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Author Topic: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?  (Read 10201 times)

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Offline egello

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  • cb
Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2007, 12:30:17 PM »
Hey Wes,

Yeah, there are those too, as well as lots of meth addicts who takes hiv meds as well. We really shouldn't generalize certain group of people soley on little encounter we have with them.

The hard core theorists and people who advocates their theories with say passion, however, are well organzied, smart, well read and thoughtful people in my encounters. They consider themselves as sort of revolutionaries and ones that are not brainwashed by the mainstream hype.

Just as they shouldn't critisize hiv/aids believers without thoroughly exmining the clinical datas and complexity of science regarding AIDS, we shouldn't blatantly criticize them for being this and that. Their heart comes from complex mixture of love of naturalness (including healing and sex) and hatred of capitalism and the poison it creates in social and scientifc behavior of human species.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2007, 12:36:33 PM »
At any rate, I disagree with you about whether or not these people are prosletyzing to children.

I'm not talking about proselytizing children, I'm talking about child neglect in denying an HIV+ child the healthcare he/she needs.   I know there aren't a lot of Christine Maggiore's out there (I hope) but there are still some. 

Parents who believe Jesus will cure their child of cancer and refuse to seek medical treatment can have the child removed from their negligent care by children's' welfare agencies and I have no problem with that at all.  Child abuse can be caused by flagrant acts of omission as well as commission.  The state has an interest in protecting the health of minors and although it's impossible to identify every case it should act vigorously when such patent cases of abuse are discovered.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline egello

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2007, 12:56:08 PM »
just to let everyone know, her daughter was never tested for hiv, so we don't know if she was or not.

also, she has another son who supposedly recently tested negative
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2007, 01:13:30 PM »
The hard core theorists and people who advocates their theories with say passion, however, are well organzied, smart, well read and thoughtful people in my encounters. They consider themselves as sort of revolutionaries and ones that are not brainwashed by the mainstream hype.

The revolution they incite has been invalid for years.  The USA might as well declare independence from Great Britain again.  I'm not part of mainstream anything and am very skeptical of de facto authority but I can read and analyze the mountains of data which clearly show HIV exists and is the primary factor in development of AIDS.  This factual information comes from too many independent researchers around the world for anyone to brand it as mainstream hype.

Quote
Just as they shouldn't critisize hiv/aids believers without thoroughly exmining the clinical datas and complexity of science regarding AIDS, we shouldn't blatantly criticize them for being this and that. Their heart comes from complex mixture of love of naturalness (including healing and sex) and hatred of capitalism and the poison it creates in social and scientifc behavior of human species.

I agree the human heart (as a function of the mind) is complex but we're talking about life and death here.  Denialists might as well declare yersinia pestis, the bacteria which caused the Black Plague, is actually harmless, or that shooting up heroin daily is a healthful practice.   If their beliefs and goals were harmless I wouldn't pay any attention but in my mind they might as well be KKK members lynching people.  They don't string anyone up but provide the rope and misinformation to cause gullible people to hang themselves. 

AIDS is the first epidemic of its kind in human history.  It's uniqueness makes it possible for people to be infected and infect others for years before any clinical symptoms arise.  In the early years of the epidemic some denialists raised what were then valid questions but those questions have all been answered and are no longer valid, but denialists refuse to accept the facts, for reasons I cannot understand.   

I don't usually exert so much effort arguing about my beliefs but with this topic I'll argue until my last breath.  If I were cynical enough I'd laugh off denialists and their followers as fodder for the Darwin Awards but I haven't gotten there yet.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2007, 01:30:04 PM »
OK.  Id like to pick a fight.  Point me towards the denailist forums/websites and give me a shove!  Where do you FIND these people?  Seriously!  I "discuss" religion on occaision on "their turf", so might as well have that discussion with the denialists.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline egello

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2007, 01:50:48 PM »
u sure about this?

