you can do and what causes problems, well Wade said not being on treatment is the main one, starting treatment late is another.  What can you do is, take your meds, live your life and avoid the obvious factors that cause the issues like smoking, boozing, narcotics etc but also bad diets, no exercise etc etc . You are young, treat your HIV and than look after yourself, take care of your body and avoid the obvious bad things.   
 
Example:
https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/hiv-smoking

Now your medication suppresses the HIV, a lot of the unmeasured damage was from the past when people did not start treatment until they were sick, that is not the case anymore as guidelines changed so people start treatment sooner.

Also luckily a lot of the illnesses you can get the rest of the population get as well and with ageing, they are manageable and you will manage just as the rest do and treat them as you go. You are seen by doctors every 6 months or so and probably one of the most monitored patient groups around meaning if anything happens you most likely will pick up on it treated early.

- Happy days.

Short of it is statistically you are at a slightly higher risk for somethings but not others, and someone always is at risk of something, does not mean you are going to get it and at the age of 21 why worry? Treatments for illness are always advancing. Also if you are worried than focus on the many factors that play a role that you can control.

BTW, What treatment have you been offered or started on? Also what were your first lab results like as you are newly diagnosed? Have you had a follow-up appointment with a specialist?

Jim

[InRecovery]

When I tested positive in 1995, I was told I had about 5-7 years. Things have changed. There is no reason to think you won't make it to 90, as long as you are taking care of yourself.

I don't really care if I don't live to be very old. I have lived a very interesting, wild life full of risk. I've had my fun. You are young, so I understand why you want to live a long life.

[Tonny2]

          OJO        HELLO JUJU....I'M SORRY FOR YOUR DX,...I GUESS IT'S NORMAL YOU ARE FEELING THIS WAY, I'VE BEEN TAKING MEDS FOR ALMOST 23 YEARS, NO LIVER DISEASE, NO CANCER,,,IT'S ALMOST 30 YEARS SINCE MY INFECTION, I'M STILL HERE...PLEASE TRY TO LIVE A DAY AT A TIME, NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THE FUTURE WILL BRING US...YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT LIVING TO BE 80, WHY DON'T YOU THINK THAT MAYBE IN 10 TEARS THERE WILL BE A CURE, THAT'S CALLED POSITIVE THINKING, NOW THAT YOU ARE POSITIVE, YOU WILL HAVE TO BE POSITIVE ABOUT LIFE. DO NOT WORRY UNTIL YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO WORRY ABOUT, IF YOU WERE TO HAVE A PROBLEM IN THE FUTURE, I'M SURE, YOUR DOCTOR WILL TAKE CARE OF IT...ENJOY YOUR LIFE, FORTUNALLY FOR YOU AND ALL THE NEWLY INFECTED AND NOT SO NEW, LIKE MYSELF, MEDS ARE WORKING BETTER AND LESS TOXIC...KEEP MAKING PLANS FOR THE FUTURE, BE A BETTER PERSON AND LIVE EVERYDAY AS IT WERE THE LAST DAY OF YOUR LIFE, BECAUSE NOBODY KNOWS WHEN WE WILL DIE...I WAS TOLD, "YOU WILL LIVE ONLY TWO MORE YEARS", THIS WAS IN JANUARY 1995 WHEN I STARTED TREATMENT, EVEN WHEN I LIVED WITH AIDS FOR FIVE YEARS MORE AFTER MY AIDS DIAGNOSIS, AND HERE I AM, WEITING TO YOU...IT'S NORMAL FOR YOU TO FEEL SAD, DEPRESS, FEARFULL, IT WILL GET BETTER. WITH THE RIGHT ATTITUTE, YOU WILL LEARN HOW TO LIVE WITH THE VIRUS SO YOU CAN TAKE BACK CONTROL OF YOUR LIVE, WHILE YOUR TREATMENT TAKES CONTROL OF THE VIRUS...REMEMBER, HOPE DIES LAST...BEST OF LUCK, PLEASE KEEP US POSTED...CYBER HUG ON YOUR WAY                                                               OJO

[juju_114]

At the moment, I do not know my viral or CD4 count, but I believe I was infected 2 weeks ago so it's still early. I have an appointment with my hiv specialist on June 3rd. She wants to put me on Genvoya.

[Ptrk3]

Sorry to read of your recent diagnosis, but it really is good news for you that your diagnosis was determined so shortly after infection.  Your immune system has hardly been damaged, if much at all, really, so your CD4's are strong and plentiful, whatever they may be.

