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Author Topic: Smokers  (Read 97816 times)

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Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #200 on: January 11, 2007, 08:01:37 PM »
I think what it boils down to is respect, and the imposition of beliefs upon others.  Perhaps people haven't been able to pinpoint it, but we all come out fighting like badgers when we feel that our choices are being taken away.

This was a hot topic for many people before they even opened the thread.  It doesn't surprise me that people got time outs. :)

-joseph

Offline Ann

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #201 on: January 11, 2007, 08:07:08 PM »
I'm repeating this now that we've moved on to page three...

EVERYONE...

This is a general warning. If we have a repeat of what went on in this thread earlier today, ALL INVOLVED will be given a Time Out. I'm NOT kidding.

If you are unsure whether what you want to post will earn you a time out, DON'T post it. Simple as that.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #202 on: January 11, 2007, 08:10:53 PM »
I think what it boils down to is respect, and the imposition of beliefs upon others.  Perhaps people haven't been able to pinpoint it, but we all come out fighting like badgers when we feel that our choices are being taken away.

-joseph

Absolutely, Joseph, well said.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline lydgate

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #203 on: January 11, 2007, 08:19:20 PM »
Since there's been a lot of talk of risks, voluntary and involuntary on this thread, some figures (from an old JAMA article) that I found interesting. The ratio next to each risk represents "Risk of death per person per year."

Involuntary Risks:

1. Struck by automobile: 1 in 20,000
2. Floods: 1 in 455,000
3. Falling aircraft: 1 in 10 million
3. Leukemia: 1 in 12,500
4. Influenza: 1 in 5,000
5. Earthquake (California): 1 in 588,000
6. Tornadoes (Midwest): 1 in 455,000

Voluntary Risks:

1. Smoking, 20 cigarettes a day: 1 in 200
2. Drinking, bottle of wine a day: 1 in 13,300
3. Automobile racing: 1 in 1,000
4. Horse racing: 1 in 740
5. Rock climbing: 1 in 7,150
6. Professional boxing: 1 in 14,300
7. Canoeing: 1 in 100,000
8. Motorcycling: 1 in 50
9. Skiing: 1 in 430,000
10. Abortion, first trimester: 1 in 50,000

The statistics are a bit old, but fascinating nonetheless.

On the question of perceived risk and how endpoint affects that, I'm reminded of a cartoon:

Pollster: "Lifelong smokers have a one-in-two chance of dying from smoking-related disease."
Guy with cig in mouth: "It'll never happen to me."
Pollster: "The odds of winning the powerball lottery are 80 million to one."
Same guy, holding a ticket: "This could be my lucky day!"

 ;D

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #204 on: January 11, 2007, 08:20:35 PM »
This thread would not be complete without this:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_it3btjwmzo




Aaaah....there it is.....
I forgot how much I loved these babies.  :D :D :D

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #205 on: January 11, 2007, 08:21:22 PM »
In the end... the world death rate is holding fairly steady at 100%

I hear the risk of dying from being born is 1 to 1.   ;)
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #206 on: January 11, 2007, 08:21:49 PM »
I'm an idiot and don't know how to modify my own posts.

Ignore me from now on, please.   :D
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Razorbill

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #207 on: January 11, 2007, 08:31:13 PM »
aupoint -
 In all seriousness, there are deaths and there are deaths  - I know this up close and personal.  Choose your demise wisely.
le pingouin (Razorbill in French)

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #208 on: January 11, 2007, 08:34:15 PM »
Ignore me from now on, please.   :D

OKay



LOL... J/K  :)

-joseph

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #209 on: January 11, 2007, 08:35:25 PM »
Perhaps people haven't been able to pinpoint it, but we all come out fighting like badgers when we feel that our choices are being taken away.

GREAT point, thanks. I never looked at it from that angle.

