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Author Topic: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com  (Read 54033 times)

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Offline rayvjr

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  • Posts: 45
    • Just Tested Positive.Com
An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« on: February 28, 2007, 12:29:34 AM »
I created the website thinkpoz.com because I felt something was missing.  I felt there needed to be a website for us to come together and socialize, not necessarily to just seek medical information and treatment options.  I wanted us to have a true social networking community.  I wanted us to meet others, make friends, fall in love, whatever...  I guess there are some who are threatened by the fact that we may have created something special.  I just don't understand why others would seek to stop what we are doing.  However, I must report that today I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms.  I thought poz was what we were, a state of being.  I see other companies and websites utilizing the word poz, however, it's us that have drawn the attention of Poz Magazine.  I am almost certain that they trademarked AIDSMEDS too, I guess they own the word AIDS now!   As an attorney, I have fought Trademark cases, and I am sad to tell you its not always about who is right, most often it's about who has the most attorneys and the most money to kill the other with litigation.  I am not a rich man and to be honest they could probably bankrupt me with litigation costs.  I am however a man of principle.  A person who believes in right and wrong.  Tonite I feel ashamed.  I am ashamed that a company built supposedly to help benefit people living with HIV and AIDS is attempting to stop what I am trying to build, and I believe the only reason is that they wish to keep the monopoly they have on making money off people living with HIV and AIDS.  They want to keep all the advertisers and they fear we could somehow succeed here.  I truly began this website to benefit others.  Yes, I would love to have sponsers to help with the costs and make the website better, but this was never about money for me.  After reading many of the emails you have sent me and remembering that there is more to life than money, I have decided I will not change the name.  If Poz Magazine and Poz.com wish to pick a fight with us, well I guess I will have to fight back.  I know most of you understand the importance of what we are building here and I know you will stand behind me and fight with me.  So, I ask you please to let Poz.com, Poz Magazine and AIDSMEDS know just what you think about their efforts to shut us down.  You let them know we are fighters, and that they have lost the focus of what they came into business for, for us.  I will not change the name of this website.  I hope you respect that. 

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2007, 12:38:52 AM »
I created the website thinkpoz.com because I felt something was missing.  I felt there needed to be a website for us to come together and socialize, not necessarily to just seek medical information and treatment options.  I wanted us to have a true social networking community.  I wanted us to meet others, make friends, fall in love, whatever...  I guess there are some who are threatened by the fact that we may have created something special.  I just don't understand why others would seek to stop what we are doing.  However, I must report that today I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms.  I thought poz was what we were, a state of being.  I see other companies and websites utilizing the word poz, however, it's us that have drawn the attention of Poz Magazine.  I am almost certain that they trademarked AIDSMEDS too, I guess they own the word AIDS now!   As an attorney, I have fought Trademark cases, and I am sad to tell you its not always about who is right, most often it's about who has the most attorneys and the most money to kill the other with litigation.  I am not a rich man and to be honest they could probably bankrupt me with litigation costs.  I am however a man of principle.  A person who believes in right and wrong.  Tonite I feel ashamed.  I am ashamed that a company built supposedly to help benefit people living with HIV and AIDS is attempting to stop what I am trying to build, and I believe the only reason is that they wish to keep the monopoly they have on making money off people living with HIV and AIDS.  They want to keep all the advertisers and they fear we could somehow succeed here.  I truly began this website to benefit others.  Yes, I would love to have sponsers to help with the costs and make the website better, but this was never about money for me.  After reading many of the emails you have sent me and remembering that there is more to life than money, I have decided I will not change the name.  If Poz Magazine and Poz.com wish to pick a fight with us, well I guess I will have to fight back.  I know most of you understand the importance of what we are building here and I know you will stand behind me and fight with me.  So, I ask you please to let Poz.com, Poz Magazine and AIDSMEDS know just what you think about their efforts to shut us down.  You let them know we are fighters, and that they have lost the focus of what they came into business for, for us.  I will not change the name of this website.  I hope you respect that.

Um, whilst I have no reason to doubt you (nor any reason to take up the cudgels on your behalf) how do you think posting this here will be constructive?

MtD
(Who genuinely wishes to know)

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2007, 12:50:36 AM »
Having read through your last postings through November, I have fairly strong opinions. Good luck on your journey. But the real fight is that virus, not anyone or anything else. As one year post diagnosis, I respectfully submit you have other fish to fry.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,305
  • His name is Carl.
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2007, 01:02:41 AM »
Still, the notion of complete ownership of the term "poz" sounds a bit like Paris Hilton laying total claim to the word "hot".  I'm not necessarily disputing that may be the case legally...just sayin'.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline texasguy

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  • Posts: 77
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 01:26:18 AM »
As a matter of disclosure, I have joined thinkpoz.com as a member.  I do not know Ray, the creator of thinkpoz.com, and have no vested interest.  All I can say that his website was welcoming to me and seems no more or less legitimate than this one. 

But in light of the recent CSI debacle, I am worried.  Ray has nothing to be worried about legal action regarding "poz" (that's ridiculous), but I am concerned about the source of the email.  I hope Ray will elaborate to the best of his ability.  When you have legal action in your face and limited resources....well I think we all know what "chillling effect" means.

I hope that AIDSmeds/POZ is not a part of this, and it is a misunderstanding.
8/12/2008    102        402      26.8
                    VL         CD4     CD4%
7/11/2008   Started Atripla and Lisinopril for high blood pressure
6/8     654000(?) 347     20.4
5/08   42100       287      20.5
11/07 52930       438     27.3
5/07   48800       356     22.2
2/07   89000       316     23.2
7/06   51700       459     25.3
2/06   346000     386     20.3
           VL          CD4     CD4%
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Offline ScooterTrash

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2007, 01:41:26 AM »
As a matter of disclosure, I have joined thinkpoz.com as a member.  I do not know Ray, the creator of thinkpoz.com, and have no vested interest.  All I can say that his website was welcoming to me and seems no more or less legitimate than this one. 

I hope that AIDSmeds/POZ is not a part of this, and it is a misunderstanding.

I agree... I also have recently joined thinkpoz and it has been a positive experience.
I don't know anything about Trademark/Copyrite law, and I don't care about it. What concerns me is that an entity which I THOUGHT existed for the betterment of HIV+ (is the + sign Trademarked yet?) people,  would go after a little guy because he wants to give us a place to go.

Hang in there Ray

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2007, 01:45:37 AM »
I'm about to go lay claim to "High Five", "High 5", "Hi Five" and "Hi 5".   

Sooner or later, you suckers are gonna owe me some change.

EDITIED TO SAY:


"There's Gold In Them There Ills !"
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 01:47:44 AM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline aupointillimite

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  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2007, 01:54:33 AM »
I'm about to go lay claim to "High Five", "High 5", "Hi Five" and "Hi 5".   

Sooner or later, you suckers are gonna owe me some change.

EDITIED TO SAY:


"There's Gold In Them There Ills !"

I tried laying claim to calling K-Fed "Fed Ex" back in June 2005... because I knew divorce was inevitable.

US Magazine never returned my emails.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2007, 01:55:05 AM »
If Smart + Strong means to squash other web sites that utilize the common term POZ or POS or AIDS, then I submit that they have seriously too much time on their hands.

I chose to cast my lot with AIDSMEDS because of the careful research that goes into the LESSONS, and the hard work I personally did to bring first tiered peer-reviewed scientific credibility to the transmissions and testing part of the forum.

I am not blowing my own horn here. I am very proud of that stuff.

As for the support sections, honestly? I am glad I am a guy and able to pee long distances, as that seems to be a defining feature.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline newt

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  • Posts: 3,877
  • the one and original newt
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2007, 06:13:46 AM »
Few more to sue....

www.planetpoz.org
www.pozmagic.co.uk
www.pozseattle.org
www.dcyngpozsocials.com
www.pozireland.org
www.nmpoz.org
www.mypozlife.com
www.pozmatch.com
www.poz.ch
http://sandiego.citysearch.com/profile/37215728 (Poz - a designer shoe company, San Diego)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chicagopoznetwork

etc

POZ is the international acronym for an airport in Poland a protein sequence also, and half of a trademarked name for a gate post fixing.
 
S+S didn;t invent the damn 3-letter word but lawyers is lawyers. Now I understand the concept of friendly fire. One is strangely reminded of Abbott and the Norvir price hike.  Capital is capital.

- matt (deffo a Leninist now) the newt
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 06:18:28 AM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline edfu

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2007, 06:24:02 AM »
If what Ray says is accurate, I think this is cause for a major scandal.  It's simply outrageous.
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline poet

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  • Poet living and working in Central Maine
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2007, 06:24:16 AM »
Ray, as an attorney I assume that you know what your major misstep has been: you have 'used' aidsmeds.com to launch two internet ventures of your own, through posts, through your profile and perhaps other ways.  You may have also contacted members of the forums about your sites, members with whom contact was possible because of aidsmeds.com  From what I understand, both ventures of yours are currently free, are not money making ventures for you, but since the potential for them to make money is always there....  

When I realised that, as a bodyworker, the main massage/bodywork website for male practitioners seeking male clients was inactive, non-working masseurs being retained, working masseurs unable to add themselves to it, I created one and then two websites targeting the exact same markets.  I 'used' the existing website as the basis to design mine.  But I never 'used' the existing site to build membership on mine: I simply contacted masseurs and bodyworkers from every resource I could find.  Apparently the model I created worked, because not many years afterwards, two new websites were launched as 'for fee' ventures, where mine and the original website were and are free to use and link from.  Not that different from HP moving from copiers to notebooks and now software.  Since 'bodywork' and 'massage' are general words, none of us could claim to own the terms/words.

In your case, having used poz.com and aidsmeds.com to launch your websites, since the term 'poz' is not as general as hiv positive and since your first website would seem to have lifted the actual name of a forum here, I Just Tested Poz, I would encourage you to not waste your funds fighting things and perhaps take what you are doing and simply change the names to create a clear distance between yourself and poz.com.  Best, Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline mgradylady3

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2007, 06:30:20 AM »
I am also a member of Thinkpoz.com I dont understand why Ray  should change the name. I was diagnosed a little over a year ago and this website it truly unique. It is a Great bunch of people that could chat instead of posting a question and waiting for a responce. I made some great friends that i enjoy talking with everyday. It's not like I still dont  go on Poz Mag site I enjoy reading the forums there too. Ray keep up the fight to keep us together!!!! Marlene

Offline mjmel

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  • Posts: 2,069
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2007, 06:38:40 AM »
What if what Poet says is accurate? In that case, nothing more to this than a bit of underdog lamentation.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 07:43:30 AM by mjmel »

Offline carousel

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  • Posts: 821
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2007, 06:54:14 AM »
Unlike the other sites mentioned above, you are actually using the poz.com within your name.  It doesn't seem that unfair to me.  This site has also provided a certain amount of publicity.   

I just wonder if, in order to make it clearer and less confusing for all users, a name change would be helpful.

I hope your site goes well.

Offline bravebuddharich

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!!
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2007, 08:04:10 AM »
I have found the responses to this thread really incredible!! Obnoxious! Callous! Thoughtless!! How dare Poz magazine try to "own" the word poz? And since there is no other way to publicize places like thinkpoz - but what makes me angry is the weird humor post after post - not funny, and actually offensive! I've started to dislike this site alot. I need to vent about this, because it is all making me very sad today. I have disagreed with all of the attacks on the original poster, and I think people should be ashamed of themselves!!

Offline Dachshund

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2007, 08:30:47 AM »
Sounds like there is more to this than just the use of the word poz. As Matt pointed out, there are plenty of sites with the word poz in them. I'll withhold judgement until the powers to be chime in.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 08:32:18 AM by Dachshund »

Offline David_CA

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  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2007, 08:54:22 AM »
I don't give a rat's butt if somebody uses the word 'poz' in the address of their website.  I would hope that others wouldn't, either.  Maybe Ray should change the name to something "thinkaids.com".  No, that's got part of the aidsmeds.com name in it.  Maybe a name like 'livingwithadeadlyvirus.com' would be good.  I wonder about aidsmeds.com, in its infant startup days.  I'm curious if the founders ever posted the words aidsmeds.com on any other website? 

I'm not knocking aidsmeds.com or what it's meant to me.  I think that since being 'purchased' by poz.com, the BIG picture (focus) may have changed some ($$$).  JK, the lessons are invaluable to many, but the other site, supposedly, is a social site.  I don't see how one more social outlet can be so bad.  On the other hand, what if Ray eventually did make some money from his website about HIV / AIDS.  That would be another story.  We all know NO website would do that, right?  Surely there's something more to this story than what we've been told, at least I hope so.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline koi1

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  • Posts: 713
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2007, 08:57:32 AM »
I think the only ethically questionable tactic was contacting members here to build another, potentially lucrative website. In a sense, it is like stealing the rolodex of your employer. Though the founders of this website have sold it to a bigger entity, a lot of work went in creating this website from the ground up. The trademark law states that if a product could reasonably be mistaken for another similar product then there is cause for concern. In other words the POZ name for an airport is of no concern, because the products are in no way similar. What Ray did (and I don't know what his intentions were or are, seem to be ethically questionable). Saying he is not in it for the money is really innacurate at best. Think if you started a successful business and someone decided to do this to you. How would you feel?

As far as the the term poz is concerned, it started before the magazine, however if they trademarked it (which I am sure they have) there could be other issues.
Names belong to whoever trademarked it, thinkpoz  some would argue is much too similar to not cause confusion. It could come up when doing a search engine with "poz". 

The argument that this website has lost something and another one needs to emerge, is just an excuse to start another money making venture. Ain't no shame in making money, but call it what it is and don't proposition members here, as you did with me when I first joined this website.

There are lots of fantastic people here. I have had my differences with others, but I got the support especially at the beginning, and it has made an impact on my life in dealing with this disease.

rob
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 09:15:57 AM by koi1 »
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline Jerry71

  • Member
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  • {Lexiva, Norvir, Complera} Still Breathing!!!
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2007, 09:00:16 AM »
I joined thinkpoz.com. It is a very nice site something like myspace but much better it is for people like me and you living with hiv, where we can go and have fun and chat and talk about our problems and there is always someone to listen to you. This site is not a forum or lessons site its more of a friendship site where we can chat and have fun. POZ is what we are we can not change that we are what we are POZ.

It is a shame that POZ.COM thinks that they own the word POZ.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline David_CA

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2007, 09:04:15 AM »
Saying he is not in it for the money is really innacurate at best.
How so?
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline koi1

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2007, 09:19:29 AM »
Well, if get advertisement money, then he is in it for the money.

