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Author Topic: AIDSMEDS Family Values  (Read 23238 times)

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Offline Sdgirl

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AIDSMEDS Family Values
« on: January 03, 2007, 10:08:39 PM »
I can’t believe what this place has become.  You preach “family” and all you do is prey on the weak and use your power and your own personal opinions and agendas to make people feel “less than” as if YOU were “all that”.

I’ve been gone, but not out of the loop.  I made a conscience choice to leave because of all of the bullshit that goes on here.  You have run people off with your judgmental comments, and then sit back and ask things like “where’s Jonathan been”  I mean come fucking on?  Why would any of us with a heart, integrity and common sense want to be in a place like this?

I am writing this post because of what you have chosen to do to Eldon.  Your choice to usurp your power on someone like him, make him out to be someone YOU KNOW he isn’t, knowing full well his intentions are good is deplorable!  What kind of people are you?

Are you so worried about what television you should buy or the damn next YOUTUBE video that you can’t see a person who is reaching out, trying to make a difference in the only way he knows how?  My God people give it a break!

When someone does post a thread that has some substance, all the responses from members are turned around to make it all about them instead of helping the original poster.  And before you respond to that, NO, your entire life story is NOT going to give that person insight on where to go or what to do next.  Examples are great, but making it all about you is just fucking selfish, like the majority of the people on this site are.

It took a lot to bring me back here to actually post a thread.  Oh don’t get me wrong, I’ve wanted to respond to the bullshit plenty of times but it just wasn’t worth it.  But this time, it’s personal.  Personal like the way you have chosen to “lynch” Eldon and I had to say something.  Get over yourselves people.  No ones left out, we all have issues other than our HIV status.  Step away from the computer and take a good look at yourself in the mirror and when you can say you’re perfect, then take another look…………..none of us are.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.  Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.  It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.  We ask ourselves.."Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?  Actually, who are you not to be?"

Offline AlanBama

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 10:21:09 PM »
Hi Lisa,

Yours is one of the voices I have missed greatly here.   You're right, it's not what it used to be.   Some of us are just very tired these days.....

I'm glad to see you back, whatever the reason.

Love & hugs,

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Life

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 10:25:24 PM »
Lisa, I miss you to.......

Love

Offline Tucsonwoody

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 10:35:26 PM »
I am pretty new to Aidsmeds and still learning about the different personalities that post here.

But so far I can see some merit in both sides in the Eldon postings issue and I think Eldon has acknowledged he sees the other point of view as well.  I do think that some of the comments about his posts were more harsh then I'd hope to see in a place where I thought support was one of the major goals. However I think what I have seen is when the topic of supporting someone who is in real emotional or physical distress, everyone here pulls together to help that person.

I certainly agree it's important to "Step away from the computer and take a good look at yourself in the mirror and when you can say you’re perfect, then take another look…………..none of us are." 

It's too bad you haven't seen any improvement in things since your last post similar to this in August, maybe you'll have better luck this time by bringing your feelings to our attention again.  I hope so.

Edited to make sure everyone knows Eldon is not something to be managed - thanks MTD.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 11:00:36 PM by Tucsonwoody »
And I wished for guidance, and I wished for peace
I could see the lightning; somewhere in the east
And I wished for affection, and I wished for calm
As I lay there - Nervous in the light of dawn

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2007, 10:49:53 PM »
But so far I can see some merit in both sides in the Eldon issue

Funny, I thought Eldon was a person, not a mere "issue" to be managed. Well I've certainly been enlightened.

Thanks Woody! ;)

MtD

Offline lydgate

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2007, 10:58:09 PM »
"Why would any of us with a heart, integrity and common sense want to be in a place like this?"

Ah, right. No judgementalist attitude in that sentence.

There are many reasons why people with those qualities would want to be "in a place like this."

If you want me to take your criticisms seriously, I suggest cutting back on the hyperbole.

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2007, 12:02:36 AM »
Are you so worried about what television you should buy or the damn next YOUTUBE video that you can’t see a person who is reaching out, trying to make a difference in the only way he knows how? 

Hi Lisa. Some questions for you. If this site was the ONLY way he "knew how" to make a difference, that certainly brings us to interesting questions e.g., has he not heard of local ASO's??  Only a small percentage of members here live in Florida   :-\ Anyway, it wasn't cool that important questions (posts) from other (sometimes new) members were drifting to the bottom of the screen - Forum etiquette tells us not to create a new thread for every little brain blip and he is aware of this now that the Mods spelled it out. He said he's not going to discuss the fundraising thing here ever again (He is aware of the consensus on this issue as well as several other issues now --thank heavens) - That's not the same thing as us enacting a town ordinance against him nor him being run out of town. No. Nothing of the sort. The one person I recall being run out (well, no actually, this person bowed out if my memory is intact) is Aldous Orwell - and come on, even the nicest person here's gotta admit Aldous Orwell was a whole heap of trouble. To Eldon: Apologies for speaking of you in past tense: It's not my intention for this to sound like the military song 'taps' nor is it my intention to compare you to Aldous Orwell. I'm just trying to say that we don't run people out of town, but some people seem to think we do. Do we? I don't think so. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

