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Author Topic: Massage questions.  (Read 3067 times)

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Offline Damien

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Massage questions.
« on: February 23, 2007, 08:05:48 PM »
I was at my chiropractors office and I was referred to get a massage by their in office LMP. My first experience with the massage therapist went well. On the paper work there was a spot to check if you have HIV/AIDS and I checked it. Before she started the massage she went over all the paperwork I filled out, she expressed that she didn't know much about HIV and never had a positive client before. I told her to ask me if she had any questions, she wanted to know if she should wear gloves for her own protection. I told her that would not be needed, I don't have any body wounds. The massage went great, and my back felt much better.

Fast forward to today. I went back in for anther massage. When she started on my back something didn't feel the same. She was wearing plastic / vinyl gloves. The feeling was not the same and when she started on my legs it pulled the hair on my legs, it got worse when she tried to massage my head.

Has anyone else ever had a massage by someone wearing gloves? Is this needed? Or is she just freaked out about HIV/AIDS?

Offline egello

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2007, 08:13:14 PM »
gosh,, mortals......

i >:(

gosh, that biatch porbably went to all her ignorant friends and caused a big drama asking them what to do what to do.... i picture the scene in my head.

whats next, we can't go to regular salon?

« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 08:16:15 PM by egello »
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
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3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Ann

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2007, 08:17:49 PM »
Damien,

There is absolutely NO NEED for gloves. It's just appalling that anyone would try to massage you with gloves on. If she can't be bothered to educate herself, then she should find another profession.

Please try to find another practitioner. The ONLY reason they should ask you if you're positive or not is so they can be on the lookout for abnormalities in your skin/body, NOT so they can get the gloves out. I'm sitting here shaking my head that this should happen to anyone in this day and age. Ignorance reigns!  :-\
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2007, 08:19:16 PM »
Well, I guess she felt uncomfortable.  Though totally ignorant I suppose it's her right ultimately... I'm not sure if massage falls under the same rules as dentists in refusing treatment, etc.  I had a massage on a cruise ship last year and told the lovely nice young woman I was HIV+ on my in-take form because I was getting a facial too, and I didn't want her squeezing pores and there being any blood.  But she did not wear gloves for the massage.

Can't you find a gay masseur?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Catman

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2007, 08:46:20 PM »
  To me the girl freaked out after consulting God knows who or what. Wearing the gloves was ridiculous and unnecessary. I have a coworker who is a massage therapist and specializes on athletes. For some strange reason he's offered to give me a massage more than once but I really don't want to because he is fine and I have a feeling I might get "out of control". I also get the feeling he needs a push to get "out of the closet". Anyways, he told me that he fills out that form because it is required because if a person has cancer (for example) and if some of those cancer cells are hidden or concentrated in the lymph nodes, his massage may help the cells to spread to other parts of the body, therefore knowing this he will avoid massaging those areas. Hiv is different because it is already spread throughout our blood system. I think the girl thought it might pop out of your pores and cling to her hands. To me she was ignorant in using those gloves and that shows us how incompetent she is in understanding her job. Get her some brochures on hiv so she can learn more about this condition.
Catman

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Meow to the tree's
Meow to the end
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Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2007, 09:01:48 PM »
OMFG!!! 
Go to a different massage therapist.   

There was a time when I thought I would give up my career and just become a massage therapist.  I spent a year at school, at night, working very hard to delve deep into the world of theraputic touch.  This type of behavior is unacceptable from an LMP and you should not be subjected to this kind of behavior.  A massage should be nurturing and you should be comfortable and relaxed, glad to be there, and by the time you are done you should feel like you have entered another world. 

I am so sorry... please, there are many LMP's out there and you should experience the joy of a massage from someone who treats you like a human being.

