Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 25, 2014, 07:47:12 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 631830
  • Total Topics: 47834
  • Online Today: 293
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: can cd4 rise without meds?  (Read 3301 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
can cd4 rise without meds?
« on: February 17, 2007, 01:01:51 AM »
can that happen? know anyone to whom that has happened?

can race play into how much cd4 one has?

i just don't understand how there can be "norma"l level of cd4.

what if one is from a culture where its so clean and diet so perfect that they never really needed much t cells to survive?

what if my cd4 was always in the low range all my previous life say like 300 or 400?

same question goes for testosterone level...

Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline allopathicholistic

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 01:14:13 AM »
what if my cd4 was always in the low range all my previous life say like 300 or 400?

sorry i can't be of much help here but i don't think there's a way to find out what your cd4 count was when you were hiv negative.  :-[  someone correct me if i'm wrong. but for me i was just wondering 'bout that a few weeks ago and it kinda made me a tiny sad.  :-\ unsolved mysteries...  :-[

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,881
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2007, 01:23:53 AM »
I can assure you it wasn't 14.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,382
  • 29 years positive, 56 years a pain in the butt
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2007, 08:42:35 AM »
Hey Egg,
I knew someone who was hosptialized with OIs, who had virtually no immune system, but did not have HIV.

Yep, his CD4s were in the toilet, but the virus didn't do it. Booze did. He drank himself into such a weakened condition that, if memory serves, he died, without benefit of HIV.

To answer your question, yes your CD4s can rise without meds. Mine did. In fact. mime went up and down like a yo-yo for 11 years before I started meds.

Your body has its own defenses and, at least for a while, can actually hold the virus at bay. CD4s fluctuate depending on your general health. If you catch a cold, they could drop, etc.

They also can change from hour to hour. Have labs done at 9 a.m. and another set done at 3 p.m., and you will probably get different numbers.

As has been said here quite often, keep an eye on the pattern developing, don't fret about individual numbers and take each day as it comes.

Oh, and as far as I know, there is no place on earth that is sterile enough for anyone not to need CD4s or a strong immune system.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2007, 10:53:26 AM »
so if thats the case, then couldn't i just wait and see if my cd4 will rise without the hiv meds? and in the meanwhile, just keep taking prophylaxis?
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2007, 11:13:50 AM »
If your counts were above 200 cd4 you could wait an see if your immune system recovers, but at this point your immune system is almost non existant, your viral load is incredibly high and your HIV infection is very advanced. Satistics say the average time of survival with those counts is less that 3 years. If I were you I would start meds immediately.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline Central79

  • Member
  • Posts: 527
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2007, 11:45:50 AM »
CD4 counts vary according to age, gender, whether your a smoker or not, how much rest you've had, time of day. So there are a lot of factors - but the maximum fluctuation is a 40% change, which is why CD4% is useful in interpreting sudden drops in people who have x hundred T cells.

Mark's body was able to maintain a reasonable level of CD4 for a decade before starting meds. Although billions of CD4 cells were being destroyed by HIV, his body was able to keep up.

In your case, with a CD4 of 14, you don't have the luxury of "waiting to see" if your body is going to bounce back. It's got past that stage, and with a CD4 of 14 you don't have an effective functioning immune system. Prophylaxis is okay, but not as good as being able to fight off infection yourself. If you stop meds, your CD4 will drop and viral load will climb and some infection will eventually sneak past the antibiotic cover.

Please, please continue taking your pills.

Matt x.
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,881
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2007, 12:00:26 PM »
egello, I'd like to be nice about this but that last comment is really veering into the Denialist Realm.  Girl...you have 14 cd'4s.  Take your damn pills and be quiet.  And don't eat anymore sushi and oysters for a while.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2007, 10:51:10 PM »
ok
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2007, 11:07:07 PM »
I hate to sound harsh, but egello, you sound as though you still know next to nothing about the mechanism of HIV, or even the workings of the human immune system. With 14 CD4 cells, ignorance is not something that will act in your favor.

