Author Topic: Brief Unprotected Insertive Anal (Read 14507 times)

Doctor_love · « **on:** July 27, 2014, 11:49:08 pm »

Greetings Andy, Ann, and friends - your work is very appreciated. I'll try to get to the point and only add a little background. After years of irresponsible sexual behavior (lots of unprotected sex with women), I was lucky enough STOP drinking, join a 12 Step Program, and test negative last October. I should also say that I've remained sober, behaved myself, and dated a gal for a few months. After we broke up in June, I tested for HIV again - it was negative (this was just four weeks ago).

In the past, I've dated some transsexuals as well, and I thought I'd try again. This time with a sober attitude and looking for more than a mere hookup. I went on a dating site, and met someone who was also looking for a relationship - not just just a one night stand. I'll use the pronoun "he" to describe the transsexual, simply because of biological gender (no offense intended to any transgender readers) We texted back a few days, chatted on the phone, and really connected. A few nights later, we met in public, connected just as well, and went back to my place to watch a DVD and hangout. We were both seemingly serious about our health, and I showed him my papers of a negative result. He assured me that he would email his doctor and get a copy of his recent negative result as well (he told me he tested at the beginning of this month, was HIV negative, and hadn't been with anyone else- and that his health was very important to him). So, I trusted him. And thus far, I was proud of myself for being proactive about my health. We began kissing, which led to mutual oral sex (he didn't ejaculate, but there was some precum). Thus far, I considered this NO risk. After some oral, he asked me to penetrate him, I broke out some lube ... and although I trusted him, I put on a condom as well. I penetrated him for a bit; but alas, I couldn't maintain my erection. I removed my condom and entered his anus for around 20-30 seconds probably (gentle, not rough movements). I totally trusted him, but I came to my senses, pulled out, and washed off. He proceeded to please me orally. I suggested that we go to a local pharmacy and purchase an Oraquick test so we could just assure each other of our status right there. He became offended - wondering why I wouldn't trust him - he assured me he'd send the results by email ASAP.

Anyway, I took him back home and we were excited to see each other again. At this point, I wasn't too concerned about my exposure because I truly did believe him. I'm also circumcised and again, the unprotected penetration was VERY brief and I noticed no blood, abrasions, etc. The next day, I texted him and asked if he spoke with his doctor - he claimed he was still waiting to get his negative results sent by the doc via email. Anyway, things began to get strange - he started to get irritated with me. He told me he would have to wait until next week (this was last Thursday - it's Sunday night now). I spoke to him on the phone and just suggested that we test at a free anonymous site by my house - they test every Sunday. I told him that would be healthy for us, since we talked about being exclusive. He objected. So, LONG story (sorry I'm so wordy) short, I ended up telling him that I was having a problem trusting him - that I was confused about his defensiveness. That's when he dropped the bomb: The last person he was with, he claimed, was positive. According to him, he had TRULY tested at the beginning of July ... and was clean for STD's when he checked with doctor two weeks after the blood draw, but his HIV tests were not ready yet. And, this was making him nervous. So, he lied to me. Not only was he NOT negative, but he is waiting for results which he thinks may, indeed, be positive.

Thanks for reading this ... needless to say, I'm beginning to climb the walls. I took another baseline Oraquick yesterday (which was Saturday - three days post exposure with him) and it was negative. So now it's the waiting game. I'm still in touch with him, and he says he's waiting for the results and will let me know ASAP. But at this point, I'm just going to assume that he's already positive - there have just been too many lies. I'm nervous - and considering getting a PCR from my doc. I didn't think PEP was necessary, but not I'm wondering if I should have tried to get it (too late now). So, assuming he was positive, my exposure is oral sex without ejaculation (but tasted precum) and about 20 seconds or so of unprotected insertive anal. Any feedback you could give me would REALLY help - thanks in advance. I just can't believe that NOW that I'm sober and trying to make healthy choices that this is happening ... perhaps it's Karma - who knows.

Joe K · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2014, 12:11:43 am »

Oral sex is not a risk for infection, however your unprotected anal intercourse is a risk. While it is harder to transmit HIV to the top, the only way to know your status is to test at 6 weeks past this exposure and then at 3 months for confirmation. Any tests you take before the 6 week mark, will be wasted, because you have to wait the proper amount of time before testing.

You should always assume that the other person is positive and act accordingly. You should be using condoms for all penetrative sex, every time, no exceptions.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to HIV testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine HIV tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than HIV. Some of the other STDs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid HIV infection. It really is that simple!

