Slow CD4 rise

[paintedroom]

Just off the phone with Nurse getting those infernal numbers again - My nadir was 50.After 1 month on genvoya and bactrim Cd4 rose to 150.Three months after that(today) and i`m at a rather disappointing 193.I was foolishly doing simple logical multiples in my head and figured i`d be way over 200.
The Nurse said that it was indeed slow and not to focus too much on the numbers(what choice do they have)..but that after age 40 that`s sometimes the case and it is also possible that it won`t rise much beyond that.Sucks !
I`ve read a few other posts on slow CD4 rise and wonder whether it is more typical of the older members experience here ?

[CaveyUK]

I think that CD4 levels can rise for quite a few years following ART starting, and it's not unheard of to have some 'spurts' along the way. Also, lots of things can impact CD4 count, including time of day - so it may be that your CD4 would register as higher if it were taken at a different time.

I know we all chew over our numbers all the time and I think thats natural. I've also applied reasoning a steady line increase and come away from the clinic disappointed as a result.

I think it's best not to focus on it now you are UD. It's a marathon not a sprint after all, and whilst 3 months sounds a long time at the moment, it's a tiny amount of time compared to the rest of your life.

[Jim Allen]

Hi

Besides the disappointment how do you feel overall health wise? Because as long as you are feeling good, healthy, enjoying life and the VL is suppressed than you are grand. 

My thoughts are the same as Cavey, we have all been in that position and I do recall being anxious and disappointed a few times. Really sorry to hear that you are going through this disappointment.

Now I reached a plateau a few times and thought that was it and would suddenly jump up again and start climbing for a while before reaching a new plateau. Maybe the same is going to be for you down the line.

But try not to worry, I mean end of the day your 193 CD4 cells could be far more efficient that someone who has 600 or 1200 of them and someone who has good CD4 cells does not mean better off as they could have a damaged system elsewhere.

Take it easy.

Jim   

[paintedroom]

Thanks Jim and cavey,i dearly hope your tireless efforts around here are being rewarded somehow.It can`t be easy reading and phrasing comment after comment on a daily basis.Perversely,i like to think you are in some featureless Orwellian sub basement in Co.Laois or Bognor regis or somewhere,pacing the room,drinking endless coffee and fretfully wondering whether you`ll see the sun again ?

Healthwise i feel good,still minus a mickey ..although as of today`s phonecall,it looks as if i get to see a specialist in the next couple of weeks.I`m not sure if they`re worried about the morally sensitive implications of giving an HIV positive man testosterone replacement ?The implications for me are much more practically mundane(onanism) and yet still have that existential necessity that is wrapped up in identity.Short of offering a Warholesque 24 hours footage of my listless member,that at least will form the basis of my appeal.

I can`t really complain.Independent of hiv, life teaches you that there are few certainties.. and that stoicism is a better than average attitude when dealing with those darn vicissitudes.

Wishing you both the very best..more coffee ?

[Jim Allen]

Thanks Jim and cavey,i dearly hope your tireless efforts around here are being rewarded somehow.It can`t be easy reading and phrasing comment after comment on a daily basis.Perversely,i like to think you are in some featureless Orwellian sub basement in Co.Laois or Bognor regis or somewhere,pacing the room,drinking endless coffee and fretfully wondering whether you`ll see the sun again ?

Personally I do get the odd "fan" email outlining how my demise would improve their lives.  Its heartwarming stuff to touch people at that level. 

I`m not sure if they`re worried about the morally sensitive implications of giving an HIV positive man testosterone replacement ?The implications for me are much more practically mundane(onanism) and yet still have that existential necessity that is wrapped up in identity.Short of offering a Warholesque 24 hours footage of my listless member,that at least will form the basis of my appeal.

Glad to hear health wise you are okay and I hope that overall things settle in for you.

For the testosterone appointment it should just be a check up before treatment or that is what i presume, can appreciate the thoughts about morals but i don't think the HSE cares much about morals in general to be honest and it would be odd for them to have any on this subject. Anyhow I hope all goes well and you are back to form on that front soon and seeing results back in your life quickly.

