A Little PEP Talk

[thunter34]

Boy, I can't help but be floored by what appears to be a HUGE disconnect between the idea people have of PEP and the reality.  It seems like sort of an off-shoot of the "no problem" marketing of HIV meds for us poz folks: 

"You just found out you're positive?  No problem.  Take these and you'll be fine.  Side effects may include muscles, a fabulous tan and good-looking friends.  Now swallow a mouthful of these and go sailing or climb a mountain or something."

OK.  I'm exaggerating- but not much.  You never, ever see models in HIV med ads with PI paunch or sunken cheeks. 
We need more accurate ad campaigns.  Something like:  "Once a day dosing.  Dozen a day dumping."

It seems like this care-free perception of HIV meds is really spilling over into the negative population- based on what I read over in the Am I Infected? forum.  When I read people considering popping meds like Tic-Tacs and think back on my first encounters with meds...well, it gives me pause. 

I'm rambling.  Apologies for that.  I've just read it on here enough that I felt like typing something out about it.

Any thoughts?  Discuss.

[Miss Philicia]

Are you referring to the current craze amongst the (supposedly neggie) Gay Glitterati for popping Truvada pre-circuit?

Otherwise yes, I've long thought that they should use Lipo Man in HIV pharmaceutical advertising, and have even volunteered modeling services myself but to no avail.

[thunter34]

Are you referring to the current craze amongst the (supposedly neggie) Gay Glitterati for popping Truvada pre-circuit?

Otherwise yes, I've long thought that they should use Lipo Man in HIV pharmaceutical advertising, and have even volunteered modeling services myself but to no avail.

Yes, that and also the idea of getting a PEP scrip as readily as simply taking the test in general.  People don't seem to grasp how hard-core a month long regimen of these bad boys are.  And yes, I've seen weekend party packs that include crystal for the horniness, Viagra for the wood and Truvada to off-set any worry about HIV.

[Miss Philicia]

And yes, I've seen weekend party packs that include crystal for the horniness, Viagra for the wood and Truvada to off-set any worry about HIV.

Don't forget the extra surcharge for the imported bottle of FIST and the latex gloves.

Sadly though I don't think one Truvada pill is going to deliver any sort of benefit.  These silly homosexuals.

[pozattitude]

the adds should read:

free with your HIV meds you get the following at no extra cost...


[attachment deleted by admin]

[thunter34]

No, I doubt any benefit.  Contrary, I am wondering if it might have an overall negative effect with regards to the development of resistance and such.  If many of the people doing this random dosing are already actually positive (and I imagine that is the case much of the time), might they be advancing resistance issues by random, sporadic dosing?

[milker]

Are you referring to the current craze amongst the (supposedly neggie) Gay Glitterati for popping Truvada pre-circuit?

WHAT They do that??? OMG!

Milker (who was never a circuit boy)

[Dan J.]

the drug manufactures need to add this to their adverstisments...

If you act now we will throw in as an added bonus high cholesteral, peripheral neuropathy, abdominal discomfort and dizzyness with  a good dose of old fashioned depression, moodiness. And if you call in the next 10 minutes we will send you a free helping of brain fog & yellow eyes & skin. But waite, there's more! The first 500 callers will recieve a free case of anemia if you call today. Operators are standy by...

Offer not available in all areas, some restrictions do apply stay close to a toilet,  out of the sun & a lifelong commitment to drug adhearance is requied for maximum results. See your Dr. for details... Results may vary.

[cayucosguy]

Dan,
Thanks for the laugh!  Really needed it today!
You are correct tho - if we really insist on truth in advertising....
Vince

[Cerrid]

If many of the people doing this random dosing are already actually positive (and I imagine that is the case much of the time), might they be advancing resistance issues by random, sporadic dosing?

Of course they are.

But while it's very figuratively, the side effects to be mentioned in a modified advert are not purely of medical nature... insurance issues, poverty, stigma and depression are just as good. And don't forget the travel ban.

[J.R.E.]

WHAT They do that??? OMG!

