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Author Topic: AIDS March on Washington  (Read 36116 times)

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Offline Lisa

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AIDS March on Washington
« on: January 29, 2007, 03:34:21 PM »
   I have had this idea floating around in my head for several months now. It has consumed my daydream moments, as well as my ability to concentrate on other things.

   Given the fact that the 2008 presidential election year is coming up soon, we must be vigilant that our votes are important, and our collective needs are ever increasing. At the time of this writing, there are roughly 25 million people diagnosed, and an unprecedented number of new infections growing by leaps, and bounds.
We finally have presidential candidates willing to say the words 'HIV AIDS' without choking, and we need to be heard.

   We all drew a collective sigh that Ryan White funding was approved again this year, and we had to be grateful that there were no cuts, but we also know that the truth is, it has been flat funded for years now, despite our ever increasing population.

   I think it is imperative that we hold a march on Washington in 2008. As many of us as can get there, by whatever means necessary. AIDS is not going away, and it has been relegated to the back burner by our current government, who believe that you just need to not have sex, and you will be OK. Does that make you want to scream to the rafters? It does me. Our kids are being fed bullpoo, or nothing at all. We are constantly being forced to look at the hideous plight of the peoples of Africa, and I appreciate their need, but why must it be at the expense of our own people.
People right here in these very forums!


   If we could acheive a near million people(aka millionAIDSmarch), we could then utilize this very fact that what is represented here is but a miniscule number, in comparison to the known/diagnosed people here in the good old U.S. of A.
Aids is not a druggie's disease, it is not a gay disease, it is not a simple thing to address, or treat. It is a devastating disease that is different for each individual, because of the ability of the virus to mutate.

   We need public awareness! I have seen old black and white filmstrips(before the word infomercial was invented)that were made in the 1940's, that stated clearly what Syphillis, and Gonorrhea were, how to prevent them(condoms), and how to get treatment. These were not only shown to every GI before going off to serve, they were shown to the folks back home, as a service to minimize the damage that Syph. could do long term. The women and children were informed right along side of the GI's.

   Why have we gone backwards? Why in the 21st century have we taken a step back in time to before what has been widely popularized as our 'age of innocence'? Here we are 60 years later, and our government has it's collective head up it's ass, instead of encouraging a widely public message about the FACTS of this pandemic. How hard could it be to give attention to the disease that is decimating our population?

   Men, women, children, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers, cousins, are all being affected, and infected without our leaders (I said LEADERS) being candid about this real threat to our existence as a nation. If we continue in this vein, we will have no need for national defense, because our nation will die off, just like the dinosaurs, or the neanderthals.
Do you realize we are approaching numbers globally that will soon compete with the numbers of deaths from the bubonic plague?

   I will admit that I have no earthly idea how to go about this plan, as my brain is firing on less than 6 cylinders, as this virus has claimed many brain cells.
I had no idea of pulling AIDSMEDS per-se into this, but wanted to start something unique and different. I talked with a man who has been a firey activist, as well as, a most competent web-site builder. I respect his thought process, and his first advice was to file for a 501c3(non-profit org.), then construct a website to handle message boards for rides to connect, and communication between folks.
   I have spent the day researching how to file the necessary 501c3. First of all, it takes five hundred dollars to have your application accepted, and reviewed. I don't have that. Second of all, a 501c3 is for people who are starting a businessof some sort, and this in no way could be construed as a business.

   I want this to be a call to all of the HIV/AIDS peoples across the USA. I am open to suggestions, and I am aware that there are practical considerations ie; porta-potties for the masses etc. but there is over a year for the planning process.
I asked Mr. Staley for pointers regarding permits and things given his dedication to activism in the early years. I also queried Mr. Velez for ideas, as well as, people to contact etc. Both were most helpful, and most gracious in their replies.

   There are many details to be hammered out, but the primary focus now is getting the word out nationwide. I am so grateful to have this generous venue in which to place this entire subject.
Peter, Tim, and Andy, have provided the fore-vision, and I now have the opportunity to appeal to members across the nation, as well as our international members who will support us without hesitation.

   I envision this to be a peaceful march that will firstly be a representation of our growing numbers, and the additional(Ryan White) funding necessary to encompass the new cases. The absolute need for increased pharmacological funding for R&D of treatment drugs, a national plan for education of the masses so that we are no longer treated like less than human because we possess a viral protein that is difficult to pin down and treat. It is time that we seriously consider a universal health care initiative that will undoubtedly be funded by increased taxes, but we the people need to stipulate that these/certain taxes are for this purpose only, and not tagged by/as pork money.

   As Mr Velez eloquently pointed out that summers in DC can be downright life-threatening for our population due to the heat, it is wise that we consider either the spring, or fall for this march. One of the many reasons I hesitated to present this to the forums in general had to do with asking people to do a political thing, when many will be anticipating attendance of an AMG. To date, they have been held in the fall of the year, and I would not presume to detract from this wondrous event, so I have been battling with my convictions. I feel that coming together in the spring, would be too far away from the election to be of importance. I feel a sincere duty to my fellow forum members to not ask this huge political statement to be concurrent, or in conflagration of the AMG.
I am fully aware that the AMG is a special event that many spend their vacation time for, and I would never wish to detract from this, because I completely understand the importance of the fellowship of this singular event. By the same token, I would like to impress upon our own community the importance of our collective minds for the government/country we envision.

   Through these forums, I have met a person who is most adept at constructing a website for this singular purpose, as I am so technologically challenged, but will help out of the goodness of his conviction. I know of another person who will help with some of the other operations of this site, but it is simply a grass roots effort. The website man looked while we were talking, and found that millionaidsmarch was not taken. I hope that this can be a place where ride info can be exchanged.
I figure, that if a bunch of teenagers can text each other and quickly construct flash mobs, then we can construct something of meaning in the year with advance notice.

   Though I am posting this today, my friend will need a couple of weeks(as he does have a business to run) to construct a site we can use. I just want to get feedback from my fellow members here. This is important. This is our future, and the future of those who will undoubtedly follow us.



   Please respond with feedback, and/or opinions of value.


   It simply is time!































« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 08:24:30 PM by Lisa »
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline marc11864

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2007, 07:17:03 PM »
Well one idea would be to coordinate this with other organizations who'd have a vested interest in this. Additionally if it is possible to get the Names Project on board with something like this for another mass display like they used to do in the Park that would be a powerful statement. I'm not sure what the logistics of such an endeavour are.

For what it's worth, I do think that you are on to a great idea!

Anyway, that's my two cents at this point.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 08:42:31 PM »
Yes Marc,
I have compiling a list, but my first thought is to write a letter to POZ, stating my objective, and asking if they can be of assistance.

Of course, my first love will always be aidsmeds. I would have lost my religion, and my sanity long ago, but for the people I love here.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 08:47:33 PM »
Dear Lisa,

You have been reading my mind...I will do whatever I can to help. Times awastin'!!!

Hal

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 09:25:40 PM »
Dear Hal,
I am less than feebly able to take acount of the multitude of folk I would wish to send this message to, but I strongly advise that we look to the Big and Little of being Out Therebecause it will begin when you go public.
I have been giving my personal demographic information to any and all for over a year without ill reprisal, not that I would normally.

We need to seriously band together in this day, and age.

I am so into this whole idea. I think we need to be heard for so many reasons.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 11:13:17 PM by Lisa »
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2007, 02:47:43 AM »
For someone not "firing on all six cylinders", that sounds like one hell of an idea you've got going! 

Be it known that I am friends with several people that work for the NAMES Project (The Quilt) here in Atlanta.  In fact, I know a woman named Gertie that maintains The Quilt, handstitching the frayed ends of each individual piece in storage as they need it.  I was once ''spooled'' by her for volunteer help I gave at the AIDS Walk in Atlanta about three years ago.  ("Spooling" is being given a sort of nadge of honor for service in the name of The Quilt, just fyi.)  As this moves along, let me know what I can do to help.  Peter, Andy, Lisa...all of you who want to be involved...you know how to reach me.

Tim Hunter

Edited to Say:  How karmic that Lisa just now popped back online!  Intense....LOL
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2007, 03:16:33 AM »
Thanks Tim. I haven't been online as much because my friend came to stay with me for a bit. He had complete access to my computer.
I was here, and in and out.

I just want to get the word out early.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2007, 03:28:40 AM »
That's cool. Just wanted you to know that I could help somehow or another. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Val

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2007, 04:54:29 AM »
Lisa,
I'll be your European ally for whatever  needs being done on this side of the pond.  Congratulations for the awesome idea, hon!
And, yes, I'd be there!

Val
___
___
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline anniebc

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2007, 05:19:01 AM »
Hi Lisa

If there is anything I can do over this side of the world..please don't hesitate in letting me know...anything for a lady who has a heart as big as Australia/NZ.

Hugs
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Jeffreyj

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2007, 05:19:30 AM »
Lisa,
You idea is a bold one, and it needs to happen. We are far to complacent in this country. The silence is deafening, you might say.

I would be honored to be part of something like this. So keep thinking, and i will do the same. I will start talking to people I know here in Arizona.


I'll let you know what ideas come forward.

Jeff
Positive since 1985

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2007, 11:58:38 AM »
*

Offline pozguy75

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2007, 03:14:01 PM »
Lisa, count me in! What a great IDEA...Funny...the AD for "Does HIV Look Like Me?" is on this page right now...imagine all the people and imagine what kind of impact will have with all the people converging on the capitol! I love it!!

You go GRRRL!!!

I will PM you my contact info!

J
Dx 2005
ATRIPLA

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2007, 05:19:07 PM »
We should "INFECT" Washington.  Bring our masses like a huge Viral Load.  This is a great idea.

Washington DC HIV INFECTION Tour 2007!!!

Are you infectious? 

Catch the infection! 

Just thinking outloud how to make it Press Releasable and News grabbing!  Has to be catchy.  Million Man March had alliteration going for it.  If you want it to stick it has to be like BANG all up in your face.  But hey, thats just how I roll!!!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2007, 05:23:43 PM »
Tim leaves his chair in the shadows and steps forward to say thank you my dear for loosing your mind......

I want to be perfectly clear here and make sure you understand that with this post, Tim took $100 out of savings and placed it in his Washington D.C. "MILLION-AIDS-MARCH" savings account.  I will not only stand beside you on this one, I will volunteer to do whatever might be needed.

First off.

1.  You will need the 501c (3) status but that is not terribly difficult as we can "Umbrella" under another HIV organization's nonprofit status with a simple "Memorandum of Understanding" between the board of Million-AIDS-March, MAM, and the board of the already created nonprofit that we will partner with.  Yes dear, you have the burn and you have the conviction,,,,,, and,,,,, you have the heart and I now elect you; Lisa; as Chair of the Board.

2.  This cannot happen if you are not already a "Nonprofit Corporation" which does not require a 501 c (3) status, but only a board of directors and a Mission Statement.  Little else is required and when that paperwork is done, then you go ahead with the Memorandum of Understanding with another organization and Presto, you are now done and the work can begin in earnest.

3.   Make sure that you have all your ducks in a row, and then the fundraising can begin.  I don't think for this, that raising money will be that difficult, but I would suggest that if we accept any donations from any corporations that there be NO strings attached.  I know that the Drug Companies might be interested in donating as the mere sight of a million survivors on the D.C. Mall would really be "World News".

4.   Some of the things that need to be sought out are suppliers of complimentary water, wheel chairs, sunscreen, blankets (for those in physical shock), pushers for wheel chairs, loads of "clean" food, medical staff and much more that will become apparent as we move forward.  In any case, many will want to be a part of this on a commercial level, so we need to get our needs lists created soon.

5.   My prayers are going to be with you today and from here forward and I will commit to help in any way possible.


In Love and total Support.
Tim.

P.S.  I think that there are 25 million infections world wide, and the figure for the United States is more like 1,400,000.  Either way, the numbers are currently astounding and we will make an impact no matter how many can show up to the party.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2007, 06:10:57 PM »
Your expertise will be greatly appreciated Timmy my love. Right now my head is spinning with all of the practical considerations.
I will need a great deal of help, and am so delighted that you have all been so supportive of this idea.
Bless each and every one of you!
Guess I need to address the umbrella idea first, as the one thing I left out of the original post was that there are currently 7,000 501c3 applications on file, and backlogged, awaiting decisions.
I am totally unsure of how to address fundraising.
I'm gonna need a LOT of help!
Here we go gang.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2007, 07:04:35 PM »
Lisa, I'm glad you're moving forward with this idea which you discussed with me a while ago.

ACT UP is currently planning to commemorate its 20th Anniversary in March with a demonstration here in NYC, (and hopefully across the country with other chapters and concerned organizations join in), with a demand for universal health care.

That was recently chosen as the theme for the demonstration because it was felt that although our most immediate concern is about HIV/AIDS, the problems related to getting proper funding and other problems related to HIV/AIDS are tied in with the overall failure of our health system in this country.

So it was felt that OUR problem is a shared one with all our fellow Americans. As a part of this demonstration there will be elements directed at pharmas, health insurance companies, Wall Street and government, each of which play a part in why our health system needs to be changed. Totally changed. And not just in pieces namby pamby dragging along with sops to individual groups.


HIV/AIDS activists hope to engage unions and other health-concerned groups among others to join in our demand for an end to this broken system. This would end the competition amongst those in need and turn the focus on to the source of the problem. During the coming months every Presidential candidate is going to be held to account and expected to support this demand or be put on the spot making their refusal to do so clear to the public. 

A kind of piecemeal approach to dealing with the problem as has been suggested by some including Hillary Clinton,  in which x millions of children not presently covered would have healthcare is not acceptable. It's not enough. And it's a mistake to settle for less than the whole thing. The problem has to be addressed with much more courage and imagination. It has finally become a problem so large for so many Americans that we think this change -- this revolution in healthcare if you will -- can be accomplished.

In the coming weeks you're going to be hearing more about this. The ACT UP action is scheduled for March 27th.

We don't want more thin gruel. We want a whole fresh friggin' pie of health care for all.

If things go as we hope and plan, the march you have in mind can be a march for all Americans to get behind supporting universal health care in this country. The United States is alone among major countries in the world in being without this kind of health coverage for its citizens. Until now South Africa was the only other major country which didn't over such coverage. Now South Africa has such coverage.

So we're shamefully standing alone in our government's refusal to provide proper healthcare for all. it's a deadly collusion of insurance companies and pharma greed and government cupidity, indifference and inefficiency, and its indebtedness to insurance companies, pharmas and other lobbies which is blocking proper healthcare for all of us. Those of us living with HIV/AIDS should not be fighting other Americans for what we need.