Sorry for being so forceful.  puck
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline NycJoe

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2007, 09:27:34 PM »
I am a massage therapist and have been for 15 years and I am not surprised at her putting on gloves.  Its ridiculous..but I am not surprised.  It's amazing how naive and uneducated people can be.  I have had many friends etc ask me if I wear gloves when I am massaging and I am like..are you kidding me?  Touch is the whole point of massage! 

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2007, 11:15:18 PM »
I urge you to consider finding another therapist. Gloves are demeaning and for us hairy types, painful. Plus, how can you possibly relax when every touch is a condemnation as a dirty person?

This person was ignorant. And should be reported to her/his boss as such. Find another one. Find one with enough brain cells to comprehend the therapeutic value of actual touch, and the safety of casual contact to the uninfected.

Sometimes people just.. well, suck.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Welcome Thread

Offline HIVworker

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2007, 11:18:55 PM »
Next time give her a biohazard suit and a gasmask. Tell her it is important that she relaxes as she tries to give you a massage. Better still, tell her she could do it from another room and you can watch her from a video in the next room. Then slap her.

HIVworker - diplomat.
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2007, 11:30:21 PM »
I used to go every month or so to AID Atlanta, the South's largest ASO, for a free massage. It was fantastic until the time a new practitioner wore latex gloves.

Yes they pulled the hairs and felt cold and were inadequate for massage. But the message beyond that came through loud and clear. I don't cry easily or often, but I remember having to pull off the road on the drive home, I was crying so hard. I felt dirty and unclean. It was a godawful experience.

No one has the right to impose that sort of thing on another humanbeing. No one.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Welcome Thread

Offline tsw923

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2007, 12:05:43 AM »
OMG!!

First, I get a massage about once a month and have been going to the same place for years.  It never occurred to me to TELL them I was HIV+ once I found out in August as I don't tend to be bleeding from gashing open wounds when I go.  If I did happen to tell them and that happened I think I would have to lose my religion for a moment!  There is absolutely no need to subject yourself to that, go somewhere else, AFTER lodging a loud and well-documented complaint.

Ty
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Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2007, 01:25:35 AM »
Ick! Find another massage therapist. Period.

Melia
(who does not suffer stupidity nor ignorance gladly)
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2007, 02:23:30 AM »
I recently started getting a massage every two weeks. I too was face with the form including medications and medical conditions, including HIV. I didn't put my HIV meds and I didn't put I was HIV+. Unlike a doctor or my dentist I don't think my massage therapist needs to know. There is zero chance of transmission and I am there to relax, not educate or be "the HIV+ guy". Similarly I prefer to have a therapist with whom there is no sexual vibe because the goal is to relax.

Offline Bucko

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2007, 02:31:54 AM »
Add another voice to the choir...get a new therapist.

Brent
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Offline ajm_ldn

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2007, 07:09:14 AM »
What a ridiculous cow!  I'd seriously go back and tell her the massaged sucked and that I wanted my money back. 

Any refusal, and I'd threaten to report her and the clinic to the health authorities.  She shouldn't be allowed to practise if she is that ignorant about basic science.

That's just blatant discrimination and there is no excuse for it.  Jeez, it's 2007 for chrissakes!

Second thought, forget the money - just report her.  Or do the good ol' American thing and get a lawyer and sue her a**!  lol

Offline Catman

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2007, 11:56:58 AM »
I recently started getting a massage every two weeks. I too was face with the form including medications and medical conditions, including HIV. I didn't put my HIV meds and I didn't put I was HIV+. Unlike a doctor or my dentist I don't think my massage therapist needs to know. There is zero chance of transmission and I am there to relax, not educate or be "the HIV+ guy". Similarly I prefer to have a therapist with whom there is no sexual vibe because the goal is to relax.

