POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: thunter34 on October 23, 2007, 11:33:51 pm
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To the Forums Family,
I have a proposal for this site for which I’d like to get your feedback. It's an idea that I suppose first sparked during my visit to San Francisco for the 2007 AIDS Meds Gathering, but has only recently crystalized in my mind. The AMG experience for me was nothing short of transformational, and I flew home in a euphoria from the connections I made and shared experiences I had with other members there. The weeks since have not been as kind...not for me, not for any of us who hold close to these forums and the people that inhabit them.
The truth is that I've been trying to put this post together for a few days now, and what you're reading now isn't a single word of it. I've been in the midst of a lot of loss lately, and it's taken a toll on me. I couldn't frame my sentences properly without becoming tangled up emotionally, so I'm typing as fast as I can and just spillng from the gut as fast as I can in a dash for the Post Button.
So here it is:
I would like to suggest a permanent Memorial Forum for this site, similar to the way that we have one dedicated to the AIDS Meds Gatherings. And I think it would be fitting for this new forum to be placed alongside the Gatherings Forum, as it first came to mind from AMG at its signature Memorial Event, and then a bit later during the trip when I peeked in on the forums and found this thread:
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=15608.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=15608.0)
Just as we were able to breathe life into the memories of these people and bring a part of them with us to San Francisco, so this post brought a little glimmer of the life of James to me and now he is tied in my mind as a part of that gathering as well.
I connect all of this back to AMG because that event is an extension of this site, so I feel it would be appropriate to create this forum as an extension of the dedications that are made there. If you look on the boards right now, we have these...
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16536.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16536.0)
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16597.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16597.0)
and of course these...
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16463.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16463.0)
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16525.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16525.0)
And there are numerous other links I could add to these. Doxie's friend, Chuck. My friend, Michael...
I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this. My personal mental image of it is as sort of our forum's version of a memorial garden, a centralized place where all such threads can be placed and will be less likely to get lost in the mix of other threads and won't get shuffled to the back as quickly. I also think it might be nice to have a thread stickied at the top of this forum where the moderators can add names over time, so their memories will have a more fixed place here.
I initially was only thinking of a sticky thread, and this is a bit bigger of a suggestion, but it seems to make more organizational sense to me in this form. I'm getting ready to hit Post now, and I hope it came out ok and didn't ramble too unbearably. It's here for your consideration and input. And to all of you...
Love & Stuff,
Thunter34
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Tim
It's a good idea.
Em
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Hi Tim
Personally I think this is a wonderful idea, but I have no idea what it takes to do this..hopefully more feed back will give us a better idea how to deal with this, go forward, and set something like this up, but I do like your idea of a memorial thread.
The memorial service's we held in Toronto, Montreal and San Francisco have become a very important part of the AIDSmeds gatherings and I hope they continue to play a important part, both here in the forums and in furure gatherings.
Love and hugs
Jan :-*
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I like this idea had a thought about this while is was veiwing the Quilt display Sunday at the AIDS Walk/Run.
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I totally agree. Everyone's loved ones deserved to be memoralized on the net. As time and this disease take their toll, the truth is, we will lose members. It would be very nice to have a place to keep our memories of them around to cherish.
At my personal blog (http://reigningpages.com/leatherman (http://reigningpages.com/leatherman) - which is almost 10 yrs old ;D), I've always had a special page in rememberance of my Randy http://reigningpages.com/leatherman/randy/ (http://reigningpages.com/leatherman/randy/).
--mikie
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Tim (and moderators/ owners), I think it's a nice idea. It'd be a place where we can post last words about a close person in our lives who's passed, or bring attention to to an HIV ally that's no longer with us, etc. I think it's important to remember these people, and it would be nice to have them remembered in a forum where they won't get lost in the day-to-day shuffles, discussions, and fights that take place in other forums. Let's work out some details and see if this is something that those in power will implement.
David
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Dear Youth Pastor Tim,
This is such aq great idea. An internet memorial for people who have touched our lives. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Have the best day
Michael
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I totally agree. Everyone's loved ones deserved to be memoralized on the net. As time and this disease take their toll, the truth is, we will lose members. It would be very nice to have a place to keep our memories of them around to cherish.
At my personal blog (http://reigningpages.com/leatherman (http://reigningpages.com/leatherman) - which is almost 10 yrs old ;D), I've always had a special page in rememberance of my Randy http://reigningpages.com/leatherman/randy/ (http://reigningpages.com/leatherman/randy/).
