Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 01, 2014, 10:59:14 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 636802
  • Total Topics: 48335
  • Online Today: 193
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...  (Read 12220 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Val

  • Member
  • Posts: 938
  • Praxitèles -- Satyre au repos
For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« on: March 04, 2007, 07:26:56 PM »
Being the admirer and lover that I am of this wonderful continent of ours (beautiful, truly free, generous  and democratic Europe), I just had to reply to Matty and Benjamin regarding their empty, pococurante   comments on Alex's  thread ""Ungraceful death"", which dealt with the situation of AIDS in Serbia.

First off, some quotes:
Benjamin wrote...""But it's easier to tut-tut problems across the ocean than fix them in your own backyard.""

Matty.le.damné wrote:
...""It always interests me that wherever I go,  I can find citizens of indolent and wealthy E.U. nation-states racing to condemn the Great Satan for all the worlds ills.
However, when somebody raises the dire plight of say, oh I don't know, people with AIDS in Serbia, it's entirely different.""

Well, there would be several long and boring links for you two to read had I decided to post them on here.  I chose not to. However, I will supply some information to help understand the tricky and thorny situation between the E.U. and Serbia/Montenegro.
The Thessaloniki Agenda is one of the E.U.'s documents for the negotiations between Serbia and The Union.

And just for your information, before a country accedes to the E.U. it gets an enormous amount of help/subsidies of any kind.  The road is really paved and well-prepared before that country acquires full membership.  It is done through several programmes. 
First, there is the ""Financing of Regional and Rural Development and Human Ressources."" These are the basic steps.  Next, there is the so-called Community Structural Fund which plays a determining role at the final stages of these talkings.

Serbia/Montenegro is already getting a lot of funds from Brussels be it in the fight against AIDS or other economic areas. The problem, of course, is how that money is being distributed to the population by the Serbian Government... I will not comment on that.
The Western Balkan countries get a lot of money from The Union, though,  from the famous Cards Programme (Financial Assistance) and The European Investment Bank(EIB).  In fact, just for the past year these two programmes have given away more than 7billion Euros to these countries...

Some (there are several) of the institutions in Serbia/Montenegro receiving European subsidies today are:

1-Jazas AIDS fighting programme (help from European countries such as France, The Netherlands, Finland and so on...)
http://www.jazas.org.yu/index.php?change_lang=en

2-Young Researchers of Serbia (This is part of a vast programme initiated by the E.U. to keep European researchs at home)
http://www.mis.org.yu/index.php?lang=eng#

3-The European Movement of Serbia (self-explanatory)
http://www.emins.org/english/index.html

And if you guys really care to read through this long article, it is kind of a résumé of the Thessaloniki Agenda for The Balkan Countries
4-Consolidating stability and achieving prosperity in the Western Balkans
http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/r12650.htm

There you have it!  I just hope it is not too boring to read through all this.
As for Matty's remarks about the Europeans' passion  for  criticizing the ""Great Satan"", it is my opinion that the Bush Administration played a more than predominant role on this.  Besides, it shouldn't  be a surprise to anyone the fact that Israel, with the consent and help of the U.S., bombs, destroys and leaves.  The Europeans come behind them and rebuild! And pay! The Europeans pay the salaries of the unemployed Palestinians --- not the filthy rich Arab countries, nor the Americans who also bomb, destroy and sometimes do not rebuild...

Another factor that plays a strong part on this national sport that Europeans have about criticizing Americans is ""Religion!"" I'd say.   And if one is  not familiar with American costumes and ways of living, well, it is indeed something clumsy and fatiguing to absorb all this ""special relationship"" Americans hanker after have with their god. 
The first thing that strikes a person is that even in their money it is printed ""In God We Trust""!  And there is nothing wrong about that, of course!  However, where do you draw the line when discussing human rights, freedom and the like; and what the law/justice  should be.  Whom this law is supposed to protect and why the church should have no saying in these matters...!   Is there a de facto divison in America between the Church and the State?  Methinks no, there is not.

So, Serbia is getting a lot of money from the E.U. even though it is not yet a member of The Union.  It would only suffice to take a look  at all the Europeans Associations working in there in all imaginable fields to be assured of that.  ""Médécins Sans Frontières"" for example, has been working in Belgrade in the fighting against AIDS for a long time now. 

Val
___
___


« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 07:30:55 PM by Val »
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2007, 07:33:00 PM »
So what Val? You think the EU deserves a pat on the back for doing these things? You know for meeting it's humanitarian obligations in it's region?

Give me a break.

MtD

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2007, 07:46:23 PM »
Well, thank you for singling me and Matty out as the ones who need an education and how Europe is better than the United States, etc.

The EU does good.  The United States doesn't.

America is full of religious people, and our money has a motto on it... all 300 million people who live here are total money-hoarding boobs with no regard for their fellow humans.  And Europe is this gilded Utopia filled with enlightened citizens who have nothing but the best thoughts about everyone ever.

I was tired of hearing this stuff when I was 18, and I'm really tired of it now.

If one teensy sarcastic comment bothers you that much, then you might wanna put me on ignore... because you're going to be spending a lot of time looking for a lot of links in your attempts to educate me as to the humanitarian machinations of supranational bureacracies.

Edited to fix grammatical error. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 07:48:18 PM by aupointillimite »
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2007, 08:02:13 PM »
Matty the Damned has expounded on the issue of the Franco-German Axis and America, sorry I mean the EU and the United States on a previous occasion. Maybe Val would like to print it out and read it over a cup of that brown grit in hot water that Europeans so loosely refer to as coffee.

You can get it here: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1062.0

MtD

/edited for a small typo/
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 08:04:40 PM by matty.the.damned »

Offline koi1

  • Member
  • Posts: 713
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2007, 10:10:24 PM »
I think that someone needs to go have Val movement.

rob
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 10:14:32 PM by koi1 »
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline Val

  • Member
  • Posts: 938
  • Praxitèles -- Satyre au repos
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2007, 01:09:39 AM »
Well, well, well, ain't teh Internets funny!  I just wrote a little article to set some records straight and I get two replies: one, childish as I was inclined  to expect; the other, well-thought out and, as usual, with that irrreplaceable Aussi sense of humour.
Sorry, Benjamin, if setting the records straight pestered  you as much as you thought your replies to the other thread, which I call ""throwing  hot potatoes in the air"", harrassed me!  They did not whatsoever. 
And for your information, I have never made use of the ""ignore"" buttom in these forums.  Whenever I come across some reply and/or topic I don't appreciate teh content (or am not interested in), I behave just in the same manner when I am watching  TV: I use the remote control and get to the next channel.  And I don't make any fuss about it either...

Regarding Matty's reply, the answer is "no!"  Europe should not be patted in the back or receive special praises  for its actions in The Balkans.  However, be fair and  don't go around ""throwing hot potatoes"" in the air as well! 
The article about the Franco-German axis and America is, again, brilliant even though it could be elaborated on so that  some very interesting details and spicy arguments would perhaps make you reflect on some points of it.  And in the end, who knows, even change your point of view.  However, I will not be the one to do that with you!

Anyway, it was never my intention ""to educate"" anyone about any subject at all. Actually I was hoping for some stimulating, engaging discussion on the subject.  Just like Matty's reply.  But, I guess I'll have to decline any further debate on the subject lest some other folks feel the way Benjamin did...

Val
___
___
P.S. Matty, Mexico and The Banana Republics of Central America are having an extremely hard-time in all fronts regarding the fight against AIDS.  They are the U.S. closest neighbours and (forced) allies...!  Just saying. 
How do you think a country --- and one of the wealthiest nonetheless --- that let's its own people die because of the lack of medicines should change that?




« Last Edit: March 05, 2007, 01:22:07 AM by Val »
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2007, 01:36:41 AM »
Anyway, it was never my intention ""to educate"" anyone about any subject at all. Actually I was hoping for some stimulating, engaging discussion on the subject.  Just like Matty's reply.  But, I guess I'll have to decline any further debate on the subject lest some other folks feel the way Benjamin did...

