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Author Topic: Is health care a right?  (Read 101390 times)

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Offline ACinKC

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  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #300 on: February 05, 2007, 01:42:50 PM »
300 What do I win?

Also, Grinch, I called Bush a douchebag not you.  And he has ruined quite a bit.  But besides all THAT.  You do have some valid points and many of those are the ones people take issue with.  I personally think you can do a hybrid model.  And for a somewhat thriving example of that just look at retirement.  Social Security (while it does have its flaws and needs some work) is a Government funded retirement program.  It has worked for nearly a century giving those that need it extra help.  (I also say that if you make x amount of dollars in a lifetime or you have a high networth you should be excluded from payments of SS and be able to write off what ever you put in starting when you turn 65!)  Along with SS you have a THRIVING independent financial planning industry.  Ranging in the BILLIONS of dollars, hell TRILLIONS of dollars.  Not everyone relies on the government for their retirement but those that DO need it are guaranteed to have it (for the time being).  I predict the same thing will happen with health care.  As it should.  The sheer WEALTH of this country will enable us to have a dual support system and it will be driven by those with money.  It cant go away as you point out for reasons of ingenuity and leaping forward and what not and with the wealthy alive and kicking...it WONT go away when they add the government side.

Damn...i didnt think I had an opinion!  SO take that shit to the bank!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 01:52:23 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #301 on: February 05, 2007, 01:47:50 PM »
At the next health science fair, you get a free blood pressure check.  ;)

Offline Dachshund

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  • Posts: 5,959
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #302 on: February 05, 2007, 02:29:56 PM »
I will try one more time and leave it at that. I offered four, count em, four proposals for universal health care pending before Congress. I supplied the bill numbers if anyone was so inclined to read the proposals... Grinch,you wanted solutions I offered four, you never bothered to read them. Two-sided to you is always obtuse at best.

As for me, I volunteer with the Tennessee Health Care Campaign which is trying to obtain a guaranteed affordable plan for Tennesseans lacking health care. We believe health insurance companies should be required to offer a standard comprehensive health plan so that everyone knows what they are getting and that their health care needs will be met. Every Tennessean would have guaranteed access to a choice of standard, affordable plans, either buying it from private insurer, or from a public plan provided by an independent non-profit agency. Employers and insurers could choose to offer more coverage beyond the standard package of benefits. Everyone would have a choice of plans, private and public, that would be affordable to them based on a sliding scale. You are welcome to join me at our next regional training meeting in March, if you would like to learn more. We understand that the "solutions" you speak of will be accomplished only with a honest partnership between the private sector and government. If trying to find health care solutions for my brethren in the Volunteer State makes me a commie lovin' pinko fag...then so be it.

Offline ACinKC

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  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #303 on: February 05, 2007, 02:36:17 PM »
HERE! HERE! Dasch!!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #304 on: February 05, 2007, 02:52:46 PM »
Dash, what I read of them so far, I didn't like. What is proposed in H.B. 676 is for public hospitals. Hospitals that are already are subsidised by the government. Private hospital for profit could not benefit. You will get medications, what they see as necessary. You can petition them for meds not on a list, but I can tell you right now they will deny you. Been there done that.

Offline libvet

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  • Posts: 327
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #305 on: February 05, 2007, 05:04:17 PM »
That's something that we'll never have to worry about, because it is not going to happen. Terrorists, is something that we have to deal with and we've already have seen it happen.

Interesting sense of proportion.

On 9/11/2001, around 3000 people died in the worst terrorist attack on US soil in our history.  In 1993, 18 people died in a terrorist attack.

So, between 1993 and 2003 (just to round it to ten years), around 3018 people died an unnecessary death on US soil due to foreign terrorists.

Every year in this country approximately 18,000 die an unnecessary death due to lack of health care coverage.

That's around SIX 9/11's every single year.  That's SIXTY 9/11's  between 1993 and 2003. 

No one is against protecting our country.  Hell, all those awful socialist european countries manage to provide health care to everyone and have more threat of terrorism than we do.

How is it that they can manage that and we can't?

And what the hell does Iraq have to do with fighting terrorism?  None of the terrorists that hit us on 9/11 were Iraqis.  Iraq had no involvement in 9/11.

And don't even bother with the whole "flypaper" theory of our invasion.   The morality of putting innocent Iraqi civilians in harm's way from terrorists to avoid putting our own asses on the line is a non-starter and unworthy of anyone with a sense of morality and decency.  The flypaper theory is the equivalent of being shot at and picking up a small child to use as a shield against the bullets and it doesn't wash with me.

Quit giving excuses why we CAN'T fix our health care problems in the US and instead of red herrings and non-sequiturs.


Offline Longislander

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #306 on: February 05, 2007, 05:17:23 PM »
Umm, AcinKC., I hope with your rich person situation of not paying into SS and writing off what you do have to pay, you agree they shouldn't collect any SS when they're eligible either, right? ;)

Edited- maybe that is what you meant by the first part of this;??

