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Author Topic: First time attempt to bottom scare  (Read 3320 times)

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Offline jd1977

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First time attempt to bottom scare
« on: September 17, 2007, 05:14:05 PM »
I am very concerned regarding an incident that I had involving oral sex. I was just tested in January and was negative and have always been very very careful  and safe. This past weekend I had a little too much to drink and did some experimenting with a person of  the transexual gender. I perfromed oral sex on them for a total of maybe 30 seconds at different times. Not once did I visibly see any precum---but when I was going to do it again I noticed that there was quite a bit of fluid and told the individual that I did not suck while fluids were present. This was my 5th male to male encounter and I always made them wear protection in the past. I also rimmed this person. They claimed to be negative, but anyone can say anything. I get so much conflicting information that it drives me nuts. The GMHC said no risk--dont worry---then the GMHC said risk worry----CDC forget about it! I even read a very controversial post on here that lead me to think I was in trouble...Should I get PEP...Whats the truth here...The post I read on here seemed very legit and the person was adimate abpout teh fact the caught HIV from oral sex...What should I do? Should I get PEPE. I only test once a year because I am always protected---Please help

Offline jd1977

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 07:56:55 PM »
Why hasnt anyone responded yet? Did I say something wrong?

Offline Ann

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 05:17:03 AM »
jd,

You didn't say anything wrong - your thread was simply accidently overlooked. It happens now and then. (sorry!)

You're worrying over nothing as it is highly unlikely for you to be infected in this way. Next to impossible, in fact. There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

Rimming isn't a risk for hiv at all.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence. Think of it as a refresher course.

While you don't need to test over this specific incident, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jd1977

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 05:23:43 AM »
Thanks Ann---I knew this information but after reading a thread in where someone was claiming to be infected this way----I thought maybe things had changed----alot of people were in his defense about being infected and many veterans were opposed to his supposed way mode of transmition.....If I dont need to test for this that is great...if I dont need PEP even better---

Offline jd1977

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2007, 09:16:31 PM »
What did you do that for?  I realize my life was great before falling to peer pressure to engage in sex.  I have decided to give it up for good or until I a get married.  Be very careful!


That was left for me in the private area by someone names IneedtoKnow--that was his user name......AM I at risk here or what----I already slept with my GF of 5 years and now I dont know if I made a mistake--everyone says no risk----or low risk----jesus....DId I make a huge mistake by putting a penis in my mouth for 30-40 seconds? WHat do I do? I want to put this behind me---but now I look at her and feel like I may have infected her----Its too late for PEP?

 
 
 


 

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 09:20:48 PM »
JD,

Please ignore anything INeedtoKnow says to you. He is in no position to give anyone advice about anything. Ann's advice to you of the 18th stands.

I've reported this to the Mods for review.

MtD

Offline jd1977

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2007, 09:41:29 PM »
Thanks matty---I really feel for how many times you guys have to repeat yourselves on here and the stress it must cause....I just feel like I have been so careful---and this one tiny oral exposure may have put me at risk....? Ann says no biggie---but she doesnt say no risk either....but there is no risk for getting oral....I know I have gingivitis and my mouth was dry becuz I was drinking and partying a bit---scared the saliva wasnt there to protect...What do you think?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2007, 09:52:27 PM »
First off, PMs are almost exclusively used by three different types of people. One, positive folks who want to further communication and establish more direct friendship; moderators who want to impart information and/or correct misbehaviour without embarrassment, and worried wells (Beyond Worried Wells, actually) who feel the need to perpetuate their own fear by transferring it to others.

I believe I can take a wild shot at the source for your PM. Please d not let it bother you. You CAN report it (and him) to the moderators, who have a VERY low tolerance for that sort of thing. But thanks for bringing it to the boards. You will find that cockroaches tend to scurry away from the light.

As for the oral worry, it's about as low on the risk scale as I can possibly imagine. Though several people HAVE reported this is their vector for transmission, scientific research clearly eliminates it as a viable method for infection. This is why patient report must ALWAYS be taken with a grain of salt.

Like when someone claims that in all their lives, they have never had unprotected sex, or drunk sex, or a condom break, et al. Never? Never ever? I know in my own life, I have had plenty of condoms break, loads of drunken sex, all that stuff. yet I have never, ever infected another person. And I practice safer sex with all my negative partners.

So as you can imagine, I sometimes have few friends in the positive community. Because they perceive I am basically calling them liars. I am not. Well, not necessarily.

Sometimes people forget. Sometimes people conveniently forget because we live in a society what, in addition to being sex-obsessed AND sex-phobic, also places SEVERE stigma against things like unprotected anal and vaginal sex.

 Especially for the HIV infected, where being an "innocent victim" seems to hold a great deal of allure for the recently bugged. By the way, the virus doesn't care, and makes no distinctions when destroying the immune system.

But long term studies show, and continue to show, and doubtless will continue to show, that HIV infection through oral sex is improbable. Impossible? I don't discount anything as IMPOSSIBLE. For all I know, I am typing on alien technology stolen by a young Steve Jobs. Would explain the new NANO.

But I would hardly recommend testing over, or worrying needlessly over, unprotected oral sex. It's simply not a viable route of HIV transmission. Other STDs? Absolutely. But as has been made perfectly clear by science, HIV is not an ordinary bug.

