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Author Topic: Can't we all just get along?  (Read 4224 times)

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Offline Boo Radley

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    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Can't we all just get along?
« on: February 22, 2007, 05:43:54 PM »
I rejoined the new AM forums in August 2006 after leaving the old ones in December 2005.

During the time I was gone there appears to have been a perception by a few newer members that some who have lived with HIV longer and, in many cases, have been ill due to HIV and are still ill with HIV/AIDS, were "harshing the buzz" of the group.  Several long-time forums members stopped using the forums. 

In many cases the more recently infected have been told HIV disease is a "chronic treatable illness" by their doctors, not realizing doctors sometimes paint a rosier picture than reality might bring.  Those who started HAART within the last 3 - 5 years (I started October, 2004) have, in general, had an easier regimen to adhere to (e.g., 2 pills to take twice a day instead of 16 three to four times a day) and many of us have experienced fewer short-term side effects for a fairly short period.   To us HAART is a relative breeze.  We haven't been taking these toxic drugs as long as many have and long-term effects are a potential, if probable, future problem.  We remain hopeful newer treatments will be less toxic.  There seem to be some reasons for optimism.

Those of us living with HIV for 10 - 20+ years have seen every new drug come out and know 30% or more HIV+ people don't respond to meds or the meds eventually fail to stop HIV replication.   For many long-term HAART toxicity has forced them to switch to other drugs.  Many people have had a laundry list of OIs and many still are susceptible to OIs without prophylaxis.  There are people here who have run out of treatment options.  The shared experiences of many long-term pozzies are as valuable today as they ever were for the more recently infected or recently diagnosed. 

It doesn't matter if I haven't explicitly identified the issues nor does it matter "who started it."  There seems to be a rift between some people who tested positive more recently and some living with HIV for 10 - 20+ years.  There is no reason for us to battle each other.   

My simple question is can we all agree to bury the hatchet, bear no malice, end the quarrel, forget, forgive, hold out the olive branch, kiss and make up, let bygones be bygones, make a peace offering, make peace, smoke the peace pipe, wipe the slate clean, and stop sniping ?

I'm gathering signatures by the water cooler at 7PM EST.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Lis

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2007, 05:54:55 PM »
I'm sorry if I have caused trouble.. I have been hurt more then once in these forums for the fact that i have AIDS, and not the "manageable " form... I want for all of us to get to a place where we feel safe enough to tell the truth.. some peoples truth is I'm fine.. others... not so much.. I respect the fact that this is a very personal illness... your life is not like mine... mine is not like yours... the one thing we do have in common is this fucking bug!!!  that stupid hippie thing is coming to mind..

together we stand.. divided we fall  (OK I know its lame , but true to some extent)


Good health to all!!

lisbeth
(who is having a very lucid day)
poz 1986....

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2007, 06:03:32 PM »
I often try to tell HIV/AIDS workers this very scenario, and I always add that it is very important to realize that when you are talking to someone who is living with HIV/AIDS that they might have just pulled their head out of the toilet and had to clean up their own vomit just because they didn't want to live like a pig.

Few, if any of you, understand that when I am prolificly posting that it is because I have just eaten breakfast and cannot leave the vicinity of the toilet until the third bowel movement, or no sooner than 10 am if I am going to be constipated.  Also, few understand that when I come here it is probably because I just don't feel good enough to work, or the weather is really too cold to go outside.  This being Arizona, guess which one is more common.

I don't fault the ones who don't understand, but I would like it if this situation with our bodies was posted in the introduction post by the owners, and caution users that these are the facts and to be careful what we post.  

I guess the experiences of the newer infectees will by default be better than ours, but what concerns me is who is paying attention to you all in ten years when your drugs start failing, or worse, your organs are incapable of sustaining a low vl because your bodies are revolting against the long term side effects.  It is just a question that needs to be answered by someone.

These are just my thoughts, and I trust that we can all get along, or we are all going to be miserable.  We all need each other and we need to understand that the rest of the world cares less and less about our plight.

