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Author Topic: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:  (Read 5418 times)

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Offline bobik

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Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« on: June 13, 2006, 06:11:35 PM »
Hi Moffie, in another thread you wrote this:


Filtered Water from now until death.  Cryptosporidium is found in most public water systems, and can be filtered out by using a simple faucet mount filter.  I reccommend using an undersink Reverse Osmosis filter if you can afford one.  I have not drank a glass of water out of the tap, in a restaurant, or anywhere but from a "pure" source since August of 1994.  Having experienced Crypto, and having it nearly kill me; I just will not take that chance anymore.  Normal levels of Crypto will not affect someone without HIV in the least, but we cannot be that free.

Wash all Fruit with antibacterial soap, BEFORE peeling and eating  Fecal bacteria is one of our most disgusting and hard to deal with germs in our food chain in the U.S.  It is everywhere, and to keep you from getting anything, a simple bath in Antibacterial soap in the sink before peeling, will definitely keep you well.  (try to peel and eat a banana without touching the fruit after peeling: see that is why  )

Bleach Greens  When preparing a salad, soak the greens and other fresh contents in one gallon of water with a tablespoon of laundry bleach in it and then rinse with filtered water, and spin or pat dry with a clean towel or spinner.  NO kidding, yes, I still do this every time. 

More protein  I would recommend that you reduce the total amount of fruit, and insert a healthier dose of protein.  Many of us have come to the conclusion, simply by observation of our own bodies; that the virus consumes a huge amount of protein to survive and multiply.  It is a viral protein, and as such, reduces the amount of useable protein in our bodies.  Consuming Animal Protein in large amounts has promoted to good health for many of us.  I highly recommend that you trash all past things you know/knew about nutrition and re-create one that is more HIV oriented.  Protein should be at the top of your list, accompanied by all the rest at fairly normal amounts.

Water  I recommend consumption of one gallon of filtered water a day.  This will ensure the good working of your internal organs, ie, liver, kidneys, heart, Biliary tree, and all the other things that promote good health and healing.  Remember, your body is now in fulltime battle with this evil bug, so anything you can do to promote good health will also help to extend your life.

Hope this very "short list" helps to get you started on a healthy pathway.


I really wonder if this is necesary or even wise. I mean, I agree with the drinking of much water but cryptosporidium is a risk that exists only when your cd4 count is really low, and all the anti-bacterial ideas seem pretty over the top to me. I mean, when you protect a child to much from dust and dirt it will develop astma later because its immune system never got any impulse to react on it. When someone has a working immune system, it is not so bad to be exposed to bacteria's now and then I think. When you follow your line, one should also avoid kissing because of bacteria's, have oral sex with a condom, not go into hospital buildings because there is no place where there are so many bacterias in the air, not eat in a restaurant because you never know what happens in a kitchen, immediately get rid of your pets........

I know what cryptosporidium can do, I have seem people die from it closely and it is amazing that you survived it, but I was surprised that you gave these advises to someone who didn't mention his immunity to be that low.

I hope you don't mind asking me about this. Is the situation that different in the US than in Europe? What do others think?

Respectfully,

Coen
Coen Honig at Facebook

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2006, 06:36:51 PM »
Coen,

Thanks so much for asking.  I just sat down to collect messages, and now my sweetie is on his way in the house, from work; so if you please, I will answer and will explain my keystrokes.  For now, let's wait for a few more responses, and then I will chime in when I have a minute or two.  For now, Sweetie reigns supreme with my time.  He is worth it too. ;D

In Love, and I promise I will get to this either this evening, or tomorrow morning.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline sdcabincrew74

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2006, 07:34:28 PM »
I happen to agree with Moffie on these counts and adopted most of all of that when I had a cd4 count of 22.  Now that I am in the 650's I wonder if it is necessary at times but in reality, better safe than sorry. The large amount of water I have found really helps with the side effects of the meds and in my mind, all that water helps flush everything out and keep things like my liver and kidney's working in spite of the cyto-toxic chemicals I swallow everyday.  I will admitt that I do not "bleach" my veggies but i do wash them with soap and water before cooking or eatting.  My doctor also told me to increase my protien and the best way to do that was through lean animal protien, he says, us HIV'ers need more. 
The difference between an overnight and a layover is luck!

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2006, 07:57:42 PM »
Hi there,

I will also, agree with with Tim, And I also understand, that there will be others that won't agree. To each his own.

Ever since I can remember, I have always made sure to wash fruits and vegetables before eating.And always practiiced food safety.Probably goes back to training, in the military. This was long before HIV became a part of my life. My mother was very big on this.

There are so many pesticides ETC being used today, and in some cases most likely NOT CORRECTLY BEING USED so I certainly, nor anyone else needs to have this stuff in our system.