These days, the protocol is that those who are HIV positive should be placed on an antiretroviral regimen straight away to demolish the viral load and crush the HIV reservoir, so listen to your doctor and adhere to the regimen: you will live a long and healthy life and have full opportunity to achieve all your goals, hopes, and dreams.

Please continue to rely on these forums for support, enlightenment, and guidance.

[harleymc]

When you look at figures for life expectancy there are several things to look at to gauge their accuracy.

1 Is the quoted figure based on recent studies,  this is a a rapidly changing field, studies that are even five years old are out of date.

2 Does the publisher of the figure have expertise? Are they a recognised centre of excellence in researching and treating HIV.

3 Is there a break down of figures by co-morbidities, for example, with and without hep C,  with and without smoking, with and without diabetes etc etc? ... We can change our risk factors and our life expectancy

Then don't forget if the figure is say 53 years for a 20 year old, then that is 20 years plus 53, total of 73 years median expectancy. ie half the group would be expected to die at 73 or less, and half older than that.

[juju_114]

Hey guys, I want to thank you all for your help. I am new to this so I am still trying to wrap my head around all of this. Although you guys did touch on a lot of things which was very helpful, i'm still a bit confused on the topic of 'accelerated aging' and risk factor for non-HIV comorbidities. What causes accelerated aging? Is it the virus itself or the toxicity of the HIV treatment? In addition to that, why is there an increase in risk of things such as liver and heart disease? In my mind, although it is possible for us to live a normal live span, i'm thinking I will be in and out of the hospital because I would have to deal with other diseases due to HIV in my 50's or 60's while everyone else won't have to deal with things like that until another 10 years.

[Ptrk3]

I believe that the prevailing medical hypothesis is the "inflammation" caused by the body's immune system's fighting the HIV is a major, if not the major, cause that many researchers assert may cause "accelerated" aging in some people who are HIV positive.  For those successfully on antiretroviral treatment (i.e., on treatment and with undetectable viral loads), the inflammation may be significantly reduced, but still may exist to an appreciable degree.

Other factors, though, may contribute to aging--smoking, drinking--so it may not be the inflammation alone. 

There's no reason that you can't live a long and healthy life without illness as long as you remain adherent to your antiretroviral regimen.

[InRecovery]

I don't think the premature aging is as much of an issue now days as it was in the 80s and 90s. There is no doubt that the immune system has to fight harder, which can cause fatigue. Everyone knows fatigue can show on the face, which can make us look ten years older. As for myself, I have never gotten sick or felt fatigued at all. I do, however, seem to have had achy muscles and joints sooner than the average person.  For example, I started getting sore from housecleaning, exercise, etc. when I was only 29. It just seemed about 15 years too early. When I was 29, I had been positive for probably nine years. Other than that and drenching night sweats, I haven't had any ailments. I try to eat right, which makes a difference, but there are days when I want what I want. When I am being good, I don't always insist on organic, but I prefer foods without artificial ingredients.  Just make sure you are getting three square meals a day. Balance is important. Make sure you are getting proteins, vegetables, fruit, and dairy. I don't necessarily think carbs are evil. Don't just have a little sandwich for a meal. Get a balance of all food groups in each meal, and don't skip meals. Sleep is key to emotional, mental, and physical well-being. When your body is telling you to rest, listen. Another important thing is to find healthy hobbies because that reduces stress. Allowing yourself to have fun will make you happy, and it's been proven that happy people live longer.

[juju_114]

Sure, but ,Ptrk, doesn't chronic inflammation lead to combodities such as liver disease? I'm asking how much of a risk are we of getting them?

InRecovery: how bad do you ach just by cleaning up?

[Ptrk3]

Chronic inflammation can lead to a lot of things or not very much at all.  Many HIV positive people who have liver problems may also be infected by Hepatitis C. Others may have abuse issue with alcohol.  Who knows, really?

There's a bell curve for everything, so you can't really determine the "risk" of a single individual.  Statistics, such as they are, are done in the aggregate.

If you want to mitigate the problems associated with aging, just do what many HIV negative people do:  exercise, eat right, sleep well, drink alcohol in moderation, don't smoke, and don't fret about those things in which you have no control.  Mostly, stay adherent to your antiretroviral regimen and live your life.