Oh bullshit Val.

Your intention was never to have a stimulating or engaging discussion. You fancied yourself as a some sort of forums warrior seeking to put Mean Old Matty in his place. What a shame you didn't realise that Matty was armed with the facts to put your snide euro-centric posturing out of action before you even started.

MtD

Offline joemutt

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,041
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2007, 01:37:51 AM »
Truth or reality has no meaning for the damned and the unlimited few.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2007, 01:45:33 AM »
Truth or reality has no meaning for the damned and the unlimited few.

Hey Joe!


MtD

Offline joemutt

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,041
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2007, 01:55:02 AM »
It's the Hokey Pokey, Matz.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2007, 01:56:33 AM »
It's good to see you're making as much sense as you ever did Joe-boy. I've no doubt Val's delighted you're on the team.;)

MtD

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2007, 02:18:23 AM »
Oh, there's no point.

Anything I could say would only get me into trouble.

Must... hold... tongue...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2007, 02:32:36 AM by aupointillimite »
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2007, 02:58:31 AM »
Val, you do realize that this debate is inherently pointless, right?

We could go on forever.

Europe: Americans are obsessed with religion.
US: A fascist came in second place for the French presidency in 2002.
Europe: The US is violent and gun-obsessed.
US: Europeans ran roughshod all over the world.
Europe: The US takes all of the world's oil.
US:  We gave you an economy after WWII.
Europe: You're money mad.
US:  You have a 10% unemployment rate.
Europe:  The US had slaves.
US:  You sold them to us.
Europe: You slaughtered your indigenous inhabitants.
US: Governments in Europe still deny ethnic groups their right to self-determination.
Europe:  You denied African-Americans rights.
US:  You tortured Arabs as a matter of course during the Algerian War for Independence.
Europe: You bomb the world.
US: You've had fascist and communist governments which tortured and killed their own citizens within living memory.
Europe: Your cuisine stinks.
US:  You stink.

This debate can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on... it has been for decades, and generally the only time it's brought up is when someone's trying to get people riled. 

What's the point, pray tell?

Is it that boring in Germany?  I lived there for two years, and I remember there being lots to do.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Val

  • Member
  • Posts: 938
  • Praxitèles -- Satyre au repos
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2007, 04:37:02 AM »
Guys,
Time to put a stop to this!  This is not the direction I  intended for this thread, no matter what Matty states.  However, some clarifications are needed.

Firstly, you gotta own what you say Matty!  You sarcastically,  ironically and (mostly)  inaccurately  affirmed something that I cared to point out, since,  yes, I love the E.U. and I suppose there is nothing wrong about defending who or what I love, right?  
Next, your  attempt to turn things around to your advantage (?) accusing me of striving  to be "a forum warrior" (?), whatever that means to you, is just unethical.   I'm at a loss here, since your attitude is not what I'd call a level-headed one...
By the way, dear Matty, I'm glad you still keep your sense of humour 'cos most of the caustic style, the sharp tongue that I so much admired --- hey, I'm French and no hypocrite --- and the cutting remarks are gone in most of your posts!   I dare hope you'll change...
These forums have  accomplished something that I dislike: ""They managed to muzzle Matty.le.Damné!""

Secondly, you're absolutely right Benjamin.  There is no point whatsoever in continuing the discussion!  And if I thought of your first reply as "childish", I meant it in a sulky, out of humour, moody way.
As for the list you sent me, I will dare to make a teensy, yet funny,  remark about the first one only and just for the heck of it.

You said:
Europe:  Americans are obsessed with religion.
US: A fascist came in second place for the French presidency in 2002.

My reply:
And so what if the fascist of 2002 had won the presidential election?  You have a Nazist/Fascist president/government in power right now! And he's been elected not just once... Thank God/Godess for N. Pelosi!

By the way, Germany is a fabulous country (as I suppose you can attest) and I have a lovely time every time I go there.  I'm back in the "true country of Les Droits de l'Homme, now, though!"  You know, the one who..."tortured Arabs as a matter of course during the Algerian War for Independence", just like the Americans have done in the past with their own kind (Southerners) and the Brits; in Irak, though, they have been behaving themselves in an exemplary way, n'est-ce pas?

Val
___
___
P.S. And yes, I am more than flattered to have Joemutt on "my team?"  Jesus, Matty, I need a drink...you, schoolboy!
Funny how the "clique" theme keeps coming back in these threads.  It  might have something to do with Americans in general and the fear of being singled out. I say single me out anytime you want and I'll stand up for my convictions and beliefs.  You see, I didn't mention the Europeans who participated in the ""Ungraceful death"" thread, but I do think they were to the point and brave...!

Edit to erase some shit and stuff...and perhaps some typos.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2007, 05:56:58 AM by Val »
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2007, 06:13:09 AM »
And so what if the fascist of 2002 had won the presidential election?  You have a Nazist/Fascist president/government in power right now! And he's been elected not just once... Thank God/Godess for N. Pelosi!


Val, Matty the Damned is typing this slowly as he knows you can't read all that fast.  The point that I and Benj are making is a simple one. Even you should be able to grasp it, doll.

It's not that America is without fault, it's just that Europeans such as you are in no position to criticise. You have nante credibility on this issue my love. Everytime you offer what you think is some trenchant insight about the state of American government or politics (such as the one I've quoted above), the rest of the world merely rolls its collective eyes. More mindless banter from Eurotrash.

You thank the "goddess" for Nancy Pelosi? Why not try thanking the Americans in this forum (such as Benj) who voted for her and the other Democrats in the US Congress at the recent mid-term elections? They're the ones who made the Botox Bolshevik House Speaker. Not your vaunted "goddess".

And while you're about it why not try paying attention to the score of threads here started by American members decrying the predations of conservatives and right wingers in their country?

Have you checked out the universal health care thread that was posted in Living With? It's easy for people like you and I to sit back make shrewish observations about the tragedy of 45 million Americans having no health coverage at all whilst we enjoy generous socialised health care systems.

Did you fail to notice the TWO threads in Off Topic on the latest outrage by the obnoxious Ann Coulter? Both threads were started by American members. Jody (from New York) and Hal (from Tennessee). No I suppose you were too busy posting links to ghastly YouTube clips.

Do you visit the AIDS Activism forum? If you did you'd notice that American members are always talking about the activities they undertake everyday in their communities. Whether it's organising the reuse of unwanted medications, participating in AIDS walks or giving speeches in schools and community groups, they're engaged and committed. They're not the gun-toting, race baiting bigots you would like to represent them as.

Whilst you chatter on like the resident parrot in the pet shop , these people are actually doing something. You might like to try that one day. You might find your views on these matters are taken a whole lot more seriously when you do.

Since you're glad to have the increasingly cryptic Joemutt on your team, maybe you could take the time to explain to the rest of us what the fuck he's talking about.

Fondly,

MtD

Offline Val

  • Member
  • Posts: 938
  • Praxitèles -- Satyre au repos
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2007, 08:57:49 AM »
I said above that this should be stopped and that's it.  I will not post any reply here anymore besides this one.   However, since Matty.le.Damné seems to be coming back to his more usual ways of being and can  apparently  handle the truth, I will blantly tell him to shove all his advices and wrong opinions right there..."where the sun never shines!"
When I remind him of the old days and cutting remarks, I did not have in  mind any authoritative, arrogant, vanglorious and bird-brained replies.  You see, I could have pointed out several things about what's being said in the ""Ungraceful death"" thread by these two fellows, but refrained from 'cos my intention was not, and I repeat, was not for this thread to go in this direction.
But, since these two guys have just thrown hot potatoes in the air and stubbornly keep on doing it  --- see their replies to Matt Mee and the brilliant article (although completely unrelated to the topic we were discussing)  that  Matty posted about the Franco-German view of Europe and America ---  well, I decided to set the records straight.  That's all there is to it.

