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Author Topic: should I worry? or am over sensitive?  (Read 3999 times)

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Offline guoyp

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should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« on: February 03, 2007, 06:42:22 PM »
Hi, I have been reading this forum for the past few days, and I am amazed by how helpful and supportive people here are.

About 6 days ago, I had my first one night stand with a girl whom I don't know much, and we met through internet. We had a deep kiss and she gave me a blow job which I didn't ask for. After about 40 seconds, I realized there might be a risk for HIV infection, so I stopped her. She got very mad and left.

I know you guys may just say, okie, there is no risk. But you all know the "theoretical risk" and "documented risk", I keep worrying about the deep kiss even more about the blow job, since the health condition of my mouth is not so good. Every time I brush my teeth, I got some kind of serious bleeding, but it rarely bleeds if I don't brush. So this still makes me very worried. Especially when I learned there indeed is a case of HIV transmission through deep kiss reported by CNN in 1997, and this is the first and so far the only oral HIV infection case. The virus was in the blood contained in the saliva.

My worries are based on the assumption that she is HIV positive, however, her status is unknown. Well, actually it's 50% known. yea, I know it's confusing, but here is the story. The next day, I called her and urged her to do a HIV test. To my surprise, she asked me to pay her for the expense and I agreed (I didn't know the test was actually free). Then she came back one day later and showed me the Oraquick Rapid test report over the web camera as I requested, and the result was negative. I kept a record of the result with photos taken by the camera, and she didn't know. Then she asked $1,000 from me, and I refused (I would pay if she asked sth around 100). She closed the camera, and then sent me an Email saying the record is actually fake. I have no idea whether this is true, but the record itself doesn't look like fake. The easiest way to release myself is to check whether the report is real. I know it may not be legal if I do it as a person, but can at least some organizations like CDC go check it? The photo has her last name, control number, agency name, everything. If it's indeed fake, then the girl may conduct some crime, since this may not be the first time she does this for money: threat some one she may be HIV+, and ask money for a free test, and come back with a fake test result.

However, even if she was indeed negative, there was no guarantee that she didn't have unprotected sex in the past few weeks. As I recall, during our chat, she mentioned she didn't have any kind of sex in the past few months. But again, people lie about their sexual history.

thank you for reading my story, it's quite long. here is a short list of my questions:

1. I want to get over this thing asap, so I'm actually considering the PCR test. But why I have to wait to at least 28 days? If PCR detects the virus itself, couldn't it be done anytime? I learned from your website that it can be done within 24-72 hours right after the risky exposure. So why we have to wait for 28 days at least?

2. Does PCR ever yield a false negative test?

3. a negative PCR at 28 days later along with a negative Oraquick will let me get out of all these? or I still have to take another antibody test 3 months later?

4. where can I do a PCR in new york?

5. Should I call police about the potential crime? not only to check the result

thank you very much for sharing your opinions and your time!!!

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 06:53:01 PM »
I've never heard of this so-called documented case of HIV transmitted through deep kissing, and I don't buy it.  You had no risk for HIV from the events you described, so I would not worry in the least about where to get a PCR test in NY.  Really, man...you can get over your worries a lot cheaper and quicker if you just read through the Welcome Section here and the Lessons about HIV transmission.  Frankly, I'd be much more concerned about freak woman over there that is trying to play on your anxieties about HIV to soak you for $1,000.  You'll be fine as soon as you cut her loose from your life.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 07:11:15 PM »
Call the cops, yeah go ahead they'll laugh at you. You might even get a ticket for being a John. You are the one that ask her to do the test and you backed out after she told you how much. There was no reason to involve her in the first place. PCR RNA can be done after 1 week. A P24 has to be done within 3 weeks of possible exposure and the ELISA can be done at 6 weeks with a conclusive test at 13 weeks.

edited to make a correction in PCR RNA testing time line.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 07:21:27 AM by RapidRod »

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 07:23:12 PM »
I must have misread the initial post.  Anyway...I did a little browsing through  CNN just for kicks to look up this supposed "HIV transmission through deep kissing" incident.

Good grief.  Not even the article you are referencing makes any certain claim that transmission really occured that way. 


http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/10/nfm.aids.kiss/index.html?eref=sitesearch


EDITIED TO ADD:   Yes, I didn't even get all the way down to that ''call the police'' comment.  That's being utterly ridiculous, dude.


AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 07:29:51 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/10/nfm.aids.kiss/

does my situation belong to bleeding gums?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 07:33:07 PM »
I guess you don't read the replies. That story was done 10 years ago. You don't get HIV from Kissing, deep or other wise. Saliva has inhibiting factors. You were not at risk.

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 07:50:30 PM »
thank you, guys!

so what about PCR DNA? if I go to a doc, what should he order me to do? I remember you said it should be PCR RNA in another post?