--mikie
And there you have it in your post and tinydaniel's right above. That is why I chose to request it as a forum itself rather than one thread - because of the centralization aspect of it. To use our dear Christine as an example, the initial thread about her passing as well as the (technically worldwide, mind you) candlelight vigil that transpired in her honor would be at home together in such a forum. And in including links like the one you just posted, mikie, we could essentially begin to assemble a "virtual quilt" of sorts, comprised of these threads.
I mentioned the stickied thread affixed at the top of this forum to be in keeping with the theme of permanent memorials, lasting testaments. I had in mind the names listed in the stones at the garden in San Francisco, but I suppose it would visually look more like the Veteran's Wall on the screen. When threads are posting about a loss, a request can be made to the moderators to now place this name on the list in this read-only thread.
There are many ideas that come to mind, and I am happy to see people coming forth already with these ideas and enthusiasm. I recognize the the establishment of a new forum may be daunting. I'm not technically savvy enough to really know, but my guess is that much about this particular forum would be easy to maintain once established.
Eager to see what further posts in this thread bring.
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All I can contribute, Timmy, is a big 2 thumbs up!
Our own, virtual AidsMeds quilt with members from around the world.
robert
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Tim, that is a great idea.
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Wow Tim! What an awesome idea! :)
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I agree. Sounds like a very good idea.
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I like that idea!
Alex
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Personally, for me, grief and memorial is private or for the few.
Today is Matty's birthday, 24 October, always a sad day for me, but I know he would rather be remembered as THE BOY WHO LOVED WELL and MATTY THE ARTIST not MATTY WHO DIED OF AIDS.
Life and death are part of surviving, and they fall unevenly. I well remember the axe blow of AIDS to my friends in the 1990s but many will not, and will never have a comparable experience. The memory is mine, or for my generation of queers. And there are other comparable experiences and disjoins which I would never claim to own or want others to own. It would feel dishonest.
I am unsure if any memorial to people passing and long passed can be incorporated very well into these forums.
As I get older, and the deaths of friends and family increase, I find it impossible to separate those with the virus from those without.
- matt
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Hi,
I already proposed that to Peter Staley and here is what he said:
"It's a great idea, but unfortunately, it would entail a new content area on the site. If I ask for this, it would be added to a huge to-do list on the tech-team's plate, which means it might not happen for up to a year. I find it very frustrating these days whenever I need something new like this -- it can take forever. However, I'll bring it up at our managment meeting, and see what folks think.
Peter"
So I hope the management meeting will go for it. It would be great if we can push this.
Milker.
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I support this idea very much.
It will offer us not only a place of remembrance but also perhaps a reminder that we are still dying
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Great idea...important to have a place for remembrance.
Hopefully it can be added.
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for the second time in 5 minutes, what iggy said.
this is getting scary.
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Timmytims, I like your idea very much. I also like the idea that the person does not have to be a member of the forums to be remembered.
AD
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Personally, for me, grief and memorial is private or for the few.
Today is Matty's birthday, 24 October, always a sad day for me, but I know he would rather be remembered as THE BOY WHO LOVED WELL and MATTY THE ARTIST not MATTY WHO DIED OF AIDS.
Life and death are part of surviving, and they fall unevenly. I well remember the axe blow of AIDS to my friends in the 1990s but many will not, and will never have a comparable experience. The memory is mine, or for my generation of queers. And there are other comparable experiences and disjoins which I would never claim to own or want others to own. It would feel dishonest.
I am unsure if any memorial to people passing and long passed can be incorporated very well into these forums.
As I get older, and the deaths of friends and family increase, I find it impossible to separate those with the virus from those without.
- matt
WOW, what a beautiful post. Grief and the complexities that surround it is handled differently by each of us. Thanks Matt, for posting something so close to the way I feel and think.
That being said I think Thunter's idea is excellent and would mean a great deal to others who would use it to deal with the grief they experience.
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Timmytims, I like your idea very much. I also like the idea that the person does not have to be a member of the forums to be remembered.
AD
I think that would be most appropriate, as we have a "Someone I Care About Has HIV" forum. Not to mention that the many in the membership here have very close relationships with other positive people who are not.
It will offer us not only a place of remembrance but also perhaps a reminder that we are still dying
Yep. That was my line of thinking as well.
Personally, for me, grief and memorial is private or for the few.
I am unsure if any memorial to people passing and long passed can be incorporated very well into these forums.