Edited: Changed 'general consensus' to 'consensus' (redundant) ... Also, doesn't the word usurp mean "to sponge" or something? I don't think we sponged off of Eldon!  :D
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 12:20:22 AM by allopathicholistic »

Offline Jeffreyj

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 12:39:54 AM »
Lisa,
I miss you. I miss the way you always speak your mind, and I hope you are back for good.
Hugs
Jeff
Positive since 1985

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 06:38:22 AM »
People often accuse me of being a bully.

"Matty," they say accusingly, "you're a bully."

Given what's happened (and more pointedly what's been allowed to happen) to Eldon over the last six weeks I feel confident when I say I'm anything but a bully.

An arsehole? Yes.

A misanthrope? Most certainly.

Intolerant? Without a doubt.

Prejudiced? Guilty as charged, your Honour.

A bully? Never.

You see, just as surely as this is not about me, it's not really about Eldon either. Well, not directly. This whole affair is a simple case of schoolyard bullying and those of you who've taken vicious glee in beating up on someone who isn't really able to defend himself stand indicted. The shocking cruelty of "the Eldon issue" (as one member so crassly expressed it in another thread) shines through.

You've become the mean cheerleaders, people. Congratulations. Once you've bussed your trays, I expect to hear you retching in the girls toilets as you purge.

I mean that's your style, isn't it?

And why can't he defend himself? Because he never thought he'd have to defend himself against people who should, quite properly, be his friends and supporters. What's more, Eldon doesn't have enough bastard in him to be mean or aggressive.

Glib and snooty attacks leave Eldon bewildered. I mean, he knows you're being nasty to him, he just can't quite work out why. He's only ever tried to be helpful and nice. In that he stands head and shoulders above a significant proportion of us.

Matty the Damned included.

I've gotta say, I love this whole fiction that Eldon in some way has broken "the rules". That he's posted too many threads. You know, when he has a "brain blip". It's classic victimisation -- create an imagined offence and then take Eldon to task. Here's a news flash: you don't have to read his threads.

And heaven help us, if you can't scroll down past one of Eldon's efforts to the thread you're looking for, well you're a pretty sad case. No wonder you have to go whining to our rolled gold administration to protect you from the evil Eldon.

And so what if Eldon posts something inane or anodyne in one of your terribly important threads? So what if he has naff graphics in his offerings or bolds the first line of his contributions? Does it really frigging matter? Like anyone really gives a shit about your last set of results or that your meth addled man slut of a partner has a craw full of thrush. You can always put Eldon on ignore. He won't care. Shit, the fucker won't even know you've done it.

If the worst thing that's happened to you this week is that you've been irritated by Eldon, then I'd suggest you consider this to be a good week. If there's any justice, you won't have many more.

Sure, Eldon's advice is often confuzzled or even trite, but it's offered with a kind heart and noble intentions. And, before you say it -- no, the road to hell isn't paved with good intentions. It's littered with the wormy carcasses of spineless bullies.

Draw from that what you will.

The nasty reality is that Eldon hasn't done anything wrong, other than be the easiest target for a nest of low rent thugs to kick about. He's the awkward kid that most of you were, and now you've scented an opportunity to redress some perceived injustice you just can't resist.

It's easy to score cheap points off someone like Eldon. It's not very intelligent, but it's very easy. On that basis, what's happened to Eldon (and others before him) should come as no surprise.

At this point I'm tempted to list those who I see as the main offenders in this tacky and gormless episode. You're not worth it. Rather, I'd like to take the time to acknowledge some of the people who've stood by our Eldon in this his time of need and trial.

Lisa (SDGirl), Little Steve, Jaser (Mouse), Queen Akasha - just to name a few. Matty the Damned has noticed your bravery. I know there are others and you have similarly done yourselves proud.

But most of all, Eldon -- you keep doing what you're doing babe. You know you're appreciated by those who matter.

With love,

MtD

Offline NycJoe

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 07:13:28 AM »
Now THIS is the most refreshing post I have seen in a while..hense why I rarely post.  Here Here!  NycJoe

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2007, 07:39:46 AM »
I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Eldon. I have disagreed with his style and substance on many occasion. That being said, I have always defended his, or anyone else's right to say whatever they want.

In the end it is not about us, and I agree, foe and supporter, and those who were using Eldon for a cheap joke should examine their motives. Me included.

Again I apologize Eldon...maybe your message got through after all.