Me, I wanna die like Rose in Titanic: warm 'n' fuzzy


Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #210 on: January 11, 2007, 08:42:25 PM »
aupoint -
 In all seriousness, there are deaths and there are deaths  - I know this up close and personal.  Choose your demise wisely.
le pingouin (Razorbill in French)

I know... I do have a dark, dry sense of humor.

In all seriousness... I do have a feeling... that my demise will end up choosing me regardless of my feelings on the matter.  I'm not trying to argumentative at all... I just think that we all die eventually... I know exactly what you mean, and part of me agrees with it.  I suppose that's why I make light of it. 

I feel like if I didn't mock death, in any of its forms... it would probably end up driving me crazy and consuming me.

And that's most bold-faced honest thing I've ever admitted to anyone on here.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #211 on: January 11, 2007, 08:46:11 PM »

And that's most bold-faced honest thing I've ever admitted to anyone on here.

I don't know... I thought the heroin use was pretty bold. :)

I admire you.

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #212 on: January 11, 2007, 08:47:42 PM »
I don't know... I thought the heroin use was pretty bold. :)

I admire you.


Thank you. 

It's so much easier for me to talk about what I've done than what I feel, I suppose.  I'm uncomfortable with most emotion.  I don't know why... but I am.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #213 on: January 11, 2007, 08:51:22 PM »
Thank you. 

It's so much easier for me to talk about what I've done than what I feel, I suppose.  I'm uncomfortable with most emotion.  I don't know why... but I am.

In a society where we're taught that emotional visibility is a sign of weakness, it doesn't surprise me.

-joseph

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #214 on: January 11, 2007, 08:54:07 PM »
In a society where we're taught that emotional visibility is a sign of weakness, it doesn't surprise me.

-joseph

I was blaming it on my mother's family being Southern....

No joke.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #215 on: January 11, 2007, 08:55:50 PM »
I'm uncomfortable with most emotion.  I don't know why... but I am.

you're a man! hello!

Offline thunter34

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #216 on: January 11, 2007, 09:00:19 PM »
I was blaming it on my mother's family being Southern....

No joke.


I think I get where you're coming form on that:  there is this whole 'things that aren't talked about or seen' deal going on with southern families.  at least with mine.  but we digress. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Bartro

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #217 on: January 11, 2007, 09:36:36 PM »
Not to change the subject but...

There's a city about thirty miles from here that recently banned all smoking in public places.  Numerous efforts through referendum were made to make exceptions for taverns and eating establishments that serve liquor.  These all failed.  A once thriving nightlife in the city's downtown evaporated overnight. 

This might sound like a good thing.  Less drinking, less driving and less smoking.  The problem now is on the highway.  All those late night partiers take to the highway to outlying communities where smoking is still permitted.  Accidents on the highways have increased dramatically.  The anti's got their way and innocents are paying the price.   I doubt that very few of those voting for the ban ever frequented these establishments.  Just pushing what they think is right onto others.  There's talk of a statewide ban but that would just increase problems in the border cities and interstate highways. 

If there was a real demand for smoke-free establishments I'm sure some entrepreneur would have taken advantage.
Now they have nothing but unemployment, boredom, vacant buildings and the final "death blow" to an historic downtown.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 09:38:33 PM by Bartro »
Rusty

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #218 on: January 11, 2007, 09:39:14 PM »
Not to change the subject but...

AHhhhhhh... prohibition.

Yes...   It didn't work in the 20's...  You can only push people so far with right limitations before you invent another genre of organized crime...

:)

My great grandma used to bootleg whiskey. :)

-joseph

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #219 on: January 11, 2007, 09:42:33 PM »
AHhhhhhh... prohibition.

Yes...   It didn't work in the 20's...  You can only push people so far with right limitations before you invent another genre of organized crime...


A few years ago when Maryland knocked up their cigarette taxes to really high levels... some organzied criminals got in on buying massive quantities of them here in Virginia and were selling them up there...

The alleged purpose of the taxes was to deter smoking... but I saw this neat infographic that showed the state with the lowest cigarette tax (Virginia) versus the highest (New York).  And in both states, about 25% of the adult population smokes. 