That is not a sin. But stealing clients is.

rob
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline koi1

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2007, 09:23:05 AM »
If I remember correctly, the person who started the new website, dit not try to give people support here, but just tried to troll for client for his new website, successfully I might add.

diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline Jerry71

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2007, 09:26:58 AM »
Who said Ray was stealing clients from poz or aidsmeds? This is America land of the free. It is your right too choose which site you want to join. No one is putting a gun to your head or twisting your arm to join. As far as memberships and subscribitons goes for people living with HIV well that is a shame. Most of us out there barely can afford to go out and eat or have a nice place to live. :'(

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2007, 09:35:05 AM »
I will always look askance at those who use this forum to advertise another forum.

Is it illegal? I don't know. But it rubs me the wrong way.

When I decided to come back here, it was for the occasional educational experience and discussion of issues relevant to me and HIV. Any socializing is purely incidental.

PS: Thanks Newt. I was collecting a list of web sites and social online forums with the words "POZ" or "AIDS" in them. I am glad you posted yours.

Now that the dirty laundry is out, I would be interested to know what's really going on.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Welcome Thread

Offline thunter34

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2007, 10:06:50 AM »
I agree with Jonathan.  There's got to be more to this story than what we have so far, and I would like to know what it's really all about.  As Newt pointed out, there are already tons of sites that use Poz and Positive in their titles.  There has to be more to this than that. 


As a sidenote:  I'm curious to learn more about the "weird humor" bit that bravebuddahrich was referencing in this thread that was so offensive.  I didn't see it.  What am I missing?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Cliff

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2007, 10:31:32 AM »
There is probably more to the story, especially considering that the original posting is a bit vague.  This is an interesting topic though.

I believe S+S could have a trademark for Poz, since it is a distinct reference to their magazine (Poz).  Bu I can't imagine it would be good business practice to sue people living with HIV simply because they used the word Poz for (insignificant) commercial reasons, especially considering how many folks have websites/blogs/email addys, etc.. with that word.  Is it possible that it may be too commonly used (commercial use that is) for a trademark to be enforceable?

Offline racingmind

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2007, 10:51:57 AM »
I see no reason that they two cyber entities cannot co-exist.  I think perhaps they (Poz.Com) are perturbed because their site is being used to promote it. 

One thing I do know....if you don't have the money, don't litigate.  The only ones that win are the fucking lawyers.
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline racingmind

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2007, 11:05:14 AM »
I would just change it to "ThinkPositive".  Same message, no muss, no fuss.  Everyone wins. 

Life is too short for fussing and fighting my friend....

oops..is that a quote?  I think it is. I will research who owns the rights to it and get back to y'all......
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline Lwood

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2007, 11:08:17 AM »
I'm about to go lay claim to "High Five", "High 5", "Hi Five" and "Hi 5".   

I beat you to it www.highfiver.blogspot.com

just waiting for a cerial company to buy me out for large $$$$$
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
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Offline Boo Radley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2007, 11:10:43 AM »
I don't understand the animosity towards ray held by some posters in this thread.  Thinkpoz.com was set up with excellent intentions and Ray did not hawk it innumerable times or claim it was an alternative to AM.   Thinkpoz is not competing with AM or poz.com in any way.  Ray would be a fool if he set up the site thinking he'd profit from it in the future and I seriously doubt he has any such thoughts.  He spent his own money to create a new space for poz people to interact with each other and I commend him for his efforts.

I may be mistaken but I didn't receive an email message about thinkpoz even though my email address displays in my profile.  I joined thinkpoz.com based on Ray's mention of it in a post.  A few months ago another new poz site retrieved my address from AM and solicited my participation.  I put my email address in my profile knowing such events might happen.

Ray has not done anything wrong and it's absurd if S+S is claiming ownership of "poz" and demanding he rename his site.  Besides being unfair such a request would require Ray to incur more expense than he already has and changing a web address is a pain in the buttocks.   He is an individual with limited resources and is a veritable David challenging the Goliath of S+S., or, rather Goliath is challenging David in this case.

Boo



String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline poet

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2007, 11:18:09 AM »
1) What we know at the moment is hearsay: 'However, I must report that today I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms.'  What exactly S & S believes, is doing, is not doing, is an unknown and until we get some direct clarification or actual documents to look at, as we would a med. study, we can only reply to what one side seems to be telling us.

2) I mentioned my own websites to show that I do understand how one website or business and its perceived gaps does lead to new websites and businesses.  That's great, should be encouraged, supported and I sent a p.m. to Ray to make clear that I could see a logical legal argument as must he, so he certainly could try other options if need be, such as not using poz.com as a stepping point for his ventures or using a url which embraces what he is doing without clipping things over here.  Again, his first site almost quotes a forum name and was promoted from here.  Best, Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline Lwood

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2007, 11:20:18 AM »
Im going to join Thinkpoz.com just to ruffle the feathers of the birds that be....
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
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Offline racingmind

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2007, 11:25:11 AM »
Based on what Boo just posted...

I couldn't agree more with everything that Boo just said.  I certainly have no animosity towards Ray.  I like his site.  My comments were more on the practical side.....

It comes down to a matter of dollars and cents....you can either change the name and incur a known expense...

or get ready for a legal battle at an unknown expense.

Now, surely he received a "threatening" letter.  Are they serious?  Or is it a scare tactic with no real intentions behind it?

Unless I have so much money that I just don't care, I wouldn't want to spend any money on a lawyer to find out.

Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2007, 11:34:14 AM »
I agree with Win.  We only have one side of the story.  Im not saying its incorrect but I usually prefer to have BOTH sides before I get too worked up about it.

It may be a standard letter the attorneys send out to anyone they find with the word poz in the webaddress.  I know as an employer we have standard non compete letters we send out to former employees.  They generally dont mean much.  I dont think this is the DAVID vs. GOLIATH story some are making it out to be. 

I would caution everyone to remember there are always two sides to a story.  I don't have feelings one way or the other for ray but even if it is all true, as someone poignantly pointed out in an earlier thread "this is America" is it really such a shock that attorneys are involved?  It IS America.......

Edited to add.... he says he received "word" about this situation.  So we don't even know if it was a letter or an email or a phone conversation.  nor do we know the authenticity of this "word".  Again, nothing one way or the other for ray just want the whole story.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 11:49:00 AM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline David_CA

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2007, 11:43:30 AM »
FWIW, this is the first I've heard of this new website, so Ray sure hasn't reached all of us.  I'm online often and read most posts, but I don't recall ever reading about his site.  I do lose track of what's going on when I'm out of town (no internet), so I might have missed something.

If he's violated a TOS or something by 'soliciting' his site, surely he'd been warned or given a time out, right?  Lawyers wouldn't be involved if that's all there is to it.  So ethical or not, soliciting his site here probably isn't the issue for legal involvement.

Surely we'll here something from the folks at POZ... or maybe they've been advised no to publically comment.  :o

Like AC says, it could be one of those standard letters that are sent out to scare folks, but who knows.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
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Offline thunter34

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2007, 11:56:47 AM »
David,

Just for reference, this is a link to an early thread where the ''this site vs that site'' thing came into play.  For the record, I have joined up at the other site.  I have not spent very much time on it yet.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=5920.msg65972#msg65972
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2007, 11:59:08 AM »
I think it's funny to see all the poz ladies with their knickers in a twist.

Offline ga1964

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2007, 12:02:19 PM »
When I was diagnosed and searching for a support group on the net, I searched "HIV/AIDS support" and thinkpoz was one of the first sites that came up.  I joined and while chatting with Ray that first day, I asked if there were any other sites and he informed me of this one.  I don't know if anyone can trademark the word "Poz" or not, but as long as he is not asking members for money to be a part of his site, what is the harm, it might just help the next poor soul who has just been diagnosed and looking for support.  In my experience when I was looking, I thought it was pretty sad that there were so few results when searching "HIV/AIDS support" on the net.  It made me feel even more isolated than I did after hearing my diagnosis.  I can come here for medical advice and support, and go to his site if I want to chat instantly with someone.  Being newly diagnosed, I think its rather disturbing that anyone would want to shut down a site that allows us to get together to help each other whether it be for medical advice or just chatting.  Yes, you can private message here, but you cannot instantly chat with someone, so his site does offer something that you can not do here and sometimes I would like to chat with someone and not have to wait for hours for a reply.  His site is also designed to be like "Myspace", but for us,  should Myspace sue him also?  

One thing I think we all can agree on is that we all are in the same boat here and we should be supporting each other.  Whether he tried to "solicit" members from this site, I don't know.  I do know how ever that when I asked him for info on any other sites, he did tell me about this one, not that he had to.  Being a member of the "Gay community" and the fight for acceptance we face in this world, I would thing that the "Poz community" would be more understanding that we all need as many places as possible to find support and love.  My whole world was turned upside down in Dec. 06, and finding others that could relate with what I was going thru and feeling was very important and helped me realize that I was not as isolated as I originally thought.  If Ray does happen to make money from "Advertisers" on his site in the future, whats the harm to this site?  ABC advertises on CBS, CBS advertises on NBC, NBC advertises on FOX, etc., and how many different channels does Trojan advertise on?  Whats the big f**king deal?  His site was formed to give us, "the Poz community", a place to find others going thru the same things we are and help and support each other.  God Bless him for that.

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2007, 12:05:19 PM »
I dont think this is the DAVID vs. GOLIATH story some are making it out to be. 

How dare you disagree with my totally 100% accurate, faithful, and true statements??  You brown-nosing, ring-kissing, groveling lackey for corporate America!!!

You shall feel the sting of the whip for your effrontery!!

Boo

P.S.  I agree we have only one side of the story so hope ray can share more with us but my views were qualified by "if," meaning if Ray's story is accurate I feel S+S is over-reacting.
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2007, 12:06:56 PM »
Well guys, this is really something that has  always been a part and parcel of Capitalism.  I can remember when Mc Donalds was making an attempt to sue everyone in Scotland whose name was Mc Donald.  

When I was working for Xerox many years ago, we were admonished to make sure our customers were not using Xerox as a noun, pronoun, verb, adverb, adjective or any other use than to state the name of the company.  Now, over 30 years later, xerox is accepted all over the globe as a synonym of "Copy" and if you are in India and ask for a xerox of any given piece of paper, they understand that you are requesting a copy of said piece of paper.

Kleenex likewise has been one that fought tooth and nail to keep their name from becoming a word that meant "tissue", but to no avail.  

Capitalism is by nature a system that encourages name usage and adaptation, but corporations fighting this natural progression is also part of the nature of the beast.

As far as what Ray has done, I say good for him and I support not only his site, but also this one, and The Body, and just about all the other ones that bring attention to this pandemic.  What really disturbs me is that S&S is so interested in profits and protection of an obviously global three letter word, that they have been instrumental in integrating into the grammer of the globe; that they would risk being responsible for raising the stress levels of an HIV+ person (Ray) to possibly dangerous levels.  I wonder if anyone over there at S&S would visit him in the hospital due to the possible damage to his health resulting from this really stupid and nasty fight?  I don't know, but I bet I know the answer.

Win brought up some important issues around the legality of all this, but still, Newt has offered nutralizing points in his world wide list of the use of said three letter word.  I hope to find out if S&S is going to take legal action beyond the shores of Manhattan Island for all those off shore also.

This whole thing is an exercise in Mental Masturbation.

Just my view.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Moffie65

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2007, 12:15:13 PM »
I created the website thinkpoz.com because I felt something was missing.  I felt there needed to be a website for us to come together and socialize, not necessarily to just seek medical information and treatment options.  I wanted us to have a true social networking community.  I wanted us to meet others, make friends, fall in love, whatever

I think the original post and this first few sentences CLEARLY state that thinkpoz's mission is in any way infringing on what this site provides.

Like I said above, if it is strictly a "name" thing then S & S are just a few years late and a lot of dollars short of a full account.

Love.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2007, 12:20:43 PM »
How dare you disagree with my totally 100% accurate, faithful, and true statements??  You brown-nosing, ring-kissing, groveling lackey for corporate America!!!

You shall feel the sting of the whip for your effrontery!!

Boo

P.S.  I agree we have only one side of the story so hope ray can share more with us but my views were qualified by "if," meaning if Ray's story is accurate I feel S+S is over-reacting.

Boo, come and join me on the Daark Siide and feel the true power of the force!


LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2007, 12:22:03 PM »
Ray it looks like you changed the name once already.  from www.justtestedpositive.com to thinkpoz.com.  Why the change in the first place and Why not change again?
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2007, 12:25:06 PM »
If I create a site called iPoz.com will I be sued by both Poz.com AND Apple Computers?

I hope so.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Buckmark

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2007, 12:25:49 PM »
I don't have nearly the information I'd like to see about this.  I'm not sure that even
half the story is given here.   In his initial post Ray says that "I must report that today
I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms."
What type of communication did you receive, Ray?  Can you provide some of the details?
And there's been no information offered up by Smart and Strong on this matter.  So until
I see many more details, my opinion would only be speculation.  But it hard to imagine that
anyone (person or business) owns the word "poz".  Given the intricacies of intellectual
property law, however, I just don't know.  

I will say that I am always skeptical about what attorneys say in public.  In my experience
the primary purpose of such communications are usually to sway public opinion, with the
dissemination of facts being only secondary.  My point?  Both sides need to offer up a lot
more information about what is going on here, before I can make up my own mind about this.

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline thunter34

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2007, 12:30:50 PM »
Ray it looks like you changed the name once already.  from www.justtestedpositive.com to thinkpoz.com.  Why the change in the first place and Why not change again?

Ray has said sometime back that he changed the name because he felt the old moniker came across as too narrow- as a social site only for those fresh on the High Five scene.  He wanted to make sure that those who had been poz (am I making a copyright infringment here?) for a long time were aware that the site was for them also.  

I'm sure after making such a change already, he is far from eager to start that process anew.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2007, 12:36:16 PM »
Ray has said sometime back that he changed the name because he felt the old moniker came across as too narrow- as a social site only for those fresh on the High Five scene.  He wanted to make sure that those who had been poz (am I making a copyright infringment here?) for a long time were aware that the site was for them also.  

I'm sure after making such a change already, he is far from eager to start that process anew.

Gotcha.

And for what its worth I think this will all be much ado about nothing.  Mark my words.  Nothing will come of any of it.  But the debate is fun I guess.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Robert

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2007, 12:37:27 PM »
when I first joined Aidsmeds we had a chat room.  This was with the old software.  No one used it.  Actually I used it quite a few times when I first joined.  I met James (Opalcat) there and we would talk and talk and talk.  We had both joined around the same time and had similar experiences and the "chat" function was very, very vital in answering our questions, allaying our fears and bringing us together.  James isn't on here much anymore but we still chat at least once a week by phone.

Chat rooms and HIV/AIDS go hand in hands.  For whatever reason Aidsmeds couldn't make it work.  When they got their new software they left it out completely.  Didn't even offer it, much less ask us if we wanted it.  Now Ray is providing that opportunity.  Good for him.

And, like Lwood, I just joined just to tweak the powers that be.

robert
..........