Hal


Offline bocker3

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 08:39:39 AM »
Interesting....  The point of this thread is to voice displeasure about how an AIDSMEDS member has been treated badly by others.  And how is it done -- by treating other AIDSMEDS members badly!  Oh, not by name, granted, but in sweeping generalities.  Is that better??  Not from where I sit.  I am NOT disagreeing with the intent of this thread, merely the style.  When vitriol is used to make a point, I am afraid the point is usually lost.  The term "Family Values" should be a positive thing, but just like when used by religious right as a way to demonize homosexuals, I'm afraid it is being used in this thread to demonize everyone who disagrees with the posters.  I guess in many ways we are more like a family than we may actually think!

Again, I am making no statement as to the merits of how Eldon has been treated -- I have my own opinions and will continue to read his posts or not as always, what I am commenting on is that the whole "eye for an eye" mentality seen here is not at all helpful and does nothing to help others "see your side".

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 08:54:33 AM »
Again, I am making no statement as to the merits of how Eldon has been treated

Well Mike, that's the problem. You're prepared to leave poor Eldon to swing in the breeze with nary a word offered in his defence. The fact that something has gone amiss in this whole process is revealed by the fact that you bothered to post.

That you've posted in this thread is a small credit in your favour.

There is a right and a wrong here. Eldon has been treated wrongly and Lisa has acted rightly in speaking out against an injustice.

Rather than get all prissy about this, let's just extend the hand of friendship to Eldon. Fuck knows he's done it for the rest of us.

MtD

Offline bocker3

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2007, 09:11:50 AM »
MtD,

I purposely avoided "defending" Eldon, because I think the best way to offer him friendship is to let this whole unpleasant exchange die.  I don't always agree with the moderators or other members, but I would not want to be a moderator (and think they are doing the best they can) and I don't agree with all people outside of these forums either - just because we have a common virus does not mean we have a common mind.

The point I was trying to make, is that the best way to get people to maybe consider looking at something from a different viewpoint is to make your point logically and calmly (you can still have passion -- just channel it to your points).  Attacking people for their thoughts (and thoughts are all that are posted here) just puts them on the defensive and most often closes their minds to your point of view.  Yes, people got a bit nasty toward Eldon and that is not right -- Calling someone on it can be appropriate, if done appropriately -- but giving nasty back doesn't solve anything. 

That is all I was trying to say.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline DanielMark

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2007, 10:09:08 AM »
Interesting....  The point of this thread is to voice displeasure about how an AIDSMEDS member has been treated badly by others.  And how is it done -- by treating other AIDSMEDS members badly!  Oh, not by name, granted, but in sweeping generalities.  Is that better??  Not from where I sit.

In the real world I believe that's called hypocrisy Mike, but then the Internet is  rife with opinion, double standards, misinformation and assumptions in place of facts.

As for family values, even in genetic families not everyone genuinely likes everyone else. That’s reality. There is a handful of folks here I feel like getting to know better, and am. I like it that way. I make no room in my life for head gamers, manipulators, or control freaks. I pretend for no one. I refuse to sell my soul to appease anyone.

I try to keep an open mind in life, just not so open that my brain falls out. I also monitor what I feed it. That's my  responsibility.

Life and let live, I say.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2007, 10:13:08 AM »
Hmmmmmmmmm....

I cant decide how to respond to this.

1.  Lisa, ive missed you as well, but if you want change come back more often.  (this is a great example of why we need you)

2.  Eldon, you know I love ya kid, youre a quirky sonuvabitch but you do have style.   I've taken my shots but I take them at everyone, Im just in it for the laugh most of the time.  So I will not apologize for what I've put in your posts, any humor from me was about the post not about you and I stand behind that.  I have NO issues with you.  I will however apologize for not standing up more in your defense.  I did it a few times but should have been more vigorous with my voice and maybe should have found some humorous graphics to bitch slap others who vilify others.  I tend to stay out of those things however.  (I still would like to see more from the heart!  Which, by the way, you HAVE been doing!!!!)

3.  I agree with matty about the types of posts and how often people post on here.  Just because some of you dont agree with what he has to say doesnt mean he shouldn't post.  I post all kinds of nonsensical shit on here ALL THE TIME!  This place is for doing that.

4.  Ive said it before Eldon and I will say it again... you post what you need to post.  And in your style.

5.  All this being said, I will still continue to be me as I expect Eldon and others to still continue to be themselves.  I am still going to lighten everything up with humor.  It is how I get through life.  So BE FOREWARNED if I can make myself laugh by inserting the mostly appropriate jokes in the mostly appropriate places I will do so.

And to anyone who doesnt like it.....


LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2007, 10:15:00 AM »
I think Eldon has acknowledged he sees the other point of view as well. 