And here again we have our ole good Matty  drifting away from the topic we're discussing and, once more, shooting arrows just like Cupidon in any sense and making a true salad of this thread.  Now, do the Americans need Matty to defend them as he did?  Humm, this smells like teen spirit to me!  Who attacked Americans?  Me? What's the topic of this thread, anyway, Matty.le.Damné? You could finally make a true effort and enlighten me on this one...

Do I have problems with my reading?  Do I read slow?  Well, Matty, I do not and I do this perfectly well   i.e. more than just "fluently"   in more languages than you'll ever be able to in your several lives.  In how many languages can you read, argument and be despicably preposterous?  One?  One and a half?  I tell you, sweetheart, you gotta a long way to go, baby!

I mentioned this before and will do it once again:  "I will never tell anyone what they should or should not do in these forums and I expect the same treatment." PERIOD

Do I post "ghastly" You Tube clips in this forum?  Yes, I do.   And, if you're so bothered by them, the solution is quite radical and simple:  "Skip it!""   Like they say, "if you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen!"  I happen to like what I post in these forums, DOLL!

As for the AIDS Activism forums I do read and post in there, dear Matty, and don't owe you a fucking explanation whatsoever about that.  ""Gun-toting, race baiting bigots"" are words used by you when referring to Americans ---   not me. 

And I am no resident parrot in no fucking pet shop either, got it?  ""You""  are being the ridiculous parrot with all these presumptuous, hare-brained, hazy   allegations!

Lastly, yes I am proud of having Joemutt on my ""team"" ---  your preferred term.  You see, he's European!  Therefore, I can't help but like him 'cos deep down we more or less resemble each other i.e. we're smart folks and shouldn't be hated just because of that!
Moreover, I can assure you that Joemutt may not express himself well all the time in all the languages he speaks, but he can be very precise and to the point when he speaks  his native language. 
That, by the way, is not really your case with your Aussie English, since you've just proved it to me in two distinct threads!  But, then again, I may be mistaken. I do recognise  the fallacies of the written word.

I still remain your admirer and supporter as long as all unreasonableness, pigheaded and wooden-headed remarks and foolishness are absent from your posts.

Fondly,
Val
___
___






Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2007, 09:05:58 AM »
Val,

If you told me that the earth was flat, and I believed you without going to the edge to look over, I would be the fool!

Sincerely,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 24,613
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2007, 09:13:34 AM »
Guys, you definitely don't have to like each other. But you do have to be civil.

And simply sharpening your retorts to a finer point is not civility, Matty.

If there's anything that any of you who have written here still want to express about the subject, please do it without just using this as a platform to express how stupid you think someone else

We got that part already, all-too-clearly.

Thanks for your cooperation. 

Andy Velez

Offline Peter Staley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2007, 11:48:59 AM »
Matty -- I'm sorry it's come to this, but this is your last warning before a possible permanent banning from the forums (you've used up your Time Outs).

I, for one, frequently enjoy your contributions to these forums, but they are often outweighed by your constant stream of snarky put-downs.  We are well aware that you carefully avoid the more obvious forms of schoolyard namecalling, but instead use your weapon of choice -- "humorous" put-downs -- most of which are meant to say to other forums members "I am smart, and you are stupid."

Matty, you are a verbal bully.  In my mind, comments like "whilst you chatter on like the resident parrot in the pet shop" only make you a smarter-sounding version of the bully that calls someone "stupid faggot."

I'm not sure it's possible for a bully to change his stripes.  The way you put down people is obviously built into your DNA.  But if you want to stay in these forums, you're going to have to try to change the way you argue with other members.

Please make that effort.  I'd really hate to lose your oftentimes challenging opinions and wit.

Peter

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,954
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2007, 01:27:43 PM »
Peter it is your site and you have the luxury of dealing with people as you see fit. However, I find it disturbing to use the word "faggot" as a comparison...the biggest put-down someone could come up with on a predominately gay website. Using assumed genetic markers to ban someone also gives me pause.


Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2007, 01:57:43 PM »
Wow. Seriously. Wow. Another member singled out Matty and Benji, who responded, and it appears that the ones initially attacked are villified.

Wow. I certainly hope that the influx of older members is not a temporary one. But so long as errant nationalism and bullying, of ever-so-thinly disguised denialism and personal attacks are rewarded, I submit that none of us with actual souls will be here for long.

Could matty havbe laid off the rhetoric? Sure. But surely even the most biased mods can see how, in this thread, who came out swinging.

Personally, I think the likes of Matty and Benji and yeah, even Val add to the flavor of these forums. Otherwise, well, eventually it will simply be a place wherethe newly diagnosed rehash their stories of denial, and the very sick remain silent, AIDS, apparently, is a character flaw these days.

I'm often mistaken. I hope this is not one of theose times.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Longislander

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,486
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2007, 02:08:52 PM »
Quote
eventually it will simply be a place wherethe newly diagnosed rehash their stories of denial


and some wonder why there seems to be a divide.........
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2007, 02:15:04 PM »
Sorry, Longislander. Did not mean to upset you.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Bucko

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,947
  • You need a shine, missy!
    • The Spin Cycle
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2007, 02:33:27 PM »
Wow. Seriously. Wow. Another member singled out Matty and Benji, who responded, and it appears that the ones initially attacked are villified.

Wow. I certainly hope that the influx of older members is not a temporary one. But so long as errant nationalism and bullying, of ever-so-thinly disguised denialism and personal attacks are rewarded, I submit that none of us with actual souls will be here for long.

Could matty havbe laid off the rhetoric? Sure. But surely even the most biased mods can see how, in this thread, who came out swinging.

Personally, I think the likes of Matty and Benji and yeah, even Val add to the flavor of these forums. Otherwise, well, eventually it will simply be a place wherethe newly diagnosed rehash their stories of denial, and the very sick remain silent, AIDS, apparently, is a character flaw these days.

I'm often mistaken. I hope this is not one of theose times.

Thank you Jonathan and Doxie for encapsulating how I feel.

I find it more than ironic that the same confrontational approach used by ACT UP and Queer Nation are discouraged at a message board built to support those living with HIV/AIDS. If the conversation sometimes gets heated, isn't it only natural, given the deep issues of mortality that we all face?

If HIV/AIDS isn't about life and death issues, I'm not sure what qualifies.

This entire thread was initated to throw flames.I wouldn't deny Val the "right" to post it, but certainly don't deny Matty or Benj the right to respond. Banning Matty for being Matty just seems absurd. Silencing him does nothing to further the dialog. And, yes, I think that HIV/AIDS is worth the occasional flame-out as much as Henri IV felt Paris was worth a Mass.

Brent
(Who thinks we can all be too sensitive at times)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,286
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2007, 04:42:13 PM »
I thought it was discussed when the new T.O. procedures were announced that a better job of nondiscrimination would be adhered to. That lasted a whole two months. Why does one get singled out and the one that called them out and flame baited, didn't? This is plain wrong. 

Offline Central79

  • Member
  • Posts: 527
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2007, 05:17:18 PM »
My perspective on this is that I partipated in the original thread this one sprung from:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=9811.0

And got drawn into an arguement along the lines of "America vs Europe" when it came to healthcare, and then other things. I was then reminded by another poster that the thread was infact started by SASA39 for him to speak about the situation he found himself in at the time. I then stopped posting my wider political view, and commiserated with SASA39, who really is in a sucky situation.

In my opinion, Val didn't post this to "flame-bait" anybody. But this thread doesn't belong here: it's not talking about living with HIV. Although we all share our experiences of healthcare here, and that's an important part of HIV, this wider political arguement most definitely belongs in "Off Topic".

