Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 01, 2014, 10:15:28 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
  • Total Members: 23368
  • Latest: donasim
Stats
  • Total Posts: 636844
  • Total Topics: 48339
  • Online Today: 229
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?  (Read 28421 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« on: February 11, 2007, 02:18:53 PM »
We've all read about superinfections or have heard personal stories of strains of the virus which are resistant to standard HAART treatments or that seem to progress rapidly.

I know there have been a few posts here recently about such cases in the news.   Is it media hype?   Or is it real?

I understand the concept of a person becoming resistant to standard medical therapies due to mutation of the virus etc.   But I'm not totally convinced there is a superviral infection.

Clearly, doctors advise safe sex even when both partners are positive, but to me it seems that if both partners were on meds that wouldn't the meds themselves act in a way as a sort of prophylactic?   In fact, last year there were news stories about some HIV pill that could be prescribed to a negative partner  (I forget the name)?

I've heard all sorts of theories and speculation.   I've even heard that perhaps some of these so called superinfections were likely people who went undiagnosed for so long.

I'm not sure what to think or believe anymore. 

One thing which does seem clear to me is that certain street drugs seem to act like a catalyst for HIV progression.   And, to me it would make sense that if someone was infected by a person who'd been on multiple HAART therapies that they could run an obvious risk of a resistance.  We know that from genotyping etc.

But is there really some new super virus? 

I don't know the answers or have a set opinion on all of these.    What does everyone else think about this subject?

« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 02:24:36 PM by AustinWesley »
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2007, 02:41:08 PM »
Superinfection.... I am no Dr. but I remember that about 2 years ago progressed from a fresh infection to Aids and death within 6 months. All drug combos failed on him and this was all proven. I guess he did have some kind of a super strain. The man was from New York but I don't remember his name.

As far as 2 hiv positives people having sex on a ha art therapy, ( I know I'm gonna get lynched for this but here it goes) as long as both viral loads are undetectable and both parties are on a ha art therapy I see little danger of a double infection or a supervirus evolving as the chances of infection with no or little viral load is nearly impossible. I Believe it has been proven on the other hand that when 2 viral strain come together they can take on each others traits and become much more vital and form a stronger virus and inherit drug resistance. To put it short I think two positive people having unsafe sex with a viral load to be a very bad idea, if both viral loads are undetectable then it may be something for the two too discuss. We are all grown up and responsible for ourselves.

As for the pill the day after, this is not always a specific pill, as far as I know this is a normal short ha art therapy which is taken as soon as possible after the exposure and then up to 1 month after.

Greetings from Berlin.

P.S. I read your myspace profile and laughed my ass off. I also lived in Hollywood between 1996 and 1998. I used to love the club firehouse and I remember a club hole in the wall called 7702, I got into allot of trouble there:-)

I especially like you attitude towards alc, and if one has to die your suggestion was a good one :-))

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 04:02:42 PM »
I have heard talk of superinfections. My old case manager was the one who brought it to my attention. I would guess that my strain is very tame, at least for now. Is this true that if 2 poz people w/ undetectable vl had unprotected sex it would be harder to pass it along to the other? Is there any proof to this or is this simply speculation? In any case, I think it would be something that both people should discuss. I think it would still be taking a chance. I'm interested to see where this thread goes.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 04:13:04 PM »
I'm just talkin' out my butt here... I think it is real, however I think it's rare.  We'd be hearing a LOT more about this if it was such a danger.

I read that paradoxically, our compromised immune systems which have produced HIV-antibodies actually confer a level of protection against new infections.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 05:00:18 PM »
Well, after ten years of being a rampant slut, I still have the same strain I've always had, and no other.
Guess the superinfection theory has a few... er.... holes.
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2007, 06:46:09 PM »
I asked both of my HIV doctors about it.

The female doc. who I just got rid of said we've seen a few incidents.   I didn't get the feeling she was being completely honest and wasn't really sure, but trying to scare me or something.   Air on the side of caution.

The other doc. who's not and ID doc, but has a lot more experience didn't seem particularly concerned about it.   The general feeling I got from him was that more of these difficult cases were the result of failure to adhere to various meds and some combo of rampant promiscuity ; )   I'm not quoting him cause I forget what he said exactly, but it went something like that.   

