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Author Topic: AIDS and the future  (Read 9587 times)

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Offline darkhome

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  • Posts: 6
AIDS and the future
« on: December 17, 2006, 07:49:06 PM »
I heard one guy at an HIV forum say when he
was diagnosed positive that his doctor said with
the drugs they have now he can live a full normal life
meaning it will just be a chronic disease never
going into AIDS. His doctor actually told him that and
I heard many other people on various forums say they
were told the same thing. Is this true? I heard drugs
are in the process of getting better and with
less side effects, so if what the previous things i said
aren't true, then if one were to take an educated guess on
how long it will be until it gets to a point where pills(or a therapeutic
vaccine)can bring hiv level down to a managable level no matter
how advanced your disease is (with maturation
inhibitators ect.), then when will that be?
Also, if the first statement is not true, and if they just keep
you alive for like 20 years then wouldn't it seem very very likely
that in that 20 year lifespan some new novel treatment will arise
to extend your life to its full lifespan anyway?

Offline Ihavehope

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  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2006, 11:55:28 AM »
I was newly diagnosed as well. My doctor also told me that HIV is considered a chronic disease, and average lifespan of someone who test poz now a days is 20 plus years or more. I also asked him if there would be better treatments and possibly a cure and he answered Absolutely but that doesnt mean we should not be concerned about taking better care of our selves. He also advised me to NOT be tempted to have unsafe sex with other POZ people because if I get infected with other virus strains that could be alot harder to treat. He told me now more than ever I must take better care of myself because a better treatment and a cure is possible.

Also if you do your research there are hundreds of scientist and researchers working around the clock to find out how to treat it, prevent it and kill the virus. Tat Oyi and Valporic Acid are two treatments who started clinical trials and who look promising in eliminating many latent HIV cells. So is it worth being optimistic. I think so, but it is easier to say it then to be it. I had a conversation with someone who is POZ and he told me that patience is something that we must acquire to be happy when we are sick and I agree.
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline AtomicA

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  • that's Famous with an F
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2006, 03:39:45 AM »
when they did my initial intake at the HIV clinic here I brought my parents and the first thing my dad asked the doctor was "I want an honest answer in terms of life expectancy" and the doc replied "normal"

I don't know if they told me that to stop me from jumping off a building as it was only 1 week after diagnosis or if it's true, but I really do believe that this is a cureable disease. Just take care of yourself in the meantime!

Offline Catman

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  • Blessed with more than 9 lives! + since 1986
    • Who is the Catman?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 09:15:38 AM »
Well 20 years isn't bad but that means my time is up. This will be my 21st year positive and though I've had my ups and downs I'd dare say that I've been mostly healthy during this long time. Last year I became resistant to everything on the counters and my last chance was with Fuzeon, Aptivus and Norvir. Voila! It worked and I became undetectable for the first time in 20 years and I did have good habits in taking my meds on time, always. Now I'm just worried (a little) as to when will I become resistant to the meds that have me undetectable. My doc assures me that new meds are coming out this new year 2007 and that I still have a long way to go before I can hang up my sneakers behind the door and "retire"...I'm not asking anymore. ;)
Catman

Meow to the birds
Meow to the tree's
Meow to the end
of this dreadful disease...

Offline Iggy

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 09:32:55 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 11:05:46 PM by Iggy »

Offline Ihavehope

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  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 11:36:47 AM »
Hi Catman

Well the reason I said my Nurse Practioner and other who work in the clinic said 20 plus year is because you have to remember that HIV/AIDS is only 25 years old and they also can't say you will live more years because there is no evidence. You have it for 21 years and are evidence that you can live many years. Someone like you will is already living a normal lifespan so I wouldn't worry if I were you and about the treatments, many are on it's way.

For us newly infected it is quite a different experience because of the various strain that become drug resistant. Although new drugs have appeared which can also be toxic we have no other alternative. Who knows perhaps in a few years better treatments less toxic will come about, but until then we just hae to deal with it. I also don't believe that living longer lives means better lives what matters most is the quality of life. We are going to die some day some of other illnesses and some killed, accidents etc. Unfortuntately we have a difficult battle called HIV/AIDS. I had a cousin born with a heart problem and down syndrym and they gave him about 6 years max of life in 1985 when he was born,  he is still alive and healthy and turned 22 in October.

I wish Science was 20 plus years avanced so we could see people outlive expetation and not worry so much about it being chronic or not.
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline Catman

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  • Blessed with more than 9 lives! + since 1986
    • Who is the Catman?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 07:56:20 PM »
I do agree with you. We may die of other things not related to hiv or aids. I guess my virus has mutated over the years but I see your point in developing drug resistant strains at an early time. I guess we are on the same boat on this one at this time... :o
Catman

Meow to the birds
Meow to the tree's
Meow to the end
of this dreadful disease...