MSN forum : [blocked URL]EXPOSED and also SCIENTIFICDEBATE

before you pick a fight, you should read all their defense theories because they got pretty good answers for anything you throw at them

also to let you know, they have been through a lot, even prime hiv scientists, doctors and researchers have come on to argue with them...

good luck and let us konw how it goes
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2007, 01:51:58 PM »
OK.  Id like to pick a fight.  Point me towards the denailist forums/websites and give me a shove!  Where do you FIND these people?  Seriously!  I "discuss" religion on occaision on "their turf", so might as well have that discussion with the denialists.

I don't know if SMF is similar to the old forum software but on the old forums the denialists' websites were actually banned words.  If you do a google search for "AIDS dissidents" you'll come across several of the larger ones like [blocked URL].org (you see, I told you they're banned words -- I'll PM you) and once you're on one site there are links to most of the others.

But, AC, I sincerely suggest contemplating your navel for hours instead of getting into any "discussion" with any of these folks.  Or just bang your head against a brick wall a few times to achieve similar results.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2007, 01:56:39 PM »
Ah, I wont spend an inordinate amount of energy trying to piss them off.  But I am VERY effecient at it.  I'm not going to try to change their minds by ANY stretch of the imagination.  Sometimes I just itch to piss people off just for enjoyment purposes and I dont do it to those I respect, I dont do it on here or with my friends or family.  So I pick the religious wackos and now these guys. 

I dont try to win any debate as much as turn shit back around at em.  Unfortunately one of my greatest talents in life is to be able to find your buttons and push them till you splode!  It's fun to watch.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline megasept

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  • Steven here...
I almost died believing in them,,,,what do you guys all think about them?

Well, that's the bottom line, isn't it?

Engaging a crackpot in a long debate (it's different to discredit them, briefly, in front of the non-commited), is another form of craziness, and is actually falling into a trap fueled by our righteous anger. I steer away from that. They like attention like it was mother's milk. I don't even want to look like a "sick-o"---being actually sick is enough for me!

While Duesburg had the attention of many of us (yep, yours truly until maybe 1990), like a good infection, they look for a warm place to grow...like the Republic of South Africa. If you want to see a real battle with the Denialists (led by Pres. Mbeki), learn about TAC (Treatment Action Coalition) and their upfront, somewhat successful, courageous war with these shitheads and their sporn. Aiding TAC (money wouldn't hurt, for those of you with dollars collecting dust) in a place in the world with much worse health than the First World, particularly due to HIV, seems the best way to do some good and get in "some digs" or our own as well.

If various polls are to be believed a slight majority of young US African American youth seem to be open to one or another conspiracy theory regarding AIDS, its origins ("CIA experiment, another 'Tuskeegee', etc), hidden cures ("keep us sick to make money"), etc. That is tremendous threat to diagnosis and treatment. It is one of many causes of the terrible growth of hiv-infected within the African-American population. It These ideas circulate everywhere, and not just word-of-mouth. A & U magazine featured a celebrity supporter not long ago---who is a casual hiv denialist--great help! We best do battle by choosing our targets carefully, and mostly by patiently educating (not so much arguing) with a clear, moderate, and science-based message.  8) -megasept

Offline David_CA

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2007, 03:11:08 PM »

For the record...it's not me!

I was just going to ask if it was you!  Just kidding, you know.  ;)

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Boo Radley

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A & U magazine featured a celebrity supporter not long ago---who is a casual hiv denialist--great help!

Don't get me started on A&U.  I haven't seen an issue in years but about 4 - 5 years ago Patricia Nell Warren was a monthly columnist and after she wrote a dubious piece I checked out her website and found quite a few "op-ed" pieces in support of HIV denialists.  I emailed her directly and we had a short, civil correspondence in which she skirted my direct question and claimed she wrote about all sorts of views on different topics.