I know that he also said the risk was reduced the lower the viral load, but never eliminated.  I didn't ask him what he thought about unprotected sex between two individuals who were both undectable etc.   I guess for me personally if I happened to meet another pos. guy and was in a monogamous relationship I wouldn't be all that concerned and I'd probably just chance it.

To me I guess I'm really not all that concerned about some super virus or what not, I'm more concerned about all the other STDs out there that I wouldn't want to have with a compromised immune system.

Well, I guess we'll see who else weighs in. 

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline koi1

  • Member
  • Posts: 713
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2007, 06:48:48 PM »
The jury is out on super infection, however just giving it to someone, or picking up a drug resistant strain is enough to discourage me from having unprotected sex with anyone. Drrug resistance is real, but we all know that.

Cases for super infection:

 a strain that is resistant to one or more classes of drugs. I think it is possible for a virus that is resistant to all classes of drugs, with the right conditions, to develop.

Cases of an aggressive strain that kills you in a fraction of the time if left untreated or even treated

The Seattle cases have all been linked to drug users who are prone to progressing very quickly to AIDES. Afterall, many people on this website have said that they progressed quickly to AIDS from drug abuse. It is said that one hit ecstasy can lower your cd4 count by the hundreds.

I would just be careful just in case. But you knew I would say that.

Hate to be Debbie Downer
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 06:50:23 PM by koi1 »
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2007, 07:14:10 PM »
This might help you consider having unprotected sex with someone HIV+ with undetectable viral load.
This website has all the answers!
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/1667_10825.shtml
And the article in Spanish from the Bingo Clinic (were I was diagnosed: Bingo!)
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/salud/terapia/antiviral/reduce/riesgos/concepcion/natural/parejas/VIH/elpepusoc/20060314elpepisal_7/Tes
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 07:20:40 PM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline AustinWesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2007, 07:20:36 PM »
Thanks Blond,   I will ck that out.

I was just replying to Koi:

Hmm, I hadn't heard that about ecstasy, but about the only drug I ever do is smoke a little weed.   I don't think that counts as a drug ; )

But, the way you have defined some cases makes perfect sense to me.

Do you think it should be a major concern if your partner is on meds and you aren't?   

Like I said I don't claim to know any of the answers here and just for the record I'm not advocating unsafe sex.   In reality though most of us know what we are and aren't doing behind closed doors.

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline whizzer

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2007, 07:22:27 PM »
The article, and the study it was based on, concerned only penile/vaginal sex.  I would not draw strong inference from that to anal sex.


Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2007, 07:25:46 PM »
I donīt think weed can be considered a harmaful drug if used in moderation. It is far more natural than cigarretes and does not contain any toxic additives. If your partner is undectable but you are not you might pass to your partner your strain if that starin is resistant to the meds your partner is taking. Remember that the risk is below 1% but not zero...and as whizzer has pointed out receptive anal sex is much more risky than vaginal sex (object of the study).
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2007, 07:27:16 PM »
It is said that one hit ecstasy can lower your cd4 count by the hundreds.

I smell a big bunch of anti-drug propaganda BS with this one.

I had a nice coke addiction for months that didn't effect my viral load or CD4 levels... plus I've taken E a few times, and that hasn't seem to done anything at all either.

Granted, recreational drugs are not going to help you... in fact they almost definitely will hurt you in some way... but not as drastically as they say. 
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2007, 07:30:22 PM »
I smell a big bunch of anti-drug propaganda BS with this one.

I had a nice coke addiction for months that didn't effect my viral load or CD4 levels... plus I've taken E a few times, and that hasn't seem to done anything at all either.

Granted, recreational drugs are not going to help you... in fact they almost definitely will hurt you in some way... but not as drastically as they say. 
I don't think there's any serious study of the effect of Ecstasy on CD4 levels.  The general consensus among the docs and researchers I know about that particular drug is that it is one of the more innocuous ones out there.  There certainly are bigger battles to fight and more potential harm to be had from other drugs out there (i.e. meth and heroin).
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2007, 07:33:08 PM »
I don't think there's any serious study of the effect of Ecstasy on CD4 levels.  The general consensus among the docs and researchers I know about that particular drug is that it is one of the more innocuous ones out there.  There certainly are bigger battles to fight and more potential harm to be had from other drugs out there (i.e. meth and heroin).