Thank you, Washington Post.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Bartro

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #220 on: January 11, 2007, 09:55:13 PM »
AHhhhhhh... prohibition.

Yes...   It didn't work in the 20's...  You can only push people so far with right limitations before you invent another genre of organized crime...

:)

My great grandma used to bootleg whiskey. :)

-joseph

Hey, my great grandmother told tales of making "bathtub gin" and selling it in her "speak-easy".  Her daughter, my grandmother, when a young girl would dance on the bar and sing vulgar drinking songs of the day.  My grandmother, probably due to a bit of senility, recently began to constantly sing these awful ditties.  I have to admit, some of them made me blush, coming out of grandma's mouth.

Maybe when, and if, smoking becomes illegal I'll open a "smoke-easy".
Rusty

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #221 on: January 11, 2007, 10:04:43 PM »
Hey, my great grandmother told tales of making "bathtub gin" and selling it in her "speak-easy".  Her daughter, my grandmother, when a young girl would dance on the bar and sing vulgar drinking songs of the day.  My grandmother, probably due to a bit of senility, recently began to constantly sing these awful ditties.  I have to admit, some of them made me blush, coming out of grandma's mouth.

Your grandma sounds like she was just the bee's knees!

Before my great grandma died, I remember taking care of her one night, only to hear her (she was bed-ridden mind you)  saying some of the most horribly wretched things as she slept.  I woulda swore she was a sailor! :)

She was a neat lady, though... and always encouraged me to do whatever I damn well pleased. :)  Who woulda thunk? :)

-joseph

Offline thunter34

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #222 on: January 11, 2007, 10:07:19 PM »
I found out recently that my grandfather was a bootlegger!  Even had an airstrip in the hills that he used to fly booze out of!  HA! 

I come from outlaw stock. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #223 on: January 11, 2007, 11:21:45 PM »
All smokers are the knowing or inadvertant followers of the Horned One, the Beast, the Name that Dare Not be Spoken... and on and on and on.

Exposure to too much tobacco smoke makes me physically ill and I have to remove myself from the environment or the smoker from the environment.  In my house people can smoke one cigarette in a 1 hour period.  If more than 1 cig per hour is desired there are the front and back porches.  Maximum 3 cigs...

Other than that I don't care who smokes or why or how bad it is because I have a few bad habits myself and I'll not caste the first stone.  I always wait until there's no chance the stoned one can fight back and then throw the largest rocks I can find.

Why is tonight the first time I noticed this stupid font?
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #224 on: January 11, 2007, 11:25:31 PM »
Why is tonight the first time I noticed this stupid font?

I'd really like to say that it's because you're a dumbass, but I know you've been focusing on yoru liza history and working up those subliminal messages to make everyone eat cheese. :)

We forgive you...   of our deepest benevolence.

-joseph

Offline rick21007

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #225 on: January 11, 2007, 11:56:20 PM »
Geez gang!  I left this thread a couple of days ago. (puff)  Amazing the emotional charge the subject carries.  I wonder why that is?  Smoking marijuana sure doesnt elicit anything of the same intensity.

I sorta wonder if it isn't the pecking order thing??  Being a gay man who is hiv poz I sorta feel like in this society for the most part I am hanging out on one of the bottom rungs of the social ladder. (well at least the social ladder I was raised on)
 Being a smoker to boot I guess I just dropped a few more rungs. (puff)

I used to tell people I was clawing my way to the bottom and I didn't care who I had to step on to get there. (puff)

And for y'all raised in the South you can just bless my heart!  (He's a smoker, bless his heart!)

Best,  Rick

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #226 on: January 12, 2007, 01:18:19 AM »
I don't know... I thought the heroin use was pretty bold. :)

I admire you.