A few months later I posted a response about her on a listserv list (well, it's really listproc list but no one calls them that) and, lo and behold, one of the other list members sent her my email (for reasons I won't delve into I was using an email address of ClaudeDaigle@bellsouth.net on the list so she didn't realize it was me).  She wrote a nasty response back about anonymous, unjust accusations and free speech and such so I simply gathered a few links to some of her more outlandish pieces and posted them to the listserv.  Then we really had fun because the other listmembers knew me for the curmudgeonly crackpot I am but, more importantly, they realized she was talking out of her hat (or something...) and challenged her to answer my original question, "Are you an HIV denialist?"  This went on for a few days but she refused to answer the question even though her pieces made it quite obvious.

I haven't had that much fun in ages.

Boo

P.S.  Here are links to a couple of her "AIDS dissent" articles:

http://wildcatintl.com/partners/pnw/editorials/archive/ed_15.html

http://wildcatintl.com/partners/pnw/editorials/archive/ed_13.html

I couldn't find one link I really wanted to post, to an article in which she claimed HIV was around during the time of the Black Plague because of the genetic mutation which confers HIV immunity to some -- the problem is the mutation evolved over the centuries in resistance to the plague and it is only coincidence that HIV attacks the same receptor (excuse me if I have oversimplified this...).
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 03:49:27 PM by Boo Radley »
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline DanielMark

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2007, 03:20:20 PM »
To answer the original question, I'd have to say I don't think about them. I also don't think about a lot of other things I find insane. As to debating people like that, I like that old saying:

Only a fool argues with an idiot.

or is it

Only an idiot argues with a fool?

Daniel

MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2007, 04:31:28 PM »
WOW!  Just at first glance, those fuckers are LOONEY TUNES and MILITANT!  Havent quite decided how to best push buttons over there but I am at work right now so I'm focused on other things as well.  I shall keep you abreast of what I decide to do.  Hopefully they dont have any spies over here?!?!?!?!

They just declared WAR on us.  So we will see.  Actually, I hope they start a WAR ON HIV campaign!  It hasnt worked out so well for them regarding the War on Drugs or the War on Terror.  Everytime they declare war on something they dont end up winning it, but MONEY gets thrown at it like nobodies business!  Maybe Ryan White would benefit from a little War with those TARDS!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline AustinWesley

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Don't get me started on A&U.  I haven't seen an issue in years but about 4 - 5 years ago Patricia Nell Warren was a monthly columnist and after she wrote a dubious piece I checked out her website and found quite a few "op-ed" pieces in support of HIV denialists.  I emailed her directly and we had a short, civil correspondence in which she skirted my direct question and claimed she wrote about all sorts of views on different topics.

A few months later I posted a response about her on a listserv list (well, it's really listproc list but no one calls them that) and, lo and behold, one of the other list members sent her my email (for reasons I won't delve into I was using an email address of ClaudeDaigle@bellsouth.net on the list so she didn't realize it was me).  She wrote a nasty response back about anonymous, unjust accusations and free speech and such so I simply gathered a few links to some of her more outlandish pieces and posted them to the listserv.  Then we really had fun because the other listmembers knew me for the curmudgeonly crackpot I am but, more importantly, they realized she was talking out of her hat (or something...) and challenged her to answer my original question, "Are you an HIV denialist?"  This went on for a few days but she refused to answer the question even though her pieces made it quite obvious.

I haven't had that much fun in ages.



P.S.  Here are links to a couple of her "AIDS dissent" articles:

http://wildcatintl.com/partners/pnw/editorials/archive/ed_15.html

http://wildcatintl.com/partners/pnw/editorials/archive/ed_13.html

I couldn't find one link I really wanted to post, to an article in which she claimed HIV was around during the time of the Black Plague because of the genetic mutation which confers HIV immunity to some -- the problem is the mutation evolved over the centuries in resistance to the plague and it is only coincidence that HIV attacks the same receptor (excuse me if I have oversimplified this...).

Boo

Hey Boo,

Wow talk about a Wolf in Sheeps clothing.   Both of those articles seem to geared at free speech and sharing unbiased views, but clearly she slants the subject to her own Kooky beliefs.   

I've never heard of her before and fortunately it appears most haven't.