Meth and heroin are so dangerous to the immune system mostly through their secondary effects, I think. 

Mainly, you're not sleeping (either as well in the case of heroin, or at all in the case of meth), not eating (and definitely not eating correctly), and generally not taking care of yourself.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2007, 08:09:23 PM »
I would have to agree that most drugs are dangerous to the immune system mostly from secondary effects... whether it's lack of sleep or appetite, or the impairment of judgment.    But, I guess that this is a topic for another thread.

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline koi1

  • Member
  • Posts: 713
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2007, 11:10:48 PM »
Geeze Louise,

Limited Point,

"I smell a big bunch of anti-drug propaganda BS with this one." (Benji's Pearl necklaces of wisdom)

Then you went on to  state the following:

"I had a nice coke addiction for months that didn't effect my viral load or CD4 levels... plus I've taken E a few times, and that hasn't seem to done anything at all either."

Leave me the fuck alone, I simply stating what the obvious.

All I can say is knock yourself out. Whoever agrees with you that recreational drugs are not harming your immune system, also needs a reality check. I know you are the authority on being a coke whore, but albeit a "classy" coke whore. Your posts smell to me as pro-drug caca-ganda. Shame on you! There are so many people who come to this website for guidance.

I hope they are smart enough to not listen to a faux intellectual, who went to oh my God William and Mary (no one on the west coast has ever heard of) college.

Once again who starts with the personal attacks? "You never stop do you?" LOL

And by the way a lot of us are sick of your tweeked out nonesensical rambling. Post when you're sober!!!

Knock it off biotch!



« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 11:20:26 PM by koi1 »
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2007, 11:31:42 PM »
Buzz.  Buzz.  Buzz.

I hear bees in someone's bonnet.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline scotttt

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2007, 11:46:21 PM »
LOL!  Good one Rob!!!!

No, Aupoint, the buzzing is probably coming from your well used vibrator stuck where the sun don't shine.  I am sure the reason you are hearing it is because your head is lodged up there as well!!!

You are no Oscar Wilde, so quit with the less than witty witticisms.  They are growing as tired as you look in your avatar pic. 

Yawn, and have another drink and if you aren't up to anything interesting this evening, take a look at what I wrote to you in the "Off-Topic" Anna Nicole post.
 


Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2007, 11:56:13 PM »
Geeze Louise,

Limited Point,

"I smell a big bunch of anti-drug propaganda BS with this one." (Benji's Pearl necklaces of wisdom)

Then you went on to  state the following:

"I had a nice coke addiction for months that didn't effect my viral load or CD4 levels... plus I've taken E a few times, and that hasn't seem to done anything at all either."

Leave me the fuck alone, I simply stating what the obvious.

All I can say is knock yourself out. Whoever agrees with you that recreational drugs are not harming your immune system, also needs a reality check. I know you are the authority on being a coke whore, but albeit a "classy" coke whore. Your posts smell to me as pro-drug caca-ganda. Shame on you! There are so many people who come to this website for guidance.

I hope they are smart enough to not listen to a faux intellectual, who went to oh my God William and Mary (no one on the west coast has ever heard of) college.

Once again who starts with the personal attacks? "You never stop do you?" LOL

And by the way a lot of us are sick of your tweeked out nonesensical rambling. Post when you're sober!!!

Knock it off biotch!

Hmm.  As much as I would love to be mature and ignore this completely.  I can't.

Let's see here... where do we begin?

Oh yes... let's start where I was responding to an statement that was made about the alleged immune-compromising effects of E.  I called the statement BS... nothing about you.  But apparently... strongly disagreeing with an assertion is an attack on you.  Good to know... duly noted. 

No one on the West Coast has heard of William and Mary?  Interesting.  Those rubes at the US News and World report consistently rank it as the best small public university in the United States and in the top 25 of all colleges in the United States. 