Quote
high networth you should be excluded from payments of SS and be able to write off what ever you put in starting when you turn 65!) 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 05:19:15 PM by Longislander »
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline squareman

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  • Posts: 15
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #307 on: February 05, 2007, 05:20:57 PM »
Mmm. I would like to make another remark.

I have never understood why people like Grinch throw universal health care (insurance) together with communism. Uhm. Europe is not communist and at least the part where I live has never been. There is competition virtually in every part of our society. The only difference between the US and many EU countries is social security. It includes generally unemployment benefits, healthcare and pensions. And I am not saying that the sytem could not be better. Especially with the aging population most of our gouvernments are mainly working out the pension stuff (how to pay for it in the future). Universal Healthcare is never questioned.

Please! Please! Come over and visit our capitalist industries, shopping centers, restaurants and hospitals (yes the system is completely free market except for the health insurance). And see that we are not living in the backward slow-growth defaitist continent some american press wants to make you believe. And if we can pay for it being numbers 2,3 and onward on the ranking list of the worlds richest nations, having no money is not a valid excuse for the number 1 on that ranking list.

Offline ACinKC

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  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #308 on: February 05, 2007, 05:41:15 PM »
Umm, AcinKC., I hope with your rich person situation of not paying into SS and writing off what you do have to pay, you agree they shouldn't collect any SS when they're eligible either, right? ;)

Edited- maybe that is what you meant by the first part of this;??
 

Yeah thats TOTALLY what I was getting at.  They SHOULD pay in.  But if their networth is X they shouldnt be able to recieve benefits but should start taking deductions based on past years averages or payments.  And should get those each and every year.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Longislander

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,486
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #309 on: February 05, 2007, 05:44:49 PM »
sounds like a plan. But also up the amount where the annual SS withholding stops. Last I remember it was around 90k, and way too many people earn that much. No reason to stop paying in at that point!!
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #310 on: February 05, 2007, 06:49:57 PM »
libvet, it maybe a no starter for you, but it concerns me a lot more than Universal Health Care does at the moment.

Offline AustinWesley

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    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #311 on: February 05, 2007, 07:00:18 PM »
Right now on CNN they just announced John Edwards is revealing his agenda for a Universal Health Care Plan!    If any of you think this isn't gona be the number one campaign issue next to terrorism maybe we should all watch and see what happens.

I'll be watching to hear what his proposal is as well as all of the candidates.   

I think you'd be hard pressed to find many who now still feel the war in Iraq was a good idea or that it had anything to do with 9/11.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't 14 of the 19 hijackers from Saudi Arabia?

That aside, I think if one good thing has come from this war is that more people are becoming involved and making their voices heard by voting.

Unless we have another major terrorist attack prior to 2008, healthcare is going to be a top issue.

So, just wanted to let ya'll know one candidate is already trying to propose something and we'll see if any of ya'll watch it and weigh in!

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline jack

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  • Posts: 1,578
  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #312 on: February 05, 2007, 07:11:38 PM »
Hey, lets take all the profits from the Oil Industry and use them to pay for health care and our bankrupt social security ponzi scheme. 
The only hope in saving SS is getting more and more people to plan for their own retirement. But unfortunately many people think that SS is gonna  pay for everything when in reality you can barely get by on what they pay out. You can also make a better return in savings bonds or government bonds than you can   with your money in Soc Sec. Its wasnt planned to be the ponzi scheme it has turned into, originally it was just a temporary safety net, but our pols have used it to buy votes and it is now a disaster. The only way out is to cut out the people who pay for it, the people who make a lot. hahahahaha . fucked again.
Yeah,we might have some universal health program but the more involved the government is the more fucked up it will get. Its what they do. They never downsize, they never cut costs, so it will become more and more expensive every year, and what we get in return will be of a lower quality than we get today. You will have the smartest and best people moving to other industries where they can make better money. Your doctor could well become the equivalent of some your public school teachers( about 90% of my teachers were worthless). We will also see more and more capital move from the pharma and medical industry to other sectors. Its what socialism does. It doesnt allow for the efficient distribution of capital, human or monetary.

I am not saying todays system isnt a freaking nightmare, I am just saying it could get a lot worse and will if government takes it over.

Offline Dachshund

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  • Posts: 5,959
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #313 on: February 05, 2007, 07:28:39 PM »
I say we suspend all coverage. That includes medicare, medicaid, Ryan White and ADAP. Hell, old people are useless when it comes to fighting terrorists any way. We are wasting tax payers money extending the life of people who contracted a disease through risky behavior. In fact, we should ship every person with HIV to the middle east and let those bastards deal with it. We should suspend every social service in the U.S.of A. and if you die you die...if you suffer you suffer. Heck, you're just wasting space and using resources that could be put to better use. Just remember each death would in the end be a benefit to Americans over all. In a way it is your patriotic duty to suffer and die. God Bless America. 