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2007, 07:37:39 PM »
Dear All,

Wanting to know what dissidents and denialists are about is understandable. And holding an unpopular position is by no means automatically proof that the position is unfounded. But there is of course absolutely no valid basis in HIV science to their position and that's been well documented for many years.

I don't feel any pity or sorrow for them as a group. I've witnessed how they consider they have the right to express their position in any way they choose including as violently as they want to. Their self righteousness knows no bounds in terms of what they will do to anyone who disagrees with them.

I'll go ahead and make an interpretation about Maggiore's behavior. As a parent her choices in effect caused the death of her child. That's a mighty burden to live with. So she has found a way to shift the blame away from herself and to deny HIV/AIDS was the cause. Very convenient two-stepping there.

I remember when the denialists were first being heard from way back when. At the time all kinds of possible treatments were being proposed. So much was still new and uncertain about HIV/AIDS. We're long past that now and have been for a long while. But many people in good faith and trust and desperation listened to the denialists and those people are dead now. Dead. Gone forever. And yes, I think at least some of them could have survived long enough for the new meds to give them a better chance to live longer.

So as far as I am concerned the denialists have blood on their hands. And not just symbolically. 

I understand the reason the links have been provided to the information. But I ask now that no additional links be provided here. If anyone feels they want more "information" about them then google them on the web. Let's not provide them with any more of a platform here for their heinous crap. With everything else we all deal with living with HIV/AIDS, this denialist stuff is just an added really disgusting element.  

And Boo, please don't misunderstand. I am not in anyway meaning to criticize you for the links you posted. I know you put them up in good faith in the context of this discussion. I just don't want anymore added beyond what has already been put up.

I know that Peter, Tim and I feel no less strongly about this issue than I do.

  
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 07:41:57 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2007, 09:44:59 PM »
I understand the reason the links have been provided to the information. But I ask now that no additional links be provided here. If anyone feels they want more "information" about them then google them on the web. Let's not provide them with any more of a platform here for their heinous crap. With everything else we all deal with living with HIV/AIDS, this denialist stuff is just an added really disgusting element.  

And Boo, please don't misunderstand. I am not in anyway meaning to criticize you for the links you posted. I know you put them up in good faith in the context of this discussion. I just don't want anymore added beyond what has already been put up.

Andy,

I am a bit confused -- are we talking about this specific thread or all future posts?  It's not likely I'd post any more links to Warren's website since both links to the 7 year old pieces provided were ample evidence of her lack of credibility. 

But, Andy, here is why I'm asking -- say in a few months someone mentions the Foo Fighters, a band I've never particularly liked.  I'd be likely to write a response stating several members of the band embraced denialism several years ago and if they've since renounced their mistake I'm unaware of it.  I might even link to the Foo Fighters site if there was a link to XXXXXmyth.crap still on their site.  Would such a link be inappropriate?   Would a link to an LA Times article about the death of Maggiore's daughter be inappropriate in this discussion?  I almost placed it in a previous post.

I also want to be clear about discussing denialism and denialists on the forums.  If we don't put up links to their or other comparable propaganda sites we're OK mentioning names like Duesberg and Maggiore and Mullins, etc.?

I'm not trying to make a federal case out of this but I don't want to violate the TOS now or in the future.  I also feel very strongly about denialism and will undoubtedly post a response when the topic arises again.

I would have PMed these questions but think this information will help all concerned.  Thanks!

Boo
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 09:56:52 PM by Boo Radley »
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2007, 10:27:00 PM »
There is a porn performer (I won't use the term star, because just about anyone could do what he does) who advocates for these denialists on his web site.

I, once upon a time, thought this individual was rather sexy. But when I saw that on his site, he lost all appeal.

I should note, this performer is most well known for his barebacking videos.

SHUDDER,

Mark


I know who you are talking about.  He used to post on the Atkol forums which are porn oriented and besides his denialism also has serious mental health issues.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2007, 11:29:55 PM »
I tend to agree with Boo.  I don't think providing a link is going to provide those kooks with any additional platform.   I tend to equate those denialists with the Anti-Christ, but it's still interesting when someone provides a link to some of these kooks especially when using those links to discredit them.