Milker (who was never a circuit boy)

I had posted a link to something to this effect a while back. This is from the Advocate.com :

December 20, 2005

Some gays use anti-HIV drug as a preventative


The anti-HIV drug Viread, also known by its generic name tenofovir, is quickly becoming a popular club drug among gay and bisexual men, who take the medication in the hope that it will prevent them from being infected with HIV during unprotected sex, the Los Angeles Times reports. Use of the drug has become so popular that Viread is often sold in packets along with ecstasy and crystal meth at gay clubs and is even referred to as “taking a T” by HIV-negative gay men who use it.

Research is currently under way around the world to gauge whether Viread use can prevent HIV infections. Two continuing U.S. studies, in Atlanta and San Francisco, include sexually active gay men who are taking daily doses of the medication. Studies in Africa and Asia are focusing on Viread’s protective effects among sex workers and injection-drug users.

But AIDS experts warn that there is no evidence yet from the studies to confirm that Viread use prevents HIV infections, and they worry that gay men who use the drug instead of condoms could be placing themselves at high risk for HIV infection. A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study found that 7% of HIV-negative men had used Viread before engaging in risky sex, believing that the medication would protect them against infection.

“This is a very worrisome development," David Hardy, an HIV doctor at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, told the Times.

AIDS experts also say that even if studies show Viread offers some protection against HIV infection, they would recommend its use in conjunction with condoms, not as a replacement for them. “We would never recommend people stop using condoms,” Jeff Klausner, director of sexually transmitted disease prevention for the San Francisco health department, told the Times.

But some doctors already are prescribing Viread for their sexually active gay patients, particularly those who do not use condoms. For Mark Conant, an HIV doctor in San Francisco, the drug is the only means of protection some of his patients will use. "What choice do I have? Everyone knows condoms work, but they're not using them,” he told the Times. "All I am trying to do is reduce the risk that people harm themselves." So far, he says, two of his patients he describes as “very sexually active” who regularly use the drug have remained free of HIV infection.

Health officials in San Francisco plan to survey gay men next year to determine how many of them are using Viread either in conjunction with or as a replacement for condoms. If the rates are high, the city may launch an educational campaign to inform gay men of the risks of relying on an unproved HIV prevention method. (Advocate.com)



Ray

[milker]

wow thanks J.R.E.

[Miss Philicia]

I'm sure this has been going on for 5 years at least already.

[jack]

the pic of the hump looks like my first one. how fun.

[RICKY77531]

THATS A BIG HUMP!!!!

[egello]

sure, i agree, its all about marketing, but also look at it from another point of view, say someone like me who was utterly deathly fearful of the side effects of those those meds, thus went on life without getting tested nor getting blood work done, and going about my business ignoring the fact that i was poz. until i got really really really sick, close to death, all because of my somewhat false idea of those meds' side effect.

now, yes, i pop them like tic tacs, live like those people on the ads, and luckily have no problem with them except for few minor immune reconstitution syndromes

[mjmel]

sure, i agree, its all about marketing, but also look at it from another point of view, say someone like me who was utterly deathly fearful of the side effects of those those meds, thus went on life without getting tested nor getting blood work done, and going about my business ignoring the fact that i was poz. until i got really really really sick, close to death, all because of my somewhat false idea of those meds' side effect.

now, yes, i pop them like tic tacs, live like those people on the ads, and luckily have no problem with them except for few minor immune reconstitution syndromes

I'm glad to hear that kind of response from you, egello. Glad to know you are doing well with your meds with only minor side effects. I'd like to ask you--was it those poised ads that gave you encouragement and fortitude or was it informing yourself through this forum and other means outside of this website. Which format truly informed and empowered you?
xxx,
Mike

THunter: Hope this is not perceived as a hijack--but rather a validation on theme.

[thunter34]

Mike:  Go with it.  You can't highjack my threads.  I like them to go where they wanna go.

I think that was an excellent question.

[egello]

it was mostly through trial and error, i tend to be very skeptical of everything that involves ads and money....

[egello]

the truth is, people in dissident websites, believe it or not are just as passionate about their stances as people on this website. frankly, if the mainstream media ie. the meds ads, advertised horrible side effect, i might actually probably never went to the doctor and took my hiv to the death kiln.

[thunter34]

So you are saying that a sugar-coating of the truth might actually encourage people to take steps toward dealing with an HIV infection? 