Joe

Doctor_love · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2014, 12:18:13 am »

Thanks Joe - the last thing I want to do is sound unappreciative for your prompt response. I guess I'm just wondering if I can breathe a bit easier (considering the VERY short duration - 20-30 seconds max, the fact that I have no abrasions, and the fact I noticed no blood, etc) as opposed to, let's say, having unprotected sex all night. I won't fail to follow the testing procedure - and again, I appreciate this site for all the information. Just curious about my "chances of infection" while I try to wait this out.

Joe K · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2014, 12:24:20 am »

As I mentioned, it is harder to transmit HIV to the top, so that is in your favor as well as the brief duration of the intercourse. It puts the risk on the low side, but low risk is not the same as no risk, so you will need to test. Personally, I think you will be fine, but only testing at the appropriate time can determine your status.

Joe

Doctor_love · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2014, 03:05:46 am »

MAJOR NEWS: I just spoke with the person whom I thought was lying, and they ended up telling me that they did, indeed, test positive at the beginning of July. This is like a nightmare - I can't believe this. I need some support here, guys. I can't believe this person knowingly lied to my face when I asked about his status. I can't believe that I had to pry it out of him on the phone for two hours tonight - listening to lie after lie until he finally broke down. But worse, I can't believe I inserted myself into this person without protection. I'm not a victim - this behavior is on me - I'm sure it sounds like I'm whining (I literally just found out 30 min ago). I know I have to wait, I know I have to test. And I will ... but if anyone can offer a little more assistance/information on my risk assessment, I'd really appreciate it.

BT65 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2014, 04:24:36 am »

As Joe has told you, even though your risk was small, it was not a zero risk, so you will need to test at six week post exposure and again at 3 months for a conclusive, accurate test.

I, also, have the same feeling as Joe, that you will most likely be fine. But if you do test negative, take this as a lesson and remember that until you go together with someone to test, you have to assume everyone is HIV+. And please get tested for all other STI's, as these are easier to transmit than HIV.

Betty

Doctor_love · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2014, 10:27:16 am »

Thanks, Betty. I now know it's the waiting game; and I agree - unless it's testing together face-to-face, I need to assume someone is positive. Honestly, though, I NEVER thought someone would lie about that - I truly did trust this person when they said they tested negative at the beginning of the month (only to FINALLY get it out of them last night that they tested Poz). Bottom line, I have to move forward.

But again, I'm mentally climbing the walls. I'm just five days post exposure, and I found out he was lying about his status last night - which was too late for PEP. From reading the posts here, PEP doesn't seem recommended for a condom break / dipping with someone of unknown status. And, since I only was inside the person without my condom for around 20 seconds (actually, I was probably in them for a shorter period as I counted 20 seconds this morning - it was probably more around 10 to 15) ... it was more akin to dipping.

Obviously, I'm going to continue to work my 12 Step Program, remain sober, and take responsibility. In addition, I'm going to try and wait this out with courage ... but every time I think I was inside the anus of someone who was recently infected, well, I start losing it a bit. Any encouragement from Andy or Ann would be appreciated. Thanks for listening, folks - your responses are greatly valued.

Jeff G · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2014, 10:37:36 am »

Its rare for the insertive partner to go on and test positive for HIV after a condom break with brief insertion so you should keep this in mind and expect to come out of this OK and a little bit wiser .

Doctor_love · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2014, 01:03:37 pm »

Thanks so much for the feedback. I just got back from my doctor, who is also an HIV Specialist (I found him last October when I was concerned about my status since it had been so long since I tested). Luckily, I was able to come into his office early, and I told him the entire episode of very brief unprotected insertive anal, including the fact that I just found out this person was positive. He simply smiled and gave me a big hug. He's a young guy, and he asked if he could speak frankly. He told me in very graphic terms how HIV is spread and that with my brief exposure (even though the person was positive), that my risk for HIV is negligible. He explained the fragility of the virus. He tested me for all other STD's, and agreed when I asked if we could have a Rapid HIV Test baseline done in his office. We did that, and it was negative (five days post exposure, which means nothing really). He also agreed to take blood for a PCR test because I REALLY wanted one; but again, he looked me squarely in the eye and said that he doesn't believe this incident warrants any testing for HIV, if indeed, I was being honest about my exposure. I assured him I was being 100% honest. He hugged me again, said he'd see me in a few weeks for the results of ALL the STD's ... and once again, told me I had nothing to worry about in regards to HIV. Needless to say, this put my mind at ease.

Jeff G · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2014, 01:19:12 pm »

Its great to hear you have a sensible doctor ... I only wish other peoples doctor were as educated about HIV like yours is and stopped trying to scare folks .

Its good you are armed with the facts but don't let your guard down and always remember that dipping although a low risk is not a no risk .

