I'm not HIV+, I'm kidding, I look nice

[milker]

Another conversation online, I offered sex safe to someone, who insisted to bareback me. I said I was hiv+. Reply:

"You must be kidding You look nice!!!!!!!!"

I told him I was not kidding, I do look nice, and that I offered him complete safe sex and that he was going to take a serious risk had I not been honest. We're not done with the end of it.. And he was only 18. I hope he got a shock tonight that will make him think a bit.

This is really strange because I always knew the risk I was taking. I never thought that people are negative if they look nice.

Milker (who does look nice with his little bruises)

[Matty the Damned]

You know what? I'm totally fucking over this barebacking/disclosure/safe sex thing.

I reckon you should have let this moron bareback you. Who gives a shit? HIV is unstoppable, prevention is bullshit and we've already got it.

Why should we care about anyone else?

MtD
(Who knows Milkie bedded this fella)

[keyite]

Your experience really emphasises how long ago it now is that we had the mainstream information campaigns about HIV, at least here in the UK. It was impossible for gay men of my (and I suspect your) generation to miss the basic prevention message. So we assume every gay man knows. But a whole new generation of gay men are emerging who simply are not in possession of the basics. I'm constantly amazed at the level of ignorance out there - like the one I read about the other day, who thought HIV could be transmitted by sharing Ipod earbuds...

It is high time new mainstream awareness campaigns were launched.

[Queen Tokelove]

Believe it or not, there are people out there that think if you are poz that you are suppose to look like the neighborhood crackhead. Those who know I am poz thinks I look good. Others say it looks like I've lost weight when I know I haven't because I have been weighing the same for over 2 years.

I really can't comment on the disclosure thing because I have my issues with that. The young buck ought to be glad that you were open about disclosing. I know some would have did him and moved on, not judging but just saying....

[Jerry71]

It seems like it happens everyday. There is some Neg person wants to hook up with a Poz person and have bareback sex. Well I have to agree with Matty on this one if they are that damn stupid and really would love to get this damn disease more power to them. Maybe they would really like to take meds for the rest of there life.

[Carolann]

I don\'t think it is ever right to jokingly or otherwise advocate infecting others.

Milker, I commend you for being upfront with your sex buddies.

Carolann, who does not want to give this gift to anyone not on Christmas, Chanukah, or dey  birfday.

[milker]

Update:

the conversation continued, I felt a total change in how he behaved, he didn't really know what to say, and he suddenly disappeared in the internet pipes.

I know what you're saying, Matty, but I feel sorry for him, not for me.

Keyite, this is very true, we used to assume that everyone was poz and assess the risk. Now it seems like they think HIV+ people must be on another planet. Here in France where I am on vacation, I feel a huge disconnect between online dating/sex and sex clubs. In sex clubs most of the people used condoms without asking, those looking for barebacking were showing their ass in a way that was very clear for everyone (Matty, I did show my ass, but not shaking it  lol). However, online, it seems like it's a complete different world, everyone is beautiful and cannot be HIV. It's a bit different in the US I think, where people are still aware. I'm a bit surprised.

Milker.

[Carolann]

I can see why people may still think that people who look healthy are healthy. I certainly didn\'t know my husband had it till it was too late for both of us. If I had known, yes I would have protected myself, but sometimes this disease is the furthest thing from people\'s minds, especially the very young, who still think they are invincible.

Carolann

[Life]

So you think you have made in impact on your 18 year old buddy Milker??

I ask cuz no one made an impact on me, thus, here I be.....

Eric

[Miss Philicia]

. So we assume every gay man knows.

You're making an assumption that some floozie one meets on teh intranets is openly gay.  Many are obviously not... I don't know how many I run into that are obviously not.  Or rather "ran" when I used to troll for sex on my computer.

[milker]

So you think you have made in impact on your 18 year old buddy Milker??

I ask cuz no one made in impact on me, thus, here I be.....

