Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 20, 2014, 07:42:50 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 650036
  • Total Topics: 49618
  • Online Today: 168
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: HIV is not AIDS  (Read 5337 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChaplinGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
  • Eat my left foot
HIV is not AIDS
« on: February 15, 2007, 05:43:33 PM »

I am starting to have a hard time discerning between medical news (drugs, vaccine trials, etc) that tout the need for "AIDS prevention." I think that the line between "having HIV" and "progressing to AIDS" needs to be drawn a little more clearly - especially among the medical community.

I recently saw an article that I thought was highly responsible in explaining that HIV did not necessarily define a person as having AIDS, but it was the first one I've seen in almost a year of my reading about this issue. Too often news organizations talk about positive individuals as "part of the AIDS epidemic."

I think I'm just babbling about a fine line here, but I think it's part of the reason so many in the general public don't understand how a healthy-looking individual can be positive.

(I'm also reminded of a funny moment on "South Park" when Cartman says that they should give Kyle AIDS so they can have a fundraiser.)

Sorry, I think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here, but it's on my mind.

Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2007, 05:48:31 PM »
I agree with you in principal.  I am HIV+, I do not have AIDS.  HOWEVER...I think if the media wants to lump them together---go right ahead.  I, in no way, want to see HIV trivialized and made to seen as "no big deal" in comparison to AIDS.  Does that make sense? 
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,104
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2007, 05:54:43 PM »
OK  Heres one for you.  I am a LTNP with 18 yrs on the books as HIV positive.  I recently applied for a Home Equity Loan and got insurance to cover it in case I was either disabled or died.  The question I had to answer to get the insurance was:  Have you in the past year been treated for or diagnosed with: Cancer, etc etc, or AIDS.  I said I had not been diagnosed with or treated for AIDS in the past year.  I hope THEY have their semantics correct.
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Ihavehope

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2007, 06:00:18 PM »
I think it is necessary to have a fine line between HIV and AIDS because if you do not take care of your HIV early it can eventually lead to AIDS. People define AIDS when you have 200Cd4  cells other define it when you have one or two OI. The bottom line is that when you hear or read the word AIDS, it becomes a word associated with severe illness and many times death. It is necessary to associate both words because much much more needs to be done for us to get better treatment and possibly a cure. If we go about our lives "satisfied" with what we already have and have a mindset that we are HIV positive and will most likely not die of AIDS then pharmaceutical companies will believe that we are doing ok and focus on other illnesses. People are still dying of AIDS even with HAART. Only 3-5% of the people infected with HIV/AIDS receive HAART in this world so AIDS in most of the world is a harsher reality than it is in the US and western countries.
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline Lis

  • Member
  • Posts: 601
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2007, 06:05:34 PM »
I still think that Kyel need a fund raiser!!! LOL

It is all so mudded... I have AIDS... I have been on AV's for 4 years, i still dont have a CD4 above 200... I have had several OI's...  but that is me.. this shit is PERSONAL>>> no 2 of us will react the same... they need not try and place us in a box...

poz 1986....

Offline StrongGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 492
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2007, 06:17:48 PM »
The media is always getting it wrong - even articles or reports from organizations I respect screw up the terms and use them in the worng context. It used to annoy me but now I just let it roll. 
"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2007, 06:18:23 PM »
I think we attach too much importance to the difference between AIDS and HIV+.  Some languages don't even differentiate.  You are either sick or not sick with this disease.  I have the virus.  A CD4 count of less than 200 would qualify me for some level of assistance, otherwise not.  But even that has gray areas.  Either word is charged for most people, so I vote we just simplify it.     Diabetics don't run around saying "I'm diabetic vs low blood sugar positive".  I realize we all feel there is a stigma to one word that is harsher than the other.  I claim that the stigma is the same to the people out there who are not poz.  The public needs education, but it should not be a lesson in linguistics as far as I'm concerned.    It should be a lesson in compassion.  All diseases have levels of severity.  Not all of them have two different names, nor should they.

And for those of us who object to wearing a label...  well... all words are labels and all words carry a connotation and denotation.  You can decry it until the cows come home, but that's human nature.  You may not want to put yourself in the same category as someone who isn't as ill as you, but you still have the same disease, and it's still as dangerous to you as it is to them. 