We need to focus on the real cancer in the system and change the whole damn system.
This is the time for us to get what we need not just for ourselves but for everyone.

I'm wishing you well with your plans, Lisa. And I hope it will become a part of a groundswell which will change healthcare for everyone here. Only by daring to reach for and work for the seemingly impossible can such a change actually come about.

This not a time to be "sensible."

The chants we used to do twenty years ago at demos ares truer than ever today:

WE'RE FIGHTING FOR YOUR LIVES TOO!

HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT!  HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT! HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT!

     
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 07:10:28 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2007, 07:52:56 PM »
LOL  ACinKC's post made my head start strumming with more slogans....


Make Change Infectious. 

Inspire Raw Activism.

Breed Hope.


(Just brainstorming....)
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2007, 08:03:39 PM »
Damned if I didn't almost come out of my seat and start chanting with you friend!
I still say, it just simply is time!
Thank you Andy. I hope I can count on you for counsel, as I haven't the foggiest clue what I'm doing. I just feel we need to stand up and be recognized.
WE need an inclusive health care initiative.
We need to make plans to really educate our kids about the truth of protecting themselves. We need the country to become educated about this disease, and the long range damage that will occur unless, or until, we all understand the implications of this pandemic on our population. Pharma needs to understand that it is wholly a betrayal to gouge the very population they are producing for.
See? Now I'm all on a rant again.

HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT!
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2007, 08:21:38 PM »
Addressing the specific issue of infection prevention education is #2 on the ACT UP Hit Parade. The plan now is to have an action related to that within days of the March 27th action. Stay tuned for more info about.

Actually it's not so much a matter of educating pharmas and insurance companies as it is taking the power of decision away from them. They are by definition not educateable. Their goals are different than ours. Someone at the meetings has been promoting the slogan, "Kill insurance companies before they kill us." I don't like the use of the word "kill." ACT UP has always been confrontational without being violent so I don't want "kill" in there. But you get the idea of how strong feelings are about this and the idea is to make clear we're not going for any halfway measures about this.

Everything you need to know you'll learn as you go along, Lisa. And you will have help from others. That's how I have always found it to be. If you try something and it doesn't work you try something else. And anything non-violent is ok.

If everyone starts talking this up wherever they go and with everyone from ASOs to medical people to whomever, it will grow. It will grow and GROW. 

A side benefit of getting involved in this stuff is great for your T-cells.  Really.

xxxxxx 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 08:27:35 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Jody

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2007, 09:40:18 PM »
Dear Lisa and all...Great idea Lisa with the presidential elections next November...Next Spring would be good but September or October, with still nice weather in Washington and so close to Election Day would probably carry the most clout...Count me in.  Let's talk !!!

Andy- you have been there with Peter, Tim, Sean Strub, Michael Petrelis and so many other men AND women at the forefront (as outlined in New York's Gay City News (Jan 18-24, 2007) for those online it is www.gaycitynews.com and much thanks for all your efforts over the years that continue...I see March 27th is mentioned...I know it is on a Tuesday- is that advantageous over a Saturday or Sunday? - Either way I have it circled on my calendar to participate and hopefully you will let us all know the starting time and starting point that day and what we may do (or bring).

Rock on all.

Jody
"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world".
 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2007, 07:26:19 AM »
The date is March 29th, Jody. A Thursday. That way it can be in the media and press on Thursday night and Friday am.

Actions are rarely planned for a Friday because Saturday is considered a dead day for media coverage. We learned through experience about that and didn't and don't call ourselves "media sluts" for nothing.
Andy Velez

Offline AIDS2HIV

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2007, 11:19:20 AM »
good luck, personally i think a protest at the capitol is gonna get the same results, no matter who it is, as its gotten any other time there was a protest. They will say something to everyone to pacify you, and in a couple days, when you are back at home and off thier streets, its right back to business as usual. Protests only prove one thing, the effort everyone is willing to put forth, is to make signs, and bitch about things....honestly, what makes you think they will look at this any different than they look at illegal imigration, racial protests, etc?

Its like Act Up, dont get me wrong, they got some attention on meds issues back in the 80's when they needed it, but thats where it stopped. The politicians pacified the complainers, the complainers, felt they had done enough. marching on capitol hill wont accomplish much good, you are addressing the wrong people...its society worldwide, that you must address when it comes to HIV.

good luck*
Its the future of Hiv Education, and Resources www.aids2hiv.com      Got Community?

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2007, 12:54:21 PM »
I say ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC,CNN, and C-SPAN are a good start! Especially at a time when the pundits are trying the hardest to pretend they care.
It's all still getting the word out, and hopefully we can engender a national dialogue at the very least.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2007, 01:14:23 PM »
good luck, personally i think a protest at the capitol is gonna get the same results, no matter who it is, as its gotten any other time there was a protest. They will say something to everyone to pacify you, and in a couple days, when you are back at home and off thier streets, its right back to business as usual. Protests only prove one thing, the effort everyone is willing to put forth, is to make signs, and bitch about things....honestly, what makes you think they will look at this any different than they look at illegal imigration, racial protests, etc?

Its like Act Up, dont get me wrong, they got some attention on meds issues back in the 80's when they needed it, but thats where it stopped. The politicians pacified the complainers, the complainers, felt they had done enough. marching on capitol hill wont accomplish much good, you are addressing the wrong people...its society worldwide, that you must address when it comes to HIV.

good luck*

Do I really need to point out such obvious things here?  Hello?  Marching on Washington (and similar activities) brings media attention which....(Note the dots here- they are meant to represent a mental connection for you).....brings the issue before society at large once again

And thank God for those complainers that are mentioned.  I'm about to swallow what little slice of physical salvation I may have available to me because of their willingness to ''make signs and bitch about things''.  It is admitted that ACT UP ''got some attention on meds back in the 80's when they needed it''.  So what makes it seem so certain our efforts won't garner any results now?  And if any action that results from this protest "stops'' after a time...well, guess what?  We may take up the call yet again...and again...and again...(more mental connection dots here).

Since some seem so ready to dismiss this endeavor as having any meaningful benefit, it begs the question:  So what is the alternate suggestion?  Addressing society worldwide how?  What plan B is in mind when this idea is being dismissed?

I'm all ears.  Go.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 01:16:00 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2007, 01:29:15 PM »
WOW I normally dont get too fired up about this stuff but damn Thunter!  HERE HERE!

Still think a catchy slogan is in order.  But thats the sales/creative side in me screaming out!

HIV doesnt kill people, Red tape does!  (although i dont like how it downplays the disease at the same time the STIGMA is that it kills you so it may play well in the public eye)

hmmmmmmmmmm im still thinking.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2007, 01:39:18 PM »
Yeah!  And maybe it's time to say this:


Perhaps it's time for this to become THE hot forum on here.  I can't thank Lisa enough for this. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2007, 01:43:35 PM »
Now dats what i'm talkin bout!!!!
We go back again, and again, and again, until our 'leaders' get the message that we aren't playing anymore.
I only just began to plumb the depths of "How to Demonstrate Peacefully" at the ACTUP site this morning at the crack of dawn( or...before the crows peed, as we call it in the south), but I didn't need to read lessons on how to do this, I was witness to the non-stop protests that occured in our Capitol during the late sixties, and early seventies. I got practical lessons during the riots that happened in Detroit just up the street from me.

You simply do it until.

If what you have been doing isn't working, then it is time to consider doing something else!
Like Andy said earlier, we aren't just doing it for us, we want it for everyone!
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2007, 04:23:12 PM »
Yes, and let me clarify my above statement about "I can't thank Lisa enough for this", if I may.

There has been a great deal of grumbling on these forums about how they "just aren't like they used to be" and how some of us in the ''social set of members'' are more interested in discussing, well...all things penis.  Porn, dating issues and the like.  I have maintained that I find validity in those issues in and of themselves because they are a part of the very real ''living'' side of HIV / AIDS.  And just being able to socialize with others who understand where one is coming from in life is a support in and of itself...for all things from alpacas to Atripla. 

But I have bristled quite a bit about the distinction between the old war horses and us younger folks here...and especially about how some of us are seen as not being able to fully appreciate the more "somber issues" brought up or are as interested in discussing heavier topics or calls for action.  I have said in those cases what I said above:  If things are not working the way you think they should be on here, be the change you seek.  Show others what you mean by your idea of what this site should be, how change should be brought about here and in society at large.  Many of us just want more seasoned people to step forward and show us how it is done so that we can take the baton ourselves for the next leg of the race.  We want it.  We need it.  Ourselves and the others that will follow behind us depend on it.

For that, I thank you Lisa.

Tim
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 04:30:03 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2007, 04:42:30 PM »
OK Tim, you want porn....  I just came in my pants reading about how you are bristling there....  Ccooool Man...

I can't tell you all what joy this brings to my heart, and Lisa, while in the shower, I was thinking of a load of things to place on a to-do list.  I would like to know if you want that here in this thread for all to see or would you like it via e-mail.  The list isn't long but requires a bit of groundwork that can get us all on the way with progress right away.  I take it from some of the responses that this thread might compose some of the movers and shakiers of this particular movement.

I find it interesting that the one person commenting here that has the most capability to impact this event with their own website; was in fact the most negative and most derisive of this type of thing.  Glad they were wrong, or else none of us would have the medications we would need today if nothing had happened in the past that was of any consequence.  I guess negatives keep the positives stirred up and going in the good direction.

This thread is bringing me back to life, and I thank you allllllllll..!!!!!!!!!!!

In thanks,
Tim.      Yeeeee Haaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2007, 04:45:52 PM »
It reminds me of a movie quote from the movie The Siege.

"In this game, the most committed wins!"

I find in life, this is true in all aspects.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2007, 04:46:04 PM »
We should "INFECT" Washington.  Bring our masses like a huge Viral Load.  This is a great idea.

Washington DC HIV INFECTION Tour 2007!!!

Are you infectious? 

Catch the infection! 

Just thinking outloud how to make it Press Releasable and News grabbing!  Has to be catchy.  Million Man March had alliteration going for it.  If you want it to stick it has to be like BANG all up in your face.  But hey, thats just how I roll!!!

I'm with you, AC!  I'd love to brainstorm with others to be on a creative committee for this.  Your post made me think of some things.  From the Free Dicitonary definition of load:

a. The share of work allocated to or required of a person, machine, group, or organization.
b. The demand for services or performance made on a machine or system.


The Viral Load Redefined:  AIDS March On Washington

It's Time For A Mutation Of Attitudes

Working Together For REAL Viral Suppression


Just a few new thoughts building on yours, AC.  99 out of 100 may be deemed crap, but one or two might resonate.  Who knows?

Tim

(Who just KNEW Moffie would be posting in moments once he saw him online!  LOL)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 04:55:30 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2007, 04:50:11 PM »
I'm with you, AC!  I'd love to brainstorm with others to be on a creative committe for this.  Your post made me think of some things.  From the Free Dicitonary definition of load:

a. The share of work allocated to or required of a person, machine, group, or organization.
b. The demand for services or performance made on a machine or system.


The Viral Load Redefined:  AIDS March On Washington

It's Time For A Mutation Of Attitudes


Working Together For REAL Viral Suppression


Just a few new thoughts building on yours, AC.  99 out of 100 may be deemed crap, but one or two might resonate.  Who knows?

Tim

(Who just KNEW Moffie would be posting in moments once he saw him online!  LOL)


Whole heartedly agree, you have to brainstorm like that to get the good ideas to the top.  Coma's SUCK moffie!  Glad to have you back!  (thats sarcasm, i am referring to your recent abscence as a COMA like state to be funn.... forget it... welcom back ya ol fart!)
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2007, 04:54:24 PM »
Hands up!  How many others here are finding this thread incredibly exciting?  This...the activism forum...which has also been in somewhat of a COMA for awhile now.  LOL

I'm just all abuzz about this thread and forum now.  With all due respect to my fellow Porn Thread tramps, I've been peering here first for new replies since yesterday.*



*This in no way reflects any diminished trampiness on the part of the poster.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2007, 05:04:46 PM »

It's Time For A Mutation Of Attitudes

Working Together For REAL Viral Suppression


Tim,

These are both very good, because they force thought and explanation.  I can hear it now on American Morning on CNN with Soledad explaining it in detail..  Remember she is from Vallejo, California, just a boat ride away from where this all started on the West Coast.  It is very personal to her.  Most news outlets might miss the double meaning, but double meaning leaves it open for them to either look really stupid or really on the spot.

I elect you to become Chair of the Creative Committee.  While you are at it, see if a certain friend of ours who is one of your neighbors would like to start throwing around some ideas.  He really needs something like this again in his life.  It will really re-grow the damaged neurons from the PCP fevers.  Truly it really works.

AC, I don't know your name but I would think that with your penchant for marketing, we will certainly have some needs for you to be involved.  Also with your combined talent and a certain cherub in Atlanta's connections to Hollyweird, well I just see so much possibility.  Susan Sarrandan comes to mind as an honored guest speaker on the Mall.  Barbara also.  Hell, get 'em all there.  They will be in D.C. alot then as they will be fighting tooth and nail for either Barak, or Hillary, so we should be able to make some connections there.

Oh the juices are flowing and I am working on staying calm, as I cannot go overboard here.  I will explode if I do.

AC, if you didn't notice, this shit really gets my blood flowing and is the meat of what I am here to do.  I am a survivor, and I didn't do it sitting on my ass arguing about symantics and hurt feelings.  Those are just static that goes along with the work..  Hell, I've been in HIV funding distribution meetings where briefcases were flying....  Ohh the fun...

Tim, trampiness is like refreshments, can't live with them and can't live without them...

Love you guys.
Tim.

Thanks Guys,
Tim.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2007, 05:11:13 PM »
AC, I don't know your name but I would think that with your penchant for marketing, we will certainly have some needs for you to be involved.  Also with your combined talent and a certain cherub in Atlanta's connections to Hollyweird, well I just see so much possibility.  Susan Sarrandan comes to mind as an honored guest speaker on the Mall.  Barbara also.  Hell, get 'em all there.  They will be in D.C. alot then as they will be fighting tooth and nail for either Barak, or Hillary, so we should be able to make some connections there.