And if someone comes to this website for "guidance" and reads what I post about cocaine and then says, "Huzzah!  Now I can be just like Kate Moss!" then they're idiots and would probably die of drinking the pretty green antifreeze in the garage.  So no small loss there.

Furthermore... let's look a word about my statements regarding the classiness of coke addiction. 

Irony.

And here's a definition of irony.

i∑ro∑ny1      /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-]
Ėnoun, plural -nies.
1.   the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning

There are also many other forms of irony.  Like the irony of someone using the word "nonesensical" to mean what I can only assume is "nonsensical."  That's ironic.

And you have shamed me.  As much as one who can take such umbrage to every comment everyone makes that disagrees with him can.

Which is not at all.

"Biotch?"  What the cock is that shit?
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2007, 12:03:26 AM »
LOL!  Good one Rob!!!!

No, Aupoint, the buzzing is probably coming from your well used vibrator stuck where the sun don't shine.  I am sure the reason you are hearing it is because your head is lodged up there as well!!!

You are no Oscar Wilde, so quit with the less than witty witticisms.  They are growing as tired as you look in your avatar pic. 

Yawn, and have another drink and if you aren't up to anything interesting this evening, take a look at what I wrote to you in the "Off-Topic" Anna Nicole post.

Everyone is such a critic these days.  Le sigh.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline sdcabincrew74

  • Member
  • Posts: 540
    • My Manhunt account
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2007, 12:11:29 AM »
Ok, here is my take, once stable on meds, there is no documented case of being infected with a super bug.  In my years, I have also found that to be true, since I have more than my share of unprotected bareback and usually as the bottom and I always expect them to finish inside so to speak. 
The difference between an overnight and a layover is luck!

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,018
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2007, 12:12:07 AM »
It is said that one hit ecstasy can lower your cd4 count by the hundreds.

No.  But drug binges CAN make you skip doses.  I went though a farily hardcore second wind parting phase from '99 - 2001 and my cd4' continued to rise.  I'd say ecstasy is the safest of the recreational drugs.  Amphetamines like coke and meth are the bad ones.

Oh... and ketamine is even better in terms of not effecting you labs, as long as you still maintain your HIV medication schedule.  Of course, it depend somewhat on what HIv medications you are taking.  Ecastasy can raise blood pressure so if you're having issue without that already you may want to be moderate in your intake... and as always NEVER allow yourself to become dehydrated.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,018
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2007, 12:14:15 AM »
Geeze Louise,

Limited Point,

"I smell a big bunch of anti-drug propaganda BS with this one." (Benji's Pearl necklaces of wisdom)

Then you went on to  state the following:

"I had a nice coke addiction for months that didn't effect my viral load or CD4 levels... plus I've taken E a few times, and that hasn't seem to done anything at all either."

Leave me the fuck alone, I simply stating what the obvious.

All I can say is knock yourself out. Whoever agrees with you that recreational drugs are not harming your immune system, also needs a reality check. I know you are the authority on being a coke whore, but albeit a "classy" coke whore. Your posts smell to me as pro-drug caca-ganda. Shame on you! There are so many people who come to this website for guidance.

I hope they are smart enough to not listen to a faux intellectual, who went to oh my God William and Mary (no one on the west coast has ever heard of) college.

Once again who starts with the personal attacks? "You never stop do you?" LOL

And by the way a lot of us are sick of your tweeked out nonesensical rambling. Post when you're sober!!!

Knock it off biotch!


This commentary and it's tone was simply  not civil nor necessary, and it's not that first time from the particular poster.  You know, there ARE some of us who have been dealing with this longer than 3 months.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2007, 12:15:52 AM »
You know, there ARE some of us who have been dealing with this longer than 3 months.

But what do we know?

We are the lowest form of life.  Like amoebas.   Only high.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,018
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2007, 12:17:09 AM »
Maybe Keisha will reappear... she's been surprisingly absent.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2007, 12:22:29 AM »
Maybe Keisha will reappear... she's been surprisingly absent.

I miss her.