In many cases, our drinking water is not always safe. In Clearwater , several years ago,  a very nasty bug was detected in the water supply at several locations. Although people were advised, that it would cause no harm, I for one, was not going to take that chance, especially, with the compromised immune system, that I had back then. I always drink filtered water, and also make sure to maintain the filter. If you don't maintain the filter, that makes the filter useless, and dangerous in it'self.

There was that case of bad strawberries a few years back also. That some had died from. And these were healthy !! So, I just won't take any chances, it's not worth it for me. I don't need to get sick. Some may interpret all this as being paranoid. Paranoid I am not, careful I am.


Just my thoughts-----Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline Biggums

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2006, 10:06:19 PM »
Many of the things Moffie suggested I did before my honey came down with HIV.  Having some experience with food (I eat alot of it) I know there are times in the past that I became very ill simply because the food I ate was contaminated with one thing or another.  Now, the risk seems worse than the mere minutes it takes to clean it properly, even if it is over the top.  But to each his own.
44 year old gay man .......just broke up with the only man I've ever really loved.

You can love completely without complete understanding.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2006, 10:21:22 PM »
Believe me, crypto is very serious.   I nearly died from it -- spent 14 days in intensive care to the tune of $130,000(1999 prices).   Protect yourself.

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2006, 10:49:07 PM »
I've lost two friends to crypto, so it's serious stuff. Doing what Daddy Tim (Moffie) advocates can't do you any harm.

MtD

Offline Terry

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2006, 10:54:46 PM »
I just read an article about bottle water. (Can’t find it right now.) Which stated that a filter on your sink is much better than bottled water. They had randomly tested bottle water and found it not as safe as the filters Tim has mentioned. Plus it cheaper and more convenient.

Another thing, Here where I live there are fields of wild blackberries everywhere. When they ripen you’ll see people pick them and eat them right off the bush without washing them first. There is bird crap on those bushes. My neighbor was deathly ill last year from doing the above. Dam fruit lived though.  :'(

Terry
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 10:57:17 PM by Terry »

Offline joemutt

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2006, 12:46:27 AM »
Tap water here in Bangkok is undrinkable, so the last 11 years i drank only from bottles. But I have never cooked my own food in the same period, always eating out three meals or more a day. Once I had food poisoning.
I must admit I hadn't heard about crypto before this thread.

Offline Markmt

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2006, 03:35:56 AM »
I use bottled water (have no space for filter under sink). Mainly I do it because I saw how dirty filters can get when purifying water and it had put me off tap water for drinking and cooking.

Regarding washing fruits and vegtables I used to avoid eating as a precaution them when my cd4 count was 165. Now I just give them a good wash and soak for a few minutes and I eat lots of them.. I know some people who are HIV- and still disentfect their fruits and veg. I personally encountered no problems. However I guess that a CD4 count can make a difference on how quickly cryptosporidium can get you down and be fatal.

For anyone who unfortunatly was effected by the bug, how much was your CD4 count when it happened?
"Live to love and love to live."

Leo Buscaglia

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2006, 10:14:35 AM »
Good Morning, (evening) Coen,

Well, there have been a few responses overnight, and much of the explanation for my reasons have already been stated.  I will go ahead and tell all, as you requested.

When I started to use filtered water, I actually used distilled water, as I wanted to be sure that I wasn't going to be infected with any water borne diseases.  I had just gotten out of the Hospital with PCP, and a CD4 of 20.  Yes I was a mess, and anything we could do to protect what was left of my body, we did.  Well, I never changed many of the habits, as our "rebuilt" immune system is not what the "intact" immune system is, and immune response for a "longterm survivor" is very fragile and tends to not be able to fight off nearly as many pathogens as before.  One thing I didn't mention in the original post, was that I have always used tap water for boiling pasta, veggies, and other things that are boiled; because then you don't depeat the amount of minerals and other things needed in the body for balance.

In the mid nineties, shortly after the Ryan White Act was placed into law, they modified it to purchase and give faucet filters to all HIV clients, as there was a very intense study out of Washington D.C. that showed that most public and private water systems had small amounts of Crypto in them.  Like I said above, anyone is capable of getting Crypto, but the effects of this bug on a normal immune system are very damaging, but usually not fatal.  For someone with a compromised immune system, not so much.  So, in an effort to keep HIV+s alive, the filter purchase program was placed into the law.  The rest of the precautions I spoke of, were to cleanse our food before placing it in our mouths. 

Gee, this is funny that your comments came up this week.  Last Friday, I made a Banana yogurt smoothie, and since the bananas were organic, I didn't wash the one I placed in the smoothie.  Well, wouldn't you know, I spent the night from about midnight on, nicely draped over the toilet, getting some sort of pathogen out of my system.  See, it just isn't worth the "shortcut" not to take all the precautions that we can to keep us safe.

