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Author Topic: controversial - who was infected in an open relationship? (or by cheating)  (Read 8261 times)

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Offline DingoBoi

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Yes, I know this topic is highly controversial.. and I have my own issues with it which I'll state now.

I detest open relationships and cheaters disgust me even more.

Ok.. now that THAT is out of the way (and yes i'm still bitter), let's talk about this.

Participation is purely voluntary.  I don't require anyone to post here if they are uncomfortable doing so.

Maybe you can educate me on why you needed/wanted to cheat.

I do think sometimes 'morals' are lacking in the gay community especially.  The fuck anything, anytime attitude just, well, makes me want to vomit.

I'm not all high and mighty mind you.  I cheated on my first b/f of 2.5 years, but only for emotional gratification.   I loved him, but I needed someone there, sex was the wrong way to go about it, but it gave me a dose to the drug I craved most:   (artificial) intimacy.

for reference, I believe i was infected by a random trick while unattached.

Some of this post comes from the fact that I want a b/f so badly, a true real relationship... I don't understand why people are in a relationship if they want to fuck around...and I don't want to be fucked around on.

For me, if you are dating me and want to fuck somebody else, that's fine... but break up with me first.

your opinions or thoughts?


Offline cubbybear

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Hey Bailey,

I think pretty much the same as you do on this.  I was lead to believe my first (an ex partner) of 13 years started cheating after about 5 years in, though he recently told me it was from day one.  How nice I thought, but better late in telling me than never.

I don't think my current partner (or what ever he is right now) has cheated, then again, he does like to omit the truth sometimes, so you never know.

I pretty much detest cheating, it's not something I do, and I'm happiest in a monogamous relationship, especially one where feelings aren't so one sided.  I wasn't infected by a cheating partner, I was infected by some reckless behaviour inbetween partners of my own design.

Cheers
Matt
There's a bear in there!
Positive since 2000
Diagnosed 17/9/2005 CD4 35 VL 293,000
Meds 23/9/2005 Sustiva/Truvada
Currently CD4 232 VL Undetectable

Offline DingoBoi

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i'm gonna qualify this thread by posting again :P  merely to raise my post count..

.. but also to state that this is not a thread to bash people in.   I don't like that things like this occur but they do and I want to understand more about why.

I stated a strong opinion, and I don't want to scare people off from responding because of t hat.  

Understanding is the next step to resolution.

Bailey (who still deeply wonders why his ex b/f couldn't give him the emotional love he needed)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Monogamy is for limp wristed lesbigay moderate hetero-wannabe's. True Queers delight and revel in slutty open relationships.

MtD
(Who has spoken)

Offline DingoBoi

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i appreciate your response matty, but this is not the thread for attempted humor.... which failed.  (which i am learning also)


Offline Matty the Damned

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i appreciate your response matty, but this is not the thread for attempted humor.... which failed.  (which i am learning also)



It wasn't an attempt at humour. It's my quite seriously considered position on the first part of your original thread. The other bit, I'll post later.

When it suits me.

MtD

Offline DingoBoi

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don't bother matty.  this discussion is for grown ups.  please do not sidetrack or derail this serious topic.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 01:27:36 AM by DingoBoi »

Offline Teresa

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Since im HIV- i wasnt infected by my hubbys cheating. But to be cheated on has to be the most painful thing i have gone thru. THe pain is almost unbearable. This is the man that is suppose to love me. How can u say u love someone then do that too them. To say it was just for the sex is the biggest cop out there is. I dont understand it either. And im trying to the best i can. To find out 1 week hes HIV+ and then find out 2 weeks later that he cheated on you. Thats alot to deal with at once.

Will be interested in the replies of the ones that cheated.

Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline DingoBoi

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well, i'll be the first to state why i cheated on my boyfriend who i dearly and truly loved.

it's only fair since i started this I started this thread.

I'm an addict.  an emotional addict.    I had dated him for 2.5 years.  I loved him dearly, but he emotionally ignored me very much towards the end of our relationship.    Which he had always done, just not as badly.

I'm a very emotional person when it comes to relationships and believe in committment when one gives themselves to another person.

he became detached... probably because he was planning on breaking up with me anyways.... over a course of a few months.

I just wanted somebody there... some form of intimacy.... sex was the wrong way to go about it.. but it is what it is.   I had a sliver of connection with somebody and that dulled the pain i was feeling.   Some might think  that's a highly romanticized version of 'i was drunk off my ass at the bar and blew somebody in the bathroom'..

which also would be an accurate statement.... but the reason behind why i blew that guy in the bathroom is much more complex.... perhaps more complex than some people can ascertain.

the difference being.. even drunk off my ass i wouldn'tve blown anybody except my b/f if he was meeting my emotional needs.


Offline Jeffreyj

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Why didn't you break up with him before the bathroom thingy? I mean you said in your first post that cheaters disgust you???
Positive since 1985

Offline DingoBoi

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it wasn't a willful thing like many people who do cheat... it was implulsive, at a club and drunk.

it was oral and no risk of infection. 

to give you a bit of background, he was a rock star in our local area.... being out with him was like being ignored and hated by everybody.

both him and the band and everybody else who had any clue what was going on.

nobody liked me.... most thought i turned him gay.  i didn't

you can not be obvious but not be OBVIOUS in expressing affection

That wore on me after a while.