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #314 on: February 05, 2007, 07:40:09 PM »
You're so funny Dash.

Offline whizzer

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #315 on: February 05, 2007, 07:43:46 PM »
For the record, Rapid.  You seem to be extremely down on any kind of universal health care.

How is your own health care provided?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #316 on: February 05, 2007, 08:05:50 PM »
Whizzer, are you getting a bill for my health care cost? I didn't think so.

Offline AustinWesley

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    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #317 on: February 05, 2007, 08:09:09 PM »
Well, I think it's obvious that all of the naysayers have one thing in common.   They have medical care covered in one manner or another.   

I said it before and I'll say it again.   Those who are lucky enough to not have to be concerned about their situation are of course afraid to rock the boat for fear of falling out.
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline libvet

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  • Posts: 327
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #318 on: February 05, 2007, 09:13:38 PM »
libvet, it maybe a no starter for you, but it concerns me a lot more than Universal Health Care does at the moment.


Why?  What did the Iraqi people ever do to or for you that you would put their welfare ahead of your fellow citizens?

I'm going to be blunt, pretty much like the majority of Americans:  Iraq was huge mistake.  It was a mistake I protested against before it even began.   I certainly wasn't hiding under my bed afraid of the big bad Iraqi army massed at our borders.  Afghanistan was another story altogether and we had good reason for that, but we didn't finish the job there and the idiot son decided to settle old scores that weren't worth settling.

So let's lay our cards on the table.  If Bush came out tomorrow and said all public assistance for health care must end to win in Iraq, are you willing to die for this blunder in the Iraq?

And I am also going to chime in that I find it very strange that you are on public assistance and saying the 47 million Americans who don't have health care don't deserve what you have. 

How do you reconcile that? 

Whizzer, are you getting a bill for my health care cost? I didn't think so.

If you are on public assistance, maybe he is.  Ryan White, Medicare, Medicaid, ADAP.....Every single day that I go to work I help fund those thing with MY money and the money of every American currently employed.

Do you really believe our current system is working when 18000 people are dying every single year because they have no insurance?   When even more are suffering because they have no access to health care?

Honestly, if you had to read the letters from people who are choosing between treating their pain, treating their diabetes, treating their heart disease, treating their cancer and having to pick and choose which condition they can afford to pay to take care of and which one they just have to let deteriorate and pray they don't wind up even worse......I really don't think you could sit here and tell me that our system is working.  And I am not talking AIDS medications (and YES, I've had to send those prescriptions back unfilled for inability to pay as well).....I am talking about medications that might be a hundred dollars a month at most.

And I don't mean to sound callous, but why should the taxpayers help you, but not them?  For each of your HIV medications, 20 people that need medications that are a heck of lot cheaper than your medications could be funded and they are risking death just like you would without your medications.

I have a vision of America where we don't let people starve to death.  Where we don't let people die for lack of health care.  Where we don't force people to choose between food and medicine.

We are a great country and I am proud to have served my country, but we can be so much better than we are and the only people that are stopping it are people who are either too greedy or too lacking in empathy or just too apathetic to do something about the very real troubles that face us.

Every single first world industrialized country has determined that health care is something that NONE of it's citizens should have to do without.

Why can't America do the same?



Offline libvet

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #319 on: February 05, 2007, 09:21:05 PM »

I said it before and I'll say it again.   Those who are lucky enough to not have to be concerned about their situation are of course afraid to rock the boat for fear of falling out.


I find it more interesting that the same mindset that calls itself "conservative" also claims to be the people most in tune with the "values of Christianity" that they claim are so much of part of what we are founded upon but they miss this little tidbit from the person the Christians claim to worship:

Jesus said to his disciples:
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory,
and all the angels with him,
he will sit upon his glorious throne,
and all the nations will be assembled before him.

And he will separate them one from another,
as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Then the king will say to those on his right,
‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father.
Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food,
I was thirsty and you gave me drink,
a stranger and you welcomed me,
naked and you clothed me,
ill and you cared for me,
in prison and you visited me.’

Then the righteous will answer him and say,
‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you,
or thirsty and give you drink?
When did we see you a stranger and welcome you,
or naked and clothe you?
When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’

And the king will say to them in reply,
‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did
for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

Then he will say to those on his left,
‘Depart from me, you accursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.

For I was hungry and you gave me no food,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
a stranger and you gave me no welcome,
naked and you gave me no clothing,
ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
Then they will answer and say,
‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty
or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison,
and not minister to your needs?’
He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you,
what you did not do for one of these least ones,
you did not do for me.’


For myself,  I agree with those who say a nation will be judged not on it's riches or buildings or it's military might, but on how it treats the most vulnerable among us.