Name is Andrew.  And im lost with the "cherub in Atlanta" connection thingy?!?!?!  I am assuming its another member and they have media connections.  We have the perfect avenue of exposure in POZ magazine, after that you would think we would start by hitting up Reagan and the girls to contact Oprah.  You get there...youre GOLDEN!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline AIDS2HIV

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2007, 05:23:48 PM »
Do I really need to point out such obvious things here?  Hello?  Marching on Washington (and similar activities) brings media attention which....(Note the dots here- they are meant to represent a mental connection for you).....brings the issue before society at large once again

And thank God for those complainers that are mentioned.  I'm about to swallow what little slice of physical salvation I may have available to me because of their willingness to ''make signs and bitch about things''.  It is admitted that ACT UP ''got some attention on meds back in the 80's when they needed it''.  So what makes it seem so certain our efforts won't garner any results now?  And if any action that results from this protest "stops'' after a time...well, guess what?  We may take up the call yet again...and again...and again...(more mental connection dots here).

Since some seem so ready to dismiss this endeavor as having any meaningful benefit, it begs the question:  So what is the alternate suggestion?  Addressing society worldwide how?  What plan B is in mind when this idea is being dismissed?

I'm all ears.  Go.

while everyone else. has sat back and complained, or put forth the effort of how they will go about something, anything....i have just gotten up and done things. I start in the scholl systems in march, just got word yesterday, in fact. My education curriculum i developed, has been tested, and proven not only in my community area, but a few others as well. and to be quite honest, its snowballing.

The solution is simple. As a society, worldwide, we must first admit to our fellow citizens that HIV is in fact, a threat to each of us. The second thing we, as a society, NEED to do is to remove ALL the politics from HIV. Without these 2 factors, all curriculum will fail when it comes to fighting the HIV virus.

thats what i have done, and well to be honest, my area of "society" is now looking at adopting my work statewide. I have done this with no outside funding whatsoever, and to be honest, all its required from me, is gas money, time, and my personal efforts.

you are missing my point, you all want to march and protest, but really, what do you have personally to show the politicians that you are doing to show what you want works? i can tell you eyes wide open.....take it to a politician, you will get nothing but politics in return......

do you not realize, the impact one of you people can make on society by getting involved in the actual solution? by actually showing the people in your community. Real change is made by actually doing, meaning actions must speak, before words are spoken. With HIV, to make progress you must lead by example...proof is in the past. Doctors didnt learn anything until they started listening to, and monitoring HIV patients. And politicians arent gonna listen to ANYONE, unless they are lining thier personal pockets*

here's an example what i am trying to tell you about taking this TO the politicians...now, before ya start in about the topic of this article, just change it to HIV...because whether you will admit or realize, its all done the same...regardless of topic*

Scientists tell Congress they felt pressure to downplay threat of global warming
     WASHINGTON (AP) - Federal scientists have been pressured to play down global warming, advocacy groups testified Tuesday at the Democrats' first investigative hearing since taking control of Congress.
     The hearing focused on allegations that the White House for years has micromanaged the government's climate programs and has closely controlled what scientists have been allowed to tell the public.
     "It appears there may have been an orchestrated campaign to mislead the public about climate change." said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif. Waxman is chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee and a critic of the Bush adminsitration's environmental policies, including its views on climate.

pay particular attention to this: " the White House for years has micromanaged the government's climate programs and has closely controlled what scientists have been allowed to tell the public."

the media is controlled by the government as well as doctor, scientists, etc......you are going about it the wrong way* Open YOUR own eyes, before expecting others to open theirs. take it to the people in each of your communities....as many members as there are here, alot of ground can be covered, otherwise, states an provinces of people doing it because it works best, will go farther than any march.....especially when the march is an appeal to politicians*
Its the future of Hiv Education, and Resources www.aids2hiv.com      Got Community?

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2007, 05:30:04 PM »
Hi Andrew,

I think Oprah is also a good way to go, but knowing a bit about the way she operates, we will have to have everything ironed out and our organization formed and some actual accomplishments under our belt before she will commit to anything.  She has been burned enough to make her very cautious.  

I am not saying anything negative here, just that we have to become a true "IT" before we should ask Regan to get in touch with the "O".  I know we can approach some other means to make it to the news first, then work our way up.  I know that the Advocate "should" help, but then they are not always very welcoming anymore either.

A to HIV,,,

Go negative all you want, we don't need your karma here.  I will not accept that all of our protests did nothing in the past!  Nope, just won't buy it... NO way NO how...  I know of a website where you can go negative all you want, and it is called "AIDS to HIV", OH yes, that one is yours.  By the way, AIDS and HIV are acronyms that are ALWAYS in capital letters.  Now go back to your site and correct all the bad spelling.

  

Tim..
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2007, 05:31:09 PM »
Thanks, Moffie!  I will be happy to assist in any capacity I can.  You mentioned American Morning.  I have very close associates with that very program.  I could almost certainly get calls taken in reference to this event...perhaps even about getting people on that show for representation.  I wouldn't have the least bit of fear of trying to push such a call through.


Oh!  Here's one (in reference to Andy's ACT UP focus on National Healthcare)...


Developing Resistance To The Medicine We're Having To Swallow  ...or something to that effect.

or:

Our Current Healthcare Can Be A Bitter Pill To Swallow

Same idea- a double meanings built in and such.


FILE UNDER:  Yet Another Thing To Be Thankful For With This Thread.

This thread has awakened me to just how much potential power is available through this very site.  We have artists, we have writers, we have actors and public speaker, we have poets, we have activists, we have computer gurus aplenty....do I need to go on?

Tim
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2007, 05:31:50 PM »
Wow I dont know where to start.  First off I dont think we are taking ANYTHING to the politicians are we?  We are more taking a message to the MEDIA to garner much needed attention and THEN hopefully support.  with the government you have to punch them in the face to get their attention.

As for the global warming pansies, maybe if they would have marched instead of going to the politicians with anything they would have been heard sooner.  As for the white house controlling things, they were controlling government led and funded programs, scientists and doctors.  WE ARE NOT GOVERNMENT FUNDED, and the day the people of this country cannot be heard by our government when WE deem necessary and in a peaceful yet FORCEFUL way is the day this country has died!

I agree that each of us can do more in our communities.  I do not in mine becasue of what I do and my family.  Its because of the stigma associated and thats wrong but it is just that, MY CHOICE.  Now, Washington is a whole diff. story.  I would be happy to help out where no one knows me or the families.  And if i happen to be "outted" at that point it will be MY STYLE!  BIG AND BOLD BABY, its how I roll!!!

« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 05:36:04 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2007, 05:45:23 PM »
I just can't believe that Lisa's original post was 1427 words.  That is a record for that girl...

Talk about passion...  Whew.

Tim, good one there with AM...  We need to keep that one resource for the future.  It is a really good way to reach the nation.
As for the slogans, any and most of the ones you have come up with are thought provoking, and we need several as there will be all kinds of signs and slogans needed to carry in the parade.  Only the main one needs to be really focused, pointed, and very brief.  Also, while I am on brief, we need to also brainstorm a Mission Statement, which should be no longer than something you can place at the bottom of a Letterhead. 

Andrew, the Cherub in Atlanta is none other than our own jkinatl2/Jonathan...  He has been on screen a time or two.

As I said last post, no more negatives here, we don't need em...

Truthfully,
Tim/M



The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2007, 05:45:39 PM »
Hi Andrew,

I think Oprah is also a good way to go, but knowing a bit about the way she operates, we will have to have everything ironed out and our organization formed and some actual accomplishments under our belt before she will commit to anything.  She has been burned enough to make her very cautious.  

I am not saying anything negative here, just that we have to become a true "IT" before we should ask Regan to get in touch with the "O".  I know we can approach some other means to make it to the news first, then work our way up.  I know that the Advocate "should" help, but then they are not always very welcoming anymore either.

A to HIV,,,

Go negative all you want, we don't need your karma here.  I will not accept that all of our protests did nothing in the past!  Nope, just won't buy it... NO way NO how...  I know of a website where you can go negative all you want, and it is called "AIDS to HIV", OH yes, that one is yours.  By the way, AIDS and HIV are acronyms that are ALWAYS in capital letters.  Now go back to your site and correct all the bad spelling.

  

Tim..

By the way I agree.  Im just a big picture kind of guy.  I have people that do the details, you dont want me doing details, you want me pitching ideas.  I suck at details.  BIG TIME!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2007, 05:53:21 PM »
I called the cherub today and left a message.
Hope he's around.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2007, 05:57:04 PM »
By the way I agree.  Im just a big picture kind of guy.  I have people that do the details, you dont want me doing details, you want me pitching ideas.  I suck at details.  BIG TIME!

Well Andrew,

Imagine that, guess who is a detail man.....  GUILTY.

See, this is going to make Tim titalate and bristle even more.  The team is forming and it is doing so naturally so who can argue that kind of karma.  

Timmie is a happy camper once again. 

Lisa, good to see you in the room.  Would you mind answering my question from above, and then I will compose the list.  Thanks for calling the Cherub.  I look foward to reading this thread tomorrow morning when I can't sleep at 2am.  For now, I have to go make a piece of meat loaf...

I Love This Shit!!!!
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2007, 06:08:24 PM »
Whoopsie Timmy,
Everything public, and transparent.
We all see. We all vote. We all work together.
Now......lets go rustle us up some other folk!

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No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2007, 06:13:15 PM »
Hey Lisa,

I'm with you on this.   I think this has been a unique time in our history with this unpopular war more people than ever are going to be voting in 2008.  

In order to get noticed we have to take a look at the competition.   With all the psycho religious mega groups preaching abstinence and against gay rights the whole HIV/AIDS issue gets overlooked.

Healthcare seems to be a trigger word as these various campaigns are unfolding.   I think everyone is fed up with the soaring health care costs and the crisis in our country.  

I think people are finally seeing Hypochristianity for what it is more than ever.   With the number 2 guy in Focus on the Family caught with his pants down and the various other scandals I think people are slowly waking up.

I agree with everyone that the main thing is to cordinate every HIV/AIDS group already in existence to cooperate.   Focus on the people on ADAP waiting lists and the horror stories of a few individuals.  

But yeah, I think this could be a good time to attempt to something like this.

I'm fed up with hearing about Africa and I wanted to puke when I heard Bush's State of the Union address about all the more money shipped out while nothing was mentioned here.  

Whoever mentioned Oprah.  Forget it!  She's got some idea Africa is the only place in the World with an Aids problem.   Majic Johnson had to let her know we have our own little Africa here at home.  Unless she could think out of her bubble I see her as a lost cause.   Well, maybe if you could get enough of the Black Aids organizations in the states together, otherwise her only interest is in self promotion, buying her next $50 million dollar home and becoming whiter by the minute.    Uh, I can't stand her ;)

But seriously, if you could do enough to battle off the Religious Wrong's influence by distracting them with enough causes it might be the year.

I didn't cordinate my thoughts very well, but I had to get my 2 cents in anyway ;)

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2007, 06:15:56 PM »
I'm detailed and I am angry...but in that good kind of angry way. What a AMG this is going to be. I will be calling you soon Lisa.

POWER TO THE INFECTED!!!

Hal

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2007, 06:25:52 PM »
I called the cherub today and left a message.
Hope he's around.


I intend to visit said cherub on Friday.  I have to pick up new meds then anyway.  Still haven't heard from him in a few days, but I am not above knocking on his door at this point- if I have not been able to get through to him before then.  Truthfully, won't be able to sleep peacefully if I don't.

And I have MUCH more to say to A2H up there, but may have to leave in a few moments...so it might have to be later on tonight before I can adequately reply.  Truthfully, I see some kernels of merit in what he is saying...though I am having to dig a bit to get at them.

For one thing, though:  Like I said, I am going to go down by cherub's place when I get my pills on Friday.  Pills, that like many, I have to receive via public funding. Given that so many of us ARE dependent on this supply to LIVE, how likely is it that we are gong to be able to "remove ALL the politics from HIV"?  That's a really weird statement to me.  I do kind of understand that idea of taking personal action to institute change, but there again:  HIV education in public schools?  How is one able to do that carte blanche without some nod from the government?  And...ah, hell!  Let me just go ahead and finish some of this now...

(And for the record:  Yes, I am in high titilation / bristle mode as we write)

A quote from A2H:  With HIV, to make progress you must lead by example...proof is in the past. Doctors didnt learn anything until they started listening to, and monitoring HIV patients. And politicians arent gonna listen to ANYONE, unless they are lining thier personal pockets*

Agreed, but isn't that what we are attempting to do here?  And doctors started listening to and monitoring patients why?  Because of the sign painting and bitching that you were maligning above.  And, yes...politicians listen when their pockets are lined.  How do they get lined?  By garnering public attention to issues and getting the public behind them.  Making it a popular thing to take a certain stand on a particular issue.  Often that is acheived by high-profile events with big name / famous supporters in the mix.  For a politician, having the chance to get your photo opp on the right side of an argument (let alone the right side of Oprah or some other celeb) can translate into campaign funds and votes.

Next quote:  what do you have personally to show the politicians that you are doing to show what you want works? i can tell you eyes wide open.....take it to a politician, you will get nothing but politics in return......

Good point.  Which brings me back to you personally...because you've gotten my attention here.  Just as I said that I am looking for leadership to teach me how to carry the torch, I can now look to you, right?  I don't want to highjack this particular thread, so I would appreiate it if you started another here in this Activism Forum to tell me (and all of us):  What is this new educational program you have started that is snowballing so?  How did you go about starting it?  How does one go about getting trained to do what you are doing in his or her own state?  What exactly should one expect in terms of all the costs associated with this education effort?  Who is the target audience you educate?  Where exactly do you teach this program?  How often and for approximately what size of audience at each time?  How long has this been going on?  How did you get inspired to start it?  Was there any program model that you followed?  These and so many other questions.  Again, step up and show us how it is done.  Some of us will take the torch.  I would love to learn about this program so that I could show a politician how it works.  Hell, so I could show Oprah how it works...and thus housewives across America if not the world.  I could talk about this program versus what is / isn't being taught in schools now...and how our education efforts could be made greater.  Yours and topics like it are great ones to get brought into light at the time maybe.

I applaud your localized efforts, but I would encourage you to consider the idea of getting your message out to a larger audience.  Hey!  Maybe you could set up a booth at our AIDS March On Washington?  At the very least, that would present a great opportunity to show your great education methods to others who might want to try to take it to their own states.


(There is probably more to say here- and I hope I have expressed myself somewhat clearly above.  I am a bit pressed for time at the moment.  If I need to, I will be happy to clarify etc later this evening.)

Tim

(Who is still very excited about this whole business)


AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2007, 06:29:33 PM »
One more thing...taking action does matter. I have my first regional training meeting 3/10 for the Tennessee Health Care Campaign. We are a group working for health care justice for all because we believe health care is a human right.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2007, 06:31:54 PM »
Andrew, as far as "taking things to politicians," that's going to happen too.