I urge you to start at the LESSONS section here at aidsmeds. Read ALL you can. Learn about the human immune system, and about the virus attacking it. If English is difficult, find resources in your native language.

Above all, please do not assume that the information here in the forums, no matter how solid the source, is enough education for your condition. Talk to your doctor often. At least once a week. You are in dangeorus territory with 14  CD4 cells and a high viral load. All sorts of things can happen with little notice.

I am not trying to scare you, but seriously. If you KNOW what can happen, say, when you eat sushi, and choose to do so anyhow, then more power to you. But AIDS is not a forgiving virus, and stumbling blindly through risky situations without understanding WHY they are risky will kill you.

It's up to you to learn for yourself. I submit that with such a compromised immune system, you might not have the luxury of trial and error.

But it is your life.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2007, 12:21:16 AM »
hey

thanks for all your concerns, the problem is not whether i read those materials or not (which i have), the problem is all the dissident ligteratures i've read. they keep creeping into my mind and keeps me doubting my orthordox options. i mean in reality, how can you REALLY turst something unless you have seen it with your own eyes and have experimented it with your own mind?

as i said in my other posts, those dissident materials got EVERYTHING covered. they can argue against every aspect of orthodox HIV science such as even existence of hiv and the reason why the HAART might seem like its working and various other things we hold to be the truth.

its hard to give up something you ahave believed in so sincerely especially when it comes to life or death situation. however, since there so many of you guys who has been hiv positive for so long and are on HAART, i guess i trust this more than anything else.

i do talk to my doctor frequently, not so much so lately becaues i have been feeling well. he is extremely helpful and he is also long term survivor after being diagonosed with aids in 91, and he actually looks really good.

you guys are just so awesome, so caring...
however, you know, some dissidents will think that people on this forum probably gets paid by the pharma companies to push the unnecessary drugs or some other conspiracy theory like that.

thanks
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,881
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2007, 12:44:07 AM »
People actually read dissident literature?  (besides Jeff Palmer?)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2007, 12:49:20 AM »
 I am sorry you are still struggling with the dissident literature. I certainly hope it does not take a permanently incapacitating infection to clarify you on these matters, but it just might.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2007, 01:24:58 AM »
philly,,,

who are these hunky guys that keeps gracing your avatar pics?
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,881
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2007, 01:36:37 AM »
I'm celebrating the 40th Anniversary of Colt Studios this month.  Lately it's been Hank Ditmar, one of my earliest crushes.  Isn't he amazing?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,382
  • 29 years positive, 56 years a pain in the butt
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2007, 06:16:28 PM »
Hey Egello,
I don't want you to think that I was supporting or advocating your not taking meds. With 14 T cells and a high viral load, the time has come and is long gone when you had the luxury of waiting to see what will happen.

Denialists have been around since the virus first hit. Of course, these you are reading now are a new crop, the older ones are all dead.

I would only echo what Philly said:

egello, I'd like to be nice about this but that last comment is really veering into the Denialist Realm.  Girl...you have 14 cd'4s.  Take your damn pills and be quiet.  And don't eat anymore sushi and oysters for a while.

Honey, I have someone right now who is in your shoes, except he isn't doing very well. He jacked around with just about every denialist theory and every half-baked sham cure there was. Now he has multiple OIs, lesions on his body and is probably sleeping in his own feces right now because he can't control his bowels and, to date, has refused to wear Depends.

You have to make up your own mind, but don't think believing it isn't so will change anything.

HUGS,

Mark

(Who is still taking the same regimen he began in May 1996 and doesn't regret it one iota.)
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,881
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2007, 07:17:44 PM »
Well, personally I guess I never had to deal with the denialist stuff.  I was diagnosed too early -- the Duesberg book didn't come out until '96 and I guess this all caught on in the late 90's.  To be honest I thought it had been so severely debunked that nobody but some deadenders still held on to it.  Am I being naive here and living in a bubble?  How prevalent is it nowadays?