Offline bimazek

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  • Posts: 781
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2007, 12:42:18 AM »

i have been told these things by doctors and hiv professionals

20-30 years with the current meds and no improvement median life expectancy

but of course there are tons of new improvements and new meds so that in next 5 to 10 years new things will come out

the important thing is not to do any damage like, get stds, or get bad infections, or NEVER DO POPPERS cause that causes cancer and KS,

of course if you are 18 yrs old it could easily be 40yrs with current technology

you are right as new things come out

there are still some tricky things that can happen

like a guy here got a tooth abscess and didnt get it taken care of right away... any infection causes and irritation and any irritation can lead to cancer and hivers are more prone to cancer, that is why it is important to treat any problem very very seriously, this guy the guy here got a tooth abscess and didnt get it taken care of right away ... he just died of cancer

not too much sun
not too much alcholol
exercise

there are tons and tons of new things coming out
check out my posts in research and treatment


Offline ARMANDO

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2007, 09:46:53 AM »
welli was diagnosed about 18 yrs ago and at that time my cell ct was below 200 ,so the DR.told me that i had aids.Times and treatment have certainly changed and there are more educated doctors out there but they all still agree that if you have a cell ct below 200 ,that is considered aids!!In the past 18 yrs my ct has never gone above that mark !!!N OW THEY ARE FOCUSING MORE ON THE VIRAL LOAD WHICH IS NOW UNDECTABLE.SO I HAVE BEEN LIVING WITH AIDS FOR THE PAST 18 YRS AND YES THERE HAVE BEEN SOME TIMES WHERE I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS THE END BUT I ALWAYS SEEMED TO PULL THRU.I HAVE HAD TO OUTLIVE ALL MY FRIENDS AND THAT TO ME IS THE HARDEST PART.

Offline Toronto37

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  • Posts: 9
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2007, 01:15:49 PM »
the important thing is not to do any damage like, get stds, or get bad infections, or NEVER DO POPPERS cause that causes cancer and KS,

Huh?  I thought that way of thinking went out with the 80's ?

Or am I wrong?

T
December 2004 - Infected.
February 2005 - Seroconverted.
April 2005 - CD4 340 VL 82,467 CD% 17.3.
March 2006 - CD4 300 VL 59,155 CD%19.4
April 2006 - Viramune & Truvada .
September 2006 - CD4 580 VL 0 CD% 22.0
August 2007 - CD4 860 VL 0 CD% 26.0
No problems/side effects.

Offline newt

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  • the one and original newt
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2007, 02:50:20 PM »
Someone show me the research that poppers used recreationally in humans causes cancer and I'll give every bloke on the forum who wants a blow-job.

I like this article: A 25 year-old diagnosed with HIV and treated with HIV therapy can expect to live to his 60s, Danes show

In the next 25 years either we'll all be fucked by the weather or radiation or treatment will be so much damn better we'll be cussing the pension funds and our attitudes to saving for the zimmer years.

Let us hope better sooner rather than later cos I don't wanna be alive and 80 with osteoporosis, screwed kidneys and looking like Mr Burns on speed.

Look after yourself, yes, be boring, no.

- matt
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 03:18:54 PM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Regretsafew

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2007, 02:57:07 PM »


can i be first?  hehehehe   

<wink> ;)

Offline newt

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  • the one and original newt
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2007, 03:18:26 PM »
Sadly, no, cos there is no evidence that passes scientific muster  ;)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 03:33:40 PM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • Posts: 23,558
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2007, 03:27:29 PM »
people STILL think poppers causes KS?  ha ha... crazy

that is so 1987
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline hussy_24

  • Member
  • Posts: 48
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2007, 04:01:30 PM »
i dont understand why people use poppers, i mean a) the stuff smells like bleach, and b) i would find it insulting if they said they need it to get turned on...

i'd gladly take the blow job though.

on topic, its amazing how much having hiv has turned into a "non-event" after reading around and knowing with treatment, eating the right foods (with the occasional treat ;-) ), regular working out, can make u treat it like a chronic infection.

every week i hear a priest say "theres nothing worse than aids", a newspaper article about the "deadly disease" or the "monster" who spread hiv and i think to myself why dont all those people just STFU. They are all stuck in the 1980s and if you limit yourself you will just give in mentally and let hiv become you.

and hey, in any event, by 2010 am sure there will be lots of new meds and if we pray a little a therapeutic vaccine. seem to be a lot of articles on the research forum about such things.

Offline newt

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  • the one and original newt
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2007, 04:26:01 PM »
Somewhere between the "devastation", "monster" and "deadly plague" and  "chronic condition just like diabetes" is the truth.  I dislike the drama around HIV, but I am not at home with the idea of HIV being a non-event, it's a serious medical condition, often unimportant in the big scheme of living, loving and doing, but serious  ... serious, unimportant, serious unimportant, this is my see-saw.

- matt

Now playing: the fan heater
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2007, 04:57:58 PM »
I agree.  I can think of a handful of people, twice removed from me, that have died in the last two years.  Yes, it's less than it used to be but it still happens, and it will lessen with each passing year hopefully.  I'm not ready to compare it to diabetes yet though.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ihavehope

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  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2007, 07:54:20 PM »
Quote
Posted by: philly267 
Insert Quote
I agree.  I can think of a handful of people, twice removed from me, that have died in the last two years.  Yes, it's less than it used to be but it still happens, and it will lessen with each passing year hopefully.  I'm not ready to compare it to diabetes yet though.


I agree with Philly, they claim it's chronic and comparable to diabetes but I don't believe that.
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline whizzer

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  • Posts: 363
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2007, 10:07:37 PM »
Chronic, yes.  Manageable, yes.

Comparable to Diabetes, well, not at all.