Polls indicate healthcare coverage is a major concern for the American public. As we get closer to the 2008 election those doll babies are going to be confronted everywhere about what they're going to do about healthcare. We'll see some it reflected in the 2007 election, although far fewer national offices are up for grabs then.

Hillary, Obama et al are going to have to declare themselves on this issue and we're not going to accept coverage for children as enough. We want the whole deal for everyone. And anyone who says oh but how can that be done?, well, that isn't going to fly. Once the focus shifts to how to make universal healthcare work then the energy can go into accomplishing that instead of just cosmetic stuff.

We don't need a nosejob on health care. We need a heart and brain transplant.

Slogans? Here are some maybes....

INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH

HEALTHCARE IS NOT A LUXURY
HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT

STOP HEALTHCARE FOR CONGRESS UNTIL ALL AMERICANS HAVE COVERAGE

REPEAL HEALTHCARE FOR POLITICIANS UNTIL ALL AMERICANS HAVE COVERAGE




« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 06:34:10 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2007, 06:51:45 PM »
Hey, Sammers!  Er, I mean...Hey, Auntie Doxie!   ;D


And one more thing:  For me personally, try as I might...I am having an increasingly difficult time separating this subject of HIV/AIDS from healthcare in general in my mind.  The two just seem so intertwined...with HIV/AIDS showing the ways our current system is working- and the multitude of ways in which it isn't.  Increasingly, AIDS is becoming a conceptual representation of how our system serves the population at large.  Not just us, but everyone.  I know this has been the case from the beginning, it just seems to be glaring brighter and brighter in my face with each coming day.  I think ACT UP is onto something with their anniversary choice.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2007, 06:57:50 PM »
Whoo hoo!

I'm uber-good friends with a guy who knows people with lots of money who do all the Virginia Pride stuff (he also has lotsa money and does Va. Pride as well...) given our proximity to DC, they doubtless have major experience with things like this. 

I'll need some specifics to sell to him... I don't know anything about this sort of thing, but I think the sort of experience he has would be invaluable.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2007, 07:05:23 PM »
Andrew, as far as "taking things to politicians," that's going to happen too.

Polls indicate healthcare coverage is a major concern for the American public. As we get closer to the 2008 election those doll babies are going to be confronted everywhere about what they're going to do about healthcare. We'll see some it reflected in the 2007 election, although far fewer national offices are up for grabs then.

Hillary, Obama et al are going to have to declare themselves on this issue and we're not going to accept coverage for children as enough. We want the whole deal for everyone. And anyone who says oh but how can that be done?, well, that isn't going to fly. Once the focus shifts to how to make universal healthcare work then the energy can go into accomplishing that instead of just cosmetic stuff.

We don't need a nosejob on health care. We need a heart and brain transplant.

Slogans? Here are some maybes....

INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH

HEALTHCARE IS NOT A LUXURY
HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT

STOP HEALTHCARE FOR CONGRESS UNTIL ALL AMERICANS HAVE COVERAGE

REPEAL HEALTHCARE FOR POLITICIANS UNTIL ALL AMERICANS HAVE COVERAGE






HA!   I love this last slogan Andy.   Boy wouldn't that get thier attention. ;)

I'm so sick of hearing about just children.    And, I was astonished that Lance Armstrong is already getting so much publicity for his plight to get all the funding for cancer.   I like some of his ideas, and he has some points about overall cost savings to the system if we implemented things we have to save lives for various types of cancer.    Perhaps, something similar could be used for pushing the AIDS crisis.

Oh, maybe hit up the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation.   Forget Oprah!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2007, 07:41:12 PM »
In addition to the above mentioned slogans/chants....
NO MORE WAITING LISTS

WAITING LISTS KILL
but those are HIV specific,

I do really like the entire platform that ACTUP has formulated. God/dess I'd like to be in the Apple for this one.

In addition, I would like to add, that I do understand, and respect A2H's thought process, but we won't get this kind of opportunity for quite some time, and I think the rest of our citizens are just as 'bristly/titillated' as we are on this one.



Remember the old adage; The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 07:46:57 PM by Lisa »
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2007, 07:44:40 PM »
In addition to the above mentioned slogans/chants....
NO MORE WAITING LISTS

WAITING LISTS KILL
but those are HIV specific,

I do really like the entire platform that ACTUP has formulated. God/dess I'd like to be in the Apple for this one.

HEY, HEY, USA.  HOW MANY UNINSURED DID YOU KILL TODAY?
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline AIDS2HIV

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2007, 08:42:56 PM »
I say ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC,CNN, and C-SPAN are a good start! Especially at a time when the pundits are trying the hardest to pretend they care.
It's all still getting the word out, and hopefully we can engender a national dialogue at the very least.


all those were there for the 2 day Bill Clinton presentation, Bono's RED campaign, ThinkMTV, etc. Nothing significant has ever come about from it, has it?

they were all there for the imigrant march as well........15 mins of fame, after 3 or 4 days the general public put it to rest. They certainly didnt gain what they set out to. simply because they concentrated into one area, and that area happened to be....the political doorstep.

with HIV, people want what works, truth is a rare commodity now-a-days, but to everyday people in this society its a precious commodity, to the politicians it means nothing......who ya gonna take it to?

example: if there was 100 that said yes ill go march......thats only one hundred. Take that same 100, educating thier own communities, and lets say thier villages were 1000 people strong, those 100 voices could turn into 100,000 without the politicians involved.......those 100,000 tell one person each it doubles.....you get the picture?....go out in the snow, roll the snowball in the snow......only the snow that comes in direct contact with it, will stick to, and accompany it, the more ya roll it, the bigger it gets....but again, it ONLY grows with direct contact

by marching in washington, your snowball is only coming into direct contact with media, and thats it....I'm doing some really cool, things with my work, and so far.....everyone i have rolled it over has stuck to it, putting it on tv isnt direct contact, unless your content is so great that it captivates peoples attention from the start. Thats almost impossible, when so many before you have ruined the interest in HIV. soley because they all do the same, say the same....a march will only yield results for you, as it has anyone who has marched....and thats a quick pacifier, and it stops there* you want to march in area that everyone else has before you, ask yourself.....will the people of washington see this as just another protest? because if they do, you will fail. You have to look at the whole picture all the time. I can tell you from experience, you will make more progress doing something different, thats effective in each of your communities, than you will putting all the effort into a march, and sure ya can return everyday but who's gonna do that, the media will pull out after one day, theres too much other stuff for them to cover and even then, you dont even get to express your point.


In closing BIG change is actually a whole lot of little changes, that are done consecutively, and consistantly.....starting small yields big results...
Its the future of Hiv Education, and Resources www.aids2hiv.com      Got Community?

Offline Jody

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2007, 08:53:32 PM »
In light of some of the wonderful slogans presented here by Andy and others in response to Lisa's call for a march on Washington- - - While details of a date must be worked out- This year for those who cannot wait, next Spring to coincide with all the presidential primaries nationwide, next Summer when young people are out of school or next Autumn just before the elections, that must be decided...The enthusiasm of Tim (Moffie) and so many others is heartening and crucial as well...Count me in !!!

An idea I thought would be one that might even make the most loyal, patriotic, flag-waving Americans proud (especially if they have been put out of work recently or for quite a while now and have no health care) is a RED, WHITE and BLUE health care card for ALL Americans...The red would be for doctor visits, the white for pharmaceutical coverage as well as dental and optical and the blue specifically for hospitalization...Everyone would get a card and have a PIN number which they could change by phone or internet in the event of loss of such card.  The logistics of how already insured working Americans would be part of it still would have to be worked out but it could be a style similar to Canada's and Europe's so NO American would ever be without, have to live in desparate fear of illness or go broke from limits on insurance coverage, being turned down for care or a prolonged illness not covered entirely by the board of directors of care providers and insurance companies.
 
I would inform my union shop steward when the details were worked out- I am a member of CWA- Communications Workers of America and some co-workers are in DC37- a major union and political force.

Keep on truckin'

Jody
"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world".
 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline AIDS2HIV

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2007, 08:59:46 PM »
Quote
And doctors started listening to and monitoring patients why?  Because of the sign painting and bitching that you were maligning above.

nope, they started listening, because the people, not the politicians wanted answers, answers no one at that time could give, had nothing to do with protests or signs, or people bitching. I had to do with death, history will repeat itself, in the fact that many more of will have to die, before substantial progress is made. If you call the last 25 yrs progress, you are blinded by thier bullshit. the mortality rate hasnt changed in over 10 years....and yeah, lets factor in the "progress" with medicines, once the pharma realized they were being backed by the politicians to make some fat cash, THATS when the meds came about. and if you call 2.9 million deaths a year, even with meds, progress....well then its no wonder HIV is where its at, presently.

Its the future of Hiv Education, and Resources www.aids2hiv.com      Got Community?

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2007, 10:21:55 PM »
WOW Jody!
I wish I knew how/could move a post, because what you just said was really profound!
Maybe we can get one of the admins to give it  it's own place, because I think others need to read it too, as a stand alone subject. WOW again.
What a great idea.
What a great start.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2007, 10:35:10 PM »
nope, they started listening, because the people, not the politicians wanted answers, answers no one at that time could give, had nothing to do with protests or signs, or people bitching. I had to do with death, history will repeat itself, in the fact that many more of will have to die, before substantial progress is made. If you call the last 25 yrs progress, you are blinded by thier bullshit. the mortality rate hasnt changed in over 10 years....and yeah, lets factor in the "progress" with medicines, once the pharma realized they were being backed by the politicians to make some fat cash, THATS when the meds came about. and if you call 2.9 million deaths a year, even with meds, progress....well then its no wonder HIV is where its at, presently.




Is this tone indicative of what is presented through your snowballing AIDS education program?  Just curious. 


And, for the record:  You are saying that ACT UP, people like Larry Kramer etc (carefully working to avoid bringing others out by name here from the forums) had nothing to do with that early progress?  But you said things happened ''because the people, not the politicians, wanted answers".  Weren't they...and aren't we now an example of ''the people'' screaming for answers? 

Oh, wait...that's right.  There hasn't been any progress at all ...I'm blinded by ''their bullshit'' for thinking so.  And I guess you are right:  marches and speeches in Washington never amount to anything.  What was Martin Luther King thinking?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2007, 10:51:21 PM »
We've got better things to talk about Tim...like you providing the link to Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon's website. He presented his plan for universal health care in the Senate this week and it is a doozy. A must read and a starting point for all of us. I am a computer retard so help an ol' gal out, google Ron Wyden and take it from there. I proclaim from this point forward this thread contains no naysaying!!

Sammers says he loves Tim!!

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2007, 11:34:41 PM »
In light of some of the wonderful slogans presented here by Andy and others in response to Lisa's call for a march on Washington- - - While details of a date must be worked out- This year for those who cannot wait, next Spring to coincide with all the presidential primaries nationwide, next Summer when young people are out of school or next Autumn just before the elections, that must be decided...The enthusiasm of Tim (Moffie) and so many others is heartening and crucial as well...Count me in !!!

An idea I thought would be one that might even make the most loyal, patriotic, flag-waving Americans proud (especially if they have been put out of work recently or for quite a while now and have no health care) is a RED, WHITE and BLUE health care card for ALL Americans...The red would be for doctor visits, the white for pharmaceutical coverage as well as dental and optical and the blue specifically for hospitalization...Everyone would get a card and have a PIN number which they could change by phone or internet in the event of loss of such card.  The logistics of how already insured working Americans would be part of it still would have to be worked out but it could be a style similar to Canada's and Europe's so NO American would ever be without, have to live in desparate fear of illness or go broke from limits on insurance coverage, being turned down for care or a prolonged illness not covered entirely by the board of directors of care providers and insurance companies.
 
I would inform my union shop steward when the details were worked out- I am a member of CWA- Communications Workers of America and some co-workers are in DC37- a major union and political force.

Keep on truckin'

Jody

Hey Jody,   

A clever and creative idea.   Americans love our plastic!   I like this idea, but I don't see how it was rolled into the topic.   Maybe, I missed something?   How would the card be presented or incorporated into a March?

I love your idea for our debate on a Proposal for Universal healthcare under another thread.    Would be a Hell of a campaign gimic.

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2007, 11:03:09 AM »
Tim loves his Auntie and Sammers, too!


Here's the link you asked for:


http://wyden.senate.gov/

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline AIDS2HIV

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2007, 02:42:51 PM »
you know something moffie,how old are you? and you cry like this? For 2 years i have sat back and and respected people for being people. I have watched your leader sell everyone of you out...to POZ magazine. For your information, my site...people get banned for slamming aidsmeds,or any other forum community. The problem here is the norm for AM, its this way or no way. Lets throw the hate cards, the gay cards, whatever cards ya want.

Fact is, aidsmeds, isnt abouts aids or meds, its only about gay issues, gay dramas, and gay politics. It didnt start this way, in fact it started at the body, when tim horn and staley were there, you,moffie, as well....you couldnt turn it into a gay site, so here ya are. You run off all that are actually IMPACTING people, Loreen, John, Trish....and why? because they stated something you didnt agree with? CRY ME A RIVER.

To POZ magazine: Are you ready for what these now contracted associates of yours, are about to put you in? Are you ready to answer up for the Origin of Drama Queens to be linked with POZ magazines, new addition...the POZ forums? The leader of the brigade also happens to be one who willfully and knowingly allows the of illegal drug distribution ring that goes on here. You guys give HIV a bad name. I cant wait to see this media circus, drawing attention to your illegal activities, that cant be hidden, because once posted, they copy to every server database through which they travel.