I wouldn't be for censoring out links under the context of this thread.   
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline egello

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2007, 01:20:48 AM »
nothing works, i tell you... Even death can't!

They got all corners covered and reason for every illness, death, research, clinical data and medical outcome. When someone like me come along, they keep quiet until I go away or die away somewhere, then they start afresh.

They seem to be all about theories, philosophies of way things should be and just rambling and mistrust of everything.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2007, 08:13:01 AM »
Boo, should another occasion come up in the future, let's deal with that on an instance by instance basis. We really don't want to get into a strict censorship role here.

Also, since threads are archived, should the issue come up again, people could be referred back to this thread.

As I said I understand and appreciate your intention and that of others regarding this issue. So let's just be mindful of disseminating information without lending support to those heinous denialists.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

Cheers,



 
Andy Velez

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2007, 08:26:55 AM »
When I think of what I'd like to say to AIDS denialists, it much the same thing as I would say to someone who thinks the Earth is flat and the universe is geocentric.

Quaint... but clearly an idiot.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2007, 01:04:21 AM »
You guys still have to understand where the dissidents are coming from

Well this ex-dissident (me) came from a cum-hungry place. I'm not gonna lie. I fell prey to their crap theories. I never once tried to convert other dudes to the denialist mentality - Quite frankly I was too busy barebacking (with guys who never spoke about status. Never.) I assume from my personal experiences that a subculture was born, where if you were a guy who never uttered a word about status but were big-time into barebacking, well, then your status was poz and having unprotected anal sex with other "don't ask don't tell" barebackers meant that they were poz guys too.

If a denialist *ever* tries to pipe up here at AIDSmeds, I will cheerfully rip them to smithereens. As an ex-denialist I am well-qualified for such a task. Ann honey, you know I will!  ;D

Offline egello

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2007, 02:32:25 AM »
ok, i know i know, we are all emotional about them and how dangerous they can be. However, as an ex denialist and just questioning dumb pathetic sick punk that I am, I have to make a few correction in orthodox's views. THEY DON'T CONDONE BAREBACK SEX! They consider that to be very "toxic" behavior

1. because man's sperm itself contains very immusuppressive agents.
2. Other various STD, known and unknown that can be spread and over time, will kill the host.

Barebacking denialist are just bunch of horn dogs who just takes one statement from their theories and uses it to satisfy their penis.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Ann

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2007, 10:39:14 AM »
If a denialist *ever* tries to pipe up here at AIDSmeds, I will cheerfully rip them to smithereens. As an ex-denialist I am well-qualified for such a task. Ann honey, you know I will!  ;D

Um, no you won't Alex, you'll hit the report button to alert us to their presence and leave it to us to delete the thread/post and ban them from the site. Please do not engage them - it will only encourage them to come back for more.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2007, 10:40:32 AM »
ok, i know i know, we are all emotional about them and how dangerous they can be. However, as an ex denialist and just questioning dumb pathetic sick punk that I am, I have to make a few correction in orthodox's views. THEY DON'T CONDONE BAREBACK SEX! They consider that to be very "toxic" behavior

1. because man's sperm itself contains very immusuppressive agents.
2. Other various STD, known and unknown that can be spread and over time, will kill the host.

Barebacking denialist are just bunch of horn dogs who just takes one statement from their theories and uses it to satisfy their penis.

Egello, that's not true of all of them. There have been ones who have posted on this site who claim that CONDOMS are toxic.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline egello

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2007, 12:28:56 PM »
hi Ann

sorry, not to start any sort of argument, those who claim that condoms are "toxic" they have their sources from some peopel who are extremely allergic to latex, and they use that one argument to satisfy their bareback theory or desire. If their "literature" is read carefully and to the full extant, and not just to satisfy one's idea of sexual freedom and blah blah blah, one would find that barebacking is not safe.