A lot.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline scotttt

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2007, 12:29:57 AM »
Forget Keisha, where is SD Girl, Aidsmeds own reigning queen of mean.  I suspect she might be flying on her broom somewhere over San Diego as we speak, or should I say, type.

She is always good at chewing someone a new one whenever that person stands up against the group think so prevalent on this website. 

Some of you sound like a bunch of trash talking seventh grade girls, trying to sound so hard core, when in fact you are merely insecure children hiding from your own boogeymen.

I love when the crew of Aupoint and Silly Philly strap on board.  You girls don't have a lot going on in your personal life do you, that is, to have so much time to troll this website.  Many of us are growing bored with your rantings.



Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2007, 12:39:33 AM »
Rrrriiiiigggghht.



You're getting bored?

It's nice to know we're here to amuse you.

All of us here at Druggy Sluts Entertainment Group will be sure to do better next time.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline scotttt

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2007, 12:51:22 AM »
"All of us here at Druggy Sluts Entertainment Group will be sure to do better next time."

LOL,

I actually would be more entertained by actuaql "druggie sluts" however your ramblings seem more to me like "Teenage Reform School Girl Wannabes" than bonafide "druggie sluts". BTW, you coined yourselves that, I didn't, but if the cheap "fuck me pumps" fit,.............



« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 12:53:04 AM by scotttt »

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2007, 12:56:08 AM »
"Teenage Reform School Girl Wannabes"

You have, contrary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, managed to come up with what is quite possibly one the most awesome band names ever.

Hats off.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,018
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2007, 02:01:28 AM »
"All of us here at Druggy Sluts Entertainment Group will be sure to do better next time."

LOL,

I actually would be more entertained by actuaql "druggie sluts" however your ramblings seem more to me like "Teenage Reform School Girl Wannabes" than bonafide "druggie sluts". BTW, you coined yourselves that, I didn't, but if the cheap "fuck me pumps" fit,.............


fascinating analysis... but hey ecstasy in moderation SURELY will kills us... I await your scientific statistical analysis on the edge of my seat.

From what I can tell it's the hardcore post-meth addicts, of which I *never* was one that get thrown into conniptions. 

And someone with 17 posts offers so much insight on things.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 02:05:22 AM by philly267 »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2007, 02:05:01 AM »
fascinating analysis

Indeed it was. 

I expected nothing less... something so brilliant it required words like "actuaql."
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2007, 02:21:39 AM »
And someone with 17 posts offers so much insight on things.

And you're forgetting the fact that this is also someone who has posted 17 times here and is, as far as I can tell from reading those 17 posts, HIV negative.

So many insights into who I am and what my life is like as someone who is actually HIV positive... it must be like omniscience or something.

I'm jealous.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 02:25:40 AM by aupointillimite »
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2007, 03:00:16 AM »
I don't think Austin started this thread for it to turn into a bitch fight over a person's drug of preference or a person's opinion of how drugs are bad. I see enough of that on drug commercials and it's always weed. Can we get back to the topic at hand....Super Infection. I don't know about you guys but I would like to know more about this and it's a pain in the ass to have wade through the insults and snipes. I would suggest starting a thread about pet peeves or something. Starting one to further insult someone or to give them the glamorous title of "Queen Of Mean". I'm wondering who would want such a title? I mean really, it doesn't take much effort to throw insults or be an asshole. Can we be adults here...*sheesh* :-\
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2007, 07:26:09 AM »
Cases for super infection:

 a strain that is resistant to one or more classes of drugs. I think it is possible for a virus that is resistant to all classes of drugs, with the right conditions, to develop.

Cases of an aggressive strain that kills you in a fraction of the time if left untreated or even treated
I prefer the term reinfection. Super infection is great for Fox News: News Flash, but I can't imagine it means much medically.  I think this definition is too narrow.  You can be reinfected with another strain, without that strain being resistant to meds (any meds).

It's clear this can happen.  What people don't know is how often it happens (which is important).  And what's the impact to disease progression (in the case where you are reinfected with a normal, garden-type variety of HIV, as I would assume is more likely to happen than being reinfected with a multi-drug resistant strain).

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 24,615
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2007, 08:03:09 AM »
Folks, the subject of this thread is superinfection.