Hell, when your b/f forgets to even put you on the guest list... .... well...

there's alotta issues there... but that wasn't really the question as i didn't get infected by him.

but it is kinda prompted by him because if he didn't break up with me I wouldn't have gone into an emotional turmoil that led me here.

I don't blame him.  That's not the point.

I just seek understanding.




Offline Teresa

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My point of view is there is NOTHING and i mean NOTHING that can justify cheating in a relationship.
But that is just my opinion.

Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline bobik

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I have an open relationship. We sexually have different needs but we love each other so we are together and have sex with others. That is the reason why we do it that way.

I had an accident on one of my adventures. Trying to be safe turned out not to be safe enough.

Coen
Coen Honig at Facebook

jerry

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Cheating is one way to get yourself put out the door.

I found that out the hard way also. Dated and lived with a guy for four months and we finally went out and went to Raliegh NC. Well we meet up with his friends at a bar and the whole time there I was the third heel.

He wanted to dance with other guys there and totally left we alone for three hours. Then I caught him in the bathroom going down on some guy.

Also the whole time we were at his friends house we couldn't sleep in the same bed,  I got to sleep on the sofa he got the guest room. I can say after that exeperience it was a long ride home, and after we got to our place I packed all my stuff up and moved out. So when it comes to a strong relationship with someone and you agree together that you like to date other people is so damn wrong.

Offline Cliff

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I think people (most people) don't intentionally go into a relationship expecting to cheat.  I also don't think that people, (most people), who cheat in a relationship, do it because they don't respect or want their relationship.  There are so many different reasons that lead someone to having an affair that it is unfair to boil it down to the usual conclusion that Person A cheated (he's a bad person) and Person B was cheated on (he's a victim).  Things happen that can push someone towards being with another person outside of their relationship.  Some of those factors are internal (sex attraction, falling in love with someone else, self-image issues) but some of those factors are also external and often involved the other person in the relationship (too much hurt and resentment from their partner, sexual boredom or incompatibility issues, punishing the other person for wronged behavior, need to feel desired/attention seeking).

Anyone can be unfaithful, even those who believe in monogamy.  I don't think it's a gay issue (though it's probably doesn't help that society treats gay orientation as deviant so well what could you possibly expect from it).  Straight folks cheat in very high numbers too. 

I don't think you can commit to monogamy.  That's not to say that I believe everyone cheats.  But I do think that high enough percentage of people do that the issue can't simply be solved by trying to find that person who you THINK won't cheat or the person who proclaims to be faithful, (no doubt those people probably tend to be the first ones to look elsewhere).

It's really about being able to communicate and being completely honest with your partner.  It's usually not being able to openly communicate with your partner that either leads to affairs or makes the situation worse.
I find that the times that I've wanted to be in a relationship, badly, it was for the wrong reasons.  Those reasons usually lead me to more pain and disappointment.  So Bailey, my advice to you is:

-  Don't sell yourself short.  Wanting a boyfriend because you want to end the loneliness, (we have all been there), or because you want to feel special or be close to someone, will more than likely just cause you to have a very short relationship.  You will expect too much from the other person and you'll just end up scaring them away (or pushing them away, to fulfill that self-fullfilling prophecy that men will hurt you).

- Don't jump into a relationship to ignore your own problems.  Being in a relationship won't make your problems go away, all you do is add someones elses problem to the equation.

Offline Ann

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Hey Bailey, interesting - and yes, controversial - subject.

I was infected by a partner who I knew was having sex with other people - but I chose to turn a blind eye. That is a different subject though, but I can give you some insight to my (ex) partner's behaviour.

The first long-term relationship he had was with a woman he loved dearly. She cheated on him (several times and with several different men) and he was devastated. After that he had serious trust issues. I think he had sex outside our relationship as a defense mechanism - cheat before you get cheated on. I discovered that he fully expected me to be doing the same thing. (I wasn't, except when we were on one of our many breaks, which isn't really cheating.)

I also think that he found having other women be attracted to him and willing to have sex with him to be a way of validating his self-worth and self-esteem. When he found out that his first love was cheating on him he felt rejected, so anytime a woman responded to his flirting, he had to take it to the ultimate conclusion as concrete proof that he wasn't being rejected.

I think this might be behind a lot of cases of cheating - self-esteem issues and not being able to say no to someone who is showing an interest. Or going after someone as a way of validating desirability. In other words, the person doesn't really believe that they are likable and desirable so they have to find people who will prove it for them. Well, that's my theory anyway.

As for open relationships, that's something completely different and decided and agreed upon by both people in the partnership. That is their choice and if it works for them, then I'm all for it. I'm only against open relationships when it is forced on one person through threats of abandonment by the other if there isn't agreement to the arrangement. I've seen that happen. But a true open relationship - more power to that couple.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Poz Brit

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Cheating is not just a Gay thing, I am a straight guy, who is in a relationship approaching seven years, my partner is NEG. I was alone and celibate for two years prior and in a thirteen year relation ship before that, where she cheated many times. I also dislike cheats as it’s probably her cheating that has qualified by position here, not what you would expect for trust and loyalty,
Open relationships, if both parties are in full agreement, is totally the concern of that couple, and should not merit comment from me or any one else, my beliefs are in monogamy and I would not welcome criticism on it, its my choice, who’s to say what is right or wrong.
Sex is a bodily pleasure, to me love is the emotion, if the two can be got together it’s the best feeling ever, and makes for passion and fulfilment in the relationship. I do think it possible to love someone with out having sex with them, as it is to have sex with out any emotion, just for self gratification.
These days I need to give and receive love, emotion and caring and find sex a natural and more enjoyable experience. In my late teens to mid twenties, I just needed sex, so stayed single, I enjoyed my sexed up booze filled life, but now in these late fifties, love and emotion is fore most.
We are all different and see life differently, I don’t think I could say you are right, Bailey, as I also don’t see where Matty is wrong, it’s just individual choice.