Lets just hope nurse Mary does not need you to provide any video evidence for file.

Jim

[paintedroom]

If the treatment is successful,i will post before and after vids here - from Dying Gaul to Imperial emperor...must rest now it seems.

[Tonny2]

         ojo        Hello my dear friend "thepaintedroom"....I know how you  feel after hearing those results, it happened to me for five years after my dx, the difference between your case and mine is, that you are still undetectable, which means that your treatment is working, in my casem my treatment wasn't working so, I was getting all kind of OIs even a lost almost all my vision...hang in therem eventually you will see your "soldiers" increase, you will see that for sure.

As for the testosterone treatment, I went through the same situation, hopefully you will get it soon....best of luck, and keep us posted please...cyber hugs                   ojo

[Almost2late]

Took me 2 years to get the numbers you achieved in just 3 months and I didn't feel any different from 100 cd4's to 200, just the relief of not having to be on batrim I guess..
I'm sure they'll shoot up soon.

I think it's best not to focus on it now you are UD. It's a marathon not a sprint after all, and whilst 3 months sounds a long time at the moment, it's a tiny amount of time compared to the rest of your life.

Words of wisdom that I heard on these forums but paid them no mind.. lots of unnecessary time wasted on worrying instead of enjoying life.

[paintedroom]

AGAIN THANK YOU TONNY AND ALMOST2LATE,I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING TO BE TRUE BUT THAT LITTLE IRRATIONAL VOICE IN MY HEAD IS SOMETHING OF A SLOW LEARNER.

I GUESS MOST FELLOW HIV TRAVELLERS UNDERSTAND SO MUCH OF THIS IS PSYCHOLOGICAL - BEFORE YESTERDAYS NEWS I WAS SURFING ON THE CREST OF AN HIV WAVE WITH THE "HIV" FADING INTO AN INSTITUTIONALISED 2 PILL PER DAY ROUTINE..NOW I AM SURFING INSIDE A HIV WAVE AND THE HIV HAS BECOME A LITTLE MORE VIVID..NO BIG DEAL,I`M STILL SURFING !

THANKS AGAIN GUYS,I DEARLY WISH YOU ALL GOOD HEALTH.

[Wade]

My CD4s stayed in the mid 300s for years, you're UD and will be just fine 

[harleymc]

In a few months your cd4s have already passed my level, after 5 years on medications.

Onwards and upwards, there's nothing slow about your cd4 increase. You have nearly 4 times as many as when you started.

[MrThankful]

Could be worse, my CD4 level is currently 20. I feel great though, other than some of the side effects of chemo. Stem cell transplant for me in a month and hopefully my counts will stat to rise up from there.

However, my VL is in control, and I haven't been sick...no sense in worrying. What is, will be.

[paintedroom]

Thanks again Wade,Harley,MrThankful,you inspire strength in me.

And MrThankful,i hope all goes well with the stem cell transplant.Keep us all informed.

[hiv_rizzy]

Mine has been slow too. Over 9 months from 16 to 137 (in February) but the viral load has been undetectable for many months now. That's the most important thing. Yes I can't wait to stop taking Bactrim but all in good time

[leatherman]

Yes I can't wait to stop taking Bactrim but all in good time

I took bactrim for 10 yrs, stayed itchy and slightly red the whole time - but NEVER had PCP again (twice was more than enough for me)

Of course, I was on the earliest meds and didn't even reach undetectable for 12 years, but that was like 20 yrs ago so my story isn't quite the same. LOL I just wanted to commiserate about stopping Bactrim. While it's a great drug for stopping PCP from happening (and trust me, you don't want PCP at all!), anytime you get to drop meds is a good time. Best of luck to everyone with those slow cd4s.

[2tcells]

your numbers look good to me. not to slow but for me they went up a lot at first and now 3 years later they still slowly go up, sometimes down but then back up. at 296 now