Yes Tucson, Eldon has. Eldon has told me privately he is working on being less long-winded. And once again Matty expresses displeasure with the AIDSMeds Moderators - how predictable. Thumbs down to your armchair psychoanalyses Matty. You could have intervened but you did not. Nobody is saying that Eldon is not welcome here!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 10:24:42 AM by allopathicholistic »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2007, 10:26:12 AM »
Yes Tucson, Eldon has. He has told me privately he is working on being less long-winded. And once again Matty expresses displeasure with the AIDSMeds Moderators - how predictable. Thumbs down to your armchair psychology Matty. You could have intervened but you did not

Oh Alex! Silly boy! Run along dear - the grownups are talking. ;)

Let us have no more nastiness. Eldon's worth is well proved. He like all of us has his faults, but unlike many of us, his virtues far exceed his vices. This place is all the better for Eldon's participation.

I think we can say (without fear of contradiction) that open season on Eldon is officially closed.

MtD

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2007, 10:29:12 AM »
Oh and Eldon if your reading this.... a big fat

to you and your handshake of DOOM!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Sdgirl

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2007, 10:36:22 AM »
For Alex - the definition of USURP:

Definitions of usurp:


verb:   take the place of
Example: "Gloom had usurped mirth at the party after the news of the terrorist act broke"

verb:   seize and take control without authority and possibly with force; take as one's right or possession
Example: "He usurped my rights"
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.  Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.  It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.  We ask ourselves.."Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?  Actually, who are you not to be?"

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2007, 12:33:24 PM »
What the hell have I missed again?  Every time there's a snit about something I'm clueless.  What happened to Eldon that was so terrible? 

As one who posts nonsense a lot, in response to Eldon or anyone else, I don't acknowledge my posts as attacks against him (or anyone else).   As one who has taken issue with Eldon's use of words or generalizations I don't remember being disrespectful, just disagreeing.  I admit to having a satirical tone sometimes but it is not meant maliciously and I am sorry if anything I've written appears to be malicious or mean. 

I know this is stupid but I really hate to use emoticons but so many netfolks have to have smileys in order to determine the intent.  My contention is humans have been communicating in writing for thousands of years and didn't need smileys before now.  Besides, just making a nasty statement and sticking a  :) next to it doesn't decrease the nastiness.  OK, sorry I got off-topic.

So what are "we" to do about Eldon?  As far as I'm concerned he can post as often as he likes and I will or will not read his posts based on the same rules I use to read any post: if it's of interest to me.

Boo
P.S. So will someone please PM me with a link to the thread(s) that caused this concern to be verbalized?

P.P.S.  Why is this posted in the Living with section? 
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline David_CA

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2007, 01:48:45 PM »
I'm with Boo on this.  I must have missed something, which is surprising as often as I read the forums.  Lisa, you've been one of my favorite posters here with your humor, wit, and style and I've missed your postings.  What I don't understand is that why wait 'til the bullshit is this deep to post.  I seem to remember you coming clean with your opinions pretty early on in a heated post.  I personally don't have a problem with Eldon, although I wish he'd start posts in 'Off Topic' more often, but his replies to others' posts are generally polite, positive, and supportive. 

Maybe Eldon has rubbed a few sensitive nerves with some of his initiated posts, and he does have a LOT of posts.  I think it's safe to say that most of us have done that.  Hell, Lisa, this post is more negative than most I've read lately, which is really surprising, considering your general style.  He's done nothing to bother me, and I'm really surprised that he's caused such an uproar.  I guess I need to go back and re-read his posts.  I have a feeling that I'll see a lot or repetition and long-windedness, but who gives a crap... remember that 'back' button and you're all set to move on. 

I keep hearing about how the forums have changed for the worse.  I've never thought that in the 10 months I've been here.  I've seen ups and downs, but that's life.  I'd be hesitant to generalize too much about how bad it's gotten.  I've actually been impressed with a lot of the 'new blood' here, while still enjoying the old standbys.  I've had a few minor disagreements with a few folks here, but fortunately we were mature and polite enough to keep it civil when in public and in PM's.  After every incident, I feel I've learned more about that person and respect them even more.  Joe (killfoile) is one in particular.  After several PM's of disagreement, I realize how similar we both are, but with different experiences and am glad to know him.

If there's a really crappy show on tv, I don't watch it.  If there's a commercial that annoys the hell out of me, I change channels while it's on.  If I start reading a post that doesn't interest me, I either skim a bit more to see if I do get interested, else I click 'Back' and move on to something else.  Why don't we all apply the same ideas to posts that don't interest us?  It'd go a long way towards less negativity.

The YouTubes, silly sex postings, 'what ____ should I buy, etc. are fine.  They are, after all, 'Off Topic'.  That's the kind of stuff friends talk about, at least my friends do.  It keeps things light, humorous, and from getting oppressive with HIV.  I've enjoyed this site, with a very few exceptions, and do what I can to make it a good place.  I don't generally rudely criticize, I offer what help I can, I ask questions when I have them, and I participate in the 'Off Topic' postings.  Otherwise, why would this HIV+ queer with "...a heart, integrity and common sense ..." want to be here?