Offline thunter34

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2007, 12:42:23 PM »
I use the PM function like chat on here all the time...almost as quickly as that on occasion.  My PM box is hovering somewhere around around 1,500 or so right now.  It's caught me a time or two!  I learned the hard way that more than 20 PM's an hour is verboten.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline rayvjr

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2007, 12:55:45 PM »
I have read all of your replies.  I will tell you that yesterday afternoon I received a phone call from someone identifying themselves as "Giovanni" from Poz Magazine.  I had recently issued a Press Release for the website in an effort to get more members.  I thought Poz Magazine was reaching out to interview me, as I had done two earlier newspaper interviews.  I was excited about the possibility of being interviewed by Poz Magazine.  When I reached "Giovanni" I was informed that Poz Magazine had seen the press release and the someone identified as "the Boss" had contacted Giovanni to inform me that we were infringing on their Trademark and would I change it to thinkpos.com.  I was caught off guard, and questioned how Poz Magazine could feel that they owned the three letters poz in any form.  I was offered a subscription to the magazine and I told them I would have to get back to them.  This is my last post.  I did post on this website a few times, in fact, I invited Mr.Peter Staley to justtestedpositive.com, and he visited it.  I note that I thought we were on the same side at the time from Mr. Staley's response, which was:

    Re: (No subject)
ę Sent to: rayvjr on: December 16, 2006, 12:01:05 PM Ľ     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice job on the new website!  And thanks for the links to our forums and poz.com/aidsmeds.com!

Peter

I did change the name when we went to the more Social Web Community Type Website.  I didnt want to alienate people who had been poz for a long time.  I don't recall posting about thinkpoz.com here.  I think someone else did, and I may had made some comments to their post.  I am a member on this website and I don't understand why people are so upset about me telling others about the site...dont we share information of this type?  I've seen numerous links to websites here.  However, I dont think that is the issue.  So, you have my side.  Hopefully they will not follow through and take any legal action, but if they do, so be it.  Hopefully, they will realize that the two sites are different, just as the names Poz Magazine and thinkpoz.com are different.  Well, I don't wanna be on this site anymore.  Goodbye.

Offline Joe K

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2007, 01:38:00 PM »
The creation of a website with the word poz in it, would create no confusion between the site and POZ magazine.  While I commend Ray on his efforts (and I just joined the site), I am very confused on how S&S could even construe that they somehow own the word "poz".  The term has been in use for so long that like Moffie said, the word has become part of the public domain.  S&S can copyright and TM their own magazine and website, but surely they have no power to force anyone to drop the term poz from an endeavor that is not trying to create confusion between a site name and this site, nor POZ magaine.

However, we do not have all the facts and until we do, we are just barking at the moon.

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2007, 01:41:46 PM »
I'm a member of Rays site, just not too active as yet, because it takes too many hours to get through the 'chatting' threads here!

They are completely different and offer something not offered here. They actually go hand in hand for those of us looking for support, friendships, medical information, services, etc.

Does Martha Stewart own the word 'Living' ??
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2007, 01:47:06 PM »



Islander (may I call you that... Long just does not sound right) ;) :D 

   I do not know about Martha, but I think Joe DiMaggio owns the word 'Cancer".

   Your friend Skeewie...

   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2007, 02:56:18 PM »
Again, this was a phone call from someone claiming to be with poz magazine.  And all they did was ask if he would change it.  They didnt threaten legal action from what I read.  I would think they make this call dozens of times to try and minimize those with a name similar to theirs.  Happens every day in the business world.  Again, I doubt this goes ANY further than a simple call that said hey would you mind changing it.  To which Ray said no, so "Giovanni" says to his boss, its a no go sir, now what did you need me to do this afternoon regarding blah blah blah.

Im sure it wont escalate into the big legal drama of the first post.  While it may SEEM rude, it is a fairly common business practice.  As hard as Ray as worked on his site and getting the word out, the people that started POZ and AIDSMEDS were there once too.  Do they not deserve the same respect for what they have built?

Two sides, always two sides.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Jerry71

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2007, 03:24:35 PM »
bump ;D

Offline ACinKC

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline David_CA

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2007, 03:45:08 PM »
So why have there been no responses from anybody from Poz, the original Aidsmeds (Tim and Peter), or the mods?  Curiouser and curiouser...


David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2007, 03:47:58 PM »
I would say because they dont have to comment.  This probably ISNT a big deal outside of Ray's world.  It certainly won't affect what is going on in here.  We can raise all the conspiracy theories we want.  But none of us know whats going on.

Two sides, always two sides.  (maybe i can trademark that)
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Ann

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2007, 04:00:46 PM »
I haven't commented because I'm just as much in the dark about this as anyone else; therefore, I have no comment to make.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline David_CA

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2007, 04:02:42 PM »
I would say because they dont have to comment.  This probably ISNT a big deal outside of Ray's world.  It certainly won't affect what is going on in here.  We can raise all the conspiracy theories we want.  But none of us know whats going on.

Two sides, always two sides.  (maybe i can trademark that)

Well DUH, of course they don't have to comment.  The mods, Peter, or Tim usually do comment when there are a number of posts expressing concerns about this website.  There is no conspiracy theory here, but usually, somebody steps in to set the record straight.  Two sides, of course.  I think all most are asking for is to hear the other side. 

D
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline David_CA

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2007, 04:03:11 PM »
I haven't commented because I'm just as much in the dark about this as anyone else; therefore, I have no comment to make.

Ann


Thanks, Ann (I mean that seriously).

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline thunter34

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2007, 04:20:18 PM »
This whole deal only got started around 12:30 this morning.  I suggest that Tim Horn and Peter haven't responded yet because they have lives outside of here and haven't been on the site since this has been up...and that one, the other or both will make any necessary statements once they do.

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #63 on: February 28, 2007, 04:26:11 PM »
Hmmmmm an intelligent and well thought out reply.  Is this kind of thing even ALLOWED on this site?!!?


Excellent points Timmy!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Ann

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #64 on: February 28, 2007, 04:30:29 PM »
This whole deal only got started around 12:30 this morning.  I suggest that Tim Horn and Peter haven't responded yet because they have lives outside of here and haven't been on the site since this has been up...and that one, the other or both will make any necessary statements once they do.



Has anyone thought that maybe they're just as in the dark as the rest of us? They work for POZ.com/S&S; they have bosses above them. Does the head of any of the corporations any of you work for tell you every time they make a phone call? Thought not!

Just sayin...

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2007, 04:40:53 PM »

As so many have already stated, we certainly don't have all the facts. I am sure this thread is being monitored quite closely. I would like to see a response from POZ.com on this issue.

Ray, good luck in your endeavors !! I reallly mean that. If by some chance laws suits come about, it could certainly bite someone in the ass, and I am not talking about Ray's.

Perhaps this thread will be read in the "Overheard in the forums" in a few days !!    ::)



Good luck Ray----------------Ray

Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline Cliff

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2007, 05:09:32 PM »
I'm not convinced this is a big issue.  S+S asked politely and even suggested a new name (plus a free subscription)....as opposed to images of lawyers threatening lawsuits, which was the imagine I had before.  S+S do have a trademark on "Poz", since it's the name of their magazine.  That doesn't mean they "own" the word, anymore than Apple Computers "own" the word Apple (which is trademarked by them).  It just means that the word identifies their product from all others.  You have to actively protect a trademark, or else you lose it.  If you don't attempt to prevent others from using your trademark, then it is assumed that you don't care if everyone uses it (worse case scenario...someone starts another magazine called Poz).  Peter was nice enough to go to Ray's website and even gave a compliment.  It doesn't sound like he's upset that Ray used aidsmeds to advertise the website.

Offline srmn98

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2007, 05:26:58 PM »
The absurdity of suing an HIV positive man for creating a website that helps people with a HIV diagnosis makes me nauseous. Is the point of aidsmeds.com not to help people with HIV find information and connect with those in similar situations?  Is it possible for HIV positive folks to have too much support? My answer is an adamant NO.

There are roughly 40 million HIV positive people worldwide. It is my estimation that those 40 million as well as those who love them donít give a shit about trademarks, copyrights, money, or website hits. What I and many others like me give a shit about is surviving with HIV, helping others survive with HIV, and finding a way to be an activist to both reduce stigma and further treatment/cure options in this world.

HIV might be about money to the drug companies. HIV might be about money to some lawyer for poz.com, poz magazine, or aidsmeds. But finding support is certainly priceless for those of us that live with this virus.

I cannot imagine how any person with a personal connection to HIV, or for that matter, any person with an ounce of compassion, would want to shut thinkpoz.com down.

We live in a difficult world. I ask the owners of aidsmeds.com, poz.com and poz magazine to put their thoughts into perspective. To me it is not an issue of trademark law, it is an issue of basic human decency.

www.thinkpoz.com helped and continues to help me survive and come to terms with my diagnosis in the most difficult period of my life. That is more powerful than any trademark. Enough said.

erika





Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2007, 05:29:41 PM »
The absurdity of suing an HIV positive man for creating a website that helps people with a HIV diagnosis makes me nauseous. Is the point of aidsmeds.com not to help people with HIV find information and connect with those in similar situations?  Is it possible for HIV positive folks to have too much support? My answer is an adamant NO.

There are roughly 40 million HIV positive people worldwide. It is my estimation that those 40 million as well as those who love them donít give a shit about trademarks, copyrights, money, or website hits. What I and many others like me give a shit about is surviving with HIV, helping others survive with HIV, and finding a way to be an activist to both reduce stigma and further treatment/cure options in this world.

HIV might be about money to the drug companies. HIV might be about money to some lawyer for poz.com, poz magazine, or aidsmeds. But finding support is certainly priceless for those of us that live with this virus.

I cannot imagine how any person with a personal connection to HIV, or for that matter, any person with an ounce of compassion, would want to shut thinkpoz.com down.

We live in a difficult world. I ask the owners of aidsmeds.com, poz.com and poz magazine to put their thoughts into perspective. To me it is not an issue of trademark law, it is an issue of basic human decency.

www.thinkpoz.com helped and continues to help me survive and come to terms with my diagnosis in the most difficult period of my life. That is more powerful than any trademark. Enough said.

erika

If you read EVERYTHING and not just the first post its pretty clear so far that no one is trying to shut it down.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2007, 05:43:04 PM »
Cliffie nailed this one right on it's little drama queen head.

S+S owns a trademark, "poz".

They are required to defend that trademark or they lose it.

Some joker starts a similar operation on the net with the name poz.

S+S fulfill their legal obligations and defend their trademark.

Fuss ensues.

Now I'm not a member of this "thinkpoz" outfit. Social networking sites make me think of places like Myspace with all those horrid tacky pages. Besides a large number of my online mates are here in the AIDSMEDS forums. I did visit the thinkpoz site, but the first thing I noticed was that it seems to be Flash based and Flash sux so I didn't go any further.

Don't get me wrong, I not interested in defending S+S and Poz.com. I don't have to, they can do that for themselves. I'm largely indifferent towards them and their staff. Like I said before, I'm here because my mates are here. But I don't think this Ray character is being entirely upfront with us here.

He's represented this whole affair as if some nasty big corporation is trying to rub out a little community based website in pursuit of the almighty dollar. Now that this has spun out some it appears that Ray has gilded the lilly somewhat. He hasn't been sued, he's been asked to change the name of his site.

MtD

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2007, 05:46:48 PM »
I did visit the thinkpoz site, but the first thing I noticed was that it seems to be Flash based and Flash sux so I didn't go any further.

omg... I did that *SO* many times previously when the originator of this thread would post about his web site.  It's like I'm allergic to Flash, much less a Flash-based IM service.  It's so yahoo.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2007, 05:50:25 PM »
Well, I don't wanna be on this site anymore.  Goodbye.

So you come in, stir up this shit storm and just blow out the door?!?  If that doesnt reek of drama queenish behavior then I don't know what does.

Im sorry, I was with you somewhat until I re-read your post.  It seems you didnt come here to garner a better understanding of what was going on. But rather to stir up the aforementioned shit storm and then hightail it back to your comfort zone.  And that is just wrong.  But if I recall we have seen this sort of behavior from you before if I'm not mistaken.

Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=6246.msg69846#msg69846
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=6246.msg69827#msg69827
But you came back within 3 days.

And as for you not promoting your site..
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8320.msg99071#msg99071
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8360.msg99810#msg99810
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8841.msg109506#msg109506
here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=9051.msg110807#msg110807

Just sayin...  Little too much drama for me.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 05:57:57 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2007, 05:59:21 PM »
Dear All,

For those who have wondered by you haven't heard from Peter, Tim, Ann and me, there's nothing mysterious about it. Peter is away this week on a very well earned vacation. Tim is at this very moment in flight from Los Angeles where he had been attending the Retroviral Conference, where there was some exciting news about two new meds. Info is already up on the site about it and I expect there will be more details when he gets back to town.

Neither Ann or I have any information about this issue. Like some others have said I'm just waiting until we get a fuller picture of what's up. I will say I don't think we have the full story...yet, and until we do it's all speculation and that's not a good place to hang out in. 



Andy Velez

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #73 on: February 28, 2007, 06:01:01 PM »
hmm, so Peter's off somewhere in a Speedo ( or less)  ;) :D ;D
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #74 on: February 28, 2007, 06:15:34 PM »
So you come in, stir up this shit storm and just blow out the door?!?  If that doesnt reek of drama queenish behavior then I don't know what does.

Im sorry, I was with you somewhat until I re-read your post.  It seems you didnt come here to garner a better understanding of what was going on. But rather to stir up the aforementioned shit storm and then hightail it back to your comfort zone.  And that is just wrong.  But if I recall we have seen this sort of behavior from you before if I'm not mistaken.

Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=6246.msg69846#msg69846
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=6246.msg69827#msg69827
But you came back within 3 days.

And as for you not promoting your site..
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8320.msg99071#msg99071
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8360.msg99810#msg99810
Here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8841.msg109506#msg109506
here... http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=9051.msg110807#msg110807

Just sayin...  Little too much drama for me.

My impression exactly.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline iana5252

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2007, 06:17:51 PM »
It is POZ's policy not to conduct legal business in a public forum.

Thank you for your feedback.

Best,
Ian
POZ GM
POZ.com | AIDSmeds.com | HepMag.com | RealHealthMag.com | TuSaludMag.com | SaneMag.com

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #76 on: February 28, 2007, 06:20:10 PM »
Oooooooo now it gets all cloak and dagger!  How exciting!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2007, 06:23:47 PM »
Count down to thread lock, anyone?

In T minus . . .

MtD

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2007, 06:27:25 PM »
Only if he comes back.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2007, 06:30:35 PM »
Being the little Nancy Drew that I am... I did find this in the Terms of Service.

10. LINKS, ADVERTISING AND THIRD-PARTY SERVICES

Links to other websites may be provided in the Service. Certain Smart + Strong branded services may be provided by third parties. Smart + Strong will not be responsible for the availability of such external sites or third-party services, and does not endorse and is not responsible or liable for any content, advertising, service, product, or other material on or available from such external sites, AIDSmeds.com, or third parties or for any damages caused by or in connection with such content, advertising, service, product or other material available from such sites or third parties.