Now, if I had developed HIV because my body stopped making it's own Truvada, then these Diabetes comparisons might be accurate.  However, I don't see how people can make such a ready comparison between a disease where you replace a hormone your body stops making with an infectious disease requiring what is essentially lifelong chemotherapy to keep under control.

Oh, and nobody ever caught Diabetes from someone else.

It is a stupid comparison, and one that annoys the hell out of me.

Offline fondeveau

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  • Posts: 425
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2007, 11:56:02 PM »
 I think the comparison  to diabetes is that with proper care and medication, you will live a "normal" life span.  My doctor told me I would die, as all men do, but, not of AIDS, but simply, old age.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2007, 01:34:23 AM »
I think the comparison  to diabetes is that with proper care and medication, you will live a "normal" life span.  My doctor told me I would die, as all men do, but, not of AIDS, but simply, old age.
Did you ask why people are still dying from it?  I have someone in my support group he could meet, but alas he just croaked.

Why can't they just say people are living MUCH longer without the overly dramatic and somewhat erroneous statements?  Or am I misreading something here?  Mind you, I'm VERY optimistic about medical advances, I just think they should err on the side of more cautious statements.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fondeveau

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2007, 07:30:23 AM »
What you are missing is that the outcome for people who are recently diagnosed, recently infected, etc and start treatment etc is a lot different from someone who may have already suffered irreparable harm over a long time period?  For example, suppose someone is pos, but doesnt' know it for five years.  From what I've read, this person's prognosis is vastly different from someone who starts treatment during acute infection?  Or that the medical advances in recent years provides much better prospects for the recently infected/diagnosed vs treatment experienced HIV'ers?  There are many people on the forums who have been positive since the early 80's.  At that time, they were told to pack their bags as they were checking out within two years.  Surprise, they are still here.  During my first visit with my ID Doc, he told me NOT to pack my bags.

If you are told that the average lifespan for someone with HIV is 25 years, and suppose there are two people in the group, it could be that one died 0 years into it and the other died 50 years later.  An extreme example, but one that points out that disease progression differs vastly between individuals within the population.  But, the general population will overall achieve a manageable, chronic condition leading to a "normal" life span - similar, again, to the condition of most diabetics.

Diabetics like HIV'ers are concerned with eating right, exercising, regular testing, and medicine.  I will have to check it out, but I imagine that diabetics have their own forums with topics such as "Am I diabetic?" "I just tested poz for diabetes" "Living with Diabetes" "Someone I care about has Diabetes" "Treatment Questions" "Side Effects" etc.

People are still dying from both diseases.  But, until the doctor knows of specific facts which would warrant a change in prognosis, (i.e. your virus is resistant to all known medicine), I think its reassuring and not at all misleading to indicate to a patient that with proper care and medical treatment, the patient will live a "normal" life span. 

Offline Ihavehope

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  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2007, 11:46:52 AM »
There are no right or wrong answers because fortunately or unfortunately we are the generation that will prove if HAART is as successful in expanding our lives to a normal lifespan or not. I have not been on meds but will be pretty soon and have been reading alot about certain effects and contributions meds have and it's not all pleasant. Diabetes is no walk in the park either, trust me, i have family living with it and it's a nightmare as well. The good thing is that medicine in both HIV and Diabetes is advancing. Although both of these disease are non correlated it gives us hope that better meds are in the making. 20 years back medicine had nothing to treat HIV/AIDS now it's considered chronic perhaps next will be a cure.
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2007, 01:07:36 PM »
fondeveau:  I agree with what you said, my only gripe is that doctors should explain it in lengthy format like you just did... that these are averages, etc.  and not with a short quip about how it's like diabetes.  I think it might give people a "lite" conception of the situation.

It's exactly this lack of insight on it all that has been leading the younger crowd to think bareback is not that big of a deal because, hey... I'll only have to pop some pills and be now worse off than a diabetic.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fondeveau

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2007, 01:55:34 PM »
Its an interesting phenomenom about bug chasers and how younger folks want cock like I've been told it was in the late sixties and seventies: Like going to the candy store.  I want that one and this one and that one.  The premise isn't that bad - that which unites us is stronger than that which divides us.  Therefore, no pos, no neg, just fuck all you want.  Until you get to the fact that there are indeed serious life issues with HIV+ that cannot be fixed with a once a day drug regimen.  Is HIV a Red Badge of Courage for the younger crowd?  Imagine their crestfallen faces when a cure is announced!

It reminds me of an article I read which stated that due to the mainstreaming of much of black culture, we are all now a little black.  Same for gay culture.  We are all a little gay.  While many welcome the assimilation, others feel the loss of their identity as a distinct group.  Maybe young gay people don't feel the same subcultural identity/influences now that "everyone" is at least bi and loves Will and Grace and the plotline on Brothers and Sister includes lots of homosexual activity.  Perhaps, HIV status re-orients their identity and makes them feel as though they belong.  Though HIV doesn't distinguish between gay and straight, black and white, etc. the perception in America is that it is primarily a gay disease and we all aren't, and can't be, "just a little poz."  Either you are or you are not.

I shocked my kindergarten teacher when I suggested that black people should not be allowed to marry black people, but only white people.  That way everyone would be a little black/white and therefore, the same, thus eliminating racial tension.  As much as Americans like to think of themselves as rugged individualists, there is a strong need in our culture to belong.  Part of the current push in gay rights is reclamation of the individual's place in a church, at a wedding of their own, etc.  In other words, for gays to belong, not merely be tolerated. 