Doctor_love · « **Reply #10 on:** August 02, 2014, 03:37:56 pm »

Hey guys - from my post last Sunday, I made it clear that my exposure was unprotected oral (giving and receiving - no ejaculation) and brief unprotected insertive anal (when I took a condom off and inserted my bare penis inside this person briefly before putting another condom on). This exposure happened with someone who assured me they were negative (I asked repeatedly) to then confessing they were positive four days later. I know - a nightmare scenario. I freaked. However, as I said, my doctor, who is an HIV specialist saw me five days post exposure, tested me for STD's, and basically said I had no REAL risk for HIV infection after explaining to me - in detail - how the patients he sees (and his research done) have been infected.

So, I've been trying to breathe easily. I see him again a week from this Wed (on Aug 13th) to get results from all my STD tests - as well as a PCR which I requested. The results will be from five days post exposure. As I expected, I've been putting my body under a microscope - wondering if the next hiccup could be a sign of ARS. I want to be honest and upfront about that aspect before I continue. I know you good people read posts from the worried well ad nauseam - I'm amazed at how polite you can be.

With that said, this morning (10 days post exposure), I noticed some dried white/crusty markings on my black boxers, which I slept in. Immediately, I thought this could very well be chlamydia or gonorrhea. I'd take either of those in a heartbeat as opposed to HIV. But then, after doing a lot of reading, I found out that if the person was, indeed, coinfected, that HIV could have been transmitted much more easily. (By the way, I tested for ALL STD's including HIV a month earlier, and I was STD free and HIV neg). SO, in my mind, a high viral load (since this person says they believe they were infected rather recently - in March) plus a coinfection with another STD would make their viral load spike to GREAT numbers. Hence, even from my very brief exposure, I could have been infected with HIV.

I guess I just need to vent, and I'd appreciate any kind of reassurance. I know that I have to continue testing, I know the results are now out of my control, but if I did contract such an STD from this exposure, could I have gotten HIV much easier. I know you guys get bombarded with "what if's". And I know that, according to my doctor, my risk was practically negligible. But what if he had an STD? I see my doctor on the 13th, so I have 12 more days ... hoping someone can help. Thanks so much.

Joe K · « **Reply #11 on:** August 02, 2014, 03:45:57 pm »

We do get a lot of "what if" questions and that's why we don't respond to them. Nobody can tell you what your chances are of acquiring a given STD, only if you have had a "possible" exposure to any. We addressed your issue of the brief unprotected encounter and you know that only testing can determine your status.

You also have a great doctor and you should be reviewing your concerns with them.

Our job is only to provide assessments of risk. While we would like to be able to offer additional support, the volume of posts seeking assessments prevents us from doing that service.

I think you will be fine. Go do something and keep busy and stop thinking about HIV. You can't change your test results, so stop beating yourself up and hang in there, until the time when you can test.

Joe

Doctor_love · « **Reply #12 on:** August 02, 2014, 05:18:11 pm »

Thanks Joe - I appreciate the feedback. I guess I'll make my question more direct: I was relieved from my doctor's feedback, but now that I'm noticing symptoms which seem to be indicative of contracting chlamydia from this brief incident - are my chances now GREATER of contracting HIV? I know this seems like a pain, but I do have 12 more days to wait before seeing my doctor about my test results ... so any other words/feedback would help.

Joe K · « **Reply #13 on:** August 02, 2014, 06:58:36 pm »

Listen Doc, you are looking for assurances that nobody can provide. While the presence of an STD can increase a risk to HIV, you don't know that you have an STD, so why worry about things you cannot change.

I know waiting is hard... I get it, I really do, but wait is your only option until you can test. That's why I suggest you find something else to do with your time, so the time will pass faster.

Joe

Doctor_love · « **Reply #14 on:** August 02, 2014, 07:23:34 pm »

Darn you, Joe, you rascal - why can't you make it ALL go away?

I'm just teasing, of course, and I appreciate your sound advice. It seems like you agree with my doctor and think that I don't have a lot to worry about in this particular exposure and that I should stop obsessing.

Doctor_love · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2014, 02:49:59 pm »

Hey guys - it's good ol' Doctor Love again. I know these constant questions get old, but I thought I'd ask another one: rather than searching endlessly through the archives of old posts, I thought I'd ask if ANY of you working on this forum have every seen a poster on the "Am I Infected" forum go on to test positive after a very brief (meaning 20 seconds or so) and one-time exposure being the insertive partner of unprotected anal. I guess I'm wondering for my own selfish reassurance during this window period. And, it would probably save me a lot of hours searching when I should be enjoying the world outside. Thanks in advance, folks - your work and patience is commendable.