David
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 04:44:23 PM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
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10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
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05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
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02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
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01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
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Offline manchesteruk

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2007, 02:33:23 PM »
This thread is a perfect example of how to make a mountain out of a mole hill, something this place is excellent at doing!
Diagnosed 11/05

"Life is too important to be taken seriously" Oscar Wilde

Offline lydgate

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2007, 02:50:21 PM »
This thread is a perfect example of how to make a mountain out of a mole hill, something this place is excellent at doing!

Exactly.

But in the metamorphosis from molehill to mountain a lot of stupid and ugly things get said. Best to ignore them, most of the time. But sometimes it's better to grit one's teeth, groan a bit, and respond to the hyperbole and venom and sanctimonious silliness being spouted in the name of righteous justice.

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2007, 02:58:58 PM »
But in the metamorphosis from molehill to mountain a lot of stupid and ugly things get said. Best to ignore them, most of the time. But sometimes it's better to grit one's teeth, groan a bit, and respond to the hyperbole and venom and sanctimonious silliness being spouted in the name of righteous justice.


Not to mention pretentious verbosity, eh Jay?

MtD

Offline pozguy75

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2007, 03:07:22 PM »
Okay, I am a bit late in responding...but here is my take.

Sure Eldon posts things that may appear to some of us as odd, inconsistent, or out of place...but here's the rub...this is supposed to be a safe environment where we are allowed to share our feelings, thoughts, opinions. And if Eldon isn't allowed to share his and feel safe...what makes us think others, especially newbies or people stumbling on this site will feel when they see us bickering and arguing and what-not amongst ourselves.

I personally have no issue with Eldon, never have...I think Eldon is a nice guy without malice...and frankly some of the things said really hurt.

You know, I have to this realization: If it doesn't cause the death of someone, or the world to end, or end up causing a war...shake it off and move on. Life is too short to get riled up...if you violently disagree with a post...and I am heeding my own advice here, take a moment or two, a break, walk away...and come back with a cooler head. We all get caught in the moment and I know from my own experience we say things that are down right hurtful and mean...I know, I have done it! I am not proud of it, and I apologize to you all for it...

Just me speaking here...but let's move on...shake it off...we are for each other, cause with out each other, there is no forum...it takes all of us to be here, including our foibles and our eccentricities, and Eldon is no different...

Just my take...and take it for what its worth, lets not read anything into this...it just is. And what hurts most here...is, the fact that there is this much negativity...I mean we are all positive right?? (Sorry...couldn't resist...bad pun!)

I love you all because of your uniqueness and your individuality! And Eldon is a bit more unique sometimes...
Dx 2005
ATRIPLA

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2007, 03:31:43 PM »

You know, I have come to this realization: If it doesn't cause the death of someone, or the world to end, or end up causing a war...shake it off and move on. Life is too short to get riled up...if you violently disagree with a post...and I am heeding my own advice here, take a moment or two, a break, walk away...and come back with a cooler head. We all get caught in the moment and I know from my own experience we say things that are down right hurtful and mean...I know, I have done it! I am not proud of it, and I apologize to you all for it...


 Agreed and something I will attempt to heed from this day forward...

 My reasons being outside this forum and if not wanting to share them.. Well, I shouldn't have said anything.   I will not apologize and will keep my reasons for not doing so to myself.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline jack

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2007, 04:26:05 PM »
who the fuck is Eldon and what the fukc did he do? Was he in Toronto?

Offline anniebc

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2007, 04:36:40 PM »
I decided to post here for two reasons:

1..To say I was glad to see Lisa posting again but I think it's sad that it took something like this to bring her back, but now she is back I hope she stays around for awhile...and

2.. To give my support to Eldon a man who has never said a bad word to anyone.  

I don't normally get involved with public "cat fights".. if I have a disagreement with anyone I will do it through PM's.

The reason I chose to do it this way, and have been doing it this way for nearly 4 years is because I find it easier to  debate, argue, get to know and understand where that other person is coming from without too many people getting in the way and telling us how we should react, and as those who have been through these debates with me will know we haven't always ended up agreeing but we have always ended up agreeing to disagree..no harm done, and because I choose to do it this way I have been able to keep a valued friend and support giver.

We don't have to like or agree with everything that is said here, hell, we don't even have to like the person involved..but we do have to remember that every family member here deserves respect and deserves to be heard.

Quote
Just me speaking here...but let's move on...shake it off...we are for each other, cause with out each other, there is no forum...it takes all of us to be here, including our foibles and our eccentricities, and Eldon is no different...

Well said Pozguy.