Eric

I don't know. I don't care, I did what I had to do. Now if the little thing forgets this conversation or doesn't want to hear it, that's not my problem... I wish he had a cam so I could see his face though.. 

Milker (who's had much fun with negative and positive people so far in Paris)

[Miss Philicia]

Let me know if you score a hot deaf Moroccan on the dance floor at Queen!  Been there, done that.

[Life]

I don't know. I don't care, I did what I had to do.

Milker, I think you do care, otherwise this thread would not be...  To turn back the clock and have someone punch me in the nuts and say "Your playing Russian roulette with your life, yeah I know this hurts right now, but having hiv/aids lasts allot longer than a groin shot and hurts alot more to.."

Just sayin

Eric

[puertorico2006]

18 how suprising  lol .....sorry you didnt get laid though, but glad you were being honest ;-)

[Iggy]

I hope he got a shock tonight that will make him think a bit.

Sorry, but I seriously doubt it. 

[Queen Tokelove]

Sorry, but I seriously doubt it. 

*shakes her head* ......I agree...

[Nico]

Hell at eighteen..many years ago, I thought being a top was as safe.  I bet he is shaking his head and not the one between his shoulders.  Milker you did your best and I hope it got through on the smallest level.

Rog

[allopathicholistic]

However, online, it seems like it's a complete different world, everyone is beautiful and cannot be HIV. It's a bit different in the US I think, where people are still aware. I'm a bit surprised.

Milker.

Many are aware, many aren't! Look at this --> http://www.poz.com/articles/1971_11488.shtml

Last October, a person claim-ing to be a gay, HIV negative man in his mid-20s launched “Confessions of a Bareback Top”
(confessionsofabarebacktop.blogspot.com), his explicit, allegedly true diary of unprotected sex. Despite the glut of other explicit, allegedly true diaries of unprotected sex fighting for market share, Bareback Top knew his would dominate. And, sure enough, the site’s a sensation. The blog’s spicy subtitle might help explain why: “Publicly—a SAFE ONLY top on many websites including Manhunt & Adam4Adam but secretly—a raw cum-dropping top.”

[red_Dragon888]

You know what? I'm totally fucking over this barebacking/disclosure/safe sex thing.

I reckon you should have let this moron bareback you. Who gives a shit? HIV is unstoppable, prevention is bullshit and we've already got it.

Why should we care about anyone else?

MtD
(Who knows Milkie bedded this fella)

Wow

[Matty the Damned]

You bet, "wow". Matty the Damned's views about HIV prevention have changed radically over the last 6 months.

MtD

[Carolann]

Wow is right! Matty please explain, elaborate, enlighten us to your new found truth regarding HIV prevention. I am afraid of the answer and still hang on to the hope that you are just joking.

Carolann

[Bucko]

Many are aware, many aren't! Look at this --> http://www.poz.com/articles/1971_11488.shtml

Last October, a person claim-ing to be a gay, HIV negative man in his mid-20s launched “Confessions of a Bareback Top”
(confessionsofabarebacktop.blogspot.com), his explicit, allegedly true diary of unprotected sex. Despite the glut of other explicit, allegedly true diaries of unprotected sex fighting for market share, Bareback Top knew his would dominate. And, sure enough, the site’s a sensation. The blog’s spicy subtitle might help explain why: “Publicly—a SAFE ONLY top on many websites including Manhunt & Adam4Adam but secretly—a raw cum-dropping top.”

I get 10,000 hits a months when I'm posting regularly about the same thing, except that I serosort/disclose...everybody loves a good sex disclosure article if it's well written 

I also must agree with Matty (and when don't I?). Either disclose or don't, it really doesn't effect me down here in SoFla one way or t'other. The actions of the larger population don't enter my experiences and the whole "brother's keeper" argument is running thin. If there are still dolts out there lame enough to not understand HIV, then let them wallow in their stupidity. Something tells me they'll be posting here soon enough with either an "immaculate infection" thread or one that paint them as the "victim" of an unscrupulous top who should have worried about their health more than  the newbie did.