There are stories of those who spread HIV with rampant abandon to avenge themselves on the world.  I think the bug chasers are are those who spread HIV out of a loneliness.  Not belonging fully to a gay subculture as in "The Boys in the Band" and not belonging fully in "straight" society.  Raised on television shows and education paradigms that stress the very tolerance, openess, understanding, etc, which is destroying the gay subculture, much as most of us have lost all traces of our ethnic/cultural roots and are simply Americans.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 01:59:46 PM by fondeveau »

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2007, 02:11:01 PM »
I still think the bug chasing phenomenon is a distinct and smaller than assumed subset situation and over-hyped.  No, I'm not denying its existence... I just think it's VERY fringe but plays well in the press, and hence people fixate on it.  Undesirable fringe behavior is not new by any means with ANY subject... one can always locate some complete wacko behavior.  Bug chasing has more to do with undiagnosed mental health issues than anything... if HIV didn't exist this same group would be doing something else to kill themselves.

The majority of infections are generally stemming from a lackadaisical interest in general HIV information.  One only need read the "Am I Infected" section here to see that.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 02:12:54 PM by philly267 »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fondeveau

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  • Posts: 425
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2007, 07:11:50 PM »
Well, I am always fascinated by how many times people have protected sex, but worry that they got fluids on their finger.  But, most of the posts in the  "Am I infected" forum is stale drama for any of us cursed with memory.

Beyond bug chasing, young homos aren't barebacking for lack of knowledge regarding HIV.  I've outlined some of my thoughts in the prior post.  Maybe, people are just tired of safe sex.  Maybe, people feel that they will get it sooner or later. Who knows, who knows, but interesting. 

Offline bimazek

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2007, 03:36:47 AM »
my belief is normal life span and that is just mathematics

at 100k viral load there are about 100 cd4 cells gone per year that gives about 10 years ave
at undetectable (there is still about 20k in the gut, maybe more)  so that only gets about 5 times longer 50 years ave

but then you have to subtact some life expectancy for increased risk of normal aging diseases and wear and tear on body... so you get about
about an ave. of 20-35 yrs on ave with no new advances in meds

and there already are new advances like integrase inhibit, and tons of new stuff

this sounds simplfied but there are computer models at oxford and other univ. that very complexly deal with these exact numbers and they can predict that we can live 20-35 years more easy

but dont use poppers ever, very cancer producing, all my friends have got ks and i can show you peer review science that proves it

see these... even on the meds there is a war going on between body and hiv but it is slowed so far down that it is like a little one on one man fight each day...

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7707.0
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7708.0

 
Other exciting new classes of medicines currently in human clinical trials and preclinical trials for HIV include the following: 
16 new integrase iinhibitors,
44 entry inbibitors, including CCR5 gp120,
gp41 blockers
scsr4 blockers,
8 new maturation inhibitors,
19 non nukes,
18 nukes,
8 new protease inhibitors,

and the following completely new classes of meds; alpha intigrins, regulatory protein inhibitors, CDK inhibitors, rev inhibitors, tat inhibitor, CDK9 inhibitor, ATM kinase inhibitor, glucocorticoid antoagonist, nuclear location viral matrix blockers, erg1 gene activators, nicotinic acetylcholine receptor blockers, p38 inhibitor, capsid inhibitor, rev-tat inhibitor.  All of these attack the virus at different points in its lifecycle and any one of these could be the next breakthough treatment.   Twently years of scientific work and billions of dollars are paying off in the HIV treatment area bringing hope .

Offline bimazek

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2007, 03:42:26 AM »
even on meds these things below still happen but at a million times slower rate................