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline stratosphere

  • Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 08:04:01 PM »
This reminds me of some thoughts / questions i had recently,  i have heard my friends say this person or that person "is sick" and i wonder what they mean by "sick" as in "to what extent".  Obviously i mean in the gay community,  because it means something totally different to straigh people.  Do they mean he or she has HIV or they have AIDS? 

To put this into better context,  they have commented on people (not in a mean spirited way mind you) saying they "looked sick" or in one case when someone died recently "but i didnt even know he was sick".  So what is their definition of "sick",  someone who merely has the hiv infection even though it might be under control or someone who is losing the battle?  At what point do we become sick,  if our CD4 counts and %'s are high and our VL is undetectable?  Or do we become "sick" at infection? 

What the hell is "sick" anyway?  I wouldnt ask this question but i know it is one of those buzz words or phrases that is going around in the community where i live and i seem to be lost on it.  I just act like i know what they are talking about i guess.  One point of interest to me though,  when a good friend of mine died last year at the age of 31,  from a non-hiv related illness.  The preacher at the service said very bluntly,  "we all have a terminal illness,  it is called LIFE".  Or something like that.  It really struck me as true,  since all of us there were in grief over his untimely death i guess he will be there to greet us someday when we crossover. 

Sorry,  i hope this doesnt seem like a downer,  not meant to be at all.  Cheers to you all and my prayers are with all of us every day. 

 :)

1/05   CD4 305  VL  ?        34%
2/05   CD4 310  VL  ?        35%
7/05   CD4 277  VL  <50    43%
11/05 CD4 516  VL  <50    46%
2/06   CD4 640  VL  <50    46%
6/06   CD4 578  VL  <50    46%
10/06 CD4 491  VL  <50    50%
3/07   CD4 674  VL  <50    50%
7/07   CD4 516  VL  <50    43%
11/07 CD4 635  VL  <50    44%
3/08   CD4 584  VL  <50    48%
7/08   CD4 510  VL  <50    49%
11/08 CD4 580  VL  <50    49%
2/09   CD4 661  VL  <50    50%

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2007, 09:22:54 PM »
I think we attach too much importance to the difference between AIDS and HIV+.  Some languages don't even differentiate.  You are either sick or not sick with this disease.  I have the virus.  A CD4 count of less than 200 would qualify me for some level of assistance, otherwise not.  But even that has gray areas.  Either word is charged for most people, so I vote we just simplify it.     Diabetics don't run around saying "I'm diabetic vs low blood sugar positive".  I realize we all feel there is a stigma to one word that is harsher than the other.  I claim that the stigma is the same to the people out there who are not poz.  The public needs education, but it should not be a lesson in linguistics as far as I'm concerned.    It should be a lesson in compassion.  All diseases have levels of severity.  Not all of them have two different names, nor should they.

And for those of us who object to wearing a label...  well... all words are labels and all words carry a connotation and denotation.  You can decry it until the cows come home, but that's human nature.  You may not want to put yourself in the same category as someone who isn't as ill as you, but you still have the same disease, and it's still as dangerous to you as it is to them. 

I'd agree with you.  While Diabetes has Type 1 and 2.   Type 1, insulin dependent is more dangerous, but not given a completely different name.   And, I don't agree with two completely different names for the same damn disease.

From what I know now an AIDS diagnosis wouldn't bother me anymore than being HIV+ at this point.   Well, I suppose that's easy to say, but it's really just a stupid numbers game.   To give someone more consideration because they have 1 less T cell or to give someone else less consideration because they have 1 more T cell is wrong. 

I've noticed a rift between those who are newly diagnosed and those who've been diag. for years.   I've also noticed some of the same issues between people who are HIV+ and those who are classified as having AIDS.

To me, it seems if we have to wear a label, why not have one for all?   You can give it different stages like Cancer or whatever.

I'm definitely opposed to having 2 different names for the same virus.   I feel it only contributes to the stigma and ignorance of the virus for the public at large, and even within our own community.

Hell, it's discrimination at the cellular level!   I'm not sure you can get any pettier than that.

Wesley



Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Nico

  • Member
  • Posts: 262
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2007, 11:17:57 PM »
HIV is not AIDS???

Geez?  I must be confused?  Your T-cells and VL load define this?

Let me explain.  From 1989 to 9/2001 I was not on meds and had T's which ranged from 350 to 600 and a VL from 24K to 60K.  Then in late 2001 I got PCP.  My T's were above 300 and my VL was below 50K.  That being said, I have full blown AIDS by definition.