Aside-
Milkie_
Is that sex club in the shadow of the Hotel de Ville still as fabulously raunchy as it was the last time I was there?

Brent
(Who has sipped under the tiki hut at Keller Bar, too)

[Tempeboy]

Reminds me of the first time I hooked up with someone who disclosed their status.  I had never met or seen HIV in any form, apart from posters and reading about it.  I also thought the guy looked too healthy, I'm not sure if that was ignorance or innocence.

Milker, your honesty is commendable.  For me it's the only reasonable approach, even if we are let down by the reasonable response.  I've had other situations where people were not so honest - and if I met some of those people now........... .  To this day I remember and respect the honest guys, as I do regarding honesty about many aspects of relationships.

Milker - you rock.

[mjmel]

At eighteen years of age a person can still be naive on many things in life. So this kids comment is not so surprising. Milker did his part by disclosing. Responsible thing to do.
If we don't care for each other, then what worth is the human experience.
xxx,
Mike

[milker]

Milkie_
Is that sex club in the shadow of the Hotel de Ville still as fabulously raunchy as it was the last time I was there?

I haven't been there since it changed from L'Arène to Le Deep. 10 years ago I was a bouncer at L'Arène. Yes, me, 6'2 165 at that time, crying because I have two little bruises, a bouncer.. 

At eighteen years of age a person can still be naive on many things in life. So this kids comment is not so surprising. Milker did his part by disclosing. Responsible thing to do.
If we don't care for each other, then what worth is the human experience.
xxx,
Mike

His following embarrassment shows that he was not that naive about HIV..  His comments (you're kidding) may be..

Milker.

[keyite]

If we don't care for each other, then what worth is the human experience.

So very true. Being uninformed or uneducated does not equate being stupid or worthless.

[Carolann]

You bet, \\\\\\\"wow\\\\\\\". Matty the Damned\\\\\\\'s views about HIV prevention have changed radically over the last 6 months.

MtD

Please Matty,

Please clearly and unambiguously state your position on this.  Please don\\\\\\\'t be vague.  I for one would really like to know your position on this. 

So many times people make seemingly strong statements and then fail to stand by them ( I am not referring to you, or anyone on this website, I am referring to people in general.).  When something seems unclear (as this does to me) I merely ask for clarification.

Please clarify, and others, please let Matty clarify without trying to step in an give it a spin.  Not accusing anyone of doing this, just trying to prevent a direct question from being derailed

Carolann (who has seen one too many Bush Administration press conferences not to know how things get derailed and spun when a direct question gets asked)

[Dachshund]

Please Matty,

Please clearly and unambiguously state your position on this.  Please don\\\\\\\'t be vague.  I for one would really like to know your position on this. 

So many times people make seemingly strong statements and then fail to stand by them ( I am not referring to you, or anyone on this website, I am referring to people in general.).  When something seems unclear (as this does to me) I merely ask for clarification.

Please clarify, and others, please let Matty clarify without trying to step in an give it a spin.  Not accusing anyone of doing this, just trying to prevent a direct question from being derailed

Carolann (who has seen one too many Bush Administration press conferences not to know how things get derailed and spun when a direct question gets asked)

Matty's point seems pretty clear to me...maybe you should send him a PM and see if he wishes to clarify it for you.

[Carolann]

Matty\'s point seems pretty clear to me...maybe you should send him a PM and see if he wishes to clarify it for you.

I didnt know Matty has a \"White House Spokesman\".  Since Matty made this statement in the forum, I am asking him for clarification in the forum.  A pretty simple request.  I think people should have the courage to clearly and unambiguously stand by their beliefs.

Pretty simple.  Please don\'t try to derail this direct question.  Spin, spin, spin......

[Dachshund]

Oh I think you will find Matty is quite capable of answering you. It was just a suggestion love not a \\\\\\\\\\\\ conspiracy.