John(UK)   

Offline allopathicholistic

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why people are in a relationship if they want to fuck around...

selfishness, neediness, fear issues, insanity issues, self-loathing, carnal issues, internal rage, absence of skills (e.g. verbal communication). Cliff's 1st paragraph is wow, very accurate (thanks Cliff)

For me, if you are dating me and want to fuck somebody else, that's fine... but break up with me first.

that should be the logic. for me, i was selfish and not exactly respectful. in short, i didn't act with integrity. it might boomerang me in the butt. karma's a B-yotch. i think i wanted someone more "compatible" whatever the hell that means - and the physical too - let's not forget about that part. bottom line, it was plain-out insanity and confusion - not an excuse, just the truth. a fucking mess to be quite honest. i wanted my cake, and lots of other different cakes, and eat them all

but in your case, should you ever (God forbid) run into another badboy with issues, your red flags will be flyin' all over the place!  >:(  >:(  >:(  and be strong in yourself e.g. you're smart, emotional, cute/fit, funny, charming, interesting, significant - y'know, all that and a bag of chips

anyway - it wasn't an open relationship. and i wasn't infected by cheating. i was infected during my intense reckless era (1998-1999)

and when i said selfishness, neediness, fear, insanity, self-loathing, carnal issues, internal rage, inabilities in communication - yeah, that was all ME from 2000-2004 (one for the textbooks i guess, people need to own up to their wicked ways)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 09:07:53 AM by allopathicholistic »

Offline fearless

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Monogamy is a social construct that has developed over the centuries and not a concept that all cultures accept or practice.
Our biology, genetics and evolution dictate that we have multiple partners so as to increase genetic diversity to ensure survival of the species.
Thus a conflict exists between what society dictates and our biology. For some it is easy to reconcile this conflict, or others it is not. It is also why open relationships are more readily accepted in gay culture - as 'outcasts' in society we have questioned and challenged its dictates.

As someone who has been cheated on, it was not the fact that he was having sex outside the relationship that hurt, but the fact that he did not trust me or the relationship enough to discuss it first. Once that trust is broken it is very hard to recapture and in my case it lead to a slow but steady demise of the relationship.

but it is kinda prompted by him because if he didn't break up with me I wouldn't have gone into an emotional turmoil that led me here.

Dingo, I have these same thoughts too sometimes but I believe they are based in self pity and you need to try and put them behind you in order to move on. Not easy, I know. I still think that way sometimes too, but only when I'm feeling sorry for myself.

Steve
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline GSOgymrat

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Yes, I know this topic is highly controversial.. and I have my own issues with it which I'll state now.

I detest open relationships and cheaters disgust me even more.

Ok.. now that THAT is out of the way (and yes i'm still bitter), let's talk about this.

Not exactly the best way to get people to open up in a forum. As far as the question "who was infected in an open relationship"-- not me. I attribute my infection to being in closed relationships and getting complacent. When I was single and dating I was very careful and very safe. In the relationship previous to my current one we both got tested, waited 6 months, got tested again and stopped using condoms. Three months after that relationship ended I got in my current relationship (which I swore I wouldn't do because I really wanted to be single for a while, but when you find "the one" what are you gonna do). We were together for several months playing safe and I had discussed getting tested for HIV but he put it off for reasons I found understandable. We were vacationing at a resort in Washington state and everything was perfect. We exploring an abandoned gold mine, got caught up in the moment and didn't use the condoms. The next day I told him that was a big mistake and we needed to get tested. As they say, it only takes once. He tested positive and I tested "indeterminate", which I didn't even know was a option. In a couple of weeks, got tested again and again it was indeterminate. We waited 3 weeks and then I tested positive-- apparently I was too newly infected to show a positive result. If I had not been been accustom to condomless sex in my previous relationship and had not been in a serious relationship at the time I don't think I would have slipped up.

Another point I would like to mention is that different couples draw the line in different places when it comes to sex and intimacy. Is it "cheating" if both couples agree to it? Is a mutually agreed upon three-way cheating? Is it okay to check out other men if you are in a relationship? Is it okay to have gay male friends? Is it okay to go to a gay bar as a couple? Is it okay to go to a gay bar alone? Is it okay to talk to an ex? Is it okay to hug an ex? Is it okay to go visit an ex without your partner? Is it okay to watch a porno movie? Is it okay to masturbate without him? Is it okay to discuss your sex life with a close friend? Is it okay to discuss details of your relationship in a blog? Is it okay to have a sex chat with a stranger on-line?

Couples have to decide where they are going to draw the line and not everyone is going to agree where that line is going to be.

Offline ademas

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I don't know who infected me, although I suspect it was my first lover in 1980-81. 
We were very young (22 and 17, although I didn't know he was 17 until he told me on his 18th birthday...), but I suspect he brought HIV into the relationship.  He had run away from home to San Francisco at 14, and I was his 3rd relationship.  He was my first.)
There was cheating, and some experimentation...and it didn't go well. 
In our defense, it was 1980-81, and we were very young.  AIDS was with us, but no one knew of it yet.
We remained close friends until his death in '93 at the age of 29.
All this is neither here nor there...and age has mellowed me a bit.
Today, I would much prefer an open relationshio to no relationship, or one where there is cheating and lying.