The subject is not about an opportunity to snap and slash at someone whom you don't like or who irritates you or who has attacked you. If you can't speak civilly to each other then just keep your "witticisms" to yourself.

KO, Scott and Aupoint, consider yourselves warned.
Andy Velez

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2007, 08:35:59 AM »
As far as 2 hiv positives people having sex on a ha art therapy, ( I know I'm gonna get lynched for this but here it goes) as long as both viral loads are undetectable and both parties are on a ha art therapy I see little danger of a double infection or a supervirus evolving as the chances of infection with no or little viral load is nearly impossible.

No lynching from me, Ryeguy. ;)

Interesting hypothesis, but I for one wouldn't be willing to gamble to find out. To me it wouldn't be worth the risk.

I was advised early after diagnosis to take precautions against getting doubly- or re-infected, and that still makes the most sense to me.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2007, 08:48:36 AM »
Ah... since conversation may be returning to a civil tone, I'll jump in here and attempt to not piss anyone off.

Is super-infection real?  Umm.... yeah!  What causes it?  A combination of natural selection (survival of the fittest) among constantly mutating virus and persons not protecting themselves from infection.  HIV is notoritously sloppy when it reproduces, making copies with random mutations at a unusually high rate for any organism.  Eventually, some of those copies have the right mutation for not succumbing to a particular drug, and drug-resistant virus arises.  If the drug-resistant bugs make copies of themselves with additional mutations, those new bugs may have a shot at surviving in the face of additional drugs.  Now, take any of those bugs and inject them--in the arm, up the ass--into a person not taking meds to which the heavily-mutated bugs are not resistant, and you'll get super-infection on top of whatever low levels of "wild type" or otherwise resistant virus the infectee may have.

BTW... a mathematical model of the super-infection scenario is very compelling for the probability and statistics geeks among us.  Sadly, the last time I saw one was about 15 years ago related to resistance to monotherapies.

Cheers,
David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2007, 09:08:46 AM »
And by the way a lot of us are sick of your tweeked out nonesensical rambling. Post when you're sober!!!

Speak for yourself.

Whether he's sober or drunk aupoint's posts are intelligent, coherent, grammatically correct, and not riddled with typos and misspellings.   

And he has a sense of humor.

Boo

P.S.  In defending himself aupoint has done nothing to deserve a warning from the mods, unlike the two who have insulted him repeatedly. 
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline carousel

  • Member
  • Posts: 821
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2007, 09:20:34 AM »
.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 09:09:02 AM by carousel »

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2007, 09:23:53 AM »
I've heard a lot about super infection, not many people who actually have been through it. 

I'm more worried about issues of co-infection.

You're right... they talk about it a lot... but there don't seem to be too many numbers or studies on the issue.  At least none that I'm aware of.

It seems to be that it can happen... but not nearly as often as we're being told... but if it does happen, you can be royally screwed.

I think that co-infection with something else is much more likely to happen as well.  I don't even want to imagine the fun that is a herpes infection with a compromised immune system.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline carousel

  • Member
  • Posts: 821
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2007, 09:37:18 AM »
.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 09:07:52 AM by carousel »

Offline scotttt

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2007, 09:44:17 AM »
Boo,

Alas, you use the "spelling and typo" card, often the last ditch effort of a person who cannot make a clear and well reasoned point.  Rob makes excellent points, I guess he hasn't refined his secretarial skills as much as Aupoint has.

Aupoint,

I have to correct one factual error in your previous posts.  The reason no one on the west coast has heard of "William and Mary" is simply because it is not ranked among the top NATIONAL universities by US NEWS.  It is nowhere to be found in the list of top NATIONAL universities.  Even though Rob and I both went to top Nationally ranked universities (UCLA and Berkeley) I am not one to be a snob about where a person did or did not attend college.  However, before one brags about where one went to college, one should make sure he or she has something concrete to brag about.

