Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 29, 2014, 03:16:55 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 650644
  • Total Topics: 49678
  • Online Today: 182
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 6
Guests: 112
Total: 118

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Welcome to Am I Infected

IMPORTANT UPDATE
Posted Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Welcome to the "Am I Infected?" POZ forum.

New members -- those who have posted three or fewer messages -- are permitted to post questions and responses, free of charge (make them count!). Ongoing participation in the "Am I Infected?" forum -- posting more than three questions or responses -- requires a paid subscription.

A seven-day subscription is $9.99, a 30-day subscription is $14.99 and a 90-day subscription is $24.99.

Anyone who needs to post more than three messages in the "Am I Infected?" forum -- including past, present and future POZ Forums members -- will need to subscribe, with secure payments made via PayPal.

There will be no charge to continue reading threads in the "Am I Infected?" forum, nor will there be a charge for participating in any of the Main Forums; Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits; and Off Topic Forums. Similarly, all POZ and AIDSmeds pages, including our "How is HIV Transmitted?" and "Am I Infected? (A Guide to Testing for HIV)" lessons, will remain accessible to all. 

NOTE: HIV testing questions will still need to be posted in the "Am I Infected?" forum; attempts to post HIV symptoms or testing questions in any other forums will be considered violations of our rules of membership and subject to time-outs and permanent bans.

To learn how to upgrade your Forums account to participate beyond three posts in the "Am I Infected?" Forum, please click here.

Thank you for your understanding and future support of the best online support service for people living with, affected by and at risk for HIV.

Author Topic: hiv in saliva and Orasure  (Read 3462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gb1

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
hiv in saliva and Orasure
« on: September 16, 2006, 01:15:34 PM »
Hello,

From the limited amount of information I have been able to read about this specific topic, it appears that hiv infection causes the
cd4/cd8 ratio to invert even before seroconvesrion in some cases,  but certinly in all ( ? ) cases at, or immediately following seroconversion.  More importantly to my question, I also understand that the cd4/cd8 ratio remains inverted at all subsequent times
( months, years, a decade or more ) provided of course no treatment is rendered to "normalize" the cd4 count. So then, can one assume there are no factors other than medication which could cause an hiv+ individual to have a ratio within the "normal" values ( .09 - 1.5) of an hiv- person...and this is at any given point in time, correct ?  In other words, if at 2 or 3 years post a possible infection a person has a  cd 4/ cd8 ratio of 1.5 , is that result absolutely conclusive that such person is hiv negative ?  Or is there more to it than that ?

Kind thanks for your anticipated reply.             

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2006, 01:18:30 PM »
Did you have a specific risk that you are concerned about.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2006, 01:45:57 PM »
gb,

You absolutely CANNOT determine a person's hiv status going by any test other than an hiv antibody test. CD4, CD8, ratios, absolutes, percentages or any other such things are NOT reliable indicators of hiv status.

We do not deal in speculation in this forum. If you have a specific hiv concern, we can only help you with it if you tell us why you are worried about determining hiv status.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline gb1

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2006, 05:56:58 PM »
A non-sexual risk ( although I'm not sure that's relevant ) - and statistically anyway, the risk would have been negligible; I have had two endoscopic procedures ( trough the urethra ) for a ureter/kidney junction cyst, where the medical facility later advised they discovered some inconsistent practices relative to instrument sterelization and some patients may have exposed to either hepatitis or hiv - of concern is also the fact that this particular facility does treat a large percentage of hiv+ individuals, and they did offer free testing ( big deal ! ), but as is the case with so many others here, I'm just not sure I want to face the possibility..

It's been about three years now, and I've had some vague, very mild symptoms after a month or two of the procedures which could fall in the category of those described as being related to hiv infection, but I read the presence or absence of symtopms means nothing, so I can't speculate based on those..     

As part of my annual check up CBC, I've asked the Dr. to order a lymphocyte subset just to see what may turn up, and he sent the results to a hematologist who indicated given the 1.5  cd4/cd8 ratio there is no chance of any viral infection present, but then again the hematologist is not an immune disorder specialist, so I was hoping for some validation of that opinion..

Thanks for the replies !
       
     

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2006, 06:03:44 PM »
You are not going to get HIV in the manner in which you have stated. If you are having symptoms see a doctor, it's unrelated to HIV.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2006, 06:20:15 PM »
gb,

It would be unlikely in the extreme for hiv to be transmitted in this manner.

However, hep C is another matter and there have been documented cases of hep C transmission due to bad sterilisation practices with endoscopy.

If you were you, I'd definitely check for hep C. This is another illness that can ONLY be detected with any reliability through antibody testing.