You do have a charming bedside manner.

[Ann]

C'mon people, enough with the hijack of Milker's thread. This thread is about Milker's conversation with a naive eighteen year old, not what someone said in a fit of pique.

Ann

[Carolann]

You have to understand that I do not know many of you well enough to know when a person is being sarcastic, ironic, or just plain kidding.  Black and white print of a computer screen can appear to be pretty black and white when you do not know the individual writing something.

That is why I asked for clarification.  Because it is unclear to this reader what Matty was saying.  I am sure he will clear it up. 

Edited to add:
\\
My apologies for the hijack.

[Dachshund]

Sorry Ann...message received.

[milker]

I understand Matty's response, it's always our responsabilities, we're the ones that have to say everything, we're the ones that already have a dreadful disease and get slapped in the face when we do our best to offer safer sex, and when you see a naive 18yo (i'm sure I can find older naives) being at the verge of having been at a serious risk and saying "omg omg you must be kidding" as a thank you for being honest, and in 2007, after all the ads/prevention about HIV, say "You look nice for someone with HIV", you sometimes wonder if it's worth all the trouble, and if today, they think that HIV+ people look like zombies or what.

Milker.

[Miss Philicia]

I guess it just goes to show that being reared in a secular humanist haven like La France doesn't prepare the pubescents any better in terms of HIV education than our dour Calvinist infused democracy.

Or is this teen simply an anomaly for France?  Please take a survey in Le Marais!

[David_CA]

I kinda see it like being the driver of a car.  Sure, the pedestrian should look before stepping out in front of my car.  What if he doesn't?  What if he doesn't see me?  What if something distracts him and he somehow misses my approaching vehicle?  Is it OK for me to run over him when I KNOW that, in most likelihood didn't intend on getting injured?  I don't think so.  Sure, he should look.  He's a fool for assuming that I see him and that I'm not too drunk to even notice (not that I drive drunk, just an example) or that I haven't had a brake failure. 

Sure, it pisses me off when some dumb ass steps right out in front of me yapping or messing around with his cell phone with no regard to what's going on in front of him.  It's much easier for the pedestrian to stop than it is to bring a multi 1000 pound vehicle to a stop, but I still stop for those dumb asses.  I definitely blow the horn at 'em and usually say something and / or give that 'friendly' single-finger salute, but I do stop.  It keeps me out of legal trouble and keeps me from having to live with the fact that I injured or killed somebody because I didn't want to stop.

I agree that all the arguments about people taking responsibility for their health are valid, especially when it comes to legislation about disclosure.  Those arguments wouldn't help me sleep better at night, though.

David

[Carolann]

I understand Matty's response, it's always our responsabilities, we're the ones that have to say everything, we're the ones that already have a dreadful disease and get slapped in the face when we do our best to offer safer sex, and when you see a naive 18yo (i'm sure I can find older naives) being at the verge of having been at a serious risk and saying "omg omg you must be kidding" as a thank you for being honest, and in 2007, after all the ads/prevention about HIV, say "You look nice for someone with HIV", you sometimes wonder if it's worth all the trouble, and if today, they think that HIV+ people look like zombies or what.

Milker.

Thank you Milker,

I think I understand a little better where people are coming from.

Carol

[red_Dragon888]

maybe hiv is unstopable for so many people, gay or otherwise, are willing to have unprotected sex.  it's like built into our genes to let our dicks or vaginas do the thinking and our brains after the fact. and what is worrying is that some infected people, knowingly, don't care if they infect others.  it is almost like infect them all and let god decide.  i am on angel, but when i do have sex, i want a condom for me i just don't want to catch anyother stds nor do i want to pass any.  but is most troubling is that hiv and aids is like not mentioned in the news.  i mean there are even sloppy anti smoking commericals but no televised commericals on stopping the spread of aids/hiv.  maybe that is the real delemmia.  if it is not discussed on television, it just don' exist. 