Well, today is 2/15/2007 and my 43rd birthday and you know what??? My last labs from last week are 900 T's. 47% and no VL.  So, I guess I am now HIV+ or do I do I still have AIDS?

One thing I do know is I am alive and kicking.  I feel they are one in the same, unless you are "special".

Sorry to sound like a B*

Rog 
Poz since 1990.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 12:33:09 AM »
Well, Happy Birthday, sorry I missed that!

I agree completely.   Why do some define AIDS as anyone who's ever dropped below 200 T Cells?    Other than for insurance and disability claims  which I don't even agree are appropriate standards.     I think it's just stupid!

Someone with cancer who goes into remission isn't considered still deathly ill and given a different label. 

Although, a couple of my friends are "cancer survivors"!  Not sure they are thrilled with that, but I'm gona ask em.

One thing is for sure is no one ever says oh, how'd you get that to someone with cancer.

Eh, I'm rambling, but I think the whole AIDS bit should be trashed.     I don't even like how it implies something the person did wrong with the term "Aquired"?   Who came up with that and why didn't they label Hepatitus as "Aquired"?   



Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2007, 12:37:15 AM »
In the gay community, at least in my neck of the woods, saying someone is "sick" is a polite way of saying the person is in the advanced stages of AIDS.   It's almost like it would be rude to come out and speak the word.

Strange.  
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2007, 12:51:04 AM »
To be fair, there are some decent reasons to keep the AIDS diagnosis, even after someone has started HAART and gotten T Cell counts over 200.

There are different types of T Cells. In layman terms, one type is a "memory" cell another type is a "helper" cell. A third type is a "Naive" cell.

There is evidence that once a certain amount of "memory" cells have been lost, they are replaced by "helper" cells, which though effective in identifying new pathogenic infection, are not particularly effective in fighting those pathogens. Memory cells are those cells which we are born with, cells that identify pathogens and infections first, and best. While it is speculated that, over time, other forms of T Cells can replace deseased memory cells, it is also speculated that once a person reaches a critical point (commonly 200 or less  CD4 cell count) then the dsamage to the immune system is not measured so much by sheer numbers of cells, but rather the quality of cells.

Therefore it is reasonable to assume that even after HAART therapy, there is an increased risk of illness and disease for those whose immune systems have been deccimated. How many years it takes for replacement memory cells to be formed is still being studied, but it stands to reason that once a person has reached the point of an AIDS diagnosis, the damage tot he immune system as a whole is not as easily overcome by simple numbers of CD4 cell counts.

aneway CA, Jr. et al (2005). Immunobiology., 6th ed., Garland Science. ISBN 978-0-443-07310-6.
Cellular and Molecular Immunology (5th Ed.) Abbas AK, and Lichtman, Editor: Saunders, Philadelphia, 2003.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2007, 12:56:01 AM »
After all my indecipherable writing, I found a GREAT resource that puts it in pretty well plain speak, and it ALSO a quantifiable source (aegis)

It says in part:

<<: New anti-HIV drugs mean higher t-cells for many with HIV, but the t-cells gained may not be naive. They may not be as effective in fighting some opportunistic infections. If you see an opportunistic infection listed as being dangerous for those with t-cells -- say, below 200 -- it means you are in danger if your t-cell count ever dropped that low. Your t-cells (CD4+) count may be higher now, but you should still be on the lookout for trouble.>>


http://www.aegis.com/topics/cd4.html
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Robert

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,649
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2007, 02:30:46 AM »
Jonathan:

Thanks, I think.  YOu might be the first one to explain why my memory is shot.  You mentioned there are different types of t-cells: a "memory" cell, a "helper" cell, and "naive" cell.

When our t-cells decline it seems we are losing some of each but that the "memory" cells are limited in number and at some point they are replaced by "helper" cells. 

You also say, ""Memory cells are those cells which we are born with, cells that identify pathogens and infections first, and best."  Do memory cells have anything to do with "memory" as in cognitive awareness?  I'm just not very sharp anymore (ever since my PCP) and could it be because I don't have the "memory" (quantity or quality) t-cells I used to? 

Or is that a different kind of memory?

robert
..........

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2007, 02:43:27 AM »
Hi robert, I think "memory" cell that Johnathan is talking about is completely different. Those memory immune cells are those that we were born with and grew older with so that we won't get sick with certain things that we already got sick with when we were young.

Nothing to do with the brain memory.

