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Author Topic: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood  (Read 4877 times)

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Offline Optimistic

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HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« on: February 16, 2007, 05:22:22 PM »
12/06 (Atripla): cd4 - 260; cd% - 33%; vl - 169
1/07 (Atripla): cd4 - 267; cd% - 38.1%; vl - 132
4/07 (Atripla): cd4 - 373; cd% - 33.9%; vl - <50
7/07 (Atripla); cd4 - 287; cd% - 35.8%; vl - <50
9/07 (Atripla); cd4 - 356; cd% - 39.5%; vl - <50
12/07 (Atripla); cd4 - 517

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2007, 05:37:19 PM »
This has come up before Justin, and I will give you the same response; what good is that when there are plenty of other places that the virus is at in the body?  So your blood is without the virus but every other part of your body has it!
In fact from my understanding the blood is one of the areas with the least amount of viral load, unlike organs.
Welcome to the world of HIV. Well at least we might be able to give blood.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 05:40:01 PM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline HIVworker

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2007, 07:38:40 PM »
It would also be in the cells in the blood too. So you wouldn't be able to get rid of the virus even from the blood.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline Central79

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 06:12:40 PM »
Totally - what good is it going to do just to filter out free virus from the blood? Can't figure out why this got so much coverage...
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline bimazek

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2007, 12:19:26 AM »
why nano is important... anything nano means that the size of the product is so small that it is like an atom or molecule, perfect in that they do not wear out or break, when is last time you saw oxygen wear out or gold for that matter, the point is that nano, anything produced at these tiny scales is perfect in many ways

a car made of nano would never wear out, that is a long was away, but a filter

a filter that doesnt leak or crack

that can handle large fast flow, no more 5 hours on dialysis machine, how about 10min instead, that is a breakthrough

why it is important in hiv, and i am guessing here, is with these kind of flow rates a small implant could be put in a vein or even capillary and it would filter out the hiv and then once a month or once a year you go to get the filter taken out

there would be enough taken out of blood to make a big difference, because everythign goes in and out of blood

the part i do not get is

how does it filter hiv or any virus for that matter but not a bigger thing like a red blood cell

seems like it would filter it all, but it must be the shape of the mesh or something

i think it is like ten years away from being mass produced

but nano is huge and has tens of billions... mostly because the military industrial complex want machines that kill that are perfect and powerful, and such

i estimate that just filtering from blood would take out enough to give extended life span and improved health, even if it added 20 or 50% life span on top of haart that is basically full lifespan

imho

it is big deal
this nano but probably a few years off
from getting out of research

Offline Central79

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2007, 08:23:20 AM »
Knowing my luck my implanted nano filter would embolise straight to my brain. Nano-stroke!
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline HIVworker

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  • HIV researcher
Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2007, 08:30:37 PM »
Even if you could get rid of the virus from the blood, by the time you have put the band-aid on the patients arm, the virus would have made a million copies. It's also a mistake to believe that all the virus ends up in the blood and if you drain that bath, you will eventually drain the virus from the body. In my opinion this just won't work.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline bimazek

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2007, 04:53:59 AM »

I respectfully disagree with HIVworker because, as a engineer and scientist i actually sat down and did the math.  There are also oxford univ. studies and computer advanced math models that i have read,

Even at 50k VL in a human body with 5 liters of blood, that means that in all the blood of one body

THE ENTIRE MASS OR WEIGHT OF ALL THE HIV IN ALL THE BLOOD is in the range of

1/10 to 1/100 of a milligram  (i have to find my notes on the calculation to give exact number)

1/100 of one milligram

it would not be so technically difficult to filter out that amount even on a daily basis and change the filter every
week or month.

this is five to ten years away in any case

5 liters of blood in human body

55,000 virus particles in each one milliliter of blood, each virus has a weight or mass of 10x-7 ( i have to find my notes for exact number)

and on haart it is even easier because you reduce the amount by a factor of one thousand

the entire size of all hiv in blood is

tiny... think of a wart, a small wart on the skin, if you slice it up into infinately small parts and all these parts lived in blood stream, as microscopic infinately small mini warts, and you change the skin cell a wart infects to the cd4 cell that the hiv virus particle infects then you have a good model for virus in blood, the producers are in the gut mostly, but again it would be very small mass or size

the issue is that the

T cell homing signal (and this is new in 2006 2007 discovered) the chemical signal that tells the hiv that its work is done and to return to the node and self distruct, because the cd4 cells work is done, that is the disease,
the infected cd4 cells ARE NOT THE ONES DYING, and only one in one million CD4 cells are even infected with HIV, even with medium high viral loads

see my posts on here re.  gut, homing, 
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7700.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7845.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8215.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7935.0

we have been conditioned to think that hiv is invincable because of years of time needed to learn how it works