In Love.
(In awe of Lis, who is one that came to mind while I was writing this post.  Wow, she pecked five lines...  Yeahhhh)
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline dtwpuck

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  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2007, 06:07:16 PM »
Boo... I completely agree.

I do think that new converts, so to speak, haven't had the time to adjust and it is sometimes helpful to be understanding and try to remember what it was like when we first found out.  Even if the date of our seroconversions date from the days when funerals were as common as dinner parties, we are not necessarily more wise. 

I also hope that when someone is lashing out because he's been up all night shivering and in a really crabby mood, that we all have the presence of mind to forgive, and just understand.  We are all human, and we are all a bit scared, tired and weary. 

Thanks for posting this thread.
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline poet

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2007, 06:09:19 PM »
Boo, since your thread appears (at the moment) beneath the one about 'tops and bottoms,' I assumed that we knew that we had to get along.   ;D  Certainly I have seen friction here at times, having only been a member since mid-October but hiv positive for 23 years.  I hope that at best I try to keep perspective alive, pulling from the past situations which, because they are real and personal, might help fill out gaps of understanding, connections for those who can only watch movies to try to understand where things once were, where Act-Up and other organisations came from and why, the context behind certain posts.  I hope, too, that our being able to say that 'we're still here' may help those who are dealing with their first day after diagnosis, their first day after meds.  Best, Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2007, 06:12:21 PM »
Except for some folks who have been members for a while, i don't know who is old and who is new.  How do you guys keep track?  This issue has been coming up ever since I first joined the group.  I doubt anything will ever change. 

Some newbies will discount the views of the oldies and some oldies will ignore the views of the newbies.  But most oldies and newbies will not give a damn.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2007, 06:13:50 PM »
Tim,

While I agree with you in that medical workers aren't always completely accurate in how they describe the disease, I don't see it as a totally bad thing.  I wonder how many, if they 'knew' they'd have a life full of vomit, shitting in their pants, no energy, OI's, etc would even start treatment instead of having a decent shorter life?  Talk about freaking out the newly diagnosed!  Personally, I'd rather ease into this 'new life' of mine without the stress, anxiety, and fear that surely can't be good for my health.  Some of us will learn in time what hell some folks go through, and some will get killed by that bus  ;)  before times get too bad for them. 

That's all unimportant, really.  What is important is that we support each other in dealing with what we have in common, "this fucking bug" (well described, Lis).  Besides that, most of us have no more in common than two people who pass on the street. 

David   
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline penguin

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2007, 06:20:00 PM »
sadly, i have neither the buzz, nor the energy for the harshing of it - but for always making me smile, mr boo, you get a  :)

kate

Offline Bucko

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2007, 06:24:20 PM »
There's been the addition of an entire Newbie forum where, presumably they can find specific threads relating to their specific concerns.

I remember my first few attempts at finding support when I was initially diagnosed (and prior to that, as both a primary care-giver and someone in grief) and the same dynamic applied. In my rush to feel as loathesome and self-obsessed as possible, I rarely found much comfort from the mouths of the survivors.

And as a young man in my late teens and early twenties it was easy to dismiss my elders as bitter prunes who hadn't got it right. Often my presumptions were validated, occasionally not. But such is the perogative of the young.

Brent
(Who hopes the nuances aren't missed)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 06:30:25 PM »
I feel like something of an odd duck then.

Even as a child, I prefered the company of adults (my mom thought I was weird) spurring those my age as incapable of holding a decent conversation.

As I've gotten into my twenties more, I've come to realize that I prefer the company (sexual, social and otherwise) of those older than myself.  Generally, for the "people my age are generally incapable of having a decent conversation or a decent fuck" reason.

That said, most of the people I've come closest to here are generally ten to twenty-five years older than I am and are, more often than not... long-term survivors.

