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Author Topic: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?  (Read 14192 times)

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Offline mscaramelle

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Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2007, 04:12:16 PM »
Hi, are we still discussing this topic posted my milker?  I have been following along most of the discussion and also quite fascinated by the way this all works.  I also agree that this topic should be widely discussed as it is very important.  I'm new here, diagnosed HIV+ on Jan. 31/06.  I have been researching and looking for information (without becoming fanatical, I hope) ever since.  My first visit to my new doc was interesting and they wanted to talk about me going on medication right away.  I asked why, am I sick?   They said no.  They didn't even have my first test results done.   That spoke volumes to me so I immediately became stubborn.   Anyways my count was 414 and my VL - 1100.   A month later it was 383 and VL - 2600.   My next test would be 6 months later....about a month prior to the tests I started to take a probiotic and oregano oil (anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-everything)  Anyways, my test was 450 and my VL - 570.  They said I was a 'slow progressor'.  It looked like digression to me.

Anyways, I hate pills.  I really do.  I'll do whatever it takes to not have to take them, especially drugs!  I'm anxious to see my next test results now that I've added Virgin Coconut Oil to my regimen.  It tastes amazing, great for your entire body incl your immune system and it is said to be the next cure for AIDS....imagine what it can do then for HIV!  It apparently envelops the lipid virus (HIV, amongst all kinds of other viruses - do a Google search) and DESTROYS the virus.  The monolaurin (comes from the Lauric Acid) is the hero there.

Here's what I believe.  I believe the pro-biotic works because it replaces the good bacteria back in the intestines/colon.  There are studies (the ones we're not supposed to know about) showing that we may be attacking the virus in the secondary source, the bloodstream instead of the primary source, the colon, where it has a heyday feeding off protein.  I think THAT IS WHY you never get less than <50.   We measure it in the blood.   I also think the pharmaceutical companies are also having a heyday profiting from our fear and all the hype that goes with it.  Just today, I read on the POZ site about the ECGC found in Green Tea halting HIV.  I drink 3-4 cups of the herbal tea daily.  Then I went on to read that some DOCTOR said not to get too excited, they're trying to find a way to come up with a drug that will have the ECGC in it.  I guess I'll wait for the drug instead of getting it naturally in a cup of hot green tea!   I'm tired of these big pharma insulting our intelligence and for some reason, many infected allowing themselves to count on them for the answers. 

Anyways, I just had to get that all off my chest.  I share my diagnosis with so few people, but I don't want us to stop looking for the "other" information out there that supports natural remedies as an alternative.

Mscaramelle
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 04:16:38 PM by mscaramelle »

Offline mark86

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Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2007, 06:29:43 PM »
Hi there,

Not infected, girlfriend is - am reading like crazy about everything to do with HIV/AIDS. What do you think about Selenium supplemens.? From what i read, all HIV+ people become deficient in this and adding it to your diet may mak a difference. What do you think ?

Offline milker

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Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2007, 06:59:16 PM »
Hi mscaramelle & mark86,

i hate pills too, and that includes supplements. There has been many discussions in those forums about selenium and other supplements, you can just click on "search" and look  for selenium or green tea.

It is great that you enjoy the Coconut Oil. Be assured that every plant in the world, especially the ones that taste good, have been promising to cure aids, but until there is a study done with 2000+ people taking Coconut Oil for a couple of years without any other medication and seeing a dramatic slowdown of their disease with this, I'll stick with what has been proven to work for millions of people as of 2007. Even if I really hate pills, i'll take them when I'm told to do so by a doctor I trust and asking for their opinions to people having taken those drugs before me.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline megasept

  • Member
  • Posts: 478
  • Steven here...
Yeah, HIV for Dummies! Why not?
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2007, 12:01:55 PM »
That's a good explanation there, milker.  Well done!  I'd love to be able to figure out how to translate this type of explanation into something akin to the soldiers and generals story that I put up above...because I'd like to become adept at putting this process into an easily understood form that just about anybody can picture in their minds.  It's a bit easier for us because we are already familiar with the verbage of all this.  That's something for me to try to figure out, though any help from anyone would be welcomed.  I'd like to develop a form of explaining all this that got the steps right, but wasn't quite so "clinical".  I guess I'm saying that I am interested in developing something akin to HIV for Dummies- something that any high school (or even middle school) age kid could pick up and get really in the know about HIV without getting scared off by the terminology. 