Regarding banning members like MtD for strong views, quite often expressed with a lot of sarcasm and negativity, I don't really see the point. When I started concentrating on SASA39s problem in the original thread MtD suddenly disappeared - look at his posts and I think he thrives on arguement. Wherever there's conflict, he's there, often instigating, always prolonging. I don't see much value in many of his posts, but I don't see the rationale for banning him.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Matt.
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline poet

  • Member
  • Posts: 934
  • Poet living and working in Central Maine
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2007, 05:33:12 PM »
I skipped through this and then went back to the beginning: 'I just had to reply to Matty and Benjamin regarding their empty, pococurante   comments on Alex's  thread ""Ungraceful death"", which dealt with the situation of AIDS in Serbia.'  No one replies to someone, only to someone's post.  When anyone finds a point objectionable, one objects to -debates- that point, not the poster.  In fact, the original poster, him or herself, should be left out entirely, meaning left unnamed.  And while this post may seem to be pointed at a person it is, in fact, not.   It is pointed at threads such as this one with their content.  Best, Win

Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline ScooterTrash

  • Member
  • Posts: 69
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2007, 05:50:45 PM »
How 'bout adding a "Gloves Off" forum for the people who thrive on controversy?... An AidsMeds boxing ring per se.
Then they can beat the livin piss out of eachother. (figuratively of course)

Offline Mouse

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Om nom nom.
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2007, 06:39:49 PM »
Other than me, we're all adults here. I would hope we don't still cry everytime someone doesn't want to be our friend. I would also hope that we're mature enough to handle a discussion that is a little more involved than what our favorite colors are without getting upset if someone doesn't use nice words to us.

Offline ajm_ldn

  • Member
  • Posts: 69
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2007, 06:48:35 PM »
Please don't ban Matty.  He helps keep me giggling, and reading the forums.  Love his rapier wit.

Love ya Matty! 

Offline Jody

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,823
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2007, 07:49:28 PM »
I too hope Matty doesn't get banned, our forums here thrive on differences of opinion and a bit of fun, sometimes sarcastic, usually very intelligent that goes on here much more often than not...I have grown to like Mattala and his colorful ways...I think we agreed back when that as people living with HIV, or a fear of it, or support of others we would have off-topic discussions (where this thread belongs) to keep things loose and enjoyable since life with HIV was serious enough and important enough to keep front and center but it wasn't all that we are.  Politics are all around us and important enough to comment on as our lives are affected by them and we must participate.

In fact when Val first started posting I found him to be one who flame baited, he got off to a rough start here claiming some of his comments were lost in translation if you will...He was one of the few folks here I considered using the ignore feature on but as with everyone else I never did as I believe all opinions are important and what the hell - I can always read them and agree to disagree and maybe learn something in the process.  He is a person I can live with after all.

But dear Val, no one is perfect and if one were to ask for instance, young Muslims in the suburbs of Paris or Turks in Germany for example how their lives compare to the folks who sip drinks and dine in the cafes of Europe we could probably get an earful...No our America is not perfect, many of us voted against Bush in the last 2 elections, we would love to have the middle eastern problems resolved yesterday, but it is also a country that in many cases opened its doors to our grandparents who might have been wiped out had they been forced to remain in Europe and that being what it is, we sometimes tend to take criticism from others with a bit of scorn and disdain, though you are welcome to comment of course, you see many of us admire freedom and democracy for all peoples.

Jody
"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world".
 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline Lis

  • Member
  • Posts: 593
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2007, 07:57:38 PM »
SPOT ON JODY!!!!!

bump!!!!
poz 1986....

Offline Nico

  • Member
  • Posts: 262
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2007, 08:15:09 PM »
I read this on my way home today via DELTA - aka "Don't Ever Leave The Airport".  Sorry Delta friends! 

I agree, Matty and Benj add some spice and insight.  Wes as well, but to ban Matty?  Give me a break.  We need some humorous debate and balance.  I suggest some people "get over it".

Rog
Poz since 1990.

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2007, 08:35:27 PM »
Peter... as one of the people to whom Matty has pointed his "smarter than thou" rhetoric, I would respectfully ask that you not ban him.    This is a site where adults with a serious illness discuss issues relevant to them.  Sometimes, a bit of social stridency is expected when the topic is difficult, especially given the situation.  If Val, Benj or Matty get out of hand, then I would suggest asking them to behave in private first.  Please remember, that it is a natural human reaction to overcompensate  ...  and while Matty is indeed extremely caustic at times, it is quite clear that some very respectable forum members think very highly of him.  "... Matty, who has a big heart."

To me, it is a shame that each time a controversy arises, some of the so-called old timers on this forum threaten to leave.  This forum is as much for someone whose posting count is 1 as it is for someone with 4000.  No one here is perfect. 

I've been on a lot of boards and have yet to see a single one where the old timers don't hearken back to the glory days when it was better.  Please.  Let's remember why we are here.  To support one another.  Sometimes we won't like each other.  That's natural.  And, I, for one don't think it serves any point to ban someone until they get completely out of hand.  I certainly am grown up enough not to take it particularly personally that someone who doesn't know me decides to attack me.  Yes, personal attacks should stop, and the points should be debated for the points.  But... seriously ... do you honestly expect a public forum about HIV to follow Parliamentary Procedure?
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline whizzer

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2007, 09:04:45 PM »
Peter,

Did you not read the title of this thread?  Matty and Benj were called out in the title.  For you to single out Matty for replying, however strongly, is wrong.  You could tell this was baiting from the title of the thread. 

SHAME ON YOU !!

-Whiz

Offline koi1

  • Member
  • Posts: 713
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2007, 10:12:18 PM »
Please don't ban Matty the damned. That would be like giving many of these forums a lobotomy. Benj and Matty have a right to defend themselves. I have been to Europe on many occasions and had to put up with the self righteous superiority complex so arrogantly thrown about there. And Jody is right, there are plenty of disenfranchised folk in Europe on whose backs the continent is carried .

 My firtst time in Germany, in the village where I was staying, a  turkish girl was abducted, put in a plastic bag, and scalding water was thrown on her. She was then dumped on the side of the road. It was horrifying. This was done by Neonazis. There is no Utopia anywhere, but many of us are working for a better world, regardless of where we come from.

rob
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2007, 10:55:00 PM »
Damn, the Queen takes ill and all hell breaks loose, wtf? ;D I'll admit the topic with Matty and Benj's name totally caught my attention because I enjoy reading their posts. I love both their sarcasm and wit. The real topic was lost on me because I do not follow such things but the difference of opinions kept me reading.

I would think by now, this being a forum and all that people would not become heated by a difference of opinion. And since we are all adults here, I would think a little name calling could be ignored....sticks and stones people..Or maybe I'm a bit delirious due to fever. Oh well...

Peter~~

I have to agree with the others about banning Matty, it would be wrong considering he did not start this and was called out by the title alone. If someone has to be punished, it should be the one who started it. I'm quite sure Matty used up all his time outs a long time ago but in this instance, he be given a pass or whatever. I'll even offer up a few of mine if that makes a difference..The Queen only needs warnings from time to time. ;) So, I gladly offer up mine....
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline Mouse

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Om nom nom.
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2007, 12:21:23 AM »
Damn, the Queen takes ill and all hell breaks loose, wtf? ;D I'll admit the topic with Matty and Benj's name totally caught my attention because I enjoy reading their posts. I love both their sarcasm and wit. The real topic was lost on me because I do not follow such things but the difference of opinions kept me reading.

I would think by now, this being a forum and all that people would not become heated by a difference of opinion. And since we are all adults here, I would think a little name calling could be ignored....sticks and stones people..Or maybe I'm a bit delirious due to fever. Oh well...

Peter~~

I have to agree with the others about banning Matty, it would be wrong considering he did not start this and was called out by the title alone. If someone has to be punished, it should be the one who started it. I'm quite sure Matty used up all his time outs a long time ago but in this instance, he be given a pass or whatever. I'll even offer up a few of mine if that makes a difference..The Queen only needs warnings from time to time. ;) So, I gladly offer up mine....