So, my youthful exuberance and Generation Y irony aside... I quite like being in the company, virtual or not, of those older than myself.   
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline bocker3

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 06:36:22 PM »
I guess the experiences of the newer infectees will by default be better than ours, but what concerns me is who is paying attention to you all in ten years when your drugs start failing, or worse, your organs are incapable of sustaining a low vl because your bodies are revolting against the long term side effects.  It is just a question that needs to be answered by someone.

First -- I absolutely agree that we can, should and must get along.  Our personal experiences may be different, but we can all get support and encouragement from each other.  Just remember that we all are different and may have different opinions on things.  Different doesn't always mean wrong.

Now, I quoted above, because while I think it is so important that people understand it isn't always easy, rosy or fun.  Some people have a horrible time compared with others.  I, for one, need to remember that.  However, I don't think it serves a purpose to have new people think that their future is analogous to someone elses.  There is no way to know that 10 yrs from now my meds will fail and my body will be revolting.  I think it's good that people understand that we don't know what the future holds, but why paint it all doom and gloom.  That doesn't help the "newbie" who is freaking out over every little thing going on with his body.  So, the question that needs to be answered, is why does anyone think they "read the future".  Let's all get along by supporting each other, being honest, but not unnecessarily scaring and of course, be cognizant that one's "easy time" with this disease, doesn't minimize someone else's more difficult existence with this damn virus.

Thanks,
Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2007, 07:27:09 PM »
I posted this in Lis's thread in "Off Topic", but I'm going to copy it here (just 'cause I can!)
____________________________________

I believe that each one of us, whether newly diagnosed or Long-Term Survivor, has our own set of 'issues', that are equally as important as anyone else's issues.
There is no reason why we can't all be more tolerant of each other and put some pettiness aside and get down to the real issue of SUPPORT, which is what we are here for.

Let's all grow a little bit thicker skin, and let's all be respectful of where someone is on the journey.

As a side note, one thing I would like to mention is that practically everyone I have ever known who is a long-term survivor of AIDS (many of whom I have met through this site) is as TOUGH AS NAILS.   We've had to be.   Moffie, RAB, Lis, Lisa, Joe, Herman, Dan.....each of us is very different, but similar in that we are all incredibly strong people.  Sometimes that strength may come across as a bit overbearing, but as for myself, I  only want to help someone else find their way, not tell them that my way is the ONLY way.

In the words of another LTS, "Just sayin"......

with love and respect for ALL !
Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline bravebuddharich

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2007, 07:49:32 PM »
The aspiration to all get along is quite wonderful, but... I have found in group after group, it isn't possible!! Fears get in the way. Ageism, sexism, classism (especially this one!), so many other isms!! I can certainly understand the fears of people who are more recently poz - why we who have been dealing with this for a long time can be scary - yet this impulse needs to be discouraged.

Still, the aspiration is important! This thread was helpful for me!

Offline Nico

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2007, 07:51:50 PM »
Since I joined this family (that is how I view all of you), I have been amazed and in a daze sometimes. 

I like what Boo wrote as well as others.  I am not new to HIV or AIDS.  I have AIDS by definition and have been Poz since 1989.  Still, I am new here as a member, just a little over a few months listening and hearing others beside my own thoughts and opinions.

I have been confused why I have been poz for so long, got an OI and AIDS and today have a T count of 900 and 47% after being told once I hit 18%, I would not recover.  So lesson learned, I guess.  Still learning as I write this non directional reply.

I am getting off thread, but bury the hatchet I say yes!  I need all of you and I am still trying to grow skin and I hope one day to get a good tan and not from Reyataz!  ;D

Love and Hugs!
Roger


Edit- another typo!
 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 07:53:38 PM by Nico »
Poz since 1990.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2007, 08:03:18 PM »
Few, if any of you, understand that when I am prolificly posting that it is because I have just eaten breakfast and cannot leave the vicinity of the toilet until the third bowel movement, or no sooner than 10 am if I am going to be constipated.  