Matt, I understand where you are coming from in your feelings. The thing is, such memorials already are incorporated into these forums (as shown by several current threads). I'm simply proposing a means of corralling these threads, centralizing them into a common area that is specifically for them. The dedicating of such a space (rather than having them scattered in the midst of Living With and occassionally OT) just seems to be a respectful way of going about it. That's just where I am coming from in my suggestion, but I understand and respect your position.
And thanks all for your responses thus far. I acknowledge that the creation of a new content space involves a great deal of work, and I appreciate that it may take some time to realize if approved. I just think it's an idea worthy of serious consideration in looking toward the future for these forums.
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This is a great idea.
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Sweet Tim,
I love this idea. It seems a natural inclusion to the site. I will support your idea in any way I can. I hope the owners agree.
Love and hugs, Ric
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Timtation~
I strongly agree with what you have proposed here. I agree that sometimes these threads get lost in "Living With...." where they should be easily accessible and not lost. I feel it would be a great tribute to have our own "Memorial Garden" here on the site. I think "Memorial Garden" would be a fitting name for it, too. A place where we can post feelings, and song links, poems......
Its a wonderful idea.
Milker, thank you for writing to Peter. Even if this idea does take a year to come to fruition here, I still think its worth the wait.
We have all lost people that are precious to us. The serenity and calmness that I felt while praying during Christine's online memorial on Monday was very special to me. It was very cathartic for me, personally.
This new Forum is an excellent idea.
~ Cindy
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I was originally thinking about a book of condolences or something like that, but that would require new coding I guess. The problem with using the forums is that the threads disappear soon, but thinking about it maybe it would be possible for someone to make a new thread for his or her loved one in a new section of the forums, then people would "sign" the thread. It would be the easiest and would not require any new coding.
This would be a "sign the book" forum, no exchanges allowed, I'm sure people would understand and respect that.
Milker.
/edited to add/ Well originally I also wanted this to be OUTSIDE of the forums, to have more visibility. Maybe an external link that would link to the forum would work too.
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I'm all for any type of memorial, we must not forget those who have gone before us.
I think it's a great idea.
Alan
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What a wonderful idea, Thunter Bunny. Although, I have not had anyone close to me pass from AIDS, it would be nice to have a place to remember them. I can also respect Newt's thoughts about it. It seems like Peter is good with it but I agree that it sucks that he doesn't have the manpower to get it accomplished in under a year if it was to happen. I'm not knocking him for that, he was honest about it and wasn't trying to blow smoke up Milker's ass. Too bad there isn't anyone on the forums that was skilled at this type of thing and could volunteer to help get it done. If I was skilled like that I certainly would because I don't have anything but time on my hands. :-\
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Having lost two friends this year, your proposal gets my two thumbs up Tim.
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I also support Tim's proposal for a more visible and permanent space on this web site for memorials / remembrances. If this is something to be done outside of / in addition to the forums, I can certainly see that it would take some time to implement. It seems to me that it would be worth the wait.
Regards,
Henry
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Tim,
I think its a great idea support it wholeheartedly.
HUGS,
Mark
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Timtim, this is a wonderful idea. It might take up to a year, but the memories of the people I've (we've) lost won't fade.
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Let me clarify my PM statement to Milker (which I wish he had asked me about first before publicly reprinting -- it was a Private Message, Milker.. ;))..
Milker had asked me about the creation of a separate content area on AIDSmeds/POZ, kind of like the various "in memoriam" websites that exist now, and it was that idea that would take a huge amount of effort by our tech team. If we simply create a new forum here that is designated as an "In Memoriam" forum, but with a different set of rules and guidelines than our other forums, we could do that in 2 minutes, once we develop the necessary rules and guidelines.
Peter
P.S. I like this idea a lot!
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Thanks Peter, this will be a great addition to the forums.
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I'm not usually one to 'resurrect' old threads......but just wondered what was happening on this proposal. I am in a mood to "memorialize" this evening....
in fact, I've been trying to compose a list of everyone I know who died because of AIDS.
Alan
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I think it is a wonderful idea and needs to be implemented.
J
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Having lost trace of my grief and wishing I could express it more often and FEEL it, I applaude your idea and think of it as very compassionate.
In a way I have my own memorial site at home. On one of my bookshelves I have placed pictures, objects, postcards, dried flowers... all from people that have left this world and were close to me.
I pay tribute often by just saying hi or sit in front of it in silence and reread their final posts or cards to me, or look at their pictures, or hold their watch, or necklace....
I really like the idea sweet Timmy.
Hermie
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I would gladly add my son Justin and my late husband Michael to an AIDS memorial.
I think your idea is lovely.