11. SMART + STRONG's PROPRIETARY RIGHTS

Information made available to the User through the Service and the content of the Service may be protected under copyright, trademark, patent or other laws of the United States and foreign jurisdictions. User may use this information and content only as expressly authorized by Smart + Strong or the other proprietors of this information and content and may not reproduce, publicly display or perform, distribute or prepare derivative works of such information or content without express authorization of the proprietors thereof. "AIDSmeds", "SMART + Strong", and certain other trademarks and service marks displayed on the AIDSmeds.com Web site are trademarks and service marks of CDM Publishing, LLC, and the User shall not display or otherwise use for any purpose whatsoever such trademarks or service marks without the prior written permission of CDM Publishing, LLC.

Nothing that would seem to be germane to this situation... but seeming isn't meaning.

I'd like to know everything that's going on, personally... before passing judgment or even having an opinion on this.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline edfu

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2007, 06:37:44 PM »
Ian, is it POZ's policy to do nothing to help control a shit-storm in the public forum their corporate parent owns?  I guess "legal business" doesn't include "terms of membership" and "terms of use," which are the epitome of legalese in this public forum.  
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2007, 06:48:17 PM »
Ian, is it POZ's policy to do nothing to help control a shit-storm in the public forum their corporate parent owns?  I guess "legal business" doesn't include "terms of membership" and "terms of use," which are the epitome of legalese in this public forum. 

Hardly a shit-storm my dear. More of a fart in a small room.

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2007, 06:52:59 PM »
Ian just stated that they don't conduct legal business in the public forum. Nor would any other company. I don't think anything is wrong with that. I thought it was a very nice way to tell everyone to mind their own business. It doesn't have anything to do with us as forum members.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2007, 06:53:26 PM »

  Has anyone ever seen this Ray cat and Eldon at the same time ;) :D?

 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline edfu

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2007, 06:55:33 PM »
Semantics, definition, and opinion, Matty, just like I know your definition of and opinion about addiction differ from mine.   I was actually quoting ACinKC from above, anyway.    
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2007, 06:59:02 PM »
Semantics, definition, and opinion, Matty, just like I know your definition of and opinion about addiction differ from mine.   I was actually quoting ACinKC from above, anyway.   

I couldn't agree more babe. The word "shit-storm" always reminds me of the infamous "Should I Disclose" threads we had back in the old days.

Now THEY were shit-storms. :D

MtD

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2007, 07:11:37 PM »
Semantics, definition, and opinion, Matty, just like I know your definition of and opinion about addiction differ from mine.   I was actually quoting ACinKC from above, anyway.    

Thank you for giving the appropriate credit.  We dont want to get into another plagairism debate.

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2007, 07:14:04 PM »
We dont want to get into another plagairism debate.


Speak for yourself.  :P

MtD

Offline jyngfilm

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2007, 07:20:44 PM »
the only way to beat a lawyer is to die with nothing...sorry ray
<
>~jordon
munchausen by proxy is not an out in my case

Offline david25luvit

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2007, 07:56:43 PM »
Toto....this ain't Kansas no more. 
It"s the land of POZ...............
and perhaps that's not such a good thing after all.

Only time will tell...................
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline Sean Strub

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2007, 12:06:22 PM »
Sean Strub here. I would like to provide some history on the trademarking of the brand "POZ".  I started developing POZ magazine in 1993.  I am no longer a shareholder in the company; however, I am an advisory editor to POZ.

I was originally going to call the magazine PlusLife, but then I heard my (also HIV positive) friend, Matt Levine, refer to a mutual friend as "a pozzie" and I thought, bingo, "POZ" is what we would call the magazine.  I had not previously ever heard of anyone being referred to as "poz" nor had Stephen Gendin, my business partner, or the others  involved with launching the magazine.
 
We knew then nor know now of no previous occasion when the word POZ was used in print in reference to a person with HIV, prior to the publication of the first issue of POZ in the spring of 1994.  In fact, the early press coverage of the magazine's launch often included journalists (including from the GLBT community) asking us what the word POZ meant and how we came up with the name.   

Some people in the AIDS community, when they heard the name, confused us with P.A.W.S. (Pets Are Wonderful Support) a nonprofit in Los Angeles that helps people with HIV take care of their pets.  Their brand was a near-homonym to ours, but to many people in the community it was better known.  When they heard of POZ magazine, they thought it was a publication from P.A.W.S.

Since we started POZ, we have provided millions of free copies of the  magazine to people with hiv. I started the magazine with my own money; it was always financially precarious and run on a shoestring budget, even after I managed to attract some outside investors. 

When we sold the company and the new owner subsequently teamed up with AIDSmeds, POZ was able to expand its website and provide numerous free services through our online network, from the treatment expertise and information on AIDSmeds to the connections in POZ Personals and POZ Mentor. We are proud of what the POZ brand means to people with HIV--trusted, reliable, honest information about the epidemic--and it needs to be protected.

You may recall the lessons learned from how ACT UP's "brand" has been used.  "ACT UP" was not trademarked and anyone can use it however they choose.  But when one group, ACT UP/San Francisco, embraced a radically different agenda than the other ACT UP chapters, it caused confusion.   While the ideal of letting anyone use a brand however they choose is attractive, it is not practical for an enterprise that is trying to establish a level of trust with its audience.

We trademarked the name POZ because we had to protect what it meant and what we were building.  Without protecting the brand, we could not  have gotten the investors or financing we required over the years.  We could not have established the reputation that we have.

If we fail to protect our trademark rights, anyone could use it  however they want. Given the multitude of agendas surrounding the  epidemic, that could quickly dilute the POZ brand to a point where it becomes meaningless.  Any pharmaceutical company could use it, for  example.  Those with an agenda dangerous to people with HIV could use it. 
 
We do not want others to create confusion, intentionally or not, for readers of the magazine or users of our sites who are seeking information from POZ.  I  recognize that the word has become part of the vernacular--something I did not foresee 13 years ago when we named the magazine--and is part of the community.  But when a company doing work similar to POZ  (ie: information and connection to the HIV community) and using our trademarked name, it is confusing to people and it's trading on a brand we built and are obligated to protect.
 
We are not singling out any one website nor are we interested in closing anyone down. We simply ask that our trademark be respected in recognition of 13 years of free services, information and connection we have built for the HIV community. 

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #91 on: March 01, 2007, 12:16:35 PM »
There we go.  The OTHER side of the story as I have been waiting for.   Seems fair to me.   And it makes sense to me.  Let the panty bunching COMMENCE!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #92 on: March 01, 2007, 01:07:08 PM »
I completely understand the points made by Sean and congratulate him on a tremendous job with the magazine. Everything he said makes perfect sense.

I still don't think that thinkpoz.com, a chat room for HIV people would be interpreted by anyone to have any connection to POZ Magazine. Same goes for POZMATCH.com, an HIV dating site. ( I joined both pozmatch and Poz personals, so they're obviously not related-lol)

Hopefully both parties can sit down together and realize they're not working against each other at all.

Peace~
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #93 on: March 01, 2007, 01:13:34 PM »
That isnt the point.  The point is they HAVE to defend it.  Or they lose the trademark.  The fine line they have to walk in regards to how vigorously they defend it is the real story. 

But, I think all of this was caused by Ray and his initial the sky is falling post.  Uncalled for.  TOTALLY uncalled for.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2007, 01:20:26 PM »
All of what was caused by Ray? The reactions in the thread? Ray felt his website was threatened, and he posted it. Guess what, his sky may have been falling.

I also am not convinced POZ magazine owners are going to fight him , as they obviously haven't fought the other sites ( or didn't win). But he felt his site/wallet was in jeopardy. Somewhat reasonable, though some of the reactions to his post were not.
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2007, 02:05:54 PM »
Yeah guess I could have phrased that better.  Im having an OFF moring.  Check out my post in off topic, you'll see.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2007, 02:14:48 PM »
HAHA, I've already been there~~  ;D ;D
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline David_CA

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2007, 02:27:42 PM »
All of what was caused by Ray? The reactions in the thread? Ray felt his website was threatened, and he posted it. Guess what, his sky may have been falling.

I also am not convinced POZ magazine owners are going to fight him , as they obviously haven't fought the other sites ( or didn't win). But he felt his site/wallet was in jeopardy. Somewhat reasonable, though some of the reactions to his post were not.

Very well said. What's important to one person may not be important to another.  I can't remember when I first heard the term 'poz', but it sure wasn't in relation to a magazine or website.  It was used to refer to a person who was sick (he had AIDS) and was... poz.  He died in '96, so it had to be sometime before then.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2007, 03:56:02 PM »
Even though I could have phrased it better, the fact doesnt change that Ray came here with the agenda to stir the pot, and then he left in a huff.  This is a pattern with him.  And I personally just dont like it. 
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2007, 03:57:24 PM »
Even though I could have phrased it better, the fact doesnt change that Ray came here with the agenda to stir the pot, and then he left in a huff.  This is a pattern with him.  And I personally just dont like it. 

This does seem to be sort of a hit and run post.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #100 on: March 01, 2007, 04:03:12 PM »


    What are the odds that he'll be back?  I say the odds are 1-3 days and that is just signing on...  Come on RAVY baby I got some money riding here!!  Come to PAPA!!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #101 on: March 01, 2007, 04:09:06 PM »
Come on baby!  Let it riiiiiiide!  Let it riiiiiiiide!!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline thunter34

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #102 on: March 01, 2007, 04:10:14 PM »
Like said above, "Poz" is such a part of the vernacular now that I don't ever assume anything using those letters is related to the magazine unless I see the familiar orange and white colors.  

It's kind of the bio-hazard equivalent of the Golden Arches.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #103 on: March 01, 2007, 04:20:17 PM »
Come on baby!  Let it riiiiiiide!  Let it riiiiiiiide!!!



  Ok here's the deal AC if he comes back I win.  If he doesn't you lose.  I'll accept payment through paypal.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #104 on: March 01, 2007, 04:26:14 PM »
You just know he's over at the thinkpoz Flash Fest right now, leading a bitch session about how evil we all are.

And it's true. We are!

Bwhaahahahahahahahhahaha!

MtD

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #105 on: March 01, 2007, 04:29:48 PM »




  MooWaaataahahh!!!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline newt

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #106 on: March 01, 2007, 04:54:08 PM »
I think people should lay off guy who got off his arse and started his own social networking initiative for HIV+ people (albeit on the slowest server in the world).

S+S will clearly have a lot of legal bills, including I guess for a letter or two to NAPWA who publish a POZ AIDS Service Directory.  It's kinda tough defending a 3-letter word that's gone slang regardless of true origin and ownership (plus there's the guy in LA who owns the rights to POZ on caps n t-shirts and the like).

And to my mind the jokey money waving and skulls on suits demeans Sean's gracious reply, and his efforts to build something worthwhile over the last 15 odd years.

- matt (serious but not here either) the newt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #107 on: March 01, 2007, 04:59:47 PM »
And to my mind the jokey money waving and skulls on suits demeans Sean's gracious reply, and his efforts to build something worthwhile over the last 15 odd years.

Yup. You're right Matt. What were we thinking?

MtD
(Who hangs his head in shame)

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #108 on: March 01, 2007, 05:05:08 PM »


  I feel like my hand was just slapped with a ruler by the teacher :-[.


  I will go stand in the corner now :(.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #109 on: March 01, 2007, 05:05:53 PM »
I think people should lay off guy who got off his arse and started his own social networking initiative for HIV+ people (albeit on the slowest server in the world).

S+S will clearly have a lot of legal bills, including I guess for a letter or two to NAPWA who publish a POZ AIDS Service Directory.  It's kinda tough defending a 3-letter word that's gone slang regardless of true origin and ownership (plus there's the guy in LA who owns the rights to POZ on caps n t-shirts and the like).

And to my mind the jokey money waving and skulls on suits demeans Sean's gracious reply, and his efforts to build something worthwhile over the last 15 odd years.

- matt (serious but not here either) the newt


I think the "I love porn thread" shot that out of the air MONTHS ago!  He knows what this place is like.  And its why he created it.  Free to be who we are.  And I APPLAUD him for it.

And it is great that he is doing something.  But it is a shame he has to invite such DRAMA about his situation.  Thats what I dont like.  I can respect someone and still not like what they do sometimes. 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 05:08:03 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #110 on: March 01, 2007, 05:06:46 PM »
And to my mind the jokey money waving and skulls on suits demeans Sean's gracious reply, and his efforts to build something worthwhile over the last 15 odd years.

Yup. You're right Matt. What were we thinking?

MtD
(Who hangs his head in shame)

I know I was thinking it was funny.  And being the chuckle monkey that I am, I always will go for a laugh.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #111 on: March 01, 2007, 05:08:30 PM »
Quote
I will go stand in the corner now .

and no playing with yourself while you're there either MISTER!

Seriously, perhaps Ray has decided he shouldn't stay here due to the possible conflict he may be facing.
In the few times I've been in his chatroom, he's never bashed AM.
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #112 on: March 01, 2007, 05:11:59 PM »
I know I was thinking it was funny.  And being the chuckle monkey that I am, I always will go for a laugh.

Well now you know better. Say thank you to Newt for correcting you.

MtD

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #113 on: March 01, 2007, 05:16:23 PM »
Thank you Newt.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #114 on: March 01, 2007, 05:20:50 PM »

  Not to be done by AC...

  I also apologize Newt


 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #115 on: March 01, 2007, 05:25:46 PM »
That's better boys. Now run along and play. There's a nice dirty google search thread in Orf Torpic that should keep you out of trouble.

MtD

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #116 on: March 01, 2007, 05:26:18 PM »
That's better boys. Now run along and play. There's a nice dirty google search thread in Orf Torpic that should keep you out of trouble.

MtD

Squidding on over there now!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #117 on: March 01, 2007, 05:26:28 PM »
That's better boys. Now run along and play. There's a nice dirty google search thread in Orf Torpic that should keep you out of trouble.

MtD

I wonder if they still deserve some thermometer punishment.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #118 on: March 02, 2007, 08:28:06 PM »
I am surprised no one has mentioned ICANN yet (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers)

in cases of domain name disputes, they are the officiating body

they are highly intelligent geeks who can see through BS and apply common sense as needed.

For example, I once worked for a shop in Ft Lauderdale name Wicked Leather, who owned WickedLeather.com. They thought they could bully Wicked Leathers, in London, who owned wickedleathers.com into yielding up their name.

They tried for many years and threw a hell of a lot of money into their lawyers' pockets, and they got nowhere. The brains at ICANN can tell what is reasonable and what is infringement

At the time I was working at Wicked Leather I already owned leatherslings.com and grew fearful that the guys from leathersling.com (singular, not plural) would sue me too, but that fear never materialized. Our sites look very different so there is no mistaking the two.