I'm rambling a touch here, but that has been my idea for a bit here. 

You're not rambling, more musing. I have been thinking about something similar, more in the area of sex risks advice, kind of a linear tree that allow someone to pursue say "If I perform a blowjob, what are the risks to my health?", and follow a line with reasons, risks, and advice, that allow and individual to make informed decisions and involve partners in meaningful consent to this or that activity. Vanilla to offensively kinky. Value-free (except for one value, reducing the patient population of newly-infected) and a place where anyone could access accurate info without feeling uncomfortable, and without exposing their own proclivities/activities to anyone, because asking a question really denies privacy. I also envision this a place where an inexperienced or conservative person could happily cohabit the same realm with a kinky person, due to website architecture (don't have to read what "grosses" you out). I like writing and editing, for a purpose. Yeah, HIV for Dummies. How about ACTUALLY PROPOSING HIV FOR DUMMIES? The sales might be slow (Yuck! a book on disease), until you take into account organizational (make the drug companies but thousands of copies to donate to ASOs and schools) and donated copies, plus school use. If these things don't happen, nothing is communicated, or the material is overly-limited in scope:
1) information is readily available
2) information is understandable to any lay reader with a grade school education
3) information is packaged with humor and other attractive qualities
4) information is accurate, applies to the entire human population, and includes areas of reasonable dispute/inquiry, as well as consensus.
5) information that is practical and turns readers into confident educators (Each one, teach one).
6) advocates for a global, equal treatment, response. Advocates for equal responsibility of all, infected and non-infected. Rejects "education" through fear, "death sentence" approach.
 8)  -megasept

Offline milker

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Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2007, 02:04:42 PM »
Interesting idea

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2007, 01:17:27 PM »
My humble oppinion : not gone because we do have some cells who live up to 60 years (Yikes) , and therefore they are s.called latent reservoirs .
Any number under 50 even 1 is counting !
And for eliminating a bug from a latent reservoirs you need a completely new class of drugs    www.biotron.com.au
But , there is danger that flushing could provoke an uncontrolled expansion.
2 cc
                                                    Al
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline mike

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  • Posts: 30
Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2007, 09:39:11 PM »
this is interesting as i have often wondered if undetectable means zero, from a layman's point of view, it seems strange to be able to reduce viral load from hundreds of thousands or even millions down to less than 50 but nor eradicate it completely. What is so superhuman about these last 50 that makes them so persistent ?

i've formed my own opinion ( however wrong it may be ) that a great deal of people who have undetectable viral loads have completely eradicated the virus from the blood stream but obviously not the body and its reservoirs.

the confusion is similar to that of CD4 counts, we all place such importance on CD4 counts, logically, so i was a bit humbled when i discovered that the blood only accounts for 2 % of CD4 cells in the body ! what is the level like for the remaining 98 %, surely the blood CD4 levels are largely insignificant in relation to the big picture ?

Offline milker

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Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2007, 09:40:58 PM »
I hope that the studies going on with "Elite" people will show that some have completely eradicated the virus. I really hope.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline mike

  • Member
  • Posts: 30
Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2007, 09:58:28 PM »
I know two people who are in the "elite controller" group category, both have been HIV+ for over 20 years and both have detectable viral loads that range between 3,000 - 5,000 but normal HIV negative type CD4 counts.

Offline milker

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Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2007, 10:00:27 PM »
I know two people who are in the "elite controller" group category, both have been HIV+ for over 20 years and both have detectable viral loads that range between 3,000 - 5,000 but normal HIV negative type CD4 counts.

Bastards!  ;D ;D

No, actually it would be good if they can finally find out what's working there, and I really want to hear an announcement that says "virus eradicated from individual X". Poor X he'd be subject of studies all his life though.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline mike

  • Member
  • Posts: 30
Re: Undetectable ok but why not just "gone" ?
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2007, 10:04:51 PM »
that's true  :D  but from what i understand, their body can control the virus but never eradicate it, hence the title "controllers" but not "terminators"  ;D

there was that young guy in London who was "supposed" to have eliminated the virus that hit the news about  a year ago but he has since "gone to ground" and is refusing to participate in any offers of trials or experiments. very suspicous that story was.  :-\

 


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