BTW, I was taught in law school that using Latin to drive home a point is passe and often used by attorneys with less than impressive educational pedigrees.  Just sayin'.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 09:51:42 AM by scotttt »

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2007, 10:04:30 AM »
Boo,

Alas, you use the "spelling and typo" card, often the last ditch effort of a person who cannot make a clear and well reasoned point.  Rob makes excellent points, I guess he hasn't refined his secretarial skills as much as Aupoint has.

It's odd that you don't contradict my comments about the lack of intelligent, coherent, grammatically correct posts but select misspelling.

By the way, if you check out the list on the US News and World Report site you'll find William and Mary at #31:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php

Maybe the west coast edition doesn't include east coast instiitutions....

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Grinch

  • Member
  • Posts: 325
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2007, 10:10:33 AM »
Super-Infection is a bad term.
Think about this:
  The HIV virus is so deadly because it mutates.
   Introducing a virus that is different than the one you currently have can lead to a new mutation that your body and meds may not be able to fight.
  It would be fairly difficult to then say "This is a super-infection!"  Instead the diagnosis would be: "Your virus has become resistant to your current meds."

Super-infection implies some ultra resistant virus. Of more concern would be any mutation that effects your body and meds ability to fight it.

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2007, 10:19:35 AM »
You're right... they talk about it a lot... but there don't seem to be too many numbers or studies on the issue.  At least none that I'm aware of.  It seems to be that it can happen... but not nearly as often as we're being told... but if it does happen, you can be royally screwed.

I think that co-infection with something else is much more likely to happen as well.  I don't even want to imagine the fun that is a herpes infection with a compromised immune system.

Aren't the numbers on new infections that present with drug resistance enough?  Apply those across HIVers on HAART having unprotected sex, and there would be some numbers to consider as a base.  The ethical considerations of a "study" for super-inection would seem to be non-starters, though.  As for super-infection being a "bad term," it's the appropriate medical term and simply means picking up a bug that you already have, except the new one is resistant to a drug.

As for co-infection, acquiring other STIs should be a consideration fpr HIVers having unprotected sex.  Chlamyidia, gonorrhea, syphilis and herpes may be present and transmissible without observable symptoms, as are the hepatitis viruses.  I stopped fucking raw two years ago after getting a nasty "garden-variety" urinary tract infection from a hottie's ass in Houston--I would have almost rather had a blister on my cock head or have it oozing puss than feeling like my urethra was on fire for several days!

-D
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,878
  • the one and original newt
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2007, 10:24:41 AM »
"super-infection" means infection over the top of the original one(s), not resistant or stronger, like super-structure (not super-size...).
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Londonguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 104
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2007, 11:04:11 AM »
"super-infection" means infection over the top of the original one(s), not resistant or stronger, like super-structure (not super-size...).

This is what I thought and this thread was confusing me because everyone seems to mean different things in their posts.

Anyway from what I have read and heard from my doctors, it's something which is very rare and to be honest it isn'tsomething I worry about.  There appears to be hardly any documentated reports of it.  I think I read one a while ago,but the fact that such a big deal was made over it does seem to show that it doesn't happen very often.

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2007, 11:50:46 AM »
This is what I thought and this thread was confusing me because everyone seems to mean different things in their posts.Anyway from what I have read and heard from my doctors, it's something which is very rare and to be honest it isn'tsomething I worry about.  There appears to be hardly any documentated reports of it.  I think I read one a while ago,but the fact that such a big deal was made over it does seem to show that it doesn't happen very often.

Again, it's a question of statistics and probabilities, but the result of "super-infection" would be the same:  you acquire and persist virus with a genetic profile different from the bugs you have.  The only way that happens is if the new bugs are resistant to meds you are taking.

While sensational alarms over "super-virus" have caused many to be suspicious of super-infection claims, I would venture that treatment failures over the last ten years have been more due to super-infection, rather than the course of a subject's own bugs.  That a clinician would not not think this to be the case suggests that s/he has either not seen treatment failures or thought much about the sex lives of the people s/he treats.
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline scotttt

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
Re: Superinfection! Is it real and what causes it?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2007, 12:09:10 PM »
Correction,

William and Mary is ranked among regional schools not national schools.  Regional schools represent the educational minor league, whereas nationally ranked schools represent the educational major league.  Nuance, my friend, nuance.


 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.