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #320 on: February 05, 2007, 09:32:45 PM »
libvet, you fall in the same category as whizzer a joke. For your information I paid into the federal government for 34 years in taxes. It's not a gift by no means. I don't get ADAP.  Tell me when you can live comfortably on 603 dollars a month. That isn't a sixth of what I was making a month.  If I could work I would. 603 dollars isn't squat. My nephew getting killed in Iraq, so you can sit behind a computer and bad mouth. That is one of my reason for disliking the Iraqi's. I would have pulled out a long time ago and dropped a bomb on them and then there would be no more discussion. As for Universal Health Care, you can talk all you want it's not going to happen no matter what politics are in office. So if you want the special care that you get, keep working.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 12:19:42 AM by RapidRod »

Offline AustinWesley

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  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #321 on: February 05, 2007, 10:04:08 PM »
Here is an opportunity for everyone to weigh in on the John Edwards site proposing universal healthcare.   I am not endorsing him and I read a lot of rhetoric here that seems vague, but since no one paid any attention before I thought I'd share his website promoting universal healthcare for those who seem to lack any imagination.   And for the other naysayers who I personally feel have no moral or ethical compas!

So, if it's so outlandish why is one of the frontrunners for the Democratic side already pushing it?
 

Affordable Health Care for All Americans Is Achievable

http://blog.johnedwards.com/story/2007/2/5/125735/3083
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline AustinWesley

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  • Posts: 815
    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #322 on: February 05, 2007, 10:13:56 PM »
Here is the link to sign the petition if you feel universal health care is a priority for America from the John Edwards campaign.

I'll agree with Rod, that some of us can talk till we are blue in the face, but here is your chance to help put this issue on the agenda:

http://johnedwards.com/

I signed up for this and will likely post it on my own website and push it.   You can send the information easily to all of your friends and family as well.   I'm not advocating John Edwards or his campaign, but I am supporting this petition to make sure healthcare is on the forefront for the 2008 campaign.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 10:15:47 PM by AustinWesley »
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline libvet

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #323 on: February 05, 2007, 10:50:22 PM »
libvet, you fall in the same category as whizzer a joke. For your information I paid into the federal government for 34 years in taxes. It's not a gift by no means. I don't get ADAP.  Tell me when you can live comfortably on 603 dollars a month. That isn't a sixth of what I was making a month.  If I could work I would. 603 dollars isn't squat. My nephew getting killed in Iraq, so you can sit behind a computer and bad mouth. It one of my reason for disliking the Iraqi's. I would have pulled out a long time ago and dropped a bomb on them and then there would be no more discussion. As for Universal Health Care, you can talk all you want it's not going to happen no matter politics are in office. So if you want the special care that you get, keep working.

Don't presume to lecture me on hard work or service to our country.  I've done both.

I served my country over 20 years ago and while that certainly gives me no more right to bad mouth my government's policies, it certainly gives me the ammo to those who try to claim others are serving for MY freedom.  I served for my own freedom and love of county, thank you very much.  And I am sorry about your nephew, but the Iraqi people didn't come here looking for a fight, we went there.  If anyone is to blame for the death of our countrymen in that country, it's that warmongering silver-spooned jerk that decided that he was going to establish his legacy by trying to enforce democracy on a people without regard to their own wants or desires as nation or their ethnic background and culture.  Simply put, don't blame the Iraqi people....they didn't send our countrymen over there and they certainly didn't ask for America to come over there and kill tens of thousands of people and turn their country into a "bastion of freedom" that is so free that women and children can't go to the market or school without fear of having a car bomb kill them.   

And I will NEVER support, nor comprehend the "nuke em" mindset.   The notion of murdering (and it is murder) hundreds of thousands of people because they didn't greet us as liberators is an appalling concept and anathema to any sense of decency.

You think I get special care?  I pay 150 dollars a month for health insurance through my company.  I pay another 160 dollars a month in co-pays for medications.  I pay 170 dollars every three months for my office visit and blood work.  All told, I am spending 376 dollars give or take a dollar a month on health care alone.  That's approximately 1/4 of my income per month.   When all is said and done, I work 40 hours a week and still have maybe 400 dollars more a month to live off of than you do.  And that's after the a year and a half of working full time on the midnight shift at a convenience store while putting myself through school AGAIN after our oh-so-benevolent American corporations decided that 16 dollars an hour after 6 and 1/2 years of work was too much to pay when they could pay someone in India 3 dollars an hour to do.  So in addition, I get to pay two sets of student loans off (one for the previous career that was outsourced to India and one for the current job in the health care industry).

Then, just to put the icing on the cake, I get to pay for the health care of people with so little regard for the needs and health of their fellow citizens that they will gladly take my tax dollars to help them make ends meet and keep themselves healthy while begrudging and belittling anyone who does the same and praying I don't get sick or find myself without a job so that I won't have to put myself on a waiting list to get a little help so I don't die from lack of health care.   