Why donít the human bodies own antibodies work against hiv completely?
 It takes too long for antibodies specific for a
 particular strain to develop
 The virus is evolving at a rate too great for
 the immune system to keep up with
 Immune Responses in Asymptomatic Phase: Depends on a relatively few CD8 clones
     Maintenance of <5-20 CD8 expanded memory/effector CTL clones, each comprising 1-5% of
 CD8 repertoire
     Clones each recognize different HIV peptides, great individual variation in number and particular
 peptide recognized
     Many clones = generally good outlook for long asymptomatic period ( 12 year), few clones =
 rapid progression of HIV infection (< 2 years)
     The number of clones and survival duration correlates with the viral  set point  established in the
 acute infection; set point reflects the adequacy of a personís immune system to respond to HIV
 Long term non progresors
     Subset of infected individuals that remain asymptomatic for  12 years
     Particular HLA types, e.g. HLA-B27, B57
     Low levels of plasma virions, CD4 counts  500/ĶL
     High CD8 counts, maybe  3000/ ĶL
     CTL response is against critical conserved region of HIV gag, env, pol that cannot readily be
 mutated without loss of viral function; This appears to be the key factor
     High chemokine release (RANTES, MIP)
 The particular peptide that is recognized in HIV by cytotoxic CD8 cells is critically important to
 whether the infection will be controlled
 If the recognized peptide encodes a region that is essential for HIV function, any mutation in that site will
 be lethal for the virus; for this to occur to conditions must be met:
 1) The correct peptide must be presented. The individualís class I MHC alleles are the major
 determinant of which peptide is recognized. They determine the particular peptides that are bound and
 presented
 2) The peptide must be recognized by a T cell clone. Not all bound peptides are equivalently
 recognized by T cell clones in the repertoire. Only a few bound peptides are  immunodominant,  and
 readily recognized.
 The T cell ligand is a combination of peptide and class I MHC, and it demonstrates the importance of
 polymorphism in the HLA molecule
 The environment formed by peptide binding properties of MHC molecules influences evolution of
 the HIV infection. HLA alleles influence the number of peptides in a protein that can be recognized
 (e.g. HIV envelope protein)
 Allele: HLA-B*27052
 HLA-B*3501
 HLA-B*0702
 Motif: XRXXXXXX[KRYL] XPXXXXXXY
 XPXXXXXXL
 Each allele is able to bind a number of different peptides
 7
 Page 8
 Basis of outcome with HLA type
 HLA B35 Rapid Progression
 HLA B27 Slow progression
     PXXXXXY peptides recognized if any are
 in noncritical parts of HIV genome
 permitting mutations in MHC anchor
 residues
     Peptides are weak stimulators
     Rapid viral replication and evolution not
 restrained
     RXXXXXX[KRYL] peptides recognized
 are often in critical parts of HIV genome
 and mutations not permitted in MHC
 anchor or TCR recognition residues
     Peptides give strong stimulation
     Viral replication and evolution greatly
 slowed
 Immune Response
 Asymptomatic phase:
 Shifiting immunodominance in epitope war
 Near end of asymptomatic period
     Usually recurrent pattern of HIV escape
 from immunodominant CTL effect by
 mutation followed by regain of CD8
 control via next HIV peptide that can be
 presented by MHC I and recognized by
 TCR in hierarcy of HIV peptide
 immunodomiance
     During the progression of the infection in a
 person a huge number (swarm) of mutant
 forms arise (quasispecies)
     Ultimately return of high viral levels,
  10
 6
 /mL
     Rate of viral infection and potential
 mutations increases. Definitive viral
 escape occurs when virus is no longer
 presented by MHC to available CD8 clones
     Continual generation of env mutations
     Selection against R5 variants by CD8
 CCR5 chemokines that blocks infection is
 finally bypassed
     Change in cellular tropism by env
 mutations leads to R4 phenotype
     Enhanced R4 tropism leads to more
 significant impairment of naÔve CD4
 compartment-This is the critical undoing
 of the immune response
 Loss of the  epitope war : 1) Viral control lost 2) Mutation to different tropic strain
 Reasons for CD4 T cell loss in HIV infection: During asymptomatic phase and transition to AIDS,
 there is an accelerated loss in number of CD4 T cells
     Activation of large numbers of mature and naÔve CD4 cells by cytokines, etc during antiviral
 response (bystander activation) leads to loss of repertoire by physiologic apoptosis because T
 cells arenít activated by signal 1 and 2 but rather, by an inappropriate mechanism
     Thymic derangement results in failure to generate new naÔve CD4 T cells to repopulate repertoire
     CD8 T cell killing of infected CD4 T cells
     ACDD by NK cells, etc to infected CD4 T cells
 8
 Page 9
 Another reason for CD4 loss
 CD4 activation initiates HIV
 replication
 HIV replication initiates CD4
 activation
 T cell activation causes a marked
 increase in cyclin T1, NFAT and
 NF
 ?
 B
 This links viral expression to T cell
 activation

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2007, 03:53:12 AM »
Quote from: bimazek
but dont use poppers ever, very cancer producing, all my friends have got ks and i can show you peer review science that proves it

Then show it.  Several people on this thread have asked repeatedly.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online RapidRod

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2007, 05:12:36 AM »
Lord, if poppers cause cancer and KS, then lord, I've contributed a bunch of heart patients to doomsville.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2007, 12:45:14 PM »
Of course, it goes without saying that sitting at home and sniffing little bottles of that stuff for hours and hours and hours day after day after day... might do something not fun to one's body.  However, I've seen no medical science that shows a direct connection with even moderate use to cancer/KS.  It's all paranoid re-treads of pseudo-science in the 80's, probably connected with the entire bathhouse scare.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline bimazek

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2007, 09:56:22 PM »
philly 267  you are a very attractive man, and i am from east coast too originally

i have a photo of a friend in a book called

history of castro that shows my friend in hospital with his entire nose red with KS and with a few lesions on his face and body, he was a popper user, i have had numerous people in my hiv support groups who talked about horrendous KS all over body inside body and the multiple chemo they went thru to get rid of it and how it took years away from them in treatments, and i asked them about popper use, they said they did alot of poppers

it is very hard to quantify a dangeous substance, yes if you do it once for a heart patient there is a 99.999% chance that the person will not get cancer from it, but there is a one in one hundred thousand who will die from cancer caused by that one popper use for a heart attack, i dont have the exact numbers...

if you do it one thousand times then your chance of getting cancer is greatly increased

even without poppers hiv-people have a 8 to 10 times increased chance of getting cancer, perhaps less on haart

here is the science...

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=poppers+cancer&hl=en&lr=&btnG=Search


Poppers: large cancer increase and immune suppression in animal tests.
JS James - AIDS Treat News, 1999 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Poppers: large cancer increase and immune suppression in animal tests.
James JS. AIDS: A study on mice injected with cancer cells


Anal cancer incidence: genital warts, anal fissure or fistula, hemorrhoids,
... among patients with anal or rectal squamous cell cancer and control ...
Marijuana Cocaine Amyl or butyl nitrite ("poppers") Valium, barbiturates ...


