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Author Topic: Trying to Learn all I can  (Read 5195 times)

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Offline Ral24Guy

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  • Posts: 6
Trying to Learn all I can
« on: January 11, 2007, 01:38:54 AM »

   I guess I should start by saying that I was diagnosed positive on oct 4th, 2006.  I went to the doctor for a physical and one blood test led to another, that eventually led to my diagnosis.  Since then I have spent countless hours online researching as much as I could find and asking my doctor tons and tons of questions.  I waited many years to get tested and my doctor estimates that I have been HIV positive for over three years.  After careful planning and consideration,  I have started medication.  Treatment has been a whole lot easier than the rumors I have ever heard.  I take two pills at night before bed and that's it.  I am very thankful to be able to take meds and that treatment has advanced as far as it has.  My doctor ran all the appropriate tests and I have no resistances.  I am very thankful to have the opportunity to take a wide range of meds on the market. 
     So as a gay male, I have searched the internet far and wide to find others like myself.  Call it my support group, but it has been most helpful to me and has kept me from feeling completely alone.  I have one question that my doctor won't give me a direct answer to.  With a lot of the hiv positive gay men I have chatted with, most seem extremely comfortable with having bareback sex...  In fact, most seem to prefer it.  So my question lies with resistances.  If I decide to have unprotected sex with another hiv positive guy that has been around the block more than his fair share of times, what is the risk that I will "pickup" his resistances to medication?  And what is the chance that someone can become resistant to all the medications on the market? 
    I'm only 25, and I plan on seeing many many more years.  But these questions really make me wonder about my future and the future of the friends I have made.  I'd like to start dating, and would like to date another positive guy so that I can be there for him as much as he would be there for me, and with common understanding.  Any feed back would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you!

Offline rick21007

  • Member
  • Posts: 286
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2007, 09:00:11 AM »
Hey--welcome!  Glad you found us.  I am fairly new to the forums myself--was diagnosed after you were.  I am finding the forums very helpful and the people are pretty cool.

About your question, I was just having that discussion with a friend on the forums the other day.  There are different strains of hiv out there so in fact you can still infect each other with a different strain barebacking.  And I am told that is a pretty bad condition to treat. 

A lot of us were infected barebacking I will assume.  It took me a while to accept my barebacking days were over at first, especially at this time in my life when I have found that one incredible man to share my life with.   But the consequences of not using a condom everytime I have  intercourse is something I am not willing to place anyone else and myself at risk for .

Hey, stick around and get to know folks here.  Glad you asked a very important question.

Best   Rick

Offline rick21007

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  • Posts: 286
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2007, 09:03:57 AM »
BTW I may be misreading your post but I'd sure advise you to not limiting yourself to dating other pozes.  You can have a great sex life with a guy who is negative----gee!  a great life period.  I am here to tell you!!


Offline koi1

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  • Posts: 713
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2007, 09:31:55 AM »
Hey Guy,

Superinfection is one thing my doctors warned me about. This really complicates treatment because it could make whole classes of drugs unavailable to you, since once a virus develops resistance it is often to all drugs in that class. There is als HEP A,B,C, to consider which would really complicate things. Anal warts are highly correlated with anal cancer in HIV infected people and liver cancer with HEP B and C. Not to mention all the goodies that you can catch. Your liver is your best friend and the least pills it has to process the healthier it will be to deal with the meds you have to take. Don't jeapordize your health. When it comes to treatment the simpler you can keep it, the better. Barebacking is still a bad idea. That's how I got the AIDS. For the protection of you and your partner use a condom!

diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline indyguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 260
  • Hoosier Boy Single Again.
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 03:36:48 AM »
Dude I work in a hospital. DO NOT HAVE SEX WITHOUT A CONDOM. You are at risk of reinfecting you and your partner as well as hepititus. Not worth it.
Meds doing well so far.

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 04:54:06 AM »
Don't jeapordize your health. When it comes to treatment the simpler you can keep it, the better. Barebacking is still a bad idea. That's how I got the AIDS.

Ditto to that! And kudos for taking the steps to educate yourself about HIV/AIDS.