Also in the older days, they used Benzene for the lube which is highly toxic substance in someone's intestine.

so c, with them, there are all sorts of different layers or dissidency.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Ann

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2007, 01:50:35 PM »
egello,

I'm not going to engage in argument either - but you and I have obviously read different denialist materials. There's a lot of it out there and many different factions as well. But, I know what I've read and I know there are some who claim condoms (and the lubes used on them) are toxic and is one of the factors that creates a weak immune system.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2007, 02:08:44 PM »
But, I know what I've read and I know there are some who claim condoms (and the lubes used on them) are toxic and is one of the factors that creates a weak immune system.

So... if they ever need surgery, do they demand the doctor not wear latex gloves?

I'm not trying to be cute, by the by. 
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Ann

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2007, 02:16:10 PM »
So... if they ever need surgery, do they demand the doctor not wear latex gloves?

I'm not trying to be cute, by the by. 

I couldn't tell you. Probably not though, their arguments aren't exactly the most consistent I've ever read.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline egello

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2007, 02:42:57 PM »
yeah, some people are extremely allergic to latex

do google search

thats why there are some condoms now or is developing non latex based condoms
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Ann

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2007, 03:48:34 PM »
egello,

I know about latex allergies and sensitivities. I'm sensitive to latex (but not allergic) myself. That's what polyurethane condoms are for. I'm not talking about allergies or sensitivities, I'm talking about alleged chemical toxicities.

For anyone who is wondering, this condom toxicity bunkum from the denialists is just that - bunkum.

The latex allergies and sensitivities are real enough though.

Nonoxynol-9 (a spermicide sometimes found on condoms) can also be an irritant for some people. Condoms with N-9 on them are not recommended for anal intercourse for this reason. This isn't what we're (well, not what I'm...) talking about either.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2007, 04:04:14 PM »
I couldn't tell you. Probably not though, their arguments aren't exactly the most consistent I've ever read.



Besides their stories being inconsistent they will shovel out crap until the cows come home.  First, I don't get the obsession with sperm or latex or whatever else.

What I've noticed is that much like the religious cults they will cator to each individual to determine your weakest link and attempt to convince you to join into their lair of insanity.   There are different reasons they attempt to suck people in, some more sinister than others.

It's consistent with any cult, religious or other.   The techniques are the same.   They will pray upon any individual who is seeking a community, sense of family, or some type of acceptance.    Anyone who's been downtrodend by society, with low self esteem, uneducated, or going through a personal crisis is a prime target.

I find these people are nothing more than sociopaths, some worse than others!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2007, 12:58:10 PM »
Um, no you won't Alex, you'll hit the report button to alert us to their presence and leave it to us to delete the thread/post and ban them from the site. Please do not engage them - it will only encourage them to come back for more.

Ann


Hi Ann - Many thanks for the reminder. I'll use the Moderator button. My foot is exiting my mouth as I type. I've never dealt with them in cyberspace, and after what you wrote, it's easy to imagine them "coming back" if engaged.

Egello, Ann is correct in saying there are different factions in the dissident world. Some are profiteers, some have delusions of winning the Nobel Peace Prize(:o!), some are angry and sinister and out to achieve who-knows-what, some are clueless airheads like I used to be, the list goes on and on. The common denominators are: They're all dangerous and wrong and their wacko shite comes to us from the sixth circle of hell!

A big thank you to the Moderator team for keeping dissidents out of this site 

Alex

Offline redhotmuslbear

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2007, 01:09:38 PM »
YIKES!

Let me get my necklace of garlic on, load the gun with silver bullets, and lay the kindling under the eight-foot stake out back.  HIV denialists are deranged and dangerous, and I've had plenty kicked off of their ISPs for harassment over the last decade.




....SSSHHHH!!!!   I'm the father of Anna Nicole's baby, thanks to sperm washing during an alien abduction.  Angels are bringing me gold plates bearing her real burial instructions, too!
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline playwithmeplz

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Re: AIDS Dissidents, what do you all think about them?
« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2007, 01:34:57 PM »
I almost died believing in them,,,,what do you guys all think about them?
They are a real threat! It is unfortunate that people can choose to remain ignorant.

 


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