And you wonder that I think we might be able to do better for ourselves as a country?

Maybe it has something to do with my upbringing.  I was raised in poverty.  The first time I got a brand new set of clothes that had no previous owner it was presented to me on my 18th birthday when I was given a free ride to boot camp and a bag full of uniforms and shaved head.   I remember way too many dinners that consisted of collard greens and corn bread that I only had because I came home from school and worked in my grandmother's garden to help produce enough food to get us through the winter.

I've never been rich, except maybe in spirit and empathy for my fellow man.    And I don't begrudge for one second if my tax dollars help put food on the tables of children, or medicine in the mouths of people that would spit in my face if I asked the same of them.    I believe in community and the common good.    And I hope that what I do for a living helps serves that...whether it's by providing medications to the sick or my tax dollars going to help those who need it.

And believe you me, I work with people who work as hard as I do and they are facing the prospect of having to do without health care coverage just to pay the rent.

You won't budge me from the position that health care has become such a burden to our corporations and populace and so necessary to a great and productive country that is incumbent on us to do away with those who are profiting from our health care dollar while providing no health care in return and serve only to enrich shareholders and executives to provide ideologues the false illusion that America has so much choice and so much better health care than the rest of our first world counterparts.   

I support the government managing our health care and covering all it's citizens with our tax dollars in a public/private partnership instead of our health care as a nation being dependent on what so-called free-enterprises decide we little people deserve while they line their own pockets and send our jobs overseas to get another couple of dollars per share.   

And honestly, more and more people are coming around to my way of thinking.....from politicians, to corporations tired of being fleeced by rising premiums they are required to pay, to people who work day in and day out in small businesses that can't provide health care while paying taxes that go toward other people's health care, to people just tired of being locked into a job they hate because they can't afford to give up the dubious benefit that being employed at a job that is sucking the life out of them gives them by providing the opportunity to partake in group health coverage that in the end is not really any better than what every country with universal health care already gets as a matter of citizenship.

But hey, it's still a free country.  You are free to stand beside and support a system that so many of us are coming to realize is failing.    From where I stand, that kind of "protect the status quo at all cost thinking" is the same kind of thinking that says sodomy will always be illegal and blacks and whites should be prohibited from marrying one another.   

If that is your choice, fight for it.....just don't expect me to stand by your side defending that status quo.   I am simply not psychologically equipped to watch so many people struggle with something that is so very basic a need in life.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #324 on: February 05, 2007, 11:13:38 PM »
You have the right to your opinion and I have mine. When I get to the point that I'm using your tax dollars, I'll be sure to let you know. ;)

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #325 on: February 05, 2007, 11:25:41 PM »
You have the right to your opinion and I have mine. When I get to the point that I'm using your tax dollars, I'll be sure to let you know. ;)

You know you just used your own nephew's death to I guess somehow support your stance on why people shouldn't have healthcare, unless of course that someone is you.

This has gotten me to wondering if according to your own values that perhaps it was a blessing your nephew was a casualty and fortunately not just another returned quadrapalegic who'll be left to some shabby home for our heros or sucking out of the system helping you?

 
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #326 on: February 05, 2007, 11:45:04 PM »
You know you just used your own nephew's death to I guess somehow support your stance on why people shouldn't have healthcare, unless of course that someone is you.

This has gotten me to wondering if according to your own values that perhaps it was a blessing your nephew was a casualty and fortunately not just another returned quadrapalegic who'll be left to some shabby home for our heros or sucking out of the system helping you?


Austin, if it weren't for mental illness I wouldn't forgive you for that sick statement. But this disease does inhibit one thinking.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #327 on: February 05, 2007, 11:52:33 PM »


Austin, if it weren't for mental illness I wouldn't forgive you for that sick statement. But this disease does inhibit one thinking.

Rod, I'm sorry you have mental health issues.   I wasn't aware.   

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #328 on: February 06, 2007, 12:02:07 AM »
 :D

Offline libvet

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #329 on: February 06, 2007, 12:18:58 AM »
This is very entertaining, but let's regroup.

I really want to hear from Rod why he thinks universal health care for all Americans is either:

A) Totally unworkable, despite the fact that every other first world country manages it.

B) A totally bad idea.

It's all good and well to say "Bad! Bad universal health! No likey!"

It takes a bit more effort to defend your position with reason.

I'm certainly open to hearing alternative viewpoints. However, if one can't do more than repeat tired cliches, it makes discussion less than satisfactory.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #330 on: February 06, 2007, 12:39:50 AM »
 libvet, I'm not going to waste anymore time on this. It's not going to happen in the US in your's or my life time. I do believe they will come out with more aid packages for health care for each state, but not a Universal Health Care across the board.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #331 on: February 06, 2007, 02:33:54 AM »
This is very entertaining, but let's regroup.