Joe K · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2014, 03:09:10 pm »

Quote from: Doctor_love on August 04, 2014, 02:49:59 pm

Hey guys - it's good ol' Doctor Love again. I know these constant questions get old, but I thought I'd ask another one: rather than searching endlessly through the archives of old posts, I thought I'd ask if ANY of you working on this forum have every seen a poster on the "Am I Infected" forum go on to test positive after a very brief (meaning 20 seconds or so) and one-time exposure being the insertive partner of unprotected anal. I guess I'm wondering for my own selfish reassurance during this window period. And, it would probably save me a lot of hours searching when I should be enjoying the world outside. Thanks in advance, folks - your work and patience is commendable.

Hey Doc,

As much as you want an answer, there is not one, because what happens to other people does not apply to you, simply because they are not you. I really think you will come out of this just fine. It would be rare for you to become infected from such a brief exposure and that is reflected by our experience in this forum.

For your own good, get off the net and go outside and do something, ANYTHING so you stop obsessing over something that you have absolutely no control over: your HIV test result.

Joe

Doctor_love · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2014, 05:28:40 pm »

Joe - I appreciate your response, and empathize with all the questions you have to answer. I'm a school teacher and a father ... and have really been prudent about my health since my sobriety. At the beginning of the summer I had all my bloodwork taken for everything, and it was ALL Ok. In addition, I was tested just last Monday (5 days post exposure) - again, I was negative. I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that fact that I was directly lied to - literally deceived - by someone who I trusted. We met online - looking for the same thing - exclusive dating. We talked on the phone a lot. And I was assured that he would send me his negative results via email the day after we were together. Even with all this information, I still used protection, until in between condoms ... I inserted myself (as said) for 20 seconds MAX (and gently). I then pulled out, cleaned off, and put on another condom. And then - through a series of multiple lies and multiple phone chats - I found out he recently tested positive. I get it - I'm still responsible ... but the thought of knowing I was inside of someone who just tested positive is truly a lot to handle. My doctor helped, but now I must wait - and it's tough.

I know I'm in the obsessive bubble; but again, I don't feel I'm out of control ... I'm just looking for some reassurance. That's all. This place is a safe haven where I can get some feedback ... I don't feel my case is the same as some frightened soul who got a handjob from a stranger, you know?

Hence, my question about whether you've seen an infection take place from such a brief insertive exposure. From the looks of what Ann and Andy have written, they have yet to see someone turn positive - I was just wondering if that was a "collective" experience thus far from the forum moderators as a whole.

Thanks for being compassionate ... it's easy to tell you're all very good people here. I just need a few words of encouragement while I wait. That's all. Sorry if I'm coming off as annoying.

Joe K · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2014, 05:53:14 pm »

Hey Doc,

I understand your situation and my experience with folks becoming poz, after such a brief incident are the same as the other moderators. I've been poz for 31 years and actively involved with HIV prevention and half the battle folks have, with possible exposure, is to tame their anxiety. I have already told you that I do not expect you to have contracted HIV from such a brief incident. I, however, am not omnipotent, so I cannot determine your status.

You are asking for something that nobody can provide. You really need to get a grip. The combined experience of the moderators here can be counted by decades and we are very careful in our assessments.

Do I think you will test poz from this incident? NO. Can I or anyone else, guarantee your test results. NO.

Get away from here before you make yourself crazy. Trust me on this. You need to get a grip and control your anxiety. Anxiety alone can manifest itself in physical symptoms and while I realize you are concerned, the minimal risk of your exposure, does not warrant this over reaction.

Joe

Doctor_love · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2014, 08:03:41 pm »

Thanks for shooting straight, Joe. And thanks for all the hard work you put in - day in / day out - with your work on these forums. That goes to all the moderators here as well.

Doctor_love · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2014, 04:27:58 pm »

Hi folks - thought I'd give a recent update. I've been waiting - and somewhat patiently considering my obsessive personality - for today ... the day I was supposed to get all my results back from my doctor. My exposure is in detail above (reader's digest: brief unprotected insertive anal in between a condom change - approx 20 seconds. The receptive person was dishonest about their status - and days later confessed to recently testing positive).