Hugs
Jan :-*

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Offline lydgate

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2007, 06:36:23 PM »
Ignoring what seems to be an obvious flamebait in #24, let me just get down to business. But let me say at the outset that this post, or the impulse behind this post, has been on my mind for many months now, and is not written out of momentary catfighting excitedness.

Jonathan wrote, in a notorious episode that took place on the forums last year: “I call bullshit.” (And as I recall, Lisa seconded him right away.) This time I’m calling bullshit – but not bullshit exactly but something I think that is far worse: Matty’s persistent pernicious rancidity. (If that’s pretentious verbosity, so be it.)

First. I was appalled by Matty wrote in his stirring “defence” of  Eldon. If I were Eldon, I’d be a lot more mortified by what Matty wrote than any supposed “lynching” that had taken place. The amount of condescension displayed is astounding. These attacks are supposed to leave Eldon “bewildered.” He knows something nasty is going on “he just can’t quite figure out why.” Oh, and Eldon is supposed to be so obtuse that if you put him on ignore, “Shit, the fucker won’t even know you’ve done it.” This is Matty’s viciousness at its purest and in my opinion tantamount to a personal attack that should warrant banning.

Then there are all the adjectives. In defending Eldon against the mob of putative Eldon-baiters and Eldon-haters (talk about classic fantasy victimization and imaginary offences!) his graphics are called “naff.” So what, we are asked, if there “inane” posts. Then Eldon’s advice is often “confuzzled or even trite.” Finally, it’s easy for all of “us” (whoever we may be) “to score cheap points off someone like Eldon.” The implication is clear: Eldon’s stupid (I don’t mean you Eldon, I mean Matty’s vicious caricature of you); but his intentions are good, and therefore noble Matty rushes to the rescue (Eldon “isn’t really able to defend himself”). Rescue! With friends like these…

Second. It seems impossible for Matty to write without letting forth a stream of mean-spirited insults. JUST from this one post, many (or some or all or most, it isn’t clear) forum members are (1) schoolyard bullies, (2) mean cheerleaders who retch and purge, (3) spineless bullies, (4) people who can’t resist an easy target. I’m pretentiously verbose (true enough sometimes, but hardly a rebuttal). Alex shouldn’t interrupt because the grownups are talking (followed by an emoticon that’s meant to excuse rudeness masquerading as wit). The moderators are “rolled gold” administrators (usually snidely referred to as Goderators, and one in particular once referred to as someone who does nothing but “wipe the arses of the worried well.”) Go through the 1731 messages of Matty’s posts (18 pages) if you want to learn the art of hurtful vengeful vituperation.

Why is this OK? Why has this been tolerated? Partly, I think, because Matty proclaims himself to be a misanthropic intolerant prejudiced arsehole. Oh that Matty, he’s a character we think (or are supposed to think). He’s so honest, about himself too. I call MAJOR rancid bullshit on this. Admitting that you’re a scumbag doesn’t excuse your scumbag behavior. And couching your remarks in supposedly witty language doesn’t excuse the rancidity either – it’s either a dim variant of queeny bitchiness or strikes one note and one note only: fuck-off-world fuck-off-world fuck-off-world I’m Matty the Damned and so there! I don’t engage in discussions and civil arguments – that’s so banal!

It’s like the problem of evil. (A) God is all-knowing and all-powerful. (B) God is kind and just. (C) There is evil and suffering in this world. You can have (A) and (B), you can have (A) and (C), you can have (B) and (C) – but you can’t really have (A), (B), and (C) together, without some major finagling. It’s what the philosophers call an inconsistent triad. (More verbosity, yes).

I’m pretty clear that Matty’s presence on these forums presents another inconsistent triad: (A) I want to be on and contribute to the forums. (B) The forums have standards of behavior, decency, absence of malice, eschewing insults, and don’t tolerate viciousness. (C) I want to behave as badly as I want and get away with it.

This is just crap. Can’t have all three at once. I have felt this way for months.

Third. The point about cheerleaders. At the end of his main post in this thread Matty would seem to appoint himself as a sort of head anti-cheerleader cheerleader. By naming four people he admires. MtD HAS noticed their bravery. They’ve done themselves proud. Finally, Eldon is appreciated “by those who matter” – that is, Matty himself and those he’s chosen to elect into his club. If this isn’t junior high rubbish I don’t know what is.

Finally, a direct address to Matty himself: unlike you, Matty, I’m a tolerant man. But, to quote Scott Fitzgerald: “And, after boasting this way of my tolerance, I come to the admission that it has a limit. Conduct may be founded on the hard rock or the wet marshes but after a certain point I don't care what it's founded on.” You’ve tested toleration’s limits, no matter what else is going on with you.