He's not the only one... just call me River Phoenix
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #227 on: January 12, 2007, 01:19:12 AM »
I'd like to marry Boo so that I can steal all of his klonopin
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #228 on: January 12, 2007, 01:27:34 AM »
I'd like to marry Boo so that I can steal all of his klonopin

me too!! :)   let's marry him together!  :)

*giggle*


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #229 on: January 12, 2007, 01:39:37 AM »
Well, we'd have to clean his house first.  Plus do we really want to live in a flood zone?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline bear60

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #230 on: January 12, 2007, 09:49:41 AM »
There is a guy who "hangs out" in our neighborhood.  He is a crack (drug) addict. We refer to him as" the bottom feeder" because he has been offered help dozens of times, been incarcerated dozens of times... but he gets cleaned up and comes back and finds some old carpet that someone threw out and a cardboard box and builds himself a little condo in an alley way and preceeds to do as much drug as he can.  He goes into churches and robs them...and goes BACK and asks the priest for handouts of cash or food.  My neighbor is one of the priests who has tried to help him by getting him into rehab.  No luck.  This guy lays in the street in front of the priests house and puts up a howl like a wounded animal and rolls around as if in agony just to get the priests attention. So he will get another 5 dollars ........for drugs ya suppose?  After 10 years of this ..not joking....the priest has gotten a restraining order on the guy so if he shows up the police can be called and he will be arrested.
My accupuncturist said the treatment he gives for heroin addiction and for nicotine addiction is the same one.  Just saying.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 09:51:23 AM by bear60 »
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Life

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #231 on: January 12, 2007, 10:10:01 AM »
DAY 3 FOR ME..

Offline bear60

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #232 on: January 12, 2007, 10:11:11 AM »
Good for you Eric.
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline lydgate

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #233 on: January 12, 2007, 10:21:32 AM »
Yep Eric. Write, call if you need anything. DON'T lean over a cliff etc. these days anyway :D

It gets better after Day 3. It really does.

Love, Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Life

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #234 on: January 12, 2007, 10:24:50 AM »
I have strugged with this idea for more years then I care to admit.   I want it to be over (as much as it can be) and feel better about things that are within my control...   Thanks Joel & Jay...   Im not going to give in..

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #235 on: January 12, 2007, 11:36:46 AM »
In the end... the world death rate is holding fairly steady at 100%

I hear the risk of dying from being born is 1 to 1.   ;)

I LOVE THIS ANSWER!  It is one of my life philosophies!!!

Never take life TOO seriously because you'll NEVER get out alive!!!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #236 on: January 12, 2007, 11:37:59 AM »
All smokers are the knowing or inadvertant followers of the Horned One, the Beast, the Name that Dare Not be Spoken... and on and on and on.

LORD VALDEMORT IS HERE?????????????????

Where's Harry when I need him.....
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Strayboy74

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #237 on: January 12, 2007, 11:41:54 AM »
Plus do we really want to live in a flood zone?

Yeah, yer right. :(

LOL

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #238 on: January 12, 2007, 02:10:29 PM »
Bear... you should send me info on your acupuncturist, if you don't mind.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fondeveau

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #239 on: January 12, 2007, 06:36:58 PM »
DAY 3 FOR ME..

Congrats to Eric on his 3d Day - Day 3 for me, too - having an awful time fighting the urge to run into a smoked-filled bar - all this fresh air getting into my lungs is nauseating! Well, truth be told its not bad, the Chantix seems to work pretty well.  I've been monitoring my blood pressure and this evening it was 135/63 - so a little high on the systolic, good on the diastolic.  On Day One, it was 118/73 -

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #240 on: January 12, 2007, 06:39:15 PM »
All smokers are the knowing or inadvertant followers of the Horned One, the Beast, the Name that Dare Not be Spoken... and on and on and on.


I like following the Beast.

You can see his butt.

And he's got a sweet ass.   :D
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #241 on: January 12, 2007, 08:21:36 PM »
I think the main thing to consider here is that everyone knows that smoking is bad for them anyone who doesn't know that must be living under a rock.  It's important to remember that smokers know this and they are making an informed judgement about if they smoke or not.  I smoke myself but i'm all for the ban in public places coming into the UK in the summer I don't see why any non-smoker should be subjected to my second hand smoke. 