I simply offered you guys some insight in territory you want to tread, but yet havent.....by someone who has been traveling it. <maybe thats what burns your ass, because someone else is doing more then you are able to. Hell i could care less, if i was impressed with this site I would have made it home. I have watched the selfish inmature crybabies here, run off people who solely addressed HIV, but because they wanted you to remove your gay politics from HIV, ya ban them, ya time em out. LOL my site is actually opposite, we talk about HIV, and what we are doing in real lives,real communities...in fact Ric wilke was banned for bringing his gay politcal parade there. Label me homophobic, those who know me, know differently. It's just the bunch that has stagnated here, that give the rest of em a bad name. Those who act like the world owes them something, owe I'm gay, you hurt my little feelings. Youre homophobic, because you told me the truth about me....blah blah blah. Get over yourselves, before you even attempt to win over others.

i suppose i could stoop to your levels, and post the things said about you guys here, by your own. But i wont, I will say this, even the more respected here, don't like it here. They just too damned afraid to say something, because it will be the same result with them,as it has been with everyone else who told you how they felt and ya cant blame em, you guys act like 3 yr olds here. Even the most respected here, have expressed interest in what I am doing at my site. LOL

Thunter: this thread is the perfect example of what you guys are TRUELY about here at aidsmeds. You were all agreeable,and chummy with my post....until you realized you werent gonna get my ideas,my plans,my achievements* You guys cant get past your own issues of "self" yet you want to tackle something this big?LMFAO.

your 15 mins of fame is not what you are remembered for. You will be remebered for the investigation it launched into the originators of that march....POZ magazine. Read thier terms, everything you type here, becomes thier property to do with you as THEY wish, will they take the fall for you though? There's a right way, and a wrong way to go about things, and you guys just cant handle someone telling you you are going about it wrong. and THAT action speaks loud and clear...this is no HIV march, its geared,fueled,and formulated by gay rights activists, not HIV actvists. HIV activists address HIV issues only, first and foremost.

someday even you shallow followers will see the true colors of your "leaders" here at AM. they sold out TheBody, not because of HIV, because they couldnt get thier own childish way there. Go over there and read it, its still over there. then thier "commitment" became aidsmeds, they built it up, with the sole intentions of selling it out to POZ magazine. Notice who got hired,and who got say in who was hired? Your fearless leader themselves. Have they expressed any type of appreciation or gratitude to any of you? Has anyone recieved compensation for thier input here....theres 3,000 plus here, how many are making money of majority? You all are blind. and just like any other commitment, horn,staley, and valez has made in the past....this too is only temporary. HIV does two things, two things which oneself can actually control (1) it opens your mind to reality or (2) it closes the mind to reality. and Im not the only one who will say, the minds here are closed when it comes to HIV, open when it comes to GAY....both 3 letter words, different letters.

You can say what ya want about me, personally i could give a rats ass what anyone thinks. Put me on the sacred grill and roast me til im crispy, none of ya "know" me. and doing so....well it just proves me right.  Ban me, for being "homophobic", or presenting the truth in your face,or having my own opinion. this shows that AGAIN, the level of decrimination that truely exists and goes on here. just another thing POZ will someday have to answer up for. next time, choose a little more carefully whom you choose to personally attack, as this one wont take it lying down, he will make you own up to your actions*

and you can thank moffie,and Thunter for what comes of this attack* perhaps the day of making sure your brains are loaded before shooting your mouth off, has arrived.




Its the future of Hiv Education, and Resources www.aids2hiv.com      Got Community?

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2007, 03:11:35 PM »
Yipes!  I wish I had the time to read all of this right now, but I have to get out for just a bit.  Can't wait til later....It reads like this guy is really angry with me.  I don't quite get why just yet.  Oh, well.

Good reading for me later. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2007, 03:15:59 PM »
To ALL....

If there is even a smidgen of truth the the above post, I will respectfully bow out and leave the planning of this event to others.  I will NOT stand in the way of progress.

In my own defense.  

I have been an HIV/AIDS activist for 25 years in some connection or another.
I continue to work LOCALLY and nationally with HIV/AIDS issues.
I have developed several Educational presentations for many types of audiences from children, to adults, to retirees.
I have a Certificate in Education from San Francisco City College.
I have been a public speaker and writer since childhood.

Oh hell, what is the purpose,
I quit.
I will not be the leverage for some asshole from God knows where, so my presence is certainly not needed here anymore.

Please go to AIDS2HIV and view the site, it is a true mess and a shame to HIV work.  

I'm done!
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2007, 03:33:23 PM »
I'm not gay.  Full response to his State of The Union address to follow when I compose myself some.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2007, 03:39:44 PM »
Well...

Are you feeling better after that little temper tantrum of yours?  

I don't even know where to start, really, and am really a bit too befuddled by your missive to formulate any sort of logical responses.

However, I should point out that neither Peter or I have had anything to do with TheBody.com.  Too bad, I guess, because it sounds as if the sinister homosexual agenda that "couldn't turn it into a gay site" could have used our help!

And don't think for a second that POZ doesn't love its association with flaming Peter, Andy, and myself.  We've started a FABULOUS pool at the office, collecting bets on what you're going to be wearing to the Oscars for that Academy Award-winning performance.  I say Valentino; Peter and Andy are betting on the Chanel. 

Kisses,

Tim Horn

Edited to say that I'm heartily encouraging you to go back to your gay agenda-free, protest free, ACT-UP free, drug recycling program-free, and -- most importantly -- AIDSmeds-free website.  In all honesty, it sounds as if you're so busy fighting what AIDS isn't, that you haven't quite figured out to fight what it is. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 03:55:07 PM by Tim Horn »

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2007, 03:39:54 PM »
A2H
I do not know why you felt so strongly that you had to come here and make such a monumental effort to strike down the people who are trying to make an effort to afford positive change.
Why did you find it so irresistible to come and berate the very people who forged the way for you and I.
I am really hurt by your verbal assault.
If you do not wish to contribute in a positive manner, then please do not continue to post with this venom here.
No one asked you to step in here and be our moral police force.
I respect your opinions up to the point that you made this a forum to denigrate the very people who made this place a home for me.
If you want to help, please give us an outline of the educational process you have described.
I won't rise to answer the baiting comments you have made, but I know I have never done anything to you that would invite this diatribe.
I am at a loss right now, and will go outside for awhile.
I am very sad at this moment.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2007, 03:53:26 PM »
See... all I'm hearing right now are those cricket sounds...
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline woodshere

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2007, 03:54:42 PM »
I am so tired of this crap!  First off Moffie, from what I can tell there was only one person on here that said anything negative in regards to you, everyone else is very supportive.  So why all the drama.  I think AIDS2HIV made some valid pts in his first post, last one was really not necessary.  Except I do have to agree with him on one thing and that being that it seems when something gets rolling in one direction and then a post goes up that expresses a different view everyone gets all bent out of shape.  Someone starts attacking and then before you know it the slams have become so nasty and immature the thread is locked or several warnings are issued to tone it down. (I don't think examples are needed, but just in case and forgive me if the titles aren't quite right...."Health care is a right" thread, several of the "I'm poz, I don't care fuck me" threads,  "Angered to tears" thread and those are just in the past week .)  Everyone needs to get real and concentrate on the topic at hand.  Also, I see nothing wrong with dissenting opinions.  I will agree that some opinions are ludicrous, but don't attack the messenger, just the message.  No group needs to be 100% agreeable on every issue and just because we are all HIV+ doesn't mean we all will agree.  

If you are serious about something like this, then you best be ready for lots of naysayers, with the positive  :) reasons it will work and is needed.  Finally, maybe someone who has a different view, might actually add something to the idea.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Woods

EDITED:  Of course I don't know all the baggage that obviously is between H2A and others.  But I stand by my post in regards to respecting dissenting opinions.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 03:59:39 PM by woodshere »
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2007, 04:12:01 PM »
1st off, I dont think anyone sold anyone here.  im not paying to be here.  I am not owned by this site or even defined by it.  Those who were running AIDSMEDS aligned themselves with a natural ally and consolodated to media avenues into a more seamless one.  We are not slaves to be sold, we are here of our own free will as are YOU.

2nd.  The gay issues.  ARE YOU HIGH?  This site is about so much MORE than that. Hell this very thread has 5 or 6 different people from strikingly DIFFERENT backgrounds talking about HIV and healthcare.  There's no GAY in this.  You come off strikingly homophobic even while playing the even my friends know im not card (better known as the "My best friend is gay" card).  I dont know of the drama of Loreen, John and Trish, I was just beginning to know them.  But it really also doesnt matter.  We are talking about a new idea here, not old ones.  You had an idea once.  Anyone piss on your parade while you were getting ready for it?  It happens.  Thats not the issue either.

3rd.  Illegal drug activities.  Christ you make it sound like we are dealing HEROIN! (Note to the DEA, We are NOT dealing Mr. Brownstone!)  If you have ever given someone you know and love an asprin you are in effect playing Dr and can be held legally liable for thier health at that point if something goes wrong.  Please dont bring that kind of stuff to this site, someone on this forum has a big heart and the ability to help those of us that come up short.  UNLIKE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.  Which again is why we are doing what we are doing!  And as how it plays in the media, do you NOT think that I for one would be unable to spin it as an us against the system fucking MEDIA STORM?!?!?!  Don't underestimate the power of the will of the people.  It didnt work out so well for the British back in the 1770's if you recall.

4th.  You didnt offer insight.  You said, and im paraphrasing, "Dont do what you plan on doing its a stupid and inefficient idea.  DO WHAT I DO.  Its much better than what you morons are putting together."  This is basically what you said, and if not its how it came out.  Then Thunt asks you for ideas on how you did your thing and you get STINGY?  Tell us to do what you do and then not tell us what or how you do it, does that make ANY SENSE? No.  Nobody owes me shit.  My family is in the upper 2% of the population of the world as far as economics go and I realize and appreciate HUMBLY everything I have.  And I came from nothing.  My grandfather and father came from nothing.  So dont label me or anyone else on here as people who feel they are OWED something.  I give my gay bretheren in arms this fact, they should be able to enjoy ALL the rights of everyone else goddamnit, let them marry. They are OWED this by the very constitution of this country!

5th. I will not attempt to demean your site as I have not been there, yet.  I shall check it out now that I have entered into a "dialogue" with you.  But dont confuse peoples "interest in your site" as an all out approval of what you have to say regarding this thread and what we are trying to do.  It doesnt correlate.

6th. If you cared about your cause why WOULDNT you share it?  Get down off the soapbox for a minute and join in and try to implement and add to the conversation rather than say "you idots dont know what you are doing, do what I do!".  Take your OWN advice and try to touch someone on here and see if that voice doubles.

7th.  There is no GAY activist stuff in what we are talking about.  Lisa isnt gay as far as I know.  I'm not (dont laugh here guys) gay.  This is about HEALTH and HIV not gay rights.  Again you come off homophobic.  We arent seeking 15 minutes of fame.  We are seeking a National Surge in action and attention to a VERY hot topic right now.  Healthcare!  If you watch the news you might know that.

8th. You keep referring to the selling out.  So I will keep referring to the 1770's.  There were a few gentleman back then that didnt agree with the status quo, they decided to "SELL OUT" and become their own country.  If I recall this worked out fairly well for them.  They came up with a pretty nifty country you now call home.  It is THAT country and their ideals I believe are being held up by this forum and by this planned march.  They didnt sit idly by.  They chose action.  And I'm not talking about "telling your neighbor to tell his neighbor to fuck the british" im talking about GLOBAL action.  The French were brought in, the British were obviously involved Mexico half got the shaft all because a few guys didnt like to get taxed for no reason.  If they tried one person at a time we'd be drinking tea and eating crumpets singing GOD SAVE THE QUEEN right about now!

9th.  Who cares who makes the money on this site.  Its not what its about.  I didnt come here as some sort of AMWAY scam looking to pad my retirement accounts!  I came here for support and ideas and I've found that time and again.   I dont think anyone's mind is closed to HIV are you KIDDING me.  Have you read the heart wrenching posts of those who have lost friends or are fighting depression and isolation?  Forget about minds, is your heart closed?  People deal with HIV everyday here in VERY real ways.  There is also a distraction this forum provides and that I feel is probably the MOST beneficial part of it.  I can make fun of, talk about, laugh about, cry about HIV and not have to think about who is reading or listening to me.  Im not worried about if im making someone (like a family member) uncomfortable when I tell them what im going through.  They listen here, they inspire here, they support here.  Get over the gay stuff man, its distracting.


Finally, Ive got nothing against you.  I dont know you.  I havent made it a priority TO know you.  I cant for everyone on this board.  Here's your chance.  There is going to be a TON of attention for awhile on this thread.  Show who you are.  Are you committed to HIV and Healthcare?  Share your ways.  Inspire others.  Thats what leaders do.  They cause a ripple effect that grows exponentially upon itself until it is sustained by its very existence.  Is that you?

ACinKC OUT!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 04:32:17 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2007, 04:20:01 PM »
By the way.  There wasnt a negative response to A2H until post 37.  We pretty much said thanks but no thanks to his ideas.  He came back in pounding his chest about how his way is the only way and that we were stupid for thinking anything else.

So woods, we looked at his opinions, didnt want to implement them, which is the right of the group and he got pissed because of it. 

Why does he keep coming back is what I ask myself.  If I walk into a group meeting throw some ideas at them and nothing sticks or its WAY against what I think should be done I wouldnt STAY and then try to convince everyone of my way.  Hell, that would be like a Muslim walking into one of those Christian Focus on the Family 100,000 member gatherings and saying "ummm SCUSE ME, you all are going to hell.  How about I tell you why!"  It just makes no sense.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,954
Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2007, 04:22:16 PM »
I will gladly sell my soul to Satan, Poz Magazine, The Body.com or any other entity if it results in health care coverage for all. That is the focus, and I hope that is the goal. Everybody get your chips off your shoulders...there is plenty of room for everyone to jump on the HIV bandwagon. For once can we try and put personalities aside? This is already becoming a thread that is veering away from the topic at hand. Lisa listen to me...I know you get easily distracted by shiny objects  ;Dbut you dear fearless leader must not become distracted by those who continue to beat that dead horse. Some find it very difficult to let go of the past or old lovers. Moff, sorry friend but you are way too old to act like a baby  ;Dso shut up, you are back in the game and there is nothing you can do about it. Don't make me come over there!  ;)

So where were we...if I remember correctly, and shut out all the white noise, we were about to plan our million aids march. Let us leave that other nonsense alone and get on with it.

My biggest priority is figuring out a way to get Poz.com to license my Sam's likeness. How does wieners without HIV sound....too gay?


p.s. my emoticons didn't work, but you know what I mean ;D
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 04:26:46 PM by Dachshund »

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2007, 04:28:24 PM »
<---Tucks his tail and apologizes proFUSELY for veering toward yet another shiny object!!!!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
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  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2007, 05:48:53 PM »
Woodshere,  Quote:Of course I don't know all the baggage that obviously is between H2A and others.  But I stand by my post in regards to respecting dissenting opinions.

I respect your dissenting view of my decision to leave this conversation, however; if you don't know the background of the above poster, please don't slap my hand and tell me I need to listen to his very negative crap!

For the rest;

I have had some time to think about my very rapid decision to leave this conversation/movement, and at the same time, had a  very nice chat with the Chair of the Board, along with a really nice lady on the Rock; and for the following, I will not leave.