I dislike what is known in journalism as “knocking copy”; it keeps adrenaline levels high artificially for a bit (which explains why, I suppose, why some people are temperamentally inclined to ranting and cussing and general histrionics) and then you feel exhausted. But something needed to be said, I think, and said publicly. I do not think MtD's presence on these forums is doing the forums any good at all. Of the dozens, if not hundreds, of people I've encountered here, he's the only person I've felt that way about.

Jay
(who now wonders if he’ll be attacked or just dismissed as a longwinded bore)
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Razorbill

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2007, 06:50:01 PM »
One of the best things written on this forum for a while.  Thank you Jay.
   It is clear while MTD was off not feeling well, these forums settled into a more balanced, fun place to be.  He is back and here we are defending and posting.  It's poisonous posting and meanspiritedness we don't need.  I will repeat myself from a post a while back - it surpasses understanding why this person is allowed to continue here.  I publically call upon the moderators to consider MTD's contribution and influence on these forums and do what they think is best.
Ernie

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2007, 06:56:38 PM »
I don't normally get involved with public "cat fights".. if I have a disagreement with anyone I will do it through PM's.

Jan :-*

I agree with Jan. If you have major issues with someone work it out through PM. You don't really need an audience.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2007, 06:58:06 PM »
There seem to be more issues at play in this thread than simply Eldon.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline lydgate

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2007, 07:38:03 PM »
I agree with Jan. If you have major issues with someone work it out through PM. You don't really need an audience.

I have to disagree on this point, Ford and Jan. Because it's not simply about "working through" a misunderstanding or apologizing for something said in heat or one quibble or three. It's a bigger issue than that. That's why I said that what I had to say needed to be said publicly.

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2007, 07:39:22 PM »
Thankyou Jay,

For stating what so many of us feel, I received a private message from someone, who shall remain anonymous. The message simply said:

"And just step around those steaming cowpies that continue to be dropped in our paths.


Throughout my 21 years plus of living with HIV, and then aids, I have learned over and over again to

"Step around" the crap that has been thrown my way. And throughout these past 21 plus years, I have also also managed to step into it, and even toss it, should the need arise.



There are people out there that are antagonistic, thatwill never change, and most likely neither will they.

I am not a great writer, it's often difficult to get my words down, But it doesn't surprise me the MTD. would involve himself in this thread, after his absence. This is what he does best. He also attempted this in the other "Eldon thread"... Once again just sidestep the steamy cowpies"


Just my thoughts-------Ray


By the way ,tonight, we will go to sleep with HIV, and tomorrow we will wake up with, thats never going to change, That is one of the certainties in this life.


As far as Eldon Goes,


Eldon keep it simple.... Or you will continue to lose a lot of readership.


« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 09:01:53 PM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2007, 07:46:51 PM »
Although I've always had a soft spot (in my skull) for Matty I would be dishonest if I disagreed with Jay's point about the "backhanded compliments" (my words, my quotes...) MtD paid to Eldon.  If those words had been written for my benefit I'd have a serious and probably heated discussion with my defender.

As philly67 observed, however, the issue is supposed to be Eldon.  I'm somewhat surprised Eldon hasn't posted to this thread but maybe he doesn't want to or hasn't seen it,  or whatever.

Maybe this thread should shrivel on the vine?  I'll go first!

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2007, 07:48:56 PM »
Eldon keep it simple.... Or you will continue to lose a lot of readership.

Hi Ray - Eldon told me he is working things out. I also want to say many new members don't know how to use the ignore function and if they don't see their post on page 1 they might not know a page 2 exists

Offline Just John

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2007, 07:50:24 PM »
Some valid and heartfelt comments have been made here, but I think that now is the time for some long deep breaths and possibly the use of the ignore button?
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.

Offline Iggy

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2007, 08:22:46 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 11:42:17 PM by Iggy »

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2007, 08:50:05 PM »
Great!  Now we are on character assassination by proxy. BTW a friend of mine sent me a note from this guy who told them that someone doesn't like you anymore.





The Private message had absolutely nothing to do with MTD.. And was recieved before MTD ever posted. Lets make that clear.
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline Iggy

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2007, 08:54:16 PM »
.


« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 11:43:34 PM by Iggy »

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2007, 08:57:54 PM »
Then my apologies for misunderstanding, however take a look at the format of your post, right after you announce a pm from someone, the rest goes in bold and seems all related to the "pm" you received from another.







The entire post in bold was a tecnical error! the only thing I wanted to highlight was the cow pie quote, but somehow everything turned bold at that point forward.


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline Iggy

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2007, 08:59:56 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 11:41:56 PM by Iggy »

Offline Mike89406

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2007, 09:25:08 PM »
Let me just chime in here. First of all not all people need Aids Meds for support including myself (I see a lot of comments reffering to finding support on this forum). There are support groups with HIV POZ people around the country where  you can interact with other POZ people and get real support.