I've tried to quit a few times and could go comfortably without any cigarettes as long as alcohol isn't involved! I seem to associate drinking with smoking now and it's pretty much the only time I do smoke.  Alcohol does lower will power of course but the fact of the matter is I still enjoy smoking i'll be honest!  And i'll continue to have a smoke with a drink until I don't enjoy it anymore i'm not an idiot though im making an informed decision.

Without wishing to sound like a salesman anyone thinking about quitting should consider reading Allen Carr's easy way to quit smoking book.  He basically argues that the physical addiction to nicotine only lasts 3 days and everything else is physcological i've read the book and it's quite interesting it's worked for a hell of a lot of people as well.
Diagnosed 11/05

"Life is too important to be taken seriously" Oscar Wilde

Offline Ann

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #242 on: January 12, 2007, 08:51:40 PM »

Without wishing to sound like a salesman anyone thinking about quitting should consider reading Allen Carr's easy way to quit smoking book.  He basically argues that the physical addiction to nicotine only lasts 3 days and everything else is physcological i've read the book and it's quite interesting it's worked for a hell of a lot of people as well.

I tried to read Carr's book a couple years ago. Trouble was, it put me to sleep everytime. Still, I suppose it worked in that while I was asleep, I couldn't smoke. Carr died of lung cancer this past summer. ::)

I'm starting to come around to the idea of public bans on smoking. Every time I've tried to quit, it was the smell of other people smoking that quashed my will-power. Maybe I'll stand a better chance if I can go out and not end up craving from smelling someone light up.

Ann
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Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #243 on: January 12, 2007, 08:59:56 PM »
That's what i'm thinking might happen with me the craving starts as soon as i see someone smoking in a pub or bar although a lot of places are setting up there own designated smoking areas outside.  Aparantly in Ireland where the bans been in place for a while these smoking areas are little social gatherings!  Of course the downside of this ban is pubs etc instead of smelling like smoke smell of peoples armpits and other bodily odours, nice.
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Offline Ann

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #244 on: January 12, 2007, 09:01:58 PM »
Of course the downside of this ban is pubs etc instead of smelling like smoke smell of peoples armpits and other bodily odours, nice.

LOL... I think that's also a downside of having a new and improved sense of smell after quitting. Ewww! ;D

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #245 on: January 12, 2007, 09:03:23 PM »
I have a strong libertarian streak in me (is anyone really surprised by this?), and I'm generally extremely uncomfortable with the idea of banning smoking in public places... the whole idea of the nanny state is one that rubs me the wrong way.
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Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #246 on: January 12, 2007, 09:09:29 PM »
the whole idea of the nanny state is one that rubs me the wrong way.

No I do agree with you there, it must be fun living in America I've seen Fox News! if I watched that channel all the time I'd think the end of the world would be imminent!  The reason I agree with the smoking ban is because of the effects of passive smoking on people who don't ask to be subjected to it.
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Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #247 on: January 12, 2007, 09:12:10 PM »
The reason I agree with the smoking ban is because of the effects of passive smoking on people who don't ask to be subjected to it.

I get all of my news from bbc.co.uk.  I don't watch the 24 hour news networks.

With the exception of the people who work in bars... I have to ask myself... are non-smokers who frequent bars to such a degree that their lung health is endangered really all that concerned about their health in general? 
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Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #248 on: January 12, 2007, 09:17:56 PM »
haha that's actually a really good point, you can't argue against that!  Alcohol is a nice taxable drug though.....
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Offline aupointillimite

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Re: Smokers
« Reply #249 on: January 12, 2007, 09:20:51 PM »
You're completely correct... and one that is responsible for physical damage to not only the alcoholic... but in terms of emotional, psychological, and monetary damage to others around him or her.

If we were truly serious about the "public health," it would be the first on the list of Things to Ban.

Yet we don't. 

Interesting. 
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