I guess I should now be worried, having registered MillionAIDSMarch.org as a networking site devoted to just what the name says? That it has been mentioned here? But I think discussing different sites is far different from sending a bot out to datamine someone's database of email addresses; that is wrong. That would be spam, I think.

I say let the lawyers send Cease & Desist orders, until then its so much smoke. And even then, the dispute goes to ICANN, not the regular court system.

I also think the word "poz" definately belongs to the masses, while Poz Mag may have trademarked it as branding their product, if thinkpoz.com looks nothing like poz.com and fills voids that poz.com was not set up for, there is no reason to get panties in a bunch, just as I no longer worry about leathersling.com suing me for taking the plural form.

For ICANN to take a name away from someone it has to be obvious that the person trying to register a name for squating or whatever, like trying to claim johndeer.com or variants of names to draw poor spellers to their site, it has to be pretty obvious that the squatter (or whatever) is trying to profit from someone elses brand.

that is different though from mentioning a site in the OFF TOPIC forum (important little concept there: OFF TOPIC meaning NOT WHAT THEY SET THE SITE UP FOR)

If ThinkPoz becomes a print mag, well then, that is different. Until then, social networking sites are dime a dozen, and if by now Poz.com has not registered poz.everything (.org, .biz, .info .net .us, .uk,. a gazillion other country codes and maybe even someday .xxx) then they clearly, at this time, have no interest in owning those variants. They should though, as domain names are also dime a dozen and their interests would be better served if they do in fact register every 1st level now available. GoDaddy offers batch discounts...

That, I think, may be the bottom line as far as ICANN is concerned. If Poz.com thought thinkpoz.com should have been theirs, they should have registered it already.



Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #119 on: March 02, 2007, 09:22:26 PM »
once there was a store called WAWA... a convenience store like 7-11.  There was a store called HA-HA.. a small familiy owned one store shop that looked nothing like WAWA.  They had to change their name due to copyright infringement.   Sounds excessive yes.

I think most of the issue is having the part of POZ.COM in the address. 

Having that connotates in most peoples minds that it is part of the poz.com org, whether it is or not.

it sounds, on it's face, like it's a subdomain of poz.com, which it isn't.

it's not about the word poz directly, i think.  It's about the placement of poz and .com next to one another.... a trademarked brand.

That site, inadvertantly or 'vertantly' is trying to trade on this.  It's not about 'should we support any hiv educational effort'.    remove the juxtoposition of having poz.com in the address and, I think, you remove the problem.

Again, I don't think it's about the word poz by itself.

my thoughts and that is all. 

Bailey (who does research copyright and trademark law on occasion)


Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #120 on: March 02, 2007, 09:34:16 PM »
let poz.com register all the names they feel belong to them, otherwise ICANN will likely tell them to STFU
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #121 on: March 02, 2007, 10:35:42 PM »
let poz.com sue these sites first!

http://www.poz.ca/

http://www.poz.info/

http://www.poz.us/

http://www.poz.org/

http://www.poz.biz/

http://www.poz.it/

I'm sure I could go on and on and on

needless to say, until Poz Mag secures all these domains, they have absolutely no standing to sue thinkpoz.com

 :D
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #122 on: March 02, 2007, 10:44:34 PM »
Quote
let poz.com sue these sites first!
http://www.poz.ca/
http://www.poz.info/
http://www.poz.us/
http://www.poz.org/
http://www.poz.biz/
http://www.poz.it/

I do respect your thoughts, but when you bring up those sites, you are talking about apples and oranges.  "Poz" will be used in many websites.  That's okay.  Using the version of poz.com as part of your web address is not.

This is simple copyright and trademark law.  I'm on neither side, but legally, an addy ending in poz.com gives sufficient reason to believe they are affiliated, especially when discussing the same issue.  It creates confusion in some peoples minds.

That is what copyrights and trademarks are truly intended to protect.   And Ccann, isn't so apt to dismiss cases when there is basis. 

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #123 on: March 02, 2007, 10:51:27 PM »
copyrights and trademarks entered uncharted waters with the advent of the web.

if you check those links, they are all active, use the word POZ as the ONLY word in the 2nd level, ergo if Poz.com wants to sue anyone they MUST start with these live sites.
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #124 on: March 02, 2007, 11:25:26 PM »
poz.com was first registered Feb 20 1996

poz.net has been alive since March 31, 1997, owned by someone entirely different

why haven't poz.com lawyers issue cease and desist?? because they know it'll go nowhere!!

just do a whois lookup and see for yourself!

Patrick (who has owned and operated many many domains)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 11:28:05 PM by twofires »
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #125 on: March 02, 2007, 11:35:05 PM »
also, if poz.com feels as if someone is stealing their idea of a forum or the format of their forum, bear in mind SMF 1.1.2 is FREEWARE!!

open source, not paid for...its not as if they spent any money on their own coders and now are being ripped off for their efforts

just scroll way down and see Powered by SMF 1.1.2 and then google it:

Simple Machines - Home of SMF: Free PHP and MySQL forum software
SMF 1.1.2 Released: Simple Machines is proud to announce the release of SMF 1.1.2. Since the release of SMF 1.1 a number of bugs have bee. ...
www.simplemachines.org/ - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

http://www.google.com/search?q=SMF+1.1.2&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #126 on: March 02, 2007, 11:41:32 PM »
you are very argumentative.

To give you an example.

If cokacola.com has a website advertising their product, they would likely feel infringed if somebody used that exact wording in their website address like:  soda.cokacola.com

It creates distraction from their product and confusion... and legitimately so.

Cola.com doesn't
coka.com doesn't
coke.com does
shisznit.coke.com does

I don't understand why you fail to see this.  

copyrights are well charted in this day an age... after all, the web has been around for um.. 20 years or so... maybe you missed that.

They haven't issued cease and desist orders because, till now, nobody has tried to mimic the poz.com name which is a BRAND.

I beleive that if the website was named pozthink.com, there would be no issue at all.  But because it contains the brandname of thinkPOZ.COM, it is infringement on 15+ years of intelluctual property which does have value.

I'm still not sure if you are arguing against trademarks or for letting anybody use any name for their website which trades on an established name.

If you are against trademarks in general, well, that is antibusiness and doesn't support the economy.

If you are not against someone trading on an established name, that is wrong and against the economy.

answer the question of thinkpoz.com versus pozthink.com.

I'm sure you are smart enough to see the difference and implications of each.

..and about the smf forums....

that has completely zero to do with this.

it's a false argument to bring up distraction from your original point lacking any inherent value or thought.





« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 11:43:16 PM by DingoBoi »

Offline DavidinCA92284

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #127 on: March 02, 2007, 11:56:13 PM »
IMHO "Poz" has been used for years as a common knowledge slang word.  For instance, it can be found in the Urban Dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poz
that has 4 definitions for Poz - some not relating to being HIV+.  The question is whether common use means that it can not be "owned", or that the word can be owned, but not every context it's used in.  For instance, if the website was PozForever.com or AStateofPoz.com does that detract from Poz.com?  

But there has already been the controversy of using a word in the wrong context - such as "Olympics" . . . which is "owned" by the IOC and was able to force the Gay Olympics to change their name to Gay Games.   The IOC has allowed others to continue to use the word "Olympics" as part of their name.  One solution is to get "permission" to use the Poz designation in the name, and give a portion of "proceeds" if ever materialized to the "Poz" owners.

But the Internet might be a special case.  It's my understanding that domain names are only that - domain names.  In reality, each website is a designated set of numbers connected to a server somewhere.  The Domain Name is a convenient way to remember a site, rather than using those set of numbers.   There was a time in the beginning of the Internet when folks held the 'rights' to certain Domain Names and companies that wanted to use those domain names bought them from the individuals that owned them.   I suppose one can buy up all the Poz.com variations they can think of and then try and sell 'em all to PozMagazine.

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #128 on: March 03, 2007, 12:02:17 AM »
arguementative? not....

>If cokacola.com has a website advertising their product, they would likely feel infringed if somebody used that exact wording in their website address like:  soda.cokacola.com

I accept that you are unfamiliar with primary, secondary and tertiary levels in domain names.

truly, only cokacola.com would be able to create soda.cokacola.com

do your own whois lookups and see how long all the other POZ.whatever sites have been around and are still active

the source of the free program has everything to do with the issue: it was NOT created by the poz.com people, ergo poz.com has no right to refuse other sites using the exact same program that is in use here.

>They haven't issued cease and desist orders because, till now, nobody has tried to mimic the poz.com name which is a BRAND.

answer me this then: why hasn't poz.com sued poz.net and force them offline, hhhmmmm??

or poz.ca? poz.it? poz.info? poz.biz? these certainly sound more like brand name violations than thinkpoz.com

I have been registering domains since 1993. I do know a thing or two about how the internets work. and if you think I'm an idiot for using the plural, well sit yourself down because there ARE more than one World Wide Web's out there

>it's a false argument to bring up distraction from your original point lacking any inherent value or thought.

You are seriously twisting stuff now dude, as well as directly insulting me.
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #129 on: March 03, 2007, 12:05:12 AM »
> I suppose one can buy up all the Poz.com variations they can think of and then try and sell 'em all to PozMagazine.

http://www.poz.us is for sale, why doesn't poz.com snatch it up already? or sue them and get it for free??

they either don't really care, or else they have no clue whats going on out there and how many other poz sites are around!

« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 12:21:20 AM by twofires »
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #130 on: March 03, 2007, 12:29:20 AM »
Hi Ray,

I find it completely outrageous that POZ magazine is wasting money on lawyers and threatening you.   Just goes to show you what a bunch of corporate hacks they are.   I can't see them winning this battle unless they bombard you with legal issues.  

Personally, I was very impressed with your site and I think you've done an amazing job with it.   I haven't had time to create my completed profile on there yet; however, I fully intend to.   I'd encourage everyone to sign up and see just how intricate and unique your site is.  

I've NEVER been impressed with Poz magazine and it's riddled with advertisements for every damn HIV drug.   I think they should change their magazine name to HIVDRUGS R US.   That publication would whore themselves out to the highest bidder for the sake of the almighty dollar every time.    I have two friends who did features in the magazine with their stories which were edited down to practically nothing resembling what they wrote.   Probably, they need the print space for more drug ads.  

Your site is 100% free!   Are you going to keep it that way?   There are a TON of other lousy dating/ social sites that falsely advertise to be free and then charge you to send an email.   Don't we as POZ people have enough expenses?   I for one think so and I refuse to pay a dime for any of those sites.   Most of those sites do have corporate garbage and advertising and I personally don't want to bombarded with false ads depicting models climbing Mount Everest for Reyataz every time I try to log on to a site.

Ray, as you know I have a site on Myspace which is dedicated to people with HIV and have a number of connections to help advertise your site including now over 300 people in a group I moderate.   If you can assure me that you won't charge people for the site later on I will gladly help you promote it.  

One thing is clear to me.  You have done an outstanding job on the creation of your site.   I do believe many people are worried because it is pretty spectacular.   They've good reason to worry because your site is a work of art and some of the others are just complete crap.   I do believe there are other sites with ''POZ" in the title.   Have any of those sites been threatened with litigation from Poz magazine?

This is frankly very disturbing to me that POZ magazine would stoop to threats of litigation blowing money on a wasted cause and it's rather hypocritical.   That publication sold it's soul down the river years ago.   I would hope you don't do that.   I say fight em tooth and nail and tell em to go straight to Hell.

Your site doesn't compete with Poz Magazine or this site at all.   My group is not in a competition with this group and neither are the others.   Don't back down to these threats.   I happen to like this site very much so far and the people here have been great and I've learned a lot.   Being a moderator of a much smaller group it gives me a place to come and vent my own personal frustrations or find resources I need.    I wanted to create a site like yours that is much like Myspace where people can customize their pages and have an organized system like these forums.   I didn't have the ingenuity or know how, but I certainly don't see your site as infringing on their trademark.  

This has really pissed me off.   So does Poz magazine feel they own all of us too?   I'm now considering adding that into my own group and they can sue my white ass too!

You know I was going to do a story for HIVSTOPSWITHME.org.    Well, I was in contact with whichever idiot there and found out they were paying for advertising on Myspace.   Their people weren't even aware they could start a group on Myspace for free that would certainly gain more attention then just random ads no one will read.   And somehow that guy is getting paid the big bucks for his brilliance?   Couldn't that money have been used more wisely?    Anyways, they wanted to rush me on my story and I'd asked for a bit more time.   They got all impatient and frankly I was done with them after the attitude I got from their contact guy.  

This is why I don't do any work for non profit groups anymore.   It's all about the money and people with good intentions loose their integrity and become apathetic.  

Those people threatening you really have lost all perspective and this is beyond petty.  I think their jealous and worried because the lot of em don't have your intelligence or creative abilities.   I don't know if it was just you who created your site or you have a team, but it's truly something special.   I'll admit I'm impressed.

I don't pay much attention in the who's who of the HIV world.   But I don't like it when someone who's done a great job is threatened and trampled on by a bunch of frauds who don't have any integrity left.

Have you received any legal paperwork or just the phone threats?   Personally, I might consider printing out those public documents for 155 million people to read on MYSPACE.   And, I have more than one contact now on there.    If they feel they can shut your site down based on a bullshit trademark I say we share that public information with the world.   This site has just over 5000 members and Poz Magazine has a monopoly on a junk publication that's already on shaky ground.   I could see your site gaining corporate sponsorship very easily and they are clearly worried they could loose a lot of money.    Frankly, I'd like to see all the petty bickering stopped.

If the people at Poz Magazine feel they also have a monopoly on all of us then I say bring it on!   Personally, I feel they owe you an apology and if they had an iota of integrity they'd congratulate you on a superb website which is NO threat to this website or their shoddy magazine.   If they'd spend a little more time focusing on their own lack of creativity and less time worrying about the little guy they might actually produce a magazine worth reading.

While I don't know what all of your intentions are with the website I would encourage others to at least check it out before jumping to conclusions.  

Much Respect,

Wesley



I thought I should add a disclaimer that all of my above commentary is purely my opinion based on what I have read and know.   I would not want to be sued for my opinions and feelings ; )
« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 03:51:00 AM by AustinWesley »
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #131 on: March 03, 2007, 12:29:40 AM »
Quote
I accept that you are unfamiliar with primary, secondary and tertiary levels in domain names.

I am and you are making a false assumption in this statement.

The website name that is being advertised is thinkpoz.com ... not the derivative thinkpoz.me.com which it really is.

Quote
truly, only cokacola.com would be able to create soda.cokacola.com

obviously you are not familiar with which you speak of because thinkpoz.com links to thinkpoz.me.com.

Yah, that's as in POZ.COM  which trades on the poz.com brand name.

poz.net or poz.biz is irrelevant to this particular discussion.

You are still chasing a phantom... nobody cares what forum program they use for a forum.  This is completely irrelivant to any argument whatsoever.

poz.net and the poz.whatever don't trade on the brand name of poz.com and its associated value.