But have you defecated in your jeans on a crowded NYC subway platform?  Do I win more points for experiencing this utter trauma?  :)

And no, I've not gotten over it even a decade later so don't ask.  It will ALWAYS be clear in my eyes.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2007, 08:04:11 PM »
And how should I make out Boo's label?  He's an oldie by definition, but a n00b by HAART standards.  I'll go with the later.

That will be 10 HIV demerits, please.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2007, 12:22:26 AM »
Except for some folks who have been members for a while, i don't know who is old and who is new.  How do you guys keep track?  This issue has been coming up ever since I first joined the group.  I doubt anything will ever change. 

Some newbies will discount the views of the oldies and some oldies will ignore the views of the newbies.  But most oldies and newbies will not give a damn.

I wanna know how long are you considered new in the forums and to the virus. I'm going on being with this for 10 years, am I still new? Or would I be considered naive because I never took meds but soon to change with recent cd4 count. And Am I still considered new to the forums even though I have only been here since last October. I would like to know too who keeps track?


(who's stuck in the middle, I guess)
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2007, 12:29:20 AM »
Honestly,, I don't think we can all get along. People like myself, who rely on first tiered peer reviewed science, will always bristle when misinformation is presented as fact. Even anecdotal stuff. That's why I try to avoid the newly diagnosed forum, because the immaculate infections require a finnesse I simply lack.

We all hav things to come to terms with, and in our own time. But While I try really hard not to get personal when correcting misinformation, I do feel an obligation for the scientific evidence. The truth, as this site defines it.

In that way, there will ALWAYS be friction here. The best we can do is to know when to disengage and leave it to the moderators. While I hate being called a tattletale, I have decided that my return to these forums, tentative though it is, depends on the hard work of those whose duty it is to moderate.

I don't want to start flames, nor participate in them. But bullying, denialist, and misinformation is something I can't be a part of. And if that ultimately causes me to leave the site for good, well, I would be better off.

As long as I draw breath, I want to be of some use to someone. And by trying to keep the scientific credibility of these forums, I feel I am doing some of that good. I missed that relevance, and since returning, I feel as though it needs that sort of vigilance.

If someone doesn't like my posts, they are free to place me on ignore.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Mike89406

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2007, 12:51:39 AM »
What I know is were all at different levels in our progression of HIV/AIDS some similar to one another and some 180 degrees apart or 7 degrees of seperation.

The point is some people are more vocal and thats to be expected, and some naive,, and many in between we can all learn from one another I attribute my knowledge of HIV to good doctors and nurses that have explained necessary things to me and educted me in how to manage my life with a chronic condition. Don't get me wrong this chronic condition can become very chronic and even deadly if you neglect it much like diabetes or worse, and yes some have even done all the good things but have been affected by OI's and bad luck timing or other heallth problems etc...

I have learned from newly diagnosed people as well as people infected 10-20 yrs with a wealth of knowledge in my clinic,HIV support groups, on this forum too. I've also met  people that dont know how to take care of themselves or dont care, and being infected longer than me. I think most people here benefit from becoming more knowlegable about they're health, meds, knowing what do in different scenerios, how to disclose if we decide to, help bring awareness about HIV erasing a lot of old stigmas that the public still believes etc...Knowledge is power anyways were here to support one another learn about this journey and inevitably keep living productive lives.

In light of the increased technology, and life expectancy increasingas well Some of us have to make decisions how to pursue a career, college etc...living healthier lives so we can take care of our families, and loved ones as well.

Offline DanielMark

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2007, 05:40:00 AM »
Can't we all just get along?

Boo,

These being open forums on the Internet, I don't come here with expectations of total peace and harmony. As in my actual life, I don't believe it's realistic to expect everyone to agree or be in sync when dealing with such a diverse gathering of people. Because I don't have that expectation, I am rarely if ever disappointed.

Arguing and flame baiting I simply overlook and move onto something worth spending time on. Itís better for my blood pressure that way. I find it the kindest choice really.