Now I realize that there are some that live in the middle of nowhere and dont have access to resources I'm not talking negative about this forum in that respect. If you have a State health office they can usually refer you to a group closest if posible or a another regional health office where you can get the access to these support groups. Example I loved 50 miles from the nearest support group in Maryland once and there was one or two people willing to give me a ride to this group if I needed and taxi fare coverage to the meetings if I was closer.

There are people that depend on this as a support as well. My only point was that If you can meet some people face to face you can get invaluable knowledge, and extra support.


 I see this board as an information source with POZ people that can direct you what to do in situations that are difficult, or just advice and past experiance with HIV/AIDS to people going through the same thing that is just my opinion.

Secondly I know this post was to defend from Sdgirl. Eldon initially however the motive may have been. This has become a pissing contest in some regards. Why are people still telling Eldon what they don't like about his posts? In my opinion if I dont want to read them then I wont all I see is constant compalining about Eldon this and that.

I happen to think Eldon is very intelligent and offers uplifting comments to those who are down. If he had done something like offending people by name calling or other inexcusble acts I could understand. But don't try to explain to me why you dont like Elldons posts cause I've read a lot of the comments already.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 10:55:20 PM by Mike89406 »

Offline anniebc

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Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2007, 09:32:31 PM »
Hi Jay

I wasn't saying that's the way it should be done, I was just saying that's just the way I handle things if I had a problem with a member of the forum, although I admit I would like to see this happen a bit more often, then we wouldn't have to deal with the nastiness that comes with threads like this..I'm not good with anger or arguments, so maybe it's just me.

 I find it hard to comunicate with the original poster when so many people become involved..because as we have seen things can get off track and we lose sight of the concerns written by the original poster...I still believe that everyone has the right to be heard, if they want to do it publically or feel the need to do it publically I have no problems with that, it is after all, and this has been said many times, a public forum...we all have different way of dealing with problems or posts we feel uncomfortable with...you said what you had to say and you were entitled to do so..as is everyone here.

Hugs
Jan :-*



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Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Razorbill

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  • Posts: 622
Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2007, 09:38:03 PM »
LOL  I didn't realize this post had anything to do with Eldon.  I read the beginning yes.  I still don't believe it has anything to do with Eldon.  It's about MTD, it always is.  He always wants it to be.  And we have again provided him with great entertainment.  Nevertheless, flames need to be contained, reduced, then extinguished.
And let me make a practical comment about the ole ignore button.  If you put people on ignore, and they make a valid and important contribution to a thread - then you miss it, right?  And the responses to it will be useless perhaps.  It's called a thread for a reason.  Use of then ignore button is not a solution.  Civility and respect are the way to go. 

Offline allopathicholistic

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  • Posts: 3,258
Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2007, 11:32:22 PM »
This thread is a perfect example of how to make a mountain out of a mole hill, something this place is excellent at doing!

Thank you - He will likely come back, just with a different posting style ... Enough already

Offline qrky

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  • Posts: 25
Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2007, 12:59:23 AM »
Look, I've been here a week and I do have some intelligence.  I don't go so far as "ignore" but do regard posts with a "grain of salt".  So far I have met some good people, but you have this thread burning things up around Eldon.  I don't know him, I've read his posts, all I say is they're not my style.  I've never seen him be rude to anyone or any of that which might merit a thread around him to explain it.  Otherwise, this thing needs to be moved elsewhere cause I have a high tolerance and it's putting me off.   People see this shit and it becomes a drama board and frankly speaking for myself I do not need it.  Eldon has never been anything but nice to me and so what the fuck if his style isn't mine?  I can deal.  If *I* were Eldon you wouldn't believe the shit I would post as a fuck you all.  So stop bitching , yeah we're all in the same sinking boat but some of us just jumped on thinking we were lucky not to miss the life rafts.  You're not just playing with Eldon -- who I think is a good person doing what he can and what he thinks right - yer creating an environment where newbies like us walk in numb and shellshocked as is to a bar-room brawl.  If you think people don't scan new threads looking anything, something, you are wrong.  Stop the shit, accept the kid (I call everyone kids until they spank me) for who he is an just fukin deal.  We're all kinda fucked here -- so lets not fuck that up.

-doug

Offline skeebo1969

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  • Posts: 5,705
Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2007, 01:08:29 AM »
  We're all kinda fucked here -- so lets not fuck that up.

-doug

  Sorry to hear your fucked... just don't include me in it.


  So stop bitching , yeah we're all in the same sinking boat but some of us just jumped on thinking we were lucky not to miss the life rafts.  
-doug

Even on my worst days (this being one), my boats not sinking the motor just ain't running.

  Welcome to the forums by the way...  Nice to meet you ;)

  Thomas
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Queen Tokelove

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  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: AIDSMEDS Family Values
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2007, 01:47:00 AM »
There seem to be more issues at play in this thread than simply Eldon.

Indeed!
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