 I never say my status in those forms unless I think it necessary. As a matter of fact, only my main doctors know and the nurses at the infirmary office at my job. I don't put it anywhere else. If I would bleed continuously in a dentist's office, for ex., I would tell the doctor or his assistant to clean immediately. Dentist's and nurses should be carefull anyways when treating patients hiv+ or not. Hiv is not the only disease transmitted by blood and they should know that. A massage is not a risky procedure as taking blood for labs. Much less if you don't have scratches, stitches or any other form of skin irritation. Still, I can't get over the glove thing you mentioned... :o

GSOgymrat- BECAUSE of the sexual vibe I'm not letting him put a finger on me. I don't trust myself with this one. Lol!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 12:03:18 PM by Catman »
Catman

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Meow to the tree's
Meow to the end
of this dreadful disease...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2007, 12:30:07 PM »
While it's vital to tell your dentist or dermatologist about HIV

*(not for their protection, but because issues in those arenas are most definately impacted by an impaired immune system and can dictate greater vigilance and a course of treatment vastly different than among the uninfected)*

 I see no reason to have this discussion with a massage therapist unless, say, a person has painful sores or lesions on their skin. At which time, I submit that disclosure would be a good idea.

Personally,  I used to go get massages at another local ASO, but was creeped totally out when the therapist came onto me and asked me out.

 
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline emeraldize

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2007, 04:07:05 PM »
The woman massage therapist I go to periodically was recommended to me by my clinic nuse. She knows my status and would never wear gloves. In fact, when I arrive and she is prepping, she's actually gently filing the skin on her fingertips and palms to have greater contact and impact when doing energy work.

Not knowing anything about your massage therapist's training, but having a neighbor who's been a certified teacher for years, she either missed a couple of classes or went to a school that specializes in not doing a very thorough job of educating.

If you can, find another provider. If you can't, perhaps you can encourage her to speak with colleagues who are more seasoned and able to enlighten her.

Being touched by a massage therapist can be incredibly relaxing, healing, encouraging and for many of us, can be the only touch, other than hugs, we've received in years.

Here's hoping you get what and who you need.

Offline bear60

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2007, 04:16:36 PM »
OMFG
I would like to know where you are located.  In what city?
Adding my suggestion, to everyones, that you get a new massage therapist who is comfortable with touch. If I dont like the way a massage therapist touches me....forget it.
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Damien

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2007, 04:22:46 PM »
I am going to find a different LMP.

I sent an email to my chiropractor about what happend, I will post what he responds with. My partner who has being going to this same massage therapist much longer than I have was shocked last night when I told him what happend. This therapist has been working with my doctor's office for seven years.

Do you think it would be helpful to reffer this situation to the Washington State Massage Board of Licencing? I downloaded the forms and in the form it ask what I view as an acceptable remedy for this situation, I think requiring the massage therapist to attend a four hour HIV/AIDS awareness conference that is put on for healthcare providers as being appropriate.

What are everyone's thoughts?

---
---

ps. Located in Lacey WA (Olympia area)

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2007, 05:36:28 PM »
Damien, there are hundreds of gay LMP's in Washington State.  (I lived there most of my life).  Half of them are poz themselves.  In fact, Lifelong used to have a service called In Touch which provided massage services for seriously ill HIV patients.  They still provide a list of contacts.

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline poet

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2007, 05:42:49 PM »
I did bodywork in NYC for 15 or so years.  Unfortunately I can tell you that some of the gay men who offered bodywork/massage had issues about hiv, about touch itself.  Yes, they were properly trained, but as with any job, just because you know how (from an institutional angle) to touch doesn't mean that you have a sense of touch.  There is absolutely no reason, given what a masseur does, to wear gloves for any part of a session.  The problem becomes how to work through which a practitioner why he or she doesn't get this.  Yes, you could report the practitioner, but you were not refused treatment.  You should be able to find someone on my old website: http://www.bodyworkformen.com but be warned: I have had more than one client of mine ask me, during his first phone call, if his being hiv positive would be a problem because he had been rejected by other masseurs. :( Not in the middle of nowhere, but NYC where the number of gay men with hiv should have made inroads with gay men who offer massage. Best, Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline Catman

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2007, 11:49:39 AM »
Do you think it would be helpful to reffer this situation to the Washington State Massage Board of Licencing? I downloaded the forms and in the form it ask what I view as an acceptable remedy for this situation, I think requiring the massage therapist to attend a four hour HIV/AIDS awareness conference that is put on for healthcare providers as being appropriate.