Offline mrtallguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 199
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2007, 06:05:40 AM »
Hey Guy....
I just posted the same question yesterday under Living with HIV....I know where you are coming from...seems that everyone is told "don't bareback" yet I just don't see or encounter this mindset in the naked mode.  When I am with another poz guy it seems to be assumed that we will bareback.   Not that this makes it right of course!!  Seems like I need to HEAR the horror stories in order to BELIEVE that it is true.  I don't know anyone who has become co-infected....although it usually is not clear when it has happened.   Co-infection just might be the next ugly wave in the HIV epidemic....right now I see guys letting their guard down and more barebacking is occurring due to the wide array of meds, etc.   We are NOT seeing the headlines
"CO-INFECTION ON THE RISE"  so we, perhaps, tend to think that it is a NON-REALITY.  DanielMark has a good point that many of us must consider on this issue...most of us contracted HIV in the bareback mode! Food for thought....not tasty food mind you...but it has been served!  :(

Be Well...


Offline rick21007

  • Member
  • Posts: 286
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2007, 06:35:02 AM »
Craig--the problem for pretty much all of us I suspect is that we contracted hiv in the first place in our "naked mode" when the big head is off-line.  I remember my partner and I both had condoms when I was infected. Problem was nobody  ever told us they are not effective unless you take them out of the wrapper and actually put them on!  I like to blame it all on that.  An yes, my partner de noir lied to me about his status but then it was obvious he wasn't 8" either, so you think I might have had 2nd thoughts about his penchant for the truth.

Fact is there has to be a conversation and agreement before you are in naked mode about using a condom.  It can be a pretty cool turn on to put a condom on each other ;D  But no shit Jose, we all pretty much __prefer_ barebacking. 

BTW I did contract hepb at the same time.  That was just a whole lot of fun for a couple of months.


Offline Ral24Guy

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2007, 01:59:21 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.  All of your replies have been most helpful.  I've done tons of research and most never touch this subject.  I really appreciate all of the viewpoints and it will be knowledge that I will arm myself with in the future and hopefully be able to share with the friends in my life that do practice unsafe sex.  :)

Offline NewYorkKat

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  • Posts: 134
  • Hangin' On Staying Strong
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2007, 05:10:00 PM »
Ral, Let me be honest: DON'T BAREBACK! It's plain and simple. You can get reinfected and before you know it you have more than one type to HIV virus to deal with and you might need to take more pills. If anything and I will be honest with you, give up anal sex for some time and see how you adjust to it. Seriously, with my situation, I learning to love my husband more than just a great f*ck, we do more than sex now. So my advice is when you meet someone for a hook up or just an LTR, learn to do more than just anal.

I could right or wrong but believe me, it's just not worth barebacking anymore.

Offline mrtallguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 199
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2007, 09:08:02 PM »
Hey Ral.....
I think you and I are in the same mind-space.....if barebacking is SO bad....WHY is everyone doing it?  As I said in my initial response those who say DON'T DO IT do not have real life examples or consequences.   Most everyone repeats advice given to them or in the case of this forum you may get directed to links from other websites of "professionals" who lecture about the probability of co-infection or superinfection.  The whole issue is still very new and it is mostly uncharted territory even at the most prestigious institutions.   I know that I need  to "see it to believe it" (hard head syndrome!!) which is not a mindset to have.  So it remains to be a gamble where each one of us will have to determine, in our own world, how long we will continue "rolling the dice" before we step back from the game....we did not step back from the game in the first round (getting infected) so will we keep playing for "round 2" (superinfection) ??  (<-- what I write and what I do somehow do not always agree! UGH!)  But just the act of writing this response has helped me see more clearly!

Be Well...

Offline rick21007

  • Member
  • Posts: 286
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2007, 12:28:41 AM »
Hey Craig----lets just put hiv super-infection out of the picture for a moment.  There is a lot of other nasty shit out there to pick up.  I am probably the least read people pretty inexperienced when it comes to hiv but I can tell you from my own experience from my barebacking days  (I coulda written a lot of what you wrote in your post BTW in terms of my  roll-of-the-dice outlook.)  I contracted hep B last spring and I am here to tell you it was no picnic for several months.  Fortunately for me I did not go chronic and there was no liver damage.  My brother was not so lucky (youda thought I might have learned something from his example) but he is chronic and right now is waiting to have a liver biopsy done because things are not looking so good for him.  BTW chronic hep really complicates the picture if you are on meds for hiv because your liver is compromised and the hiv meds can really tax that organ.  And B aint as bad as C, but I don't have any direct experience with C other than working with people who are hepC and seeing what they go through.  Then there are all the other STDs out there.  You don't even want to know about warts and some of that shit.  Well if someone would have preached this stuff to me a year ago  (even after the hepB episode you think I woulda listened???)  Finally took hiv to get my attention.