Offline David_CA

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Interesting topic!  I don't consider our (my partner and my) relationship to be open.  He's the one that I love and if I COULD ONLY have sex with ONE person, it would be him.  But I can have sex with more than one person, and so can he.  It doesn't reduce the love I have for him.  Cheating ruins many relationships.  It's not just the sex act that does the damage.  The secrecy and dishonesty are what undermine the relationship.  We 'ask' permission to have sex with another person.  We don't do it behind the other's back.  Often, it involves both of us.  We don't use it as a weapon to hurt the other.  In fact, our relationship has been stronger for the 5.5 years that we've 'played around'. 

People ask if we feel like we're opening ourselves up to becoming attracted to another person and leaving the current relationship.  I'm not bothered by that.  Sure, it's a possibility, but it's also a possibility that one of us would meet somebody at work, the store, wherever, and start sneaking around with them.  The sneaking around, the secretive involvement with another person, the dishonesty about who one's with are what damage/ ruin relationships.

I don't cheat and neither does my partner.  Sure, we have sex with more than each other.  So what.  Sex is sex.  I do get something from other sex partners that I don't get from my hubby.  I get different sex.  It's fun, entertaining, and keeps me from having to cheat.  I can't imagine that I'm the only guy my partner will ever want to have sex with; I also won't pat myself on the back ant tell myself that I can always satisfy all his needs.  I feel the same about him, too.

I'm sure that some people will look down on us, call us unfaithful, whatever.  All I can say is that 1) we're happy  2) our relationship works and is functional  3) my partner is the man I love and the one I want in my life  4) we enjoy a variety of sex partners.  If nobody is being hurt, if the relationship works, if the people involved are happy, what's the problem with it?  I like to think that we're just more honest than a lot of people.

David
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Offline Tim

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In the absence of a committed relationship between two people, it is my opinion that promiscuity reigns and “can” be appropriate.

For me personally, an open relationship can not be in the equation.  However, I can see circumstances where, for some others, it may be acceptable and workable.

If a committed partner of mine were to stray, if he were upfront and honest about his affair, with difficulty, I could forgive and forget because of my commitment.

Fuckbuddies is a whole different scene – anything goes.  That is the understanding upfront.

As PozBrit said, sex is a bodily pleasure; love is the emotion.  Once love kicks in, the bodily pleasures shared can and should be evidence and enhancement of that commitment.

For me, commitment means commitment, not just intentions but DOING anything and everything to insure a lasting relationship.  Going into a serious relationship without a total commitment seems to me to set up conditions for a self fulfilling prophecy.  However, as happens all too often, jumping into a commitment too quickly can and does  result in catastrophe once all the cards are on the table.   Likewise, going on a hunt and setting up the commitment as the ultimate goal without a full understanding and acceptance of the relationship that needs to be developed over time can also conclude in disaster.

I have been totally monogamous with every (all 3) serious partner I’ve ever had in my life.  I have never cheated on any of them.  I wouldn’t.  I couldn’t.  And I have no reason to believe any of them cheated on me.

Having said all this, I question my very own behavior about 4-5 years ago.  I had been single for quite a few years when I found a good friend, Mikey, with whom we developed the fuckbuddy relationship.  After awhile, it began to evolve into more of a personal relationship to the point that we had some “talks” about a possible future together, but without conclusion.  Then I met another, Ryan.  It was without physical or sexual interaction for some time and quickly spawned the emotional side in both of us.  We dated a lot for some time yet held the physical at bay.  Often we spoke about “what if” in our future but as of yet made no commitment although we began expressing ourselves through sex.  Then, on one extended weekend, I visited my former buddy, Mikey, and we had sex.  (Was that cheating?  I dunno).  But, at the same time Ryan, being bored in my absence, went out to a club, got very drunk and went home with a stranger.  It was here that he was infected. (Did he cheat on me?  I dunno). 

I had told him about my activities with Mikey and he didn’t seem to be terribly upset by it.  He hadn’t told me of his meeting.  It was at this time that I realized that I loved this guy and so much wanted a lifetime commitment, so I proposed to him and he accepted.  Six weeks later, I was the first he called to tell me of his poz diagnosis and how he had become infected.   I was shocked by the diagnosis but only mildly hurt by his behavior.  (People in glass houses I suppose).  But, I loved him.  The intensity of my feelings for him only multiplied and I stayed right with him.  The “marriage” was put on hold due to the emotional roller coaster of infection to give him time to stabilize.  Eight months later, sobbing hard, he told me that he feared infecting me if we stayed together.  We had already strayed into a couple of less than safe sexual activities.  He was convinced that he would infect me, sooner or later, and could not live with himself if he ever did.  So, he simply up and disappeared from me.

To this day, over four years after our trysts, I still have two questions.  Although we were only dating and no commitment had been made, was what I did cheating on him?   Had I not gone on that trip, would he not have met up with someone and not be positive today?

And finally, had I offered the commitment just a few weeks earlier, would he not only still be negative but would we be together today in a lifetime of love?  Commitment in love means ACTING constructively, and not just intending, to provide unreserved care, respect, encouragement, honesty, truth, trust, support, acceptance, tolerance, forgiveness and, yea, pleasure.