Anyway, five days post exposure (and the day after the person confessed he was lying) I came into my doctor - terrified. He assured me I'd be fine, we did a rapid test which was negative as a baseline, tested for STD's, and he drew blood for a PCR upon my request. So, today (16 days later) I was supposed to get my results for the STD panel and PCR. I walked into the office (VERY nervously) and told them my name and that I was here for my follow-up for Aug 13th at noon. Believe it or not, the computers were down, and the doctor was not in. I couldn't believe it. They said the results had come in over a week ago and the doctor would have to go over them with me - they didn't have access to the results in the computer since it was down. I tried to explain my anxiety; but obviously, they couldn't do a thing. However, an assistant there ASSURED me that if there was anything at all on my STD tests or PCR to be concerned about, the doctor would have contacted immediately me and told me to come in ASAP. So, in that sense, he said it was good news.

Not fully relieved, I drove home and decided to purchase an Ora-Quick at the local pharmacy. I took the test 30 min. ago, and it definitely reads non-reactive. SO, thus far, 21 days post exposure, I have the good news of the doctor NOT calling ten days back upon receiving my test results (I'm going to see him tomorrow or Friday when the computers are up) ... AND a 21-day negative on my Ora-Quick.

Obviously, I'm not out of the woods ... but: 1.) My doctor's confidence that I'd be fine 2.) Not hearing back from him after he read my results 10 days ago and 3.) the negative OraQuick 21 days post exposure has me feeling that my doctor was probably right. That said, I'll continue to test out to the proper time. In addition, I will no longer take anyone's word ... because I was blatantly lied to - eye to eye. Sad to say, but unless I test WITH someone, I will no longer trust their word and more importantly, I'll use protection.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2014, 05:55:52 pm »

You have to always assume that the person you are with is HIV+ and take precautions accordingly.

Doctor_love · « **Reply #22 on:** August 14, 2014, 04:50:31 pm »

I completely concur, Andy. Just as an added update, I received my PCR results today, which were undetectable. That was taken five days post exposure; however, combined with my doctor (an HIV specialist) who said such a brief exposure is practically negligible AND a negative 21 day Ora-Quick ... well, I'm feeling confident (and hopeful) that I'll continue to test negative out to 12 weeks.

I haven't noticed any Private Message features on here, but for those of you who have been following my story, I appreciate it. I've learned a few lessons, but my MAIN lesson thus far is this: It was absolutely 100% wrong for a person to directly lie to my face and say he was negative when he knew all along he was positive. No politics or biased involved here - it was plain WRONG. But what was even worse is this: I believed this person and took a chance by having unprotected sex (albeit brief). I will no longer assume ANYONE is being honest when it comes to their HIV/STD status, unless I test with them ... that's the bottom (no pun intended) line. ALWAYS use protection for unprotected intercourse.

Joe K · « **Reply #23 on:** August 14, 2014, 05:19:35 pm »

Hey Doc,

While it was wrong for the guy to claim to be negative, when he knew his status, many people simply do not know their status. It's why we suggest annual STD screenings, so people know if they have been exposed to something. That is also why we advice to assume that all sexual partners are positive, until you are in a relationship, where you can both test together.

Lying about a known status is one thing, just remember that some people, for whatever reason, may be positive but not know it. If you take precautions with every sexual partner, you never have to rely on what they do, or do not know.

Joe

Doctor_love · « **Reply #24 on:** August 14, 2014, 06:04:44 pm »

Point well taken, Joe - I completely agree with you. MANY people simply don't know their status - unfortunately, this person did. And I also concur with you about protection - I simply can't afford to take anyone's word for their status ... I have to take precautions at all times.

Doctor_love · « **Reply #25 on:** August 21, 2014, 03:24:13 pm »

Hello folks - I wanted to check in - I know someone made a post (I think it was Idontknowwhattodo or something like that). Anyway, I wanted to give everyone an update, simply because I know we all read each others' posts:

My exposure was brief unprtected insertive anal (in between condom changes) with a transvestite who eventually confessed to me he was positive. My tests were as follows: 5 days post exposure I had an anitbody plus PCR viral load. Both came back negative / not detected. At 21 days I took an OraQuick oral test at home - negative. At 27 days post exposure I took another OraQuick - and it was negative as well.

Oddly enough, my body is starting to feel a bit odd - not sure if I have a fever or not. I've read a lot about the window period, the sensitivity of the OraQUick tests, etc. Bottom line: I'm hanging on the facts: My doctor, an HIV Specialist, seems to think there is no need for further testing given (in his opinion) the VERY low risk and my test results thus far. However, you folks know how it is - something in the mind keeps me looking, checking, etc.

Anyway, enough rambling. I appreciate the fact that others out there are reading, and I appreciate the guidance of the monitors on here. Although a tad nervous at times, I'm still feeling confident that I can rely on my doctor's word and my test results thus far.

Forums Index

Welcome

Welcome to Do I Have HIV?

Author Topic: Brief Unprotected Insertive Anal (Read 14507 times)