This decision had absolutely nothing at all to do with what is called here, way too often.....DRAMA and everything to do with self preservation.  Lately I have been very distraught over my inability to deal with the internet and nasty people.  Hear me out!  If I were in a conference room and having a good planning meeting for such an event as this, and the people present were having a nice brainstorm and then a nasty hateful person, as above, were to enter the room and start telling us all that everything we were doing would come to no good, and the only way that anything would work is to do it their way;  guess what, I would send them from the room in great haste, without saying a word to them.. I DO NOT have to listen to all comers, and all that everyone has to say.  That is the difference between real experience and bullshit. 

On top of that, while reading his spew, I had to go to the bathroom twice and get rid of plenty of my own spew, but mine was a bit more organic.

See, when we forget that MANY of the readers on this site are having huge health problems and many are actually struggling to stay alive with HIV coursing throughout their bodies; why is it that I or anyone else here MUST tolerate bullshit that the giver of same shit would not tolerate for one second in their lives?  Please .......   anyone........ please tell me why I must put up with that...... Please tell me     .....  Please....

For that reason, and also for the reason that a very good friend of mine, Lisa, requested; I will not leave, as I feel like my experience and my talents are needed here and for my good health and the betterment of my own CD4 cells, I will continue to remain active here and donate all the time that I can afford without jeopardizing my own health. 

I am sorry for causing any grief here, and Lisa, I did it!  And yes Ann, I did it without the flame growing beyond the pilot light.  Well, at least I think I did.

I remain,
Tim..../M
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline ACinKC

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  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2007, 05:55:00 PM »
See, when we forget that MANY of the readers on this site are having huge health problems and many are actually struggling to stay alive with HIV coursing throughout their bodies; why is it that I or anyone else here MUST tolerate bullshit that the giver of same shit would not tolerate for one second in their lives?  Please .......   anyone........ please tell me why I must put up with that...... Please tell me     .....  Please....

<--raising his hand like a little boy who doesnt quite want to tell the teacher what he thinks but gives the answer anyway....

Cause thats life man.  Thats why.  If you want something done that isnt easy to do in the first place (if anyone knows this its you) you are going to have issues.  This is just the first one.  Next time someone gets you that riled up, just point at me and say "YOU handle them".  That way you can stay on task and focus on what needs to be done instead of the bullshit.  Which I happen to be excellent at recycling and putting to good use!!!  Im here for ya!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline thunter34

  • Member
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  • His name is Carl.
Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2007, 05:56:11 PM »
Wow.  I am still trying to figure out how I managed to get pegged as one of the chief names involved in some ensuing investigation of AM and POZ or whatever.  I'm looking back through all of posts on this topic, and I am trying to see how what I posted was such an ''attack'' on anyone...let alone how I have been instrumental in the demise of AM or whatever.  Truthfully, there were just enough spelling and grammar errors in the epic post I am referencing that I was not completely able to follow all of the, um....logic of it.  Oh, and that  * that kept popping up over and over...I kept looking for a footnote or further clarification to come along with those and never saw one.  I still don't know quite what all of that is about.*  

Anyway, when I look back at my posts to A2H, all I see is that I said, "If you don't think this we are talking about is a viable way to go, can you further illustrate for me what it is you have in mind?"  Isn't that what I did?  Of course, that illustration never came.  If that is what he means by me being chummy, then yes I was.  I said at the beginning of this thread that I am someone who does not have experience in large-scale activism efforts...at least not in the HIV realm.  I have some experience working for advocacy for people with developmental disabilities.  I wasn't trying to ''get'' your plans, your acheivements etc.  I was only asking to be shown what your plan was out of a possible interest in what you had in mind.  I am gay, yes.  I am not trying to force any ''gay agenda'' with regards to HIV.  I am admittedly seeing a connection between healthcare for those with HIV and healthcare for our nation as a whole.  Guilty as charged on that one.

And this ''illegal drug ring'' you mentioned...I was completely thrown by that one- until I realized you might be referring to the meds sharing thing.  Well, to that I will go on record (in files that will surely be stored forever far and wide, as you say)  that YES, I fully support that happening if it needs to happen.  If that ever meant me being sent to jail, I suppose I would lock myself in the cell...and sleep like a baby for it.  File Under:  Civil Disobedience on that one.  I will opt for doing what I know is right in my heart over what is necessarily legal.  If it means helping to keep someone alive, put me in the slammer.  It is this collapsing health system that forces people like us to take steps like that.  It is that system that will set these feet stepping toward Washington.

That's all I have for this nonsense for now.

*A footnote like this one...see?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2007, 06:01:56 PM »

To POZ magazine: Are you ready for what these now contracted associates of yours, are about to put you in? Are you ready to answer up for the Origin of Drama Queens to be linked with POZ magazines, new addition...the POZ forums? The leader of the brigade also happens to be one who willfully and knowingly allows the of illegal drug distribution ring that goes on here. You guys give HIV a bad name. I cant wait to see this media circus, drawing attention to your illegal activities, that cant be hidden, because once posted, they copy to every server database through which they travel.



Well, they don't call me Don Alfonso de Colombo for nothing....

Lisa... if does, in fact, turn out that my Atripla isn't working... I am giving you whatever meds I have left over to give to someone who needs them.  Is that OK? 
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2007, 06:02:27 PM »
AIDS2, as arrogant and dismissive as you have been in some recent entries, this latest diatribe really takes some kind of bad news prize.

While seeming to imagine you have cornered the market on knowledge about the epidemic and how to handle it, you are treating others here as some kind of lower beings.

Frankly, it's inexcusable and as far as I am concerned it stops right here and now. You're entitled to express your opinion and your thoughts. But, you're not allowed to abuse people.

You need a rest from here and so do the others from your mistreatment. I'm giving you a one week time out starting right now.

  
Andy Velez

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2007, 06:04:18 PM »



That ISNT gloating.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2007, 06:12:57 PM »
There are a couple of things I take umbrage with a) I resent not being listed as the origin of the drama queen. b) If we give HIV a bad name, who in the hell gives it a good one?

I nominate Tim for Minister of Propaganda

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2007, 06:15:35 PM »
Andrew,

Thanks for answering my question, and at the same time, volunteering to help me not to have to accept such BS.  I doubt if you even comprehend how nice and helpful your post was.  I will remember it forever.  Thanks so very much...  You - da - man!!

Tim,

For a bit of clarification on the DRUG RING, we have been recycling drugs here in the southwest for years now.  The only person in the chain that is breaking the law, and we got this from an unnamed State Attorney General, is the person that the drugs were prescribed to.  All the others in the chain are faultless under the law.  So, when anyone from the "other" website comes up short on their meds and they need to have drugs immediately or loose their adherence; well, I guess they will have to create their own Illegal Drug Ring to accommodate their need.  OR, we could be really magnanimous HIV activists and try to keep them alive with some of ours.    HMM time will tell won't it?

Thanks for being there guys and for the friendly and well aimed "Bitch Slap" Andrew.  I gotta say only one thing, I guess I needed that!

In Respect
Tim../M
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2007, 06:16:24 PM »
If we give HIV a bad name, who in the hell gives it a good one?


Wow... that is an excellent, excellent point.

And I second that nomination.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2007, 06:17:21 PM »
Well, they don't call me Don Alfonso de Colombo for nothing....

Lisa... if does, in fact, turn out that my Atripla isn't working... I am giving you whatever meds I have left over to give to someone who needs them.  Is that OK? 


Ooooh!  I'm T E L L I N G ...!!!
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2007, 06:25:30 PM »

Ooooh!  I'm T E L L I N G ...!!!

Looks like I'm doin' five to ten in the state pen...

I am so gonna be somebody's fine ass bitch...

"Your Honor, I plead guilty to helping someone get medication in an emergency in the first degree.  I know that's on par with heroin trafficking and I've just made everyone with HIV look like Bobby Brown... I am so, so sorry... I hang my head in shame."
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2007, 06:49:53 PM »
I really apologise. I do. For going away.

But I could not endure the negative stress any longer.

I appreciate that I have been asked back for this important event, and will certainly do what (and whom) I can to help.

But see, I’ve been sick. For a while now. With PCP, which, I am discovering, is not cured outright by the meds. It will take months for me to recover, if indeed I do at all. As it stands, I lack the physical strength or the emotional stability to endure or ignore the flame-baiting that drove me from here.

I did not want to go. I had to. I was spending huge amounts of emotional energy combating what I saw as complacency and bullying on these forums. I was getting seriously invested in fabrications made to me, and about me. It was hurting my health – health I did not have to spare.

I went away because my eyes were opened in Montreal, to the good or bad that lives in people, and the real motivation behind much of the drama online. I learned a lot, and intend to retain that education. It was one of the most, if not THE most enlightening experiences of my adult life. And I mean that in the good way AND the bad way.

There are heroes on this site, who are struggling to do good amidst a sea of denial and apathy. Lisa is one.  Her personal life, if you have not followed it as expressed here in threads, has been an F-4 tornado for months now. Family issues, death, and of course her own precarious health should have totally sidelined her. Would have killed many of us. Sure would have killed me.

But not only does she post words of encouragement here, but she also continues with the med sharing program which she started, to which I have eagerly contributed without a shred of guilt. Only reason I have stopped is that I have actually started TAKING those meds again. So for the moment, no extras. And now, she wants to do THIS? Holy crap. With what she’s been through, I’m shocked she spends a single moment sober, much less productive.

That ANYONE would choose to disparage that is unconscionable.

And the saddest thing is, AIDS2HIV had some valid points, but they were lost in the personal attacks. Want to start a thread about how Tim and Andy and Peter are whores to the system? By all means. But this was not the place. Want to start a thread about how Lisa’s underground railroad of these hideously expensive meds is wrong? By all means, start it.

Strawman arguments and personal attacks, along with off-topic and insulting posts do two things. They derail the original discussion entirely (which is usually the intention) and they cause people who do not have the intestinal fortitude to defend themselves or others to leave the forums.

I freely admit I don’t have the fortitude. Not now, maybe not anymore. I sleep maybe three hours at a stretch. I type more stuff from the bathroom than the desk.  Night sweats and a seemingly constant fever keep me teetering between exhaustion and despair more often than I like to admit. And the meds I am taking to treat these issues are also causing them.

I'm not bitching. Well I am a little. But I enjoyed YEARS of terrific health even after my diagnosis. It's taken a LONG time for AIDS to find me. But it did. And now the only battles I have the energy to fight (and thats debatable) are the ones in my body, in the nasty pills I am taking, and in my own heart.

I am really sorry, but I can’t come back, even for this, not now, and not here. Whatever Lisa has that burns so brightly, I lost somehow. And until/unless I get it back, this is a toxic environment for me.

Ironic that the stuff I did in the reliably batshit AM I INFECTED forum caused me no negative stress at all, and was uplifting and purposeful. Sadly, for me, it was the support forums in which I faltered, which cost me nights of sleep I still dearly miss.

My best friend thought I was an idiot for canceling my food pantry participation, even though I had not had the energy to drive into town for weeks to pick up my bag. Thing is, half the foodstuff was well past it’s expiration date. And probably NOT a big deal to impoverished people, or otherwise healthy senior citizens. But with a 49 CD4 count and PCP? I would be an idiot to take that risk. Healthwise, I know I am at the point where it will take one more good deep push to take me out.

Those pushes can come in an otherwise well-intentioned bag of packaged goods. They can also come in a well-researched, beautifully put together online forum that for many reasons, became toxic to me. It wasn’t like presenting my research to validate points in an adult debate. It was getting beaten up on the schoolyard. It was seeing other people beaten up, with no one seemingly doing anything about it. And I notice that the sicker I get, the less able I am to fend off or ignore or avoid the flaming.

I’m God’s Perfect flame-bait, because I feel compelled to defend people, including myself. You can’t do that on an internet forum. And my skin is thinner now than ever. Is that just because I got sick? Or has HIV eaten enough holes in my brain to mess me up permanently? Only an autopsy will determine that, and I’m not ready for that procedure.

Lisa, I applaud your initiative. And I think BOTH measures will work. Both the individual making a personal and profound impact in his/her community (even an online community) AND the media-friendly gathering of thousands to protest. As a matter of fact, I think that either without the other is far less effective.

I am tired. And perhaps I am angry. Maybe I’m also a little nuts. I just can’t handle the personal attacks, the hurtful accusations and fabrications, and the bullying. And I know, I KNOW it constitutes a TINY fraction of  the online forums. But for a guy who can be murdered by a single piece of bad sushi, that’s enough.

I wish I had more of that moxie that makes you endure so much. And I am not just talking to Lisa here.

I am writing this from my bed. Maybe in a few hours I will stroll to the futon and watch TV. As it stands, such is my world. I can’t risk coming back to this place now, and I apologise for that weakness.

Please feel free to email me – my email addy should be in my profile. In order to respond to PMs, and need to log in. And I am simply too afraid to do that.

Have the assholes won? Battles, maybe. But not the war. Because the war is against this virus, and any beurocracy that stands between anyone and the best treatment there is. Moffie spoke wisely when he mentioned that there will come a time when those who criticize the drug sharing program will need it, or know someone who needs it, someday.

And when that moment comes, I hope we will be strong enough not to gloat, but to offer the same hand in compassion we offer the homophobe who turns to a gay-friendly ASO when s/he tests positive.

I know Lisa will do that. She's an angel. Me? Cherub, on my best of days


 
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2007, 06:53:44 PM »
OUR CHERUB IS HERE !!!


Hey, baby !  I haven't even read your post yet, but I had to publicly post hey!


(I'm coming your way tomorrow!)


EDITIED TO SAY: Read.  Look for email, J.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 07:02:57 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2007, 05:58:48 AM »
 ;)

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2007, 09:06:27 AM »
Jonathan love,
You never need to apologize. Ever. I know you have been sick, I just wasn't sure how sick. I guess I thought something like this would get your juices flowing, and maybe take your mind off of feeling quite so awful. Your advice would be so valuable here because of all the work you've done in this arena, but I understand perfectly what you were saying, and I am praying for T-cells to start doing a conga line into your bloodstream. I love you so very much, and all I want is for you to feel better. You just do whatever you have to do, and we will be thinking of you as we progress through this. Drop in from time to time if you can, and we'll keep the wolves away.
All my love to you friend. :-*
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline woodshere

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2007, 10:51:25 AM »
This thread started on Monday and I was very skeptical of how it would work, however with all the positive/+ energy anything is possible.  There is a definite need for something to be done and as that old campfire song says, It only takes a spark to get a fire going.