Bailey, your thread basically asks about the importance of the role of commitment in a relationship.  You’re reading the ramblings of a guy who believes commitment is THE most important aspect.  My hesitancy to offer that commitment cost me the love of my life and most likely caused (ok, enabled) his lifetime of HIV.






Tim S., not to be confused with Tim Horn

Offline david25luvit

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Bailey...  I fear this particular subject strikes at the heart of not only gay relationships but heterosexual as well.  Gay men are known for their inability to refrain from jumping in the sack with every Tom, Dick & Harry.  Matty's attitude is more prevailant than you might think...whether most men admit it or not.  Speaking from experience (and I've been gay for a long time) gay men in general are inclined to jump into bed with every man that even gives them the time of day.  A sad commentary on us as social creatures.  For many of us sex was always a "short cut" to intimacy.

But like you Bailey...  I believe in Monogamus relationships.  I know some people like to leave that door open but not me.  I won't say I wasn't tempted to have sex with others while I was with David but I never did.  He meant too much to me to lose him over some roll in the hay...  But keep in mind that some lovers "choose" to share their beds with others and they are fine with it....  Personally cheaters make me sick >:(   The lies and deception that are usually associated with such behavior pisses me off Big Time.

In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline Sdgirl

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I was in a relationship AND he cheated.................Do I win the prize?
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.  Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.  It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.  We ask ourselves.."Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?  Actually, who are you not to be?"

Offline Benc7

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It depends on the honesty of the people involved;if you both vow monogamy, and then screw around, then that is cheating.  When I met my partner in 1980, before marriage was legal, before even same-sex common-law partnerships were given legal protection, we engaged in one of the great freedoms that is a part of being gay: constructing our own relationship in our own way and being careful to chuck the heterosexual template that caused nothing but problems in every relationship we saw, straight or gay.  This wasn't always easy, sometimes it was very hard, but we loved each other and still do. I was probably infected by the virus in the mid -to late eighties and diagnosed in 1990.  My partner is negative.  This is another thing we've worked out and continue to do.  He is the love of my life and I am his.  Last night, at one of the opening concerts for the new Toronto Opera House he turned to me and said "Thank you for one of the great moments of my life." After 26 years, I can thank him for many such moments.

Offline Christine

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Hi Bailey,
I was cheated on...how I contracted hiv. My feelings are that if two adults are in a relationship, and they mutually agree for it to be open, that is their choice. I personally do not want that, but if both parties agree, I don't have a problem with it.

I do have a problem with cheating. Fidelity and honesty are the two most important things to me. My beliefs are that I choose to be with one man, got married with the intent to spend our life together. If either one of us would cheat, the relationship would be over. For both of us that is a deal breaker. We talked about all that before we were married.

I also agree with you. If one is in a relationship, and feels that they need to be with another person. Tell your partner. Don't cheat. I think the betrayal in a relationship is one of the most painful things a person can live through.
Christine

I was thinking more about this after I posted. And I do want to say is that yes, my bf cheated on me, but I chose to have unprotected sex with him. It was under a false pretense, but I still made that choice.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 01:43:07 PM by Christine »
Poz since '93. Currently on Procrit, Azithromax, Pentamidine, Valcyte, Levothyroxine, Zoloft, Epzicom, Prezista, Viread, Norvir, and GS-9137 study drug. As needed: Trazodone, Atavan, Diflucan, Zofran, Hydrocodone, Octreotide

5/30/07 t-cells 9; vl 275,000

Offline DCGuy511

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A very interesting topic. From reading the many posts, it is obviously a very complex issue. My first real relationship lasted seven years. About a year into the relationship I went to a college buddy's wedding. His family owned a winery in the Napa Valley so there was a ton of wine. Laughing, dancing and drinking into the wee hours. I had to get up early to fly back to Washington. The whole morning was a blur, I had that hangover, sleep-deprived fog around me until I called my boyfriend at home to tell him that I was about to board the plane.  We talked, shared stories about our weekends and suddenly my entire night became crystal clear, OMG, I slept with Karl!!! I immediately felt ill. The 6hour plane ride was so painful, the next week was the worst. I was racked with guilt. didn't eat much, slept horribly. One day my BF asked my why I was so cranky.  I just blurted it out- He cried, I cried. I did not set out to cheat on my boyfriend. I was devastated that I had. But, I did cheat. I was the bad guy.  I can't tell you why it happened.

We were together for another six years. around year four, we decided to try the "Open" relationship. We talked about it. Set up ground rules. I took advantage of the arrangement more than he, but I never broke any of the rules. On one of my business trips, I met a guy and I started feeling some sort of emotional attachment to him.  I cam back and told my boyfriend about my trip, all of it.  I told him that I was very troubled by the fact that I had these feelings for "Mark."  My boyfriend replied, "Well, I've been wanting to talk to you for about six months..." Our seven years came to an end. we were both hiv negative. We parted as best friends and we remain best friends three years later.

What killed our relationship was not my cheating or the fact that we decided to have an open arrangement.  What killed our relationship was a lack of communication. I remember being very hurt that he had been feeling trapped for six months and never said a word about it.

I do not think it is appropriate to judge other couples arrangements or decisions. Before Bob and I decided to have an open arrangement, I used to judge those older couples that had similar arrangements. I thought they were wrong, hedonistic. I was naive. Don't judge Mary till you walk in her heels is my new mantra. Some people have really long committed relationships that are centered on monogamy. Some have equally long partnerships that are open. Whatever works for the couple. It is about honesty and communication with your partner. 
Steve
Infected/Diagnosed Fall 2003
"No Man Is An Island" - J Donne

Offline jupiter

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Hej Dingoboi,
Well i feel the same way. I don't see the point of being in a relationship if one or both parties wanna sleep around. (no offence to those who may be in an open situation.)  I have met people in open relationships and everytime there seems to be jealousy even by the strongest open relationship advocates.