now in last 14 months or so

they understand exactly

why it is suppressed in monkeys and cats and many animals naturally... TRIM5 alpha protein
where and why the cd4 cells die... in the node caused by a homing signal
why the cd8 cells dont do their job... because the pd-1 puts the cd8 to sleep and there are antibodies to start this up again


facts

one in one million cd4 is infected

the total mass of hiv at 55k viral load is in the hundredths of milligram



Offline alisenjafi

  • Member
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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 08:00:35 PM »
why nano is important... anything nano means that the size of the product is so small that it is like an atom or molecule, perfect in that they do not wear out or break, when is last time you saw oxygen wear out or gold for that matter, the point is that nano, anything produced at these tiny scales is perfect in many ways

a car made of nano would never wear out, that is a long was away, but a filter

a filter that doesn't leak or crack

that can handle large fast flow, no more 5 hours on dialysis machine, how about 10min instead, that is a breakthrough

why it is important in hiv, and i am guessing here, is with these kind of flow rates a small implant could be put in a vein or even capillary and it would filter out the hiv and then once a month or once a year you go to get the filter taken out

there would be enough taken out of blood to make a big difference, because everything goes in and out of blood

the part i do not get is

how does it filter hiv or any virus for that matter but not a bigger thing like a red blood cell

seems like it would filter it all, but it must be the shape of the mesh or something

i think it is like ten years away from being mass produced

but nano is huge and has tens of billions... mostly because the military industrial complex want machines that kill that are perfect and powerful, and such

i estimate that just filtering from blood would take out enough to give extended life span and improved health, even if it added 20 or 50% life span on top of haart that is basically full lifespan

imho

it is big deal
this nano but probably a few years off
from getting out of research


I am even more confused by this then the "Stella stories". HIV is in your gut, in your kidneys - in every organ- didn't you read about the Italian mishap? So cleaning your blood is still going to leave you with an infected body.  Oxygen and gold are elements Gee if we are going to get hypothetical how about nano body parts to replace the infected ones. And since we are on to science friction, why not a miniature submarine ala Fantastic Voyage to blast the little buggers?
Is this what the rest of the Year of the Pig is going to be like?
Where can I get my brain filtered?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 08:03:49 PM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline bimazek

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  • Posts: 781
Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 12:15:05 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanomedicine

Nanomedicine TODAY
Cancer
Nanoparticles of cadmium selenide (quantum dots) glow when exposed to ultraviolet light. When injected, they seep into cancer tumors. The surgeon can see the glowing tumor, and use it as a guide for more accurate tumor removal. Sensor test chips containing thousands of nanowires, able to detect proteins and other biomarkers left behind by cancer cells, could enable the detection and diagnosis of cancer in the early stages from a few drops of a patients blood. [1]

Researchers at Rice University under Prof. Jennifer West, have demonstrated the use of 120nm diameter nanoshells coated with gold to kill cancer tumors in mice. The nanoshells can be targetted to bond to cancerous cells by conjugating antibodies or peptides to the nanoshell surface. By irradiating the area of the tumor with an infrared laser, which passes through flesh without heating it, the gold is heated sufficiently to cause death to the cancer cells [2].

One scientist, University of Michiganís James Baker, believes he has discovered a highly efficient and successful way of delivering cancer-treatment drugs that is less harmful to the surrounding body. Baker has developed a nanotechnology that can locate and then eliminate cancerous cells. He looks at a molecule called a dendrimer. This molecule has over a hundred hooks on it that allow it to attach to cells in the body for a variety of purposes. Baker then attaches folic-acid to a few of the hooks (folic-acid, being a vitamin, is recepted by cells in the body). Cancer cells have more vitamin receptors than normal cells, so Baker's vitamin-laden dendrimer will be absorbed by the cancer cell. To the rest of the hooks on the dendrimer, Baker places anti-cancer drugs that will be absorbed with the dendrimer into the cancer cell, thereby delivering the cancer drug to the cancer cell and nowhere else (Bullis 2006).

Surgery   At Rice University, a flesh welder is used to fuse two pieces of chicken meat into a single piece. The two pieces of chicken are placed together touching. A greenish liquid containing gold-coated nanoshells is dribbled along the seam. An infrared laser is traced along the seam, causing the two side to weld together. This could solve the difficulties and blood leaks caused when the surgeon tries to restitch the arteries he/she has cut during a kidney or heart transplant. The flesh welder could meld the artery into a perfect seal.