Your brain I think may  be shot  because of the medicine. One thing I really noticed since starting HAART is that it has been getting harder and harder to pull certain word out of my brain. I konw what I want to say, but a lot of times, can't seem to pull that word out. Also, have you been seeing a tingy of yello and orange everywhere? I have been on certain days.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline egello

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2007, 02:45:02 AM »
My ADAP counselor told me that once you have the AIDS diagonosis, you will be considered as AIDS patient rest of my life and not just HIV pos.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 04:58:31 AM »
I am starting to have a hard time discerning between medical news (drugs, vaccine trials, etc) that tout the need for "AIDS prevention."

I see it as semantics. In one sense what they are ultimately trying to prevent is AIDS.

For myself, I make my own distinctions between being HIV positive and having AIDS. I have “clinically” been in a state of AIDS before with CD4 counts below 200 and a couple of opportunistic infections, namely anal warts and shingles. However having recovered from both and my CD4 count now risen again, I no longer say I have AIDS but that I'm HIV positive.

What doctors put on my chart is up to them. It won't change how I view my situation.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 05:56:53 AM »
The two are totally different. HIV is the virus that causes AIDS. AIDS has the classification of a CD4 count <200 with an OI. HIV doesn't kill and your body can have a normal CD4 count, whereas AIDS with an OI can kill, so why the discussion with the terms? Those of us that have been living with this before it had a name have seen changes. You will hear the term, Advanced HIV disease, which again is not the same as someone that just has HIV. Advanced HIV disease is just a comer way of putting it that you have AIDS. Then you again fall back on the definition of AIDS. The discussion of, well my CD4 has risen above the classification of AIDS is because you are taking HAART. Stop the HARRT, and watch how fast you will decline. 

Offline Londonguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 104
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2007, 06:15:37 AM »
After all my indecipherable writing, I found a GREAT resource that puts it in pretty well plain speak, and it ALSO a quantifiable source (aegis)

It says in part:

<<: New anti-HIV drugs mean higher t-cells for many with HIV, but the t-cells gained may not be naive. They may not be as effective in fighting some opportunistic infections. If you see an opportunistic infection listed as being dangerous for those with t-cells -- say, below 200 -- it means you are in danger if your t-cell count ever dropped that low. Your t-cells (CD4+) count may be higher now, but you should still be on the lookout for trouble.>>


http://www.aegis.com/topics/cd4.html

This scares me  :(

I hate knowing how low my CD4 is and pretty much console myself with the thought that, hopefully, it should be rising now I'm on meds.  But reading this makes me feel really negative, like the new CD4 cells I gain aren't much good anyway.  :-\
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 06:43:34 AM by Londonguy »

Offline Nico

  • Member
  • Posts: 262
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2007, 08:12:22 AM »
"The discussion of, well my CD4 has risen above the classification of AIDS is because you are taking HAART. Stop the HARRT, and watch how fast you will decline." 

Yes, like the diabetic who's blood sugar is controlled by insulin.  Right?

Roger
Poz since 1990.

Offline MitchMiller

  • Member
  • Posts: 482
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 12:10:25 AM »
For what it's worth my TCells were 112 when I started meds and were below 200 for four months prior to that.  It took over a year to go over 200.  I was contrary and never took my bactrim and never got sick... not even a sniffle.  Only problem I had was neurological  - tinitus.
I think everyone is different, so don't sweat the counts so much so long as you're healthy.

Offline StrongGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 492
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2007, 12:26:01 AM »
Londonguy the CD4s you gain may not have the memory of some of the old ones lost, but they aren't "no good." If they were "no good" nobody would even bother going on meds when their counts are low and memory Ts are lost. More Ts are good - memory or not.

Your body will be gaining an arsenal against opportunistic infections - with or without memory Ts -  just keep adding up the Ts and monitoring your percentage and doing what you need to do.

Mike :)
"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline Mike89406

  • Member
  • Posts: 206
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2007, 12:39:06 AM »
LondonGuy Let me just reiterate the importance of T-cells Like the old memory or not. They are vital to fight disease. I myself have lived through unique circumstances. My average T-cells from 2005 and before were 350-480 and VL no more than 33000. Becuase I developed Testicle cancer which probably was caused by me taking the Live flu virus. It dropped my immune system below 200 t-cells. After Radiation treament in early 2006 My T-cellls ranged between 126-176, My CD4 % between 23-31%. I have been undetetcable since last year.