Civility and basic good manners it seems are more and more becoming a lost art. In light of that, I just live my own life, and let others live theirs. No expectations here.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline Cliff

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2007, 07:45:56 AM »
(who's stuck in the middle, I guess)
A Queen is anywhere but stuck in the middle.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2007, 07:56:41 AM »
But have you defecated in your jeans on a crowded NYC subway platform?  Do I win more points for experiencing this utter trauma?  :)

Philly267,

No, I have never deficated on a NYC subway platform because I choose not to be on a NYC subway platform.

I have deficated:
in the car
in the market
in the open desert
in the woods
in church
and finally in the bathroom.

Obviously you wanted to make jest of my point and I obvously don't understand english anymore, so I will give you this.

YOU WIN, I GIVE UP!

I trust that our combined posts are proof that "No we can't all get along!"

Totally confused!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 08:25:36 AM by Moffie65 »
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Online Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2007, 08:46:07 AM »
Obviously you wanted to make jest of my point and I obvously don't understand english anymore, so I will give you this.

YOU WIN, I GIVE UP!

I trust that our combined posts are proof that "No we can't all get along!"

Totally confused!

Geez, lighten up girl.  While my situation did happen it was basically a joke.  Do you have a sense of humor or not?  Why start a war when there's no need for one?

And yeah, shitting in your pants is like the most traumatic thing in the world, or at least it is for me.  Even if it happens at home, though that's not as bad in public which is just... well, words defy.

I was just commiserating -- sorry that you took it the wrong way!  I was basically saying I've been where you've been and I understand.  You're original statement that I quoted was somewhat condescending, and I was merely saying that YES there are some of us here who bear and equally heavy HIV cross.  I'm sure there are some here who even bear heavier ones. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 09:05:27 AM by philly267 »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mjmel

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2007, 09:02:01 AM »
Can't we all just get along?

Calamity at Hand: All the bickering and bitching and reading-of-beads and multitasking, multidemented, (oops! multidimensional, i mean), and good and bad advice and jokes, and losing ones cool..........being less or more knowledgeable...being young or older......

isn't it all part of this unfolding human experience? Peter creates a site. Moderators keep folks in line. The audience and participants of this board are real people with real flaws and strength's. When we pool our collective "selves" together there is bound to be differences. How can it be any other way? Any true loss occurs if we permanently alienate someone from help/support by means of egotism. We then fail in our mission(s) and purpose(s).

I applaud and commend the words Boo has posted. People who sincerely extend the olive branch now and again are in nature excellent people. It helps tremendouly. He's not the only one. Thank Goodness.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2007, 09:08:47 AM »
And yeah, shitting in your pants is like the most traumatic thing in the world, or at least it is for me. 
I was just commiserating -- sorry that you took it the wrong way!  I was basically saying I've been where you've been and I understand.

OK Philly.

I must ask for your forgiveness, I read your post as very confrontive, which also illustrates my shortcomings in deciphering humor here on this board.

I thank you for your followup post, which explains your thoughts very well, and I will try in the future to get the punch line before I go off. 

My Apologies.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Central79

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2007, 09:11:12 AM »
I'm definitely a newbie. Diagnosed Jan 2006, no meds, none of the problems I read about on these forums except for those going on in my head. I worry mainly - about the future, about infecting my bf, about people finding out my status and discriminating against me at work.

Despite that, I feel an affinity with all of the people who have been dealing with this virus and its consequences so much longer than me. Even before I was diagnosed I'd read the books of Edmund White and Paul Monette and been appalled by the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, and the effect it had on a whole generation of people who basically couldn't be treated. I cannot imagine what it must have been like to live through this. But I see the strength in the people that did, and draw courage from that - if they made it, if they can deal with these side effects, so will I if it happens. I understand that I'm at less risk but I don't feel reading Moffle's blog that he's minimising my worries and fears. It is easier now in terms of treatment, but everybody's worries and fears deserve consideration - mine aren't about the treatment yet. I see my boyfriends concerns about his estate agent, or utility bill as being trivial. Then I'm blown away by the guy with 20 T-cells congratulating ME on my great numbers...