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What a wonderful idea... I think this would be an awesome addition to our site and allow us to appropriately remember our loved ones. I hope this happens soon!
Gary
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That's an excellent idea, Tim!
Daniel
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I'm not usually one to 'resurrect' old threads......but just wondered what was happening on this proposal. I am in a mood to "memorialize" this evening....
in fact, I've been trying to compose a list of everyone I know who died because of AIDS.
Alan
Big, Fat BUMP.
So what's happening with this, eh?
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fully support this idea, full marks to tim xxx
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I'm going to use this thread to memorialise my son Justin. His birthday would have been on the 29th.
For the young man who will always be 4 years old to me.
http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/Winiroo/?action=view¤t=JustinsMovie.flv (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/Winiroo/?action=view¤t=JustinsMovie.flv)
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hey thumper....
I think this has just fallen through the cracks. There is certainly no opposition, that's for sure.
Why don' you send a PM to the Powers that Be (Ie....tim and peter) and ask them, in that southern, genteel manner of yours, to sh#t or get off the pot. In other words, open a new forum.
and while they're at it, they can move Winirro's message over there to give it the solemnity and respect it so richly deserves.
robert
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~~~~ PS ~~~~~
I just watched Justin's movie. It's 5 STARS!!!!!!!
A MUST SEE.
And it certainly does not deserve to be hidden somewhere in the middle of some thread.
It's a true memorial that belongs in its own forum
robert
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Actually, I just reported Winniroo's post to the Moderators along with a message that I was offering it as a gentle reminder.
Taking them directly to her post seemed as an effective a plea for the cause as any.
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Thank you guys. :)
I hope I don't get in trouble for hijacking this thread LOL
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Thank you guys. :)
I hope I don't get in trouble for hijacking this thread LOL
Please, girl. That's exactly the point of this thread. :)
(although your link moved me to tears in less than 30 seconds)
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I'm touched. Without him I likely wouldn't have known my status until I was very ill.
I miss him more than words can say.
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Done. It's right below the Activism Forum.
Sorry for the delay -- things have been crazy this month.
Ann will create a welcome thread soon, but you can start posting threads now. If you have ideas for the welcome message, please PM Ann.
Thanks,
Peter
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Peter,
Thank you for doing this. I think it is a service not only to the memory of those we lost, but to all that we are still dying.
Tim,
Thank you for starting this idea.
I have one suggestion which I admit is just a gut thing, but can we make one sticky thread that we can list the names of AIDSMEDS specific members? Somehow it just feels appropriate to always keep them at the top of the list.
Thanks again to both of you.
Mark
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Peter & Company,
Thanks you so much for this addition. It is greatly appreciated, and reminds me once again why I am so proud to be a part of this site. I have some dedications I'd like to make, but it's gonna take me a little while to work them up properly. Again, thank you.
I have one suggestion which I admit is just a gut thing, but can we make one sticky thread that we can list the names of AIDSMEDS specific members? Somehow it just feels appropriate to always keep them at the top of the list.
Mark,
I wholeheartedly agree. I had that same "gut feeling", and that's something that I also envisioned as part of this forum. We're on the same page with that one.
Tim
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I have one suggestion which I admit is just a gut thing, but can we make one sticky thread that we can list the names of AIDSMEDS specific members? Somehow it just feels appropriate to always keep them at the top of the list.
I think that's an excellent idea too.
I also think it should be a locked thread. Name additions can be made by moderators with a link to the specific thread next to each name. That way it won't become a jumble of multiple tributes. Each person being memorialised can have their own memorial thread with as many posts as people want. (because I'm assuming that where AM members are concerned, more than one person is going to want to have a say.)
I'm not sure if I'm being clear - I'm tired - so if I've confused anyone, please speak up and I'll try to clarify. ;)
Ann
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I also think it should be a locked thread. Name additions can be made by moderators with a link to the specific thread next to each name. That way it won't become a jumble of multiple tributes. Each person being memorialised can have their own memorial thread with as many posts as people want. (because I'm assuming that where AM members are concerned, more than one person is going to want to have a say.)
I'm not sure if I'm being clear - I'm tired - so if I've confused anyone, please speak up and I'll try to clarify. ;)
Ann
It is picture perfect clear to me and I am in favor of that.
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Thank you Peter, for providing us a place for remembrance.