With either of these illnesses, trying to determine one's status through markers in general blood tests is not in any way, shape or form reliable. Either illness could be present in a person with totally normal CBCs and conversly, either illness could be absent in a person with totally off the chart CBCs.

If in doubt, test with the appropriate test. Neither illness is anything to guess about and both can be transmitted to others through ignorance.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline gb1

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2006, 08:54:32 PM »
understood.  your responses and advice is much appreciated.
gb

Offline gb1

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2006, 09:51:30 PM »
OK, I checked out the liver function panels of the recent CBC results, none are out of the established ranges so considering how much time has passed...I verified that also - 3 1/2 years now...I would think ( unlike hiv, which can be asymptomatic for a long time, and as you said, cannot be determined by regular CBC results ) at this stage there would be strong manifestations of hepatitis, as well as markers in the blood tests indicative of liver disease.  But I'll check with my doctor and test if necessary.

As for HIV, it's good to hear my risk is exteremely unlikely, though it seems infected objects contact with blood ( even percutaneous needle sticks ) pose a higher risk statistically than many sexual means of hiv transmittal, so it can't be entirely dismissed as a non-risk...
thus, my mind is not completely at ease.. I realize based on what you wrote that definite conclusions cannot be made on anything other than anti-body hiv tests, because you can have hiv +  and/or hiv - individuals with lymphocyte counts all over the place, but for the sake of my sanity until and if I decide to get tested, IF it is a medical fact that cd8 cells are substantilally higher than cd4 cells troughout the course of hiv in the overwhelming majority of individuals which have hiv, I am asking if it would be reasonable to think the chances of me being hiv-, given a normal 1.5 ratio, are overwhelmingly in my favor, based on that medical fact ?  So no absolutes, just a question on probability..         

             

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: cd4/cd8 ratio conclusive of hiv+or- status ?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 04:55:51 AM »
gb,

Hep C can be asymptomatic for 25 years or even more. Also, with hep C, liver enzyme levels can be completely normal and yet a person can have substantial liver damage. I know, this happened to me. I had hep C for fourteen years before there was the slightest indication that anything was amiss. 

Once again, your speculation based on various enzyme levels or CBC results as to your hiv or hep C status is pointless.

The ONLY way to determine your hiv or hep C status is through the appropriate antibody tests. Period, end of story.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline gb1

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
hiv in saliva and Orasure
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2006, 12:51:40 PM »
Hi,
Reply after reply in this forum maintains that saliva is inhospitable to hiv, so much so that it almost has the propensity to render the virus ineffective, and that infection from deep / "french" kissing and even oral sex ( insertive or receptive ) is virtually unheard of  - ref. numerous discordant couples studies supporting the above mentioned fact.  So how is it then possible that Orasure detects hiv serology with such precision, from essentially what is a test which merely swabs a small amount of saliva ?  Confused .

Thank you   

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: hiv in saliva and Orasure
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2006, 01:36:10 PM »
gb,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

The Orasure oral swab tests do NOT detect the hiv virus in saliva. They detect hiv antibodies that your own body produces in response to the presence of hiv virus in your bloodstream. Antibodies do not transmit hiv.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Coffeechick88

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: hiv in saliva and Orasure
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2006, 03:10:58 PM »
I am in the clinical lab and you just need to throw all speculation out the window when you look at routine lab work.  You cannot go by that and speculate whether you have HIV or not.  If you are worried, get the standard HIV antibody tests--ELISA with a western blot confirmation if positive.  The risk for HIV is actually small---it just isn't easily transmitted. You also have to look at the many cases of health care workers poking themselves with needles, surgical instruments, and all sorts of things versus the extremely small amount of those who actually get infected--usually those who get infected have a really substantial jab.  So in that case HIV is theoretical, but it is not even high risk and the odds are strongly in your favor for being negative.  Actually, to correct you--the risk from sex is actually much greater than a needle stick or infected object.  Of I were you, I'd be much more worried about Hepatitis.  Had you had your immunization to Hep B at the time of the possible incident?  Hepatitis C is especially worrisome.  Hepatitis is much, much more infectious in that type of exposure than HIV.  As Ann correctly said, you can be asymptomatic for years.  So don't waste your time looking at routine blood work.  Get the proper testing.

About the Orasure test your refer to, which can utilize saliva or blood from a finger prick or venous draw, that detects antibodies to HIV.  It is not an antigen detection test.  Antibodies are not infectious. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 03:13:11 PM by Coffeechick88 »
Lucas James is here
Born 6-14-08 at 1233 am
8 lbs 14 oz, 22 in long

Offline gb1

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: hiv in saliva and Orasure
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2006, 05:13:51 PM »
Ann, Cofeechick88, all ..  Thanks for the clarification.  ( and sory for the new post faux-pas ).   


 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.