I guess what I'm trying to say is we have this virus in common that binds us into the society of this forum. But we also have these different and disparate lives outside the commonality of HIV. I don't think that makes the support I get here any less valuable, or means that I have nothing to learn from people who have been through the mill much harder than I'm ever likely to. I guess it basically comes down to respect, and tolerance. I don't think you can have any kind of society without them.

Matt.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 09:14:03 AM by Matt Mee »
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline David_CA

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2007, 09:35:45 AM »
As long as I draw breath, I want to be of some use to someone. And by trying to keep the scientific credibility of these forums, I feel I am doing some of that good. I missed that relevance, and since returning, I feel as though it needs that sort of vigilance.

JK, although I don't always agree with your OPINIONS or ways in which you express them, the FACTS and experiences you present are always of use to somebody, most likely many people.  See, without the experiences of the 'old timers' (never intended to offend with that term), those of us who are relatively new to this would be like you guys were back in the early days of HIV & AIDS.  It would be kind of like being stuck in a country that doesn't speak one's language.  I'd be totally lost without your (plural) experiences and knowledge to guide me along.  Thanks to all you 'old timers' for that.  The issues and problems you've suffered from serve as a reality check for me.  Back in March '06, when I was new here and to my HIV diagnosis, many of you were so supportive and that had more of an impact on me than actually knowing I was poz.  For that, thank you. 

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline David_CA

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2007, 09:44:51 AM »
But have you defecated in your jeans on a crowded NYC subway platform?  Do I win more points for experiencing this utter trauma?  :)

And no, I've not gotten over it even a decade later so don't ask.  It will ALWAYS be clear in my eyes.

Hell, WAY back before I was infected, I shit my pants in public.  I thought it was just gas, but it turned out to be a more liquid substance.  I don't know what was up with that, but luckily I had a beach towel in the car (a benefit of living on the coast I guess) that I folded several times to keep it from soaking into the upholstery.  It just goes to show, one can shit their pants at any time in any situation.  I'm just a bit more careful to make sure that it is gas before I pass it now!   ;)

David (who's not making light of anybody's shitty situations!)
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2007, 10:34:14 AM »
The problem with defecating on public transportation is that there's NO WHERE to hide.  I mean you are just trapped.  I couldn't walk home really, it was too far away.  I was in Brooklyn so it wasn't a matter of flagging a taxi like in Manhattan.  I had to walk to the end of the platform and disrobe, hoping nobody would see (someone did!  a MTA worker!) and throw my feces soaked underwear (2xst no less!) down on the tracks.

You could still smell me I'm sure on the train.  It was absolutely mortifying.  Protease Inhibitors have always wrecked my digestive track, though I can't recall exactly which one it was at that time.  Probably Invirase as it was the first one out wasn't it?  Plus I probably wasn't yet throwing back 10 loperamides a day to control it.  Yes, TEN.  That's what was needed.  So absurd and I can't believe I was never offered tincture of opium back then.  As a result all the PI's just ran through my body and I developed like 95% resistance to the entire class even though I'm Mr. Adherence.  So damn annoying.

ps:  Moffie, thanks -- I PM'd you back.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Bucko

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2007, 11:46:34 AM »

I guess what I'm trying to say is we have this virus in common that binds us into the society of this forum. But we also have these different and disparate lives outside the commonality of HIV. I don't think that makes the support I get here any less valuable, or means that I have nothing to learn from people who have been through the mill much harder than I'm ever likely to. I guess it basically comes down to respect, and tolerance. I don't think you can have any kind of society without them.

Matt.