I will post something there, when I can collect my thoughts and do justice to my loved ones.
hugs,
Alan
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I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this. My personal mental image of it is as sort of our forum's version of a memorial garden, a centralized place where all such threads can be placed and will be less likely to get lost in the mix of other threads and won't get shuffled to the back as quickly. I also think it might be nice to have a thread stickied at the top of this forum where the moderators can add names over time, so their memories will have a more fixed place here.
Ahem....post #1. 8)
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Well...Ann never was one to pay attention to details, you know.
Tim 1 Ann 0
*Iggy ducks a slap upside the head from a certain someone*
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In my defence, I haven't read the original post since it was first posted and ... well ... I've had a lot of water under the bridge since then. ;)
I did have a twist on it though - to include links to individual threads in each person's memory, so they can be easily found.
I see the first thread posted is a general thread. I had envisioned more a place where each person being remembered would have their own thread, with the tread title being their name and possibly dates.
The purpose of the sticky thread would be to provide a directory of sorts.
Ann
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Ann,
Indeed you did add a little twist...and a fine one at that! I think that is an excellent idea!
:)
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Just read your "lock" notice, and I'm putting in my vote for an initial sticky thread directory post at the top of the forum with a link from individual names to their corrresponding threads.
A thread of "general memorium" is appreciated, but I'd personally like to see an each individual get their own thread (however small the thread may turn out to be...mine for Michael & Derrick will likely only be my own post for each, for example).
Micheal Bruce (link to thread)
Derrick Jackson (link to thread)
etc...
Just my vote.
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A few thoughts...
If each person has their own thread, anyone who comes here and browses the names can post in the threads of people they knew. Posts can be made at birthdays and other significant anniversaries - or even just when you're thinking of them.
Ann
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I knew there was something else... (told you I was tired!)
Some of you may know groups of people you associate with certain places - clubs, ASOs, support groups, etc - and I see no reason why situations like this couldn't also have their own threads. People could then chime in with others they knew from the same setting.
Ann
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You and Tim have expressed a structure that I think most of us would agree is based on presenting a dignified place for our wishes to mourn and honor those who have died.
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I don't know anyone who has lost the battle with AIDS, but I think what you have suggested Anne, is a wonderful way to keep people at the forefront of the forum. To give each person their own thread so that those who wish to remember them could do so with others who knew that person would be wonderful. It would also, i believe, cut down on confusion and prevent feelings from being hurt when their loved one's thread was "bumped" to the bottom of the page, or to another page. This way everyone is on equal standing and only the replies within the person's thread would be moved around. When you do this, may I suggest that the individual people's threads be put in alphabetical order. This, too, will keep things from being percieved as having a heigharchy.
Mum
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I don't know anyone who has lost the battle with AIDS, but I think what you have suggested Anne, is a wonderful way to keep people at the forefront of the forum. To give each person their own thread so that those who wish to remember them could do so with others who knew that person would be wonderful. It would also, i believe, cut down on confusion and prevent feelings from being hurt when their loved one's thread was "bumped" to the bottom of the page, or to another page. This way everyone is on equal standing and only the replies within the person's thread would be moved around. When you do this, may I suggest that the individual people's threads be put in alphabetical order. This, too, will keep things from being percieved as having a heigharchy.
Mum
We could alphabetize the names in the sticky "directory" thread, but the Name threads themselves would move around according to when they were last posted in.
It wouldn't matter what page someone's thread was on, because they'd be easily found in the directory thread.
Ann
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That's what I was thinking, Ann, just didn't quite say it right. It's nearly 9pm - past my bedtime ;)
mum
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I just want to thank the moderators for establishing the Memorial thread.
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RIP: Fox, Jetta, Tamone, Nacai, Cedrick, and Shawn..
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I think this idea is great and your proposed structure sounds organized and very dignified. The only suggestion I might add is for some way that us LTSers could memorialize our losses without having to do individual posts or lists. There is no way that my heart could withstand the pain and horror of writing over 200 memorializing posts.
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Winiroo... I remember watching that video of Justin a long time ago, when I first met you. It made me cry then too.
What a sweet baby.
I would also like to remember our mutual friend Barbara Hoyt, who passed away a few years ago. She told me about your baby, cause he was at Bryan's house too - and the boys had so much in common, it was a tragedy for her to see your family go through that. I was originally scared to have my baby when I heard, but she told me it was worth the chance - and even as bad as things could be, she would still choose to have that baby and I bet you would have too. I know her words and your life, both of you mothers, encouraged me to be one too~!
Love ya,
Ah-Dee-Nuh :)
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Thanks hun. You know I would do it all over a millions times.
Love the way you signed your post. Helped me figure out who you are LOL