That's an interesting take.

[egello]

yeah, maybe, but i am sure those advertising comp. producers weren't thinking that way...

maybe just showing the positive aspect of those meds is better wording choice

[Ann]

It seems to me that society in general is becoming more and more willing to believe that no matter what ails you, popping a few pills will take care of it - easy-peazy-lemon-squeezie as they say on this side of the pond.

Depressed? Pop some of these. Can't get it up? Try these little blue numbers. Coronary heart disease? Drink some Benecol.

Forgot to use a condom? Take this stuff we call PEP and add a little zest to your life. (anybody else remember when pep pills were something truckers took?)

From what I've seen over the years in Am I, people don't know what they're getting themselves into when they request PEP and it doesn't seem that the prescribing doctors bother to inform them either. It drives me batty(er).

Ann

[mjmel]

Oh, Ann! I love popping pills. I love that those little blue pills give me a rise. I hate the blue haze I get in my vision (for hours!) as a result--so I discontinued them.
I love that the meds I am taking offer me a longer life here on Planet Earth. (Planet ApeShit, sometimes) I don't like the side effects but I don't dare stop taking them.
I love the way nutritional vitamins & mineral needs are supplied & packaged in a capsule.
I love the way some pills and capsules dry me up whenever I have stopped up sinuses and generally feeling miserable from the flu.
I love the way flexeril  & vicodin stops the pain in my back.
I love the way ibuprofen make a headache go away.
I love antibiotics. I love penecillin.
IMHO, some things about this era suck but pill popping ain't one of them.
I wish a whole balanced, nutritious meal could be capsulized. No bloating. No gas. No diahrrea.

 
Mike

[fearless]

One of the benefits of not having direct advertising of prescription medicines in Aus is we are not exposed to such sugar coated advertising for PEP.
There are posters and stuff about it in sex clubs and bars, but as it tends to funded through specific government campaigns it tends to be more pragmatic and informational.
The couple of people I know who have taken it, couldn't last the whole month because of the side effects of the meds. I guess when you are +ve you don't have much choice but to stick with the meds and try to overcome the side effects.
I can see where eggelo is coming from in a way, if sugarcoating it makes someone seek out PEP it may help them dodge a bullet, and perhaps the real side effects may actually make them change their behaviour. Odd, but maybe it works.

[Dachshund]

Can you imagine (at least here in the states) the look on the face of the uninsured when they're told by the pharmacist, "that will be $1200.00 please." I guess that is why you don't see any televised PEP advertising...marketing has done it's research and realizes very few can afford it.

[fearless]

this is what we get.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[mjmel]

First time I see posters. Government funds support the advocation of PEP? Very surprised to learn this.
xxx,
Mike

[thunter34]

That's the thing:  I don't know how many people could take a round of PEP and continue to function, to go to work & such.  When I started meds, I could barely stand up by the 3rd day of taking them...and that continued for a few weeks after. 

[RedDirtGirl]

That's the thing:  I don't know how many people could take a round of PEP and continue to function, to go to work & such.  When I started meds, I could barely stand up by the 3rd day of taking them...and that continued for a few weeks after. 

I am in a serodsicordant relationship and we had a condom mishap. I am just about done with my second week on PEP and I truly, truly do not know how anyone can function on these meds! I can barely move at all - I go from my bed to the sofa and bathroom and that's it in a day. AND I feel absolutely miserable almost constantly.

My boyfriend has been on meds for years and the worst side effect he has experienced is diarrhea. He's lucky I suppose.

Going through PEP has really opened my eyes! I do not ever want to have to take these meds again and I have a whole new respect for anyone who is dealing with the on a daily basis.

[dingowarrior]

I am in a serodsicordant relationship and we had a condom mishap. I am just about done with my second week on PEP and I truly, truly do not know how anyone can function on these meds! I can barely move at all - I go from my bed to the sofa and bathroom and that's it in a day. AND I feel absolutely miserable almost constantly.

My boyfriend has been on meds for years and the worst side effect he has experienced is diarrhea. He's lucky I suppose.

Going through PEP has really opened my eyes! I do not ever want to have to take these meds again and I have a whole new respect for anyone who is dealing with the on a daily basis.