[Tonny2]

             OJO        HELLO AGAIN...I THINK YOU SHOULD MAKE A LIST OF ALL THE QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE, LIKE THESE ONES, AND ASK THE SPECIALIST....GOOD LUCK, PLEASE KEEP US POSTED...HUGS                                                         OJO

[InRecovery]

Sure, but ,Ptrk, doesn't chronic inflammation lead to combodities such as liver disease? I'm asking how much of a risk are we of getting them?

InRecovery: how bad do you ach just by cleaning up?

I ache badly enough that I cannot sleep if I clean house, do yard work, etc. I can still exercise, but I can't go hard and fast anymore.

[Ptrk3]

juju_114: Tonny2 gives you correct and proper advice. Discuss your difficulties with your healthcare provider.  There really isn't more we can help you with over the internet.

Good luck with your progress and keep us posted.

[juju_114]

Tonny2: yes I see my doctor tomorrow and believe me when I say I have a list.
InRecovery: how long have you been positive?

[InRecovery]

I have been positive about 25 years (sharing drug needles). I tested positive 23 years ago.

[Tonny2]

Tonny2: yes I see my doctor tomorrow and believe me when I say I have a list.
InRecovery: how long have you been positive?

           ojo         Gello again...good luck with your appoinment, I can imagine your list, don't forget to take it to your appoinment, it happened to me almost 23 years ago...mayne you want to ask this question to your specialist, I have the idea that immflamation from hiv comes with uncontrolable virus, maybe I'm wrong...you only have to option now that your are hiv positive, start treatment or not , we all know what happens if you don't take meds, your viral load will increase and you will get OIs and will died, in the other hand, if you start treatment, you will control the virus  you will avoid damage to your immun system, and you will have a relative normal life, as far as toxicity of your meds, time will tell, meanwhile, do not worry about anything until you have something to worry about...I've been taking meds for almost 23 years, and I haven't had liver problems or cancers, although, I do have some gealth issuess due to meds side effects, back in the days, meds were so toxic, as a matter of fact, they are not longer in the market in the usa (hivid, zerit, videx, the "ds"), I libe with neuropathy pain and some lipoatrophy...now, mwds are better and less toxic, but, as I said, just time will tell how you will respond to your med, everybody is different...you are still a young man/woman, so you can make smart choices in your life, respect your body and your body will treat you good, comprende?...best of luck, let's us know how your appoinment goes...hugs                                          ojo

[3DollarBill]

juju,

Although I didn't get tested until 1990 I'm almost certain I was infected in December, 1982 (too long and dull to go into but I'm pretty sure).  I didn't start meds until 2004 but wish I had done so earlier.

Here's a brief outline of the early years to give you an idea of how much has improved:

https://www.fda.gov/ForPatients/Illness/HIVAIDS/History/ucm151074.htm

Back then I didn't want to take AZT and since my CD4 count was stable in the 700 range I declined treatment (Viral Load testing wasn't available until several more years passed).  As more drugs were developed and the first Protease Inhibitor debuted in 1995 the outlook became much better for all of us.   

There were soon at least two schools of thought: 1) start treatment when CD4 falls below 500 (later dropped to 300) and 2) start treatment as soon as possible after testing HIV+.  I felt the first view was more sensible since "no one knew" how long the drugs would be effective or how long we could take them without drug toxicity becoming a problem. I was wrong. 

I won't go into the long story but for about 2 years I had no insurance and was too stupid to get assistance from the local ASO.  In October of 2004 I saw a new HIV doctor.  My CD4 was 147 and viral load in the 10,000 range.  Without prescription coverage I opted to be in a clinical trial to test Trizivir, a combo of 3 of the oldest HIV drugs: AZT, 3TC, and abacavir sulfate.  Bracing myself for nausea and vomiting and diarrhea and all the unpleasant side effects I quickly found there were virtually none. 

Why have I bored the pants off of you and anyone reading this?  Because I'm 61 and have been taking meds for only 13 years but have little doubt I'd be dead if I hadn't started when I did.  I took Trizivir until early 2015 and my internal organs are just fine.  My CD4 rarely gets to 300 but with an undetectable VL and no other symptoms of infection I'm a happy camper.   I have no signs of premature aging and no problems with inflammation or neuropathy or other problems some deal with.  I'm very lucky.

You're young, are on meds that are much kinder to your body than a lot of us old-timers took before, and new therapies and treatments keep coming.  There's no reason you can't reach 80 and beyond with HIV infection.  Also, as InRecovery and others recommended, eat decently, get enough sleep, and try to do healthy activities that make you happy!