I just printed this entire thread (45pages to be exact) and have reread every post.  Wow, what great ideas and enthusiasm, minus a few posts, my first one included.  I do have a question and please don't think it stupid, But what is the purpose of this marching?”  In looking over the thread there seems to be 2 lines of thinking.  One is to raise awareness of HIV/AIDS and bring change within the healthcare system to help those who are HIV+ or have received an AIDS diagnosis.  The second purpose I see is to bring about change in the American healthcare system for everyone.  The two purposes are similar, but also very different.  If the purpose is only HIV/AIDS then I think the effort is off to a great start.  If the purpose is truly the second, changing the healthcare system, then slowing down might be needed.   I think in order to gain attention for changing the healthcare system for everyone the name would have to be changed.  Across Middle America, like it or not, the title of “MillionAIDSmarch” would be perceived as a gay march (of course we all know it isn't) and the message would be lost.  In Andy’s post, #17, he mentioned “HIV/AIDS activists hope to engage unions and other health-concerned groups among others to join in our demand for an end to this broken system.”  At least a few of those groups need to be involved in the planning from the get go.  Finally, if the true purpose is changing the healthcare system, then “we” as in those in the HIV/AIDS community must be willing to allow others into the planning process early and not worry about who gets credit for getting the ball rolling.

Also, is Washington the best place to have this kind of march?  Think about it.  There have been 100’s of marches and gatherings on The Mall, but how many do you remember or truly led to something greater.  I think most Americans remember the Civil Rights March in ’63 and MLK’s “I Have a Dream Speech”, those marches that called for an end to the Vietnam War and some might remember the marches where The Names Project Quilt was on displayed.  All others get a blip on the national news, but their purposes seem to get lost in the debate between march organizers and the National Parks System over the actual number in attendance.  A week or so ago there was the march to protest the war in Iraq.  It seemed to me what got the most attention was Jane Fonda.  I would also think that one reason to be in DC is the opportunity to meet with Congressman and Senators.  However, between next May and November not many will be in Washington as they will be in the midst of perhaps one of the most fierce campaigns we have seen in decades.  Would any march after Labor Day get lost in campaign coverage? 
I think one of the greatest protest organized by HIV/AIDS group occurred in NYC on Wall Street.  I can remember seeing news segments and someone standing above the crowd with a bull horn and the crowd bringing Wall Street to a halt.  I think that got the attention of the media as well as America and pharmaceutical companies.  Why not schedule a series of rallies and protests all during the same week at the headquarters of insurance and pharmaceutical companies.  The city would be the one with the most headquarters.  Then end the protest with a big weekend march and rally.  And/or have organized committees all over the country to schedule protests and rallies at campaign events of the presidential candidates forcing this to be a campaign issue. There are so many ways to gain attention, why go the way that most have done through the years.

I look forward to where this is going and hope that I can become involved.
Woods
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2007, 12:30:49 PM »
Woods,

GOOD POST MY FRIEND!  I think the purpose of the march is still being defined if im not mistaken.  I agree that an HIV march and a Healthcare march are two totally different animals.  My preference is a Healthcare THEME (as in we want coverage not only for us but for everyone and quit sending it overseas!) with a HIV/AIDS emphasis (as in we are the ones who cared enough to gather here and point this out).  If it is to be a healthcare focus only, I say we would indeed need to slow a hair and consider getting all the other "VIRUSES" involved.  Cancer, diabetes, among others. If it is an HIV march then we are definitely on the right track and Moffie, Thunt and Lisa are lining the ducks up now in an effort to make this happen.

In order to counter the "gay stigma" middlewesterners MAY attach to the march you would want someone like Reagan or Shawn Decker (just cause those are the first two I thought of) out front on the podium.  But of course you would want a spectrum of lifestyles and colors up there to represent what we truly are.  Credit should be given to only those who have come and gone before us.  They are the heroes.  This wont be about one person or a select few, this will be about US.  ALL OF US. 

Good point on the whole washington thing.  Think of what the protesters did in Seattle.  Granted it was a more violent protest so that may have been the main reason it got the attention it did.  Lining the march up with another significant yet COUNTER event may be a good thing.  I can see the Washington DC side of the arguement as well.  You have immediate history there.  I defer on this one as Im not sure there IS a right answer.

What if the march was scheduled to coincide with a big primary in that state!  Iowa for SURE hasnt seen 1 million strong on its streets.  A march across the state straight down I-80 would be sure to garner attention.  Although getting the government to approve that would be impossible!
As far as insurance company protests... how convenient to my previous idea.  Des Moines Iowa is a HUB for the insurance industry.

Glad you are involved Woodsie!  I told you we werent here to pummel other ideas!!!  You make some good points and Im sure others will make some valid counterpoints as they have been doing this far longer than I have (ive been at it all of one week now!!!)

Andrew (who totally would have been either in MLK's inner circle or a Black Panther, depending on how pissed I was, if he was black and growing up in the 60's!)
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Trish

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2007, 01:29:03 PM »
Dear Lisa,

I just wanted to let you know that I admire your commitment and your strength.  I truly hope that you, along with everyone else, succeed in your endeavors.  With all that you've been through recently, I am inspired by your tenacity. 

I just wanted to chime in here to wish you luck, and please know that I am behind you.  And even though I don't post here anymore I do still read from time to time (I do care about ALL of you, no matter what happened in the past.) 

I think what you are doing is commendable and I applaud you and everyone else who is getting involved.  Kudos dear lady and also, cheers to those who are backing you up.

Godspeed and good health to everyone!!

All the best and much love,

Trish :)
"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is buit."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2007, 04:08:03 PM »
Thank you Trish for your kind words of encouragement.
All are welcome to join the fracas. I'm not in it for applause. Frankly I became truly inspired by the talk I heard Jeanne White-Ginder give to the Commerce Club in either San Diego, or LA, I can't remember which. She gave the talk on World Aids Day, but I didn't get to see it until a few weeks ago, on C-span. That was what solidified my resolve, I just took a bit to give it a voice. Coupled with the plans that ACTUP has been working on, and all of the reasons I tried to alliterate in the first post, I just couldn't sit on it anymore. We can make a difference, I believe that.
I hope you are doing well too hon.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #94 on: February 06, 2007, 10:22:49 AM »
Hey!  Where did you guys GO?
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline aztecan

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2007, 11:34:51 AM »
Well, all I can say is, Wow!

I have never been much of a leader, but I am so encouraged by what I see here that I will gladly lend whatever support I can.

Lisa, as you said, with the public's attention now focused on the plight of those in Africa, it is too easy for people to remember there are those right here who are doing without and suffering.

Too many years have passed, too many lives lost, too much misinformation spread for us to take a back seat now.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #96 on: February 06, 2007, 11:54:34 AM »
Glad to have you here Mark!  I see you saw my post in the other thread!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline RAB

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #97 on: February 07, 2007, 04:26:43 PM »
Lisa

I haven't had the chance to read through all the posts in the threads, but I think I've got the big picture.  All I can say is your vision and determination (Buttercup my butt--you're a bundle of TNT just with a good disguise) is truly inspirational. 

I can't do much more right now than lend you moral support, but it's there if you can make use of it.

RAB


Offline Joe K

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #98 on: February 07, 2007, 05:54:57 PM »
I'm not sure if you are going to do an AIDS march or one for Universal Health Care, so why not do both?  Surely there is someone who could design a new logo that includes the AIDS Red Ribbon with some symbol to represent health care for all.  If you do it that way, very few can stand against you, because then you can play the sympathy card for babies or whatever we need to get our message heard.  After 12 years of Republican pablum we know that we need to slap America in the face and what better way to do that than by introducing an inclusive movement to better the health of all Americans.

As for DC, I say skip the whole thing there.  Instead, why not use the Internet to organize armies of supporters, who will wear our new symbol and then at a prearranged time, say noon, we work to bring any and all parts of this country to a standstill, if for nothing more, than to hear our message.  You could still have someone in DC who could be our spokesperson(s) to clarify our message to the country.  But if you want to really affect change, then you need to bring this issue to each and every American and since they do not live in DC, we need to take it where they live.

Imagine closing all the bridges in almost every American city for one-half hour.  With enough of us, the authorities would be fairly powerless to do anything as the "protest" would be there and gone before they even knew what hit them and even if there are arrests, even better to get our voices heard and to show the rest of America how grave the situation really is.  This is a fight we need to win and I believe that all options should remain on the table, with the exception of violence.  We are Americans and we know what moves this country, so let us tap that potential by bringing all the players to the table.

American health care, preventive programs and managing chronic illnesses.  That pretty well covers almost every American alive.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 05:59:00 PM by killfoile »

Offline Ann

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #99 on: February 07, 2007, 06:46:26 PM »
Wow Joe, I really like that idea!

Not just American cities either. As long as we're thinking internet, we may as well think global.

And NO, not World Aids Day.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline woodshere

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #100 on: February 07, 2007, 07:17:42 PM »
I think Joe is on to something.  Think bigger, outside the box, the great thing about early ACT-UP protests is that they had never been done that way before.

Woods
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #101 on: February 07, 2007, 08:47:08 PM »
Joe how very 1968 of you.  I like the peaceful fuck you that would send.  Inconvenience those who take their healthcare for granted like those without it are inconvenienced every day.

This may be something to SERIOUSLY consider!  Our very own little sleeper cells in major cities.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 08:49:44 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Joe K

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #102 on: February 08, 2007, 11:52:00 AM »
I had this idea from watching "The Day The Earth Stood Still".  The movie is rather hokey but caries a very powerful message.  In essence, space man comes to earth and his superior technology is misunderstood and he goes into hiding as he seeks the greatest minds on the planet.  After finding an Einstein type he announces to the world that we must change our ways and that we are free to decimate ourselves, but don't even think of doing that to another planet.  Everybody laughs him off so he schedules a warning demonstration down to the minute.  The next day, precisely at noon, all electricity in the world ceases to work, with the exception of hospitals and other places that provided for the health of humans.  No cars, trains, buses, nothing.  This lasted for five minutes and then everything returned to normal. 

There is more to the movie, but it started me thinking of something "big" that average people could do and I thought given our sheer numbers and if we partner with other chronic illnesses we could present a unified message that pleads for all Americans to have access to health care, that many prevention programs work (especially when you base them on the truth) and that many of us with chronic illnesses need help in providing for own own care.

I believe the founding documents of this country include the right of all Americans to adequate health care.  The insurance, drug and other companies will bitch, but this can be done as long as there is a will.  I have mentioned before that we could establish something like the Federal Reserve for health care.  The Federal Reserve is a separate government entity pretty well immune to the folly of politics, so do the same for health care.

All those companies and such can then become subcontractors to the health care system and if they cannot deliver, then they lose their contract.  But none of the details really matter, because these are the same screams that were heard when they broke up the railroads or AT&T and surprisingly the world did not end.

We need to develop a solid mission statement and given the times, "soundbites".  We can take a page from the old activist playbook and use shock to give America one collective "slap upside the head".

I believe we can create our own day when America stopped and there is no way we will miss any new coverage if we can "blockade" at least 2 cities per state, say the capital and largest city.  We recycled the die ins in the form of cigarette protests where they delivered "body bags" to the tobacco companies.  However, while their message is effective, I do not believe it is the direction that we should follow.

I believe we should be convincing America, by appealing to most Americans based on the issue of fairness and need.  Almost everyone knows someone who does not have insurance and that can be our common bond.  Rather than telling the government what they are not doing, we will tell them what we need and illustrate the reality of many of our lives.

And the more I think about it, I am not so sure we should fully avoid DC.  Imagine the power of 50 or 100,000 on the mall walking toward the capital, bringing our message to our nations leaders?  I also believe that we should label ourselves as "promoters" or something that has a positive tone.  This is our baby, so we get to set the rules.

Think outside of the box indeed.  The way I look at it, either go big or stay home.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 11:56:34 AM by killfoile »

Offline woodshere

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #103 on: February 08, 2007, 12:05:29 PM »
And the more I think about it, I am not so sure we should fully avoid DC.  Imagine the power of 50 or 100,000 on the mall walking toward the capital, bringing our message to our nations leaders?
Nation's leaders look out windows and see 50-100,000 and respond, "Oh another march on Washington....send in the next corporate lobbyist."  The simple fact is a march on Washington, in and of itself, for any cause will do very little to bring change.  Unfortunatly, most elected officials listen to dollars not voices. I am not saying don't have a march, but it must be paired with things that reach the true decision makers, those with the big bucks.  Maybe I am too jaded, but I don't think so.

Woods
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #104 on: February 08, 2007, 12:34:47 PM »
I think this is exactly what Joe is saying woodsie!  To not have Washington DC be the ONLY place to do this but dont IGNORE it either.

 The Day America Stands Still!!!! 

Now THAT is a great little slogan not too mention a great title if we sell the movie rights!!!

If we do the "sleeper cell" idea as I am calling it, we would need to keep the locations off the national radar.  Dont want some gentlemen in uniform there to greet us ahead of time!  I good way to do that is a viral txt message of the exact locations just prior to the event.  You could narrow it down to city and state but you wouldn't want it any more specific until minutes prior to the event.  no more than an hour or so.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 12:38:11 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #105 on: February 08, 2007, 01:39:48 PM »
All very good points!
Why couldn't we do both? Do Washington, AND do individual cities, all on the same day. The truth is, we know inherently that there are many who would love to go to Washington, but are unable for a plethora of reasons. Too sick, too broke, too isolated......etc.
If I were only reading this, and it happened to have been someone elses idea, I would opt for Washington because I know absolutely NO one in my city with HIV/AIDS. I don't do support groups, so I have no idea how many of us there are in my town. Aside from taking out an ad in the newspaper, there is no other means by which I could appeal to others in my area.
AIDSMEDS has been my support group for three years, and I have come to know so many of you on a personal basis as well.
For those able to get to Washington all the better, for those who cannot, they may be able to do a regional thing.
Really good thinking gang! Let's keep ourselves open to ideas, and once we get some momentum, we can vote.

Addendum: Each state could hold a similar march in the capitol of each respective state, right in front of the State Cap. buildings.

Go!

« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 01:41:52 PM by Lisa »
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Offline twofires

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #106 on: February 08, 2007, 02:16:30 PM »
my 2cents: keep the message on track and do not try to be all things to all people, which is to say diluting a message advocating more funding of AIDS/HIV related sciences with a broader stance of universal health care can only detract the media and government officals, for example, from staying On Point

blocking bridges or intersections nationwide might get a lot of people thrown in jail. This represents entirely new logictics in planning if one must also plan to get thrown into local jails for a few days...

also as the guy hosting the millionaidsmarch site, I don;t want to advocate anything illegal
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #107 on: February 08, 2007, 04:35:45 PM »
While we may continue the discourse of the elements of our stance, I must wholly agree that we do not wish to embark into illegal activities. Marching on bridges, or closing highways is to our greater detriment.
We wish to affect change through peaceful means.
I understand the mindset of inconveniencing John Q Public at large, in order to make our point, but I think a positive message is of more importance.
I'm not sure that pissing somebody off at rush-hour will make a positive statement.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #108 on: February 08, 2007, 04:37:51 PM »
Hmmmmm.