My wife and I were told you only need to take TRUVADA (PEP) Before exposure ,the day of and the day after.
How long will you be on it?

[Basquo]

My wife and I were told you only need to take TRUVADA (PEP) Before exposure ,the day of and the day after.
How long will you be on it?

HUH?  I thought PEP was Post-Exposure Prophylaxis.  How can it be "Post" if you take it before the exposure?

I think the protocol at my hospital is 12 weeks PEP for needle sticks, if recommended at all.

[anniebc]

I think the protocol at my hospital is 12 weeks PEP for needle sticks, if recommended at all.

My Pep was for 4 weeks Basquo. that's the norm here in NZ/Australia..maybe it's different in the States..also PEP is not always recommemded after every needle stick, it all depends on the outcome of the blood tests or if the patient is known to be HIV+

Hugs
Jan

[Ann]

HUH?  I thought PEP was Post-Exposure Prophylaxis.  How can it be "Post" if you take it before the exposure?

I think the protocol at my hospital is 12 weeks PEP for needle sticks, if recommended at all.

Dingowarrior is talking about pre-PEP - he and his wife are trying to conceive. Red and her hubby had a condom break and she is on PEP. Two totally different scenarios.

Ann

[dingowarrior]

Dingowarrior is talking about pre-PEP - he and his wife are trying to conceive. Red and her hubby had a condom break and she is on PEP. Two totally different scenarios.

Ann

Ohhhhh..Thanks Ann for clearing that up for me. 

[MarkB]

the drug manufactures need to add this to their advertisements...

If you act now we will throw in as an added bonus high cholesterol, peripheral neuropathy, abdominal discomfort and dizziness with a good dose of old fashioned depression, moodiness. And if you call in the next 10 minutes we will send you a free helping of brain fog & yellow eyes & skin. But wait, there's more! The first 500 callers will receive a free case of anemia if you call today. Operators are standby by ... Offer not available in all areas, some restrictions do apply stay close to a toilet,  out of the sun & a lifelong commitment to drug adherence is required for maximum results. See your Dr. for details... Results may vary.

While I appreciate the humour, I have been reading this and other threads on the effects of meds with mounting horror. If that's the kind of life I have to look forward to on medication, then I'm not hanging around to find out.

Love to all,

A

[Ann]

A,

Many people new to the meds nowdays don't experience terrible side effects - and any side effects often fade within the first two to four weeks.

Trouble is, we only usually get to hear the horror stories. People who experience no or very little side effects often don't bother to talk about it - after all, what's to talk about if you're not experiencing anything?

And even if you do experience some side effects, you can change and swap your meds around until you find a combo that treats you well. Most times, the side effects are far better than the alternative...

Ann

[Oceanbeach]

HUH?  I thought PEP was Post-Exposure Prophylaxis.  How can it be "Post" if you take it before the exposure?

I think the protocol at my hospital is 12 weeks PEP for needle sticks, if recommended at all.

I believe in California it is 30 days for needlestick injuries.  I believe our Staff Nurse at the clinic, (retired) said he was on Trizivir for 30 days and couldn't finish the month.  Our Dentist at the Care Clinic in Long Beach had a needlestick injury right before she gave birth to her son.  I do not know what or if she and the baby were taking but I had seen them at Labs a couple of times.  Have the best day
Michael

[Central79]

My boyfriend had to take PEP after a condom broke on us last year. 28 days of triple therapy - I can't remember what it was but it included AZT combined with something plus Fosamprenavir boosted with Ritonovir. He was fine - he had a rash for a few days which soon faded and a couple of days of feeling a bit muzzy but was otherwise okay - so I'm fairly confident that my first regimen, which I hope will be NRTI based, will be as good/better than that as I will also avoid AZT.

I know there are some trials of drugs to see how effective they might be in preventing HIV before you are exposed, but haven't really taken much interest. To hear people putting their trust in an unproven pill before barebacking just makes me despair.

I think post-exposure prophylaxis is an important part of prevention and that people should know about it and be able to access it. I'm not surprised the US government supports it - it's a lot cheaper than a lifetime of maintenance therapy.

Matt.