Haha. Agreed. If there is warning trading going about I don't need any of mine. I'm a perfect angel.

 ;D

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2007, 01:33:03 AM »
Quote from: Val
The problem, of course, is how that money is being distributed to the population by the Serbian Government... I will not comment on that.

So if the EU or other entity gives the Serbian government money to fight HIV/AIDS it has no responsibility to insure the money is used for that purpose?   Based on Al's experiences it sounds as if the amount provided is a drop in the bucket or the Serbian government is misappropriating the funds.   You tout what has been done but qualify it with a de facto admission the Serbian government isn't helping its HIV-infected populace.   What point has been proved?

And why the gratuitous smear against Israel?  The USA has given millions and billions to far worse countries.  I support Palestinian rights and do not approve of much of what Israel has done and does, but they're not the only country oppressing others.   Are we displaying a little anti-Semitism? 

Why single Benj out?  I can almost understand Matty since he posted several of his inimitable (and a tad inimical) messages in Al's thread but Benj was one of several others who veered off-topic with singular posts.  Who are you to be calling people out by name in the subject line of a post?  I hate most of the youtube threads but wouldn't dream of and writing a diatribe aimed at you personally.  I just skip the posts.

As a US American ashamed of my country for letting the most crooked President in history take 8 years to wreak havoc here and abroad, you won't get any "The USA is the best fucking country in the whole wide world" tripe from me.  By the same token, though, very few European countries can claim to have spotless records when it comes to imperialism or blatant discrimination based on class, gender, ethnicity, etc.   I believe many EU countries are more progressive now than the USA but they've been around longer and the skeletons in their closets are older but they're still there.  Vichy France is not anything I'd be bragging about.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline sweetasmeli

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,052
  • Love what you are...
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2007, 02:20:40 AM »
Hey!
Well, whatdyaknow...bunnies breed like...well, bunnies!
I now have lots of bunnies with pancakes on their heads as my laptop background...;D

Little Miss Melia 8)
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline bravebuddharich

  • Member
  • Posts: 179
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2007, 02:40:16 AM »
There are two different topics I want to respond to here - so first, my own personal frustration that I can't really do anything to help alleviate the suffering of others around this planet of ours; yet grateful that others on here feel that they can, which ought to be encouraged. There is so much to be outraged about, and cared about, and so much need to alleviate suffering all over this planet. I choose, because it's all I can do at this time, to focus energy where I live, and if i can write a letter or lobby or anything else, I do it - I'm very grateful when I get reminders such as this thread of things that need attention!

The second topic is my own alienation from this site due to certain posters who are mean and use defensive humor to hijack posts. I'm trying harder to simply avoid the posts of these members; but it makes me feel less willing to post. I've occasionally flailed out in frustration over this and am trying to keep a cooler head for the future. Like someone else said, you don't have to read a post, not even mine! but since so many respond to the posts I find offensive, it's hard to avoid.

I do think it would have been better had the subject line not singled out 2 posters, even though I agree with the original poster, and had been more specific - is there some way of changing to a mechanism which allows your cursor to scroll over the subject heading and read the first few lines of the post? That would be enormously helpful!

Metta,
Rich

Offline joemutt

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,041
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2007, 03:52:05 AM »
Bunnies ok, bullies not ok. :)

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2007, 04:52:11 AM »
Haha. Agreed. If there is warning trading going about I don't need any of mine. I'm a perfect angel.

 ;D
  Trying to be perfect requires too much energy and effort. I only have one life to live. As long as I'm not out here chopping up bodies or going postal, I'm doing righteous. You're an angel for now but just wait......we'll see a damn cemetary in your closet in no time...j/k......love yas..
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline Jeffreyj

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,403
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2007, 08:48:06 AM »
Banning Matty? I think that would be wrong. Very wrong.
Positive since 1985

Offline swede_dish

  • Member
  • Posts: 682
  • I feel like an angel baby wrapped in a candy cloud
    • My blog
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2007, 11:25:00 AM »
Let's not be silly folks. Banning would qualify as silly.
"I married a German. Every night I dress up as Poland and he invades me. "
-Bette Midler

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2007, 11:29:20 AM »
How long is the Warning in effect?  In my neck of the woods we have Tornado Warnings, but they only last a set period of time before they give the all clear.  So my question is, are you asking him to NOT be himself for this particular discussion and that if he backs off the warning goes away? Or are you saying that one more time is all it takes from now until the end of time and BANG you are gone?

Cause if its the latter I think it is HIGHLY out of order.  Being that he was called out.

Sincerely,
Andrew
The In Crowd's press secretary.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2007, 12:23:12 PM »
"It is better to have the breadth of Aunt Jemima, than the depth of a piece of parchment"

I have no idea where that came from, but it flew through my brain at 2am and I had to share it here.

Hey guys, when do we draw the line.  A bland dish created in the kitchen is the same as a full and rich one, except for the addition of the correct spices.  It is very clear that Matty and others here, bring spice to the dish.  They enrich the taste of the content.  When the spices are shunned and removed, blandness takes over, and the dish becomes hurtfully boring.  I choose not to have a boring experience in life.  I choose that full taste of a dish with a taste that lingers on the tongue long after one has swallowed. 

I have no idea where this all came from, but it is the way I am feeling about this thread this morning.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline woodshere

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2007, 12:35:57 PM »
"Hey guys, when do we draw the line.  A bland dish created in the kitchen is the same as a full and rich one, except for the addition of the correct spices.  It is very clear that Matty and others here, bring spice to the dish.  They enrich the taste of the content.  When the spices are shunned and removed, blandness takes over, and the dish becomes hurtfully boring.  I choose not to have a boring experience in life.  I choose that full taste of a dish with a taste that lingers on the tongue long after one has swallowed. 

Excellent analogy.  Of course we know what happens to a dish when too many spices are added or you add the wrong spice.  Spice should always be added in moderation.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Bucko

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,947
  • You need a shine, missy!
    • The Spin Cycle
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2007, 01:18:09 PM »
Excellent analogy.  Of course we know what happens to a dish when too many spices are added or you add the wrong spice.  Spice should always be added in moderation.

Most places allow for mild, wild and oh my gawd, because sometimes piquancy has its own rewards.

Brent
(Who understands how to season both fares and discourses)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Peter Staley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2007, 01:36:58 PM »
Okay, so let me get this right..

MTD gets a free pass for calling other forums members stupid, as long as he uses a touch of wit each time he does it?  It doesn't matter how often folks send us moderator reports complaining about his posts, right?  He's a longtime member, so we should ignore all the moderator reports?  He gets more reports than almost any other member, but his spice factor should negate this fact, right?

So if YOU like his style, it means that all the others that feel bullied by it are just wusses, right?

We actually gets lots of members complaining that we (the moderators) play favorites with Matty and a few other longtime members.  I know we don't (Dingo is currently on a 30-day TO, and he's one of our bloggers), but are folks here advocating that we should?

Just wondering.

Peter

Offline poet

  • Member
  • Posts: 934
  • Poet living and working in Central Maine
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2007, 01:45:03 PM »
If we look at the cooking metaphor as cooks, the point of adding spices is to bring out whatever it is that we are cooking, say pork tenderloin with some Hoisin, soy sauce, fresh ginger.  We don't want the dish to be the three spices.  We still want the dish to be pork tenderloin.  If we are using fresh asparagus, we want to still be able to taste them as well.  But once the spices reach the point that whatever was being spiced is forgotten- lost- in the flavours, we have lost the dish completely.  Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline swede_dish

  • Member
  • Posts: 682
  • I feel like an angel baby wrapped in a candy cloud
    • My blog
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2007, 01:48:45 PM »
Peter,
You do raise a good point. But, if Matty gets warned so should Val. I don't know I guess I just saw it that Val was kind of trying to get things started. *shrug*
"I married a German. Every night I dress up as Poland and he invades me. "
-Bette Midler

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2007, 01:51:00 PM »
I would like to remind those who like to laugh at Matty's "rapier wit" that your pleasure often comes at a very high price for some of your fellow forum members. We even have members who have yet to find themselves on the receiving end of Matty's "wit", but who are nonetheless intimidated into not posting for fear of being his next target. 