I recall about five years ago or so Jeff Palmer, well known ex-Exclusive Falcon video star was constantly posting on the Atkol forum trumpetting the greater glories of AZT being poison blah blah blah.  I think he's still alive though, and making bareback movies.  I realize English was his 2nd language (he's from Argnetina) but I was convinced he also was mentally ill.

Anway, how much currency are these "theories" give amongst gay men these days.  I'm just curious?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline allopathicholistic

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2007, 09:48:17 PM »
Anway, how much currency are these "theories" give amongst gay men these days.  I'm just curious?

People "hear what they wanna hear". Bareback addicts are no different

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,881
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2007, 12:00:36 AM »
People "hear what they wanna hear". Bareback addicts are no different

Just wondering how people encounter the information -- teh intranets I suppose?  My diagnosis was pre-internet, so I know little about how prevalent this subject is among gay men, positive or negative.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2007, 12:36:05 AM »
well, on the internet, if you type in things like "natural cure for aids" "conspiracy theory of aids" "althernative ways to treat AIDS" "is aids real" things like that, you will easily come across at least one of the dissident website, and from then on, you can discover more.

there are also tons of books published as well.

the informatkions are everywhere.

for those Long term survivors,,, they can go on saying that hiv doesn't exist and still be fine for 10-20 years, and they are what the dissidents look up to as an example.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline RevMC

  • Member
  • Posts: 223
  • It's me!
    • Psychic AwakeningSchool.com
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2007, 05:58:54 PM »
My t-cells back in 1988 (March 2 1988 when I first found out) was only 235.  I was given 2 yrs to live and tried AZT.  Too many problems so quit.  T-cells still around 235, some fluctuations but only mild which is normal.

Tried Zerit and Epivir back 10 yrs ago, t-cells went up to the mid 300's then back down to 235 area, besides not being able to afford the meds I figured they weren't helping anyway if my counts a few months after starting the meds went back down to where they were before.

My counts are still fluctuating but in November 2006 my t-cells went down to 200.  They have gone back up a bit and because I'm been with the same doctor for over 2 years and have fluctuated for those 2 years doc said I could still stay off the meds.  My body it seems can keep the virus in check.

BUT . . . I've decided to go on meds just to give my body a boost and some extra help in fighting this disease.  (The one good thing this government has done Medicare D has been a blessing.)

With only 14 t-cells hon, you definitely need the meds like everyone else is saying.  It seems that 200 is the magic number, you go below and you run the risk of O.I.'s  You can get some O.I.'s above 200 but it is rare.  I haven't been and still am not on any preventative meds like Bactrum.  UNFORTUNATELY . . . even if your counts go up over 200 your immune system has been weekend where deciding to take a drug holiday might be a bad thing to do.

Stay away from raw meat (unless it's attached to a warm body) and even though you are feeling good, still talk to your doctor about your concerns.

I am a rare breed.  I wish there was a study close by to have my blood tested to see why after all these years I'm so stable.  Now I'm on meds, don't think anyone would be interested.

Blessings to you on a steady increase of your t-cells and a lowering of your virul load.

Love and Light,

Rev. Michael
Part of my story: "Sale Of A Lifetime" POZ December 2003
http://www.poz.com/articles/172_752.shtml

Started on Truvada and Viramune on 2/15/07

Jan 8, 2007   t-cells 215  Viral Load 10,000  24%
March 26'th  T-cells 306   Viral Load  UNDETECTABLE
June 2007 t-cells 375 Viral Load UNDETECTABLE
August 2007 t-cells 290 Viral Load UNDETECTABLE



Love and Light and Reiki sent your way,
Rev. Michae

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: can cd4 rise without meds?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2007, 12:17:34 AM »
thanks,, i am really good at taking my meds....
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.