HIV is a retrovirus, which makes it even more complicated than, say, a herpes or HPV (the virus that cause, among other things, genital warts). It requires VERY specific cells (namely CD4 cells and specific dendritic cells) to latch onto, and start it's replication. These cells are simply not found to any significant quantity in the oral cavity. And saliva contains over a dozen identified enzymes and proteins which inhibit HIV transmission. In short, the mouth is the body's best defense against pathogens. As it should be. We eat with it, and often stick our fingers in it.

You have to decide for your own self what sexual practices with which you feel comfortable, and establish/maintain those boundaries accordingly. But I urge you to do so not out of fear or stigma, but based on solid science.

Luckily, AIDSMEDS provides, at least in this forum, advice based on that solid science.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jd1977

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2007, 09:57:43 PM »
Thanks so much JK----easing my pain slowly but surely. Um, how about the dry mouth---drinking---tad bit of coke etc....could that have caused my mouth to be more vulnerable? Especially with how painfully dry it was....? Could the alchohol reduce some of the salivas protective proteins? Last question...promise...

Offline jd1977

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Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2007, 10:01:48 PM »
PS are there any links to these studies? both the older spanish one and anything more current? Just so I can have it for my own knowledge and to further educate...others....

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Scared to death--ORAL SCARE
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 10:15:40 PM »
If such a simple thing as dry mouth and canker sores facilitated HIV infection, trust me, we would have made it happen to a monkey. Not to mention, the pandemic, as widespread as it already is, would be tenfold.

Here are a few studies upon which I base my assessments:

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/12wac/60770.html

Neutralizing effect of secretory IgA to HIV in parotid saliva of HIV-infected patients.

Int Conf AIDS 1998 Jun 28-Jul 3; 12:1142 (abstract no. 60770)

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/12wac/21143.html

Saliva neutralizes HIV-1 infection by displacing envelope gp120 from the virion.
Int Conf AIDS 1998 Jun 28-Jul 3; 12:267 (abstract no. 21143)
Malamud D, Nagashunmugan T, Friedman HM, Davis CA, Abrams WR
Dept. Biochemistry Univ. Penn Dental Med., Phila 19104-6003, USA.

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/4croi/412.html

Mechanisms of anti-HIV-1 activity of human submandibular saliva.

Conf Retroviruses Opportunistic Infect 1997 Jan 22-26; 4th:140 (abstract no. 412)

Nagashunmugam T, Malamud D, Davis C, Friedman HM; University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA.


HIV and saliva
An article from "The Molecules of HIV" (c) Dan Stowell
www.mcld.co.uk/hiv

J del Romero and others. Evaluating the risk of HIV transmission through unprotected orogenital sex. AIDS 2002; 16:1296-97.

Grulich AE, Prestage G et al. Oral sex as a risk factor for HIV: a review of Australian data, HARD Conference, Sydney, 2000.

Page-Shafer K et al. Risk of infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men. AIDS 16, 17, 2350 – 2352, 2002

Note: The Page-Shafer "HOT" Study, conducted until last year, was suspecded because after exhaustive research, they simply could not find ANY incidents of verifiable oral transmission. Of course, this study was funded exlcusively to follow receptive male oral behaviours (swallowing semen) rather than insertive oral or cunnilingus, which have both been ruled out as viable means of transmission.

An interesting, though admittedly softer science-based study seems to be underway to asertain WHY people claim an unlikely means of HIv transmission rather than simply copping to unprotected anal or vaginal. It is VERY telling that almost ALL patients who claim oral sex as their vector for transmission are male. I will be honest, I get bored searching for sociological stuff. It's just not objective enough for me.

I like my science like I like my bourbon. Neat, and undiluted. If it takes something special to make it palatable, it's not good stuff to start with.

Just saying.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jd1977

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First time attempt to bottom scare
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2008, 08:58:47 PM »
I was pretty drunk and did a little coke on saturday night. I was with a transgender pro and we performed oral sex on each other with condoms and then she was rubbing her cock on my asshole. There was tons of lube and she didnt full penetrate but I can feel the tip of her head inserting. I heard alot of plastic noises and didnt get to see the condom after. I have had this feeling maybe it broke etc etc. I have never bottomed before or even tried to. I am bi and closeted....which just adds to my anxiety...could there have been a risk? Is there even a risk if it had broken?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: First time attempt to bottom scare
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 09:26:56 PM »
You would have known if you were penetrated. Don't mix drugs and sex they don't mix well together. No risk this time but keep using the condoms and the lube.

Offline jd1977

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Re: First time attempt to bottom scare
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 09:32:56 PM »
Thanks RR I should know better----I am very safe---sometimes so safe that guys just dont bother---I just dont know if there was peneteration deep enough to cause concern---I saw him take the condom off but did inspect it or see it in detail...fngers crossed./

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: First time attempt to bottom scare
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 10:22:01 PM »
I agree with Rod. I wouldn't consider what happened likely to have been real penetration. However, mixing casual sex with drinking and drugging is a major red flag. It is exactly in those circumstances that all too many I have known through the years became infected.

I don't think testing is necessary in relation to this incident but you do need to wake up to the high risk level you're playing around in.
Andy Velez

Offline jd1977

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Re: First time attempt to bottom scare
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2008, 11:09:00 PM »
Thanks Andy---I have learned my lesson---when you say High Risk--do you mean mixing drugs or protected anal?

Offline Ann

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Re: First time attempt to bottom scare
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 04:17:04 AM »
jd,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

High risk is UNPROTECTED anal or vaginal intercourse. Protected intercourse is just that, protected, whether or not alcohol or other drugs are involved.

Re-read your entire thread for a refresher course - one of the reasons we want people to keep to the same thread. We've already explained these things to you.

Ann


Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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