Age-Related Prevalence of Anal Cancer Precursors in Homosexual Men: The EXPLORE Study- JNCI Cancer Spectrum, 2005 - Oxford Univ Press
... for development of anal cancer precursor lesions (4). We also found evidence for
the independent association of injection drug use and use of poppers with the


Poppers: Epidemiology and Clinical Management of Inhaled Nitrite Abuse - group of 3 Ľ
C Pomeroy - Pharmacotherapy, 2004 - atypon-link.com
... EPIDEMIOLOGY AND CLINICAL MANAGEMENT OF NITRITE POPPERS Romanelli et al ... Kaposiís
sarcoma in later years of the HIV epidemic found that the cancer most likely


The Survey Shows - group of 3 Ľ
GAY MEN - Journal of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association, 2002 - Springer
... These include a number of substances ranging from amyl nitrate (ďpoppersĒ) to marijuana ...
to very serious long-term issues such as cirrhosis and liver cancer

Offline bimazek

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2007, 10:04:46 PM »
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=amyl+nitrite+cancer&btnG=Search



Most of the toxicology litera- tune on butyl nitrite and amyl and butyl alcohol
refers ... ucts could increase the risk of developing cancer.

Correlates of Prevalent and Incident Kaposiís SarcomaĖAssociated Herpesvirus Infection in Men Who
the Journal of Infectious Diseases, 2002 - journals.uchicago.edu
... of Washington, and 4 Program in Infectious Disease, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research
Center ... HIV-positive partner (OR, 5.9; 95% CI, 1.8 19.3), amyl nitrite use

Local versus Systemic Immunotoxicity of Isobutyl Nitrite Following Subchronic Inhalation Exposure of Ö - Toxicological Sciences - Soc Toxicology
 reported immunotoxicity also to amyl nitrite, a related volatile aliphatic
nitrite, following short-term in vitro pulse exposure of human lymphocytes.


Cancer and Nutrition
CB Simone - books.google.com
... Risk Factor Table 2.1 Cancer Risk Factors ...  Male homosexuality (promiscuity, amyl nitrite) Radiation Xrays


Indications from animal and chemical experiments of a carcinogenic role for isobutyl nitrite.
 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
... Research in Cancer and Allied Diseases, University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha
68105. Publication Types: Review; Review, Tutorial. MeSH Terms: Amyl Nitrite



Risk factors for non-Hodgkin's lymphoma according to family history of haematolymphoproliferative Ö
K Zhu, RS Levine, EA Brann, Y Gu, LS Caplan, I Ö - International Journal of Epidemiology, 2001 - ije.oupjournals.org
... who were frequency matched to lymphoma cases by cancer registry and 5 ... behaviour),
type of non-prescription drugs used (amphetamines, amyl nitrite or poppers

Mucosal Shedding of Human Herpesvirus 8 in Men
J Pauk, ML Huang, SJ Brodie, A Wald, DM Koelle, T Ö
... sex with men, Kaposi's sarcoma is the most common cancer associated with ... the association
was especially marked in the case of amyl nitrite capsules (ℌpoppers

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2007, 10:42:24 PM »
source

Poppers and HIV

The long-term effects of poppers has been a matter of considerable controversy, particularly as it has been argued that their use caused AIDS and particularly Kaposi's sarcoma. However, this view is not supported by any scientific evidence and studies comparing the effects of poppers on HIV-negative and HIV-positive gay men found that only those with HIV suffered any immune damage or progressed to AIDS. However, some animal studies have shown that poppers can suppress immune responses and can have cancer causing effects. These studies have been criticised because of the relatively large amounts of nitrites given to animals. Any long-term immune damage or cancer causing effects in humans remains to be proven.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline sdcabincrew74

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  • Posts: 540
    • My Manhunt account
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2007, 12:54:53 AM »
managable my ass....

.it seems the establishment is now calling HIV disease a "manageable" condition.  This kind of irks me and I actually had someone ask me when it became a reality for me .... well here is when HIV, which is supposedly managable became reality for me.....

lets see here are a few of the highlights,
a few weeks in the hospital on O2 with PCP and MAC   
Not being able to walk when I was released and unable to go upstairs to sleep in my own bed at home and wondering if we would have to sell the house to buy one "all on one level"
blood clots,
PCP coming back a second time,
meds destroying my lipid levels,
cocktail changes,
genotype tests,
HIV specialist, infectious disease specialist, dermatologist, lung doctors,
interns amazed at the recovery of someone so sick,
having a nurse, less than a month ago, in an urgent care say "you have AIDS?  where are all your lesions and stuff, you look normal"
CD4 counts, percentages, viral loads,
16 viles of blood every quarter,   
having to tell my mom and dad so they could take turns coming out to my home on the west coast to take care of me because my partner HAD to go back to work to keep the health insurance that was footing all the bills (which totalled 325,000+ dollars in three months),
3000 dollars worth of meds every month,
my father begging me to eat more so I would gain weight faster,
sometimes throwing up for no reason after taking meds,
quarterly bloodwork remember the 16 vials,
getting real skinny and then getting chubby and then trying to get back to normal,
a negative partner with whom it took a year for us to realize we could still have sex,
being shunned by the gay community for being POZ,
being automatically accepted by the poz gay community for being poz,
all poz bareback sex parties,
being the only guy in my support group that did not get this while fucked up on meth,
watching meth and HIV destroy another generation of gay boys,
remembering to take those blasted pills every day at dinner and wondering what I will do if and when those pills quit working,
keeping my health condition quiet at work because, well, even though it is illegal I know poz boys sometimes suddenly are gone from my company, there are SO many of us hiding (and I work for one of the top 5 biggest airlines in the United States),
trying not to focus on the the stupid actions of my past,
having the driest skin in the world thanks to the meds and virus,
watching wonderful people still die from this disease,
hearing the word manageable one too many times when some days it takes all I can do not to cry (even after 2 years of dealing with it)