I really want to hear from Rod why he thinks universal health care for all Americans is either:

A) Totally unworkable, despite the fact that every other first world country manages it.

B) A totally bad idea.

It's all good and well to say "Bad! Bad universal health! No likey!"

It takes a bit more effort to defend your position with reason.

I'm certainly open to hearing alternative viewpoints. However, if one can't do more than repeat tired cliches, it makes discussion less than satisfactory.

Hey Libvet,

I am more interested in hearing what you think of John Edwards proposing Universal Health Care so early on in the presidential campaign and what you think of ideas proposed here:

Affordable Health Care for All Americans Is Achievable

http://blog.johnedwards.com/story/2007/2/5/125735/3083
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #332 on: February 06, 2007, 02:36:55 AM »
Here is the link to the 7 page preliminary preposal if anyone would care to read it:

http://johnedwards.com/about/issues/health-care-overview.pdf
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Cliff

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #333 on: February 06, 2007, 05:04:49 AM »
John's plan seems okay.  It's not anything radical in terms of what has been proposed in the past.  I suppose the big issue is how will you pay for it.  He says that there would be an elimination of the Bush tax cuts on those making $200k or more and new taxes on businesses.  If you cover 47 million people (assuming undocumented workers would be covered) and assuming a cost of $300 a month per person, that's roughly $169 billion a year.  A lot of money, but not too far out of reach considering how much we are spending on the war on terrorism and the war on drugs.


Offline jack

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #334 on: February 06, 2007, 06:20:59 AM »
why are the Dems pushing  Health Care? You have to be kidding. Look at everything they push,its all redistribution of wealth and increase in govt size, and to get votes. Why are most pols against Iraq now,even though many of them voted for it?  They  are gutless and go with the crowd rather than lead.
There is a chance to get some type  of national insurance coverage and that is by getting US corps behind it. Why are employers responsible for health insurance? go figure. Thomas Freidmans plan makes a lot of sense and is a better plan than the dems tired old attacks on rich and anyone who makes over 75 grand a year.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #335 on: February 06, 2007, 08:50:01 AM »
One thing is clear. In the USA is where you can find the best medicine available. That is why people from other countries go to Houston, for example, to recieve treatment for cancer.
It is also the country that invests more in research in every field. This proves private investment can obtain excellent results. Unfortunatelly this rarely happens in other countries. Europe is far behind USA in research and Spain even more, where our scientists often have to go to the USA to obatin the support and money for their research.
But for countries in which private investment is very poor (Spain) a Public Health System in needed because no private company is willing to do so. In fact, when you read about the very little progress made in Spain in the HIV field (see the therapeutic vaccine with dendritic cells) it is always sponsored by public money in public hospitals.
You are lucky to have one of the very best private health systems in the world. It would be perfect if the 100% of the population had access to it. I don´t think it is necessary to create a paralel public health system. Making the system you already have accesible to everybody would be better.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline Grinch

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #336 on: February 06, 2007, 08:53:40 AM »
    Those that are on the attack, by which I mean those that continue to belittle anyone that disagrees with them, have changed the argument significantly.

The original posts talked not about universal health care, but of a "Single payer" system. A single payer can only mean one thing. Paid for by the government.  Simple logic would lead one to believe if the government is the single payer they will also be the sole provider. Or that they will tightly control what treatment may be given and to whom.

  That is what people are arguing about.  That is what people like myself are deathly afraid of.  Reading the horror stories of the folks on this very forum that are on waiting lists should be enough to make anyone go running and screaming from the thought of a wholly government funded system.

   Now those that argued loud and strong for this single payer system have changed it to "Universal Health Care"  A universal plan simply means everyone has some form of health care.  It's a given that we all agree on that. Please debate your side, but lets not hide our true feelings. Are you arguing Universal care or federally funded and controlled "single payer" health care.

   There's quite a difference.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #337 on: February 06, 2007, 09:48:19 AM »
The reason you keep reading of the "horror stories" of people on waiting lists is the primary reason we need universal care.

If you followed this forum throughout the entire debate you will see differing opinions concerning how universal care could be implemented. Once again for your edification I will try and explain my position. To answer the question first asked in this topic, yes, I believe health care is a right.

In order to come to my own personal choice I have done some research and implore others in the debate to do the same. I offered up the House and Senate bill numbers of bills now before Congress and a link to MassCare. I took the time to read each proposal and my personal favorite is the bill offered up by Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon http://wyden.senate.gov/. I am not going to spoon feed forum members and people can throw around all the buzz words and terms they like, but I find it frustrating and intellectually dishonest to say the least. How can I debate you in the topic if you will not give me the common courtesy of at leasting reading Wyden's proposal.