Best, Rick

Offline mrtallguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 199
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2007, 10:24:17 AM »
Hey Rick....
Thanks for your posting!  Somehow, despite all my slutty ways, I continue to be extremelly lucky in that I have never had to deal with a problematic STD.   Even my HIV has not been very invasive....although it probably is time to go back and read all MY postings regarding my new friend "Insomnia".  The wise owl in my head is saying right now "If THAT is not invasive then WHAT is?"  (good point wise owl)  SOOOO change is in the air and fortunately it is occurring as a result of participating in these forums instead of participating in a wild sex party....hmmm....maybe I should log on to Manhunt.....NOT!!

Be Well.....


PS....Ral...what I am learning is that there is no way to make a direct connection between barebacking and the possible results....how will a doctor KNOW if a new found drug resistance in me is a result of that bareback party I attended 6 months ago?  All he/she will know is that there are fewer treatment options now available.  Hmmm...food for thought....like brussel sprouts mixed with lima beans! yuck!

Offline dtwpuck

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  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2007, 08:23:43 PM »
I've been on the cross infection study for quite a while.  Guess what.   I still have exactly the same strain I have always had and no other.  Seems like the cross infection risk is more of a strawman than anything else.  Just press your doctor to come up with actual documented cases of post seroconversion cross infection and you will be about as successful as a geek on american idol.

Poz guys bareback each other all the time.  All the time.  All the time.  In fact, those who do outnumber those who don't by so much that it's really hard to find anyone who sticks to his guns on that issue.

But here's the thing:   I've had syphilis once, gonorrhea often enough that I can tell it's coming, and the joy of joys.. herpes.  If you decide to bareback, you will get these lovely pretties.  I promise.  Swear to god, hope to die.  And you know what's really cool about things like herpes?  It hurts.  It weakens your immune system.  It interacts with HIV in such a way that it accelerates the progress of the disease.  It's really a cool one to get. And it's just not worth it.    But that doesn't really mean poz guys won't bareback, or listen, or care. 

Ultimately YOU have to decide what your acceptable level of risk is.  Get the facts.  Make your choices.  And stick to your guns if you choose to play safe.  :-)

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline lifechanging2007

  • Member
  • Posts: 29
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 10:15:45 AM »
I have to say dtwpuck your last reply to this subject is interesting.
I always was aware of unsafe sex and what it could do, in 80% of the times i used condoms it only took 1 time and here I am with HIV (the worst virus known to man) so it will only take one time to get HEP B or C. Why risk more pain and more medication and dtwpuck it shocks me with all the STDS you've been infected didn't you learn to USE condoms.
Finally, I would like to thank ral because honestly all the stuff i heard about side effects of the meds are horrible but as you said "you were lucky you have all these available meds on the market" as for me im not that lucky i live in the third world "lebanon" the only meds available are the most primitive ones "retrovir, nevirapine and saquinavir" whose side effects are horrible(as i heard) I wish i won't have to do meds for some time.
27/01/07 CD4=15.36%=245 VL=542000
14/03/07 CD4=13%=241 VL=858000    STARTED COMBIVIR AND SUSTIVA ON APRIL 27, 2007
05/09/07 CD4=22%=361  VL=undetectable
21/12/07 CD4=22%=451  VL=undetectable

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead
Today and tomorrow are yet to be said
The chances, the changes, are all yours to make
The mold of your life is in your hands to break.

Offline Fosbery

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Trying to Learn all I can
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2007, 06:27:45 PM »

I find it ironic how HIV people say never never bareback, where was that logic when we were negative.
If we had that same mindset we wouldn't be here today.

Makes one think, don't it ?

But I agree using condoms is still the best solution...........don't need anymore STD's


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