Think for a minute how you would feel if a comment of yours resulted in being the target of Matty's rapier and you knew all of his supporters were snickering along with him. Would you feel like continuing to come here for support?

We don't like to ban anyone from these forums, but we will not allow the bullying to continue, under the guise of humour or otherwise.

Matty was not warned because of his comments in this thread alone. His increasingly bullying behaviour culminated in the warning and if it didn't happen in this particular thread, it would have happened elsewhere.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Peter Staley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2007, 01:53:17 PM »
swede_dish -- the warning had little to do with this specific thread, but I had to post it somewhere.  Matty's put-downs can be found in MANY threads.  The warning was issued for his behaviour in general, not for his specific posting in this thread.

Offline swede_dish

  • Member
  • Posts: 682
  • I feel like an angel baby wrapped in a candy cloud
    • My blog
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2007, 02:14:21 PM »
Ahhhhh. Ok I see now. Sorry about that.
"I married a German. Every night I dress up as Poland and he invades me. "
-Bette Midler

Offline Teresa

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,753
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2007, 02:15:20 PM »
I would hate to see anyone get banned from this site.

Didn't we have a discussion about time outs and bans a few months ago? I thought Peter explained them very good. The rules should apply to everyone no matter what.

Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,954
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2007, 02:26:31 PM »
Not that it matters but this seems a very arbitrary way to handle this situation. I do find it ironic that Ann can take off her moderator's hat and engage Matty with her rapier wit when she chooses.

Offline Elizabeth

  • Member
  • Posts: 62
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2007, 02:34:34 PM »
Not that it matters but this seems a very arbitrary way to handle this situation. I do find it ironic that Ann can take off her moderator's hat and engage Matty with her rapier wit when she chooses.

I wondered about that myself.  It would seem that for the moderators to be viewed as impartial, as they should be, they can't really interact with the discussions in the forums as regular posters.  To do so, puts them on one side or the other of a discussion and removes all impartiality. 
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2007, 02:37:20 PM »
They truly are damned if the do and damned if they dont.  I dont envy their position at all most times.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2007, 02:37:59 PM »
Okay, so let me get this right..

MTD gets a free pass for calling other forums members stupid, as long as he uses a touch of wit each time he does it?  It doesn't matter how often folks send us moderator reports complaining about his posts, right?  He's a longtime member, so we should ignore all the moderator reports?  He gets more reports than almost any other member, but his spice factor should negate this fact, right?

Peter,

Speaking for myself it seems the sentiment expressed by others relates only to this thread, in which Matty was singled out for ridicule by Val.  His responses were typical Mattyisms, yes, and he should be told to watch what he posts, but permanently banning him because of this thread seems a little unreasonable.  I often wish Matty was a bit less caustic but in this case I understand his responses. 

I don't have any idea how hard it is to moderate the forums but know it's not simple or easy.  Matty probably deserves a warning but it should be mitigated by the context of this thread, which was a personal attack.   If Matty indulges in ad hominem attacks in other threads you have given him sufficient warning and must apply the rules to him as to anyone else.  It's just this one thread which some of us feel should be considered anomalous and not used as a final warning to Matty.

IOW, Matty does not deserve special treatment by the mods but this specific flame fest was inevitable given the original post.  Frankly, I think the thread should have been locked as soon as the initial post was made.

I just read your response to swede_dish and Ann's post and understand why Matty had to be warned here or somewhere else, but I still suggest leniency only for his posts in this thread.   Matty has been given sufficient warning and how he behaves in the future is his decision.  If he is banned I will regret it but as moderators you must act impartially and fairly with all of us and the TOU dictates specific actions you must take. 

Boo



String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Mouse

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Om nom nom.
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2007, 02:56:42 PM »
I'm certainly glad I'm not a moderator. It seems as though they are also pushed so hard to do what is correct even they will be criticized no matter what their choice is. But, of course, justice must prevail and even if it upsets many members certain things must be done to protect the greater peace. At least, I think that is how this is being construed. Matty is nasty and he keeps kicking puppies - disregarding the fact that the puppies have peed on his leg a bunch of times he's supposed to pat them on the head, give them a biscuit and forget about it.

Yeah, I'm small and young and impressionable and surely I've been bribed or at least I'm so horribly easy to manipulate that I can't tell right from wrong and will only defend those that have been nice to me despite whether or not they are right or wrong. I'm sure if I have a note on my folder in the filing cabinet of God that's what it says.

When someone is banned from this forum I would hope that they were banned because they were deliberately harming whatever cycle we have going on here that contributes to the greater good. I'd hope they were banned because they would looking for trouble. Trolls and assholes and thieves and liars and whatever else goes on that list. When you remove someone from a forum, you're removing their input - because everything they had to contribute was seedy and wrong and rude and useless. By removing Matty from this forum you'd be implying that he contributes nothing of substance. That he has no knowledge to share or that he has never been there in support of other members, has never been perfectly polite and kind and reasonable to anyone who deserved to be treated with respect. Or, most of all, that he has never personally defended anyone that was getting the verbal shit kicked out of them while everyone else, so to speak, saw them laying in an alley bleeding to death, turned their head and kept on walking.

I know no one here gives a shit as long as it looks like they're doing the right thing from the outside. I'm not that naive, I've noticed. This is as much an image thing as anything else, because godforbid if you don't slay the dragon you won't look like you're doing your job and people might question things.

But honestly, to imply that the forum would be better without Matty here - again, that's why you ban someone in the first place, isn't it? To make the forum better? - is enough to make me wonder exactly what the goal here is in the first place.

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 24,613
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2007, 03:25:43 PM »
Dear All,

Personally I want to acknowledge that I erred in not also mentioning Val when I commented about the snapping that had gone on in this thread. Even in his subsequent mea culpa thread I think Val was potentially re-stirring the same pot. I hope not but I haven't check in  there again since I read (most of it) this morning, but had to stop because of its length and not having time to finish it just then.

I appreciated Peter's comments yesterday. Overall I thought them conciliatory and straightforward in spirit rather than threatening to Matty in particular.
It's always been clear that Matty has his fervent adherents here. And equally so there are those who don't dig his mode of expression. From my point of view we have exercised great restraint in respecting both points of view. As Jaser has observed we are sometimes damned no matter what decision we take in certain situations.

Even when it maybe unpopular at times, as far as I am concerned I will continue to call things as honestly and clearly as I see them in terms of maintaining a safe atmosphere  here. We're always working, however imperfectly, to encourage a diversity of expression. The basic goal remains to provide information and support in an atmosphere which makes that possible.

Sincerely, 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 03:28:04 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2007, 03:32:01 PM »
I would hate to see anyone get banned from this site.

Didn't we have a discussion about time outs and bans a few months ago? I thought Peter explained them very good. The rules should apply to everyone no matter what.

Teresa


I agree, Teresa. It can't be an easy task trying to keep order in a group this size when chaos is continually being introduced by hijacking threads, bullying, or any in any other way. Personally I overlook most of it, but it becomes increasingly pointless when it keeps happening so often. I do also wonder at times what anyone looking in and thinking of joining must be wondering when they see it. It's a pity really.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2007, 04:32:14 PM »
At the end of the day, it's up to Matty himself whether or not he is banned from these forums. He already has two time outs to his name and that means he is out of chances.

If he continues his bullying ways, then he'll be banned. If he doesn't stop creating laughs at the expense of other forum members, then he'll be banned. It's as simple as that.