So I won't waste my time with this topic anymore but will continue working on the Tennessee Health Care Campaign. Why?...because the only thing I am deathly afraid of is losing ADAP and naysayers who offer no solutions of their own.

Offline jack

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #338 on: February 06, 2007, 10:15:10 AM »
played golf this weekend with a guy who is in residency to become a Neuro Surgeon. He is 35. He is making minimum wage. Why is he doing it? In a couple of years if he plays his cards right he could make 2 to 3 million a year,minus 40% yearly overhead. If any new system limits the income a person can make,no one is gonna get into it. It is too difficult and takes so long before you are rewarded.

Offline libvet

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #339 on: February 06, 2007, 10:32:26 AM »
why are the Dems pushing  Health Care? You have to be kidding. Look at everything they push,its all redistribution of wealth and increase in govt size, and to get votes. Why are most pols against Iraq now,even though many of them voted for it?  They  are gutless and go with the crowd rather than lead.
There is a chance to get some type  of national insurance coverage and that is by getting US corps behind it. Why are employers responsible for health insurance? go figure. Thomas Freidmans plan makes a lot of sense and is a better plan than the dems tired old attacks on rich and anyone who makes over 75 grand a year.

What is it about right wingers that every time someone starts discussing how to deal with the very real problems facing a substantial portion of the American populace the only thing the right wingers can add to the discussion is tired cliches about how bad the government is (which is essentially saying we our people are bad...since our government is of the people, by the people, for the people) or redistribution of wealth.

Do you really believe that we need a society where the offspring of those who did acquire wealth are allowed to sit back for generations on end in idle luxury living off the fruits of labors they themselves did not earn?  That's an aristocracy, not the beloved meritocracy that right wingers claim to love so much.

That kind of idiocy is why instead of doing like FDR did and raising taxes on the wealthiest to help fund WW2, Chimpy McCokespoon is offering tax cuts to wealthiest while driving the country into massive debt to the Chinese communists to the point that now he wants to take even more from the have nots to fund his war while leaving his blue-blooded brethren unscathed.

And don't give me any garbage about the so-called benevolence of rich and trickle down economics. 

You want to know about trickle down economics?  90 percent of the people I work with are currently facing a pay cut while the our Fortune 500 company is making record profits and our CEO is getting an extra 10 million in pay.   That's the reality of trickle down economics.  It's a REAL redistribution of wealth, from redistributing wealth from workers making 9 to 15 dollars an hour to people already wealthier than you and I will EVER be.

And quit parroting your Rush Limbaugh numbers at me.  Rush Limbaugh is multi-million who made his fortune convincing blue-collared workers that they were the reason for all the problems in America.  He isn't looking out for you.  He's looking out for his own checkbook and you are being manipulated.   It's that same BS that right-wingers like to say everyone on the left thinks anyone making more than 75k a year is rich, but you can't back it up.

The situation has gotten to the point where everything is skewed on behalf of the wealthiest in our country.   40 years ago, the average CEO made 20-30 times the salary of his average worker in his company.   Now that figure is 400-600 times.    That's how "trickle down" REALLY works in practice.   Trickle down sounds good on paper, but so does Marxism.....but in practice, NEITHER work.

In Japan, that model of efficiency and free enterprise that right wingers like to point to, the average CEO is making 17 times the average wage of the worker.  And it works!  Imagine that.

I will truly never understand why an average joe would place his sympathies more with the top 1% than the bottom 50% that is struggling to get by.   Do you honestly believe in the 50's and 60's the wealthy weren't living the life of Riley, before the era of bloated overcompensation for top tier in the company while worker wages remain stagnant?  The only thing I can figure is that the average right winger, working a 9-5 job thinks someday if he works hard enough, he's going to find himself one of those top 1%.  But I have the feeling you are going to come around to a reality that it really isn't going to happen when you find yourself at 70 years old and have had your life savings wiped out by quadruple bypass or half your annuity is going to pay for medications. 

That's the reality we face in America now.

Which brings me to the point.  I have absolutely no problem taxing the wealthiest Americans at a higher rate.   We've tried both ways in our society.  When the wealthiest were taxed at a higher rate, the standard of living of all Americans went up, our infrastructure was better, our schools and public services were better.   Before that, we had the so-called gilded age which is a model for where we are going now.  The very wealthy put the majority of their money into luxuries and their children lived in idle wealth while looking down on the abject poverty of the majority of Americans.

Is that the model you see for America?

I don't.  I certainly have no intention of taxing the wealthy into the poor house.   Despite all the protests from the right, that hasn't ever happened and isn't going to happen now.

But quit looking out for the richest of Americans at the expense of the average and most vulnerable workers of America, because the wealthy you are so concerned with won't give you a second thought.  The vast majority of them are much more concerned with how many more zeros they can add to their own check book.....not how the workers in their own companies being given less and less a share of the fruits of their labors.