I must tell you also, that for the 11 years prior to coming down with "full AIDS" and a complete struggle for life, I was not careful, and didn't do anything to guard me from anything.  When eating in truckstops, I often came down with stomach problems, but never made the connection, due to my denial about what HIV will do to the body if ignored.  I cannot advocate for doing all these things for someone who is newly infected, but hey, I cannot believe that doing these safety things will not protect us down the road.  Now when I eat out, I never order the salad with the meal, I always opt for the soup.  See, it can be done, and when ordering in Resturants, you can be fairly sure that you are going to be safe if you only order foods that have been cooked.  Often I will pick out a Chinese resturant on purpose, due to the huge amount of heat inside a wok, and the way they prepare meals will kill any bacteria present in the food or the kitchen.  One has to take chances on the cleanliness of their dishes and the like, but still today, if the silverware is placed on the table top surface without anything like a napkin under it, I always ask for clean utensils.  They often look at me with puzzlement, but then I explain that if I wanted the germs present on the table top, I would ask for the food to be served right on the table without a plate.  Little things are the ones that get us and catch us off guard.

Now for the subject of "needing bacteria".  I agree, we do need bacteria, but the dangerous ones are commonly mixed right in with the good, and to promote the intake of "Good Bacteria", and ignore the possibility of Hospitalization, I think is foolish and dangerous.  One never knows what is going to go into the mouth, and then you are screwed.  As for bacteria involved in sex play and the like, well, a nice shower with anti-bacterial soap, and a nice cleansing douche with a little white wine is usually sufficient to keep one safe from bacteria on the outside of the body.  Unfortunately this is not always possible, but for me it has always been possible and something we do religiously when doing sex play. 

As far as pathogens in Hospitals.  Well, this is funny also.  Two months ago, I needed hospitalization for a very advanced UTI, but my doctor, and my nurse would not allow me to go to the hospital, due to the large number of infections that were going through the hospital at that time.  They instead, set me up with catheters, and all the props for me to nurse myself back to health.  They were only a phone call away at all times, 24/7, so I was spared the onslaught of those bugs which tend to populate a Hospital.  This is one of those things which I chalk up to a "crap shoot", because when we really need hospitalization, we have to do it.  However, what you are saying about hospitals is definitely true, and something that we always have to be conscious of.  That is one of the reasons for taking precautions in our home, because often times, hospitals are a more dangerous place for people like us, than to stay home in our own environment.

Coen, I hope this explains what I placed here, and with all the rest of the responses, I think you can see that I am not an old worry wart, but a survivor who does many many detailed oriented things to keep my body safe and healthy.  Yes I am carrying a 600 range CD4, but they are not very good CD4s and they have a difficult time fighting off infections for me.  That is why I still carry my water with me almost everywhere I go.  I need much more water than the average bear, (see sdcabincrew's donation above) so I just do it.  I also keep two gallons of distilled water in the trunk of the car, because living in the desert, one never knows when you might be stranded.

In Love, and constant vigilance.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline CalvinC

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2006, 11:58:35 AM »

Taking from what Moffie says about restaurants:

Moffie et al, having worked in restaurants and at catered affairs, I might argue that silverware is the least of your worries. What often goes on behind the scenes might make you ill.

For example, food dropped on the floor, eg, a steak or a piece of chicken, is often actually served due to what is called the "30 second rule," the notion that food contact with the floor or unclean counter etc can only be harmful is left there more than 30 seconds. It's true! Not an urban myth! Do I believe that notion? No. I think restaurants use that as a self-justifying reason to save on food costs. Also, salad ingredients, esp. lettuce and spinach are quickly rinsed. Plates are handled by at least three people: the dishwasher, the cook, and the server. And so on. I am almost inclined to think that fast food places like McD's are the cleanest, as they cook the hell out of everything and serve it in sterile packaging, with minimum exposure to surfaces and people's hands.

cal

But advice taken. What might be the best thing to do is to bring an alcohol swab wipe and wipe the cutlery, or bring your own. Otherwise, though, there is little you can do about food prep, plates, glasses etc. I think that organic restaurants are likely better, but who's to say.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2006, 12:17:20 PM »
Daddy Tim gives us sage advice.

We need to be careful about what we eat and drink. I still drink tap water, but the community that I live in has particularly clean tap water. I no longer eat or drink dairy products that are not pasteurised nor will I eat blue or white vein cheeses. It would not hurt any of us to fit a filter, especially the reverse osmosis filters to which Daddy refers.

Financial considerations notwithstanding.