Nobody said he'd be banned as a result of the comments he made in this thread. We are saying he will be banned if he continues this type of behaviour. That particular "spice" is way past it's use-by date.

Yes, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. But I will be damned if we are going to let the bullying wise-cracks continue.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ajm_ldn

  • Member
  • Posts: 69
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2007, 04:43:26 PM »
Isn't it possible for people to simply click on the "ignore" button if they don't like a member's style?  Why does this not solve the problem of people being repeatedly offended by the remarks of an individual.  Am I missing something?

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2007, 05:25:43 PM »
ajm,

Yes, as a matter of fact, you are missing something. People who are new to the site and thinking about becoming a member cannot put anyone on ignore. We are potentially allowing people who need support to be frightened away.

And before anyone brings up the likes of the porn thread, the porn thread does not jump into other threads to bully people.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2007, 05:50:47 PM »
My Sissy Sense tells me that this thread is probably reaching it's use by date so I better get in a response before a Goderator shitcans it.

People often make the mistake of believing that the Internet is some sort of democracy or that particular notions of justice prevail. This is just not the case. In any internet community or collective (such as forums like this one) the final decision and judgements about how the place is run comes down to those who carry the burden of Administration.

In our case those people are Peter and Tim (the Administrators) and Ann and Andy (the Global Moderators). No matter what any of us might think, they are the final arbiters in all matters. Now that's not a criticim of anyone or anything it's just a statement of fact.

I can dig it totally. That how the Internets are run. This site is no different to any other in that respect.

Now as has been pointed out, I haven't been banned but in the judgement of Peter Staley my conduct has reached a level where that I am in iminent danger of a permanent ban. Well so be it. That is entirely Peter's perogative and I have no quibble with it. It would be a pointless endeavour in any event. Ultimately somebody has to run this show.

Now much has been made of my particular style, and I won't dispute it. I am gifted or cursed (depending on your perspective I suppose) with The Invective. It's a skill I aquired through being a political activist here in Australia. It a curiously antipodean thing. When one finds oneself in the heat of debate, you not only present facts and arguments to support your position, you also excoriate your opponent with stinging wit.

Now I'm not saying that I don't have control over that aspect of my style. I do and there's no doubt that I can take the  venom out. If there are people who have been deeply wounded by things I have said to them in the past, well then  I can see how that is to be viewed as regrettable.

That said, I would dispute Peter and Ann on one point. I do not accept for a single moment that I am in anyway a bully. That is to my mind incorrect. You both labour under a misapprehension on that point. I'm not offended by Peter and Ann's erroneous characterisation of me, I've been thought less of by people who opinion of me as a person I have more respect for. Again, that's not meant to be slap, merely how I see things. You may think I'm a bully and I can live with it.

Nevertheless it is entirely up to you to form that judgement and act upon it as you see fit.

To those (a small number of respondents I note) who have suggested that I contribute nothing of worth or value to this place, I maintain that you are not correct. Even Peter Staley has acknowledged I sometimes do good things.

Just don't tell anyone I can be nice. It'll totally ruin my reputation with the rest of the Damned. ;)

Matty the Damned

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,126
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2007, 08:27:39 PM »
That is entirely Peter's perogative and I have no quibble with it. It would be a pointless endeavour in any event. Ultimately somebody has to run this show.




I always had the belief, that it was those that contributed to these forums that keep the show on the road. Every once in a while a moderator has to step in to keep civility. And there is not a thing wrong with that.

Moderators, keep up the excellent work that you do,  and lets continue to keep these forums "civil" Whatever it takes. Once again, nobody should have to be banned, but if someone ( I don't care who) can't be civil, then do the job thats required, through time-outs and ultimately a ban.


Ray



Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline Nadine

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Member since: August 2005
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2007, 08:41:01 PM »
Just don't tell anyone I can be nice. It'll totally ruin my reputation with the rest of the Damned.  ;)

I'll keep my mouth shut!  :-X


Offline koi1

  • Member
  • Posts: 713
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2007, 10:20:12 PM »
One thing (and there are many good things) I will say about Matty, is that he calls it like he sees it, and he is also very consistent. I have seen him come to the defense of many people who have been bullied on this website when the moderators have turned a blind eye (or so it seems). 

I have seen other people be a lot harsher than Matty, and do it far less intelligently, much more blatantly....But I will not name any names, cus that has gotten me in plenty of hot water before.

Each time I have taken it upon myself to cross the line it has been to call someone on outrageous crap or just to say leave me the fuck alone. Now when I singled someone out, my thread was immediately locked and I was told what a flame baiter I was. Maybe I was, who knows.... I didn't see the same consequences for Val when he mentioned Benj and Matty members directly in the title of his thread.

One thing I have learned from being on these threads in a short time, is that I clearly have to develop a tough skin.  That is just the reality. Because noone ever came to my rescue. Now it would be nice to be swimming with goldfish instead of sharks, but that ain't gonna happen. And sometime we all like to take a dip in barracuda infested waters to test our endurance, or maybe just for the thrill of it. 

Now, I have still to see anyone who stays out of it be attacked by Matty. Meaning they were just minding their own business with a mindless thread, when all of a suden Matty came and decimated them (as other forum members tend to do). He does not do that. However if you plan to state an opinion and say something substantial that you believe in, be ready to defend it, debate it and beat it to death until the moderators come and close the thread. Admit it, you like it, who's your daddy? It might just Matty.

rob
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline ajm_ldn

  • Member
  • Posts: 69
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2007, 10:24:13 PM »
Ann,

So I guess you have a lot of hard evidence about how people who haven't even joined the site are being "potentially" scared off (as a matter of fact).

So everybody gets censored because somebody might potentially get offended or scared off?

Jeez, lighten up, sistah.

ajm (as a matter of fact!)  lol

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2007, 11:30:34 PM »
So I guess you have a lot of hard evidence about how people who haven't even joined the site are being "potentially" scared off (as a matter of fact).

Ann didn't state that as fact but as one example why "excoriating" (to quote Matty) personal remarks are inappropriate.  Telling people they are stupid is rarely going to endear you to anyone at the receiving end.  I take Peter and Ann at their word when they state Matty has been reported by other forum members for lambasting someone unfairly (if it is ever fair to do so). 

Quote
So everybody gets censored because somebody might potentially get offended or scared off?

Say what?  An admonition to Matty does not equal everyone being censored. 

Quote
Jeez, lighten up, sistah.

ajm (as a matter of fact!)  lol

Sorry if I've misunderstood your post but if you're joking I missed it.  If you're serious I may still misunderstand.  LOL always confuses me.

Boo,
who is not, contrary to the opinions of some, a moderator brown-noser.  I try to look at all angles before making a conclusion and sometimes I agree with the mods, who work very hard to try to treat everyone fairly as far as I can tell. 
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2007, 11:37:10 PM »
A post worth quoting. I was looking for these words. Apparently Rob found them before I did.


One thing (and there are many good things) I will say about Matty, is that he calls it like he sees it, and he is also very consistent. I have seen him come to the defense of many people who have been bullied on this website when the moderators have turned a blind eye (or so it seems). 

I have seen other people be a lot harsher than Matty, and do it far less intelligently, much more blatantly....But I will not name any names, cus that has gotten me in plenty of hot water before.

Each time I have taken it upon myself to cross the line it has been to call someone on outrageous crap or just to say leave me the fuck alone. Now when I singled someone out, my thread was immediately locked and I was told what a flame baiter I was. Maybe I was, who knows.... I didn't see the same consequences for Val when he mentioned Benj and Matty members directly in the title of his thread.

One thing I have learned from being on these threads in a short time, is that I clearly have to develop a tough skin.  That is just the reality. Because noone ever came to my rescue. Now it would be nice to be swimming with goldfish instead of sharks, but that ain't gonna happen. And sometime we all like to take a dip in barracuda infested waters to test our endurance, or maybe just for the thrill of it. 