And as far as the government managing health care.   They already do it better than insurance companies, for all the vaunted cries of the right about the free market.  While insurance companies are sucking up 15 to 30 percent of your health care dollar for "administrative costs", Medicare manages to do the same thing for 2 percent of the health care dollar it gets.

So I say, let's get the insurance companies out of our wallets stealing our health care dollars and let that money go into public/private partnership where the government manages our health care dollars to all Americans while reimbursing the doctors and hospitals and labs and pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies for the services they provide.


Offline Dachshund

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #340 on: February 06, 2007, 10:38:04 AM »
played golf this weekend with a guy who is in residency to become a Neuro Surgeon. He is 35. He is making minimum wage. Why is he doing it? In a couple of years if he plays his cards right he could make 2 to 3 million a year,minus 40% yearly overhead. If any new system limits the income a person can make,no one is gonna get into it. It is too difficult and takes so long before you are rewarded.

You are soooo right Jake....what was I thinking? That is why I would support a plan of eliminating all social services so your golfing buddy can make...heck, why three...why not ten...why not fifty mill a year?

edited, because it is just not worth it
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 10:58:29 AM by Dachshund »

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #341 on: February 06, 2007, 10:38:34 AM »
I am recieving my HIV treatment from the National Health System. I was put on meds when I wanted with no waiting lists. The Dr. gave me my prescription immediately and 10 minutes later I was driving home with my meds.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #342 on: February 06, 2007, 10:55:17 AM »
All it takes is the largest political party contributors and lobbyists to threaten and the Universal Health Care idea goes by the waste side. Clinton tried, where did it go. Yep, file thirteen. Why, because that is where they get their money. How many here gives thousands of dollars to a political campain? You will never be able to infringe on big business.The politicians aren't going to screw with the contributors that gave them money to get into office. This is where this subject ends.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #343 on: February 06, 2007, 11:02:22 AM »
why are the Dems pushing  Health Care? You have to be kidding. Look at everything they push,its all redistribution of wealth and increase in govt size, and to get votes. Why are most pols against Iraq now,even though many of them voted for it?  They  are gutless and go with the crowd rather than lead.
There is a chance to get some type  of national insurance coverage and that is by getting US corps behind it. Why are employers responsible for health insurance? go figure. Thomas Freidmans plan makes a lot of sense and is a better plan than the dems tired old attacks on rich and anyone who makes over 75 grand a year.

The Democrats are responsible for the most monumentous and humane programs in the history of the country JACK!  If you want to talk about BIG government just look at DOUCHEBAG BUSH!  The governtment is 3 times what it was!  They are against Iraq now because this administration LIED to EVERYONE!  It is up to the rich to fund this stuff, they did it during the great depression and that compassion turned this country into a super power.  As the republicans have GAINED ground, the compassion has been lost.  It will come back my friend.  BANK ON IT!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline northernguy

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #344 on: February 06, 2007, 11:13:10 AM »
We have neurosurgeons in Canada ::)
Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #345 on: February 06, 2007, 11:27:07 AM »
All it takes is the largest political party contributors and lobbyists to threaten and the Universal Health Care idea goes by the waste side. Clinton tried, where did it go. Yep, file thirteen. Why, because that is where they get their money. How many here gives thousands of dollars to a political campain? You will never be able to infringe on big business.The politicians aren't going to screw with the contributors that gave them money to get into office. This is where this subject ends.

Rod, I do agree with you on this partially.   The part I agree with is all the contributions made to political campaigns.   This sickens me.   

However, I have to wonder when someone like the Gates or Warren Buffet donate billions to charity if perhaps there is a bit of change in the air.   All it would take is for one or two other billionares to fund a campaign for Universal Health Care and reprogram America to think it's a good idea.   Or, if let's say the majority of voters feel universal health care is a good idea.   

Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #346 on: February 06, 2007, 11:35:34 AM »
You can't vote on anything that can't pass through both houses and be put before a voters to be voted on. It doesn't matter that Gates and Buffet donated millions to a cause. People can't donated millions to a political party. There is a limit to how much a political party can receive from individuals. I believe that they are working to even lesson that amount.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #347 on: February 06, 2007, 12:25:46 PM »
Well, this is unusual for our good ole Red state of Texas.   Our Governor here in Texas has started of his State of the State Address focusing on health care issues.   That's a first from him.   Seems as though even the Republicans are starting to worry bout the health care issue already perhaps?
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #348 on: February 06, 2007, 12:50:06 PM »
And watch them back track like they did when Clinton was in office when the corporate giants start putting pressure on them.

Offline Ann

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Re: Is health care a right?
« Reply #349 on: February 06, 2007, 12:56:36 PM »
The politicians aren't going to screw with the contributors that gave them money to get into office. This is where this subject ends.

Yes, very true. That's something else that needs to be fixed - the fact that corporate America can buy so much influence in how the country is run.

 
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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