I will consult a doctor some time next week. I really want to get over this, and back to my life as soon as possible. I know it's not necessary to perform the expensive test, but I really need STH to get me out of this.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 07:54:31 PM »
PCR DNA is not an approved diagnostic test for HIV. The appropriate test is PCR RNA. But it really wouldn't matter with you because you didn't have a risk.

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 08:01:22 PM »
I'm actually not that worried comparing to some other guys in this forum, but thank you any way!

just again want to confirm that my bleeding teeth/gums when brushing is NO risk when kissing, that 10 year old news made me really worried.

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 08:25:55 PM »
and also, does PCR RNA ever yield a false-negative result if I test too early?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2007, 08:46:13 PM »
GU, you need to take some good deep breaths and settle down.

There is absolutely no need for testing in relation to this incident as far as HIV is concerned.

I can only think that you are not very experienced sexually and that getting started has unnecessarily raised all kinds of alarm bells for you about HIV. If you haven't already done so you should read the lesson on this site about Transmission and also the one about testing. There's a link to them in the Welcome thread which opens this section.

There have been no documented cases of HIV transmission from either kissing or from getting a blowjob. You aren't going to make history by becoming the first.

No HIV testing is necessary in relation to this incident and certainly not the costly PCR. Which by the way is not meant for diagnostic use and because of it's high level of sensitivity can yield a false negative. You really don't need to do it at all, but in any case it should not be done before 28 days although it is so sensitive it can often yield a reliable result within 48-72 hours after an exposure. But you haven't had a REAL risk. Are you listening?

You are totally out of line going after the woman in question to get tested and pestering her. She would be well within her rights to report you for harassment.

This is not an HIV situation so stop getting your shorts in a twist over it. Also, it doesn't matter if you are with a sex worker or a "civilian." The essential issue as far as HIV is concerned is that you always use a condom for intercourse, be it vaginal or anal. Condoms provide very effective protection no matter whom you are with.   

And don't be so quick to poo poo the no risk. Anything other than masturbating yourself "theoretically" involves risk. But in the real world of HIV we know from well documented history and experience that neither kissing nor getting blowjobs results in transmission of HIV.

Period.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 08:49:22 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 12:00:56 AM »
so kissing even with some blood (although I don't remember whether we had any) has no risk?

Offline Ann

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 07:11:51 AM »
guoyp,

Kissing, no matter what sort of spin you can think of to put on it, is not a risk for hiv infection. Where blood is concerned, as long as you're not in the habit of punching people in the mouth before you kiss them, you don't have anything to worry about. Even if you did punch them first, it's highly unlikely you'd become infected. Seriously.

Not one person has ever become hiv positive because of a kiss and you will NOT be the first. Same goes for getting a blowjob. It just does NOT happen.

It's time you put this behind you and got on with your life. Make sure you use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active (having intercourse) should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for intercourse and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 11:22:26 PM »
so can somebody tell me theoretically why neither getting a blow job nor kissing have no risk? all because of saliva?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 11:35:30 PM »
All because of saliva. Saliva, inhibits the transmission of HIV.

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2007, 12:08:21 AM »
thx RapidRod, but I found this from CDC

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00048364.htm

the same case I mentioned before with a detailed analysis

It does say "possibly", but it also sounds like it must be from the man's bleeding gums. The man kissed his partner after brushing his teeth. And I brushed my teeth after the kissing and I mentioned that I do have bleeding gums when brushing, is this a possible exposure to the virus or it's still safe? (again her HIV status and mouth health condition are unknown).

I did read that saliva inhibits HIV-1 infectivity, and it does ease my mind a little.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2007, 12:51:34 AM »
That possibly was in 1996. That was ten years ago, which was never proven, because they said they had protected sex but had a condom failure. If it were true we would have over half our population HIV positive.

Offline guoyp

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  • Posts: 10
Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2007, 12:39:37 AM »
I know I don't even need a test, but just out of curiosity, I know for ELISA 6 weeks can rule out the possibility of infection, what's the window period for Oraquick? still 6 weeks? The welcome thread does not mention it for Oraquick. thanks again!

Offline guoyp

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2007, 12:50:59 AM »
oh, and one more thing, I don't mean to offend anybody, but do you HIV+ guys know some one who seroconverted after 6 weeks by ELISA test? how about 4 weeks?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2007, 03:47:32 AM »
Yes, I know several. The testing guideline for conclusive results is 13 weeks. NOT 4 weeks or 6 weeks.

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: should I worry? or am over sensitive?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2007, 07:42:31 AM »
guoyp,

With the more sensitive tests used today, it is rare for it to take longer than six weeks to detect antibodies where there has in fact been an infection take place. The three month window still exists to catch someone who may take slightly longer, or to cover where the older tests are still in use. Hiv is nothing to guess about so the confirmatory three month test is necessary.

However, explaining all this to you is pointless. You did NOT have a risk by ANY stretch of the imagination. You do not need to test over this specific incident.

Ann
 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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