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Author Topic: some questions about window period last so long  (Read 5039 times)

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Offline jwcsmu

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some questions about window period last so long
« on: February 25, 2007, 12:12:29 PM »
there's a web from uscf
http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=ask-01-07-31

"It is very difficult to find a large group of people who can pinpoint the moment when they became infected and then test them at least once a week for several months. One study was done using a sample of health care workers who were infected by needlesticks. From this study we can make an estimate about the average time it takes to develop antibodies. Until antibodies are present, the infected person will continue to test negative.

In an unpublished study of 51 health care workers infected through needle sticks the median window period was 46 days and the mean was 65 days. Two of the 51 did not seroconvert for more than six months. According to Dr. Michael Busch, who has published many articles on blood screening, this means that 50% of people infected with HIV will develop antibodies by 46 days. At three months about "85-90%" of patients would develop antibodies, and by six months "over 95%." As you can see, the difference between a test at three months and a test at six months is minimal. For most people who had some risk, but are not certain they were exposed to HIV, a test at three months is enough. To be more certain, you should wait until six months. Do not test at one month, because you will need to retest and this is a waste of resources."

indicated by the research,10%-15% window period last more than three weeks.
but there are two questions about it

1.if one infect hiv through needle sticks,maybe the virus enter the humen's blood system much slower than through sex?
2.I wonder if when the health care wokers were exposed,they started to get some prophylactic treatment as antiviral drugs for some time,which made their window period last longer than common cases?


Offline RapidRod

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 12:17:23 PM »
Disregard that article and find one that is more up to date. You are talking about an 11 year old article.

Offline Ann

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 12:25:47 PM »
jw,

From the article you link to:

Quote
We analyzed demographic and laboratory data on more than 4.1 million blood donations obtained in 1992 and 1993...

Test have come a LONG way since the 1990s. So has research. With the tests now in use, we know that the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. The three month window period still exists simply to catch the rare person who takes slightly longer than six weeks to test positive. Hiv is nothing to guess about.

And yes, the use of PEP (post exposure prophylaxis) DOES lengthen the window period. If you have a wander over to the CSI forum, there are two threads at the top of the page where the proceedure following occupational risks such as needle-sticks are discussed in detail. The posts by Tim Horn and 411 represent the CURRENT state of the science of hiv testing.

Would you like to discuss with us why you are worrying about window periods?

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 12:27:25 PM »
thanks for you two
actually,I got two testing 41days and 44days after a sex,both negative.
however,there are so many theory about window period that I can't confirm one.Also in my oppion,the length of window period is hard to define,course of we can't carry out such experiments with men.And it's really hard to confim the date when one actually infected,and few of people infected would got a testing once a week since exposed.
so ,I am still in doubt of all the theories about window period including even six months.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 12:44:34 PM by jwcsmu »

Offline Ann

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2007, 12:35:58 PM »
jw,

As I just told you, you can find more information in the forum I linked you to, in the top two threads (start with Episode One) - and you also need to read through the Lessons links in the Welcome Thread.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2007, 12:53:06 PM »
right,may the lessons get rid of my nervours.

Offline Ann

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2007, 12:55:33 PM »
jw,

Would you like to discuss with us why you are worrying about window periods? Unless you've been having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse, or sharing drug injecting equipment, you are likely worrying over nothing.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2007, 01:22:13 PM »
I am indeed worried about the length of window period,for I know there's no efficient statistical methord for researchers to estimate such an medical puzzle.
I don't konw when I can completely know that I am not infected,may be six months,but it's really hard to wait.
I had a vaginal sex  using a condom and an oral sex without a condom,I am the inserting party in both.Maybe the risk is low,but is not no!there may be blood in her mouth and I couldn't remember whether the condom was off or  broken for I was so drunk that night.the more dangerous factor is that that girl who may share drugs with others was  above me during sex that night,so her body fluid may flow to my skin......
Anything is possible though my six weeks testing is negative so I am still not away from danger.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 01:31:32 PM by jwcsmu »

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2007, 01:28:31 PM »
A negative at six weeks is actually quite encouraging. The average time to seroconversion is 22 days. All but the smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure to the HIV virus.

It is significantly harder to accomplish from female to male. Given this was a single incident of unprotected intercourse and with your having tested negative at 6 weeks, the odds are very much in your favor that you will continue to test negative.

Receiving oral is not a risk for transmission. However, you need to stay awake to the very real dangers of excessive drinking and impulsive, casual sex. Sex when drunk makes you vulnerable to making unsafe decisions which put your life at risk.

I expect you will continue to test negative. Re-test at 13 weeks and collect what I expect will be another and final, reliable negative result.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2007, 01:44:15 PM »
anyway,it's so nice of  all of you.
though fear is still not away,disscusing with you relieves it much.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 01:51:54 PM by jwcsmu »

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2007, 02:19:57 PM »
Fortunately fears and other scary feelings aren't facts. I expect you will come out of this ok.

I'm glad you have found the exchanges to be helpful.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2007, 05:25:11 PM »
jw,

You did NOT have a risk. Getting a blowjob is NO risk, with or without a condom. Protected intercourse is just that, protected. Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv infection. You only need to test if it is a part of a regular, routine sexual health care check up.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

411

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2007, 03:58:42 AM »
jwcsmu
I'm right there with Ann and everyone else in assertions that you were never at risk for infection. There's a lot of information on the net and unfortunately it often doesn't reflect the most current offerings. Moreover, a lot of the information in the neterlands is poached from other sites and placed online by organizations that aren't really informed as to what they are writing about.