MtD




Offline Cliff

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2006, 01:24:03 PM »
Do doctors actually tell people about this?  I don't recall a doctor ever mentioning do's and dont's on eating and drinking.  Maybe a lot of this is about how weakended your immune system is or maybe doctors don't pay enough attention to it. 

I'm not all that careful about what I eat or drink.  I suppose this is something where until it affects you, it's difficult to change old (pre-HIV) habits, that is until you get sick and realize just how much risk you were taking.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2006, 01:31:09 PM »
...................................... What often goes on behind the scenes might make you ill........................

Well Thanks Calvin,

You are just a barrel of laughs this morning.  ;D

Yes, I have often wanted to hear from someone who is HIV+ and intimate with the industry.  Now you have substantiated the reason that I/We almost always take our food when traveling away from home for a day or more.  Whenever I go to Phoenix for meetings at the Capital, I always take my lunch, and take it right into the meetings, due to the lack of attention to the clock.  When we are on noon meds, then it is better to have the food with the meds, if that can be done. 

Thanks for nothing here.......... Now I really have to re-think where I eat. 

In Love, and remember, making a joking remark here is terribly difficult, but please be sure, this frustration with you was done in "jest".
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2006, 01:34:35 PM »
I'm not all that careful about what I eat or drink.  I suppose this is something where until it affects you, it's difficult to change old (pre-HIV) habits, that is until you get sick and realize just how much risk you were taking.

The story of my life, "Pre-AIDS".  Thank you for bringing this up also Cliff.  It is so very true.

In Love.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline CalvinC

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2006, 04:07:54 PM »

Heh heh.

Oh I've got dozens of "restaurant stories." As I'm sure many waiters do. Or ex-waiters like me.

Fortunately, I am not (yet) on meds, so I don't really give it much thought. Just got the results of my first blood work this morning, and everything is "perfectly normal." My life moves onward.

cal

Offline Terry

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2006, 05:30:36 PM »

Calvin,

Having worked in the restaurant/bar business for many years and witnessing what can and DOES happen to food before it gets to the guest, itís a wonder I eat out at all.

Not to mention what happens to your food if you give your server a hard time. It never made sense to me for a person to insult the person who is about to serve you your food. I think a couple of years ago I mentioned to the forum, what happened to Tottie Fields food . ďA female comedian from the 70ísĒ  Letís just say,  that the captain sauteed her steak before serving it to her.          In the menís room!

YUK YUK YUK YUK PUKE
Terry (Who has seen more than he cares to remember)  ::)



Offline rocket

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2006, 05:59:58 PM »
When I worked in a fast food restaurant I remember a girl cleaning out the milkshake machine with one of those toilet bowl bristled type cleaners,and it was used.I remember the management laughing about it but I think they threw it away and cleaned the milkshake machine,but Im not sure it was 25 years ago.I remember that and them yelling at me for putting too much roast beef on a popular sandwich item.If we only knew the stuff that goes on we wouldnt eat at half these places.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2006, 06:57:05 PM »
I applaud anyone who manage to take all the precautions mentioned above.  Personally, I couldn't do it.  I understand that precautions need to be made after diagnosis, but some of these things seem just a bit over the top.  I to was hospitalized a little over 3 years ago with PCP and around 20 t's.  When I was released, I went back to living a filthy hotel room.  I had no kitchen so I basically recovered by eating peanut butter sandwiches, pizza, or items I could cook in a microwave.  I've never been over particular about bottle water or tap water, and I only give my vegetables and fruit a quick rinse with tap water.  I eat out about 3 times a week and I smoke (albeit, less and less each day lately).  I managed to recoup.  I don't know.  I guess for me I just feel I need to live my life and not worry about silly things (to me) like desanitizing my fruit and vegetables.  But  I guess it's like any other lifestyle change and one becomes accustomed to it.  I'm learning that know.  I have changed my diet in the last month and a half to eat healthier foods and take in more lean protein, and that in itself is hard.  I had to pass up a piece of chocolate cake at lunch today! 

Offline bobik

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Re: Moffie, a question for you about healthy living:
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2006, 04:31:38 AM »
Hello Tim and others,

I notice a BIG difference between what is being advised to people in Europe (or at least the Netherlands) and the US. The quality of the water in the Netherlands is very good and it is safe to drink it. Of course I wash my veggies and fruit but doing it with fresh water is enough. But then I remember having been in the US in 1994, and after that I got a mysterious bowel disease that tormented me for 2 years and almost killed me. I always had the idea that the trip to the US had something to do with it, but I never was sure. Reading about your water gives me some clue.

What about building up resistance? If you are never ever exposed to anything, will your immunesystem not be shocked when you do actually catch something?

Coen

Coen Honig at Facebook

 


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