Civilized points and counterpoints.  Why cant more threads be like this?!?!?!?
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #109 on: February 08, 2007, 05:12:42 PM »
I'll go you one further.
Which would you be more responsive to.........

"Tonite, many of our viewing audience is in their cars, still trying to make it home.
It appears as though there are people standing across the span of the bridge with signs. .....
       Hang-on...we're going closer!........

O.K. ..This appears to be a protest of some genre,      .... we are ascertaining the message of this gathering........

   "...It appears to be a me'launjge'  of people saying AIDS IS STILL AN ISSUE OF NATIONAL IMPORTANCE!    "

"DO we know when these protesters will give over use of this bridge?"


"No, we have not been able to establish an idea of that yet!"

"Have any demands been made?"

"We are putting someone on the ground to establish a connection."

" So this is a protest?"  ...    Who is it? , and what do they want?"

" Looks like they are trying to convey the need for more aids money/funding."

"Well dang!...We KNEW all that!"

"So, have they made any progress to forward this shit before this?"

"Yeah, there's some background, but they've been pretty passive(read:=pansies) so far."

          Just my take.

It is still time!

« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 05:16:10 PM by Lisa »
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Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #110 on: February 08, 2007, 07:08:06 PM »
Another nice civil disobedience tactic is to get four vans, in one lane a piece on the  Beltway and to drive really slowly.

It's a guaranteed arrest, but it forces people to take notice...
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline twofires

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #111 on: February 08, 2007, 08:24:19 PM »
Freeway Blogging is a new cool method to get the word out, inexpensively

http://www.freewayblogger.com/

Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #112 on: February 09, 2007, 10:28:51 AM »
People I REALLY REALLY like what I am seeing here.  This is a great dialogue of options.  Keep throwing them out and we can pick the best one or two or even three to get our message across. 

I really cant emphasize enough how excited I am to see all those participating and not condemning each others ideas!!!

On a side note...the wife is paranoid about me getting arrested for protesting!!! It's SOOOO cute!  I love her to death!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #113 on: February 09, 2007, 11:32:07 AM »
Hey Lisa,

I have a website which is already built, has generated search engine visibility and had 60,000 + or - unique visitors between December 1, 2005 and December 1, 2006.  The website www.Commission-on-aids.org is at your disposal.  Have the best day
Michael

Offline Joe K

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #114 on: February 09, 2007, 11:35:30 AM »
I've been talking with Lisa and Tim (Moffie) and Lisa has asked me to encapsulate some ideas and lay some of the foundation for this event.  I am still working on it, but it will be up over the weekend.  And Twofires, thank you for that suggestion, I think you may have provided another way for us to really reach America in a very constructive way and be assured that anything we decide on doing will only involve CIVIL disobedience and nothing criminal.

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #115 on: February 09, 2007, 11:49:19 AM »
I really dig the freeway blogging idea!
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Offline Boo Radley

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #116 on: February 09, 2007, 06:33:11 PM »
Whew... I couldn't finish reading every post because my head already has too many ideas/questions about what I did read...

Lisa, when we spoke I stressed some of these points, but maybe in a different order:

1) Incorporation as a (eventually 501c3) non-profit.  (Make the corporation legally responsible for the website, too, so Patrick has no liability) (calling all non-profit corporate lawyers!)

2) Ask for technical assistance from individuals at AIDSmeds and other organizations that have pulled off large marches on the Capitol/elsewhere.  I have a feeling we'll need to cough up $$$ (which will be covered by the hundreds of thousands of people, corporations, and other organizations that donate $$$) to pull off an event of this size in D.C. 

3) Obtain piggy-back rights to use another 501c3 organization's tax number (until our own 501c3 is granted, which could be in 2008 the way things go...). 

4) Begin process of applying for 501c3 status from IRS (calling all non-profit corporate lawyers!).

5) Check scheduled events in D.C. and nationally to select potential march dates with few if any conflicts with other events. 

6) Check ASAP with necessary parties (U.S. Park Service, D.C. Police Dept., D.C. Sanitation, etc.) to make the logistics of such an endeavor legal and successful.  Secure permits, insurance (??? -- ouch!), and leap through other red tape hoops created by step # 2.

7) Start collecting $$$$.

8.) Hire me as PR Director with a nominal salary of at least $100K annually and finance a marketing/advertising budget of at least $1,000,000 .

9) Some other things but I forgot them already and it's time for my afternoon nap.

I've been asleep at the wheel for a week or so since I forget to check for threads in in Activism and did only today.  I'll be on a committee but I'm a flake so you might not want me.  I can try to work on any of the 8 actions listed above (number 8 stands out in my mind as extremely important so maybe we can approach Bill and Melinda for a few million right off the bat).

May these efforts mark the resurgence of peaceful social protest against so many other inequitable situations in the great old USA and our poor, pitiful world. 

And I am Marie of Roumania...

Boo Parker
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline ZCorker

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #117 on: February 12, 2007, 12:39:13 AM »
Hello Lisa:

   I think you can actually get the feds to review a 501(c)3 for $300 instead of $500.  Also, you may want to take notice of a great website called couchsurfing.com  This website does have a travel forum.  However, I don't think it gets as much attention as Craigslist.

  For whatever it is worth, Ryan White is not the only issue we are dealing with.  President Bush has ordered ACTU shut down.  Both Galveston, Dallas, and USC have been ordered completely shut down.  In addition, many of the sites that haven't been shut down have received funding cuts exceeding 80%.

   IN addition, Bush has taken away most of the money from the public hospital system and has indicated he won't allow them to receive more than what private hospitals receive after a standard reimbursement rate.

   This all comes at a time when public administrators are paid more than ever.  In Seattle, they recently raised the head of the University of WAshington from $440,000 to $718,000 and the guy who is getting the money says he wants more.

   We are told that congress doesn't have much control over these issues, but I question that.  In past years congress could veto a budget and now is the time for congress to do something provocative.

   I like the recent changes that have occurred with the House of Representative and I think for the first time we have some real voices there.  However, the Senate I am not to wild about.

   Tomorrow I will be spending $300 for a review fee for filing a non-profit organization.  The organization will be setup to help replace funds that were lost when Bush ordered the ACTU neutered.  Originally the organization was going to include only regenerative medicine and gene therapy techniques, but recent changes and funding cuts by Bush seem to indicate that additional research support is warranted.

  We have two more years of this bum in the White House and I strongly suspect that his next move will be to take away extra help for people on Medicare Part D.  I see it coming.

  This is a good time to reinvigorate Aids Activism.  I am going to try and move to Palo Alto so that I can continue getting medical care at Stanford.  I have been battling with resistant virus for over a decade and some of the California research sites have tools that are not available in the northwest.

   Glad to see there are other activists out and about.  I am wondering how many people know about Bush's cuts at ACTU?

 :-*

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #118 on: February 12, 2007, 01:19:31 PM »
Dear All,

One of the standard practices of ACT UP in the past was to always have a bunch of sound bytes which any ACT UP member could trot out for any media person hungry for same.

The media is rarely interested interested in a real discussion about the issues. What they love is something quick, preferrably tear jerky or witty, that will fly on the am or dinner news. So we would pass out sheets to members that would make it possible for anyone to be an informed spokesperson.

For instance this one fits most government plans including Bush's healthcare proposal and for that matter just about anything he proposes:

"It's a lie, it's a sham and it won't work!"

As we get closer to the March 20th action I will either post fact sheet info here or direct you to the ACT UP website for same.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline twofires

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2007, 05:56:45 PM »
Returning national awareness to the continuing threat that HIV/AIDS poses to our society before another American dies in a war that can be won!

(Billions of dollars, plane loads full of tons of cash literally LOST in Iraq: imagine how much research that could have funded!)
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2007, 01:57:33 PM »
BY jove! I think that is it! I am in complete agreement twofires.
Anyone care to second that? 
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Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #121 on: February 17, 2007, 02:17:45 PM »
Seconded!

But shouldn't it be "war that cannot be won?"
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline twofires

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #122 on: February 17, 2007, 08:24:42 PM »
I mean, the War on AIDS....
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #123 on: February 17, 2007, 08:43:51 PM »
I mean, the War on AIDS....

I am so sorry!

I thought you meant the war in Iraq... I'm stoopid!
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline twofires

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2007, 01:08:57 PM »
plus I think that we should remember these guys:

http://americablog.blogspot.com/search/label/veterans

and let them be first in line for a while
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline Lisa

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #125 on: February 20, 2007, 10:30:57 AM »
I just had to come here, and tell you guys this! As I watched the local morning news today, there was a segment done about the upcoming citywide cleanup. They are inducting groups of teens to be at the ready to quickly cleanup any new appearances of graffiti, which is a good thing, but in addition to this, they are also forming groups of teens to go around town removing all signs, and bills that are not legal.
I was daydreaming the other day about Patrick's idea of highway blogging, and actually had several bridges in my city in mind for this kind of project.
Piffle!
Guess I'll have to target bridges out of the city proper.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
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Offline mistermarkyp

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #126 on: February 23, 2007, 09:32:29 AM »
 ::) :D ;) 8)  I would love to do a march on Washington D.c. to show the bureaucrats that behind the number of deaths we are poeple just like them.  If we do the march I would love to have the AIDS Quilt brought to show the names of friends lost not just numbers.  My e-mail address is orionrca@yahoo.com.

Offline twofires

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2007, 12:10:49 PM »
being a frequenter for some activist liberal blogs, here are a couple others things that a large group of people can do short of risking arrest by doing freelance freeway blogging:

coordinated contact with elected official-
this includes things like everyone phoning the Reps/Senators DC office one day and leave a scripted comment. These numbers are tracked within our elected officials' offices! A mass influx of phone calls is something that gets notice!

changing up the mix a little bit, this technique is more of a positive reward for a positive action: when one of our elected officials actually takes a stand for (your plank here) a co-ordinated effort to send a nice bouquet of flowers with a Thank You note to the Reps/Sen's office is really effective as has been found by the crowd that follows Americablog.com

And I very much support this Positive Reward for Positive Positioning, rather than confrontational stance squared of against congressional/administration inaction

Positive Positioning may be described as any policy position that promotes the well being of the electorate over war-time industrialization and tax breaks for the upper 2%. But thats just my 2cents worth.

When a Congressperson or a Senator speaks out for something we support, a mass of people all call in an order for a nice bouquet to be delivered to that officials' DC office.

I'm telling you: this is definatley a very cool, highly appreciated reward system that lets our elected know we stand behind social policy rather than special interests. All for maybe $20.00 a pop. It really brightens their day, so in a sense we are Bringers of Light into their dreary hell each day must be. Sparks jump in the deepest recesses of their minds and they remember better days, halcyon days when loftier goals called them to public service before the special interests got their jaws wrapped round their souls.

If 100 people across the country send in a $20 bouquet to 1 office in one day, that sends a powerful, positive message: Thank You for Supporting the Will of the People, the Health of the People.

This is one of those Viral things, against which nothing can stand, not even the most vociferous of right wing nut jobs. Unconditional Positive Reinforcement, aka Love.

What is then required is a website whose format is to monitor who in DC is supporting what. I'm sure its out there somewhere and as with the wheel, does not need to be re-invented.  Just googled...

perhaps this is will become one of the foci of MillionAIDSMarch.org. Not so much a Real Date on the Mall rather a virtual skinner box for rewarding positive responses with a lovely cheap vase of flowers and a NOTE (don't forget to say which bill/amendment you are thanking them for) so the Rat you voted into office gets an ego stroke now and then.

Hows that for underhanded and devious?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 12:35:29 PM by twofires »
Who was it wrote; Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up?
-Roger Waters

Offline thunter34

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #128 on: March 01, 2007, 03:56:39 PM »
Hello, one and all!

I've had much going on with family, dying friends and personal ill health here lately...so I haven't been around on the boards much.  Just posting this as a way of virtually waving my arms in the air and saying, "Hey!  Still here and stuff!"

Also bumping the thread with the post.

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline k20a2

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what if you take this idea and made it happen
« Reply #129 on: April 10, 2007, 04:03:31 AM »
say we made a site and had a set date when the march was going to happen. we could get three million people to march and raise money for roundtrip tickets for you and two people that its affecting to washington dc on the 40th aniversey of hiv. sine its est. one million people have it in the us if we could bring a friend or two that would be even more. if we had a site with a countdown and a forum and maybe this site could do it? and a fund raiser for people that cant afford to go it this would happen i can see it too!

Offline kinstpete

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Re: AIDS March on Washington
« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2007, 05:23:21 AM »
I'm not sure if you are going to do an AIDS march or one for Universal Health Care, so why not do both?  Surely there is someone who could design a new logo that includes the AIDS Red Ribbon with some symbol to represent health care for all.  If you do it that way, very few can stand against you, because then you can play the sympathy card for babies or whatever we need to get our message heard.  After 12 years of Republican pablum we know that we need to slap America in the face and what better way to do that than by introducing an inclusive movement to better the health of all Americans.

As for DC, I say skip the whole thing there.  Instead, why not use the Internet to organize armies of supporters, who will wear our new symbol and then at a prearranged time, say noon, we work to bring any and all parts of this country to a standstill, if for nothing more, than to hear our message.  You could still have someone in DC who could be our spokesperson(s) to clarify our message to the country.  But if you want to really affect change, then you need to bring this issue to each and every American and since they do not live in DC, we need to take it where they live.

Imagine closing all the bridges in almost every American city for one-half hour.  With enough of us, the authorities would be fairly powerless to do anything as the "protest" would be there and gone before they even knew what hit them and even if there are arrests, even better to get our voices heard and to show the rest of America how grave the situation really is.  This is a fight we need to win and I believe that all options should remain on the table, with the exception of violence.  We are Americans and we know what moves this country, so let us tap that potential by bringing all the players to the table.

American health care, preventive programs and managing chronic illnesses.  That pretty well covers almost every American alive.

I like this Idea and think it could work better except the getting arrested part.  I actually have been involved with the million man/family marches and know for a fact that for them to be successful the basic cost is over 2 MILLION bucks unless you just plan to go to the mall and stand around.
Considering everyone I know that is HIV positive is in a financial bind a local protest would be better.

 


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