What are everyone's thoughts?

  Well if you do go back to her and she puts on those stupid gloves, I'd stop her in the moment and ask her why she is doing it. Maybe SHE had a cut or a scratch or a skin irritation that made her wear the gloves for YOUR protection. Who knows? If she has worked well during those 7 years, the doc might not want to make her loose her job. That complaint form you downloaded to send to the State Massage Board should wait until you have that talk with her or your doctor. If you get no reply, then I would send it. Attending a Hiv/ Aids Awareness Conference specifically showing the real ways of hiv transmition is a great idea. I do support you on this issue.
Catman

Meow to the birds
Meow to the tree's
Meow to the end
of this dreadful disease...

Offline water duck

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2007, 05:22:57 PM »
The definition of massage is the manipulation of soft tissues, the HUMAN touch factor is most important here, therefore , i can understand the overwhelming outcry of indignation here.

Maybe, taking a step back to consider her age and experience may shed light on her reactions. sometimes , truths are told, but they are not complete. she might have been given the wrong informations, when it comes to fear, even the most intelligent guy does have strange reactions (like when you disclose and losing friends and BF ), look i am not excusing her , having worked 7 years in a doctor's office but she could just have been given the wrong point of view.
SO how comfort are you about being poz?? maybe , you like to educate her !! still ; depends on how you feel about her, each one of us have our own individual touch, so is her touch  what you want and need ?? you must understand , this is quite personal !! maybe your partner who had used her longer could give better advice.

Look if she is someone; who is beyond understanding what HIV is all about, what will complaining to the Washington State Massage Board solved ?? maybe , just getting yourself stressed out.
It would be interesting to read the reply of your chiropractor; so sorry , you had to go through this.

Siang

PS : Mahatma Gandhi believed that we must be the change we want to see in the world.

Offline poet

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2007, 06:17:51 PM »
You know, after I posted above, I realised that a masseur's reaction is actually no different than what we have read about in the dating/disclosure threads (NOT that I am dragging them in here).  Some guys, to use the threads, 'get' hiv, have no unreasonable problems with someone being hiv positive.  Some guys freak out and move, noticeably, away.  So if this is true in, say NYC, among gay men who should, by now, know all about hiv, imagine how it can still be for those who live outside of a place like NYC, who are not gay, who perhaps have no exposure to, experience with hiv/aids in others.  So the doctor who suddenly has to leave the exam room.  So the dentist who refuses patients.  So the masseusse here.  Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2007, 06:38:15 PM »
Damien, this kind of stuff makes me want to break up the joint at the infuriating ignorance of this person.

Does your chiropractor know your HIV status? The reason I ask that is because if he does then he should be informed about the ignorance of the professional whom he referred you to.

Along with getting yourself a new professional, you can think about whether you want to let the dummy know how completely rude and unprofessional her behavior is. You might refer her to our site to read the lessons on transmission and testing.

Otherwise she might be worrying about touching bloody doorknobs or getting HIV from sitting on a toilet seat. You can tell her that toilet seats are absolutely safe UNLESS the one she's sitting on has an HIV+ guy with a hardon is sitting there under her without a condom on.

Jeeeeeezus!

Andy Velez

Offline pozinbama

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Re: Massage questions.
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2007, 07:56:25 PM »
I don't know the exact laws or rules where you are, but I'm a massage therapist. And I'm licensed here in Alabama as well  as Florida. In order to get your license to practice in either state you need to take an HIV education class. And you need to retake the class every 2 years in order to renew your license. Every massage therapist should know better.

 


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