 Nanorobots    The somewhat speculative claims about the possibility of using nanorobots in medicine, advocates say, would totally change the world of medicine once it is realised. Nanomedicine would make use of these nanorobots, introduced into the body, to repair or detect damages and infections. A typical blood borne medical nanorobot would be between 0.5-3 micrometres in size, because that is the maximum size possible due to capillary passage requirement. Carbon would be the primary element used to build these nanorobots due to the inherent strength and other characteristics of some forms of carbon (diamond/fullerene composites). Cancer can be treated very effectively, according to nanomedicine advocates. Nanorobots could counter the problem of identifying and isolating cancer cells as they could be introduced into the blood stream. These nanorobots would search out cancer affected cells using certain molecular markers. Medical nanorobots would then destroy these cells, and only these cells. Nanomedicines could be a very helpful and hopeful theraphy for patients, since current treatments like radiation therapy and chemotherapy often end up destroying more healthy cells than cancerous ones. From this point of view, it provides a non-depressed therapy for cancer patients. Nanorobots could also be useful in treating vascular disease[3], physical trauma [4], and even biological aging.

many other nanomedicine breakthroughs already discovered, not science fiction

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Nanomedicine+breakthrough&btnG=Google+Search

but still 5-10 maybe 15 years away IMHO

Offline HIVworker

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  • HIV researcher
Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 01:01:49 AM »
I have to admit that I don't read long copied/pasted e-mails - especially if the source is also given. Just my opinion.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline J220

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2007, 03:45:26 AM »
It is all speculation whether this filtering will work or not, but still, I think any step forward is exactly that, forward. Even if it doesn't clear all virus from the body, there may yet be useful applications to this technology. J.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 03:59:09 AM by J220 »
"Hope is my philosophy
Just needs days in which to be
Love of Life means hope for me
Born on a New Day" - John David

Offline alisenjafi

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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2007, 07:52:01 AM »
I don't get the comparison- looking for a growth is one thing, the virus is everywhere in my body. Unless the technology of nanos can be used to block virus from replicating I am not sure what other application it would have. You can't cut out AIDS. The question then is what happens to all those nanos once they rid the virus- will the self distruct? Will the take over like an alien?
Sorry if this reads strong, I am not out to get the messenger, just posting what I think about the nano
And how does a car made from nanos work?
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline J220

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2007, 03:11:37 PM »
Oh, I know nothing about nanotechnology, as far as my post is concerned I am commenting strictly on the filtering. To reiterate my point, I think that there still so much unknown about the virus (although we seem to be deciphering more daily) that who knows, maybe this filtering technology will have a benefit. J.
"Hope is my philosophy
Just needs days in which to be
Love of Life means hope for me
Born on a New Day" - John David

Offline bimazek

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2007, 09:46:03 PM »

many animals have their own version of hiv, which is extremely close to human hiv, the difference is the animals body represses the virus, i call that a cure,  the animal has no sickness no disease, and the animals immune system represses it completely, the virus is still in the body and in many organs, so i do not think it is such a worrisome thing for a "cure" or repressing the virus that it is in every organ as one poster mentions, they have just discovered why and it is a protein called trim5-alpha

so cats in usa about 9% have FIV, gorillas, monkey, macques, hyenas in africa etc, and their bodies take care of it
scientists have just discovered why


Offline HIVworker

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  • HIV researcher
Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2007, 11:20:50 PM »
That's not strictly true. Some animals can be infected with SIV and have no consequences at all but retain high viral loads. I am not sure that this case is due to Trim5 but rather the specifics of the immune system.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 12:01:37 AM by HIVworker »
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2007, 12:00:15 AM »
I know chimps almost always shake off HIV infection. Only a scant few have ever gotten sick and died.

I am fortunate in that my best friend has lots of contact with the Yerkes Primate center. Until two months ago, he worked there part time when he wasn't at the zoo. I still get all the cool emails about simians/primates and HIV/SHIV/SIV research.

Thing is, how do they filter HIV from the brain, lymph nodes, organs and other places?

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Welcome Thread

Offline HIVworker

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2007, 12:38:07 AM »
To reply specifically to bimazek's comments about filtering. You say that what if a person had a viral load of 50,000K then the mass would be....etc.

The viral load test analyzes only the virus in the blood - and it isn't likely to all be free in the blood so how would you filter that? Secondly the virus is being produced by cells and you can't filter these out...some of the cells have a longer half-life.

It doesn't matter what math model you have applied, you might be able to filter out a significant amount of virus from the blood in the absence of HAART but you have to get rid of all of them or infection would restart and get back to the levels before within 2-4 weeks. 2-4 weeks is based on how long it takes the virus to grow to a significant number within the body after infection. Either way you cut it, you couldn't remove enough virus from the blood to make such a technique have a significant impact on HIV. You can't get rid of latent cells within the blood nor can you get rid of cells/virus that are not freely distributed in the blood. Fancy Oxford math model or not. I just don't see how that would work.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline antibody

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Re: HIV may one day be filtered from the blood
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2007, 06:44:12 PM »
the only thing i see it good for is blood transfusions. i don't think it will ever be used to treat or cure hiv the only thing it's good for is cleaning blood before putting in a patient either positive or not the blood we are given should be a disease free as possible.
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