Not to quibble or pull things out of context, but the section I highlighted from Matt's post above is really at the crux of the matter, at least for me. Six or seven years ago my daily frustrations were a missed subway train or an extra-long line at the grocery check-out. I took my meds, which I tolerated easily, worked hard to maintain my relationship and lived my life.

But living with HIV indefinitely means facing challenges that cannot be forseen ahead of time. My finances collapsed when my health insurance was cancelled. Did I ever think that such a thing was possible? Did I ever think that I'd let such a thing happen?

It's only when one realizes that there are larger forces effecting one's life, forces over which we have pitiful little say or sway that humility or bitterness become the yardstick of one's character. I fight with all my might against bitterness, even when the alternative sends me into despair.

Brent
(Who means nothing personal about Matt or his post)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Life

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2007, 11:56:16 AM »
I breazed through this thread, unscathed, cuz I chose not to become upset, depressed, sad by reading it..  But it was nice to look at all your pretty avatars...

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2007, 03:56:03 PM »
As usual my meandering ramble didn't succinctly state what I had in mind.

I know it's unrealistic to expect everyone to like everyone else and impossible for all of us to agree on every topic under the sun, but I don't ask for that. 

Let's wipe the slate clean and discard ill will between members who have clashed or formed unfavorable opinions of others.  I have a fair share of discarding to do (but luckily a main source of constant dismay is no longer here).  I apologize to anyone I have offended, intentionally or unintentionally.   I'm going to try not to offend anyone intentionally although I fear I offend some unintentionally by being myself.  Some people offend me with statements they make but I usually ignore them.  Usually.  I know that will still happen but I'll try to rein myself in. 

Maybe Peter should change the SMF software so that new posts aren't posted until 24 hours after composition, which will allow everyone time to think about what they wrote... ha ha ha.

I will still disagree with others and vice versa but I will do my best not to engage in flaming (oh, shut up, it's possible!) or other activities which create unnecessary tension.  We all have to agree to disagree.  There will always be heated debates and antipodal views on many topics but they can be civil, without personal slights and acrimony. 

Well, in my utopian world there could be, at any rate.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2007, 04:43:55 PM »
I'm dying to ruin this with a really inflammatory comment.  But instead I'll just say "Can I have what she's having?"
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline poet

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2007, 06:41:52 PM »
Matt phrases what I meant earlier: Despite that, I feel an affinity with all of the people who have been dealing with this virus and its consequences so much longer than me. Even before I was diagnosed I'd read the books of Edmund White and Paul Monette and been appalled by the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, and the effect it had on a whole generation of people who basically couldn't be treated. I cannot imagine what it must have been like to live through this. But I see the strength in the people that did, and draw courage from that - if they made it, if they can deal with these side effects, so will I if it happens.

Ed is, of course, still with us.  Paul is not as is true of more than I would care to count.  Their words, for me, are similar to Ed, Andrew and the rest talking about gay life from 1969 onwards: perspective.  Not because they had it worse.  Simply for perspective.  Something I, as someone dating from the beginning of hiv/aids, can feel when I read a post which, to my eyes, seems completely out of date, as though no one, in these years, could possibly be going through this, a decade and more into the cocktail.  Pentamidine?  PCP?  In 1987? In 2007?

There is a trick, however, to getting along: try to not post at someone, try to not assume that you know what that person means, try to first p.m. the person and ask about a post?  Or copy a post and, beneath the copy, tell us what you feel about the issue, again not aiming it at the other person by name.  We will, trust me, get your point.  We will be allowed to balance one post against another.  But without showing disrespect to each other which can scare off others from posting here in the first place.  We need to challenge each other without baiting each other.  We need a forum with basic civility. 

Please know, finally, that this post is not aimed at anyone person here or elsewhere.  It is something which continues to bother me and which Boo's thread seems to allow to be repeated.  Best, Win



Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Can't we all just get along?
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2007, 06:42:49 PM »
I'm dying to ruin this with a really inflammatory comment.  But instead I'll just say "Can I have what she's having?"

FOAD

Love,

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

 


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