Now, I have still to see anyone who stays out of it be attacked by Matty. Meaning they were just minding their own business with a mindless thread, when all of a suden Matty came and decimated them (as other forum members tend to do). He does not do that. However if you plan to state an opinion and say something substantial that you believe in, be ready to defend it, debate it and beat it to death until the moderators come and close the thread. Admit it, you like it, who's your daddy? It might just Matty.

rob
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Peter Staley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2007, 09:57:43 AM »
Quote
That said, I would dispute Peter and Ann on one point. I do not accept for a single moment that I am in anyway a bully. That is to my mind incorrect. You both labour under a misapprehension on that point. I'm not offended by Peter and Ann's erroneous characterisation of me, I've been thought less of by people who opinion of me as a person I have more respect for. Again, that's not meant to be slap, merely how I see things. You may think I'm a bully and I can live with it.

Nevertheless it is entirely up to you to form that judgement and act upon it as you see fit.

Duly noted, Matty.  And I appreciated your overall explanation as well.  Can we agree on one thing?  Even if you don't consider yourself a bully, others definitely feel as though they've been bullied by you (many have said so in their PMs to us).  You might think they are mischaracterizing you, but those ARE their feelings nonetheless.

Quote
Now I'm not saying that I don't have control over that aspect of my style. I do and there's no doubt that I can take the venom out. If there are people who have been deeply wounded by things I have said to them in the past, well then I can see how that is to be viewed as regrettable.

Ah, cryptic as always -- I'll try to take some hope from this.

Cheers,

Peter


Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2007, 11:11:32 AM »
Im pretty sure thats about as close to an apology as one gets with The Damned one.  He is sensible.  I hope the warning is retracted if he settles down for a spell.  And if he flares back up I hope we are wise enough as a community to help him see it before he gets banned.  That includes ALL OF YOU who have supported matty in this thread.  Instead of next time taking it out on Peter and Ann and the rest, why dont we let him know that he may want to ease up off the throttle a bit and maybe even insert ourselves into his defense and let him continue posting civilly.

Just an idea...


Ac
(who throws himself in front of internet bullets like a secret service agent valiantly saving a worthy (not bush) president)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2007, 11:13:34 AM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2007, 12:59:33 PM »
Matty, you are a verbal bully.  In my mind, comments like "whilst you chatter on like the resident parrot in the pet shop" only make you a smarter-sounding version of the bully that calls someone "stupid faggot."

I personally find this more offensive than 'most anything Matty's written, as well as incorrect.  I believe the correct 'translation' would be calling somebody dumbass - big difference between "stupid faggot" and "dumbass" and in very poor taste.

Yeah, Matty pisses me off sometimes.  He can be a real prick.  He's also often (don't tell him this) a real gem.  In that I mean his often off-the-wall opinions generally cause one to think about what he means, not just what he says.  One moment he'll get on my last gay (or is that faggot?) nerve, then have me laughing my ass off the next.  Like life, some parts piss me off and truly suck; some are good.  Such is Matty.  A bully?  I've never thought of him that way.  At his worst, I've thought of him as a prissy little bitch, and an intelligent one at that (sorry Matty, just being honest), but that's all.  Do I want him and his posts to be absent from this forum?  Hell no.

The original post by Val seems to be, from the beginning, a flame-bait.  I read and re-read the initial post and still don't know what the hell it was about, except to incite the responses that it did. 

If it were up to me, and it's not, I'd give the original poster a warning, lock the thread, and get back to why we're here - to talk about, discuss, debate, learn, argue a little, get support, whatever about HIV and AIDS.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,016
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2007, 05:17:19 PM »
I can't believe I missed all of this, or that I actually read the entire thread.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Lis

  • Member
  • Posts: 593
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2007, 05:33:07 PM »
Philly,

Put a pancake on your head... and say you like cheese....

No really... we are what we are.... who ever thought that this many people could get along as well as we do? 

WELL HERE WE ARE!
poz 1986....

Offline Jeffreyj

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,403
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2007, 03:45:36 AM »
I think some of us are taking this Matty thing way to seriously. To me, Matty is the real deal who has the nads to call out people and keeps them honest. And when he does it, Ego's are bruised. I say: So the F87k. Such is life. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

So when Matty hurts someones feeling they go crying with there tail between their legs and bitch to the moderators. ("Poor babies")...Matty does not go looking for a school yard brawl. He often times is simply reacting or commenting on what people say. And he calls them out. I call that "Keeping them honest". Maybe after Matty gets done tearing them up, they will actually think twice before they post. this is good, as it may actually avoid tweeker-like spewing trash and bs that comes out of people's mouths.

This is a good thing!....

My final thought on permanent bans: It's unnecessary. If people feel bullied by him, IGNORE him if you don't have the nads to debate him.  Onlookers, Ann, if they get scared off by Matty, I say who wants em here anyway!

In California, 3 strikes(3 Felonies) and you go to prison for life. Memo to mods:  This is an internet site. Opinions
and people make it what it is. This in fact, is your life's blood. Why get rid of it?  It is silly. And oh yeah, the last time I checked, Matty has yet to commit one felony.
Positive since 1985

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2007, 09:00:15 AM »
Wow Jeffrey, wow.

Has it not occurred to you that maybe not everyone is as thick skinned as you? That some people are freaked out enough - with a new diagnosis, say - and don't need to be further upset? It can be a huge step for some to put themselves out there on the internet to begin with, without having to worry about someone making fun of them. It's not just Matty who has done this either.

As for the permanent bannings, we don't want to see people banned either. We want this place to be accessible to anyone - and that includes the timid as well as the bold. We don't want to ban Matty, we just want him to tone down some of his more acerbic wit when it's directed at other members. I really don't think that's too much to ask. Matty has agreed to do this and I for one am grateful. (thank you Matty)

And by the way, we welcome and encourage people to voice their opinions. It is totally possible to do so without stomping all over the feelings of someone else. All we ask is that people have a little respect for others - we don't ask that you like everyone here, but we do expect respectful exchanges. Good manners cost nothing.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2007, 01:07:46 PM »

I can certainly see two very different viewpoints here.  I'm certain some of my own sarcastic commentary isn't well received by a few, but I guess they could PM me or put me on ignore.

My only issue is when an entire thread is ruined on a good topic by whichever  demolition crew comes in and really isn't remotely funny or amusing.

Personally, I am stealing Matty's line about "America's favorite dancing meat puppet, Terry Shaivo."   Damn, that shit was funny and so true!

I don't know all the details on this situation, but have enjoyed commentary from several.   I also must say I get tired of a few of the perpetual Polly Anna types on some personal spiritual quest to impress everyone with their decades of "wisdom" and find many of them are equally offensive and disruptive. 

Not trying at all to complain about the moderators mind you.  It's a tough job no doubt. 

I've referred to some of these people who constantly ruin every topic as the "usual suspects" and if it's not one group it's another.  I'm not a cheerleader of any of em and don't drag others to champion my cause or ask personal friends to support my opinions one way or another.

Take what ya need and leave the rest!   I need to keep telling myself that!

Peace!

Wesley




 

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2007, 01:15:44 PM »
I also must say I get tired of a few of the perpetual Polly Anna types on some personal spiritual quest to impress everyone with their decades of "wisdom" and find many of them are equally offensive and disruptive. 


We get it my dear Austin, we get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Peter Staley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: For Matty.le.damné and Benjamin aka Aupoint...
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2007, 01:27:40 PM »
I also must say I get tired of a few of the perpetual Polly Anna types on some personal spiritual quest to impress everyone with their decades of "wisdom" and find many of them are equally offensive and disruptive. 

Wesley -- clearly flamebait.  Consider yourself warned.  And Moffie, use the Moderator Report link next time.

I'm locking this thread.

Peter

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.