[Miss Philicia]

On the plus side, every 18 year old now knows how to use the internet so indeed the information is VERY VERY accessible.  This was not the case just ten years ago.

Yes, I'd still prefer more public education efforts by other avenues, but I'm just trying to impart some perspective.

[mjmel]

I guess it just goes to show that being reared in a secular humanist haven like La France doesn't prepare the pubescents any better in terms of HIV education than our dour Calvinist infused democracy.

WOW! Philly, that is quite a statement. Holy Shit! Merde Sainte!

Mike

[red_Dragon888]

On the plus side, every 18 year old now knows how to use the internet so indeed the information is VERY VERY accessible.  This was not the case just ten years ago.

Yes, I'd still prefer more public education efforts by other avenues, but I'm just trying to impart some perspective.

how many 18 year olds knows or want to know this web site

[Iggy]

On the plus side, every 18 year old now knows how to use the internet so indeed the information is VERY VERY accessible.  This was not the case just ten years ago.

Yes, I'd still prefer more public education efforts by other avenues, but I'm just trying to impart some perspective.

The problem with many isn't even the accessibility of information.  Growing up in NYC I was fully aware of what I needed to know in order to not contract HIV, but I went ahead and just decided to say screw it and had sex without condoms.   I wasn't exactly 18 but perhaps my mental state was that of a teenager.

Look at this board as an example that knowledge (and access to it)  doesn't equal enlightened actions. - In general we understand the virus and the immune system better than most people - yet how  many still rationalize away the risks to their health by engaging in bareback sex.  Sure there are qualifiers of sero sorting and having a closed group of fuck buddies but the bottom line is that it every time you engage in bareback sex you put yourself at an increased risk for many std's and the possibility (no matter how small) of a mutated strain that can wreck havoc on your current and future treatment options. 

Please understand that I'm not moralizing bareback sex - just pointing out ( with this enlightened board as an example ) that what happened with the 18 year old is the norm in my opinion - because it is a rare individual who "gets it" before they actual get "it." 

[Miss Philicia]

how many 18 year olds knows or want to know this web site

I guess as many as  you seem to think will want to watch and really pay attention to a commercial on television about HIV/AIDS.

My point is that anyone that age that REALLY wants to know pretty much everything about this disease CAN in fact do so.  This was not the case ten years ago.  I gather from your age listed in your profile that surely you must realize this simple point I was trying to make.  And of course I qualified my remark by saying I'd still like other public education made available so I'm not sure why you're running after me on the comment I made.

The internet is still a huge net positive for anyone who wishes to self-educate about HIV. 

Oh, I get it -- you're reading something into my comment along the line that I like to run around town screwing 18 year old boy ass without condoms.

[Miss Philicia]

Please understand that I'm not moralizing bareback sex - just pointing out ( with this enlightened board as an example ) that what happened with the 18 year old is the norm in my opinion - because it is a rare individual who "gets it" before they actual get "it." 

I guess.  I was only slightly older than that when I was infected and even in the 80's I knew to wear a condom during anal sex.  The mistake was mine even absent a lot of information.  I'd been reading Honcho since 17... I knew all about AIDS or as much as you could know at the time.

Mind you, I'm not absolving responsibility of the other partner.  But the word "partner" implies, well, two people both with responsibilities.  It's not that difficult.  Use a condom every time you have sex if you're negative.  If you don't then you're asking for trouble.  Depending on your partner to even KNOW AND HAVE GOTTEN TESTED REGULARLY is lame.  Plus people LIE even if they know.  People need to use some common sense... I did most of the time frankly but hey, I screwed up.

[milker]

Oh, I get it -- you're reading something into my comment along the line that I like to run around town screwing 18 year old boy ass without condoms.

You don't?

I wrote to the webmaster of the website to tell them that it would be good to have a hiv box available in the profile. This could raise awareness I think (and help serosorting).

Milker.