This shitty virus is a bitch slap of reality every damn day of my life. 
The difference between an overnight and a layover is luck!

Offline Peter6836

  • Member
  • Posts: 391
  • Me and my Granddaughter Noa
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2007, 02:34:29 PM »
I agree managable my ass, I get tired of the cavilier attitude some people have. "Oh you can manage this disease"," it isnt so bad anymore", "they have good treatments and drugs to manage that", "you can live a long time with HIV". There is some truth to all of this but the daily knowledge that tomorrow is unpredictable is trying. The fact that the virus attacks us all differently is a fact. Do not tell me my life has not changed with this virus. It is bull, although we may have the possibility of a longer existence than people 10 or 20 years ago may have had, Thank God. We still live every day not knowing what is in store for us. I do not know about anyone else but I certainly do not feel like my old self and I know that I will never be the same again.My liife has changed, and will forever be changed. I face my mortality daily. Like diabetes my ass!!

Offline lifechanging2007

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2007, 10:56:31 AM »
I agree managable my ass, I get tired of the cavilier attitude some people have. "Oh you can manage this disease"," it isnt so bad anymore", "they have good treatments and drugs to manage that", "you can live a long time with HIV". There is some truth to all of this but the daily knowledge that tomorrow is unpredictable is trying. The fact that the virus attacks us all differently is a fact. Do not tell me my life has not changed with this virus. It is bull, although we may have the possibility of a longer existence than people 10 or 20 years ago may have had, Thank God. We still live every day not knowing what is in store for us. I do not know about anyone else but I certainly do not feel like my old self and I know that I will never be the same again.My liife has changed, and will forever be changed. I face my mortality daily. Like diabetes my ass!!

well peter I agree with you, this disease is nothing like any other disease. Diabetes!!!! well is it dangerous to tell someone you have diabetic? can you tell anyone you are HIV+ without seeing fear and "oh poor guy look" on his face. do you have to wonder for resistance for the insulin? if you decide to have sex with someone and he knew you are diabetic will he/she freak out and tell you "NO F***** way" are you afraid to tell your mother you are diabetic? if you forget to take your insulin once will it create resistance and make your life even harder with drug resistance? if you apply to a great job will they refuse you because you are diabetic? Let's be real guys Diabetes is nothing like HIV but i totally understand why people try to convince themselves that it is an easy disease because human mind better works with easy stuff and MANAGEABLE. the thing that i cannot take from my mind is that "one hour" changed my life and because of this fucking hour i have to pay the price for a lifetime....and yeah peter. Like diabetes my ass!!
27/01/07 CD4=15.36%=245 VL=542000
14/03/07 CD4=13%=241 VL=858000    STARTED COMBIVIR AND SUSTIVA ON APRIL 27, 2007
05/09/07 CD4=22%=361  VL=undetectable
21/12/07 CD4=22%=451  VL=undetectable

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead
Today and tomorrow are yet to be said
The chances, the changes, are all yours to make
The mold of your life is in your hands to break.

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,785
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2007, 11:41:20 AM »
If I was diabetic I would have lost my job. Being diabetic is a reason for your flying license to be cancelled immediately. HIV is not. My license was renewed with no problem by the ministry of civil aviation and my airline's medicine department. Diabetes can also damage many organs: kidneys, eyes, etc.
And if you forget to inyect your insulin you can fall in diabetic coma. My cousin is diabetic and his 14 year old son had to enter his apartment through the window because he did not open the door. He was in coma. It also forces you to eat at certain hours or your hands start to shiver, etc.
I personally prefer to be HIV+ than being diabetic. Resistance of HIV to meds is my only concern. If this problem is solved, there is nothing to worry about.
I think there will never be a cure for HIV so maybe I am pessimistic in that aspect, but I really believe it si a manageable condition if you tolerate meds and avoid resistance.
According to my Dr's brief words: "If you tolerate meds, the problem is solved".
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 05:19:00 PM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline Ihavehope

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  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2007, 12:02:58 PM »
Hey Blondie

I am happy to read your threads because they are full of optimism and pro-meds. You are right about tolerating meds but I wish one day we wouldn't have to take them everyday. I WISH I WISH I WISH but I know that will not be possible soon. A cure is my dream but that dream is slowly diminishing as I continue to read and read about the facts of HIV and the way it sticks in our body.