I'm one of those who hardly get the flu cold etc...despite my numbers I seem pretty healthy. Everyone is unique dont let the numbers fool you As you can see my CD4 My percentage was decent which made the numbers seem uncorrelated. So in Essence my doc sayd my immune system was the equivalent of someone with 350+ t-cells. With 200 T-cells they relate that to 14% average which is a low %. But My less than 200 with 23-31% didnt jive. It was in fact the Radiation Treatment which depleted my White Blood Cells I Believe

Point is Numbers dont tell the whole story. No matter how you feel these are very exicting times in research and Development of HIV/AIDS Life expectancy has increased dramatically compared to 20 yrs ago along with quality of life with HIV/AIDS. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 12:43:48 AM by Mike89406 »

Offline northernguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,347
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2007, 03:37:32 AM »
In the gay community, at least in my neck of the woods, saying someone is "sick" is a polite way of saying the person is in the advanced stages of AIDS.   It's almost like it would be rude to come out and speak the word.

Strange.  

God, I hate when you hear people say "he's sick" or "he looks sick"  And its usually delivered in that kind of stage whisper. I always feel like saying:"Sick?  Like he has a cold" or "I have it to, do I look sick?"  They usually are referring to someone with lipo, which is in some ways ironic, since that doesn't indicate if the person actually feels "sick" does it?
Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2007, 04:35:37 AM »
Hey Northern,

I agree, happened to me at a bar about 6 mo. ago.  People I was aquainted with started pointing out a group of frail older guys and saying I bet they've got aids.   They were a little stunned and embarrassed when I told them I was HIV+.  I guess they first thought I was joking, but eventually I used the opportunity to educate them.  We ended up talking for 2 hours.   

I don't want to derail this topic cause it's a good one.   But, in that conversation I explained the technical difference between HIV+ and AIDs, but that I felt we weren't any different.  It's the same virus. 

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2007, 06:50:54 AM »
Aids is a defining point. It isn't a virus period. It's an explanation of. OI's are not the same as HIV.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2007, 06:56:01 AM »
Yes Rod, that's true!  But, whether you are HIV+ or defined as AIDS you still have the same virus do you not?
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2007, 09:11:07 AM »
You have the same virus with a CD4< or = to 200 with an OI. That is the defining difference between someone with HIV and someone with AIDS. Would I like to "just have" HIV instead of AIDS? You bet in a heart beat. Not only are you dealing with HIV meds you are dealing with one or more OIs and meds on top of it. Like I said before, AIDS is a progression definition of HIV.

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2007, 10:12:39 AM »
The two are totally different. HIV is the virus that causes AIDS. AIDS has the classification of a CD4 count <200 with an OI. HIV doesn't kill and your body can have a normal CD4 count, whereas AIDS with an OI can kill, so why the discussion with the terms? Those of us that have been living with this before it had a name have seen changes. You will hear the term, Advanced HIV disease, which again is not the same as someone that just has HIV. Advanced HIV disease is just a comer way of putting it that you have AIDS. Then you again fall back on the definition of AIDS. The discussion of, well my CD4 has risen above the classification of AIDS is because you are taking HAART. Stop the HARRT, and watch how fast you will decline. 

I was thinking about this, Rod, and while I still feel this is very much a semantics issue and we spend way too much time diddling on the definitions of words, worrying about what label applies to what etc.... I do think you are correct inasmuch as AIDS should probably be looked at the entire package of OI's and other things that go along with having HIV.  It is useful to have two words, at least if you are having an informed conversation.

However, i don't think that the layperson typically differentiates between the two.  So, the flip side of this is, that while the medical terms AIDS and HIV have different denotations,  the popular connotations of the two words are quite similar.  I think this might be the source of many poz people's discomfort with being asked if they have AIDS when in fact they are "merely" HIV+.

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2007, 02:41:43 AM »
You have the same virus with a CD4< or = to 200 with an OI. That is the defining difference between someone with HIV and someone with AIDS. Would I like to "just have" HIV instead of AIDS? You bet in a heart beat. Not only are you dealing with HIV meds you are dealing with one or more OIs and meds on top of it. Like I said before, AIDS is a progression definition of HIV.

Again Rod,

I agree with you.   However, I wasn't talking about OI's.    When dealing with a social situation as I described we didn't get into those hypertechnical aspects.   The basis of that conversation as I recall had more to do with discrimination.   It wasn't a pre med class!