I was in a relationship when i tested positive. My partner had been cheating and when confronted he lied about it as well as many other things. He  had put me in this situation due to his dishonesty, that statement isn't me not taking responsibility. But a relationship is built on trust, respect and responsibility for your partner. This partner also claimed to have loved me!!   It was his choice as well as mine to be in the relationship so if he wanted other men why did he continue the relationship??

Some people find it funny to cheat on others but don't seem to think about the consequences their actions may have on others. Yeah i get angry about it at times. I am an honest person, i do the right thing by others and i cant seem to find a partner that is the same. I'm a gay male and yeah it is hard to find a partner... I would love to be in a healthy relationship.. There are good genuine honest guys out there its just a matter of finding Mr right. 


Offline ryeguy

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Dingo Pup,


If I was not already married happily I would jump in a plane fly to you and make you the happiest man on Earth!

I enjoyed your video blog also:-)) he he...... please update soon. :-*

Offline Mouse

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I don't know. Seriously. I don't.

I don't talk about how I am in my relationships a lot because I'm kind of embarrassed. I have a lot of bad traits when it comes to that. I'm clingy, I get obsessed, I pretty much throw myself 100 percent at one person and act like a smacked puppy when whoever I'm with winds up doing something that hurts me. And you know what the silliest thing about it is? I know I'm doing it. I'm completely aware I'm doing something so entirely stupid but I stop and watch myself do it anyway.

I think it depends on the person. Or the people involved. Some people can't handle open relationships. They need to depend entirely on one person, and in a way I think that's how I am. I think I like to feel like I'm safe and that I've found like one person that I can absolutely trust no matter what. But, then, I've never really been in a total monogamous relationship. I guess it's cause I'm young, which I understand. And it's not like I ever pushed the monogamy thing, to be honest. But eh.

I think, and this probably sound ridiculous and strange and you'll all chase me with pitchforks now, that it's important to seperate sex and love. Sex is one thing. You can do it with anybody, pretty much. And it'll probably feel good no matter who you do it with. It's a physical thing. But if you are really in love with someone then sex has nothing to do with it. It's nice to share something that feels that good with someone you love, but I think it's entirely possible to love someone and never have sex with them (but who'd want to do that?). So, I think, open relationships are okay. Especially if you're really, really in love - and not the opposite. Because you'd both understand you love each other so much that you'd choose each other over any of the other people you've had sex with, and that's why your relationship is the closest, but yet also understand that you don't have to and it doesn't effect how you feel emotionally.

But, then again, if whoever I was with demanded me to stay monogamous, and I really loved them, I'd rather die than lie to them or go against what they said. Just the crazy obedientness that is me. Which can be somewhat scary to myself at times.

Offline dane7484

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Dingbat claims to "detest open relationships and cheaters disgust me even more," and that he doesn't understand why people in a relationship want to fuck around and that he doesn't want to be fucked around on. He then goes on to blast the entire gay community claiming that gays lack morals. He claims that gays have a "fuck anything, anytime attitude" that makes him want to vomit. Then Dingbat hypocritically goes on to tell us that he cheated on his first b/f of 2.5 years, but only for "emotional gratification."

Dingbat needs to stop making generalizations about the gay community and stop projecting his beliefs onto the entire gay community. Who gave Dingbat a blog? From what I've seen of his posts, I won't be checking out his blog.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2006, 10:32:08 PM by dane7484 »

Offline DingoBoi

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name calling is offensive here in this which is a support forum dane.

It is highly unconstructive.

I did make some bold statements and acknowledge my faults.   To me, I still find it repulsive.   If you would like to quote me, please use the quote button.   Your interpretation of what I said is woefully distorted.

I welcome criticism when made constructively, however, by name calling, you void anything constructive.   I'd go on to explain my reasons for posting this thread, but you deserve no such explanation.

Perhaps you should read and listen to my blogs to understand my perspective.   Or perhaps it would just be entirely lost on you.

either way, I suspect you are a former incarnation of another person who had a penchant for attempting to use the insult 'dingbat'.

In case the entire point of the this forum has eluded you, it is a support forum.





« Last Edit: June 27, 2006, 10:55:38 PM by DingoBoi »

Offline dane7484

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Don't tell me how to post. I quoted every hypocritical thing you said in your original post. Based on the posts that I've read, your posts are hardly supportive. For instance, I  read your reply to a post from someone named blbldude where you dismissed their post as being "hocus pocus" and then you said they didn't have a clue about anything. You seem like a spoiled, self-centered, bitchy fag who has spent too much time in the bars. You dish it out but can't take it.  >:(
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 01:55:43 AM by dane7484 »

Offline michaelman333

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I can say that having HIV and dealing with it has made me reevaluate my relationships .. i am current;ly in a relationship that i want monogomaous ... i sometimes wonder what MY BF wants ... i am feeling that he wants an open relationsip but i am lost at it alll ...

i feel sometimes the need to be in an open relationship stems form insecurities. If you are truly secure with yourself why would you ever need to find gratifications with a bunch of different men...