You are still bringing up false arguments that are irrelevant to the discussion, which is if the poz.com name is being infringed upon.

Thank you for your consideration.




Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #132 on: March 03, 2007, 12:40:17 AM »
what have you got against the free market?

why are you so strident about this issue to the point that you are insulting?

so what if thinkpoz directs to a 3rd level of me.com? you still do not convince me you are aware of just who can create a 3rd level name... only the owner of the 2nd level can create a third level

sounds like you have some kind of agenda that is contrary to the free exchange of ideas, and want to see thinkpoz DOA

why is that???

and by the way, ICANN would probably laugh you right out of their offices

>The website name that is being advertised is thinkpoz.com ... not the derivative thinkpoz.me.com which it really is.

now you really are making a fool of yourself and do not understand hosting options



« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 12:46:47 AM by twofires »
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
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Offline Boo Radley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #133 on: March 03, 2007, 01:41:32 AM »
Having that connotates in most peoples minds that it is part of the poz.com org, whether it is or not.

it sounds, on it's face, like it's a subdomain of poz.com, which it isn't.

Regardless of what people wrongly infer, the domains thinkpoz.com and poz.com are totally and undeniably different.   A subdomain of poz.com would be think.poz.com, which obviously isn't thinkpoz.com. 

Poz may be a trademark but poz.com is not nor is it a brand name and S+S has no business dictating to others what their domains can be named. If someone created a domain named pozmagazine.com S+S would have reason to complain.  They have no legitimate reason to contest thinkpoz.com and ICANN would, as twofires suggested, probably tell S+S to go fly a kite, unless thinkpoz.com was obviously attempting to confuse visitors.  Since the two sites are totally different that argument wouldn't float.

Quote
If cokacola.com has a website advertising their product, they would likely feel infringed if somebody used that exact wording in their website address like:  soda.cokacola.com

This example isn't valid because, as twofires said, soda.cokacola.com is a subdomain of cokacola.com and only cokacola.com could create the subdomain. 

This discussion is really academic because we have not verified Ray was even contacted by Poz.  Someone may have claimed to be from Poz but a phone call proves nothing.   Poz or its legal representative should send a letter, preferably by certified mail, to insure the infringing party receives their request.   

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline twofires

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #134 on: March 03, 2007, 01:52:25 AM »
and then throw the damn thing in the trash!!!

(hat tip to my man Boo!)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 01:57:42 AM by twofires »
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2007, 02:59:28 AM »


If we fail to protect our trademark rights, anyone could use it  however they want. Given the multitude of agendas surrounding the  epidemic, that could quickly dilute the POZ brand to a point where it becomes meaningless.  Any pharmaceutical company could use it, for  example.  Those with an agenda dangerous to people with HIV could use it.   
We do not want others to create confusion, intentionally or not, for readers of the magazine or users of our sites who are seeking information from POZ.  I  recognize that the word has become part of the vernacular--something I did not foresee 13 years ago when we named the magazine--and is part of the community.  But when a company doing work similar to POZ  (ie: information and connection to the HIV community) and using our trademarked name, it is confusing to people and it's trading on a brand we built and are obligated to protect.
We are not singling out any one website nor are we interested in closing anyone down. We simply ask that our trademark be respected in recognition of 13 years of free services, information and connection we have built for the HIV community. 


I find the statement about "confusion" very patronizing and condescending.   I have no confusion distinguishing a difference between the Poz magazine and it's affiliates and a completely different website that has a totally different name.

While I don't know all the background of your magazine or it's interests I appreciate some of the background information you have given although I think financial interests are the only thing of concern here. 

I also do NOT believe that you even just made that statement about protecting your readers interests of devious pharmaceutical companies.   How much revenue is generated monthly by all of those ads in Poz magazine?   

I have nothing personal against you, but I'm not buying this mumbo jumbo at all.   

Having reviewed thoroughly the site in question I fail to see how there is some devious plot to mislead people and I find some of these statements bordering on slander.

Also, I have NO affiliation with the gentleman who created the site in question, but I am impressed with what he has done.   I fail to see any plot to dis-semenate misinformation or the like.

It's a completely different name and I don't believe this bit about people becoming confused.   

Wesley

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #136 on: March 03, 2007, 03:53:39 AM »
This on goings is none of our business. This is between POZ and the other website. When you pay POZ's bills then you can put in your two cents. This does not have any concern to anyone of us that uses this website.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2007, 04:02:45 AM »
Hey Rod,

I'm entitled to express my feelings as are you in these forums.   If free speech is going to be prevented then I would not be here at all.

I'm glad the moderators have left the topic unlocked and allowed people to share their opinions.   Why is it I am not entitled to join the debate?

Peace!

Wesley

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2007, 04:40:52 AM »
There is nothing to debate. It's between POZ and the other website. How much money POZ makes off advertisements or other means is not a concern of ours. This is not a concern of anyone except POZ and the other website. It's not your concern, my concern or anyone elseís.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2007, 05:01:24 AM »
I'm interested.   I wouldn't really call it a concern.   

I have a profile on the poz site as well and I am also a mentor on there too.   I see no reason why all the sites can't exist.

My opinion was the lame response from the Poz representative pushing scare tactics and the idea of confusion was not truthful.

As a person with HIV I want as many sites available to me and everyone as possible, not just one that's heavily influenced by various drug companies.

It's a free market economy.   I think a little competition is healthy; however I don't feel the two sites are competing.   

The other site is quite unique and some prefer or feel comfortable in different environments.   I believe that the issue has nothing to do with protecting us from dangerous advertisers and everything to do with money!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #140 on: March 03, 2007, 05:24:25 AM »
Not truthful to whom? You? It's truthful in their eyes and that's all that matters. Have a little respect for a company that let's you use their site for FREE. If this were a pay site then your concerns would matter and then you may have a reason to interject your thoughts in their operational and financial business matters. 

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #141 on: March 03, 2007, 05:33:47 AM »
Who's they Rod?   I am referring to one post only by one individual.

If you are saying because this site is Free I'm not entitled to enter into the topic I would respectfully disagree with you.   

The reason this group does thrive is because it's free and people are allowed to free speech.   The minute either of those is breached it would likely cease to exist.

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Cliff

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #142 on: March 03, 2007, 05:37:56 AM »
1.  While the other website name might be unique (only that it added a word in front of a trademarked name), it is still about providing services to people with HIV.  That is still close enough to cause confusion in the market place.

2.  I don't think Sean used the word confusion to be condescending or rude.  That's the law.  Infringement of a trademark must be attributed to causing confusion among customers.  It's a broad term and just the fact that the two websites (while different) deal with the same subject may give the appearance of causing confusion.  For example, if I start a website thinkapple.com to sale my own version of an MP3 player, I would violate Apple's trademark.  Yes, my website would be different and yes I would be selling my own product version which would look nothing like the Ipod, and yes consumers would probably be smart enough to know my website isn't a true apple website, but at the end of the day, I'm fairly certain the courts would rule that I am violating Apple's trademark.  Or if I start the website "letsvogue.com" for folks serious about fashion, I'm sure I would be violating Vogue magazines trademark, even if the website looked completely different and I had another word in front of vogue.

3.  Austin, you are being contradictory.  You complain that you don't like Poz magazine because it's full of advertising, (not sure how you justify using poz's website considering the same is also true here), yet in the very next paragraph you state that you will not pay a dime for a website.  How do you think these websites are going to stay in business?  They have to get money from somewhere and if you (and most other HIVers) won't or can't afford to pay then what other options does that leave them?  Thinkpoz.com may not charge now, but unless he is going to get money from drug companies (the only ones interested in HIVers), the government (unlikely to be enough), or use his own funds indefinitely, he will start charging.

4.  ICANN may be the arbitrator of what happens to domain names, but judgment over trademarks (and the proper place for litigating trademark disputes) is the judicial system.  If the courts rule this is a violation of a trademark, then it is, irrespective of what ICANN says or does.  

5.  Protecting your trademark is not a violation of free market principles.  Actually, a free market needs trademark (and rigorous defenses of them) in order for the markets to remain free and efficient.  If people can infringe on your brand name and awareness, simply by throwing another word in front of your brand name, then there would tons of confusion in the market place and brand name (which is nothing more than a reputation) would be diminished.

I doubt they will do anything to Ray.  They are probably just trying to ask him politely to change his website.  But since he said he is an attorney and has dealt with trademark cases, (so presumably he should have expected all of this), I'm not too worried about Ray.  I think he can hold his own, if they decide to pursue this matter further.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #143 on: March 03, 2007, 06:15:04 AM »
1.  While the other website name might be unique (only that it added a word in front of a trademarked name), it is still about providing services to people with HIV.  That is still close enough to cause confusion in the market place.

2.  I don't think Sean used the word confusion to be condescending or rude.  That's the law.  Infringement of a trademark must be attributed to causing confusion among customers.  It's a broad term and just the fact that the two websites (while different) deal with the same subject may give the appearance of causing confusion.  For example, if I start a website thinkapple.com to sale my own version of an MP3 player, I would violate Apple's trademark.  Yes, my website would be different and yes I would be selling my own product version which would look nothing like the Ipod, and yes consumers would probably be smart enough to know my website isn't a true apple website, but at the end of the day, I'm fairly certain the courts would rule that I am violating Apple's trademark.  Or if I start the website "letsvogue.com" for folks serious about fashion, I'm sure I would be violating Vogue magazines trademark, even if the website looked completely different and I had another word in front of vogue.

3.  Austin, you are being contradictory.  You complain that you don't like Poz magazine because it's full of advertising, (not sure how you justify using poz's website considering the same is also true here), yet in the very next paragraph you state that you will not pay a dime for a website.  How do you think these websites are going to stay in business?  They have to get money from somewhere and if you (and most other HIVers) won't or can't afford to pay then what other options does that leave them?  Thinkpoz.com may not charge now, but unless he is going to get money from drug companies (the only ones interested in HIVers), the government (unlikely to be enough), or use his own funds indefinitely, he will start charging.

4.  ICANN may be the arbitrator of what happens to domain names, but judgment over trademarks (and the proper place for litigating trademark disputes) is the judicial system.  If the courts rule this is a violation of a trademark, then it is, irrespective of what ICANN says or does.  

5.  Protecting your trademark is not a violation of free market principles. Actually, a free market needs trademark (and rigorous defenses of them) in order for the markets to remain free and efficient.  If people can infringe on your brand name and awareness, simply by throwing another word in front of your brand name, then there would tons of confusion in the market place and brand name (which is nothing more than a reputation) would be diminished.

I doubt they will do anything to Ray.  They are probably just trying to ask him politely to change his website.  But since he said he is an attorney and has dealt with trademark cases, (so presumably he should have expected all of this), I'm not too worried about Ray.  I think he can hold his own, if they decide to pursue this matter further.

Hey Cliff,

I didn't contradict myself.   I posed that question to Ray so I am curious to hear his answer.   I don't believe that Poz magazine can do anything about a domain name.   The magazine and website are two completely different concepts.   I don't hear anything about a ThinkPoz magazine, but that would be interesting too.  The websites are radically different.   Others have brought up numerous other examples as well.

Also, I was merely referring to one individual response which I do feel was poorly written and inaccurate and definitely slanted using scare tactics.   I've nothing personal against any of the other individuals or him even though I don't personally care for the magazine.

Have you looked at the site?   It's nothing like this at all.   I appreciate your examples with some of the scenarios you've given.

I don't believe a trademark lawsuit benefits anyone here.   I think the money would be better spent on improving some of Poz's other sites which are outdated and are falling behind technological advances which appeal to consumers.   For instance, this site has no chat feature, a common complaint.   Maybe instead of suing over alleged "confusion" it would be wise to improve an already good site.

Wesley



Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #144 on: March 03, 2007, 07:40:44 AM »
omgi'msoconfused
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline texasguy

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #145 on: March 03, 2007, 02:36:57 PM »
Lots of things to think about here.  Clearly this is a hot button issue for some.  I've made it clear to several forum members that I'm squarely on thinkpoz.com side on this one.  Obviously some people will take it personally and I understand why.  We share a lot of our personal lives and feelings in these forums, and for many people this place on the Internet becomes their support group and is like a family.  I suspect a lot of people share more here then with any other friends or their own family.  And most people will defend their family no matter what.  And that's a good thing in most cases and I respect it. 

I think the best thing would be for POZ to just let this go, let this tempest diminish, and we all learn something in the process.  Primarily that for HIV positive people, "poz" is not a trademark, it is our lives and we are quite sensitive about it on many levels.  Their business model, circulation numbers, ad revenues, and all the rest that goes into the publishing business are important to them.  We all understand that.  But they also need to remember that this website is quite unique and stands on its own merits, and I can't imagine anything remotely threatening its success.  We're not selling sodas or burgers here.  This website changes peoples lives in many ways.  It would be terribly cynical to think that the investors and staff of POZ have bad intentions.  I certainly don't think so.  But they are human and perhaps this was a mistake.

The people that participate on a website are what makes it, and this group here represents the best of the lot.  I don't always agree with some, but there is no denying the quality and character of the people that post here.  It's important that we're having this conversation.  It was bound to come up at some point.  Let's just not let it get personal.  POZ is not an evil corporate thug, and I'm sure Ray is a nice guy.  I have no reasons to think otherwise of either.  Maybe I'm naive, but I like to give people and even (some) corporations the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise.
8/12/2008    102        402      26.8
                    VL         CD4     CD4%
7/11/2008   Started Atripla and Lisinopril for high blood pressure
6/8     654000(?) 347     20.4
5/08   42100       287      20.5
11/07 52930       438     27.3
5/07   48800       356     22.2
2/07   89000       316     23.2
7/06   51700       459     25.3
2/06   346000     386     20.3
           VL          CD4     CD4%
Poz Antibody Test January 2006
Seroconversion December 2005
Exposure November 2005

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #146 on: March 03, 2007, 05:55:13 PM »
I again call out Ray who stirred up this shit storm.  Poz sent out a letter they probably have sent out hundreds of times.  They never said they were filing against Ray.  He is getting absolutely what he wanted out of this, which is to cause confusion and piss people off.

I'm done with this discussion, we have no control or say over what either party does anyway so no sense in arguing about it.  Ray, ill keep an eye out for ya.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #147 on: March 03, 2007, 06:36:59 PM »
I think the best thing would be for POZ to just let this go, let this tempest diminish, and we all learn something in the process.  Primarily that for HIV positive people, "poz" is not a trademark, it is our lives and we are quite sensitive about it on many levels. 

I'd agree with this statement.   For all those so overly paranoid it's essentially a dating/social site.   It's free of charge.

While I commend the efforts on this site, I certainly think the other was necessary.   If I had to search for a partner here I've got a real pick of the litter, literally!   Hmm, there are dolls, parrots, and dogs.......Not exactly what I'd be looking for as a future partner.