Wesley
« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 02:45:50 AM by AustinWesley »
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2007, 04:56:56 AM »
Wesley, then take the time when you are in those types of discussions to explain the difference.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2007, 10:42:03 AM »
Rod, the day I let you direct my social life will be the day Hell freezes over!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2007, 12:37:44 PM »
It's alright if you don't want to educate persons that ask you questions. Then you should never have any qualms of the way people are educated. Westley no one was trying to direct your social life, nor does anyone care.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2007, 12:45:04 PM »
Rod, like Hell!

It's crystal clear to me based on the many topics that you are repeatedly finding subjects I post in and choose to antagonize me.   You inferred that I was disseminating misinformation by completely taking things out of context.    I find that really offensive.

I am beginning to wonder if this is a case of internet stalking ; )



Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Ihavehope

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2007, 12:48:15 PM »
Ladies please conversate in a gentle manner.
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2007, 12:51:41 PM »
Westley, stock you? Why? Don't begin to flatter yourself.  There is a button called "ignore," doesn't take but a second to use.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2007, 01:03:59 PM »
The fact that I have to use that is evident of your intentions.  But I'm not going too.

People are afraid to make posts because of those who go around looking to shame or embarrass others!   I think you should think about that.

Backing up to all of the information I related in the story I gave out no misinformation, nor did I in the persoal account I shared.

I find this sort of criticism coming from someone who uses a dog as a picture especially ridiculous.  I am not embarrassed or ashamed of having HIV and yeah I do some things in public to raise awareness and help end stigma and breakdown stereotypes.  I'd like to be able to share my experience and questions without my words being taken out of context or made to look foolish because you have nothing better to do, but follow me around and derail more topics of interest.

I just wonder if you think this is a good way of getting attention and if you are in fact concerned about misinformation going out why don't you start a topic for once?

« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 01:19:29 PM by AustinWesley »
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2007, 01:19:13 PM »
ROFL, my avatar has nothing to do with anything.  This is the same avatar that I have used since I joined the forums in April of 2005 and the same one I use on other forums. My real picture has been posted before. Whats that got to do with this thread? You want to believe the word AIDS should be dropped. Then when it was explained to you why it should not, you took offense. I can't help it if you are not as knowledgeable about the history of HIV and AIDS like some of us, but I will say when you have lived with it for over 20 years of your life you'll understand.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2007, 01:22:30 PM »
Rod,

Yes we know you've had it for 20 years.   That is always your defense when anyone fires back at you and calls you on your BS!

Why don't you start a topic about it?   Did people get tired of hearing the broken record back in 2005?
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2007, 01:31:07 PM »
Wesley, like I said, when you have had it as long and I hope you never have to deal with what some of us have had to, then maybe, just maybe, you'll understand.  As for BS, whatever you think.  :D

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2007, 01:44:22 PM »
I pray to Dear God that someone will shoot me if I live to the point where I have to resort to sharing my sob story over and over and over!


Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2007, 01:50:07 PM »
Westley, like I said "Whatever." It's your story make it as big as you want.  :D

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2007, 01:53:18 PM »
It's Wesley, not Westley!   Thought since you like to hyperfocus on the petty issues and are gona be stalking me all around the site you should at least know the correct spelling for future reference!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,707
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2007, 02:02:25 PM »


  Wheatley,

   I absolutely love your story.... and Wetley let me just tell you I am one of your biggest fans! 

  Skeebo... with an Oh!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2007, 02:27:54 PM »
And now we have the Chucky Doll in for reinforcement!

You two have fun playing.  I am off to a party, but I know how you love me!

I'm thinking of starting up a dedicated website for all my "fans"!

Ciao!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,707
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2007, 02:58:28 PM »


  Wently,

   What on earth do you mean?  I read your self... errr I mean your blogs all the time.   Please do start the fan club.... we can talk about Christian video games!

  Skeeb
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline ChaplinGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
  • Eat my left foot
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2007, 03:03:30 PM »

For some reason, my posts seem to start arguments. Please know that this is not my intention, gentlemen, I only meant to spark discussion and productive debate.

At ease, all.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2007, 02:10:04 AM »
I'm sorry your topic got derailed.  It's a good one and unfortunately I got fed up and fell into the set up. 

Please accept my appologies for allowing that to happen. 

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline indyguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 260
  • Hoosier Boy Single Again.
Re: HIV is not AIDS
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2007, 08:21:21 AM »
WOW...Does this topic need security ;D
Meds doing well so far.

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.