Even current information is in a constant state of flux. What is currently known is that today's testing technology is extremely accurate and sensitive in detecting HIV infection. Its also simple, easy to perform and reliable. As was already pointed out, if someone is going to test positive the current tests are going to detect that within weeks of infection and a negative test at 6 weeks is highly predictive of the final results at 3 months.

I looked at the site you referenced and it was easy to see just how dated the content was. In fact the section on blood donation testing was very outdated and doesn't represent the current testing methods employed. Additionally, basing a case on one unpublished study conducted in the early 90's is not enough to form an opinion. Perhaps it represented the best information at that time but that information has to be tempered with what is in current practise and HIV is probably one of the most severely examined transmittable diseases out there. Testing, treatment and every other element of the disease is under constant challenge and what was fresh last year is tempered by new found knowledge.

I noted that Ann referenced the thread in CSI/NY. In both those threads I commented on health care workers testing out to 6 months. Its certainly not because HCWs take longer to test positive than other groups but rather reflects long outdated legislation. Legislation is by its very nature extremely conservative and is often left untouched years past when it should have been suspended, updated or merged into other more relevant regulations.

I'll simplify this. We ( my government organization) have health care workers, they get sharp injuries with too much frequency. They baseline test, they test again at 6 weeks and at 3 months. They are councilled that they can and should test at 6 months to allow us to close the file but they are informed that they did not acquire HIV at their 3 month negative. They can choose to test but its not really necessary. We're compelled to give them the option of that 6 month test because its our due diligence requirement to advise them its available.

Frankly, given the nature of what you reported, I wouldn't have considered it a risk even warranting a need for a test and that 6 week result simply confirmed the advice already offered to you. However, I can't tell you that your 6 week is definitive because this site reflects CDC values and a 3 month negative is needed for that golden handshake.

Will you go on to test positive, absolutely not, but now that you are on the testing bandwagon it would be inappropriate for this site to report to a person testing that their 6 week negative is conclusive.
Go on and collect that expected 3 month negative but in the meantime try to resume a normal life; your incident wasn't risky by any definition except your own.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 04:00:48 AM by 411 »

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2007, 08:16:13 AM »
I'm worried about the window period again.
As we know,usually there's a very long time between when someone was infected and when he got testing positive,because he didn't realize he may be infected after his risky action,so he didn't go to get testing untill several years later when the sick broke out.   As a result ,nobody could tell the exact date when he just seroconverted.
Even if we know the exact date he just seroconverted,since one who was infected usually had more than once risky action,no one could tell the date when he was infected.
In fact,if one has relized his only once action is risky,and he got testing weekly or monthly,usually he is not an infected person.
How can we know the exact length of window period?It's so hard to estimate.No one could tell.
Still in fear.When could the whole thing end?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 08:19:44 AM by jwcsmu »

Offline RapidRod

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2007, 08:20:56 AM »
You don't have to worry about a window period, you didn't have a risk. You have been given the information about serocoversion in the above replies. If you can't get over this non risk issue, seek the help of mental health professional.

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2007, 08:41:33 AM »
I thingk my nervous is reasonable for my action is not completely safe though I used a condom.
Because when we had sex,she was above me,I was under her.So her body fluid may  flew down to my skin!!!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 08:44:33 AM by jwcsmu »

Offline RapidRod

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2007, 08:52:37 AM »
STOP with further posting until you've read the "Welcome" thread and followed and read the links on transmission. You were suppose to have done this before you began to post.

Offline jwcsmu

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Help!Am I in danger?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2008, 07:52:26 AM »
Yesterday I went to massage.One minute before the massage girl came to me,she served a man  by masturbation, a man who takes drugs so that may be infected with HIV.Of course her hands touched sperms from the probably infected man.
The point is,when the girl were doing massage for me,she scraped my skin on my back sometimes with her finger nail.That was just two or three minutes after her hands touched his sperm!!!And I don't know whether she washed her hands before she came to me!!!
Though there wasn't any blooding wound on my skin,there appeared some red prints made by her finger nail.I know that the skin of human's body are so thin that it could be easily broken by finger nail and may be the HIV frome her hand could get in my body through it.
I am nervous and need your help.Please help me!

Offline Ann

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2008, 08:33:10 AM »
jw,

Being masturbated, no matter what sort of gory details you can think of to add, is NOT a risk for hiv infection. Hiv transmission happens INSIDE the body, getting jacked off happens OUTSIDE the body.

You didn't have a risk.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2008, 10:15:38 AM »
even if the HIV sperms frome her hands entered my body through my skin?

Offline atlq

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2008, 10:17:55 AM »
even if the HIV sperms frome her hands entered my body through my skin?

That can't happen. You are at no risk.
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline Ann

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2008, 10:22:27 AM »
jw,

You've been coming here long enough now to have read the Transmission Lesson linked to in our Welcome Thread. Make sure you read our posting guidelines while you're there.

Hiv is NOT transmitted through skin-to-skin contact, which is what you're suggesting.

Hiv is transmitted sexually INSIDE the human body, as in UNPROTECTED anal or vaginal intercourse. Make sure condoms are used for intercourse and you will prevent transmission. Yes, it really is that simple. Read through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them with confidence.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jwcsmu

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Re: some questions about window period last so long
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2008, 10:24:11 AM »
ok
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 10:28:44 AM by jwcsmu »

 


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