So, I read the real warm welcome Ray was given intially in the other thread pointed out.   NICE!

Nobody has even bothered to look at the site from what I can determine other than a few rational people.   I'm certainly glad there is a new social site free of charge.

I will remain here as well because there've been great people here who've helped me out and this site is more dedicated to medical issues which we all have in common.   

There's no relation in the 2 sites whatsoever and the name is completely different.   I really don't get the panic and paranoia, but I guess to each their own!

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline iMec

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #148 on: March 03, 2007, 09:44:02 PM »
Anyone who claims to have invented the term poz is just demonstrating how clearly insane they are. Not to mention arrogant. I might suggest that anyone who claims to have "invented" this word has a very limited history of life experience, and also is completely American-centric to think that one person, an American invented this.

Thanks, those who have aired on the side of Poz Magazine has proved how absolutely crazy. I've shared this with top HIV activists in Canada and the reaction has been the same, complete shock and disbelief.

Once again, I highlight the point. This is not about a word. This is petty power plays by people who have completely lost sight of whey they are here.

I'm actually appalled and am so thankfull that we don't have to deal with such bull**** in Canada. As bad is it may get here for infighting
it is NOWWHERE to the degree displayed by those who clearly have some sort of delusional mental illness.

Oh ya, this is the point where people who don't know me try to discredit me with silly cowardly internet slander
hiding behind a screen name.

Go for it, you'll just prove my point.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #149 on: March 03, 2007, 10:29:07 PM »
It was in bad taste to come on here and stir up shit about an issue that was between ray and POZ.com, causing unnecessary dram among board member where the prime meaning for existence is SUPPORT not DRAMA.  In fact, I'm REALLY REALLY  tired of the dram on here of late (cue: CSI).  He should have kept his discussions personal with POZ.  And now we've been spammed once again by another disaffected thinkpoz person.  I say, at what point do we just delete these postings.

Imagine the poor sole who logs in here for the first time.  The first time I logged in some poster was threatening suicide, and in 12 hours it turned out to be  fake, and a odd attempt for attention.  It turned me off from posting here for 3 months -- let's CONSIDER THESE TYPES OF SCENARIOS.

As far as thinkpoz... I'm sure it is not malicious, but really how hard is it to change the name to "thinkpositively.com"???  Same thing really... less drama.

I mean, the guy spammed the board for months about his site, but offered NIL about his own personal experience and offered little to the board.  I don't know... I just feel uncomfortable with this ray guy though his aims seem laudable.

It's all rather unfortunate, and now the damage is done.  Like all thing it's the mature WAY such issue are handles, and I see little of that by him.

And now we have iMec posting with incessant condescending posts and personal attacks.  Lovely way to prove our point, some of which I agree with but am put off by your vitriol.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ScooterTrash

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #150 on: March 03, 2007, 10:39:37 PM »
ROFL.. Any publicity is good publicity..

Don't like the drama? Change the channels...

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #151 on: March 03, 2007, 11:14:40 PM »
I've said it before, I'll say it again. My problem with Ray is that he wasn't entirely up-front about this. He carried on like S+S were gonna haul him before a Military Commission, sling him in Gitmo and sew salt in the earth.

All they did was ask him to change his site's name. He made out like it was the end of the earth, when really it's just a small domain name hissyfit.

I'm indifferent to POZ magazine and it's parent company, but I don't really care for Ray carrying on in such a manipulative and less than honest fashion.

MtD

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #152 on: March 04, 2007, 03:17:03 AM »
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... I think we're getting teh Internets equivalent of a hit and run here.  Only with slightly more drama.

How can two members, one of whom hasn't posted here for months, and the other who's new and has merely managed to post two little ranting gems of posts cause this much trouble?  Hmm.

Benj
(Who didn't start the fire.  It was always burning, since the world's been turning.)
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #153 on: March 04, 2007, 03:40:23 AM »
lots of pots calling kettles black up in here~ ;D
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline Cliff

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #154 on: March 04, 2007, 04:00:57 AM »
I've shared this with top HIV activists in Canada and the reaction has been the same, complete shock and disbelief.

I'm actually appalled and am so thankfull that we don't have to deal with such bull**** in Canada.
Oh dear, we've managed to piss off the top HIV activists in Canada.  Damn! Damn! Damn!

Complete shock and disbelief over the number of AIDS deaths worldwide.  I get that.  But complete shock and disbelief over a minor internet domain name spat?   

Cliff

P.S.- Did anyone bother to gage the reaction of the bottom HIV activists in Canada, over this major international incidence of the highest importance to people living with HIV?  My guess is that they simply rode this BIG controversy out.

Offline mjmel

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #155 on: March 04, 2007, 04:21:09 AM »
Anyone who claims to have invented the term poz is just demonstrating how clearly insane they are. Not to mention arrogant. I might suggest that anyone who claims to have "invented" this word has a very limited history of life experience, and also is completely American-centric to think that one person, an American invented this.

Thanks, those who have aired on the side of Poz Magazine has proved how absolutely crazy. I've shared this with top HIV activists in Canada and the reaction has been the same, complete shock and disbelief.

Once again, I highlight the point. This is not about a word. This is petty power plays by people who have completely lost sight of whey they are here.

I'm actually appalled and am so thankfull that we don't have to deal with such bull**** in Canada. As bad is it may get here for infighting
it is NOWWHERE to the degree displayed by those who clearly have some sort of delusional mental illness.

Oh ya, this is the point where people who don't know me try to discredit me with silly cowardly internet slander
hiding behind a screen name.

Go for it, you'll just prove my point.

No one here need discredit you. You have done a fine job on your own.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #156 on: March 04, 2007, 05:35:19 AM »
Shit! Top HIV activists in Canada? I hope they're not backed up by the Belgian Air Force or we're all fucked.

MtD

Offline koi1

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #157 on: March 04, 2007, 10:05:30 AM »
Now yes,

We all come here for support, and yes POZ magazine bought this site as an investment. Most of us who work, work at a place that needs to turn a profit for us to get paid. Even if you work at a gorvernment job you are paid from tax dollars that came from profit.  Now this site is free, but to remain free, they need to rely on money derived from advertisers. Not a sin.

Now you are going to tell me that this Ray character is purely a philanthropist dedicated to bettering the lives of us poor unfortunate saps. PUUUULeeeze. As soon as he gets enough hits on his website he will start selling ad space as well. He would be a fool not to do so. Ain't no sin in that. Everyone has to turn a buck somehow.

However, there is something to be said to starting something completely on your own and not riding on the coattails (or flat out stealing domain and clients) of a very credible entitly as is aidsmeds and its parent company. That part is uncool. Now you are correct in that you have the right to visit whichever site you choose, but so does POZ in protecting its bread and butter. This also allows this site to be free. The last time I checked activism and profits go hand in hand. AARP has a magazine that I suspect sells advertisement space. So this entity should not be criticised for that or for defending themselves as a legitimate business. 

Again when came to this website, all I got from Ray "oops sorry you you got it , come to my website" he offered no support, at all to me here.

That should tell you something, regardless of how wonderful his website is now.

Rob
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 10:31:23 AM by koi1 »
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline bravebuddharich

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #158 on: March 04, 2007, 10:17:46 AM »
It's the words "Poz brand" that bothers me the most. I disapprove of all trademarks. I knew the word "poz" well before I ever heard of the magazine, so that doesn't wash at all. I think this was a personal bullying incident - I've been appalled by the meanness of spirit of so many of the posts in this particular thread. It's made me sad, frustrated, and ticked off, too!!

Offline koi1

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #159 on: March 04, 2007, 10:36:40 AM »
I recall very few actually mean posts on this thread. If merely disagreeing with people is a sign of being mean, than I guess there is no room for respectful debate. If people are just pointing out what this guy essentially did, why is that so mean? He did come here to stir and not state all the facts and get more publicity for his site. Tell me that is admirable.

rob
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #160 on: March 04, 2007, 11:03:13 AM »
Now yes,

We all come here for support, and yes POZ magazine bought this site as an investment. Most of us who work, work at a place that needs to turn a profit for us to get paid. Even if you work at a gorvernment job you are paid from tax dollars that came from profit.  Now this site is free, but to remain free, they need to rely on money derived from advertisers. Not a sin.

Now you are going to tell me that this Ray character is purely a philanthropist dedicated to bettering the lives of us poor unfortunate saps. PUUUULeeeze. As soon as he gets enough hits on his website he will start selling ad space as well. He would be a fool not to do so. Ain't no sin in that. Everyone has to turn a buck somehow.

However, there is something to be said to starting something completely on your own and not riding on the coattails (or flat out stealing domain and clients) of a very credible entitly as is aidsmeds and its parent company. That part is uncool. Now you are correct in that you have the right to visit whichever site you choose, but so does POZ in protecting its bread and butter. This also allows this site to be free. The last time I checked activism and profits go hand in hand. AARP has a magazine that I suspect sells advertisement space. So this entity should not be criticised for that or for defending themselves as a legitimate business. 

Again when came to this website, all I got from Ray "oops sorry you you got it , come to my website" he offered no support, at all to me here.

That should tell you something, regardless of how wonderful his website is now.

Rob

The award for "Most Sensible Post In This Thread That Cogently Went To The Crux Of The Issue" goes to this one right here.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #161 on: March 04, 2007, 11:33:27 AM »
yup, the "coat tails" thing cleared this entire broohaha up for me

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #162 on: March 04, 2007, 01:38:07 PM »
It was in bad taste to come on here and stir up shit about an issue that was between ray and POZ.com, causing unnecessary dram among board member where the prime meaning for existence is SUPPORT not DRAMA.  In fact, I'm REALLY REALLY  tired of the dram on here of late (cue: CSI).  He should have kept his discussions personal with POZ.  And now we've been spammed once again by another disaffected thinkpoz person.  I say, at what point do we just delete these postings.

Imagine the poor sole who logs in here for the first time.  The first time I logged in some poster was threatening suicide, and in 12 hours it turned out to be  fake, and a odd attempt for attention.  It turned me off from posting here for 3 months -- let's CONSIDER THESE TYPES OF SCENARIOS.

As far as thinkpoz... I'm sure it is not malicious, but really how hard is it to change the name to "thinkpositively.com"???  Same thing really... less drama.

I mean, the guy spammed the board for months about his site, but offered NIL about his own personal experience and offered little to the board.  I don't know... I just feel uncomfortable with this ray guy though his aims seem laudable.

It's all rather unfortunate, and now the damage is done.  Like all thing it's the mature WAY such issue are handles, and I see little of that by him.

And now we have iMec posting with incessant condescending posts and personal attacks.  Lovely way to prove our point, some of which I agree with but am put off by your vitriol.

LOL, this site thrives on DRAMA.

I'll admit I've contributed more than my fair share to it too!   

I would argue that another site could easily pop up and have more advanced technical features that appeal to consumers and could be 100% free as well.   So what if Ray does get one or two sponsors for his site.

My complaint is that Poz magazine feels they apparently own all of us with their "trademark".   I don't know if they will start targeting people on gay.com  with names like dirtypozguy or pozman or any number of individuals.

Personally, I think he's above it all and hasn't bothered to come back here to address this further.   Why would he?   

I think this is a good site only because of the large number of members and the moderators. 

As a consumer if something else comes along better with chat options and other features I like come along I'd likely choose to deal with that.   This has nothing to do with Ray's attempts or his site which I like and signed up for.   I'm talking about medical/ health issues etc. which this site covers.

Anyways, I doubt we'll see much from Poz magazine trying to shut down a free dating site cause they OWN POZ and all of us.   I would hope not cause that would be a shame.

I'd hate to think that I only had one company to come to for all my HIV issues.   And let's face it, the poz dating site sucks!

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #163 on: March 04, 2007, 01:52:52 PM »
Ray is the new George Bush.  I think I'll just start blaming him for everything.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #164 on: March 04, 2007, 02:07:58 PM »
Well... I've been around the block for +15 years with HIV and frankly I can't recall seeing the word "POZ" until I saw the magazine at a support group.  And it's impressive that they send people subscriptions who could otherwise NOT afford it.

I may be wrong though... maybe the word was in use before then.  Still considering all the good they've done with their publication over the years (and yes, there once was a time when there was little to no information for us all to read) I do tend to cut them some slack.

I ask again:  What's so hard with changing the name to "thinkpositively"?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #165 on: March 04, 2007, 05:10:59 PM »
Hey Philly,

I actually like your suggestion, but that domain is already taken.   Clearly, Thinkpoz.com wasn't and the magazine should have thought about that ahead of time and should consider other domains if they feel it's a real problem.   

Someone else suggested Thinkpos.com.   That is also taken.

You know I had plugged my own support group here, not fully understanding the rules either.   Ann didn't jump all over me for it, but simply moved it to another appropriate forum.   A few people questioned my motives too.   I just thought it would be nice if people had an alternative and wanted to welcome them.   It's the 2nd group I've started on Myspace and I don't make a dime out of it.   Although I have had advertisers and spammers pop in to promote every cause under the sun including a few HIV drug companies.   I delete them.   If someone offered to pay me for a banner I might accept.   

I understand the protective nature when you have a group of people.   I'm very protective of my little group and I'm not trying to compete with this site at all even though mine is more of an HIV discussion group and not a dating site.   I'm not sure if the name I came up with is infringing on anyone's "trademark" and frankly I don't care.   I know people have found support and friendship and that's all that matters.   For a long time I kept the group private, now it's open to the public.   I spent a LOT of personal time and effort doing what I did and I can relate to this situation.

Where the problem lies for me is the idea that POZ magazine feels it can bully everyone else because of their power.    I've not heard anything from anyone there, but the one representative.    To me it seems as though they have become the Kremlin of the HIV/AIDS community.

So it remains to be seen if they will continue on that path or take the higher road.   My recommendation would be they let it go!

Just my thoughts!

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Ann

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #166 on: March 04, 2007, 08:18:28 PM »
You know, I don't get why people are assuming that POZ is suing anyone or bullying anyone. All they did was ask Ray if he would consider changing the name of his site and offer him a subscription to the magazine.

Tempest in a teacup... ::)

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline thunter34

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #167 on: March 04, 2007, 08:25:22 PM »
Tempest in a teacup... ::)


Honestly suprised here that this thread is still going on.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #168 on: March 04, 2007, 10:11:30 PM »
You know, I don't get why people are assuming that POZ is suing anyone or bullying anyone. All they did was ask Ray if he would consider changing the name of his site and offer him a subscription to the magazine.

Tempest in a teacup... ::)

Ann


A-FUCKING-MEN!  Thank you Ann.  I've tried to shout that at every turn!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #169 on: March 04, 2007, 11:07:53 PM »
Hmm, maybe it's an evil conspiracy created by Jerry Bruckheimer?   What's next CSI:POZCITY?

Ann,

Thanks for your point of view.   I guess I was most disturbed by this Mr. Scrub's commentary earlier on about defending a "trademark".    That was the point that bothered me.   