Al
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline antibody

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  • "every man thinks his burden is the heaviest"
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2007, 06:28:56 PM »
i really don't see a cure coming i mean they can't even get more gas mileage out our automobiles.
Timbuk      <50/ 794  CD4 10/06 
                 <50/ 1096 CD4 3/07
                 <40/ 1854 CD4 4/09

Started Atripla  7/14/06
Switched to boosted Reyataz Truvada 3/28/07

*Ask me about Medical Marijuana and how it can help you!*

Offline ScooterTrash

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2007, 09:23:17 AM »

According to my Dr's brief words: "If you tolerate meds, the problem is solved".

Typical.... They (M.D.s) rarely consider the social aspects. (IMHO)

Offline sunzidog

  • Member
  • Posts: 19
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2007, 10:20:32 AM »
Wow what a bunch of depressing crap... lots of other illnesses out there worse than hiv... quit feeling sorry for yourselves.
Infected 01/02/07
03/07: VL<3800 CD4s 506 (Started Atripla)
04/07: VL<500 CD4s 585
05/07: VL<500 CD4s 606
07/07: VL<50 CD4s 1000

Offline Andy Velez

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  • Member
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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2007, 10:24:53 PM »
Sun, that's an unacceptable way to be speaking to members in this Forum. You can dislike or disagree with something. But you cannot take that kind of tone when speaking to others who are simply talking about where they are at.

You're fairly new to this Forum. Maybe you need to read more threads and get a better sense of how people speak to one another here. Consider yourself warned.
Andy Velez

Offline ARMANDO

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2007, 09:41:40 AM »
I'M GLAD SOMEONE IS MONITORING THIS FORUM,I WAS VERY UPSET AT THE COMMENTS THAT THE NEW MEMBER POSTED!!

Offline david3012

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Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2007, 10:34:46 AM »
Im a new poster on here too although have been livign with HIV for 17 years now. Ive seen a lot of positive changes over the years and sadly lost many friends during the 90's.

I just wanted to say that in my opinion a positive outlook is all important - dont dwell on the illness, dont blame the virus - The earlier poster was right in some ways - there are some things out there worse than HIV and I think its important to remember that and be grateful for the good things in life.

I have all the symptons and problems anybody on HAART would have - I feel like crap most days - but the important thing is to kick myself out of bed - go to work and have some faith that things will get better.

I very rarely post on here but thank you all for your words and encouragement.

David

Offline ManISOMan

  • Member
  • Posts: 168
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2007, 02:13:53 AM »
So funny, just more hypocrisy here.

I've been on the other end of someone using profanity in their response to me in a particular thread.  They weren't given any warning or told it was an unacceptable way to respond to another person.  The thread was deemed a "pissing match" and was closed.

I for one happen to agree with the new guy.  And granted, yes, it is easy to feel sorry for yourself, and perhaps we've all been there at one time or another.  But, the fact remains, you'll do yourself a world of good to stop feeling sorry for yourself.

The new guy, didn't call anyone any names and he didn't use any profanity.

Maybe, I'll be warned now...................so be it.

Offline ManISOMan

  • Member
  • Posts: 168
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2007, 02:34:10 AM »
Under "Off Topic" there is a thread, "question about hepatitis b."  And in one posting someone states that hep b is not transmitted through the fecal/oral route.  Yet, they do say is is a bloodborne pathogen. 

Now, wouldn't this forum be better served to have a moderator correct things that are absolutely not true, as opposed to being concerned with a tone.  I've heard tones and sarcasm all over the place.

And, perhaps, the new person warned did not care to be referred to as son.  While you may have the distinction of global moderator you are not his father.

I'm sure you won't have liked what I've said........................I can just tell.  Although, you are beginning to remind me of my father................is it okay that I've said that...............just an observation.

Sincerely,
Scott

Offline ManISOMan

  • Member
  • Posts: 168
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2007, 02:42:15 AM »
Frankly, I was bothered by ihavehope's statement................"for us newly infected it is quite a different experience because of the various strains that beome drug resistant." 

Well, this is the same concern for someone that has had HIV/AIDS for many years.

HIV/AIDS is a different experience for everyone, and not a contest.

I'm sure that ihavehope is a nice person and had no ill intent..............yet still I found it bothersome, the tone doesn't matter in the least.......................not to me.

I'm also sure the new person is a nice person...................maybe they don't state things as everyone would like..........................who does........................I'm certain that I don't. 

Offline Ihavehope

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: AIDS and the future
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2007, 12:37:27 PM »
Frankly, I was bothered by ihavehope's statement................"for us newly infected it is quite a different experience because of the various strains that beome drug resistant." 

Well, this is the same concern for someone that has had HIV/AIDS for many years.

HIV/AIDS is a different experience for everyone, and not a contest.

I'm sure that ihavehope is a nice person and had no ill intent..............yet still I found it bothersome, the tone doesn't matter in the least.......................not to me.

I'm also sure the new person is a nice person...................maybe they don't state things as everyone would like..........................who does........................I'm certain that I don't. 

Hello there. It could be that I am misinterpreting my doctor's words. She told me that it is becoming more common to see people who are newly infected to carry a strain that is drug ressitant to a class or all class of drugs. It is about 7- 10% now. Resistance to drugs is obviously a problem people living with HIV for a long time but that may have occured because you have been through a series of drugs throughout the years which are no longer effective for you. It's however sad to see many of us newly infected to have to start the game with less options of drug therapy than those who are not resistant to any drugs. Those of us who fall in the 10% of newly infected with resistance problems suffer a similar experience than those who have lived with HIV for many years and been through various regimens of drugs.
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

 


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