I have bene told i am silly and old fashioned for believing in monogamy but you know i want to be with one person and that is it ...

anyway enough of that for now ...
06/29/09 ---- CD4- 392 (20%)   VL-Und
02/19/09 ---- CD4- 513 (23%)   VL-Und
01/11/09 ---- Switched Atripla
11/05/08 ---- CD4- 462 (23%)   VL - Und
04/01/06 ---- CD4- 274 (19%)   VL - 1200
03/20/06 ---- Started Truvada/Azatanovir/Ritonavir
02/28/06 ---- CD4- 219 (17%)   VL - 217,000
Diagnosed HIV+ 11/30/2005

You said I was lost/Wrong again
Said I had crossed that/Line again
Made it to easy to/Scream again
Made me feel queazy/Let me in
~~MLH

Offline jupiter

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Your right michaelman.  Im the same i have given my all to my relationships and at times payed the price. If there is one thing my past 2 relationships have taught me is DONT SETTLE FOR SECOND BEST.

The relationship i was in when my bf slept around and left me with my little "suprise" had a very low self esteem and was constantly seeking attention and validation and when asked what he wanted  would tell me what i wanted to hear not what he wanted.. Pathetic !!

Communication is the key and if your partner isnt sure what he wants or if your not sure what he wants ask him. and if its what you want great if not then tell him goodbye.....

You have some good morals there and your very good looking..  By some of the replies to this thread it seems there are some fabulous guys out there that do know what they want and want a monogomous relationship, There is hope for me to find someone yet!!  :)

Theres my 3 cents have a fab day guys and girls..
Jupiter



Offline Ann

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Don't tell me how to post. I quoted every hypocritical thing you said in your original post. Based on the posts that I've read, your posts are hardly supportive. For instance, I  read your reply to a post from someone named blbldude where you dismissed their post as being "hocus pocus" and then you said they didn't have a clue about anything. You seem like a spoiled, self-centered, bitchy fag who has spent too much time in the bars. You dish it out but can't take it.  >:(

"Dane",

Can I ask why you are using different usernames while posting to our forums? Thus far, you have also used blbldude and you also created an account last night by the name of truthaboutAIDSMEDS that you haven't posted with yet.

Please realize that this kind of activity is disrespectful of other forum members, as well as our moderators. People spend a considerable amount of time helping others in these forums. Using multiple accounts is at the very least annoying, if not deceiving and disrespectful of others. It is also against our Terms of Membership which you agreed to when you became a member.

I would appreciate a reply to this message, and I hope you will commit to using just one account - preferably your original one. If not, you will be banned from further access to the forums.

I might not be able to tell you how to post - as in what opinions you post - but I can stop you from abusing this forum with multiple accounts.


Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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It suits me to comment in this thread now. ;D

So Bailey,  this was the thread for grown ups eh? Only mature and wise discussion about the serious issue of HIV infection framed within the paradigm of infidelity was to be considered? All I see is name calling and a multiple account abuser. Ah well, never mind.

In my original comments, I dismissed the notion of monogamy as ridiculous. I speak only from the narrow spectrum of my personal experience, but every relationship that I've had that was predicated on monogamy ended in lies and bitterness. Jealousy and mistrust ran to the fore rather than love and mutual respect.

I've not pursued a monogamous union since I was 20. They strike me as the foolish pursuit of the straights. You know, those people who are so keen on defending the institution of marriage.

The most rewarding and satisfying I've had have been "open" ones. The relationships that are so despised by some. I have few expectations of my long term lovers. They can do what they want, with whom they choose. I don't own them. I just expect to be able to sleep in my own bed. If my partner of the day wants to fuck rough trade in the bathroom, that's his look out. I'm responsible for my own infection. I don't have to blame anyone or seek excuses in the form of boyfriends who may have given themselves over to the weaknesses of the flesh.

Since I've adopted this policy, I've discovered that envy, insecurity and bitterness no longer invade my thoughts and torment my feelings. But then, what would I know?

I'm not as grown up as some.

Kisses,

MtD
(Who has spoken)

Offline David_CA

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I can say that having HIV and dealing with it has made me reevaluate my relationships .. i am currently in a relationship that i want monogamous ... i sometimes wonder what MY BF wants ... i am feeling that he wants an open relationsip but i am lost at it all ...

i feel sometimes the need to be in an open relationship stems form insecurities. If you are truly secure with yourself why would you ever need to find gratifications with a bunch of different men...

I have been told i am silly and old fashioned for believing in monogamy but you know i want to be with one person and that is it ...

anyway enough of that for now ...

Your right michaelman.  I'm the same i have given my all to my relationships and at times payed the price. If there is one thing my past 2 relationships have taught me is DONT SETTLE FOR SECOND BEST.

The relationship i was in when my bf slept around and left me with my little "suprise" had a very low self esteem and was constantly seeking attention and validation and when asked what he wanted  would tell me what i wanted to hear not what he wanted.. Pathetic !!

Communication is the key and if your partner isn't sure what he wants or if your not sure what he wants ask him. and if its what you want great if not then tell him goodbye.....