If you can believe it when I wrote my blog about how I got HIV I was threatened with litigation.   Because one of the people left unamed in my story felt it was damaging to her singing career and allegedly someone figured out who she was.   Anyways, was a stress headache.  I left the story as it was and ultimately her case was so ridiculous I guess she couldn't even get on People's Court.

Frankly, I think if someone from Poz magazine would just come out and say they aren't suing him I think the topic would drop off.

Wesley

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #170 on: March 05, 2007, 12:11:17 AM »
You know, I don't get why people are assuming that POZ is suing anyone or bullying anyone. All they did was ask Ray if he would consider changing the name of his site and offer him a subscription to the magazine.

Tempest in a teacup... ::)

Ann


Indeed... but you know Ann.  Folks like to invent things in their heads and that drama factor is so ingrained.  I just don't see it as that big of a deal.  Everyone is linking this to Karl Rove motives.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #171 on: March 05, 2007, 12:32:17 AM »
Thanks for your point of view.   I guess I was most disturbed by this Mr. Scrub's commentary earlier on about defending a "trademark".    That was the point that bothered me.   

If you can believe it when I wrote my blog about how I got HIV I was threatened with litigation.   Because one of the people left unamed in my story felt it was damaging to her singing career and allegedly someone figured out who she was.   Anyways, was a stress headache.  I left the story as it was and ultimately her case was so ridiculous I guess she couldn't even get on People's Court.

Frankly, I think if someone from Poz magazine would just come out and say they aren't suing him I think the topic would drop off.


But they have Wesley! It's been explained that this isn't a proceeding before the High Court, just a simple request from Poz that Ray change the name of his site. It's also been explained that Poz magazine and it's parent company have an obligation to protect their trademark.

Ray just has to deal with it. Poz magazine got there first and has a legal right to use the term "poz.com" for running a magazine and a website about HIV/AIDS. Ray's even been allowed to recruit members from here to his show.

This would all go away if Ray stopped being such a prima donna (and a deceitful one at that) by simply changing the name of his damn site and saying "Yes thankyou. I would like a free subscription to your magazine. You're very kind to offer it."

Given that Ray is an attorney he should have known better in the first place.

MtD

Offline ScooterTrash

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #172 on: March 05, 2007, 01:33:14 AM »
Quote
Given that Ray is an attorney he should have known better in the first place.

Perhaps he did... Controversy spawns interest. I believe thinkpos new membership doubled this week.
(Around 200 new users.)

You all must realize that every time a new message is left in this thread, another person opens it?

IMHO, if no one ever replied to Rays thread, there would have been no "drama". But as long as this thread continues, the very people who are complaining about the drama are the ones who are perpetuating it.

But please don't stop. It's quite entertaining....

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #173 on: March 05, 2007, 04:35:31 AM »
Babe,

Matty the Damned couldn't give a rat's arse if the drama dies down or not. It's an issue to prattle on about and that's what forums are all about.

Similarly I couldn't give a shit if people do or don't join Ray's site. People are free do whatever they see fit in such matters.

Lastly, I am not the slightest bit concerned if Ray does end up in a legal cat-fight with the crowd who run S+S and gets rubbed out. The internets will continue without him.

Fondles,

MtD

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #174 on: March 05, 2007, 09:47:01 AM »
Babe,

Matty the Damned couldn't give a rat's arse if the drama dies down or not. It's an issue to prattle on about and that's what forums are all about.

Similarly I couldn't give a shit if people do or don't join Ray's site. People are free do whatever they see fit in such matters.

Lastly, I am not the slightest bit concerned if Ray does end up in a legal cat-fight with the crowd who run S+S and gets rubbed out. The internets will continue without him.

Fondles,

MtD

I'm with Matty on this one. 
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ScooterTrash

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #175 on: March 05, 2007, 09:52:39 AM »
I'm with Matty on this one. 
It's only 7AM here and I've already been fondled twice....  :)
Maybe this will be a good day.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #176 on: March 05, 2007, 06:14:27 PM »
<<Perhaps he did... Controversy spawns interest. I believe thinkpos new membership doubled this week.
(Around 200 new users.)>>

Am I totally cynical in that I thought the exact same thing? It's terrific marketing to paint yourself as an underdog. Negative press simply gets WAY more attention than positive press.

When I was doing the Condom Man campaign in the Halcyon days of 1993, I recall trying to garner media/press for the concept (there was absolutely NO HIv prevention work being done in Atlanta at the time... and precious little since).

An event that we were supposed to attend was hosted by a certain famous drag personality. After spending considerable time and resources getting the people in place, putting on costumes, procuring thousands of condoms, we were told that the drag personality had changed her mind, and would not be sharing the stage. Apparently the quality of Atlanta's powdery mood enhancers were not up to their usual specs that evening.

After feeling betrayed, frustrated, angry, I then decided to use it to the best PR advantage. Meaning, Condom Man got up on the stage anyhow, and grabbed the mike, and gave my ten second spiel about taking care of ourselves and each other and all that junk. Security for the enraged drag personality then tackled me (remember, I am wearing a superhero costume, complete with mask, cape, yellow gogo boots and a codpiece that could put out an eye) and dragged me from the stage.

Which I had absolutely counted on happening.

The next week, in two of the three gay rags available in town, there were letters to the editor about how rotten Condom Man had been treated, and how circuit parties and events, donating all that money to AIDS services, refuse to acknowledge the unprotected sex prevalent at their events. And are very squeamish about even promoting condoms and safer sex.

Were I allowed the original game plan, which was to deliver the same ten second spiel, hand out some condoms, then walk away, NO ONE would have noticed. Anything I said would have gotten totally lost and dismissed by the crowd as lip service. But man, throw me on the ground and rough me up a little, and suddenly, albeit briefly, people were talking about safer sex and the hypocrisy of the community.

It was spur of the moment, but from a PR standpoint, it was brilliant. I keep waiting for similarly brilliant flashes. Apparently, they are few and far between for some of us. But wow, that was one.

I have absolutely no opinion on the particulars of this thread. But I do see a terrific opportunity when someone takes advantage of it, intentionally or otherwise. And this thread is one of those moments. Kudos at least for that.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline livingpositively

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #177 on: March 06, 2007, 07:41:20 PM »
While I am not a copyright/trademark attorney, I have had to deal with the "sticky" situations that surround trademarking.

POZ magazine may have trademarked the "word" POZ, but they can't trademark the three letters and prevent them from ever being used in that successive order.  The website in question is "thinkpoz" - run together, all one word - a new and different word.  It, therefore would not be a copyright or trademark infringement, from my understanding.

Case in point, my employer has several software package called Advantage_______   The only way we could trademark these names was to run the Advantage and the following word together into one word.  We couldn't trademark the word Advantage.
4/6/07   CD4 450, % 23, No VL
2/19/07 CD4 487, % 26, VL 47,500
1/4/07   CD4 357, % 27, No VL
10/3/06 CD4 500, % 26, VL 18,000
7/6/06   CD4 530, % 29, VL 83,800
4/6/06   CD4 555, % 28, VL 13,000

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #178 on: March 06, 2007, 08:01:11 PM »
<<Perhaps he did... Controversy spawns interest. I believe thinkpos new membership doubled this week.
(Around 200 new users.)>>
Am I totally cynical in that I thought the exact same thing? It's terrific marketing to paint yourself as an underdog. Negative press simply gets WAY more attention than positive press.

OK.  So, if I say something like, "POZ magazine cockblocks me everytime I try to get laid," can I expect to gain around 200 new sex partners?

Hmm.

It's worth a shot.

POZ magazine cockblocks me at everytime I try to get laid.  They don't want me to have the dirty el sexo ever, and they told me that if I did, they would sue me.

Waiting... la la la...  dum dee do...

Waiting.

Crickets.

Damn!

This is all your fault, POZ magazine!  You shall rue the day!
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #179 on: March 06, 2007, 11:43:02 PM »
OK.  So, if I say something like, "POZ magazine cockblocks me everytime I try to get laid," can I expect to gain around 200 new sex partners?

Wouldn't that bring your daily average up to ~3?  Maybe you need a 12 step program after all.

Just saying... enough strange is enough.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #180 on: March 08, 2007, 04:57:31 PM »
While I am not a copyright/trademark attorney, I have had to deal with the "sticky" situations that surround trademarking.

POZ magazine may have trademarked the "word" POZ, but they can't trademark the three letters and prevent them from ever being used in that successive order.  The website in question is "thinkpoz" - run together, all one word - a new and different word.  It, therefore would not be a copyright or trademark infringement, from my understanding.

Case in point, my employer has several software package called Advantage_______   The only way we could trademark these names was to run the Advantage and the following word together into one word.  We couldn't trademark the word Advantage.

Yes,  I wish all the philanthropists associated the best of luck with their plight in trademark and copyright infringement.   Still, none came forward to face the topic directly.   I suspect some of my prior commentary may have to do with me being singled out as a "flame baiter" today.     However, I haven't sold out my group to CSI and I'm not making any threats.   Just saying!  Seems like the peak of hypocrisy to me!

I found it appalling I was singled out publically without given an opportunity to defend my statements by Peter himself locking the thread.   I think that pretty much proved my point before.

Well, guess I've ruffled a feather or two, but I think my own personal commentary was much less defamatory then some of the wording used by Peter himself.   

It's now become clear to me who and what this site caters to.   Certainly wouldn't refer anyone here for help now unless you fit the preferred cookie cutter mold.

Anyways, I guess we never did get a straight answer on this topic and probably never will.

Ciao!

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline bravebuddharich

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #181 on: March 08, 2007, 07:02:47 PM »
How many of us have started threads to blow off some steam? Maybe this thread was started that way, maybe not, whatever. I joined thinkpoz, which I wouldn't have known about otherwise. I joined myspace & strength in numbers as a result of reading posts about them on here. On another e-mail list, I learned about what is happening in Nigeria, with anti-gay legislation, and was moved to action of letters & phone calls (all I can realistically do, unfortunately). So I'm glad this thread as existed. I am against trademarks, ownership of words bothers me. I had a non-profit, the acronism (acronym? what's the word i'm looking for?) was BRAVE, imagine if the Atlanta Braves had sued me for trademark infringement? Geesh!

Offline koi1

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #182 on: March 08, 2007, 08:41:35 PM »
Wesley,

Thanks for insulting all of us with one foul swoop. I have had my share of warnings, and I still think this site is great, and worth staying for because of the people who are here. We ain't all gotta get along all of the time. I don't think I fit the cookie cutter mold of anything, and I don't think anyone is catering to me.

Controversies brew up, controversies die down. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm sure most people don't want to see you go either. I'm sorry you feel so alienated. This is still a place for support.  I think regardless of the bitchy things we all say to each other, we can find something good about most people on this website. It just all gets lost in the heat of argument and opinion. See it as earning your stripe for piquing the interest of a moderator.  :D

I am having a bad day too. And believe it or not I feel good to be able to type and surf this site.

rob
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 08:44:40 PM by koi1 »
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline AlanBama

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #183 on: March 08, 2007, 10:23:41 PM »
My sentiments exactly Rob.   I don't see what someone would expect to gain from insulting many of us, from Peter on down.....but I know it won't be something I quickly forget.   I may forget what I had for lunch today, but for insults like this, I have a memory like an elephant.

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Lis

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #184 on: March 08, 2007, 10:29:05 PM »
I love you Alan!!! 

this is crazy
poz 1986....

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #185 on: March 08, 2007, 10:43:43 PM »
Wesley,

Thanks for insulting all of us with one foul swoop. I have had my share of warnings, and I still think this site is great, and worth staying for because of the people who are here. We ain't all gotta get along all of the time. I don't think I fit the cookie cutter mold of anything, and I don't think anyone is catering to me.

Controversies brew up, controversies die down. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm sure most people don't want to see you go either. I'm sorry you feel so alienated. This is still a place for support.  I think regardless of the bitchy things we all say to each other, we can find something good about most people on this website. It just all gets lost in the heat of argument and opinion. See it as earning your stripe for piquing the interest of a moderator.  :D

I am having a bad day too. And believe it or not I feel good to be able to type and surf this site.

rob

Rob,

Who said I was referring to the members when I was talking about who this site caters to?  You got me wrong on this!

It seems evident that the members don't matter however the sponsors do.

The question has still gone unanswered!   I also didn't say I was leaving, but I certainly won't be contributing nearly as much.

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #186 on: March 09, 2007, 02:00:00 AM »
Rob,

Who said I was referring to the members when I was talking about who this site caters to?  You got me wrong on this!

It seems evident that the members don't matter however the sponsors do.

The question has still gone unanswered!   I also didn't say I was leaving, but I certainly won't be contributing nearly as much.

Wesley


Wesley,

So you copped a warning. Don't let it burn your butt babe. Sooner or later any serious contributor to a place like this is going to earn the ire of the Goderators. Frankly, if Ann isn't mad at you most of the time, you're just not making an effort dear. ;)

Matty the Damned has had one or two himself you know.

Rob, as usual, makes an excellent point. He's a wise chap.

If I may offer my own piece of gratuitous advice, it would be to avoid absolute statements like "I certainly won't be contributing nearly as much." These are almost never true. Just go about your business as always. Things will be cool.

MtD

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #187 on: March 09, 2007, 07:47:19 AM »


   


   Huh?  I think I missed some stuff.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #188 on: March 09, 2007, 12:17:08 PM »
There are no unanswered questions.  Poz.com doesnt comment on this type of stuff in a public forum.  NO BUSINESS DOES.  Ray got his panties all in a twist yet again, and stormed out of here like Leonid the Magnificent!

Im just sorry he is getting this much publicit... shit, Im contributing arent I?  DAMNIT....better....stop....typi
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #189 on: March 09, 2007, 04:00:56 PM »
I thought this thread was going to die, but it would seem it's in some dire need of euthanasia. 
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline NycJoe

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #190 on: March 09, 2007, 04:35:22 PM »
Ray is a PR genius.  I give him credit.  Kudos for him and his site.  I think its a cool place

Offline Longislander

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #191 on: March 09, 2007, 05:50:21 PM »
he's up to 550 as of last night! ;)
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline ACinKC

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #192 on: March 09, 2007, 07:07:52 PM »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

BobF

  • Guest
Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #193 on: March 10, 2007, 03:15:08 PM »
It's ridiculous to think that "poz" in any way can be "owned" by those at poz.com.    You'd think they'd have more important issues to worry about than attacking Ray at thinkpoz.com or any of the other sites or people using such a common acronym !

Offline Ann

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Re: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com
« Reply #194 on: March 10, 2007, 03:32:25 PM »
Bob,

Did you actually read the thread? For the last time, nobody attacked Ray. He was simply asked if he would mind changing the name of his site and offered a subscription to POZ magazine.

This thread has run out of new material and I don't see any reason to keep rehashing the same tired subject. I'm locking it.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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