You have some good morals there and your very good looking..  By some of the replies to this thread it seems there are some fabulous guys out there that do know what they want and want a monogamous relationship, There is hope for me to find someone yet!!  :)

Theres my 3 cents have a fab day guys and girls..
Jupiter

I think that sometimes we mean different things by 'open relationship'.  I have friends that play around; each partner does their own thing and has no desire to know what the other is doing.  Some enjoy a 3- or 4-way or group situations and only play around together.  Some are less restrictive, which is how my partner and I are.  We don't do anything in secret... like I said earlier, we ask 'permission' or ask the other to join in.  This in no way indicates insecurity; in fact, it's just the opposite.  We're secure enough that if I see my partner having sex with another guy, it's a turn on, not something that causes jealousy.  He's the same way towards me.  All this stems from honesty.  Many (gay) couples I know either play around too, mess around behind their partner's back, or remain monogamous but wish they could explore sex with others. 

I'm not saying monogamy is bad.  It's up to the individuals involved.  The key is honesty and communication.  With these two things present, a relationship can withstand 'most anything.  I'm sure some would say that we are immoral for having sex partners outside of the relationship.  That's fine, but that sense of morality is something that we, as a society, create.  I think that many can't separate sex from love.  It's like the difference between enjoying the taste of food and obtaining nutritional value from the food one eats.  I get love, companionship, support, and sex from my partner.  I get sex (and sometimes friendship) from a few others.  I'm certainly not advocating cheating, which I think sometimes gets confused as an 'open relationship'.  Hell, I don't consider my relationship with my partner open.  Our relationship just doesn't restrict sexual activity.  I know my partner and I are both very fortunate in that we both want the same things from our relationship.  We've got an enviable relationship, according to some of our friends (gay and straight).  After seven years, we're closer than ever. 

That's the great thing about a nontraditional relationship; it can be constructed to suit the individuals involved without having to conform to a standard.  It can also be a hell of a lot of fun, too!

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
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Offline joemutt

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the topic,s header is ;who was infected in an open relationship;/or by cheating?
then a blanket condemnation of ;cheating;
(can one cheat in an open relationship?)
then a confession by IP that he cheated on his boyfriend (in a toilet)
as a sort of pre emptive strike;
what,s the story, morning glory? ::)



Offline cmhjeff

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Just knew this would be a hot topic with sparks flying.  As for me I think I've always been in search of that perfect monogamous relationship. Even in my current relationship of 10 years I had to deal with that cheating about six years ago.  It was the hardest thing to deal with at the time of we work through our trust issues and today I believe our love is stronger than ever.  I think the worst thing about him cheating was that I found out online from the person he cheated with.  I think the fact that he lied about the act hurt more than the act itself.  I think there's a lot to say about a monogamous relationship but it's not my place to judge will work sure someone else.  I see open relationship and cheating as two separate acts.  In my eyes teaching involves lying and an open relationship involves an understanding. I'd like to say there is no excuse for cheating but in the heat of the moment and coked out of my mind I cheated once during a previous relationship and I hated myself for that and it ultimately ruined that relationship.  My partner and I enjoy the raunchiest of porns :P and get our kicks on cruising hot boys and daddies just about everywhere we go.  I will admit that with my current condition of PML some deep inner trust issues did resurface and I even told my partner that if I was lacking that I would understand if he needed something on the side.  This actually seemed to really upset him because I think he thought I was accusing him but all I was trying to say is that I would rather know about it up front rather than find out about it online, my friends or a strange late-night phone call.  It all comes down to that lying factor for me.  I was the winner though when he told me that he's not stuck with me but he's with me because he loves me and cares for me and will be here through good and bad.  So we will continue to gawk and watch porn :P

Offline dario

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Bailey,
first of all I want to tell you that if I lived on the other side of the Atlantic I would make you a happy man.

Many comments and issues raised in this "discussion" remind me of Oscar Wilde's novel "The Portrait of Dorian Gray".  (Oscar Wilde was one of the best ever novelists and he was gay). 

In this novel Lord Henry tells the handsome Dorian. "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it" Lord Henry adds. "Resist it and the soul grows sick with longing."  Dorian begins a searching of his lust and discovers a brilliant actress Sibyl Vane, who performs Shakespeare in a shabby theatre.  Dorian approaches her and immediately proposes marriage. Sibyl does not know his name refers to him as Prince Charming. 

Dorian invites Lord Henry to see Sibyl perform in Romeo and Juliet.  Until then Sibyl’s only knowledge of love was through the love of theatre.  Now she experienced true love with Dorian and she suddenly loses her acting abilities and performs very badly. When Dorian sees this he cruelly rejects her telling her that if she could no longer act, he was no longer interested in her.  Back home, Dorian notices that the portrait of him has changed because there was a touch of cruelty in the mouth. Dorian understands that his mad wish has come true.  The portrait is ageing while his own outward appearance remains unchanged. He decides to reconcile with Sibyl, but Lord Henry arrives in the morning to say that Sibyl has killed herself by swallowing acid.
Dorian spends the next eighteen years by indulging with every vice forbidden to man, under the influence of a French novel given to him as a present from Lord Henry. (Oscar Wilde probably got his inspiration from the novel “A Rebours” – Against Nature).

18 years later, after returning to London, Dorian tells Lord Henry that he decided to be good by not breaking the heart of his latest innocent conquest, a vicar’s daughter in a country town.  He wonders if the portrait would have begun to change back losing its sinister appearance, now that he has changed his ways.  He unveils it to only find that it has become worse. 

Dorian thus begins to question the motives behind his act, whether it was merely vanity, curiosity, or seeking new emotional excess. 

I will not write more because it will be too long.  Sorry for my english!

hugs
dario
... when I was young, I never needed anyone, making love was just for fun, those days are gone ... Eric Carmen (Raspberries)

 


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